Vicki and the Devil

I don't do Vicki Polin material any more, but I was sent this clip and had to share it with you. You decide whether or not to share it with the world. It's an obvious edit, which I'm not crazy about. The anonymous editor collected most of the snippets with Vicki in them, from a 1989 show that featured a long row of memory recovery types.

Missing from the clip is the psychologist, who appears in the transcript. I would have liked to see that. Also missing is the part where Oprah tells the folks at home that not all Jews eat their children, only the bad ones.

Here's the link. Enjoy. Below I've reprinted the transcript. The file is 7.5mb, and it's not being served up. It's slow, but not terribly so.

Vicki as Rachel on Oprah, May 1, 1989

OPRAH: As a child, my next guest was used also in worshipping the devil, participated in human sacrifice rituals and cannibalism. She says her family has been involved in rituals for generations. She is currently in extensive therapy, suffers from multiple personality disorder, meaning she's blocked out many of the terrifying and painful memories of her childhood. Meet "Rachel," who is also in disguise to protect her identity. You come from generations of ritualistic abuse?

"RACHEL", Was Used In Satan Worship Rituals: Yes, my family has an extensive family tree, and they keep track of who's been involved and who hasn't been involved, and it’s gone back to like 1700.

OPRAH: And so you were ritually abused.

"RACHEL": Right. I was born into a family that believes in this.

OPRAH: Does everyone else think it's a nice Jewish family? From the outside, you appear to be a nice Jewish girl?

"RACHEL": Definitely.

OPRAH: And you all are worshipping the devil inside the home?

"RACHEL": Right. There's other Jewish families across the country. It's not just my own family.

OPRAH: Really? And so who knows about it? Lots of people now.

"RACHEL": Well, I talked to a police detective in the Chicago area, and several of my friends know, and I've spoke publicly before, and…

OPRAH: So when you were brought up in this kind of evilness, did you just think it was normal?

"RACHEL': I blocked out a lot of the memories I had because of my multiple personality disorder, but, yes. I mean, it's like if you grow up with something, you think it’s normal. I always thought something…

OPRAH: So what kinds of things? You don't have to give us the gory details, but what kinds of things went on in the family?

"RACHEL": Well, there would be rituals in which babies would be sacrificed, and you would have to, you know…

OPRAH: Whose babies?

"RACHEL": There were people who bred babies in our family. No one would know about it. A lot of people were overweight, so you couldn't tell if they were pregnant or not, or they would supposedly go away for awhile and then come back…

"RACHEL": The other thing I want to point out not all Jewish people sacrifice babies. I mean, it's not a very typical thing.

OPRAH: I think we kind of know that.

"RACHEL": I just want to point that out.

OPRAH: This is the first time I heard of any Jewish people sacrificing babies, but anyway--so you witnessed the sacrifice.

"RACHEL": Right. When I was very young, I was forced to participate in that-- in which I had to sacrifice an infant.

OPRAH: And the purpose of sacrifice is to what? Is to bring you what? What are you sacrificing for?

"RACHEL": For power...

OPRAH: Power. And so were you ever used? Were you ever used yourself?

"RACHEL": I was molested. I was raped several times.

OPRAH: What's your mother doing in all of this? What's her role in all of this?

"RACHEL": What is-- I'm not exactly- -what her role is-- I haven't, you know, recovered all of my memories, but her family was extremely involved. You know, she brought me to it. Both of my parents brought me to it.

OPRAH: And where is she now?

"RACHEL": She lives in the Chicago metropolitan area. She's on the human relations commission of the town that she lives in, and she's an upstanding citizen. Nobody would suspect her. Nobody would suspect anybody involved in it. There's police officers involved in it. There's, you know, doctors, lawyers, Indiana chiefs involved in it.

OPRAH: Are you kidding?

"RACHEL": I mean, it's not the person, you know, who looks scummy that's involved in it. It's someone who looks normal.…

OPRAH: Were you raised with a sense of right and wrong, “Rachel?”

“RACHEL: Yes. I mean, it’s like we, I had both. I mean, to the outside world, everything we did was proper and right, and then there were the nights that things changed, that things just got turned around. What was wrong was right, and what was right was wrong. That’s what helps to create some of theto develop MPD.

OPRAH: Multiple personality disorder.

“RACHEL”: Right, right.

OPRAH: I know a lot of people are shaking their heads here, and I'm sure that when you go back home, I mean, everyone's going to try to make you look like you're crazy.

"RACHEL": Oh, definitely.

OPRAH: Absolutely.

"RACHEL": They do that all the time.

OPRAH: It's very difficult to believe, so how is it that you come to believe these people, Tina?

Ms. GROSSMAN: Well, I've treated over 40 survivors of ritual abuse. Adult patients with multiple personality disorder, and from many states in this country as well as Canada. What we've seen and heard and gone through in the abreactions which is the remembered experiences of that- we are hearing the identical same things from these adults. Okay. These are not children that are three years old, and you can, as an adult, perhaps rationalize that this is fantasy material. These adults are saying things. They have never met each other before. They are describing identical rituals, just the same as, since I'm Jewish, you could go to New York or California and describe a seder in one state or another and, as a Jew, you would recognize it. This is the belief system in evil and the power that evil gives you, and so it has these certain rituals, so they are very similar with all of the survivors.

OPRAH: See, but I am very surprised because the Jewish faith is the Jewish faith. and worshipping the devil is not a part of the Jewish faith. I mean, Jewish people do not worship the devil.

Ms. GROSSMAN: But before there was Christ and before there was a system of one God, there was Paganism- and it still exists in the world, and in many cultures, you still find the belief that there is strength and power in the actual consumption of human flesh or animals' flesh.

OPRAH: Now in your family. did you all call it worshipping the devil, "Rachel?”

"RACHEL": No.

OPRAH: Or did you…

"RACHEL": I don't know.

OPRAH: It was just evil. these things you did.

"RACHEL": It was-- right.

OPRAH: Right.

"RACHEL": Well, I said it was evil, and they said it was good. There's a book that I had just come across called [Lilith's Cave: Jewish Tales of the Supernatural by Howard Schwartz, New York, Oxford University Press, 1988] which is a book of Jewish mysticism and supernatural, and there's a lot in that book that relates to what I endured when I was a child.

OPRAH: I want to stop right here, though. because you know how people build prejudices. I want to make it very clear this is one Jewish person, so don't go around now saying to people, you know, "Those Jewish people, they're worshipping--'. This is just one person. Okay.

"RACHEL": Most Jewish people do not do what my family did.

OPRAH: Okay. Thank you very much.

"RACHEL": I mean, I don't know very many other Jewish people who would do what I did.

OPRAH: But you know how people hear one thing, and then go off and they say, "I heard on 'The Oprah Winfrey Show' today that…”