Facing
Bush’s Henchmen:
A Dialogue
with Jack Grimes
"A Fascist candidate for President will shake up the
driftwood and cause a few minds to get busy." - Jack
Grimes
by Mike Pursley
Jack
Grimes, Director and CEO of the United Fascist Union,
ran for President in 2000 and 2004. He is running
as a Fascist candidate again in 2008. As a fascist,
Grimes believes in a world state, a work point currency
system, and economic equality for all citizens. “Big
government can be your friend, provided it’s
a friendly big government,” he explains.
In December, I traveled to the United Fascist Union headquarters in Elkton, MD to meet with Grimes and his second in command Joanne Parker. Inside his living room are framed pictures of Grimes’ political heroes, Benito Mussolini and Saddam Hussein. An inverted pentagram adorns the walls. Grimes, dressed in a black uniform, black gloves, and inverted pentagram armband gave intense but articulate answers to my questions.
Our topics of discussion varied widely during the time we spoke, covering political theory, grandfather clocks, George W. Bush, Atlantis, and picnics. As our talk continued, it became apparent that despite his fascist label, Grimes is something of a utopianist seeking fairness and equality. Jack Grimes and Joanne Parker also proved to be polite hosts, offering me tea and cookies following the interview.
Pursley: To begin, I want a specific definition of fascism.
Grimes: Fascism is a radical form of socialism created by
a turn of the century Italian statesman, Benito Mussolini.
It’s also known as corporate statism, where the corporate
powers and the state cooperate and function as a corporation
to make a profit for the public.
What are the goals of the United Fascist Union?
To establish a new form of government in America based upon
the economic theories of Benito Mussolini and Saddam Hussein
and to create actual equality for all Americans. We believe
you can spout all the platitudes you want and pretty sayings
about racial equality, sexual equality, this kind of thing—but
it doesn’t mean one damn thing unless you create economic
equality. That’s why Bush and Clinton and all these
other rich men have the common people by the short hairs.
Because the common people are all living in bad little apartments
that are rat infested and roach infested and broken down;
yet, the wealth in this country is tied up by maybe 2-3%
of the people. These old money families; they’re all
the same mentality. You’ve got to break the system
down and you’ve got to create economic equality for
all people, and fascism is the tool to do that.
OK. Fascism often causes a negative knee-jerk reaction. Does it ever
prevent you from generating interest in your ideas?
Oh I think it generates a good deal of interest. All negative
interest. It’s becoming very hard to be a fascist,
especially with Bush and his rotten regime always talking
about “fascist this,” and “fascist that"—and
they attacked Iraq without provocation. The fascists did
no harm to anyone. Did you read my article in the latest
issue of Paranoia about Saddam Hussein? [issue 43]
About the H.G. Wells inspired space gun?
Yeah. I’m a great fan of Wells, if you haven’t
noticed. A good bit of my fascism comes from the British
fascism, which was from Sir Oswald Mosley and I believe to
a certain extent, although he never admitted it, H.G. Wells.
I’ve read a good many of Wells’ novels and I
do like him and I respect him.
So what aspects of life today would draw people toward
fascism? You’ve
talked a little about the economic side. Are there any others?
There's an idea I came up with called Universal Price Index,
which would regulate everything across the board and you
could use it to make America into one big roll back. I believe
a newspaper quoted me as saying, which I never said until
now. And by having Universal Price Index you could stop inflation,
you could hinder the rapid spiraling out-of-control of money
like it is in this country. A Universal Price Index would
mean that if apartments were $350 in Elkton they would be
the same in Baltimore, the same in Philly, the same everywhere
in the Northeast region. I believe this could be done but
it cannot be done under the capitalist economy because everything
in a capitalist country is to make a profit.
I have this apartment but I share with these two girls and
we each pay a portion of the rent. There’s no work
in Cecil County. The work is in Baltimore. And how much does
the average home go for here? Say this home across the street?
This lawyer? To be honest with you I’ve thought of
buying. I do not know if I’d want to buy in this country.
That’s part of the reason we’re renting. Because
I see the trends—the way it’s going in this country.
Smoking bans, all kinds of legislation that’s designed
to really screw the people, and I don’t think I’d
like to stay in this country if I could possible leave it.
Where would you like to go?
I’ve tried Canada. It seems to be following the same
pattern as this country though. I don’t know. I’ve
thought about South America, not seriously. But probably
short term if I could swing it, and I do have followers there,
would be Canada. At least I’d get away from Bush and
his henchmen. But like I’ve said, Canada seems to be
following the same program.
So, on your website one of your ideas to reform would be rules of public
conduct to correct flaws in modern society. Tell about some of your rules.
Okay, one of the rules we got a lot of comment about says
something about strict censorship of the press, and that
actually means like an FCC to regulate the newspapers and
make them play fair with the people. We used (the term) censorship
in the same sense as the Romans used it, but the American
people did not take it that way. But we were actually talking
about something like the FCC that would regulate things and
make the newspapers play fair with the people. This came
out largely because newspapers have never been fair with
me. I’ve been labeled as a Satanist, as a Nazi, as
whatever. And you have no recourse. When they say freedom
of speech they mean freedom of speech to do what they want
to you. To do what they want with anybody. And what I’d
like to see is an even playing field where the papers have
to play fair with you.
Moving to your presidential run, how is the 08 campaign going?
And a friend of mine wanted to know if you had a running
mate.
I would say it’s too soon to say how it’s going
at this time. You’re actually our first magazine interview.
We’ve done no radio or anything. We wouldn’t
expect to this soon. No, I have no running mate this time
as yet. It will probably be Miss Parker because Mr. Rios,
who was my running mate the last two times, is unavailable.
We’ve lost touch with him to be honest with you and
we don’t know where Eduardo Rios is if he’s interested.
So it probably will be that Miss Parker will be my running
mate. She is my real second in command anyway. She would
not be my running mate the last two times because she thought
it would hurt my chances of getting elected because of the
rampant sexism in this country. So we had Mr. Rios, who was
my third in command and legitimately entitled if she declined.
But like I said, he seems to have quit on us.
Looking around noticing the inverted pentagram and
with some other things that I’ve read about the UFU makes me wonder if there is a spiritual
side to what you’re doing here.
Satan, Saturn, was a Roman god, a Greco/Roman god. You see
this god often as Father Time on grandfather clocks today,
only nobody knows it. When the Britons were asking for a
god after Claudius I conquered England Claudius offered then
Saturn. They said Saturn was a Roman god and he meant nothing
to them but they would be glad to worship him in their own
barbarous tongue. The Romans were rather liberal and free
with their colonies, especially if they fought with honor
and became part of the empire. Claudius said they may have
a god in their own tongue. Saturn in English becomes Satan.
So people will say “This is the devil.” No. To
us it’s not a devil.
We don’t have a devil. We have a Greco/Roman god: Satan.
And as far as LaVey goes, Anton LaVey was a personal friend
of mine. I knew the man and I knew him well. He was not a
devil worshipper. He used the term Satan for his group, and
I don’t know why, for the same stupid reason Rockwell
called his group the American Nazi Party. Shock tactic. Anton
LaVey actually didn’t believe in anything.
Does that fit in with you as well?
Oh no. I believe in the old Olympian gods. I believe they’re
real. I believe in magic. I’ve practiced magic; what
you would call magic. I believe our whole life’s a
form of magic and I would be inclined to think that the Olympian
gods are more real than these Christian gods. And unlike
the Christians, we don’t have bigotry and hatred. We
don’t hate those people, but they’ve often said “We
hate you.” They’ll see our signs and call us
devil worshipers. We have nothing against those people. We
don’t worship the devil. The devil doesn’t even
exist in our cosmology. Thank god!
You’ve mentioned Mussolini and you’ve
mentioned ancient Rome, what are you more drawn to?
Now what drew me to Benito Mussolini and Saddam Hussein in
the first place was their talk about Babylon and Rome, because
I think the only way for man to advance into the future is
to go back into the distant past. I mean a physical revival
of the Roman Empire with Babylon, especially the mystic,
occult aspects of Babylon at its core, is the only way to
save humanity. We cannot go on with this “over the
cliff” capitalism and this rampant materialism.
So what we would like to do, and what attracted me to Benito
Mussolini and Saddam Hussein in the first place was their
talk of a Roman empire in ancient Babylon. We would like
to see America become the epicenter of a new Roman empire
with the mystery cults of Babylon as its spiritual center
because without a spiritual side, man is going to keep abusing
his fellow man. What do you think is going on in Iraq and
America now? Bush is doing this because with the biggest
stick and the biggest gun (you can) torture other men. And
this is because of the greed and materialism of the capitalist
economic system. You must change all this. The planet must
become one whole planet where all people are equal. You can’t
say, “I’ve got a bigger land mass than you so
I’m going to go over and take away what’s yours.” You
can’t say, “I’ve got atom bombs, so I’m
going to go steal your oil because I’ve got the power
to do it.” That’s bloody horrible and we cannot
go on this way. We’re going to annihilate ourselves.
So therefore, you need to change the way people think. I
think it would be important if we could create a new Roman
Empire on the North American continent, which would include
Mexico, Canada, and what we now call America. To make this
the epicenter of a world state where all the states of the
world state would be equal trading partners. There would
be an axis of trading partners. No one would have any more
weapons than anybody else. There would be no dominant factors.
And this would force the world together as one people. There
would be no more war. There’d be no more death camps.
There’d be no more terror, because you’re not
going to attack your brothers.
Christianity is the dry bones of winter, as Aleister Crowley
said. There is no hope of a spiritual salvation through the
Christian religion. A spiritual salvation will come to man
if we can turn the clock back to the time of the pagans and
the mystery cult of the Babylonians. Right after the fall
of Atlantis was the most perfectly developed religion of
all, from what I understand.
So what does a hard-working Fascist presidential candidate do to relax?
Oh, I watch the fishes. When it was nicer weather we’d
go on picnics quite a bit. We go by lighthouses and things.
I love the lighthouses. And that’s one thing, I’m
fortunate to live in the Chesapeake Bay area because there
are so many lighthouses.
So may the staff of Paranoia join you at
the White House in ‘08?
You probably would be (invited), because Paranoia is
one of my favorite magazines.
Continuing questions to Mr. Grimes in Town Hall meeting fashion:
Mr. Grimes, When you say the fascists did no harm to anyone,
which leaders or groups were you referring to? Was Adolf
Hitler a fascist? If not, why doesn't he fit your definition? -
Al, Providence, RI
Hello Al. Hitler was a Nazi. Hitler pretended to be a Fascist
to capitalize on Benito Mussolini's popularity when he started
the National Socialist German Workers' Party, but was NOT
a Fascist EVER! More like a Judas goat hung around Il Duce's
neck like a millstone with his anti-Semitic insanity. In
Fascist Italy under Benito Mussolini and in Iraq under Saddam
Hussein, the governments actually protected the Jews from
anti-Semitic elements. Fascists did not persecute anybody
because of race or religion, and the Nazi's did.
Mr. Grimes. Today's CEOs make several hundred times
the average worker's salary, even when their respective
companies are losing money. Since Fascism, according to
you, would embrace corporations and work with them on behalf
of the people, would you reign in the ridiculous compensation
packages of CEOs? Also, would you be willing to consider
some of the acts of corporate executives to be treasonous
and deserving of the death penalty? - Devin,
Providence, RI
Hello, Devin. The state itself should be run like a corporation,
to make a profit for the people. The masses should not be
shackled to a parasite power elite like they are today. Some
corporations, like Halliburton, clearly commit treason. I
would have the lot of them crucified.
Mr. Grimes, You say that you would support the formation
of a regulatory body that would have carte blanch censorship
authority over America's news media. You also said that
this idea came about through your personal experience in
being mislabeled as, among other onerous things, a Nazi.
Could you please tell us exactly what the difference is
between the two, other than the obvious fact that the Nazis
were an organized (and nattily attired) political party?
In short, what is your take on each of these two symbiotic
philosophies? - Mark, Cumberland, RI
Hello, Mark: The Nazi and the Fascist are not symbiotic philosophies;
far from it! The Fascists had no racial programs. In Italy
and in Iraq, Benito Mussolini and Saddam Hussein actually
welcomed Jews and gave them full religious freedom. Mussolini
was trying to warn the world about the threat Adolf Hitler
posed in the 1930's, and was forced into an axis with the
Germans because the Western democracies ignored his warning.
As to your comments about censorship, we were referring to
a regulatory body like the FCC to govern newspapers and magazines,
which would force them to play fair with the common people.
Censoring the print media: You should understand why we need
a regulatory body to force the multi-national media to play
fair with the common people. The PEOPLE have rights; it's
high time someone represented the masses' interests.
Jack Grimes' Statement of Candidacy
It is my intention to run for President in the election
to be held in November 2008, because I believe we need more
political movements in this country which should be every
spectrum of the rainbow. I see not only a need for new grass
roots movements in this country, but also for the average
man to step into the political arena and take an active role
in government.
A Fascist candidate for President will shake up the driftwood
and cause a few minds to get busy. We must break the two-party
monopoly in conventional politics in this country if we are
to preserve the American people's Freedom of Choice. We must
create new political movements that the masses can polarize
around if we are to keep the general public interested in
politics; of those, surely one can be Fascist.
We must end the reign of terror of the capitalist elite,
which has driven the middle-class to the brink of extinction
and holds the poor down to a loathsome level where they are
no better than medieval serfs. Corporate Statism, an economic
system under which government and corporate interests cooperate
with each other for the betterment and general welfare of
the nation, whereby government makes a profit for the
people instead of exploiting them, is the perfect antidote
to capitalism.
To correct the flaws in modern society the United Fascist
Union recommends: Halting the monopolies on utilities; imposing
a strict censorship on the press; halting urban sprawl; and
enacting rules of public conduct which police would rigidly
enforce. P
Jack Grimes is Director and CEO of
the United Fascist Union, P.O. Box 2209, Elkton, MD 21922.
He ran for president in 2000 and 2004, and is a candidate
in 2008. You can read Mr. Grimes’ Statement of Candidacy
for the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election, as well as a FAQ
sheet for the United Fascist Union, at http://joanne21921.tripod.com.
His office may be contacted at United Fascist Union Campaign,
P.O.Box 2209, Elkton, MD 21922. It takes 2,500 signatures
from registered voters, verified by the Federal Election
Commission, to begin the process for candidates to run
for the office of United States President.
Links to sites about Jack Grimes:
Official Jack Grimes site: http://joanne21921.tripod.com/
http://www.politics1.com/ind04.htm
http://media.www.iowastatedaily.com/media/storage/paper818/news/2004/02/04/News/Strange.Hopefuls-1098576.shtml
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