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<DATE>2014-10-06</DATE>
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<NAME>Mona Logarbo</NAME>
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<HEAD>A REPLY to a Printed Paper Entituled, <HI>A brief Account of the Evidence given on behalf of</HI> Edmond Warner, <HI>at a Trial at the Bar the</HI> 24th. <HI>of</HI> November 1693, &amp;c. Occa&s;ioned by &s;ome fal&s;e Reflections in the &s;aid Paper upon the Evidence given for the KING at the &s;aid Trial, wherein that they might gain the greater Credit, the Author had the a&s;|&s;urance to <HI>Challenge any One to detect him of the lea&s;t Fal&s;hood therein.</HI></HEAD>
<P N="1">1. TO the fir&s;t Paragraph, being the Evidence of <HI>William Riddall,</HI> Steward to the &s;aid Mr. <HI>War|ner;</HI> That <HI>all bu<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> time of Service, the Earth in que&s;tion was &s;old to Potters, except &s;ome &s;mall quantities &s;old in the Neighbourhood for daubing of Hou&s;es,</HI> &amp;c. It's mo&s;t certain he gave the &s;ame account at the Tryal; and it is as true, the &s;aid Earth, upon the lea&s;t water coming to it, de&s;olves (if dried) in the &s;ame manner as all other Fullers Earth doth, as has been proved be|fore and by many Members of the Honourable Hou&s;e of Commons: Therefore it cannot <HI>bo alledged as a good argument, that the &s;aid Clay is not of the Nature of Fullers Earth,</HI> and after its being once dri|ed by the Sun, will not prove <HI>The be&s;t Clay Wall in England;</HI> but being <HI>Of the Nature of Fullers Earth, upon the fir&s;t wet Weather</HI> will <HI>fall to the ground;</HI> nor will the &s;trength of this Gentleman's Te&s;timony be able to &s;upport it.</P>
<P>That it was formerly &s;eized (as he &s;ays) and after di&s;charged, may be true, it not being con|&s;i&s;tent with every Officer in the Out Ports, to expend Three or Four Hundred Pounds to ju&s;tifie him|&s;elf in the Execution of his Duty.</P>
<P N="2">2. To the Second Contents: What was depo&s;ed by divers Pot-makers in and about <HI>London,</HI> That <HI>Fullers Earth all the art of Man can never make a Pot of,</HI> &amp;c. Is not denied (intirely of its &s;elf, with|out mixture with other Earths) no better than the <HI>Pots, Cups,</HI> &amp;c. produced by the &s;aid Pot-makers at the fir&s;t Tryal, and &s;worn <HI>To be made by them perfectly and intirely of Mr.</HI> Warners <HI>Earth,</HI> which when tried in Court, by being filled with Water, ran through in all parts thereof, before they could be handed to the Barons; and when broke in pieces, moldred as Chalk, and by the Court declared a Cheat. The&s;e Gentlemen upon a cro&s;s Examination, confe&s;&s;ed they <HI>u&s;ed in their common Working other Clays in making their Pets, mix'd with Mr.</HI> Warner<HI>'s Earth.</HI> However, to accomodate their Evi|dence to the Occa&s;ion, they were then intirely made of the Earth, in que&s;tion, although imperfectly, yet better to &s;erve the purpo&s;e; and if the fallacy had not been di&s;covered, it might have proved more &s;erviceable; this ill-luck made them decline any more proofs of their Skill at the &s;econd Trial, contenting them&s;elves to give their Evidence without Demon&s;tration.</P>
<P N="3">3. The Third, being the Evidence of <HI>Benjamin Furly</HI> and <HI>John Sonman</HI> his Servant of <HI>Rotterdam, That all the Earth con&s;igned by Mr.</HI> Warner <HI>to the &s;aid</HI> Furly, <HI>was &s;eld to Pottets, and of the great plenty of Fullers Earth in</HI> Holland, <HI>with the meanne&s;s of the Value.</HI> The&s;e by their Depo&s;itions farther De|po&s;e, be&s;ides what is thought fit to be recited in the before-mentioned Paper, <HI>That there are al&s;o di|vers other Merchants in that City re&s;iding, that have there Imperted the &s;aid Mr.</HI> Warner<HI>'s Earth;</HI> but what u&s;e that may have been put to, they find convenient to conceal. It's certain, they were omit|ted and not examined by Vertue of the &s;aid Commi&s;&s;ion. It may be agreed, that any Fullers Earth to be procured in tho&s;e Parts, by the meanne&s;s of its quality <HI>(not plenty)</HI> is not worth above the One fourth part of that Imported into tho&s;e Countries from <HI>England.</HI></P>
<P N="4 5">4. and 5. To the Fourth and Fifth, The&s;e, except the Mea&s;urers, are as is &s;aid Pot and Platter-makers, who in their Depo&s;itions give account, <HI>Of their buying and u&s;ing the &s;aid Earth of Mr.</HI> Warner; <HI>with the great value of it more than the Fullers Earth in tho&s;e Countries.</HI> And although they are <HI>Dutch</HI> Peo|ple, and live in the &s;everal parts of that Country, yet they all &s;peak good <HI>Engli&s;h</HI> on this occa&s;ion, and jump &s;o wonderfully in their Opinion, that all their Depo&s;itions agree almo&s;t <HI>Verbatim,</HI> had they been all taught to &s;ay one thing they were very apt to repeat &s;o nicely. It happens there is
<PB N="2" REF="3">not above Thirteen of them &s;aid to be examined, although if they had been made Thirty, they might have pa&s;&s;ed as well, their Depo&s;itions being taken in di&s;tinct pieces of Parchment not joyn|ed together, and but one of tho&s;e appears &s;igned as &s;worn to by the Commi&s;&s;ioners; However it will be difficult to reconcile all the&s;e Depo&s;itions with the Evidence of <HI>Henry Dewilde,</HI> a <HI>Dutch</HI> Pot and Platter-maker living near the City of <HI>London,</HI> and one of the Witne&s;&s;es of Mr. <HI>Warner</HI> mentioned in the afore&s;aid Paper, who upon his Examination, &s;aid, <HI>That there is no occa&s;ion for the Earth of Mr.</HI> Warner <HI>in</HI> Holland, <HI>there having been liberty for Importation of Potters Clay to tho&s;e Parts for Two Years la&s;t pa&s;t from</HI> French-Flanders, <HI>whereby the Earth of Mr.</HI> Warner <HI>is not worth the Freight of carrying to</HI> Rotterdam <HI>for the u&s;e of the &s;aid Pot and Platter-makers.</HI> Either this is not true, or more than he &s;hould have &s;aid, otherwi&s;e the Three Ships with the &s;aid Earth de&s;igned lately to be Exported by Mr. <HI>Warner,</HI> mu&s;t not have been for the u&s;e of Pot-making, as is pre|tended.</P>
<P N="6">6. To the Sixth, That relates to the Evidence, which an Honourable Member of Parliament was plea&s;ed to give at the Trial, as it was at the reque&s;t of Mr. <HI>Furly,</HI> the Agent or Factor of Mr. <HI>Warner</HI> in <HI>Holland;</HI> he gave him&s;elf the trouble of that enquiry, &s;o undoubtedly it was according to the account he received from <HI>Myn Heer Antonio,</HI> as Interpreted, <HI>between him and a Dutch|man.</HI></P>
<P N="7">7. The Seventh, being the Te&s;timony of a Divine, who was plea&s;ed to let the Court know, That <HI>he was in the Kings Service, and being in</HI> Holland, <HI>read a Letter from Mr.</HI> Warner, <HI>intreating his a&s;&s;i&s;tance, and inquiry about the Earth in Que&s;tion; that pur&s;uant thereto, be undertook the trouble of Travelling to mo&s;t of the Cities of that Countrey that related to the Clothing Trade, and after that to the mo&s;t con&s;i<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">erable places for Pot-making,</HI> and took all this pains (as he declared upon Oath) <HI>with de|&s;ign to have di&s;covered the u&s;e of the Earth of Mr.</HI> Warner <HI>in the Fulling of Cloth, thereby to have &s;erved his King and Countrey.</HI></P>
<P>If this Gentleman had &s;tumbled on any place where the Earth in di&s;pute had been u&s;ed as Ful|lers Earth, how unfortunate had Mr. <HI>Warner</HI> been in giving him that trouble; but &s;ince it proved otherwi&s;e, it was well u&s;ed as an Argument for the veracity of his Evidence.</P>
<P N="8 9">8 and 9. The Eight and Ninth are divers Ma&s;ters of Ships and &s;everal Buyers and Sellers of Ful|lers Earth, being <HI>Salters</HI> by Trade; the&s;e &s;wore, That <HI>Mr.</HI> Warners <HI>Earth was not Fullers Earth, nor like the Earth bought by them, that they never dealt but in one &s;ort, and that the &s;aid Earth of Mr.</HI> Warner <HI>would not melt, nor draw, or &s;uck up Water, nor take the Grea&s;e out of Boards, as other Fullers Earth doth, &amp;c.</HI> It may be pre&s;umed the&s;e Per&s;ons are &s;o knowing in their Trade, as to be &s;en&s;ible the Fullers Earth they &s;ell, when new taken out of the Pit and wet, as that of Mr. <HI>Warners</HI> was (which lay four days &s;unk in the Lighter Two and a half Foot under Water) would be the &s;ame; had they dried it (as they ought) their Evidence mu&s;t have been wanting. Its known to all men that are acquainted with the nature and u&s;e of Fullers Earth, what care and long preparation is u&s;ed in the drying thereof, before it is fit to be u&s;ed in the Fulling of Cloth; but notwith&s;tanding the&s;e Per&s;ons have had the Courage upon Oath to Affirm all this, yet this very Earth of Mr. <HI>Warners,</HI> now in the Kings Ware-hou&s;e, doth melt, and draw, or &s;uck up Water, and take the Grea&s;e out in the &s;ame manner as all other Fullers Earth; all which may with more confidence be a&s;&s;erted, having been Experimented in all the&s;e qualities by divers Members of the Hou&s;e of Commons them&s;elves.</P>
<P>It may al&s;o be ob&s;erved. That one of the&s;e <HI>Salters</HI> before-mentioned, when this Earth was fir&s;t &s;u&s;pected to be for other u&s;e then in making of Pots, was by the Officers of the Cu&s;toms de&s;ired to give his Opinion thereof, and then an&s;wered them, it was good Fullers Earth, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> upon who&s;e Judgment they put the fir&s;t &s;top to it, what Arguments have &s;ince prevailed with him to change his Opinion do not appear.</P>
<P N="10">10. To the Tenth, being Clothiers, Baymen, Fullers and Millmen, the&s;e were very different in the giving their Evidence, tho&s;e from <HI>Worce&s;ter</HI> did not pretend it would not &s;cowre the Grea&s;e out of the Cloth, <HI>But that the Cloth, Fulled not after &s;o well as with their own Earth, Yet one of tho&s;e mo&s;t eminent Clothiers,</HI> which gave his Te&s;timony on behalf of Mr. <HI>Warner,</HI> at the Trial, and mentioned by him in his Paper, hath thought fit &s;ince to be a Petitioner, with the Corporation of that <HI>City,</HI> to the Honourable the Hou&s;e of Commons, to prevent the Exportation of the &s;aid Earth. For the <HI>Gloce&s;ter</HI> Clothiers, they acknowledged <HI>never to have prepard the Earth of Mr.</HI> Warner <HI>by drying, but u&s;ed it in the Condition they received it from the</HI> Cu&s;tom-Hou&s;e, when no Fuller can have the confidence to affirm it can have its effect. For the <HI>E<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;ex</HI> and <HI>Suffolk</HI> evidence, they indeed were po&s;itive, Swearing, <HI>it was &s;o far from having any thing
<PB N="3" REF="3">of the nature of Fullers Earth or Scowring faculties, that it f<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters">ed the Grea&s;e &s;o in the Grounds of all the Cloths, that no Fullers Earth in</HI> England <HI>can fetch it out.</HI> It &s;eems then the <HI>Worce&s;ter</HI> and <HI>Gloce&s;ter</HI> Clothiers were better Workmen, altho not &s;o good Evidencers. All the&s;e People upon cro&s;s Examination confe&s;&s;ed, <HI>Mr.</HI> Warner <HI>contracted with them before hand to an&s;wer the damage any one &s;hould have by &s;poiling their Cloth in the Experiment, which were to be produced in his behalf, as Evidence at the Trial:</HI> Yet its remarkable they at the &s;aid Trial Varni&s;hed their Evidences with a Declaration, that <HI>they made all the&s;e Experiments, with a de&s;ign to have made it Fullers Earth if they could.</HI> If that were true, 'twas very ungrateful to detect their Friend at his own expence.</P>
<P>For the reflection made by Mr. <HI>Warner</HI> at the latter end of this Paper, <HI>That his Adver&s;aries</HI> (meaning the Officers of the Cu&s;toms) <HI>made their Witne&s;&s;es to affirm the &s;aid</HI> Warners <HI>Clay, was tried in all Experi|ments without any mixture, there was not above one or two, but upon Cro&s;s Examination at the Trial, owned they u&s;ed Segg and Hogs dung or Soape and Gauls with it, which</HI> (as he &s;ays) <HI>would have &s;ecured any Cloths bet|ter without the &s;aid Clay then with it.</HI></P>
<P>This in the whole is &s;o notoriou&s;ly fal&s;e, that it mu&s;t have required much confidence to a&s;&s;ert, and the Trial being then intirely taken; well atte&s;ted and ready to be produced, may be ea&s;ily detected; be&s;ides that this is untrue, is apparent by the Examinations of the &s;ame Per&s;ons, among divers others, upon the 19th. of this pre&s;ent <HI>January</HI> 1693, before a Committee of the Honourable the Hou&s;e of Commons, on this Occa&s;ion, to which the truth of all this is mo&s;t humbly referred.</P>
<P>For his conclu&s;ion, <HI>That it may not be ami&s;s to ob&s;erve, that in a whole year,</HI> &amp;c. <HI>he had not been able to &s;ell the lea&s;t quantity of his Clay as Fullers Earth, the he has proferr'd it to all men for a very little more then one Third of what Fullers Earth is generally &s;old for.</HI> The Clothiers of <HI>Worce&s;ter,</HI> did before and &s;ince the Printing of that Paper, offer to give Mr. <HI>Warner</HI> 20 Shillings <HI>per</HI> Ton for his Earth, being the &s;ame Price they pay for the Fullers Earth of <HI>Surrey,</HI> for a certain quantity, and what they &s;hould have occa&s;ion for. But had Mr. <HI>Warner</HI> made any &s;uch Pargain during the <HI>pre&s;ent</HI> inquiry, he mu&s;t have brought not only his di&s;cretion but Sen&s;es into que&s;tion.</P>
<P>It has been mo&s;t indu&s;triou&s;ly &s;pread abroad by Mr. <HI>Warner,</HI> as a reflection upon the Officers, <HI>That they would have been bargaining with him for a piece of money, and then he had been at liberty to Export the &s;aid Earth.</HI> This, con&s;idering the tru&s;t that is committed to them in the Execution of their Offices, more &s;en&s;i|bly concerns them then any other con&s;equence in this affair: And being obliged to ju&s;tifie them&s;elves, they affirm it utterly fal&s;e and mo&s;t malicious, and as frivolous as untrue, de&s;igned only to impo&s;e upon the unwary; it not being in the power of the &s;aid Officers, at any time to have made &s;uch agreement, all tho&s;e Informations relating to the Earth in que&s;tion, being entered in the Exchequer, and the Com|mi&s;&s;ioners of the Cu&s;toms acquainted with it, before ever Mr. <HI>Warner</HI> appeared on that Occa&s;ion.</P>
<P>For the Penalties of Three Shilling <HI>per</HI> Pound, which the Law has given the Moiety of to the Officers, they have aboundant proof beyound exception, that in compa&s;&s;ion to Mr. <HI>Warner,</HI> provided he Export no more of the &s;aid Earth, they from the fir&s;t e&s;tered to con&s;ent to a Licence from the Court, or as the Barons &s;hould direct, and before the &s;econd Tryal, they by the Attorney General in Court, wholely declined all the Forfeitures; that if a Verdict &s;hould have been given for the King, it might appear they &s;ought not their Intere&s;t, but Service of the Nation, in Endeavouring to prevent &s;o great a mi&s;chief, as the Law hath declared the Exportation of Fullers Earth, to be, and to avoid them&s;elves the heavy Pe|nalties tho&s;e Laws have charged them with (as Felony, <HI>&amp;c.</HI>) if they &s;hould have been found <HI>Con&s;enting</HI> to the Exportation of the &s;aid Mr. <HI>Warner</HI>'s Earth, when by the Judgement of almo&s;t 100 Clothiers and Fullers in the Counties and Shires of <HI>Gloce&s;ter, Wilts, Semer&s;et, Worce&s;ter, Berks, Surrey and E&s;&s;ex,</HI> who had them&s;elves, or &s;ome of them, appointed by the re&s;t of each County and Shire, taken the &s;aid Earth out of the Kings Ware-Hou&s;e, and having Experimented the &s;ame in the Scowring and Fulling of many Cloths, declared the &s;aid Earth to be good Fullers Earth, doing all the Offices thereof; and at the &s;ame time Mr. <HI>Warner</HI> always declining (as he did at the late hearing before the Committee) the proof of a Joynt Experiment.</P>
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