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<DATE>2014-12-01</DATE>
<RESPSTMT>
<NAME>Kate Allen</NAME>
<RESP>MURP</RESP>
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<ITEM>Checklist: x *Add TEMPHEAD, change DATE, validate x*Review over structure: FRONT,BODY, BACK, DIV or rarely GROUP x*Add DIV TYPEs, make sure that types makes sense as a navigational aide, and work in the context of the whole text, validate x*Survey book for troublesome formats of all kinds, including lists, illustrations, tables, music, math, end-notes, quasi-tabular arrangments, and marginalia. x*Proof title page(s) x*Examine marginalia. Is it all best tagged as NOTE? x*Observe divtop and divbottom material marking beginnings and ends of divisions, check that they are correctly tagged as HEAD, HEADNOTE, CLOSER, OPENER, ARGUMENT, EPIGRAPH, SIGNED, DATELINE, BYLINE, TRAILER, etc. x*Check for GAPs x*Check PB placement and completeness, ensure sequence of N="" x*Check ^, oe, abq, italic I / J, _Initals, space between &amp;c., --, # x*Check for illustrations and correct usage of FIGURE. Add FIGDESCs if necessary. x*Check q, startq, endq, Q
*Correct excusable and inexcusable errors x*If appropriate, check for yoghs. x*If appropriate, check for Latin problems, e.g. oe and ae digraphs x*If appropriate, check for abbreviation and brevigraph problems. x*If appropriate, check for units of measure, symbols (alchemical, astronomical, etc.) and the like. x*Correct illegibles from proofsheet x*Check illegible page, para, line, span, word, dollar signs
*Final validate Corrected [ ] illegible groups out of [ ]. Converted [ ] illegible groups to GAP DESC="illegible". DONE</ITEM>
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<IDG S="marc" R="UM" ID="B27985">
<STC T="W">P1323</STC>
<BIBNO T="umi">99825015</BIBNO>
<VID>207411</VID>
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<TEXT LANG="eng">
<FRONT>
<DIV1 TYPE="title page">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<P> MORE WORK FOR <HI>George Keith;</HI> BEING GEORGE KEITH's Vindication of the People Called QUAKERS As well in his Part of the Di&s;pute held at <HI>Wheelers-Street</HI> the <HI>16th</HI> Day of the <HI>8th Month,</HI> 1674. As in his Treati&s;e again&s;t <HI>Thomas Hicks,</HI> and other <HI>Baptists,</HI> with the re&s;t of their Confederate Brethren at the <HI>Barbican</HI> Di&s;pute, held at <HI>London</HI> the <HI>28th</HI> of the <HI>6th Month,</HI> 1674.</P>
<P><HI>LONDON:</HI> Printed and Sold by <HI>T. Sowle</HI> near the <HI>Meeting-Hou&s;e</HI> in <HI>VVhite-Hart-Court</HI> in <HI>Gracious-&s;treet.</HI> 1696.</P>
<PB REF="2">
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="to the reader">
<PB REF="2">
<HEAD>THE PREFACE.</HEAD>
<OPENER><SALUTE>READER,</SALUTE></OPENER>
<P>I Here pre&s;ent thee with <HI>George Keith</HI>'s <HI>Vindication</HI> of the People called <HI>Quakers,</HI> and Him&s;elf, again&s;t the <HI>Abu&s;es</HI> and <HI>Forge|ries</HI> (as he calls them) of <HI>T. Hicks,</HI> and other <HI>Bapti&s;ts,</HI> which is not to revive Old Contro|&s;ies, but to &s;how <HI>G. K.</HI> to him&s;elf <HI>and</HI> the <HI>World:</HI> By all which thou wilt find,</P>
<P N="1">1. That <HI>G. Keith</HI> did then profe&s;s him|&s;elf a <HI>Quaker.</HI></P>
<P N="2">2. That he Defended us as one with us, again&s;t the Clamours and unju&s;t dealings of the <HI>Bapti&s;ts.</HI> Which con&s;i&s;ted in a mi&s;-re|pre&s;entation of our Faith to the World; <HI>As if we did not believe in</HI> Je&s;us Chri&s;t <HI>as born of the</HI> Virgin Mary, <HI>his Death, Suffer|ings, Re&s;urrection, and Mediation; and de|nyed the Divine Authority of the</HI> Scriptures of Truth; <HI>and the Re&s;urrection of the Dead to Rewards and Puni&s;hments.</HI></P>
<P N="3">3. That he came among&s;t us <HI>upon a Di|vine Call, and the Work of Gods Spirit; that he felt Life to his Soul in obeying it, and Gods pre|&s;ence with him, in defending of us, as his People.</HI> Thus far the following Treati&s;e &s;hews.</P>
<P N="4">4. <HI>G. Keith</HI> after all this, hath had Sto|mach <HI>Rank enough</HI> to lick up even <HI>T. Hicks</HI>
<PB REF="3"> Vomit, and <HI>Wrath enough</HI> to Spew it out at his <HI>Quondam</HI> Friends, &s;aying the &s;ame things of us, that <HI>T. H.</HI> and other Bapti&s;ts did; Terming us <HI>Antichri&s;tians, Sadduces, &amp; Hereticks of the deepe&s;t dye. Such as no Chri|&s;tian Country would tolerate. Wor&s;e then Pope|ry, and which the Papists them&s;elves are bet|ter Chri&s;tians then to own or &s;uffer:</HI> Calling up|on <HI>Church</HI> and <HI>State, Conformi&s;ts</HI> and <HI>Di&s;&s;en|ters,</HI> whom once he e&s;teemed <HI>Incompetent</HI> Judges of us and Religion (for he owned none for Mini&s;ters or Chri&s;tians, but tho&s;e that were &s;o made and Commi&s;&s;ioned by the Immediate Workings and Motions of the Spirit of God, which they deny) to <HI>read</HI> us, <HI>remark</HI> us, and <HI>write</HI> again&s;t us, and to <HI>follow</HI> our Meetings clo&s;ely, with Di&s;puta|tions to Confound us. For it &s;eems nothing el&s;e but a <HI>total Subver&s;ion</HI> of us, as a People, can appea&s;e the rage of this angry Man. It is plain he <HI>threatens</HI> our <HI>Books,</HI> if not us, with a <HI>Judicial</HI> Sentence, perhaps the Fire; for his Words have <HI>Smoak,</HI> if not <HI>Coals</HI> in them: See his Narrative of the Meeting at <HI>Turners-Hall;</HI> and e&s;pecially a new piece &s;ince Publi&s;hed, called <HI>Antichri&s;ts, and Sad|duces Detected.</HI> 'Tis well for us the Law, <HI>de Haeretico Comburendo,</HI> is repealed; El&s;e I fear, the Spirit that Acts this poor Man, if it had as much Credit as Bitterne&s;s,
<PB REF="3"> would quickly <HI>try</HI> the Experiment, and enact us to <HI>Smith-Field.</HI> But what is a&s;toni&s;hing, and as incredible as Tran&s;ub&s;tantiation, <HI>G. K.</HI> for all this will have it that <HI>he is by no means altered,</HI> and at the &s;ame time finds fault with us, for being the &s;ame we were when he was &s;o much in Love with us. If he be the &s;ame he was, and we are the &s;ame we were, why do we di&s;agree? Why are we not one, as once we were? Is there any <HI>difference</HI> between being <HI>One,</HI> &amp; be|ing the <HI>&s;ame?</HI> Yet <HI>We,</HI> that he &s;ays are both of us the <HI>&s;ame</HI> we were, are not, it &s;eems of the &s;ame mind we were, but as oppo&s;ite as <HI>Light</HI> and <HI>Darkne&s;s, Truth</HI> and <HI>Error, Christ</HI> and <HI>Antichri&s;t; for then we were his Beloved, his be&s;t Friends, and mo&s;t dear Brethren; Ble&s;&s;ing God for the Knowledge of his way we profe&s;&s;ed, and the Fellow&s;hip he had therein with us.</HI> Then we were <HI>&s;ound, and the People of God, and true Chri&s;tians;</HI> and our Adver&s;aries <HI>&V;nju&s;t</HI> in their Charges again&s;t us. He writ for us, di&s;puted for us; and made it an argument, why he &s;hould be believed again&s;t them, be|cau&s;e he knew us better, and what we held, and had writ, than they did; as he tells <HI>Cotten Mather,</HI> and the <HI>New England Clergy;</HI> and in our behalf, and in defence of our writings (his pre&s;ent, <HI>pretended,</HI> &s;tumbling-block)
<PB REF="4"> as well as our profe&s;&s;ion, he Challen|ges, Oppo&s;es, and Expo&s;es them as Zealous|ly as he u&s;ed to do Twenty Years ago, and this was but Four Years &s;ince, in his Book he writ again&s;t them; yet now we are <HI>An|tichri&s;ts, Sadduces and the wor&s;t of Hereticks.</HI> And how Pray, did all this wonderful change come about? Who has better Informed him? How came he convinced? Why he has late|ly read our Books, and weighed them better then he had done. But Reader, is this <HI>Credi|ble,</HI> of &s;o Learned a Man, &s;o ancient a Profe&s;|&s;or, and a Mini&s;ter too, of our way? What! To be a <HI>Member</HI> of a <HI>Church,</HI> near 30 Years and a Teacher in it, who&s;e Doctrines he did not know, till his re&s;entment of the di&s;&s;atisfa|ction of &s;ome of the People called <HI>Quakers,</HI> in <HI>America,</HI> with his <HI>uncooth Phra&s;es and Jewi&s;h Fables,</HI> fir&s;t opened his Eyes; <HI>the common Door</HI> at which mo&s;t <HI>Apo&s;tates,</HI> in all Ages, have turned out from the Communion of the true Chri&s;tian Society. Well! But if we are changed, whatever he be, he allows us to be better, that is, <HI>more Orthodox now than we were:</HI> We have mended a little then, and he would have us in management to compleat the Work. But if we are more <HI>Orthodox,</HI> he ought then to be nearer us, &amp; we better trea|ted; and yet alas, he was never further from us, nor <HI>more envious</HI> to us, than now.</P>
<PB REF="4">
<P> But poor man, he would not be thought to be Changed, though he but too plain|ly and loudly proves he is not the &s;ame he was; yet we mu&s;t be what we were, or he lo&s;es the advantage he thinks he has upon us, for it is with our older Books he findeth the mo&s;t fault. A &s;evere <HI>Dilemma!</HI> But Alas, who can help it? Can his <HI>Philo&s;ophy,</HI> at this dead lift, di&s;-entangle him from this difficulty? Surely not. His <HI>Spirit</HI> is al|tered, his <HI>apprehen&s;ions</HI> of our Principle are changed, both as to the <HI>Extent</HI> and <HI>Efficacy</HI> of it; and his <HI>Sentiments</HI> of us are altered. In vain then does he &s;ay he is the <HI>&s;ame G. K. he was,</HI> when with us; he is no more that <HI>G. K.</HI> than he is <HI>G. Whitehead,</HI> or <HI>W. Penn,</HI> or <HI>T. El|wood,</HI> he once e&s;teemed and embraced, and now inveighs again&s;t; tho' perhaps he is but too much, what he repre&s;ents them to be. After all this, <HI>Bragg</HI> of him that will, <HI>Boast</HI> of him that plea&s;e; Tho&s;e that love Chari|ty, <HI>Truth,</HI> and <HI>Impartiallity</HI> at any rate, can never think him a mighty <HI>Purcha&s;e:</HI> If yet he be any body's, or can <HI>Stick</HI> at any <HI>Mark,</HI> or indeed be his <HI>own</HI> Man. A Per&s;on without Judgment, with all his Learning; without Temper in his Conver&s;e, and with|out Stability in his Religion. To conclude, his <HI>Pa&s;&s;ion</HI> and <HI>Re&s;entment,</HI> have over|&s;et him;
<PB REF="5"> and of a Friend, made him an open Enemy; and He that was always &s;o, has embrac'd this opportunity, and Improves it again&s;t us; and throws this <HI>Bomb</HI> among us, to blow us up, now he can <HI>hunt</HI> us no <HI>longer</HI> with his <HI>Hiltons</HI> and his <HI>Collingwoods, tho&s;e No|torious Informers;</HI> and that his other le&s;&s;er Tools, lately employed by him, have &s;pent their <HI>Ammunition,</HI> and are &s;unk in their <HI>Stock</HI> and <HI>Credit;</HI> As will this noi&s;y froward De|&s;erter in a little time, after all his threats and charges. I heartily wi&s;h th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="2 letters"> any thing may provoke him to <HI>Repentance;</HI> for what I write, is for his <HI>Correction,</HI> and not for his <HI>De&s;tructi|on.</HI> And one would think, if not hope, that beholding him&s;elf well what he was, whence fallen, and why and how; and con&s;idering his former Enjoymnets, when in fellow&s;hip with us, and his pre&s;ent vexation, and di&s;appointment; having at la&s;t few, if any <HI>Pro&s;elites from among us.</HI> with the di&s;mal pro|&s;pect of the Con&s;equence of &s;o fearful a <HI>Lap&s;e</HI> at la&s;t, as to the other World, might work &s;ome Remor&s;e and Contrition upon him, before it be too late. Which I heartily wi&s;h he may find, to the glory of <HI>Gods Grace,</HI> the recovery and happine&s;s of his own poor Soul, and the comfort of his <HI>Wounded and Sor|rowful</HI> Friends; that &s;tand much readier, af|ter
<PB REF="5"> all his evil entreatment of them, to for|give, than retaliate or upbraid, his <HI>Grievous</HI> and <HI>Provoking Back&s;lidings.</HI></P>
<P>Now Reader, I leave thee: Peru&s;e, with Care, Temper and Ju&s;tice, what fol|lows, and then Judge if <HI>G. K.</HI> be a Competent Per&s;on to be received by any a|gain&s;t us, or that we ought to be the wor&s;e thought of, for his Invectives who does but <HI>Actum Agere,</HI> do the &s;ame thing over again for he gives no new Di&s;covery, what he does, is no more then what has been done to his Hand, by our common Enemies, and again&s;t which he hath &s;o often Engaged in our common defence.</P>
<PB REF="6">
</DIV1>
</FRONT>
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="debate">
<PB N="1" REF="6">
<HEADNOTE>
<P><HI>See Brief</HI> Narrative, <HI>of the Meeting as</HI> Wheelers-Street, <HI>&amp;c. Publi&s;hed by</HI> W. Mead, <HI>and others, Printed</HI> 1674. <HI>begin|ning at</HI> Page 46.</P>
</HEADNOTE>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>VV. <HI>Penn,</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>Let us come to the Mat|ter; I offer this to <HI>Jeremiah Ives;</HI> I will &s;tand to all that <HI>T. H.</HI> hath in&s;tanced out of our Books, and prove him a <HI>Forger</HI> concerning them. Here hath been much Di&s;cour&s;e be&s;ide the End of our Meeting; and this, I &s;ay, is the Matter of our Meeting, to prove <HI>T. H.</HI> guilty of <HI>For|gery,</HI> and if thou <HI>J. I.</HI> does per&s;onate <HI>T. H.</HI> let me go on, and I will prove thee a <HI>Forger;</HI> let me go on, and I will prove thee a <HI>Forger;</HI> read the Charge.</P>
<STAGE>[The People with one voice cry, Read the Charge.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>T. P.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>R. T. We will have no Charge read.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>Let <HI>T. Plant</HI> him&s;elf read the Charge.</P>
<STAGE>[The <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> renew their Noi&s;e.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>My friendly Auditors, the Matter is, whether we are <HI>Chri&s;tians</HI> or not; <HI>T. H.</HI> &s;aith no, we are not, and he will prove it out of our Books: I charge him with <HI>Forgery</HI> there|in, and am ready to prove it, ere I go out of this Place; Is not this fair?</P>
<STAGE>[The People generally cry out, <HI>This is fair, this is fair.]</HI></STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>If you do not intend to proceed
<PB N="2" REF="7"> upon the Charge as it is here, but <HI>T. H.</HI> mu&s;t do it, let him come where we &s;hall agree to meet, and let our Charge be read, and indiffe|rent Per&s;ons <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">ear what we have to &s;ay, and &s;o let it be Publi&s;hed to the World.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>T. Plant,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>The</HI> Quakers <HI>are offended that</HI> T. H. <HI>hath &s;o writ; we begun upon the fir&s;t Article of the Charge at</HI> Barbican; <HI>we come hither this day upo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> the defence of that Article,</HI> Hicks <HI>oppo&s;ing the</HI> Ch<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">i&s;tian <HI>to the</HI> Quaker; <HI>and therefore, becau&s;e the Doctrines you hold are incon&s;i&s;tent with</HI> Chri|&s;tian <HI>Religion; we come to prove you no</HI> Chri&s;tians; <HI>but a<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> to the particular Charge,</HI> T. H. <HI>him&s;elf mu&s;t be concerned in it; therefore there mu&s;t be &s;uch a Meeting; for if he &s;h<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">uld &s;peak as much as we do here, he might be quite &s;pent or kill'd: So for a&s;much as you do not con&s;ent to the Di&s;cour&s;e as offered, to prove a</HI> Quaker <HI>no</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>we will appoint &s;uch a Meeting as you &s;ay, and then let it be Printed to the World.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>T. Hicks</HI> hath writ &s;uch things, I grant, I come to prove him a <HI>Forger</HI> therein, and that he is no <HI>Chri&s;tian:</HI> Will not this an|&s;wer to every ones Expectation and Under&s;tan|ding? He &s;aith, <HI>C<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">r<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;tian</HI> &s;o, <HI>Quaker</HI> &s;o: Wilt thou prove it <HI>T. H.</HI> &s;ay we? <HI>Yea,</HI> &s;aith he, <HI>I will <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">et b<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">te you one Word,</HI> as he &s;aid before: So then t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">e Per&s;on grieved is the <HI>Quaker;</HI> here is the <HI>G<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">ie<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">an<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">e,</HI> that <HI>T. H.</HI> has <HI>Forged</HI> things under <HI>Our Name;</HI> we call upon the <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> to hear us: If <HI>T. H.</HI> had Lungs and Voic<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> enough <HI>a<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> Barbican,</HI> &s;urely he might have been one of <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="2 letters">ur here; but &s;eeing he has declined to appear, we do con&s;ent to &s;uch a Meeting, to hear the
<PB N="3" REF="7"> Debate, and when it is heard, before an Audi|tory agreed on, being taken by Writers, that it go forth to the World.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I would have added, as we met by Con|&s;ent at fir&s;t, &s;o let us meet by Con&s;ent again, that you may not be incumbred with Propo&s;itions at the next Meeting; &s;o will ye refer the Matter to &s;uch a Meeting? And will ye now clo&s;ely fall to hearing the Proof, that ye are no</HI> Chri&s;tians?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>Hath <HI>J. Ives</HI> Lungs enough now to go upon that, and not upon our Charge as it ly|eth?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>There is &s;ome things in that which I can|not manage; that which I can manage is, that you are No</HI> Chri&s;tians, <HI>and that I will manage again&s;t you.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>If <HI>J. I.</HI> will debate all here, let us begin; if n<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="2 letters"> all here, then why any here? Is this to proceed methodically? Nay, but it of|fers Violence to the Order agreed upon.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am well &s;atisfied to enter into that De|bate, to prove you No</HI> Chri&s;tians.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>We are not afraid to meet with thee, nor to give an Account of our Faith and Belief in our Lord Je&s;us Chri&s;t, That he was born of the Virgin <HI>Mary,</HI> that he preached a Heavenly Do|ctrine, confirmed it by many Miracles, was cru|cified and ro&s;e again, and a&s;cended into Glory, and is God over all, ble&s;&s;ed for ever. But if all mu&s;t not be debated here, for which we do ar|raign them, and have exhibited our Charge, which they refu&s;e (&s;o much as to have read) we might very ju&s;tly refu&s;e to an&s;wer to them in this Matter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="4" REF="8">
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P>W. Penn <HI>hath made a Confe&s;&s;ion of his Faith; I will prove that what he hath &s;aid is Equi|vocation, and that you are no</HI> Chri&s;tians; <HI>but what you &s;ay is rather to accommodate your Party to the</HI> Vulgar: <HI>I do &s;ay, the</HI> Quakers <HI>are No</HI> Chri&s;ti|ans; <HI>but what they &s;ay is Equivocation: I am here now to prove you no</HI> Chri&s;tians; <HI>if you will not con|&s;ent to that, we will break up the Meeting.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>Well, let him then.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Welch,</SPEAKER>
<P>Take notice, this is a Conde&s;cen|&s;ion on our Part: The Charge on our part was to prove <HI>T. H.</HI> a <HI>Forger;</HI> this I &s;ay, is a Con|de&s;cen&s;ion.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>It is no Conde&s;cen&s;ion.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>It is a receding from the Matter, therefore a Conde&s;cen&s;ion; but go on <HI>Jeremy,</HI> and do thy utmo&s;t Strength; we &s;hall an&s;wer thee.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I &s;ay, it is no Conde&s;cen&s;ion, that tho&s;e that are charg'd to be no</HI> Chri&s;tians, <HI>to hear them|&s;elves proved &s;o. If</HI> W. P. <HI>be no</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>then all that he hath &s;aid concerning Chri&s;t is Equivocati|on: But</HI> W. P. <HI>is no</HI> Chri&s;tian; <HI>Therefore,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
<STAGE>[Here the <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> made merry among them|&s;elves.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>Although, according to the Method of Di&s;pute, we are not obliged to hear thy Proofs, until fir&s;t our Proof be heard again&s;t <HI>T. H.</HI> that he is a <HI>Forger</HI> (we being the fir&s;t plan|tiffs) yet we will conde&s;cend to lear <HI>J. I.</HI> his Proofs in this Matter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P>W. Penn <HI>is my Adver&s;ary, not that</HI> Gentleman; <HI>I charge</HI> W. P. <HI>with Equivocation.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I do not interpo&s;e, as being diffi|dent
<PB N="5" REF="8"> in <HI>W. P. for I believe he is able enough</HI> to an&s;wer thee; but I &s;ympathize with him, be|cau&s;e of his Bodily Strength.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>If <HI>T. Plant, R. Taylor,</HI> and the Man that hath his <HI>Two Rea&s;ons</HI> yet behind, have had Liberty to &s;peak one after another, I think I may have the Liberty to let another &s;peak &s;ometimes for me.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>My Name is in all the Articles of Agreement concerning tho&s;e Meetings, and am <HI>abu&s;ed as well as W. P.</HI> &s;o I may well, being a fre&s;h Man, and having Regard to his Bodily Strength, be admitted to &s;peak in this Matter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Will you then undertake it?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea, I am ready to undertake it, and by the Lord's A&s;&s;i&s;tance to debate it with thee for a Pair of Hours.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How &s;ay you? for a Pair of Hours? Yea, yea, &s;ix if ye will. Speak out, my Hearing is not good; and you being a Stranger, I cannot well un|der&s;tand your Dialect.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;hall repeat <HI>J. I</HI>'s Argument: <HI>If</HI> W. P. <HI>be no</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>he is an Equivocator: But he is no</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>therefore he is an Equivocator.</HI> I deny <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Then</HI> G. K. <HI>not only allowed</HI> W. Penn, <HI>but the</HI> Quakers, <HI>to be Chri&s;tians, and as &s;uch adheared to them, ap|peared with them, and defended them; they are not changed, then</HI> G. Keith <HI>mu&s;t be changed, &s;ince now he calls them</HI> Hereticks, Antichri&s;ts <HI>and</HI> Sadduces; <HI>if &s;o, an Apo&s;tate from them, and a Changeling to other Sentiments.</HI></NOTE> both his Propo&s;itions of his <HI>Argument:</HI> Let him prove the Con&s;equence of his fir&s;t Pro|po&s;ition; that is, <HI>That if he be no</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>then an</HI> Equi|vocator.</P>
<PB N="6" REF="9">
<P> &mdash;Ru&s;&s;el, <HI>That Man &s;peaks &s;o</HI> Scotti&s;h, <HI>that we cannot well under&s;tand him.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>Though my Voice is &s;mall, yet it is clear and di&s;tinct: And I being a Stranger, not of the <HI>Engli&s;h</HI> Nation, but of another Nation, ye &s;hould be more civil to me, as a <HI>Stranger:</HI> I hope I &s;hall &s;peak intelligibly.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You have done well; Have you done like a Schollar? like a Di&s;putant?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>Shew me wherein I erred or failed.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You have not repeated my Argument right: My Argument was founded upon</HI> W. P's Con|fe&s;&s;ion <HI>of his</HI> Faith, <HI>that he believed, that</HI> Je&s;us Chri&s;t is God and Man, <HI>and that</HI> he dyed for Sins. <HI>My Argument is this; If</HI> W. P. <HI>be No</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>then all he hath &s;aid is Equivocation: But</HI> W. P. <HI>is no</HI> Chri&s;tian; Ergo.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I deny both his Propo&s;itions.</P>
<STAGE>[Here <HI>J. Ives</HI> &s;tirred up the People to Light|ne&s;s, that <HI>G. K.</HI> thereby was interrupted.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Do you under&s;tand the Propo&s;itions?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;uppo&s;e I do, but I &s;hall repeat them before the Auditory, that ye may know I under&s;tand them: Thy Argument is thus: <HI>If</HI> W. P. <HI>be no</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>then he is an Equivocator: But</HI> W. P. <HI>is no</HI> Chri&s;tian; <HI>therefore he is an E|quivocator.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>That was not my Argument.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I under&s;tood it &s;o, to be the &s;ame upon the Matter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>My Argument was this; If</HI> W. P. <HI>be no</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>then all his Confe&s;&s;ions of Chri&s;t are Equivocations: But</HI> W. P. <HI>is no</HI> Chri&s;tian; <HI>there|fore,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="7" REF="9">
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>Well, the Argument is the &s;ame upon the Matter, as I &s;aid before: I deny both the Propo&s;itions.</P>
<STAGE>[Here <HI>J. I.</HI> &s;tirred up again to Laughter, as if <HI>G. K.</HI> had given &s;ome ridiculous or unlaw|ful An&s;wer.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I de&s;ire to be heard, and I &s;hall &s;how, that my An&s;wer is Lawful and Orderly, according to the Method of Di&s;pute; for <HI>Ar|guments</HI> have <HI>two Propo&s;itions</HI> and a <HI>Conclu&s;ion;</HI> Now the <HI>Conclu&s;ion</HI> follows always the weaker <HI>Propo&s;ition;</HI> and &s;o if one of the <HI>Propo&s;itions</HI> be fal&s;e, the <HI>Conclu&s;ion</HI> is fal&s;e: But &s;ometimes both the <HI>Propo&s;itions</HI> are fal&s;e, as in this Ca&s;e; though I had denyed only his <HI>&s;econd Propo&s;ition,</HI> it might &s;uffice; yet the <HI>fir&s;t Propo&s;ition</HI> being fal&s;e, I al&s;o deny it; for it implies that all who are not <HI>Chri&s;tians</HI> are <HI>Equivocators,</HI> which is fal&s;e, for a man, from a true Conviction may confe&s;s both to the <HI>Divinity</HI> and <HI>Manhood of Chri&s;t,</HI> and yet not be converted to be a <HI>true Chri&s;tian,</HI> and <HI>this Confe&s;&s;ion</HI> of his is <HI>no Equi|vocation.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I &s;peak not in general, but in particular of</HI> W. P.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>But the <HI>Propo&s;ition</HI> is founded up|on the <HI>General,</HI> and &s;o if it hold not in the <HI>Ge|neral,</HI> it doth not hold in the <HI>Particular</HI> of W. P.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Will you lay the Stre&s;s upon the Denyal of the fir&s;t Propo&s;ition?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>Not the <HI>whole,</HI> but a <HI>part</HI> of it.</P>
<STAGE><HI>[J. Ives</HI> again &s;tirred up to Lightne&s;s.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I de&s;ire to be heard peaceably, I
<PB N="8" REF="10"> am a Stranger that liveth about four hundred Miles off this place; ye ought to be more <HI>Civil</HI> to me, that I am a <HI>Stranger,</HI> of another <HI>Nati|on;</HI> not &s;eek to oppre&s;s me, becau&s;e I am of little Stature: I ought to be heard without In|terruption; for I have &s;tay'd about this Month, waiting on this Occa&s;ion. I &s;ay, I lay not the whole Stre&s;s upon the <HI>Denyal of the fir&s;t Propo|&s;ition,</HI> but a <HI>part</HI> of it; for the <HI>Conclu&s;ion</HI> leaneth not in whole upon one <HI>Propo&s;ition,</HI> but on both.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I prove the Con&s;equence of the fir&s;t Pro|po&s;ition: He who confe&s;&s;eth what he denyeth, his Confe&s;&s;ions are Equivocations; But</HI> W. P. <HI>confe&s;|&s;eth what he denyeth,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;hall repeat the <HI>Argument,</HI> that ye may know if I have heard it aright: <HI>He who confe&s;&s;eth what he denyes in his Heart, his Confe&s;|&s;ions are Equivocations; But</HI> W. P. <HI>confe&s;&s;eth what he denieth in his Heart,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You repeat my Argument wrong; I did not &s;ay, what he denyeth in his Heart, but what he denyeth.</HI></P>
<STAGE><HI>[Reader,</HI> Take notice, <HI>J. Ives</HI> denies that he &s;aid, <HI>W. P. denyeth in his Heart what he confe&s;|&s;ed;</HI> So it is but a <HI>Verbal Denyal,</HI> that <HI>J. Ives</HI> doth alledge.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>Well, I deny the <HI>&s;econd Propo&s;ition,</HI> to wit, <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Here</HI> G. Keith, <HI>thou cleare&s;t</HI> W. P. <HI>of E|quivocation, and with him the People called</HI> Quakers, <HI>for</HI> J. Ives <HI>oppo&s;ed the People in the Name and Per&s;on of</HI> W. P. <HI>yet now thou wilt have them deceitful and in&s;incere in what they &s;ay as to Chri&s;tianity; who can think thou wert Sincere then, and not In&s;incere now? But more of this anon.</HI></NOTE> <HI>That</HI> W. P. <HI>confe&s;&s;eth what he denyeth.</HI></P>
<STAGE><PB N="9" REF="10">
[Note, <HI>Reader,</HI> That becau&s;e I did not com|monly u&s;e the Terms <HI>Major</HI> and <HI>Minor,</HI> J. Ives laugh'd and &s;tirr'd up the People to Laughter: Whereto I replied, <HI>That I waved the Terms,</HI> Ma|jor <HI>and</HI> Minor, <HI>for the &s;ake of the Vulgar,</HI> becau&s;e they were not &s;o ea&s;ie to be under&s;tood, as <HI>fir&s;t</HI> and <HI>&s;econd Propo&s;ition.]</HI></STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I prove that</HI> W. P. <HI>confe&s;&s;eth what he denyeth: If</HI> W. P. <HI>denyeth Je&s;us Chri&s;t, he con|fe&s;&s;eth what he denyeth; But</HI> W. P. <HI>denyeth Je|&s;us Chri&s;t,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I deny the <HI>&s;e|cond</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>If</HI> W. P. <HI>did then be|lieve in Je&s;us Chri&s;t, as thou maintained&s;t; Pray when did he fall from that Faith? Would&s;t thou defend what was not true? Who then &s;hould care, what thou &s;ay&s;t again&s;t him? And if true, of what value is thy pre&s;ent Clamour?</HI></NOTE> <HI>Propo&s;ition,</HI> viz. <HI>That</HI> W. P. <HI>denyeth Je&s;us Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I prove it thus: He who hath no Rule of his Faith and Practice, denyeth Je&s;us Chri&s;t: But</HI> W. P. <HI>hath no Rule of his Faith and Practice; Therefore,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I deny again <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>If</HI> W. P. <HI>amd the People called</HI> Qua|kers <HI>under that Name had not only</HI> true Faith <HI>in Chri&s;t, but al&s;o a</HI> Right Rule <HI>for their Faith, what more is requi&s;ite for a true Chri&s;tian? And if true Chri&s;tians, how are they now</HI> Hereticks, An|tichri&s;ts <HI>and</HI> Sadduces? <HI>This &s;hows thy fall, and not thou their Error.</HI></NOTE> the <HI>&s;econd Propo&s;ition,</HI> viz. <HI>That</HI> W. P. <HI>hath no Rule for his Faith and Practice.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I prove the &s;econd Propo&s;ition: If</HI> W. P. <HI>have any Rule for his Faith and Practice, it mu&s;t either be immediate In&s;piration, or the Scrip|ture: But</HI> W. P. <HI>hath neither immediate In&s;pi|ration</HI>
<PB N="10" REF="11"> <HI>nor the Scripture for his Rule of Faith and Practice; therefore,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I deny the &s;econd Propo&s;ition; for he hath both, <HI>viz. immediate In&s;piration,</HI> as the <HI>primary Rule; and the Scripture as the &s;econdary.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I prove he hath not</HI> immediate In&s;pira|tion. <HI>He who hath</HI> immediate In&s;piration <HI>for his Rule, mu&s;t give an Evidence of it in his Mini&s;try unto others, that he is a true Mini&s;ter of Chri&s;t, &s;uch as no Impo&s;tor can give: But</HI> W. Penn <HI>can give no Evidence of it in his Mini&s;try unto others, that he is a true Mini&s;ter; therefore,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. K.</SPEAKER>
<P>Here <HI>J. I.</HI> thou do&s;t tran&s;gre&s;s the ju&s;t Laws of Di&s;pute, by an Error called in the Schools. <GAP DESC="foreign">, that is to &s;ay, A Tran&s;ition from one kind of Matter to another: For fir&s;t, thou did&s;t undertake to prove, that <HI>W. P.</HI> was no <HI>Chri&s;tian,</HI> and now thou under|take&s;t to prove him to be no <HI>Mini&s;ter;</HI> he may be a true <HI>Ch<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">i&s;ti<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">n,</HI> and yet not a <HI>Mini&s;ter,</HI> &s;o as to be able in words to mini&s;ter to others; for the&s;e two, <HI>Ch<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">i&s;tian</HI> and <HI>Mini&s;ter,</HI> are not reci|procal T<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">rms: Every true <HI>Mini&s;ter</HI> is a <HI>Chri&s;tian;</HI> but every true <HI>Chri&s;tian</HI> is not a <HI>Mini&s;ter.</HI></P>
<STAGE>[Here again <HI>J. I</HI> with <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="2 letters">e <HI>Baptists</HI> his Con|federates &s;tirred up to laugh<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">er.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Kei<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">h,</SPEAKER>
<P>I de&s;ire to be heard: To defend <HI>W. P.</HI> to <NOTE PLACE="marg">W. P. <HI>is again a Chri&s;tian, and becau&s;e</HI> G. K. <HI>beli<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">ved him &s;o, he &s;o def<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">nded him; but now denies him to be a Chri&s;tian, and vile|ly entreats him for be|ing the &s;ame M<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">n. Is this a Character to</HI> G. K<HI>'s Honour?</HI></NOTE> be a Mini&s;ter, is not my pre|&s;ent Task, <HI>but to be a</HI> Chri|&s;tian, that is the pre&s;ent Mat|ter in hand; when this is di&s;cu&s;&s;ed, I &s;hall not decline the other; therefore <HI>J. I.</HI> is unrea&s;onab<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">e to go from the Matt<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">r of the Di&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">u<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">e to another Matter.</P>
<PB N="11" REF="11">
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. I.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am content to leave out the Term Mini&s;ter.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I de&s;ire the Auditory to take notice of this Advantage again&s;t <HI>J. Ives,</HI> how he pa&s;|&s;eth from his la&s;t Argument; let us hear his next.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>He who hath immediate In&s;piration for his Rule, mu&s;t have an Evidence, whereby to di|&s;tingui&s;h it from an Impo&s;ture; but</HI> W. Penn <HI>hath no Evidence, whereby to di&s;tingui&s;h it from an Im|po&s;ture; therefore,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I deny the &s;econd Propo&s;ition.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>He hath no Evidence, becau&s;e be can &s;how no Evidence, &s;o as to make it appear; for ye know the Maxim, Of that which appeareth not, and of that which is not, is the &s;ame Rea&s;on.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>He hath no Evidence, becau&s;e he can &s;hew no Evidence, I deny the Con&s;equence; for a Man may have an Evidence of a thing which he cannot &s;how; and as to that Maxim, <HI>De non apparentibus, et non&punc;exi&s;tentibus eadem e&s;t ratio,</HI> it holdeth not true Univer&s;ally; but is fal&s;e in many Ca&s;es; as it doth not appear to me, whe|ther the <HI>Dutch</HI> or <HI>French</HI> have had the Victory in the la&s;t War, mu&s;t I therefore conclude, that none of them had it?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>It is true, the Maxim holdeth not in all Ca&s;es, but in this it holdeth; for if</HI> W. Penn <HI>have any Evidence that he hath immediate In&s;piration, he ought to give a Proof of it to others: Let</HI> W. P. <HI>prove him&s;elf to be a</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>otherwi&s;e we are no<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> bound to believe him.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>We do not impo&s;e upon you to be|lieve that we are <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> but recommend it to every Man's Con&s;cience in the &s;ight of God,
<PB N="10" REF="12">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="11" REF="12">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="12" REF="13"> <HI>as he &s;hall witne&s;s for us;</HI> b<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> that is not our pre&s;ent Wor<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Is</HI> G. K. <HI>con&s;i&s;tent with him&s;elf now? will he allow</HI> W. <HI>P. and his Friends the &s;ame Latitude now, that they may be Cbri&s;tians from the Witne&s;s in them&s;elves? Than no nece&s;&s;ity for any of his new Modelled Creeds to Evidence the<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> Chri&s;tianity; then he and the</HI> Bapti&s;ts <HI>are &s;till at the &s;a<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> odds about the Evidence of Chri&s;tianity; then the</HI> Quake<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> <HI>are Chri&s;tians; for all the</HI> Bapti&s;ts <HI>clamours.</HI></NOTE> to prove our &s;elves to<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 span"> <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> but to an&s;wer<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 span"> <HI>I.</HI> his Argument, where<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> he undertook to prove th<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> we are no <HI>Chri&s;tians.</HI></P>
<STAGE>[Here <HI>G. Whitehead</HI> offered to &s;peak, but the<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> would not &s;uffer him, alledging, that it wa<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> agreed upon, that the Di&s;pute &s;hould only b<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> betwixt <HI>J. I.</HI> and <HI>G. K.]</HI></STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;aid, I was willing by God's A&s;|&s;i&s;tance to undertake it; and &s;o I am ready &s;till&punc; <HI>finding the Lord pre&s;ent with me;</HI> but I did not engage, that none others &s;hould &s;peak what they had <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Was</HI> GOD's PRE|SENCE <HI>with thee in defending of</HI> W. <HI>P. and the People called</HI> Quakers, <HI>again&s;t the clamorous Charge of the</HI> Bapti&s;ts, <HI>and yet</HI> W. P. <HI>&amp;c. are An|tichri&s;ts for holding the very &s;ame things they then held: Either thou lyed&s;t in the Name of the Lord, or thou art fallen from that Pre&s;ence. Would the most Ju&s;t and Wi&s;e God vouch&s;afe his Pre&s;ence to encourage a bad Cau&s;e? Or would the Holy One &s;o much as wink at De|ceit? What do&s;t thou make of God? But, O what, ha&s;t thou made of thy &s;elf! Either thou had&s;t no Savour and Di|&s;cerning of God's Pre&s;ence, or thou had&s;t. If thou had&s;t not, thy Pre&s;umption and Bla&s;phemy is very great. If thou had&s;t, thy Judgment now must be very fal&s;e, for the Cau&s;e and People are the &s;ame. The Lord over-rule thy Pa&s;&s;ion, qualifie thy Rage, humble thy Mind, and tender thy Heart, and by Con|trition restore thee, if it be his Ble&s;&s;ed Will.</HI></NOTE> upon them by any pre&s;&s;ing nece&s;&s;ity, nor did any others engage to any &s;uch thing; but &s;eeing ye will not &s;uffer others to &s;peak, I an&s;wer the &s;ame with what <HI>G. W.</HI> hath &s;aid, that <HI>J. I.</HI> goeth again from his Matter, which was to prove <HI>W. P.</HI> to be no <HI>Chri&s;tian;</HI> and in&s;tead of proving that, he putteth me to prove that <HI>W. P.</HI> is a <HI>Chri&s;tian,</HI> or that we are <HI>Chri&s;tians.</HI> Are all his Proofs come to this <HI>Beggarly Shift?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="13" REF="13">
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>If ye can give no Evidence of it, ye are no</HI> Chri&s;tians.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>What Evidence would&s;t thou have? <HI>Mu&s;t I</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>What thou &s;aid&s;t then for us again&s;t the</HI> Bapti&s;ts, <HI>we &s;ay now again&s;t thee and them that abet thee. They that are gone from the Spirit or deny it, and profe&s;s Chri&s;t in their natural and prejudiced E&s;tate, being Stran|gers to the Operations of it, or Rebellious a|gainst it, and Quenchers of it, are no Compe|tent Judges of the Truth of our Chri&s;tia|nity, for it is hid from them, and that Eye with which they &s;ee and judge, never did nor can &s;ee and judge of Spiritual things.</HI></NOTE> <HI>be no</HI> Chri&s;tian, <HI>becau&s;e I can|not expre&s;s my inward Senti|ment, to natural and prejudiced Men? We can at lea&s;t give as good Evidence, that we are</HI> Chri&s;tians, <HI>as</HI> J. Ives, <HI>or a|ny</HI> Bapti&s;ts <HI>on Earth can give, that they are</HI> Chri&s;tians; if by <HI>Evidence</HI> he means a <HI>Li<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">e</HI> and <HI>Practice,</HI> an&s;werable to <HI>Chri&s;tianity.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am glad, that at lea&s;t, ye will paral|lel <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="2 letters"> with you.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="14" REF="14">
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I <HI>&s;peak mode&s;t<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"></HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Do we</HI> George, <HI>&s;tand at lea&s;t upon e|qual terms with the</HI> Bapti&s;ts, <HI>as to Evi|dence of our being Chri&s;tians? how cam'&s;t thou then to App<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">al to the</HI> Bapti&s;ts <HI>now, a|mong other parts, a|gain&s;t us now as He|reticks, Antichri&s;ts, and Sadduces? Nay, thou do&s;t as good as tell the</HI> Bapti&s;ts, <HI>that we can give greater, but what is become of it, I cannot tell, and am heartily &s;orry thou ha&s;t lo&s;t thine of being an humble, loving, hone&s;t, and tender-hearted</HI> Quaker.</NOTE> we &s;tand, <HI>at lea&s;t upon eq<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> ground with you,</HI> as to <HI>E<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters">+dence:</HI> I &s;ay, we can give<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 span"> <HI>good Evidence;</HI> I do not &s;a<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> <HI>we cannot give greater:</HI><GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 span"> you require another outwar<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> <HI>Evidence,</HI> than a <HI>good Life o<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> Practice,</HI> as namely, <HI>eith<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> Miracles,</HI> or a <HI>verbal Demon+&s;tration,</HI> then it will follow<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> <HI>that no dumb Man can be a Chri+&s;tian,</HI> becau&s;e he can give n<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="right margin cropped or obscured" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1+ letters"> <HI>Evidence</HI> of it by <HI>verbal De+mon&s;tration.</HI></P>
<STAGE>[Here <HI>W. P.</HI> as having a &s;tronger Voice, be|gan to repeat my Argument, giving the In&s;tance of a <HI>dumb Man.]</HI></STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I &s;peak nothing of a dumb Man; why do you alledge this?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>I do not &s;ay, thou did&s;t alledge it; for it was not to thy Advantage; but I alledged it, as making again&s;t thee.</P>
<STAGE>[Here &s;ome <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> denyed that <HI>G. K.</HI> alled|ged the In&s;tance of a <HI>dumb Man;</HI> but many of the Auditory that &s;tood near him affirmed, they heard him give the In&s;tance.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But 'tis well known</HI> W. P. <HI>is not a dumb Man: I &s;peak not of</HI> Infants <HI>or</HI> dumb Men.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>But if a dumb Man, who can give no <HI>verbal Demon&s;tration,</HI> may be a <HI>Chri&s;tian;</HI> it
<PB N="15" REF="14"> followeth, that others may be <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> who can't <HI>verbally</HI> demon&s;trate it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I &s;peak of Things, not of Per&s;ons; I require you to give one Evidence of your Faith and Practice.</HI></P>
<STAGE>[Here <HI>T. Plant</HI> repeated this Di&s;tinction of <HI>J. I.</HI> that he &s;pake <HI>of Things, not Per&s;ons;</HI> it &s;eems the Man admired it, as a very <HI>Learned Di&s;tinction.]</HI></STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>Thou do&s;t vainly Di&s;tingui&s;h; for thou &s;peak'&s;t both of Per&s;ons and Things: Are not <HI>W. P.</HI> and <HI>G. K.</HI> Per&s;ons? Now thou re|quire&s;t us <HI>(to wit) W. P.</HI> and <HI>G. K.</HI> to give an Evidence of our Faith and Practice, to prove our &s;elves to be <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> which is not our pre|&s;ent work to do, as is already &s;hewed; <HI>and it is &s;ufficient that we have the</HI> Witne&s;s <HI>in our &s;elves,</HI> as the Scripture &s;aith, <HI>He that believeth, hath the Witne&s;s in him&s;elf.</HI> And Friends, and all People here pre&s;ent, I have one thing more of great weight to &s;ignifie unto you, and that is, to tell you, That although the <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> do fal&s;ly accu&s;e us, as deriving our <HI>Pedigree</HI> from the <HI>Je&s;uits,</HI> yet it may appear <HI>how near a-kin</HI> they are to the <HI>Je&s;uits,</HI> &s;eeing I can produce a <HI>Je&s;uit</HI> who hath u&s;ed the very &s;ame <HI>Argument</HI> upon the Matter, again&s;t all the <HI>Prote&s;tants,</HI> which the <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> have this day made u&s;e of again&s;t us: The <HI>Je|&s;uit</HI> is one <HI>Demp&s;ter,</HI> his Argument and the whole Pro&s;ecution of it, together with the An|&s;wers thereunto by one, called a <HI>Prote&s;tant Mini&s;ter, J. M.</HI> is in Print, the Title of the Book is <HI>Bapti&s;mus Lucifugus. See, People, how the</HI>
<PB N="16" REF="15"> <HI>whole</HI> Prote&s;tant Cau&s;e <HI>lieth at the Stake; in the Defence</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">WE, WITH ALL TRUE PROTE|STANTS, <HI>are con|cerned; &s;hews we were then</HI> George, <HI>not more</HI> Papi&s;ts <HI>than thy &s;elf; how comes it I pray thee now, that we mu&s;t be le&s;s Pro|te&s;tants than we were? Do we hold now, what we denyed then? Or do&s;t not thou</HI> George, <HI>deny now, what thou held&s;t then? At least, thou looke&s;t upon us with another Eye, an Evil Eye, and like the Jaundies, it gives a fal&s;e repre&s;entation of Objects. This is thy Ca&s;e, thy Malady; and Repentance mu&s;t be thy Cure, or thy Ca&s;e is de&s;perate, and irretrievable.</HI></NOTE> <HI>whereof</HI> we, with all true <HI>Pro|te&s;tants,</HI> are concerned again&s;t the <HI>Je&s;uits</HI> and <HI>Bap<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">i&s;ts,</HI> to their own Overthrow, who take up the <HI>Papi&s;ts</HI> Argu|ments again&s;t them&s;elves.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Give me an Evidence how I may know that you have immediate Revelation for your Faith and Practice, from Heaven or from Hell.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>That is not my Task at pre&s;ent; I do not impo&s;e it upon thee &s;o to b<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">lieve.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Ives,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Then we have done, not a word more.</HI></P>
<STAGE><HI>[G. Keith</HI> offered farther to proceed.]</STAGE>
<STAGE>[J. Ives <HI>refu&s;ed.]</HI></STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>W. Penn,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then let me take up the Argument with <HI>T. Plant</HI> or <HI>Rob. Taylor.</HI></P>
<STAGE>[They refu&s;ed.]</STAGE>
<STAGE><HI>[G&punc; Keith</HI> offered to proceed with <HI>J. Ives</HI> thus.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>He is not a</HI> Jew <HI>that is one outward|ly&punc; but he is a</HI> Jew <HI>that is one</HI> inwardly: I offer to prove my &s;elf, by as good Arguments, that I am a <HI>Chri&s;tian,</HI> as the be&s;t <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> in the World can produce.</P>
<STAGE><HI>[J. Ives</HI> would not hear, but refu&s;ed to re|a&s;&s;ume the Argument.] </STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="17" REF="15">
<SPEAKER>W. Penn:</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>J. Ives, T. Plant, R. Taylor,</HI> What mean you by this <HI>Eva&s;ive Carriage?</HI> Is this the Enter|tainment we receive from you after our Conde|&s;cention to your Importunities? <HI>Fir&s;t,</HI> You de|clined our <HI>Charge: Next,</HI> Though you pretend to prove us <HI>No Chri&s;tians,</HI> you now clamour at us, <HI>to prove our &s;elves Chri&s;tians;</HI> and becau&s;e we tell you it is not our part at this time, &s;ince you undertook <HI>to prove us None,</HI> you &s;et your Company a Bawling for a <HI>Retreat:</HI> But that you may &s;ee we will follow you into all your SHIFTS, I will undertake the <HI>Proof</HI> of our being CHRISTIANS, with any of you, upon &s;uch <HI>Evidences,</HI> as <HI>Chri&s;tians</HI> and <HI>Martyrs</HI> have been wont to give; and if they happen to prove <HI>No Evidences in your e&s;teem,</HI> I will make it appear, that <HI>you not only do conclude us, but</HI> YOUR SELVES, <HI>with the be&s;t of tho&s;e you e&s;teem</HI> Chri|&s;tians, <HI>gro&s;s</HI> IMPOSTORS.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. VVhitehead,</SPEAKER>
<P>Ob&s;erve how far this Debate is gone.</P>
<P>1&s;t, The Re&s;ult of <HI>J. Ives,</HI> his proving the <HI>Quakers</HI> no <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> is turned to a putting it on us to prove our &s;elves <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> and <HI>VV. Penn</HI> a <HI>Mini&s;ter,</HI> which was not the Que&s;tion.</P>
<P>2d, That we mu&s;t Evidence that <HI>immediate Revelation</HI> is our <HI>Rule,</HI> or el&s;e we are no <HI>Chri|&s;tians,</HI> but Impo&s;tors; but what Evidence that mu&s;t be (whereby we may convince the&s;e pre|judiced Oppo&s;ers) he has not told us: However be it ob&s;erved, that if true <HI>Chri&s;tians</HI> mu&s;t &s;hew &s;ome <HI>Outward Evidence</HI> of their having <HI>immedi|ate Revelation</HI> or <HI>In&s;piration;</HI> it follows, that all,
<PB N="18" REF="16"> even <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> and others, who now deny both, or &s;ay they ceas'd, are <HI>No Chri&s;tians.</HI></P>
<P>3d, Suppo&s;e we do not, or are not called to give an <HI>Outward Evidence</HI> or <HI>Demon&s;tration</HI> of our <HI>Chri&s;tianity,</HI> to the Conviction of all who require it, or impo&s;e upon us therein; it fol|lows not, that we are No <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> much le&s;s Impo&s;tors; for there were &s;ome, among whom Chri&s;t him&s;elf co<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">ld not do many Miracles, be|cau&s;e of their Unbelief; and others that &s;aid, <HI>He ca&s;t out Devils by Beelzebub.</HI> [All true <HI>Chri|&s;tians</HI> were not Workers of Miracles.] Nor did the Apo&s;tles give &s;uch <HI>Evidence,</HI> as made all believe and confe&s;s they were true Mini&s;ters; for they were counted Deceivers, yet true; and &s;o manife&s;t in many Mens Con&s;ciences in the &s;ight of God: And though we profe&s;s and ex|perience <HI>immediate</HI> and <HI>Divine Revelation,</HI> as the Ground of our Faith and Te&s;timony; yet we do not profe&s;s (or look on our &s;elves as obliged) to make all (that require <HI>Signs</HI> of us) believe and conf<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;s to us, <HI>as &s;uch,</HI> e&s;pecially, &s;uch as are in Enmity and Prejudice again&s;t us: However, we hav<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> a Proof or Evidence in Mens Con&s;cien|ces, <HI>&amp;c.</HI></P>
<STAGE>[Here the <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> were earne&s;tly urged by very many Per&s;ons to continue the Di&s;cour&s;e; <HI>VV P.</HI> calling upon them, <HI>Do not run away, do not run away;</HI> and adding]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>VV. P.</SPEAKER>
<P>If &s;o to believe as to <HI>have the VVit|ne&s;s in a Man's &s;elf,</HI> be &s;ufficient to render a Man a <HI>Chri&s;tian,</HI> as holy Scripture imports; then a Man's b<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">ing a <HI>Chri&s;tian,</HI> depends not up|on a di&s;tingui&s;hing <HI>External Evidence</HI> from what
<PB N="19" REF="16"> an <HI>Impo&s;tor</HI> may give, but the <HI>Evidence in him&s;elf;</HI> otherwi&s;e, becau&s;e an <HI>Impo&s;tor</HI> may make as fair a <HI>&s;how,</HI> a<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> a real <HI>Chri&s;tian</HI> that ha<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">h the <HI>Evidence in him&s;elf,</HI> it would follow, that <HI>He</HI> is as good a <HI>Chri&s;tian,</HI> though he hath no <HI>&s;uch Witne&s;s in him&s;elf.</HI></P>
<P>If <HI>He be not a</HI> Jew <HI>that is one</HI> Outward, <HI>but HE a true Go&s;pel</HI> Jew <HI>that is one</HI> Inward; then &s;ince an <HI>Impo&s;tor</HI> can imita<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">e the <HI>Former,</HI> and not the <HI>Latter,</HI> it follows, that <HI>A Man may be a true</HI> Jew (that is, <HI>a true</HI> Chri&s;tian) <HI>who may not exceed an</HI> Impo&s;tor, <HI>as to</HI> External Evidence, <HI>VVords or Forms.</HI></P>
<P>If the <HI>Spirit of God witne&s;&s;ing with the Spirits</HI> of the Ancient <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> that they were Chil|dren of God, was a &s;ufficient Evidence thereof; then &s;ince no Impo&s;tor has that Evidence, and that Evidence is not vi&s;ible, it follows that a Man may be a <HI>Chri&s;tian</HI> by &s;uch a Te&s;timony that doth not always di&s;tingui&s;h him by outward Ob&s;ervation, to the Eyes of the World, from an Impo&s;tor.</P>
<P>If <HI>Fle&s;h and Blood could not reveal Chri&s;t,</HI> nei|ther could Fle&s;h and Blood &s;ee or reveal that Revelation: But will it therefore follow that Revelation was no Evidence in it &s;elf, and that <HI>Peter</HI> was <HI>No Chri&s;tian?</HI></P>
<STAGE>[Note Reader, <HI>whil&s;t</HI> W. Penn <HI>was &s;peaking,</HI> J. Ives, T. Plant, R. Taylor, <HI>&amp;c. went their way; but the Auditory remained, bating it may be, of Two Thou&s;and People, not One Hundred that went away with them.]</HI></STAGE>
<P>In &s;hort, if <HI>Jer. Ives</HI> intended an Evidence, that is, &s;uch as &s;hould be convincing to &s;ome bo|dy,
<PB N="20" REF="17"> though this is not ab&s;olutely nece&s;&s;ary in it &s;elf, as in the Ca&s;e of a Man that is <HI>born Dumb,</HI> or one <HI>&s;truck Speechle&s;s</HI> upon a <HI>&s;ick-Bed,</HI> &amp;c. yet will it not reach the Terms of <HI>J. Ives</HI> his Que&s;tion: And if he intend by an Evidence, &s;uch as &s;hould be convincing to every Body, then I utterly deny it; for by the &s;ame Rea&s;on, the greate&s;t of Miracles, and mo&s;t excellent Argu|ment that the Lord Je&s;us Chri&s;t be&s;towed upon the unbelieving <HI>Jews,</HI> would be no Evidence in it &s;elf, becau&s;e not received by them. The Con&s;equence is the horrid Bla&s;phemy of the <HI>Phari&s;ees,</HI> That he ca&s;t out Devils by <HI>Beelzebub,</HI> the Prince of Devils. This doth exclude all Martyrs from having a &s;ufficient Evidence be|cau&s;e they could not convince their Pe&s;ecutors of the Validity of that Evidence.</P>
<P>I do not doubt the poor Woman that &s;aid, <HI>She could not di&s;pute for Chri&s;t, but &s;he could burn for him,</HI> had a &s;ufficient <HI>Evidence,</HI> and better than an Impo&s;tor, that could have made a better <HI>verbal De|fence.</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Book of Mart.</HI> 3. <HI>Vol.</HI> p. 298.</NOTE> I remember that <HI>J. Bradford,</HI> that hone&s;t Martyr, gave this An&s;wer to the <HI>Arch-Bi&s;hop</HI> of <HI>York, VVe do believe and know the Scriptures, as Chri&s;t's Sheep; not becau&s;e the Church &s;aith they are the Scriptures; but becau&s;e they be &s;o, being thereof a&s;&s;ured by the &s;ame Spirit which &s;pake them.</HI> This was all, I read, he gave to the <HI>Bi&s;hop,</HI> as an <HI>Evidence</HI> of his Faith concerning the Scriptures: Did therefore <HI>J. Bradford</HI> believe them no more than an Impo&s;tor, becau&s;e an Impo&s;tor might &s;ay &s;o? Or was there no better <HI>Evidence</HI>
<PB N="21" REF="17"> to <HI>Prote&s;tants</HI> of him, than that he was an Im|po&s;tor?</P>
<P>Al&s;o B. <HI>Jewel,</HI> one of the learned&s;t and mo&s;t ancient <HI>Prelates</HI> of the <HI>Church</HI> of <HI>England,</HI> in his Book again&s;t <HI>Harding,</HI> p. 532, 534. a&s;&s;erts, <HI>That without the &s;pecial Help, Prompting and Reve|lation of God's Holy Spirit, the Scriptures are to the Reader, be he never &s;o wi&s;e or well learned, as the Vi&s;ion of a Sealed Book:</HI> So that, <HI>1&s;t. In&s;pera|tion</HI> was the Rule of their believing and under|&s;tanding Scripture: <HI>2dly,</HI> The <HI>Evidence</HI> that they and other <HI>Chri&s;tians</HI> gave of their <HI>Chri&s;tia|nity,</HI> be&s;ides good Words and Works, was, that internal <HI>Evidence</HI> of the Spirit, which <HI>Gaul. Cradock</HI> affirms, <HI>gives to know the Spirit, or Fruits of it, in other Men.</HI> To conclude, if Ar|ticles of Faith, according to Scripture, the In|&s;piration of the Spirit of Truth, fair Words, and &s;ober Living, and Sufferings, are no <HI>Evi|dence,</HI> becau&s;e imitable, or pretended to by Im|po&s;tors; or that all &s;uch are Impo&s;tors, who can|not Evidence their Right to &s;uch things; not on|ly Millions in Happine&s;s are que&s;tioned, as to their Sincerity, by <HI>J. I.</HI> but the be&s;t among tho&s;e he accounts Chri&s;tians, now alive, mu&s;t be concluded Impo&s;tors; and for him&s;elf, alas, poor Man! He will prove an IMPOSTOR with a witne&s;s.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>J. Crook,</SPEAKER>
<P>It &s;eems very unrea&s;onable, that he that hath Faith, and is a true Believer, &s;hould give an <HI>Outward Evidence</HI> of his <HI>Faith to him that hath no true Faith, or el&s;e he must be</HI> No Chri|&s;tian; &s;eeing the Scripture &s;aith, and it is true, That <HI>there is a white Stone, and a New Name</HI>
<PB N="22" REF="18"> <HI>written in it, which no Man knows, but he that hath it:</HI> And he that hath it in him&s;elf, knows <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">t cer|tainly to be the <HI>True Evidence,</HI> when he hea<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">s it from another; for it an&s;wers, <HI>as Face to Face in a Gla&s;s:</HI> And as <HI>Job</HI> &s;aith, <HI>There is an Ear that tryeth VVords, as the Palate ta&s;teth Meat,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
<STAGE>[Much more was &s;poke by him to Evidence the Truth of this A&s;&s;ertion, to the Peoples great Contentment; but cannot &s;o particularly and ex|actly be remembred.]</STAGE>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. VVhitehead,</SPEAKER>
<P>I have been concerned in ma|ny Di&s;putes and Controver&s;ies about Religion, and with divers &s;orts of People; but <HI>never met with &s;uch unfair Dealing, clamorous VVork and hideous noi&s;e in Di&s;putes, from any People, as from the&s;e Men,</HI> though we owe them no ill will; the Lord open their, and all your Under&s;tandings: I de&s;ire that <HI>Seriou&s;ne&s;s, Sobriety,</HI> and the <HI>Fear of God</HI> may po&s;&s;e&s;s all your Hearts, <HI>&amp;c.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G. Keith,</SPEAKER>
<P>Friends and People, I de&s;ire you to take notice, that whereas I &s;aid, We had as great Evidences to &s;how that we were <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> as any <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> on Earth: I &s;poke mode&s;tly, I could have &s;aid more, and now I do &s;ay more; for there are two Outward Evidences of a Chri|&s;tian unto others; one is <HI>Good VVorks;</HI> another is to <HI>Suffer patiently and boldly</HI> for the Principles of the <HI>Chri&s;tian Religion:</HI> Now the <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> dare not deny but our <HI>Works</HI> are as good as their own: And as for our <HI>Sufferings</HI> in times of Per&s;e|cution, they commended them far above their own; then they could call us their <HI>WALL of Defence</HI> betwixt them and the Blows of Per&s;e|cution; and told us, they Prayed for us, as di|vers
<PB N="23" REF="18"> here pre&s;ent can witne&s;s. Note, <HI>Reader,</HI> if any object that Saying, <HI>Not the Suffering, but the Cau&s;e makes the Martyr;</HI> I &s;ay, the Maxim is true; but they have not yet proved, that our Cau&s;e is not good; this they did undertake, but have been &s;hamefully foyled in their Pur|&s;uance of it, as doth appear to &s;uch indifferent and impartial Auditors, as were pre&s;ent both times; and may appear to all &s;uch impartial Men, who read the&s;e Relations of the whole Matter in Print.</P>
<STAGE><HI>[J. Crook</HI> added a few words more to the People, and concluded the Meeting with his Prayer.]</STAGE>
</SP>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="apology">
<PB N="24" REF="19">
<HEAD>George Keith's VINDICATION FROM THE FORGERIES and ABUSES OF <HI>T. Hicks,</HI> and <HI>W. Kiffin,</HI> With the re&s;t of his Confederate Brethren of the <HI>Barbican-Meeting,</HI> held at <HI>London</HI> the 28th of the 6th Month, 1674.</HEAD>
<P>HAving waited long for an Opportunity to vindicate my Innocency from the <HI>For|geries</HI> and <HI>Abu&s;es</HI> of <HI>T. Hicks</HI> and <HI>W. Kif|fin,</HI> with the re&s;t of the Confederates of the <HI>Barbican-Meeting,</HI> held at <HI>London</HI> the 28th of the 6th Month, 1674. In which Meeting they publickly abus'd me behind my Back, when I was not pre&s;ent to an&s;wer for my &s;elf, nor could be pre&s;ent, having gone out of <HI>England</HI> into another Nation &s;everal days before any thing was publi&s;hed of their <HI>Barbican-Meeting:</HI> And &s;eeing I was publickly injur'd both by <HI>T. H.</HI> and them, <HI>as others of my Friends and Bre|thren were;</HI> I judged it rea&s;onable to de&s;ire a Pub|lick Meeting with them, that I might have an occa&s;ion as publickly to clear my &s;elf, as I was
<PB N="25" REF="19"> publickly abu&s;ed; therefore I joyned I&s;&s;ue with my Friends <HI>G. Whitehead, W. Penn,</HI> and <HI>S. Cri&s;p,</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>They were &s;o indeed then, and are now the &s;ame Men, yet by thee oppo&s;ed and ba&s;ely ex|po&s;ed, in favour of</HI> T. Hicks, <HI>&s;o that thou art</HI> Tho. Hicks <HI>re|vived.</HI></NOTE> who were al&s;o publickly a|bu&s;ed with me, in divers Letters, to de&s;ire them to give us a Publick Meeting for clearing our &s;elves of the <HI>Forgeries</HI> of <HI>T. H.</HI> One Meeting they granted us at <HI>Barbican,</HI> the 9th of the 8th Month; but &s;o loath were they to hear us make good our Charge again&s;t both him and them, that the Meeting of that Day was &s;pent, and yet our Proof of the very fir&s;t <HI>Article</HI> of our Charge not taken by them into Con&s;ideration: Another Publick Meeting we appointed our &s;elves, which was rea&s;onable, &s;eeing they &s;till deferred to hear us prove our Charge again&s;t <HI>T. H.</HI> but <HI>T. Hicks</HI> did not come to this Meeting, though he was greatly concerned in it, and had timely notice given him thereof, only &s;ome o|ther <HI>Bapti&s;ts,</HI> with <HI>Jeremy Ives,</HI> as per&s;onating <HI>T. H.</HI> did apear; but neither at this Meeting (by rea&s;on of their mo&s;t unrea&s;onable evading our Charge) got we over the fir&s;t Article; and &s;ince that time they &s;eemed to yield to another Meeting, wherein my Charge again&s;t <HI>T. H.</HI> might be heard; but withal, told our Friends and us, that they would not hear any other thing until <HI>T. H.</HI> &s;hould be heard in what he could object again&s;t the <HI>Quakers,</HI> as being <HI>No Chri&s;tians:</HI> And though I had a great de&s;ire to have a publick Opportunity to clear my Inno|cency, yet &s;eeing I could not have it, but upon
<PB N="26" REF="20"> that unrea&s;onable Condition, invented by them only to evade the Pur&s;uance of our Charge a|gain&s;t <HI>T. H.</HI> I yielded rather to want that Op|portunity, e&s;pecially &s;eeing the Meeting they yielded unto, was not a Publick Meeting as the former, but a Private Meeting of &s;ome <HI>Select Per&s;ons</HI> on each &s;ide: And indeed, &s;uch a <HI>private Meeting</HI> hath but little Service in it to clear one <HI>publickly</HI> from a <HI>publick Abu&s;e,</HI> which I have found in part by Experience; for having had a <HI>private Meeting</HI> with <HI>T. H.</HI> before divers Witne&s;&s;es on each &s;ide, wherein I had openly proved him to have <HI>gro&s;ly abu&s;ed me,</HI> and brought him to that Strait, <HI>that he had nothing to an&s;wer, but that he referred him&s;elf to the Hearers;</HI> and &s;ome of the Hearers openly affirmed, who were neither of the <HI>Bapti&s;ts</HI> nor <HI>Quakers,</HI> that <HI>T. H.</HI> had <HI>a|bu&s;ed me:</HI> Yet after all this, I find <HI>T. H.</HI> and his <HI>Confederate</HI> Brethren renew the former A|bu&s;e: And having now for a long time waited the Opportunity of a <HI>publick Meeting</HI> with tho&s;e <HI>Bapti&s;ts,</HI> to clear my &s;elf of the Abu&s;e of <HI>T. H.</HI> and his <HI>Confederates,</HI> and yet cannot obtain it; I find it lying as a Weight upon me, to take an Occa&s;ion of this Nature to clear my &s;elf, not &s;o much for my &s;elf or my own Reputation, I can truly &s;ay, as for the <HI>Truth</HI>'s &s;ake, and to remove <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>That is, the Reli|gion of the People called</HI> Quakers, <HI>which he is gone from&punc;</HI></NOTE> the Stumbling-block out of the way of the Simple.</P>
<P>My fir&s;t Charge again&s;t <HI>T. H.</HI> is of <HI>Forgery,</HI> in his <HI>Continuation of the Dialogue,</HI> p. 49. where <HI>forgedly</HI> he brings me in &s;aying thus, <Q REND="margDblQuotes"><HI>This</HI>
<PB N="27" REF="20"> <HI>Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave, and all his Mi|ni&s;ters Preach'd People to this, the Lo&s;t in Man, that it might be found, a lo&s;t God, a lo&s;t Chri&s;t; this was the</HI> Sum <HI>and</HI> Sub&s;tance <HI>of their Doctrine,</HI></Q> Im. Rev. p. 75, 76. Upon which he thus di&s;|canteth (after he hath abu&s;ed my words both by <HI>adding</HI> and <HI>dimini&s;hing) Blu&s;h O Heavens, and be a&s;toni&s;hed O Earth! Was ever &s;uch a thing as this heard of before, That Je&s;us Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave a lo&s;t God, a lo&s;t Chri&s;t? Was ever God and Chri&s;t in a lo&s;t Condition?</HI></P>
<P>Now Friendly and Impartial Reader, <HI>if thou love&s;t to be undeceived,</HI> and be'&s;t but willing to &s;ee the <HI>Abu&s;e</HI> and <HI>Forgery</HI> of <HI>T. H.</HI> in this par|ticular; do but read the words of my Book, as they &s;tand entirely therein, and without any more pains thou wilt &s;ee the <HI>Deceit</HI> and <HI>Forge|ry, <HI>Fir&s;t,</HI></HI> by adding the word THIS, &s;aying, This <HI>Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave;</HI> and then by alledging on me, that I &s;ay, <HI>Je&s;us Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave a lo&s;t God, a lo&s;t Chri&s;t,</HI> which pa&s;&s;age is <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>And what art thou doing now thy &s;elf a|gain&s;t that very Peo|ple and way</HI> T. H. <HI>&s;o gro&s;ly abu&s;ed, and thou then defended&s;t</HI> mi&s;e|rable Man!</NOTE> <HI>gro&s;s Forgery</HI> and <HI>Abu&s;e;</HI> for I no where &s;ay in my Book, <HI>That Je&s;us Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave a lo&s;t God, a lo&s;t Chri&s;t:</HI> it's true, in p. 79. I cite the words of Chri&s;t, <HI>That Je&s;us Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave that which was lo&s;t;</HI> but I do not &s;ay that <HI>Lo&s;t,</HI> which Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave, was <HI>God;</HI> nor in|deed is it deducible from my words by any ju&s;t or rea&s;onable Con&s;equence; and God, who &s;earcheth my Heart, knoweth, I never intended
<PB N="28" REF="21"> any &s;uch thing, as that Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave a lo&s;t God. I cited the words of Chri&s;t, <HI>and I hope there is no Bla&s;phemy in them,</HI> viz. <HI>Je|&s;us Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave that which was lo&s;e;</HI> but the&s;e words I do not apply to God and Chri&s;t, as if God and Chri&s;t were that <HI>Lo&s;t</HI> which Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave; and this may appear from my words them&s;elves, which run by way of Parallel or Compari&s;on, <HI>viz.</HI> <Q REND="margDblQuotes">And as Je&s;us Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave the lo&s;t; &s;o all his Mini&s;ters ever Preached People to this, the Lo&s;t in them, that it might be found, that they may find a lo&s;t God, a lo&s;t Chri&s;t, whom they had lo&s;t, and from whom they were &s;eparated by their Sins; This was the <HI>Sum</HI> and <HI>Sub&s;tance</HI> of their Doctrine, to turn them to God, and to his Son Je&s;us Chri&s;t <HI>near them:</HI></Q> Now in the&s;e my words I draw a Parallel, wherein two Propo&s;itions run parallel, in both which the word <HI>Lo&s;t</HI> is; but it is not, nor cannot in both Propo&s;itions be under&s;tood of God and Chri&s;t; but only in the la&s;t Propo&s;ition by Lo&s;t is under&s;tood God and Chri&s;t, whom they had lo&s;t, and from whom they <HI>(viz. Men)</HI> were &s;eparated by their Sins: I &s;ay, in the&s;e two parallel Propo&s;itions, by <HI>lo&s;t</HI> cannot be meant one and the &s;ame thing, no more than in <HI>Rom.</HI> 5. 18. where it is &s;aid, <HI>As by the Offence of</HI> one, <HI>Judgment is come</HI> on all <HI>to Con|demnation; &s;o by the Righteou&s;ne&s;s of</HI> one, <HI>the free Gift is come</HI> upon <HI>all to ju&s;tification of Life:</HI> Here the word <HI>One</HI> in both Propo&s;itions is u&s;ed; but in the one it &s;ignifieth the fir&s;t <HI>Adam,</HI> in the other it &s;ignifieth <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> the &s;econd <HI>Adam;</HI>
<PB N="29" REF="21"> &s;o by <HI>Lo&s;t</HI> in the fir&s;t Propo&s;ition, I mean Men, who were lo&s;t, or lo&s;t Sinners, as al&s;o that pure Formation or Creation in Men, which by Man's Fall came to be vailed and &s;lain in him, but not annihilated; and by <HI>Lo&s;t</HI> in the Second Propo&s;ition, I under&s;tand God and Chri&s;t, whom Men had lo&s;t, and &s;o all the true Mini|&s;ters of Chri&s;t Preached Men to God and Chri&s;t whom they had lo&s;t, that they might find him, <HI>to wit,</HI> God and Chri&s;t, who was near them in their own Hou&s;e, that is, in their own Hearts; and &s;o the plain and open Sen&s;e of my words is this, <HI>That as Je&s;us Chri&s;t</HI> came to &s;eek and &s;ave the <HI>lo&s;t Souls</HI> of Men, and to rai&s;e up and recover the Image of God in Men again; <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Do thy pre&s;ent a|betting Mini&s;ters of the Church of</HI> Eng|land, Presbyterians, Independants, Ana|bapti&s;ts <HI>do &s;o? Thou knowe&s;t they do not. What are they then, by thy own a&s;&s;ertion? O</HI> George, <HI>&s;ee whence thou art fallen and Re|pent.</HI></NOTE> &s;o <HI>all the true Mini&s;ters of Chri&s;t</HI> Preached People to God and Chri&s;t <HI>near them,</HI> whom tho' Men had lo&s;t, yet were near unto them, to &s;ave them, and to bring them again into the Enjoyment of him, and Fel|low&s;hip with him.</P>
<P>The &s;econd part of <HI>T. H.</HI> his <HI>Forgery</HI> in this particular, is by dimini&s;hing from my words, and cutting off from a perfect Sentence the <HI>la&s;t</HI> Part of it, which is explanatory of the fir&s;t, <HI>viz.</HI> from this perfect and intire Sentence<HI>&mdash;That they may find a lo&s;t God, a lo&s;t Chri&s;t, whom they had lo&s;t, and from whom they were &s;eparated by their Sins;</HI> which words, <HI>[whom they had lo&s;t, and from whom they were &s;eparated by their Sins]</HI> do clear me,
<PB N="30" REF="22"> that I did not mean that God or Chri&s;t was in a lo&s;t Condition, or that God had lo&s;t him&s;elf, but that Men by their Sins had lo&s;t God and Chri&s;t: And indeed, that which gave me occa|&s;ion to u&s;e the word <HI>lo&s;t,</HI> was the Parable of Chri&s;t concerning the Woman having lo&s;t her piece of Silver in her Hou&s;e, <HI>Luke</HI> 15. 8, 9. <HI>And &s;he lighteth a Candle and &s;weepeth the Hou&s;e, and &s;eeketh diligently, till &s;he find it, and when &s;he find|eth it, &s;he calleth her Friends and maketh merry with them, through joy that the lo&s;t piece of money is found:</HI> And this Hou&s;e (&s;ay I) where the lo&s;t piece of Money was lo&s;t, and is found, is Man's Heart; it was lo&s;t by <HI>Adam</HI>'s Fall, yet it re|mained &s;till in the Hou&s;e, and in the Hou&s;e in Man's Heart it's to be found; and the Candle is lighted in this Hou&s;e, and it mu&s;t be &s;wept to find it: <HI>By all which Chri&s;t Je&s;us points at this Principle,</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Brave Doctrine</HI> George, <HI>what &s;ays the B. of</HI> H. <HI>the D.</HI> M. <HI>thy</HI> Scotch Pres|byters, Conforming <HI>Mini&s;ters, to this? What &s;ays thy</HI> Bapti&s;t <HI>Auditors to this? This it &s;elf mu&s;t go at la&s;t, or thou wilt never do thy bu&s;ine&s;s, but they'l leave thee, as thou ha&s;t left us.</HI></NOTE> <HI>his Kingdom or Appearance by his Light in Man's Heart;</HI> and the Scope of all the&s;e Para|bles is, to turn in Man's Mind to the <HI>Kingdom,</HI> the <HI>Light</HI> of Chri&s;t <HI>in</HI> the Heart, to find the Trea&s;ure, the Pearl, the lo&s;t piece of Mo|ney <HI>there,</HI> to find it where it was lo&s;t, and is hid; for <HI>there</HI> it is to be enjoyed and po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ed; <HI>no Man po&s;&s;e&s;&s;es more of God or Chri&s;t but what is re|vealed in him&s;elf:</HI> See my Book, <HI>Im. Rev.</HI> p. 75. Now of this two fold, <HI>Abu&s;e</HI> and <HI>Forgery,</HI> I
<PB N="31" REF="22"> charge not only <HI>T. H.</HI> but <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Which were</HI> Inde|pendents, <HI>and both &s;orts of</HI> Bapti&s;ts.</NOTE> <HI>W. K.</HI> and his <HI>Confederate Brethren <HI>of the Barbican-Meeting,</HI></HI> who in their Book, called, <HI>The Qua|kers Appeal An&s;wered,</HI> fall into the &s;ame Error with <HI>T. H.</HI> both <HI>adding</HI> and <HI>dimini&s;hing: Fir&s;t</HI> adding, as where they &s;ay, This <HI>Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave, and all his Mini&s;ters preached People to this, the Lo&s;t in Man, a</HI> Lo&s;t God, <HI>a Lo&s;t Chri&s;t;</HI> where they make the Word <HI>This,</HI> relate to God and Chri&s;t; this is an ab&s;olute <HI>Forgery;</HI> for <HI>neither</HI> in p. 75. nor p. 76. do I u&s;e the Word, <HI>This</HI> Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave, far le&s;s do I apply it to God. And <HI>Secondly, Dimi|ni&s;hing,</HI> a lo&s;t God, a lo&s;t Chri&s;t, leaving out the la&s;t Part of the Sentence <HI>[whom they had lo&s;t, and from whom they were &s;eparate by their Sins.]</HI></P>
<P>In a Meeting with <HI>T. H.</HI> before many Wit|ne&s;&s;es I accu&s;ed him of this <HI>Forgery,</HI> telling him, that if he would take this Liberty to add to, and dimini&s;h from a Man's Words, he <HI>might as well alledge</HI> from the Scripture, that it &s;aith, <HI>There is not a God,</HI> by leaving out the Words, <HI>The Fool hath &s;aid in his Heart:</HI> But to this <HI>T. H.</HI> an&s;wered three Things in that <HI>Pri|vate Meeting</HI> I had with him, which he there &s;etteth down in the Book called, <HI>The Quakers Appeal an&s;wered;</HI> to all which three I did par|ticularly an&s;wer, whereof he &s;aith nothing, and in that hath dealt unfairly and cowardly: But &s;eeing he telleth them over again, I &s;hall now take them into Con&s;ideration: <HI>Fir&s;t,</HI> Saith <HI>T. H. It's true, tho&s;e Words were added,</HI> viz. Whom they had lo&s;t; <HI>yet they were no otherwi&s;e &s;erviceable</HI>
<PB N="32" REF="23"> <HI>to him, then as a Blind to deceive his unwary Rea|der; for fir&s;t, by Lo&s;t in his whole Di&s;cour&s;e in that Book cited, is intended of God and Chri&s;t, which he there calls, the Principle, Kingdom or Appearance of Chri&s;t by his Light in Man's Heart.</HI> To this I an&s;wer, if <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>And art thou turn'd</HI> T. Hicks <HI>to thy Bre|thren? Oh uncertain Man.</HI></NOTE> I had u&s;ed the&s;e Words but as a Blind to <HI>deceive the un|wary Reader,</HI> as he alledgeth, that is no Excu&s;e for him to leave them out; he ought to have &s;et down the perfect Sentence, and if there had been any Deceit in it, to have &s;hewn it; but it is manife&s;t that the&s;e Words were wilfully and deliberately clipt off by him, becau&s;e they do &s;o apparently cro&s;s his naughty De&s;ign of abu&s;ing me: But next I &s;ay, it's but a &s;orry and unrea&s;onable Allegance, that I u&s;e the&s;e Words only as a <HI>Blind to deceive the unwa|ry Reader;</HI> his Rea&s;ons are too void and empty of Rea&s;on to prove any &s;uch Thing, as <HI>fir&s;t,</HI> that by Lo&s;t <HI>in his whole Di&s;cour&s;e in that Book cited, is intended of God and Chri&s;t.</HI> I an&s;wer, This is utterly fal&s;e, and a mo&s;t gro&s;s Untruth; for in <HI>&s;everal Places</HI> in my Book I &s;peak expre&s;|ly of <HI>lo&s;t Man,</HI> and the Soul of Man as lo&s;t and &s;aved; for Proof of which, &s;ee the&s;e following Quotations out of my Book of <HI>Immediate Reve|lation,</HI> as p. 39. within two Lines of the End <HI>I &s;ay,</HI> <Q REND="margQuotes">The <NOTE PLACE="marg">Thou v<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">n<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">ured&s;t far; art thou of this mind &s;till?</NOTE> Go&s;pel is the preaching the glad Tidings of <HI>Salvation</HI> unto poor <HI>lo&s;t Man</HI> by Je&s;us Chri&s;t him&s;elf <HI>im|mediately in his Heart:</HI></Q> Mark here two Things; <HI>Fir&s;t,</HI> That I expre&s;ly &s;peak of lo&s;t Man; <HI>Se|condly,</HI>
<PB N="33" REF="23"> That the <HI>Go&s;pel</HI> is the <HI>preaching the</HI> Glad-Tidings of <HI>Salvation</HI> unto poor <HI>lo&s;t Man;</HI> whereas according to <HI>T. H.</HI> his <HI>Forgery,</HI> it had been, the preaching the glad Tidings of Salva|tion unto lo&s;t <HI>God,</HI> which is Bla&s;phemous. A|gain, &s;ee p. 13. line 35. where <HI>I &s;ay,</HI> <Q REND="margQuotes">So that as the Lord remembreth Mercy unto <HI>lo&s;t Man</HI> in the mid&s;t of Wrath, <HI>&amp;c.</HI></Q> Mark again, here I &s;peak of <HI>lo&s;t Man.</HI> Again, in this &s;ame p. 13. line 5, 6, 7, 8. I &s;peak expre&s;ly of the Salvation of the Soul, and of its Delivery from the Bondage of Corruption, line 13. Again in this &s;ame p. 13. about the middle of the Page I &s;ay, <Q REND="margQuotes">Whereas the Mercy goeth forth in the Judgment towards <HI>Man</HI> in the fallen State to recover and convert him:</Q> Mark, I do not &s;ay, according to <HI>T. H.</HI> his <HI>ba&s;e <HI>Forgery,</HI></HI> whereas the Mer|cy <NOTE PLACE="marg">Thou can&s;t call things &s;ometimes by their right Names, I &s;ee.</NOTE> goeth forth in the Judge|ment towards God in a lo&s;t Condition, to recover and convert God; but towards <HI>Man</HI> in the fallen State to recover and convert him: Al&s;o I do very plainly and ex|pre&s;&s;y di&s;tingui&s;h betwixt the Soul or Mind of Man, and the Seed of God in the Soul: See p. 8. line 9, 10, 11, 12. and p. 23. line 28, 29, 30, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> I need not cite more Places, the&s;e be|ing &s;ufficient to &s;how <HI>T. H.</HI> his ba&s;e <HI>Forgery. Secondly,</HI> Saith, <HI>T. H. The Sen&s;e I put upon the Word</HI> Lo&s;t, <HI>is no other then what W. P. allows,</HI> <Q REND="margQuotes">Lo&s;t, <HI>&s;aith he,</HI> as taken by <HI>T. H.</HI> is meant of Man's <HI>lo&s;t</HI> Condition, and as there u&s;ed by <HI>G. K.</HI> is under&s;tood of <HI>God</HI> and <HI>Chri&s;t,</HI> whom Man had <HI>lo&s;t, Rea&s;. ag. Rail.</HI> p. 61.</Q> To this I
<PB N="34" REF="24"> an&s;wer, This Cover of <HI>T. H.</HI> is as narrow and weak as the former; for <HI>W. P. &s;aith true,</HI> that by <HI>Lo&s;t</HI> I <NOTE PLACE="marg">W. P. <HI>is mightily be|holding to thee, and &s;o</HI> thou ha&s;t been to him too, <HI>as cour&s;ely as thou ha&s;t u&s;ed him &s;ince.</HI></NOTE> under&s;tand <HI>God</HI> and <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> whom Man had <HI>lo&s;t,</HI> when I &s;ay, that they may find a <HI>lo&s;t God</HI> a <HI>lo&s;t Chri&s;t,</HI> &amp;c. But when I &s;ay, Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave that which was <HI>lo&s;t;</HI> by <HI>Lo&s;t</HI> in this Propo&s;ition, neither I, nor <HI>W. P.</HI> &s;ay, that by <HI>Lo&s;t,</HI> which Chri&s;t <HI>came</HI> to &s;eek and &s;ave, is meant God; &s;o that by the Word <HI>Lo&s;t</HI> in my Book, I do not mean only <HI>God</HI> and <HI>Chri&s;t,</HI> nor <HI>always,</HI> but <HI>&s;ometimes</HI> Man, and <HI>&s;ometimes</HI> that <HI>pure Creation</HI> or <HI>Formation</HI> of Holine&s;s and Righ|teou&s;ne&s;s which God placed in Man in the Begin|ning, and <HI>&s;ometimes</HI> God, whom Men had lo&s;t; and &s;o <HI>impudently wicked</HI> is <HI>T. H.</HI> that he blames me for an <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>More plain dealing with</HI> T. Hicks.</NOTE> Expre&s;&s;ion, and yet u&s;eth the &s;ame Expre&s;&s;ion, and com|mendeth it as &s;afely &s;poken, <HI>viz. If you had &s;aid, that Je&s;us Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave Sinners who were ia a lo&s;t Condition, and to &s;tir them up to &s;eek after God whom they had lo&s;t, you had &s;poken &s;afely:</HI> And in very deed, I &s;peak all this upon the Matter, as is clear from the afore&s;aid Quotations: But I de&s;ire the Reader to take notice, that the whole Stre&s;s of <HI>T. H. his</HI> Allegati|on again&s;t me is, that by <HI>lo&s;t</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>And could not his harms warn thee; thou &s;ee&s;t how ill it was to pervert, how come&s;t thou to</HI> lick up <HI>T. H's</HI> Vomit to &s;pew it out upon thy Brethren?</NOTE> in all my Book, I intend only <HI>God</HI> and <HI>Chri&s;t,</HI> as appeareth not only from what he &s;aith in the <HI>Quakers Appeal an&s;wered,</HI>
<PB N="35" REF="24"> but what he &s;aith in his <HI>third Dialogue,</HI> p. 35. <HI>Its true</HI> (&s;aith <HI>T. H.)</HI> George Keith <HI>&s;peaks of People finding a lo&s;t God, whom they had lo&s;t; but &s;till if</HI> Lo&s;t <HI>be meant only God and Chri&s;t, how can Chri&s;t be &s;aid to &s;eek and &s;ave a</HI> lo&s;t God? Here <HI>T. H.</HI> &s;uppo&s;eth a gro&s;s Untruth, which is a <HI>Forgery,</HI> to wit, <HI>That by</HI> Lo&s;t <HI>I mean only God and Chri&s;t;</HI> I have &s;hown the contrary above by plain Citations out of my Book.</P>
<P>The third Rea&s;on of <HI>T. H.</HI> for his Allegati|on is, <HI>That the Sen&s;e in which he repre&s;ented me, was according to the Opinions of others of my Friends.</HI> To this I an&s;wer (as I formerly did) that now &s;ince he could not prove his <HI>Forged</HI> Sen&s;e from my own Words, and he goeth about to prove it from the Words of other Men, is not fair, nor an&s;werable to his Undertaking, which was to prove that <HI>G. K.</HI> &s;aid &s;o: And how doth he &s;eek to prove this? <HI>Becau&s;e</HI> W. P. <HI>or</HI> J. N. <HI>&s;aid &s;o:</HI> But by this <HI>beggarly Eva&s;ion</HI> he may run round in a Circle continually, and do nothing, but manife&s;t his own <HI>Impudence;</HI> for how will he prove, that <HI>W. P. J. N.</HI> or any real <HI>Qua|ker</HI> &s;aid &s;o? He may as well &s;ay, <HI>Becau&s;e</HI> G. K. <HI>&s;aid &s;o:</HI> But I <HI>challenge</HI> him to produce the words of <HI>any of</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>A Champion; who would think thou &s;hould&s;t turn a</HI> Judas <HI>and</HI> Runnegado <HI>to thy Friends?</HI></NOTE> <HI>my Friends</HI> that ever &s;aid, <HI>That God and Chri&s;t was in a lo&s;t Condition, and that Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave a lost God.</HI></P>
<P>There remaineth another Citation out of my Book of <HI>Immediate Revelation,</HI> made u&s;e of by <HI>T. H.</HI> not in his <HI>Dialogues,</HI> but in <HI>The Quakers</HI>
<PB N="36" REF="25"> <HI>Appeal An&s;wered:</HI> But &s;urely he could not have fain upon a Place in all my Book that doth more manife&s;tly clear me, and demon&s;trate <HI>T. H.</HI> to be a <HI>vile <HI>Forger,</HI></HI> in alledging on me, that I &s;ay, <HI>Chri&s;t came to &s;eek and &s;ave a Lo&s;t God, a Lo&s;t Chri&s;t:</HI> For none of all the&s;e words cited by him, &s;peak any thing of Chri&s;t, his &s;eeking and &s;aving a Lo&s;t God; but, <HI>That God &s;ent his Son into the World to &s;eek and &s;ave the Work of his own Hands, <HI>that of the pure Creation in Man,</HI> which</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>An odd Expre&s;&s;ion, as thou ha&s;t many, that were never approved by us, as more excep|tionable than any of poor Mechanick Wri|ters; and which by not being read by us, but &s;lid over from</HI> Scotland <HI>into</HI> Holland <HI>were clo&s;ely, and ha&s;tily Printed.</HI></NOTE> <HI>though &s;hu<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> up in Death, yet it remained, and peri&s;hed not, as to its being.</HI> Now I challenge <HI>T. H.</HI> to &s;how me where I, <HI>or any of my Friends,</HI> &s;ay, <HI>That th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> Work of God's own Hands is God,</HI> or <HI>that the pure Crea|tion in Man is God.</HI> It is true, according to the Scrip|ture expre&s;s Terms and way of &s;peaking, we &s;ay, <HI>The Seed is Chri&s;t, and that Chri&s;t doth &s;uffer, and is crucified in &s;ome; and that he is formed, or hath a &s;piritual Formation in his Saints, by which he lives and indwelleth in them; and this &s;piritual Formation of him is called Chri&s;t by way of</HI> Synecdoche, <HI>as being a Member of him; or by way of</HI> Metonymy, <HI>as being that Immediate Principle, in which he dwelleth, and through which he revealeth him&s;elf unto his Saints; who is the E|ternal, the Infinite and &V;ncreated Word and Light, who is God over all, ble&s;&s;ed for ever.</HI> But that ever I, <HI>or any</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>That is, any of the</HI> Quakers <HI>have &s;aid &s;o.</HI></NOTE> <HI>have &s;aid,</HI> that <HI>this Formation</HI>
<PB N="37" REF="25"> <HI>is God him&s;elf,</HI> or <HI>Chri&s;t as he is God,</HI> I put <HI>T. H.</HI> to &s;how it, and if he cannot, he is a <HI>Forger.</HI> And when we &s;ay, <HI>Chri&s;t is crucified or &s;lain in Wicked Men,</HI> let <HI>T. H.</HI> &s;how where we &s;ay, that <HI>Chri&s;t, as in him&s;elf, or as he is God, is or can be crucified or &s;lain in any Man or Men:</HI> This I am &s;ure he cannot produce from any Words of mine; <HI>nor do I think he can from any words of any Man upon Earth, called a</HI> Qua|ker; yea, <HI>T. Hicks</HI> clears me &s;ufficiently of this Charge, by citing my Words, where I &s;ay <HI>(Immed. Revelat.</HI> pag. 77.) <HI>That Chri&s;t, as he is and</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>A Defence for us again&s;t</HI> G. Keith, <HI>and the whole World in o|ther Ca&s;es: For as</HI> T. H. <HI>did not di&s;tin|gui&s;h between Christ and his Manife&s;tation, and inferr'd upon us becau&s;e the Manife&s;ta|tion could be clouded or extingui&s;hed, there|fore Chri&s;t in him&s;elf might; and then &s;ay, we &s;ay, ju&s;t &s;o we are tax'd with denying the Vi&s;ible, becau&s;e we pre&s;s the Invi&s;ible Ap|pearance of Chri&s;t, and becau&s;e we Allegorize Scriptures that have a literal Sen&s;e in them, &s;o that they are true both ways; therefore we deny the literal Sen&s;e, which is fal&s;e.</HI></NOTE> <HI>lives in him&s;elf, being an Eter|nal Incorruptible Life, he can|not be crucified, but in his Ap|pearance he may be.</HI> This cleareth me, that I hold it to be true, that Chri&s;t as God cannot be crucified or &s;lain in Men; and yet the Scrip|ture &s;peaketh in divers places of his being crucified in them, as <HI>Rev.</HI> 9. <HI>Gal.</HI> 3. 1. <HI>Heb.</HI> 6. 6. which therefore mu&s;t be un|der&s;tood in re&s;pect of his Ap|pearance or Manife&s;tation in Men, and not as God, or as in him&s;elf; for to affirm, that <HI>Chri&s;t as he is God, can be crucified or dye,</HI> I hold it one of the greate&s;t of Bla&s;|phemies.</P>
<P>Thus, Reader, having cleared my &s;elf of the
<PB N="38" REF="26"> <HI>Forgeries</HI> of <HI>T. H.</HI> as to this Particular, I refer it to that which is noble, ingenuous and impar|tial in thy Con&s;cience, to judge whether T. H's <HI>Blu&s;h O Heavens, and be A&s;toni&s;hed O Earth,</HI> be be not applicable to him&s;elf for his <HI>&s;o gro&s;ly and impudently Abu&s;ing both me and the World, by his &s;o ba&s;e and</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>What mu&s;t we call this,</HI> George, <HI>&s;ince I hear thou &s;et&s;t up now for mighty &s;oft Words to Adver&s;aries, but I believe thee to have been as good a Man with the&s;e, as thy</HI> &s;mooth <HI>Words to the</HI> World, <HI>and</HI> roughe<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter"> <HI>to thy</HI> Old Friends.</NOTE> <HI>impudent <HI>Forgery.</HI></HI></P>
<P>One thing more I &s;hall take notice of here, and that is <HI>T. H</HI>'s alledging, <HI>That</HI> G. K. <HI>affir|med to him (in the hearing of many credible Witne&s;|&s;es) That the Book intituled,</HI> Imm. Revelat. <HI>was written</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Well</HI> George, <HI>but in good earne&s;t thou ha&s;t &s;aid &s;o, and do&s;t as good as &s;ay &s;o now, in what follows. How will thy</HI> Turners Hall <HI>Congregation of the</HI> 11th <HI>of the</HI> 4th <HI>Month called</HI> June, <HI>reli&s;h this Doctrine, mu&s;t the be&s;t Book thou ever writ&s;t, be expung'd the Cata|logue?</HI></NOTE> <HI>by the Immediate In&s;pi|ration <HI>of the Spirit of God</HI></HI> But to what purpo&s;e <HI>T. H.</HI> produceth this here <HI>(grant|ing that I had &s;aid the&s;e Words)</HI> is evident, to wit, <HI>That he may ca&s;t an</HI> Odium <HI>upon me,</HI> it being a great Crime in his E&s;teem, for any Man in the&s;e days to pretend to the <HI>Im|mediate In&s;piration <HI>of the Spirit of God.</HI></HI> But <HI>T. H.</HI> may in this be di&s;appointed, as in other his <HI>ba&s;e De&s;igns:</HI> However, he doth clear him|&s;elf (to give him his due) &s;ufficiently, as to this Matter, to wit, That he is not guilty of the lea&s;t Pretence to the <HI>In&s;piration</HI> (or In|breathing) of the Spirit of God, which <HI>In&s;pi|ration</HI>
<PB N="39" REF="26"> <HI>of the Almighty giveth &V;nder&s;tanding,</HI> as the Scripture &s;aith expre&s;ly; and he who &s;peaks or writes of the things of God without <HI>In&s;pira|tion,</HI> he doth it without a true and right Under|&s;tanding, as is manife&s;t in the <HI>Scribling of this <HI>Forger</HI> T. H.</HI> And &s;urely he that writeth <HI>Lyes, Per|ver&s;ions,</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">George <HI>thou art warm, but I accu&s;e thee not, for I think he de|&s;erved that at lea&s;t, and thou a great deal more, though not my part at this time to give it thee.</HI></NOTE> <HI>Forgeries</HI> and <HI>Slanders</HI> again&s;t any Man or Men, it is ea&s;ie to deter|mine <HI>what Spirit</HI> hath in&s;pired him &s;o to do, even the <HI>Spirit</HI> of <HI>him who was a <HI>Lyar</HI> and <HI>Murderer</HI> from the beginning.</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Now</HI> George <HI>thou touche&s;t upon the true &s;tring O had&s;t thou kept here, thou had&s;t been an Happy Man. This I truly believe, made&s;t thee at fir&s;t a</HI> Quaker, <HI>and then how beautiful was the way we walked in, and</HI> their very Feet <HI>that brought Glad-Ty|dings to thy Soul. How humble, low and little wa&s;t thou in</HI> thine own Eyes? <HI>How honouring and preferring of</HI> poor illiterate <HI>Men? How deba&s;ing and underva|luing of thy</HI> Accademical <HI>Education? Then the</HI> Tongues <HI>and</HI> Philo&s;ophy <HI>were not worthy to untie the Shooes Latchets of the Living (though homely) Preachers among the Poor mi&s;under|&s;tood, and therefore mi&s;repre&s;ented</HI> Quakers. <HI>But we is me! thou art fallen, thou art degenerated; vain Wi&s;dom, Pride and Pa&s;&s;ion have beguiled and bewildred thee; and now thou art be|come a Cage for every unclean Bird; thou canst receive any Joque and Je&s;t, and be merry with any, confederate with any, again&s;t thy old and once honoured and much valued Friends, and that Fellow&s;hip which &s;tands in that Life which made thy Soul</HI> alive to God. <HI>O that thou may&s;t return and find &s;pace to re|pent; for at this Door thou mu&s;t come in again, or never &s;ee the Face of God with Joy.</HI></NOTE> <HI>And as to the <HI>In&s;piration</HI> of the ble&s;&s;ed Spirit of God, it is that by which my Soul was fir&s;t made alive unto God, and by which it is pre&s;erved alive unto this Day, to &s;erve him, and give Honour and Glory to his Name: And by the &s;ame did I receive a true &V;nder&s;tanding from God of what I did write in that Book, and had his Di|rection therein,</HI> in &s;ome mea|&s;ure; which <HI>In&s;piration of the</HI>
<PB N="40" REF="27"> <HI>Spirit</HI> I do not appropriate to my &s;elf; <HI>for I know that it is given in the &s;everal Mea&s;ures of it, accor|ding to the good Plea&s;ure of God, to every true <HI>Chri|&s;tian;</HI> and every true <HI>Mini&s;ter of Chri&s;t</HI> hath it to lead him and direct him what to Say, Preach and Write, for the Service of others;</HI> and they who have it not, and believe not &s;uch a thing, but deny it, and are Enemies to it, I te&s;tifie for God, <HI>they are neither true <HI>Mini&s;ters of Chri&s;t,</HI> nor true <HI>Chri&s;tians:</HI></HI> I remember a good &s;aying of <HI>Bernard,</HI> concerning the Nece&s;&s;ity of <HI>In&s;piration unto Prayer;</HI> Tepida e&s;t omnis oratio, quam non pervenit in&s;piratio, <HI>i. e. All Prayer is Lukewarm, which doth not proceed from In&s;piration.</HI> And &s;aid <HI>Augu&s;tine,</HI> Tractat. Ep. <HI>John</HI> 3. <HI>There is an <HI>in|ward</HI> Ma&s;ter, who teacheth; <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> teacheth; his <HI>In&s;piration</HI> teacheth; <HI>where his In&s;pirati|on and his Unction is not, the Words out|wardly make a Noi&s;e in vain.</HI></HI> Many other Places could I cite, both out of Scripture and Antiquity, concerning the <HI>Nece&s;&s;ity</HI> of the <HI>In|&s;piration of God</HI> to be with his People in all Ages. But when we &s;peak of the <HI>In&s;pirations of God,</HI> that are given to us of God in our waiting upon him, and by which we are <HI>directed</HI> and <HI>helped what to Speak, or Pray, or Write,</HI> we do not hereby <HI>Equal</HI> our Selves, our Writings or Labours un|to the Apo&s;tles, and their Labours and Wri|tings: But a Mea&s;ure of the &s;ame Spirit we
<PB N="41" REF="27"> have received, which they had, which Spirit is one, and it is not idle, or without Operation in them who receive it; and its Operation is, to breathe (or in&s;pire) Life, Light, Power, Vertue, Holine&s;s and Righteou&s;ne&s;s, Wi&s;dom and Knowledge in them who attend unto the &s;ame.</P>
<P>Thus having cleared my &s;elf of the weightie&s;t Abu&s;e of <HI>T. H.</HI> I proceed to give the <HI>Reader</HI> a &s;mall Hint at other two or three Particulars, which are al&s;o very abu&s;ive and gro&s;s: One is that becau&s;e I &s;ay in my Book of <HI>Immed. Revel.</HI> pag. 4. <Q REND="margQuotes">That there is a Nece&s;&s;ity for the&s;e under the New Covenant-Di&s;pen&s;ation to have things revealed unto them from the Lord (that are not E&s;&s;entials of the <HI>Chri&s;tian</HI> Reli|gion, but things relating to our Conver&s;ati|on in the World, &s;ee pag 3.) 'Which are not to be found in Scripture particularly, not &s;o much as by Con&s;equence:</Q> <HI>T. H.</HI> brings in the&s;e Words as a Proof, <HI>That according to the</HI> Quakers <HI>Principle they may excu&s;e the Payment of a Ju&s;t Debt, under Pretence it is not revealed unto them.</HI> Contin. Dial. pag. 69. But &s;urely had not <HI>Impudence come to a wonderful Exce&s;s in T. H.</HI> he could never have committed &s;uch a gro&s;s Abu&s;e on my Words, which are &s;o far from giving the lea&s;t &s;eeming Colour for a Ground to build his <HI>Forgery</HI> on, that in the &s;ame place I expre&s;ly &s;ay, pag. 4. <Q REND="margQuotes">That the Spirit of the Lord never can nor doth com|mand us to do things which are intrin&s;ically, or in their own Nature Evil, or contrary to the Scripture:</Q> But refu&s;ing to pay a ju&s;t Debt
<PB N="42" REF="28"> is contrary to the Scripture; As al&s;o, it is par|ticularly found in the Scripture, that we owe nothing to any Man but Love; therefore we &s;hould pay our Debts: This Con&s;equence is clear, and therefore none but &s;uch a <HI>wretch<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">d <HI>Forger</HI></HI> as <HI>T. H.</HI> could have ca&s;t &s;uch a groundle&s;s Calumny on my innocent Words. And like unto this is that other mentioned by <HI>T. H.</HI> of a <HI>Wo|man's ca&s;ting off her relation unto her Husband, as warranted by our Principle, and my words before|cited,</HI> Contin. Dialog. p. 62. But that no &s;uch thing is to be done, is particularly to be found in Scripture, and therefore <HI>T. H.</HI> is an <HI>abu&s;ive <HI>Forger</HI> and <HI>Perverter.</HI></HI> Another Abu&s;e of <HI>T. H.</HI> again&s;t me is, that he doth quote me as a Proof, <HI>That the Seed of God only in Man is taught, and nothing el&s;e,</HI> Contin. Dialog. pag. 66. Al&s;o, <HI>That God preacheth to him&s;elf, and is obeyed only by him&s;elf,</HI> Contin. Dialog. pag. 84. His alledged Proof is, that I &s;ay, <Q REND="margQuotes">The Great Work of the Mini&s;try is, to point the Hearers to this (that is, the <HI>Seed)</HI> in them.</Q> Now let any of the weake&s;t Capacity judge, if there be any thing in the&s;e words, giving the lea&s;t Colour of Proof, that either the Seed only in Man is taught, or that God preacheth to him&s;elf: Sure|ly, a <HI>Blu&s;h O Heavens, and be a&s;toni&s;hed O Earth,</HI> may very de&s;ervedly be given at the <HI>Wickedne&s;s</HI> of <HI>T. H.</HI> for <HI>his &s;o gro&s;s <HI>Perver&s;ion:</HI></HI> Who <HI>but one of the mo&s;t wretched Impudence</HI> would draw &s;uch a Conclu&s;ion? <HI>The Work of the Mini&s;ters was, to point and direct the Hearers to the</HI> Seed <HI>in them, and to</HI> Chri&s;t <HI>in them, and</HI> God <HI>in them; Therefore only</HI> the Seed in them, and only God
<PB N="43" REF="28"> and Chri&s;t in them <HI>is Taught?</HI> whereas the plain contrary doth follow, <HI>viz.</HI> That <HI>God</HI> and <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> in that pure and divine Seed in Men is the <HI>Teach|er,</HI> and not the Taught; <HI>and this is the very Aim and De&s;ign</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>That mu&s;t be a good Book in my Judgment, but what &s;ayst thou now upon thy new To|picks? What will other</HI> Sincere Chri&s;tians <HI>&s;ay? Thy new A&s;&s;oci|ates and Abettors? Will this pa&s;s with them for Current Coyn or not? If this will not pa&s;s mu&s;ter with thee, thou art depra|ved; and if it will, thou wilt not pa&s;s with them, or they mu&s;t turn</HI> Quakers <HI>too.</HI></NOTE> <HI>of my Book, that <HI>God and Chri&s;t is the Immediate Teacher of his People in their Hearts.</HI></HI> Another of his Abu&s;es is, That becau&s;e I &s;ay, <Q REND="margQuotes"><HI>Je&s;us Chri&s;t</HI> is both the <HI>Seeds-man,</HI> the <HI>Seed,</HI> and al|&s;o the Precious Fruit;</Q> he alledgeth on me, that I &s;ay, <HI>The Work of Sanctification in us, is Chri&s;t him&s;elf,</HI> Contin. Dialog. pag. 57. Now when I &s;ay, Chri&s;t Je&s;us is the Fruit, I &s;peak according to plain Scripture, which &s;peaketh of <HI>Chri&s;t formed in the Saints;</HI> &s;o Chri&s;t formed in the Saints is the precious <HI>Fruit</HI> or <HI>Product,</HI> which he him&s;elf, as he is that Eternal and Divine Word, bringeth forth in them: But the Work of <HI>Sanctification,</HI> is the <HI>Effect</HI> of Chri&s;t thus for|med, and not <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> him&s;elf, unle&s;s we &s;peak <HI>m<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="MURP" EXTENT="1 letter">tonymically,</HI> as when the Cau&s;e is &s;ometimes called by the Name of the Effect; as, when <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aid, <HI>That he,</HI> to wit, Chri&s;t, <HI>is made unto us Wi&s;dom, Righteou&s;ne&s;s, Sanctification,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
<P>Thus, <HI>Reader,</HI> having briefly cleared my &s;elf of <HI>T. H.</HI> his <HI>Forgeries</HI> and <HI>Abu&s;es,</HI> unju&s;tly put upon me, I &s;hall conclude with giving thee a &s;mall Hint, to let thee &s;ee, that notwith&s;tanding
<PB N="44" REF="29"> <HI>T. H</HI>'s Pretence &s;o much to <HI>Logick,</HI> how weak he is therein, and that is, his Illogical and Un|rea&s;onable Conclu&s;ion, that becau&s;e <HI>G. F.</HI> &s;aith [A Man by the Spirit may di&s;cern where the Seed is in Death, and where it is not in Death; and where the Soul is living, and where it is in Death] From this <HI>Thomas Hicks</HI> infers, <HI>That, according to</HI> G. F. <HI>there is no Di&s;tinction betwixt the Seed and the Soul, but the Seed is the Soul: Ob|&s;erve,</HI> &s;aith <HI>T. H. he &s;peaks the &s;ame of the Seed, he doth of the Soul.</HI> Now let us prove this &s;ort of <HI>T. H</HI>'s <HI>Logick,</HI> and by the very &s;ame way of Rea&s;oning we may prove <HI>Thomas Hicks</HI> to be an <HI>A&s;s</HI> or a <HI>Hor&s;e:</HI> as thus, <HI>An A&s;s or a Hor&s;e is a Living Creature, but Mortal, <HI>and</HI></HI> T. H. <HI>is a Living Creature, but Mortal; an</HI> A&s;s <HI>hath a Head, a No&s;e, Face and Ears, and &s;o hath</HI> T. Hicks, <HI>an</HI> A&s;s <HI>can Eat, Drink, Sleep, and &s;o can</HI> T. Hicks; here I &s;peak the &s;ame of an <HI>A&s;s</HI> that I do of <HI>T. H.</HI> and &s;o I may do of an <HI>Hor&s;e,</HI> a <HI>Load,</HI> a <HI>Viper,</HI> a <HI>Dog,</HI> a <HI>Rat;</HI> the Conclu&s;ion therefore is, according to <HI>T. H</HI>'s <HI>Logick,</HI> that <HI>T. Hicks</HI> is an <HI>A&s;s,</HI> a <HI>Hor&s;e,</HI> &amp;c. But true <HI>Logick,</HI> and indeed true Under&s;tanding as we are Men, teacheth us, That it is not the Agreement of &s;ome, but of all e&s;&s;ential or ne|ce&s;&s;ary Attributes, that make Two to be one and the &s;ame Thing. Now though &s;ome things may be &s;aid in common, both of the <HI>Soul</HI> and the <HI>Seed;</HI> yet other things cannot: As, the <HI>Soul</HI> is <HI>Corruptible,</HI> can and doth Sin; but the <HI>Seed of God</HI> is <HI>Incorruptible,</HI> &s;inneth not, nor can Sin; therefore the one is not the other. But that the <HI>Seed</HI> is burthened, or <HI>laden as a Cart with</HI>
<PB N="45" REF="29"> <HI>Sheaves,</HI> by the Sinner, will not prove, <HI>That the Seed can Sin;</HI> for <HI>Chri&s;t Je&s;us bore our Sins,</HI> and they were a Load and Burthen upon him, who yet &s;inned not, nor ever could Sin.</P>
<P>Another In&s;tance I &s;hall give of his Weakne&s;s and Shallowne&s;s in another of his Rea&s;onings a|gain&s;t <HI>G. F.</HI> as where he thus rea&s;oneth <HI>pag.</HI> 21. Dial. 3. <HI>But if every &s;piritual Sub&s;tance be Infinite in it &s;elf (as</HI> Fox <HI>concludeth) then either there are no Angels, or Angels are no &s;piritual Sub|&s;tances; or if they be &s;piritual Sub&s;tances, they are no Creatures, but Infinite in them&s;elves; and con|&s;equently, as many Angels as there are, &s;o many Gods there mu&s;t be.</HI></P>
<P>But note, <HI>Reader,</HI> G. F. &s;poke but of a <HI>&s;pi|ritual Substance</HI> in the <HI>&s;ingular Number;</HI> Now if <HI>G. F.</HI> or any other &s;hould affirm, that <HI>nothing is purely a Spirit</HI> or <HI>&s;piritual Sub&s;tance,</HI> properly, and &s;trictly &s;o con&s;ider'd, &s;imple, and without all Compo&s;ition of Body, but <HI>God only,</HI> what hath <HI>T. Hicks</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Though this be Phi|lo&s;ophically true, and</HI> G. F. <HI>&s;o far defen|ded; yet</HI> G. F's <HI>mean|ing was by Infinite, that which is oppo&s;ite to Fi|nite, or what ends. So that he intended by Infinite, in that Place no more than Eternal, which may be &s;aid of Angels and Souls of Men, for they live for ever.</HI></NOTE> to &s;ay again&s;t it? why, then it will follow, that an An|gel is not a &s;piritual Sub|&s;tance. Well! But how will he prove, that <HI>an Angel is a &s;piritual Sub&s;tance</HI> (I &s;ay, &s;trictly and properly con&s;i|der'd) that is to &s;ay, <HI>That an</HI> Angel <HI>hath no &s;ort of Body or Corporeity; but is altogether</HI> Spirit, <HI>without all &s;ort of Bo|dy, however &s;ubtil or &s;piritual?</HI>
<PB N="46" REF="30"> Surely, many Learned and Pious Men, both Ancient and Modern, hold that <HI>Angels and Souls of Men have &s;ome &s;ubtil or <HI>&s;piritual Body;</HI> and &s;o are not altogether &s;imple, uncompounded Be|ings, but con&s;i&s;ting of Spirit and Body.</HI> But the&s;e Contemplations (I confe&s;s) are too high for <HI>T. Hicks</HI>'s weak and &s;hallow Brain.</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>George Keith.</SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
<TRAILER>THE END.</TRAILER>
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