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<DATE>2014-04-09</DATE>
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<NAME>Brian Matzge</NAME>
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<TEXT LANG="eng">
<FRONT>
<DIV1 TYPE="title page">
<PB REF="1">
<PB REF="1">
<P> The SEVERAL DEBATES OF THE Hou&s;e of Commons, In the Reign of the <HI>Late King Iames</HI> II.</P>
<P><HI>Pro &amp; Contra;</HI> Relating to the E&s;tabli&s;hment of the Militia, Disbanding the New Rai&s;ed Forces, and Rai&s;ing a pre&s;ent Supply for <HI>His Maje&s;ty.</HI></P>
<P>BEGINNING The Ninth of <HI>November,</HI> 1685; and Ending the Twentieth Day of the &s;ame Month; being the Day of the Prorogation of the Parliament.</P>
<P><HI>LONDON:</HI> Printed in the Year, 1697.</P>
<PB REF="2" MS="y">
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="to the reader">
<PB REF="2">
<HEAD>THE PREFACE TO THE READER.</HEAD>
<P>THE Arguments that have of late been &s;o rife, for, and again&s;t a Standing-Army, giving me Occa&s;ion, to enquire a little into the Proceed|ings of former Times, in relation to &s;o weighty an Affair; I have thought it would not have been unac|ceptable to the World, to give the Sence of a Parlia|ment in that Ca&s;e: For if there has been &s;o much Defe|rence had to the Opinion of particular Per&s;ons, upon &s;uch an Occa&s;ion, how much more &s;hould we have to that of <HI>the Great Council of the Nation,</HI> which we now pre|&s;ent you with; and which, tho' it was always thought, to have been one not over legally con&s;tituted; the then King <HI>James</HI> the Second, having the Charters of mo&s;t of
<PB REF="3"> the Corporations of <HI>England</HI> at his Devotion; yet you may hereby ob&s;erve, that notwith&s;tanding all the Me|thods that had been u&s;ed, to debauch Mens Principles, as well as their Manners, in the preceding Reign; yet there was a great deal of the <HI>free Engli&s;h Spirit</HI> &s;till remaining, which would be neither pam'd with delu&s;ive Promi&s;es, nor frighten'd with big Words, out of the Li|berty tran&s;mitted to them, with &s;o much Expence of Blood and Trea&s;ure, by their glorious Ance&s;tors, and which they were re&s;olv'd to leave entire to &s;ucceeding Ge|nerations.</P>
</DIV1>
</FRONT>
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="text">
<PB N="1" REF="3">
<HEAD>The SEVERAL DEBATES OF THE Hou&s;e of Commons, <HI>Pro &amp; Contra.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV2 TYPE="day">
<HEAD><HI>Lunae</HI> 9. <HI>die Novembris.</HI></HEAD>
<P>BOTH Hou&s;es of Parliament, pur&s;uant to the la&s;t Adjournment, His Maje&s;ty being &s;eated in his Royal Throne, in the Hou&s;e of Peers, commanded the Gentleman U&s;her of the Black Rod, to give Notice to the Hou&s;e of Com|mons, that they immediately attend His Maje&s;ty in the Hou&s;e of Peers Where being come, His Maje&s;ty was plea&s;ed to make a mo&s;t Gracious Speech to both Hou&s;es of Parliament.</P>
<P>After which, the Hou&s;e of Commons returned to their own Hou&s;e, and Mr. Speaker reported His Maje&s;ty's Speech to the Hou&s;e, which being read at the Clerk's Table, is as followeth.</P>
<Q><PB N="2" REF="4">
<P><HI>My Lords and Gentlemen,</HI></P>
<P>AFter the Storm that &s;eemed to be coming up|on Us, when we parted la&s;t, I am glad to meet you all again in &s;o great Peace and Quiet|ne&s;s; God Almighty be prai&s;ed, by who&s;e Ble&s;|&s;ing that Rebellion was &s;uppre&s;&s;ed: But when I reflect what an incon&s;iderable number of Men be|gun it, and how long they carried it on without any oppo&s;ition, I hope every body will be con|vinced, that the Militia, which have hitherto been &s;o much depended on, is not &s;ufficient for &s;uch Occa&s;ions, and that there is nothing but a good Force of well di&s;ciplined Troops in con&s;tant Pay that can defend us, from &s;uch as either at Home or Abroad, are di&s;po&s;ed to di&s;turb us; and in truth, my concern for the Peace and Quiet of my Subjects, as well as for the Safety of the Govern|ment, made me think it nece&s;&s;ary, to increa&s;e the num|ber to the proportion I have done, that I owed as well to the Honour, as the Security of the Nati|on, who&s;e Reputation was &s;o infinitely expo&s;ed to all our Neighbours, by having lain open to this late wretched Attempt, that it is not to be repair|ed without keeping &s;uch a body of Men on foot, that none may ever have a thought of finding us again, &s;o mi&s;erably unprovided: It is for the &s;up|port of this great Charge, which is now more than double to what it was; that I ask your a&s;&s;i&s;tance in giving me a Supply an&s;werable to the Expences it brings along with it; and I cannot doubt, but what I have begun &s;o much to the Honour and Defence of the Government,
<PB N="3" REF="4"> will be continued by you with all the chearfulne&s;s and readine&s;s that is requi&s;ite for a Work of &s;o great Importance. Let no Man take Exception, that there are &s;ome Officers in the Army not qua|lified according to the late Te&s;ts, for their Im|ployment: The Gentlemen, I mu&s;t tell you, are are mo&s;t of them well known to me, and having formerly &s;erved me on &s;everal Occa&s;ions, and al|ways approved the Loyalty of their Principles by their Practices; I think them now fit to be employed under me, and will deal plainly with you, that after having had the benefit of their Services in &s;uch a time of Need and Danger, I will neither expo&s;e them to Di&s;grace, nor my Self to the want of them, if there &s;hould be another Re|bellion to make them nece&s;&s;ary to Me.</P>
<P>I am afraid, &s;ome Men may be &s;o Wicked, to hope, and expect, that a Difference may happen between You and Me, upon this Occa&s;ion; but when you con&s;ider what Advantages have ri&s;en to us in a few Months, by the good under&s;tanding, we have hitherto had, what wonderful Effects it hath already produced in the change of the whole Scene of Affairs abroad, &s;o much more to the Honour of the Nation, and the Figure it ought to make in the World, and that nothing can hin|der a further Progre&s;s in this way to all our &s;atis|factions, but Fears and Jealou&s;ies among&s;t our &s;elves. I will not apprehend, that &s;uch a misfor|tune can befall us as a Divi&s;ion, or but a Coldne&s;s between You and Us; nor that any thing can &s;hake you, in your Steadine&s;s and Loyalty to Me, who by God's Ble&s;&s;ing, will ever make you re|turns
<PB N="4" REF="5"> of Kindne&s;s and Protection, with a Re&s;olu|tion to venture, even my own Life, in the De|fence of the true Intere&s;t of this Kingdom.</P></Q>
<P>The Earl of <HI>Middleton,</HI> a Member of the Hou&s;e of Commons, and one of His Maje&s;ty's Principal Secretaries of State, moved, That the Hou&s;e would immediately return their Thanks to his Maje&s;ty, for his mo&s;t Gracious Speech, and al&s;o proceed to the Con&s;ideration of an&s;wering the ends therein menti|oned.</P>
<P>After &s;ome Debate, it was re&s;olved, That the Hou&s;e re&s;olve it &s;elf into a Committee of the whole Hou&s;e, on <HI>Thur&s;day</HI> Morning next at Ten of the Clock, to take into Con&s;ideration, His Maje&s;ty's Speech: And the Hou&s;e Adjourned till <HI>Thur&s;day</HI> the <HI>12th.</HI> In&s;tant, Ten a Clock in the Morning.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="day">
<HEAD><HI>Jovis</HI> 12. <HI>die Novembis.</HI> 1685.</HEAD>
<P>The Hou&s;e re&s;olved it &s;elf into a Committee of the whole Hou&s;e, to take into Con&s;ideration His Maje&s;ty's Speech.</P>
<P><HI>Mr. Sollicitor in the Chair.</HI></P>
<P>The King's Speech was Read.</P>
<P>The Lord <HI>Middleton</HI> moved to have it Con&s;idered by Paragraphs.</P>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir W. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Some other than the Militia is nece&s;|&s;ary to be found, and moved a Supply for the Army.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ld. P.</SPEAKER>
<P>We have lately had an unfortunate Proof, how little we are to depend upon the Militia, and therefore fure we mu&s;t all approve of His Maje&s;ty's
<PB N="5" REF="5"> increa&s;ing the Forces to what they are. <HI>France</HI> is formidable, now <HI>Holland</HI>'s Forces are greatly increa|&s;ed, and we mu&s;t be &s;trong in proportion, for pre|&s;ervation of our &s;elves and <HI>Flanders,</HI> and toward that, the good Harmony 'twixt the King and this Hou&s;e hath greatly contributed. It has had two o|ther great Effects abroad.</P>
<P N="1">1. The <HI>French</HI> King's Army la&s;t Spring was march|ing towards <HI>Germany; Crequey</HI> was far advanced, but when the King of <HI>France</HI> heard the kindne&s;s of this Hou&s;e to the King, and the Defeat of <HI>Monmouth,</HI> he recalled them.</P>
<P N="2">2. The <HI>French</HI> and <HI>Spaniard</HI> had al&s;o a difference about <HI>Hay</HI> and <HI>Fonttereabeau:</HI> The <HI>French</HI> advanced their Troops, and recalled them on this News.</P>
<P>This is the noble Effect of the Harmony between the King and this Hou&s;e, who have (I hope) brought the &s;ame Heart and Loyalty, they had the la&s;t time here.</P>
<P>Hence we may conclude, the&s;e Levies made by the King are Ju&s;t, Rea&s;onable, and Nece&s;&s;ary. And &s;o let us Vote a Supply, to an&s;wer His Maje&s;ty's pre|&s;ent Occa&s;ions.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ld. <HI>R.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>The Que&s;tion is, whether a Supply or not. I do not intend to Arraign the Militia, but &s;eeing a Soldier is a Trade, and mu&s;t (as all other Trades are) be learned, I'le &s;hew you where the Militia has failed, <HI>viz.</HI> At <HI>Chatham,</HI> and in <HI>June</HI> la&s;t, when the late Duke of <HI>Monmouth</HI> Landed, and had but 83 Men, and 300 <HI>l.</HI> in Money, who in &s;pight of the Militia, nay, in &s;pight of &s;uch other Force as the King could &s;pare hence, brought it &s;o far as he did.</P>
<PB N="6" REF="6">
<P> If the King of <HI>France</HI> had Landed then, what would have become of us? I &s;ay, the Militia is not in&s;ignificant, but an additional Force is nece&s;&s;ary, and &s;o a Supply that is an&s;werable to it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>T. C.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>If it &s;hall appear to you, that the King's Revenue he hath already, be &s;ufficient to &s;upply all his Occa&s;ions, what then need we give him more.</P>
<P>'Tis moved we &s;hould proceed by Paragraph.</P>
<P>To come fir&s;t to the Militia, who (let me tell you) did con&s;iderable Service in the late Rebellion, and if a great Noble-man of this Kingdom had been &s;upplied and a&s;&s;i&s;ted, it had &s;oon been quelled.</P>
<P>A Confidence 'twixt the King and his People is ab&s;olutely needful, let it come whence it will, our Happine&s;s con&s;i&s;ts in it.</P>
<P>His Maje&s;ty, on his fir&s;t entrance on the Crown, told us, He had been mi&s;-repre&s;ented, and that he would pre&s;erve the Government in Church and State now E&s;tabli&s;hed by Law, and to maintain us in all our ju&s;t Rights and Priviledges.</P>
<P>Over-joyed at this, we run ha&s;tily in to him, we gave four Millions (reckoning what we added to him for Life was worth) at once.</P>
<P>The pre&s;ent Revenue is 1900000 <HI>l.</HI> or two Milli|ons yearly; the Charge of the Government (admit|ting this Army kept up) is but 1300000 <HI>l.</HI> yearly: And pray let us not forget that there was a Bill of Exclu&s;ion debated in this Hou&s;e; I was here, and &s;hewed my &s;elf again&s;t it; the Arguments for it were, that we &s;hould, in ca&s;e of a Popi&s;h Succe&s;&s;or, have a Popi&s;h Army.</P>
<PB N="7" REF="6">
<P> You &s;ee the Act of the Te&s;t already broken, but pray remember what the late Lord Chancellor told you, when the late King (of Ble&s;&s;ed Memory) pa&s;t that Act, (the words were to this Effect.) <HI>By this Act you are provided again&s;t Popery, that no Pa|pi&s;t can po&s;&s;ibly creep into any Employment.</HI> I am afflicted greatly at this Breach of our Liberties, and &s;eeing &s;o great difference betwixt this Speech, and tho&s;e theretofore made, cannot but believe this was by &s;ome others Advice.</P>
<P>This &s;truck at here, is our All, and I wonder there have been any Men &s;o de&s;perate, as to take any Employment not qualified for it, and would have therefore the Que&s;tion, that a &s;tanding Army is de&s;tructive to the Country.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>J. E.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>The number of the &s;tanding Forces is about 14 or 15000 Men, and they were about half &s;o many before, and I conceive we are not &s;afe without the&s;e Forces to aid and help the Mi|litia. I am not for laying the Militia a&s;ide, but I &s;ay, there is a nece&s;&s;ity for a &s;tanding Force.</P>
<P>Half the Charge of tho&s;e Forces is about 300000 <HI>l.</HI> Yearly, the whole being 600000 <HI>l.</HI> Yearly, I con|ceive is all we need to give for it, of that there remains 200000 <HI>l.</HI> unreceived of the 400000 <HI>l.</HI> gi|ven la&s;t, &s;o the 200000 <HI>l.</HI> may go towatds it, and the re&s;t may be &s;upplied by a Tax on Commo|dities; as for balancing of Trade, may better be charged than not. I am for a Supply.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>H. C.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;tand up for, and would not have the Militia reflected on, it was very u&s;eful in the
<PB N="8" REF="7"> late Rebellion of <HI>Monmouth,</HI> it kept him from <HI>Bri|&s;tol</HI> and <HI>Exeter;</HI> and is as good as any Army we can rai&s;e again&s;t any at home.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. <HI>C.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>I am for vindicating the Militia. The ju&s;t cau&s;e for a Supply, and would give it, and to Reward the Officers not qualified, or take them off &s;ome other way.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. <HI>A.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>I dread a &s;tanding Army, but am for a Supply.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. <HI>W.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>Kings in old time u&s;ed to &s;end, not on|ly an account of their Revenues, but of the Charge they were going to be at, to the Parliament, when they demanded Aids. <HI>Henry</HI> the Fifth had but 56000 <HI>l.</HI> and Queen <HI>Elizabeth</HI> had 160000 and odd pounds Yearly. I am for for a Bill for making the Militia u&s;eful, and would know if we give Money thus, it be not for &s;etting up a &s;tanding Army. I am for good Guards.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>W. T.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>The Kingdom is guarded by Law; we are now in perfect Peace; the King is both fear|ed and loved, an Army little needed; Men ju&s;tly afraid: That which made the la&s;t Rebellion as it was, the Man that headed it, was a Favourite of the Faction, and though he had got &s;uch a number, he was beaten by 1800 Men only. I am again&s;t an Army.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. <HI>S.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>This la&s;t Rebellion has contributed to our future Peace, and tho&s;e engaged in it have &s;ung their Penitential P&s;alm, and their Puni&s;h|ment rejoyced at by all good Per&s;ons. I do not commend the Militia, yet it is not to be rejected,
<PB N="9" REF="7"> but to be new modelled; and for my part, I had ra|ther pay double to the&s;e, (meaning for keeping up the Militia) from whom I fear nothing, than half &s;o much to tho&s;e, of whom I mu&s;t ever be afraid; and &s;ay what you will, 'tis a Standing-Army.</P>
<P>The la&s;t Force pre&s;erved the Peace, and was &s;uffi|cient to do it in the late King's Time, and is now; all the Profit and Security of this Nation, is in our Ships; and had there been the lea&s;t Ship in the Chan|nel, it would have di&s;appointed him.</P>
<P>Supporting an Army, is maintaining &s;o many idle Per&s;ons to Lord it over the re&s;t of the Subjects.</P>
<P>The King declared, no Soldiers &s;hould Quarter in Private Hou&s;es; but that they did: That they &s;hould pay for all Things they took; but they paid nothing for almo&s;t all they took.</P>
<P>And for Officers employed not taking the Te&s;ts, is di&s;pen&s;ing with all the Laws at once; and if the&s;e Men be good and kind, we know not whether it pro|ceeds from their Genero&s;ity, or Principles: For we mu&s;t remember, 'tis Trea&s;on for any Man to be re|conciled to the Church of <HI>Rome;</HI> for the Pope, by Law, is declared Enemy to this Kingdom.</P>
<P>A Supply given, as moved for, is a kind of an e&s;tabli&s;hing an Army by Act of Parliament; and when they have got the Power into their Hands, we are then to derive it from their Courte&s;ie; and there|fore I would have the Que&s;tion be,</P>
<P>That the Safety of the Kingdom doth not con&s;i&s;t with a Standing Force; And this it may be will di&s;|appoint the&s;e Per&s;ons, that make it their Bu&s;ine&s;s this way, to make them&s;elves u&s;eful.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="10" REF="8">
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>T. C.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>then moved an Addre&s;s.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>Tho. M.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>I am fir&s;t for a Supply; that hinders not an Addre&s;s: His Maje&s;ty, in his Speech, only &s;ays, <HI>That the Militia's not &s;ufficient.</HI></P>
<P>The late Long Parliament always owned &s;ome Force nece&s;&s;ary: We are not to name the Number, the King is be&s;t Judge of that; a great Soldier, and a good Prince.</P>
<P>For I hear the Number is 14 or 15000; and I am for a Supply, and never &s;aw, but Money was always one part of the Bus'ne&s;s of every Parliament.</P>
<P>There was a bitter Spirit in the three la&s;t Parlia|ments, not yet well allay'd; and &s;o I conclude, a con&s;iderable Force needful, be&s;ides the Militia. I call tho&s;e rai&s;ed Guards, and would have a Supply given to &s;upport His Maje&s;ty's Extraordinary Oc|ca&s;ions.</P>
<P>The Navy wants 6 or 800000 <HI>l.</HI> and I would give any Rea&s;on for it; &s;o a Supply may, without a Nega|tive, be given.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Serj. <HI>M.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>There is already a Law, That no Man &s;hall, on any Occa&s;ion what&s;oever, ri&s;e again&s;t the King: Lords, and Deputy-Lieutenants, have Power to Di&s;arm the Di&s;affected: If you give thus a Supply, it is for an Army; and then, may not this Army be made of tho&s;e that will not take the Te&s;t: Which Act was not de&s;igned a Puni&s;hment for the Papi&s;ts, but a Protection for our &s;elves; and giving this Money, is for an Army: I am again&s;t it.</P>
<PB N="11" REF="8">
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>R. T.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>I mu&s;t concur with the King, That the Militia is not &s;ufficient: I am for mending the Mi|litia, and to make it &s;uch as the King and Kingdom may confide in it: To tru&s;t to Mercenary Force alone, is to give up all our Liberties at once.</P>
<P>If you provide a con&s;tant Supply to &s;upport them, by &s;etting up an Army, Sir <HI>Thomas Meers</HI> has turned it into a Supply for the Navy.</P>
<P>There is no Country in the World, has a Law to &s;et up an Army; we have already made an ample Supply for the Government. 'Tis for Kings to come to the Hou&s;e, from Time to Time, on Extraordinary Occa&s;ions; and if this Army be provided for by Law, they will never more come to this Hou&s;e.</P>
<P>I am for giving for the Extraordinary Charge pa&s;t. Armies are u&s;eful, when Occa&s;ion is for them; but if you E&s;tabli&s;h them, you can Disband them no more.</P>
<P>I am for a Supply, but not on this Score of the Mi|litia: There was not a Company formed 'till 1588; and as &s;oon as Queen <HI>Elizabeth</HI> had done with her Army, &s;he Disbanded it. Armies have been fatal of|ten to Princes. The Army, in the late King's Time, often turned out their Leaders. I am for going to the Hou&s;e, for leave, for a Bill to mend the Militia.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>W. C.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>The Beef-Eaters, at this rate, may be called an Army.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>T. H.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>The Colonel may &s;ay what he will of the Beef-Eaters, as he Nick-names them; but they are e&s;tabli&s;h'd by Act of Parliament.</P>
<PB N="12" REF="9">
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. <HI>S.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>I can make out, that the King's Revenue is &s;ufficient, to maintain the Force on foot.</P>
</SP>
<DIV3 TYPE="question">
<HEAD><HI>The Que&s;tion:</HI> That a Supply be given to His Maje&s;ty.</HEAD>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>Tho. C.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>moved, That the Words, (toward the Support of the Additional Forces) may be added.</P>
<P>The Committee divided. Yea's 156, No's 225. It was carried in the Negative; and then the&s;e Votes pa&s;t:</P>
<P>That a Supply be given to His Maje&s;ty; and that the Hou&s;e be moved, to bring in a Bill, to make the Militia u&s;eful.</P>
<P>And then Adjourned 'till Nine a Clock to Morrow Morning.</P>
</SP>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="day">
<HEAD><HI>Veneris</HI> 13. <HI>die Novembris,</HI> 1685.</HEAD>
<P>A Motion being made by the Earl of <HI>Middleton,</HI> That the Hou&s;e &s;hould proceed to the further Con&s;i|deration of His Maje&s;ty's Speech.</P>
<P>The Hou&s;e thereupon re&s;olved it&s;elf into a Com|mittee of the whole Hou&s;e; and the previous Que|&s;tion &s;hould be then put, for the Hou&s;e to go on with the Supply, or proceed to the next Paragraph. The Hou&s;e divided.</P>
<P>For proceeding to the Supply 182.</P>
<P>For proceeding to the next Paragraph.</P>
<P>Then the Hou&s;e Adjourned 'till to Morrow Morn|ing.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="day">
<PB N="13" REF="9">
<HEAD><HI>Sabbati</HI> 14. <HI>die Novembris.</HI> 1685.</HEAD>
<P>An Addre&s;s was moved in the Committee by Sir <HI>Edw. Jennings.</HI> Others moved the Inconveniency of it, if not granted, and &s;o let it alone. Others to have the Catholicks, who had been &s;o u&s;eful and well known to His Maje&s;ty, named and compen&s;ated. Some &s;eemed to doubt His Maje&s;ty's Compliance. Others that it was not to be doubted, when Addre&s;&s;ed by &s;uch a Hou&s;e.</P>
<P>At la&s;t it came to this Conclu&s;ion, That In&s;tructions be given to a Committe, to draw an Humble Addre&s;s to His Maje&s;ty.</P>
<P>Then the Hou&s;e Adjourned till <HI>Monday</HI> Morning.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="day">
<HEAD><HI>Lunae</HI> 16. <HI>die Novembris.</HI> 1685.</HEAD>
<P>Mr. Sollicitor Reports, That the Committe appoin|ted had drawn up an Addre&s;s to His Maje&s;ty; which was read, and agreed to, and is as follows, <HI>viz.</HI></P>
<Q><PB N="14" REF="10">
<P>Mo&s;t Gracious Sovereign,</P>
<P>WE your Maje&s;ty's mo&s;t Loyal and Faith|ful Subjects, the Commons in Parlia|ment a&s;&s;embled, do in the fir&s;t place (as in Du|ty bound) return your Maje&s;ty our mo&s;t hum|ble and hearty Thanks for your great Care and Conduct in &s;uppre&s;&s;ing the late Rebellion, which threatned the Overthrow of this Government, both in Church and State, to the Extirpation of our Religion as by Law e&s;tabli&s;h'd, which is mo&s;t dear unto us, and which your Maje&s;ty hath been plea&s;ed to give us repeated A&s;&s;urances you will always defend and maintain, which with all grateful Hearts we &s;hall ever acknowledge.</P>
<P>We further crave leave to acquaint your Ma|je&s;ty, that we have with all Duty and Readi|ne&s;s taken into our Con&s;ideration your Maje&s;ty's Gracious Speech to us: And as to that part of it, relating to the Officers in the Armies not qua|lified for their Employments, according to an Act of Parliament made in the 25th. Year of the Reign of your Royal Brother, Intituled, <HI>An Act for preventing Dangers which may happen from Po|pi&s;h Recu&s;ants.</HI></P>
<PB N="15" REF="10">
<P> We do out of our bounden Duty, humbly Repre&s;ent unto your Maje&s;ty,</P>
<P>That the&s;e Officers cannot by Law be capable of their Employments, and that the Incapaci|ties they bring upon them&s;elves that way, can no way be taken off but by an Act of Parliament.</P>
<P>Therefore out of that great Reverence and Duty we owe unto your Maje&s;ty, who have been graciou&s;ly pleas'd to take notice of their Services to your Maje&s;ty, we are preparing a Bill to pa&s;s both Hou&s;es, for your Royal A&s;&s;ent, to Indem|nifie them from the Penalties they have now in|curred, and becau&s;e the continuing of them in their Employments may be taken to be a Di&s;pen|&s;ing with that Law without an Act of Parlia|ment, the Con&s;equence of which is of the great|e&s;t Concern to the Rights of all your Maje&s;ty's Subjects, and to all the Laws made for the Se|curity of their Religion:</P>
<P>We therefore, the Knights, Citizens, and Burge&s;&s;es of your Maje&s;ty's Hou&s;e of Commons, do mo&s;t humbly be&s;eech your Maje&s;ty, that you would be mo&s;t graciou&s;ly plea&s;ed to give &s;uch Directions therein, that no Apprehen&s;ions or Jea|lou&s;ies may remain in the Hearts of your Ma|je&s;ty's mo&s;t Loyal Subjects.</P></Q>
<PB N="16" REF="11">
<P> A Motion being made for going to the Lords for their Concurrence,</P>
<P>Some debated, that it would carry with it the greater weight, and be more likely to have good effect; and if the Concurrence of the Lords were asked, the Judges in the Lords Hou&s;e would have an Opportunity of &s;peak|ing their Opinion to it.</P>
<P>Others oppos'd it, for the Lords having already given their Thanks to the King for his Speech, as being con|tented therewith, and that it would be more for the Ho|nour of the Hou&s;e of Commons to Addre&s;s alone.</P>
<P>Tho&s;e that were again&s;t the thing it &s;elf when it pa&s;t fir&s;t, were about going to the Lords for their Concurrence.</P>
<P>The Hou&s;e divided. For asking Concurrence 208. Again&s;t it 212.</P>
<P>It pa&s;t in the Negative. Then the Members of the Hou&s;e that were of His Maje&s;ty's Privy Council, were ordered to know when His Maje&s;ty would be pleas'd to be Attended therewith.</P>
<P><HI>Mr. Sollicitor in the Chair.</HI></P>
<P>The Hou&s;e being Re&s;olved into a Committee of the whole Hou&s;e, to con&s;ider of a Supply for His Maje&s;ty.</P>
<P>The Lord <HI>Campden</HI> moved 200000 <HI>l.</HI> to be given to the King for a Supply, which with 200000 <HI>l.</HI> confe&s;&s;ed of what was given for Suppre&s;&s;ing the late Rebellion, makes 400000 <HI>l.</HI> and was &s;econded.</P>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>J. E.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>&s;aid, that 1200000 <HI>l.</HI> was needful, and that &s;uch a Sum had been given before in the &s;ame Se&s;&s;ion, when there was an Addre&s;s of this kind made to the late King.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="17" REF="11">
<SPEAKER>Sir T. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>We have this Se&s;&s;ion already given Cu&s;toms and Exci&s;es for His Maje&s;ty's Life.
<LIST>
<ITEM>Additional Duty on Wines 8 Years
<LIST>
<ITEM>Yearly 150000 <HI>l.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
<ITEM>Tax on Sugar and Tobacco 8 Years
<LIST>
<ITEM>Yearly 200000 <HI>l.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
<ITEM>Tax on Linnen and <HI>Ea&s;t-India</HI> Com|modities 5 Years
<LIST>
<ITEM>Yearly 120000 <HI>l.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
<P>In all &s;ix Milions.</P>
<P>Let us give little now, to have Opportunity to give more another time; for if we give too much now, we &s;hall have nothing left to give; and if we proceed thus, what we have will be taken from us.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir E. J.</SPEAKER>
<P>To give 1200000 <HI>l.</HI> now, becau&s;e &s;uch a Sum has been given, is no Argument; once 2400000 <HI>l.</HI> was given here, and therefore &s;hould it be &s;o now? 200000 <HI>l.</HI> with what is already confe&s;s'd to be in Ca&s;h, makes 400000 <HI>l.</HI> and that will maintain the Charge one Year and better; and giving all at once, is doubting the Affection of the People.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ld. P.</SPEAKER>
<P>You unanimou&s;ly voted a Supply la&s;t Night, and naming &s;o little now, is not &s;o ingenuous a way of proceeding. We are told, &s;ix Millions have been this Se&s;&s;ions given; I would have you, Gentlemen, take notice, the giving His Maje&s;ty what the late King had, is but &s;etling a Revenue that before was not &s;uf|ficient for the &s;upport of the Government; what was given be&s;ides, was part for the late King's Servants, part for the Fleet and Stores, and part for &s;uppre&s;&s;ing the late Rebellion.</P>
<PB N="18" REF="12">
<P> To give &s;o little now, is not to enable the King to defend and pre&s;erve us, which he has promi&s;ed to do. I am for 1200000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ld. R.</SPEAKER>
<P>The Que&s;tion is for 200000 <HI>l.</HI> or for 1200000<HI>l.</HI></P>
<P>What has been given in this matter already, ought not to be weighed at all; and what is called &s;ix Mil|lions, had all u&s;es (when given) tack'd to it.</P>
<P>The Revenue his Brother had, had U&s;es enough, as&mdash;</P>
<P>The Wine and Vinegar Act, rated at yearly 150000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
<P>For the Fleet, Stores, Ordnance, and Servants.</P>
<P>The Sugar and Tobacco Act, rated at yearly 200000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
<P>For the &s;aid Stores, Ordinary, and Fleet&mdash;</P>
<P>And the Additional Duty on <HI>French</HI> Linnen and <HI>Ea&s;t-India</HI> Commodities, rated at yearly 120000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
<P>For &s;uppre&s;&s;ing the late Rebellion&mdash;</P>
<P>So there are U&s;es for all that, and what is now given, mu&s;t be taken for &s;upporting the Forces&mdash;</P>
<P>And therefore I am for 1200000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir W. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Two hundred thou&s;and pound is much too little: Soldiers move not without Pay. <HI>No Penny, no Pater No&s;ter.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. E.</SPEAKER>
<P>Moved for 700000 <HI>l.</HI> and mention'd to have it rais'd upon the new Buildings, which might produce 400000 <HI>l.</HI> and a Poll Bill for the other 300000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. W.</SPEAKER>
<P>If I knew the King's Revenue were &s;hort, I would give as far as any Man; but now we are go|ing for this particular U&s;e, and if this 200000 <HI>l.</HI> will not do, how can we be &s;ure that 1200000 <HI>l.</HI> will?&mdash;</P>
<P>If we give too little now, hereafter, if we &s;ee Oc|ca&s;ion, we may give more; but if we now give too much, I do not &s;ee how we &s;hall ever have it again, though I have heard of &s;uch a thing in Queen <HI>Elizabeth</HI>'s time.</P>
<PB N="19" REF="12">
<P> The King (reckoning what he had of his own into it) has 600000 <HI>l.</HI> yearly more than the late King had, and when there is need, I am for more, but now only 400000 <HI>l.</HI> and to rai&s;e that ea&s;ie you will be put to it: How will you do it?</P>
<P>If you lay it upon Trade, that will make it Revenue, and when once in the Crown for &s;ome time, it will ne|ver get out again. I am for only 400000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ld. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>If the King wants 200000 <HI>l.</HI> I would give him 200000 <HI>l.</HI> but I am for giving no more than he really wants.&mdash;</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. W.</SPEAKER>
<P>We give, becau&s;e we are ask'd; I am for the lea&s;t Sum, becau&s;e for an Army, and I would be rid of them as &s;oon as I could; and am more now again&s;t it than I lately was, being &s;atisfied that the Country is weary of the Oppre&s;&s;ion of the Soldiers, weary of Free Quarters, Plunder, and &s;ome Felons, for which they have no Complaint, no Redre&s;s: And &s;ince I heard Mr. <HI>Blathwait</HI> tell us, how &s;trict Rules were pre&s;cribed them by the King, I find by their behaviour, the King cannot govern them him&s;elf, and then what will be|come of us?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir W. H.</SPEAKER>
<P>The Rebellion is &s;uppre&s;s'd, and the Army is urged to be &s;mall, but it is &s;o thick of Officers, that by filling up the Troops, which is ea&s;ily at any time done, increa&s;es their Number to a third part more. I am for providing for them but one whole Year only, and only for 400000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>I agree to the 400000 <HI>l.</HI> We owe be&s;ides that a Duty to our Country, and are bound by the Duty to leave our Po&s;terity as free in our Liberties and Properties as we can&punc; and there being Officers now in the Army, that have not taken the Te&s;t, greatly flats my Zeal for
<PB N="20" REF="13"> it, and makes me e&s;teem the Militia, which if we well modelled, and plac'd in mens hands of Intere&s;t in their Country, we are certain, and &s;o is the King &s;ecure; for there is no &s;uch Security of any Man's Loyalty, as a good E&s;tate.</P>
<P>Rea&s;ons I have heard given again&s;t Armies, that they Debauch'd the Manners of all the People, their Wives, Daughters, and Servants.</P>
<P>Men do not go to Church where they Quarter, for fear Mi&s;chief to be done at their Hou&s;es in their ab&s;ence.</P>
<P>Plowmen and Servants quit all Country Employments to turn Soldiers; and then a Court Martial in time of Peace, is mo&s;t terrible.</P>
<P>In Peace, Ju&s;tices of it, and the Civil Magi&s;trate ought to Puni&s;h, if applied to.</P>
<P>And what Occa&s;ion then can be for them?</P>
<P>Is it to &s;uppre&s;s a Rebellion in time of an Inva&s;ion? all then will go towards that.</P>
<P>Or is it to A&s;&s;i&s;t his Allies? the Hou&s;e will give Aid when wanted on that &s;core.</P>
<P>The Guards I am not again&s;t, tho&s;e &s;hewed them|&s;elves u&s;eful in <HI>Venner</HI>'s Bu&s;ine&s;s, and the late Rebellion; I am not again&s;t them, I only &s;peak of tho&s;e that have been new rais'd.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Col. A.</SPEAKER>
<P>I'll tell you the u&s;e of the&s;e Forces; they ex|pected the ri&s;ing of a great Party, and were not the&s;e Forces &s;tanding, to prevent a Rebellion, you would have one in few days.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. B.</SPEAKER>
<P>If any Di&s;orders have been committed, it is not yet too late to have them redre&s;s'd; and Martial-Law (if by that clear'd) does not hinder proceeding at Common-Law for the &s;ame thing.</P>
<PB N="21" REF="13">
<P> Four hundred thou&s;and pound is not enough; no State near us in Proportion, but what exceeds this &s;mall number of Men.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir T. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Seven Millions of Men in <HI>England;</HI> the &s;trength of Men in <HI>England</HI> con&s;i&s;ts in our Native, in which (for want of Men) <HI>France</HI> can never equal us; their Trade will not breed them; a Ship of 50 Tuns will carry 100000 <HI>l.</HI> of their Goods, Linnen and Silks. Ours are bulky Goods, and Employs Twenty times more, unle&s;s you (by burdening of Trade) let them into the <HI>West-Indies.</HI> Armies are not manageable, Com|manders have been very often known to Rebel: The mea&s;ure of our Supply is our Security.</P>
<P>His Maje&s;ty's Declaration &s;ays, if on Complaint, the Officers give no Redre&s;s, then Complain to the King; and &s;o Ju&s;tice is balked by this hard&s;hip put upon the Complainant.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir W. T.</SPEAKER>
<P>moved to have it temporary from year to year.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir C. M.</SPEAKER>
<P>Let it be to enable His Maje&s;ty to pre&s;erve us in Peace at home, and to make His Maje&s;ty Formida|ble abroad for 1200000 <HI>l.</HI> as a Supply an&s;werable to the Loyalty of this Hou&s;e.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir H. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>This Hou&s;e was &s;o forward to give la&s;t time, that the King's Mini&s;ters gave their &s;top to it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir J. W.</SPEAKER>
<P>The U&s;e is to direct the <HI>Quantum.</HI> I &s;ee a pre&s;ent nece&s;&s;ity for continuing the&s;e Forces, till the Mi|litia is made u&s;eful; I am for trying two years, and &s;o for 400000 <HI>l.</HI> and &s;o leave the Door open for coming hither to give another time.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir T. M.</SPEAKER>
<P>The Principle of the Rebel Party is never to Repent. I am for 1200000 <HI>l.</HI> and if &s;o much be gi|ven, I would have you, Gentlemen, to remember the Fanaticks are the cau&s;e of it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="22" REF="14">
<SPEAKER>Mr. P.</SPEAKER>
<P>An I&s;land may be attaqued, notwith&s;tanding any Fleet. Ours is much mended, a Thou&s;and Men daily at Work, ever &s;ince we gave Money for it, and not one Man in it an Officer, that has not taken the Te&s;t.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Col. O.</SPEAKER>
<P>New Troops are not &s;o good as old, and more &s;ubject to commit Di&s;orders, but will be le&s;s &s;o, when they are longer under Di&s;cipline. The King of <HI>France</HI> never &s;ends Troops to his Army, till they have been two or three years on foot in a Garri&s;on.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir T. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>The Trained Bands at <HI>Newberry-</HI>Fight did brave things.</P>
</SP>
<P>Then the Que&s;tion was put, That a Sum, not ex|ceeding 400000 <HI>l.</HI> &s;hould be given to the King.</P>
<P>The Previous Que&s;tion being put. <HI>Yeas</HI> 167. <HI>Noes</HI> 179. It pa&s;&s;ed in the Negative.</P>
<P>Then the Que&s;tion was put for 700000 <HI>l.</HI> and no more. <HI>Yeas&mdash;</HI>212. <HI>Noes&mdash;</HI>170. So it pa&s;s'd in the Affirmative.</P>
<P>The Que&s;tion for 1200000 <HI>l.</HI> being thus waved, it was then Ordered, That the Committee of the whole Hou&s;e &s;hould to Morrow proceed on His Maje&s;ty's Sup|ply, and on Wedne&s;day to con&s;ider of Heads for a Mi|litia-Bill.</P>
<P>And then Adjourned till Nine of the Clock to morrow Morning.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="day">
<HEAD><HI>Martis</HI> 17. <HI>die Novembris.</HI> 1685.</HEAD>
<P>The Hou&s;e Re&s;olved it &s;elf into a Committee of the whole Hou&s;e, to con&s;ider the way of rai&s;ing His Ma|je&s;ty's Supply.</P>
<PB N="23" REF="14">
<P><HI>Mr. <HI>North</HI> in the Chair.</HI></P>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>J. E.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>Moved, that an Additional Duty upon Wines might yield 400000 <HI>l.</HI> yearly; and other Goods he na|med, about 600000 <HI>l.</HI> yearly, which with the continu|ance for &s;ome years of the late Act of Impo&s;ition of <HI>French</HI> Linnens, and <HI>Ea&s;t-India</HI> Silks, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> might make up the Sum; and told the Hou&s;e, he propos'd this way, to avoid a Land-Tax.</P>
<P>The Goods he named to be rated, were Soap, Pot|a&s;hes, to pay 7 <HI>d.</HI> &frac12; to treble; unwrought Silks, Deals, Planks; and other Boards to double. Rai&s;ins and Pruans 2 <HI>s. per Cent.</HI> to double. Iron now pays 7 <HI>s. per Cent.</HI> to double. Copperas 18 <HI>s. per Cent.</HI> to double. Oyls to 8 or 10 <HI>per</HI> Tun, pay now 30 <HI>s.</HI> Drugs will bear &frac23; more than rated. Drugs and Spice from <HI>Holland,</HI> Salt, and all Prohibited Goods, 20 <HI>l. per Cent.</HI></P>
<P>And this I hope may do what is now intended to be rais'd at this time, &s;uppo&s;ing 4 <HI>l. per</HI> Tun on <HI>French Wines.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir <HI>D. N.</HI></SPEAKER>
<P>Moved much to the &s;ame effect, and en|larged on it, and &s;aid, the Book of Rates had been well con&s;ider'd, and the&s;e Goods capable of bearing the Du|ties propos'd; but if the King took the 4 <HI>l. per</HI> Tun on <HI>French</HI> Wines at twenty thou&s;and pounds yearly, he would be a lo&s;er by it.</P>
<P>Other Gentlemen in&s;i&s;ted on having <HI>French</HI> Linnen higher charg'd.</P>
<P>The Pepper that is expended here, paying one penny a pound, might pay one penny more, and &s;o yield 70 or 80000 <HI>l.</HI> yearly; and that Bullion exported to the <HI>Indies,</HI> might bear 5 <HI>l. per Cent.</HI> and encourage the &s;end|ing of other Goods (in &s;ome mea&s;ure) in&s;tead of it thither.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="24" REF="15">
<SPEAKER>Sir R. T.</SPEAKER>
<P>Moved Sub&s;idies or Land-Tax; but the Hou&s;e inclining to what was fir&s;t propos'd, and being con&s;ented to by the King's Mini&s;ters, &s;eemed contented with it; &s;o was voted, That an Act for laying an Impo&s;ition on <HI>French</HI> Linnens, <HI>Ea&s;t-India</HI> Goods, Brandy, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> &s;hould be continued for five years from <HI>Mid&s;ummer</HI> 1690. and be given to His Maje&s;ty as 400000 <HI>l.</HI> And that</P>
<P>An Impo&s;ition of 4 <HI>l. per</HI> Tun be laid upon all <HI>French</HI> Wines, on which to be rais'd 300000 <HI>l.</HI> which makes up the 700000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
<P>The time how long this 4 <HI>l. per</HI> Tun &s;hall be laid, is not yet determined, an Account being fir&s;t to be brought from the Cu&s;tom-Hou&s;e Books, of what number of Tuns are yearly Imported; 'twas &s;aid 100000 Tuns: Others affirm'd, there were near double &s;o many.</P>
</SP>
<P>The Hou&s;e &s;eemed to incline to 8 or 10 years, and that the Duties already on it &s;hould &s;till continue for the &s;ame time; which 4 <HI>l. per</HI> Tun, with the Duty it already pays, is near 20 <HI>l. per</HI> Tun.</P>
<P>And then the Hou&s;e Adjourn'd till Nine of the Clock to morrow Morning.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="day">
<HEAD><HI>Mercurii</HI> 18. <HI>die Novembris.</HI> 1685.</HEAD>
<P>Mr. Speaker Acquaints the Hou&s;e, That His Maje&s;ty having been ye&s;terday Attended in the <HI>Banqueting-Hou&s;e</HI> at <HI>Whitehall</HI> with the Addre&s;s of Thanks from this Hou&s;e for his great Care and Conduct, and &s;uppre&s;&s;ing the late Rebellion; and likewi&s;e concerning the Officers of the Army not qualified for their Employments, was Gra|ciou&s;ly pleas'd to Return an An&s;wer, to the effect fol|lowing.</P>
<Q><PB N="25" REF="15">
<P>My Lords and Gentlemen,</P>
<P>I <HI>Did not expect &s;uch an Addre&s;s from the Hou&s;e of Commons. For having &s;o lately recommended to your Con&s;ideration the great Advantages a good Under|&s;tanding between us had produc'd us in a very &s;hort time, and given you warning of Fears and Jealou&s;ies amongst our &s;elves. I had rea&s;on to hope, that the Reputation God had ble&s;&s;ed me with in the World, would have &s;eated and confirm'd a good Confidence in you for me, and of all that I &s;ay to you.</HI></P>
<P><HI>But however you proceed on your Part, I will be &s;teady in all my Promi&s;es I have made to you, and be ju&s;t to my Word in this, and all my other Speeches.</HI></P></Q>
<P>The &s;aid An&s;wer was read with all due Reverence and Re&s;pect, and there being a profound Silence in the Hou&s;e for &s;ome time after it.</P>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. W.</SPEAKER>
<P>moved, that a Day might be appointed to con&s;ider on His Maje&s;ty's An&s;wer to the late Addre&s;s of this Hou&s;e, and named <HI>Friday</HI> next.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Stood up, and &s;econded that Motion, and &s;aid, I hope we are all <HI>Engli&s;h</HI> Men, and are not to be frighted out of our Duty by a few high Words.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ld. P.</SPEAKER>
<P>took pre&s;ent Exceptions again&s;t the Words, which, as is u&s;ual, were writ down by the Clerk, and Mr. <HI>C.</HI> call'd upon to explain&mdash;</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>&s;aid, he intended no ill by it; and that he did not believe the&s;e the Words: And that if he had &s;aid
<PB N="26" REF="16"> any thing that had given that Hou&s;e Offence, he was &s;orry, and would ask them Pardon for it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir C. M.</SPEAKER>
<P>It is not enough to &s;ay the&s;e were not the Words, but you are to &s;ay what the Words were.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>I do not make &s;et Speeches: I cannot repeat them; and if they did drop from me, I ask the King and you Pardon.</P>
<P>So the&s;e being took for granted to have been the Words, Mr. <HI>C.</HI> as the Cu&s;tom is in &s;uch Ca&s;es, with|drew into the Speaker's Chamber.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir J. T.</SPEAKER>
<P>Not our own Honour, but the King is con|cern'd in this; and moved, that he &s;hould be brought to the Bar, and there to receive a Reprimand from Mr. Speaker for it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir H. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>a Gentleman of great Loyalty, never before of the Hou&s;e, de&s;ired he might have what Favour he could.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Mr. A.</SPEAKER>
<P>A great Reflection upon this Hou&s;e, if this be let pa&s;s. Several &s;poke of his Loyalty, but none to Ex|cu&s;e him for this.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ld. P.</SPEAKER>
<P>Send him to the Tower.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ld. M.</SPEAKER>
<P>The meaning of this &s;eems like an Incendiary. The Tower!</P>
<P>This needs no aggravation; a Reprimand for an Of|fence to this Hou&s;e, might do; but this does not end there, and 'tis a que&s;tion whether it be in the Power of the Hou&s;e to pa&s;s it by, the Offence is given to the King as well as you: I am for calling him to the Bar in the fir&s;t place. But 'twas then Order'd, that Mr. <HI>C.</HI> for his undecent Speech, &s;hould be &s;ent to the Tower.</P>
<P>And then Mr. <HI>S.</HI> &s;aid, Now this is over, I cannot but con&s;ent to tho&s;e that moved for a day, to con&s;ider of His Maje&s;ty's An&s;wer, nor think my &s;elf as hone&s;t as I &s;hould be, if I now hold my tongue.</P>
<PB N="27" REF="16">
<P> And if we do take this Matter into Con&s;ideration, I doubt not but we &s;hall behave our &s;elves with that decen|cy to His Maje&s;ty, that we may hope for a more &s;atisfa|ctory An&s;wer, than as yet this &s;eems to be to me.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir J. E.</SPEAKER>
<P>I hope that acquie&s;cence that was this mor|ning in this Hou&s;e, on reading His Maje&s;ty's An&s;wer, has ended this matter. I do think the King will do all what he promi&s;ed, and am for re&s;ting there</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir T. M.</SPEAKER>
<P>mov'd to Adjourn, and &s;aid, he did not know what to &s;ay to it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Sir T. C.</SPEAKER>
<P>For that very Rea&s;on I move for a day to con&s;ider of it; and I do not think we &s;hew that Re&s;pect we ought to do to the King if we do not.</P>
</SP>
<P>And then the Hou&s;e Adjourn'd to Nine of the Clock to Morrow Morning.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="day">
<HEAD><HI>Jovis</HI> 19. <HI>die Novembris.</HI> 1685.</HEAD>
<P>The Committee appointed to &s;earch the Cu&s;tom-Hou&s;e Books, how many Tuns of <HI>French</HI> Wines were yearly Imported, Report to the Hou&s;e, That 4 <HI>l. per</HI> Tun laid upon <HI>French</HI> Wines, would, all Deductions allowed, bring in yearly 350000 <HI>l.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Mr. Sollicitor took the Chair.</HI></P>
<P>And 'twas thereupon Re&s;olved, That the 4 <HI>l. per</HI> Tun, to be laid on <HI>French</HI> Wines, for the rai&s;ing of 300000 <HI>l.</HI> be continued from the Fir&s;t of <HI>December,</HI> 1685. yearly, for 9 years and a half.</P>
<P>To which the Hou&s;e agreed, and Mr. Sollicitor was Order'd to bring in a Bill on the Debates of the Hou&s;e,
<PB N="28" REF="17"> with a Clau&s;e of Loan for the &s;aid Impo&s;ition of 4 <HI>l. per</HI> Tun for the &s;aid 9 years and a half, from the Fir&s;t of <HI>December</HI> 1685. And then Adjourn'd.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="day">
<HEAD><HI>Veneris</HI> 20. <HI>die Novembris.</HI> 1685.</HEAD>
<P><HI>A Me&s;&s;age from the King by the Gentleman U&s;her of the Black-Rod.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Mr. Speaker, It is His Maje&s;ty's Plea&s;ure, this Ho|nourable Hou&s;e do Attend him immediately in the Hou&s;e of Peers. Where being come, the Lord Chancellor, by His Maje&s;ty's Directions, &s;aid as followeth.</HI></P>
<Q><P>My Lords, and you the Knights, Citizens, and Burge&s;&s;es of the Hou&s;e of Commons, I am Commanded by His Ma|je&s;ty to let you know, that it is His Maje&s;ty's Plea&s;ure, for many weighty Rea&s;ons, that this Parliament be Prorogu'd till the <HI>10th.</HI> day of <HI>February</HI> next. And accordingly this Parliament is Prorogu'd till the <HI>10th.</HI> day of <HI>February</HI> next.</P>
<P>Di&s;&s;olved.</P></Q>
</DIV2>
<TRAILER>FINIS.</TRAILER>
<PB REF="17">
</DIV1>
</BODY>
</TEXT>
</EEBO>
</ETS>
