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<DATE>2014-05-28</DATE>
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<NAME>Colm MacCrossan</NAME>
<RESP>MURP</RESP>
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<ITEM>Proofed and reviewed.</ITEM>
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<VID>196665</VID>
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<TEXT LANG="eng">
<FRONT>
<DIV1 TYPE="title page">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<P>M. S. <HI>TO</HI> A. S. WITH A Plea for Libertie of Con&s;cience in a Church way, Again&s;t the Cavils of <HI>A. S.</HI> AND OBSERVATIONS ON HIS CONSIDERATIONS, AND ANNOTATIONS Upon the Apologeticall Narration, Humbly &s;ubmitted to the judgements of all rati|onall, and moderate men in the world; With &s;ome mode&s;t, and innocent touches on the LETTER from ZEALAND, And M^r^. PARKER'S from <HI>New-England.</HI></P>
<Q><HI>Nec Imperiale est dicendi libertatem negare, nec Sacerdotale, quod &s;entias, non dicere.</HI> <BIBL>Ambr. Ep. 17.</BIBL></Q>
<P><FLOATEXT LANG="eng" TYPE="license">
<P>Licenced and Entred according to Order.</P>
</FLOATEXT></P>
<P><HI>London,</HI> Printed by <HI>F. N.</HI> for <HI>H. Overton.</HI> 1644.</P>
<PB REF="2">
</DIV1>
</FRONT>
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="tract">
<DIV2 TYPE="annotations">
<PB N="1" REF="2">
<HEAD><HI>A. S.</HI> SOME OBSERVATIONS AND ANNOTATIONS <HI>upon the Apologeticall Narration, humbly</HI> &s;ubmitted to the Honorable Hou&s;es of PAR|LIAMENT, the mo&s;t Reverend and learned <HI>DIVINES</HI> of the <HI>A&s;&s;embly,</HI> and all the <HI>Prote&s;tant Churches</HI> here in this I&s;land, <HI>and abroad.</HI></HEAD>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>_IF <HI>A. S.</HI> his heart with di&s;content be rent in two peices (as he &s;aith in his Epi&s;tle) to hear the in|nocent bleatings of that wronged Lambe the Apologie; &s;urely our hearts more ju&s;tly may be rent in twenty peices to hear and &s;ee this roaring Lyon-like Reply, with his many claws of <HI>Ob&s;er|vations, Annotations, Con&s;iderations,</HI> and <HI>Notes,</HI> renting and tearing that mode&s;t and innocent thing, and no man &s;aying to him, Why doe&s;t thou &s;o? Is this the u&s;e men make of <HI>pre&s;&s;ing Sermons,</HI> and prin|ted <HI>Con&s;iderations</HI> to &s;tay and <HI>wait what the A&s;&s;embly would do;</HI> that &s;ome preach, and others print for their own way, on the one &s;ide, while&s;t the other &s;tand &s;till to be beaten, muffled and bound up from &s;peaking by Pen and Pre&s;&s;e without much &s;triving? The Apologie did but tell men with as gracious words and as much &s;weetne&s;&s;e as a thing could &s;peak, how farre they did recede from, and di&s;claim <HI>Separation</HI> and <HI>Browni&s;me;</HI> and how neer they did <HI>accedere</HI> cloze with the pre&s;ent reformed Churches, even beyond the expectation of thou&s;ands, and &s;ee how many &s;tinging flyes are and about to alight upon this youngling newly eaned. One buzzing to the other, as one Raven inviting another, at this lambing-time of the yeer, that the
<PB N="2" REF="3"> young brood, at the &s;ame minute may &s;ee the light and loo&s;e their eyes.</P>
<P>How many Replyes in two or three weeks, appearingly have turned the world, if not the Church, up&s;ide down; mo&s;t men &s;eem|ing to be re&s;olved before the Arguments are &s;olved?</P>
<P>Beleeve it, it works more upon the &s;pirits of the be&s;t men, then ever any thing yet that befell this Kingdom. Things before were <HI>irregular</HI> enough, but now <HI>prepo&s;terous;</HI> before <HI>re&s;olute</HI> enough, now <HI>violent;</HI> before the <HI>body</HI> of the Kingdom, the Common-wealth, was &s;ore &s;ick, now the <HI>&s;oul,</HI> the Church, to mens thinking, lies ga&s;ping.</P>
<P>It was ob&s;erved on the date of the Title, by one in a more cheerful <NOTE PLACE="marg">The date of A <HI>S.</HI> his book. So &s;ome of the be&s;t A|&s;tronomers long &s;ince progno&s;ti|cated that 1640. <HI>plus minus</HI> &s;hould be|gin <HI>Totius mundi univer&s;alis in&s;ania.</HI> The title of the book.</NOTE> temper, then that An&s;werer can willingly be at the &s;ight of &s;uch a Book, thus; <HI>In the beginning of March (that rougb Moneth) the Sun being ecclip&s;ed, and the Moon changed but a day or two before) A. D.</HI> 1644, <HI>part of the A&s;tronomers criticall time of almo&s;t an univer&s;all madne&s;&s;e (witne&s;&s;e all the Cavaliers, and many Scholars) which hath co&s;t our prudent and wor|thy Parliament, and Armies of Scotland fir&s;t, and then of England, much care to cure as fa&s;t as they can; There bolts forth a wilde book, &s;wiftly running like a March-Hare, hunted through a town, cau&s;ing &s;uch a &s;hout like that among the Phili&s;tines, as if the Ark of God were taken, the Churches were &s;urpri&s;ed. Ju&s;t like that Hare that running through the Army that be&s;ieged</HI> Rome <HI>oc|ca&s;ioned the Souldiers &s;o lowdly to now her, that the Romanes thought verily that their works were &s;tormed, and their City taken.</HI> But away. <HI>Non e&s;t con|veniens luctibus i&s;ta loqui.</HI></P>
<P>The title of the book in the title page and the fir&s;t page is, <HI>Some Ob&s;ervations, Annotations, and Generall Con&s;iderations upon the Apologeti|call Narration, humbly &s;ubmitted to the Honorable Hou&s;es of Parliament, the mo&s;t reverend and learned Divines of the A&s;&s;embly, and all the Prote&s;tant Churches here in this I&s;land, and abroad.</HI></P>
<P>A title carrying a great breadth with it, and &s;oaring high, as if <HI>A. S.</HI> were confident that in his book he &s;peaks <HI>learnedly,</HI> as a Scho|ler, <HI>truly,</HI> as an hone&s;t man, <HI>gravely,</HI> as a &s;erious man, and <HI>lovingly</HI> as a Chri&s;tian man; and that all the&s;e wayes he did make good that title, which if it be &s;haped to the book, and read according to the rode thereof, I &s;peak it &s;eriou&s;ly and with a &s;ad heart (the&s;e being no times nor things for je&s;ting or jeering, which is the faults of <HI>A. S.)</HI> <NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">A Parlia|ment man &s;aid A. S. jeer'd. Another gentleman &s;aid, he li|ked not the &s;pirit of the man, yet neither of them Inde|pendents.</NOTE> may mo&s;t ju&s;tly be read thus: <HI>In Ob&s;ervations and in con&s;iderations &s;imply committed again&s;t the Honorable Hou&s;es of Parliament, the reverend A&s;&s;embly of Divines, and the Prote&s;tant Churches at home and abroad.</HI></P>
<P>For this one &s;ingle &s;imple <HI>A. S.</HI> now &s;tarts up by him&s;elf, peremp|torily
<PB N="3" REF="3"> to &s;tate, and determine the Que&s;tions, for the re&s;olution whereof the Parliament thought the A&s;&s;embly of Divines few enough to undertake; and therefore call'd all them together for that purpo&s;e, who are now mo&s;t intent upon the pin of the contro|ver&s;ie; yet as if <HI>A. S.</HI> would take the work out of their hands, he will anticipate, and fore-judge the five Mini&s;ters as utterly erring throughout (for he &s;ifts them corn after corn) which if true, the di&s;pute is at an end. Go then <HI>A. S.</HI> and carrie, if you dare, your plat|form to the Parliament, and intreat the learned A&s;&s;embly to di&s;|&s;olve.</P>
<P>But, <HI>A. S.</HI> will go his own way, and thereby he hath given great offence to the <HI>Prote&s;tant Churches,</HI> to charge them all of di&s;&s;enting from the five Mini&s;ters, and awakning mens &s;pirits into replyes, when before they were drow&s;ing with long expectation the&s;e two yeers of a publick determination, and I wi&s;h this may be the la&s;t Reply before all things be &s;weetly compo&s;ed. However this intends onely to take off a&s;per&s;ions, not to lay down a&s;&s;ertions. We will but barely an&s;wer <HI>A. S.</HI> who hath &s;o la&s;ht the five Mini&s;ters, with &s;o much &s;harpne&s;&s;e of &s;pirit, for telling the world <HI>how farre off they are from Browni&s;me and Separation, and how clo&s;e they come to the more reformed Churches in Scotland and England.</HI> Many very good men have won|dred that the five Mini&s;ters clo&s;ed &s;o much; yet <HI>A. S.</HI> is bitterly an|grie they clo&s;e no more, before the point be di&s;puted. O it was a fault of the Cynick Phylo&s;opher in his high &s;hooes &s;o to dance on the Platonick Phylo&s;ophers bed and Arras Coverlet, with boa&s;ting, that <HI>he danced on his brother Philo&s;ophers pride,</HI> as that the patient Phy|lo&s;opher could ju&s;tly reply, yea, &s;aith he, <HI>Thou dance&s;t on my pride with thy greater pride.</HI></P>
<P>How much of this is <HI>A. S.</HI> his, I &s;ay not; but &s;ure it was the un|&s;ea&s;onable&s;t if not the mo&s;t un&s;avourie book to multitudes of &s;piri|tuall palates, as ever wi&s;e man put forth.</P>
<P>Yet <HI>James Cranford</HI> is quoted by the Printer in the page before the Title, as approving it and the book with a Licentious approba|tion, in the&s;e words; <HI>The&s;e judicious Ob&s;ervations and Annotations, &amp;c. as being at this time nece&s;&s;arie and &s;ea&s;onable for the vindication of all Prote|&s;tant Churches, defending the authority of Parliaments and Synods, and pre|vention of divi&s;ion amongst our &s;elves, (though I reverence the per&s;ons of the Apologi&s;ts, yet) I approve to be impre&s;&s;ed.</HI></P>
<P>Mr. <HI>Cranford,</HI> if the Printer hath dealt faithfully with you, let me intreat you (and the Lord help you) to &s;ee your &s;elf, ask your con|&s;cience,
<PB N="4" REF="4"> aske your rea&s;on, aske the book it &s;elfe, whether there be one true clau&s;e in all that you have &s;aid?</P>
<P>Are the&s;e Ob&s;ervations, &amp;c. of <HI>A. S. judicious,</HI> that are extra judi|ciall and prejudicall to the publike peace and order, and ordinance for di&s;pute, prejudging and adjudging them, who joyntly with the grave A&s;&s;embly, <HI>A. S.</HI> acknowledgeth the Arbitratour, or Judge, if not his Judge, in the matters in que&s;tion? Are they at this time <HI>nece&s;&s;ary,</HI> when the grave Commi&s;&s;ioners of <HI>Scotland,</HI> had with farre more prudence and &s;oliditie then <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;aid by way of reply &s;o much to the Apologie, <HI>Nemine reclamante,</HI> none replying till <HI>A. S.</HI> was abroad? Is there any need to bring a great printing pre&s;&s;e, to &s;quee&s;e to death a poor worme trodden on before? Or to bring many leavers to break an egge, that makes &s;mall re&s;i&s;tance? The truth is, <HI>A. S.</HI> his Ob&s;ervations are like a man with a Pole-axe, knocking a man on the head, to kill a fly lighting on his beard.</P>
<P>For though he &s;ayth, <HI>he humbly &s;ubmitteth to the Prote&s;tant Churches,</HI> yet he lays about him, as if he would knock them all down unto a &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion to <HI>A. S.</HI> who&s;oever they be that will not &s;toop to his book. For though he thinks that <HI>all Prote&s;tant and Chri&s;tian Churches</HI> are <HI>for him</HI> rather then for the <HI>five Mini&s;ters,</HI> as he intimates in the begin|ning of his Epi&s;tle, and therefore in all likelihood, profe&s;&s;eth a &s;ub|mi&s;&s;ion to them; yet he will find many Churches in <HI>London</HI> (he would wonder if we &s;hould name how many) that will not &s;ubmit to his book, and yet come to the publike Ordinance, doe not &s;eparate, but are mo&s;t willing to &s;ubmit to the truth, regularly di&s;cu&s;&s;ed, cleared, and brought down to them. Yet &s;till <HI>James Cranford</HI> &s;tands fixed in the Licence page, in black and not blu&s;h, for a&s;&s;erting that <HI>A. S.</HI> his Ob&s;ervations, &amp;c. are <HI>judicious</HI> and <HI>nece&s;&s;ary.</HI> When as they are nei|ther, unle&s;&s;e <HI>prepo&s;terou&s;ne&s;&s;e, abu&s;e of good men,</HI> and the <HI>di&s;turbance of the people,</HI> be <HI>judicious</HI> and <HI>nece&s;&s;ary.</HI> For though the en&s;uing an&s;wer will prove them evill, yet they will never be proved nece&s;&s;ary evills. They are not &s;o much as <HI>civilly nece&s;&s;ary,</HI> either <HI>nece&s;&s;itate praecepti,</HI> as commanded by Parliament, or A&s;&s;embly, or <HI>nece&s;&s;itate medij,</HI> as u&s;e|full to compo&s;e, but indi&s;po&s;e the minds of men, to embrace things prejudiced with the violence of private &s;pirits. Men will not &s;o ea|&s;ily be whipt and compelld by one inferior.</P>
<P>Againe, Are the Ob&s;ervations <HI>&s;ea&s;onable,</HI> which doe but <HI>inter&s;tre|pere,</HI> make a noy&s;e, whil&s;t the Divines are di&s;puting, drawing the people together in heaps, there taking up their parts, to defend, one again&s;t another, and pre-ingage them&s;elves before they come to
<PB N="5" REF="4"> heare what the A&s;&s;embly will &s;ay? For &s;uch a book cannot come forth, but it makes a thou&s;and di&s;pute in a week, every one then con|tending for his owne, when it is &s;o irregularly and illegally taken from him. Are they for the <HI>vindication of all Prote&s;tant Churches,</HI> when as in condemning the Apologie, they condemne <HI>many,</HI> very many Churches in <HI>England, many</HI> in <HI>Holland,</HI> generally <HI>all</HI> in <HI>New-England,</HI> notwith&s;tanding &s;ome private Letters and Manu&s;cripts &s;ent over, to which we &s;hall an&s;wer afterwards. Are they for the <HI>defence of the authoritie of Parliament,</HI> in oppo&s;ition to the Apologie? doth the Apo|logie touch one hayre of the honourable heads of the Parliament? Are not the five Mini&s;ters chidden &s;ome where in print, for &s;aying <NOTE PLACE="marg">R. C.</NOTE> <HI>they allow more to the Civill Magi&s;trate, then they think others principles can?</HI> Doth not <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;nib them too for going (as he thinks in their Apolo|gie) <NOTE PLACE="marg">Pag. 4.</NOTE> to the civill Magi&s;trate? Doth not <HI>A. S.</HI> in his book give a nega|tive vote again&s;t the civill Magi&s;trates directive power in matters of <NOTE PLACE="marg">Pag. 5.</NOTE> Religion?</P>
<P>I will not by Gods help wrong the <HI>A. S.</HI> in an hayre of thy head, therefore I relate not all you &s;ay, but let me &s;ay what I think, which to &s;ay will do you no harme. If the re&s;olutions of the Divines be not dige&s;ted by the rea&s;on and graces of the hou&s;es of Parliament, and &s;o made as their own &s;ence, for ought I know they will never be tur|ned into a Statute. Are the&s;e Ob&s;ervations for the <HI>defence of the au|thoritie of Synods,</HI> in oppo&s;ition to the Apologie? What Synods? <HI>Scrip|ture-</HI>Synods? Where doth the Apologie whimper again&s;t them? or do you mean <HI>cla&s;&s;icall</HI> ones? If &s;o, thats the que&s;tion. And &s;o you pro|claime a <HI>defence</HI> of that which yet hath no <HI>exi&s;tence.</HI> The que&s;tion is not re&s;olved. La&s;tly, Are the&s;e <HI>Ob&s;ervations for prevention of &s;ad divi&s;ion amongst our &s;elves.</HI></P>
<P>Well, Mr. <HI>Cranford,</HI> you have by this endeavoured to &s;et Divines together by the eares <HI>More eccle&s;ia&s;tico,</HI> your licentiating hath in a|bled men to give the <HI>&s;econd blow,</HI> upon <HI>which,</HI> the common Law lay|eth the <HI>breach of the peace.</HI> And notwith&s;tanding you licence the&s;e <HI>Annotations, yet you &s;ay you reverence the per&s;ons of the Apologi&s;ts.</HI> A pinne for &s;uch complements, Love me, and love the truth. Let us mea&s;ure your re&s;pect to them, while&s;t the advantage of the higher ground whereon it &s;tands be removed. Away with your <HI>dare verba,</HI> your froathy words; This is the truth, &s;o much you re|&s;pect them, as <HI>A. S.</HI> re&s;pects them. And &s;o much have you &s;poken <HI>judiciou&s;ly, truly,</HI> and <HI>&s;ea&s;onably,</HI> as <HI>A. S.</HI> hath &s;poken, and no more.
<PB N="6" REF="5"> If he be ca&s;t, you will be condemned. Stand by Mr. <HI>Cranford,</HI> and heare <HI>A. S.</HI> tryed, and in him your &s;elfe.</P>
<P>You were not contented to &s;ay <HI>Imprimatur,</HI> Let it be printed &s;uita|ble to a <HI>Licencer,</HI> but you adde, <HI>I approve to be impre&s;&s;ed.</HI> Whats this great long <HI>(I)</HI> which intimates that nothing above the length there|of, or without the cranie of his great <HI>(C)</HI> approving it, mu&s;t be prin|ted? This makes <HI>I. C.</HI> wor&s;e then the <HI>B B.</HI> Their Chaplains might li|cence many things, if not contrary to the orthodox doctrine and good manners. They would licence a book <HI>endeavouring to prove there was a world in the Moon, Novitatis ergo</HI> (its their own expre&s;&s;ion) though they did not beleeve the thing. But <HI>C</HI> the half Moon will licence no|thing but what falls within the &s;emicircle of his approbation.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>To the right reverend Divines, the Authors of the Apologeticall Nar|ration.</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">The Epi&s;tle.</NOTE></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>The Authors of the Apologeticall Narration de&s;ire more of your <HI>right,</HI> though they have le&s;&s;e of your <HI>reverence.</HI> Had I written a book with &s;o much <HI>unreverence,</HI> I would either have blotted out my title <HI>Right Reverend,</HI> or el&s;e I &s;hould never have put in that Epi&s;copall &s;tile, <HI>Mo&s;t Reverend,</HI> and <HI>Right Reverend,</HI> &s;eeing the <HI>Bi&s;hops</HI> are going. For to &s;troke in the title, and to &s;trike in the book, is but flattery, if not gro&s;&s;e di&s;&s;imulation. Or as to &s;ay, <HI>Art thou in health my brother, and in the meane while to &s;trike under the fift rib.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>The high e&s;teem I have ever had of your per&s;ons, &amp;c. except onely in your particular opinions, wherein the di&s;&s;ent from all Prote&s;tant, yea all Chri|&s;tian Churches in the world.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Now let the Prote&s;tant Churches (to whom you &s;ay you &s;ubmit) judge whether in the&s;e words, there be not a notorious un|truth. For wherein do the five Mini&s;ters and their Churches differ from many Churches in <HI>England,</HI> diver&s;e in <HI>Holland,</HI> and generally all within the Patent of <HI>New-England,</HI> if you account the&s;e places Prote&s;tant?</P>
<P>It may be you will object, Mr. <HI>Parkers Letter and &s;ome Manu&s;eripts from New-England, and the Letter from Zealand.</HI> To Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> his Let|ter we need &s;ay little, the Letter will an&s;wer for us, though Mr. <HI>Par|ker</HI> little thought when he wrote it, to find an <HI>A. S.</HI> in <HI>England,</HI> or that his brother <HI>Bayly</HI> would have printed his Letter &s;eemingly to antici|pate the di&s;putation of the A&s;&s;embly, as if he meant to beg the que|&s;tion, though but with &s;hews and &s;hadows.</P>
<P N="1">1 Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> &s;ayth not one word for a <HI>Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyterie,</HI> (the
<PB N="7" REF="5"> main difference in hand) but for a <HI>Congregationall,</HI> that he would have in &s;ome things more managed by the Presbyters of every Con|gregation, without putting every thing to the vote of the people of the Congregation, becau&s;e &s;ome <HI>confu&s;ion</HI> hath followed upon it. Doth in nece&s;&s;aries abu&s;e take away the u&s;e? There was confu&s;ion in the Church of <HI>Corinth.</HI> Or is there any mention of this in the A|pologie, that all bu&s;ine&s;&s;es of the Church mu&s;t be put to the vote of the Congregation?</P>
<P N="2">2 That in that thing onely there hath been an arguing on both fides. Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> and Mr. <HI>Noy&s;e</HI> only are mentioned in the letter, to be on the one &s;ide, and all the other Churches on the other, again&s;t Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> and Mr. <HI>Noy&s;e.</HI> And thirdly, Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> doth not &s;ay he won the day, but as he an&s;wered their Arguments (as he &s;aith) &s;o he confe&s;&s;eth they an&s;wered his Arguments, and the thing is left to con&s;ideration. Yea a godly man of New-England told me that the Churches of New-England did conceive that Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> had recei|ved full &s;atisfaction from them in that point. How ever it were all amounts but to a private letter &s;ub&s;cribed by one man, yet <HI>Impri|matur</HI> &s;aith <HI>I. C.</HI> as if much to the purpo&s;e. But look but a little af|terward to our an&s;wer to a Letter from Zealand, and you &s;hall find the judgement of New-England in letters newly come over.</P>
<P>To any private copies or Manu&s;cripts from New-England: one Mr. <HI>Rutherfoard</HI> hath an&s;wered, as too much jumping with the Apo|logie and oppo&s;ite to <HI>Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyterie.</HI> Another, if it had come forth, would have been keener again&s;t <HI>A. S.</HI> then the Apologie is. So that if the Apologie do differ from that, its onely becau&s;e the Apologie more agrees with the reformed Churches of this I&s;land. And for the third, it hath nothing at all for a <HI>Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyterie,</HI> but &s;ome things touching the ordering of Congregationall Pre&s;|byteries, and all the&s;e are but private intelligencers, and mutuall advicers, not determinations or Nationall. No more then, I &s;up|po&s;e, Mr. <HI>Cranford</HI> or <HI>A. S.</HI> will account the &s;trange <HI>Queries</HI> on the Apologie and Scotch Commi&s;&s;ioners Reply to be the &s;ence of New-England, though but of one man of that Countrey.</P>
<P>As for the Letter of <HI>Zealand,</HI> I cannot tell how to &s;peake all the truth, and not offend &s;ome, whom by my will I would not in the lea&s;t di&s;plea&s;e. Sure this will not offend to tell <HI>A. S.</HI> that in <HI>Holland,</HI> if not in <HI>Zealand,</HI> are &s;ome Churches that are fully with the five Mi|ni&s;ters, unto which &s;ome of them do relate. And to &s;peak the&s;e things
<PB N="6" REF="6">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="7" REF="6">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="8" REF="7"> to the Letter it &s;elfe, being matters of fact, I hope cannot ju&s;tly of|fend. 1. That that Letter came admirably punctuall upon the ve|ry nick after the fir&s;t reply to the Apol. was out. 2. That a Scotti&s;h Knight nine or ten dayes before it was known abroad, that it was to come, &s;aid, <HI>What if yee receive a Letter from Zealand, di&s;liking the Apologie?</HI> or to that effect. 3. That there is a Scotti&s;h Church (of which one Spang is a very bu&s;ie agent) at <HI>Trevere,</HI> hard by <HI>Middle|borough,</HI> whence the Letter came. 4. That there are in it many high pa&s;&s;ages, &s;eeming &s;o prejudiciall to our worghy Magi&s;tracy, that it ju&s;tifies that of the Apologie, &s;aying, <HI>That the five Mini|&s;ters, &amp;c. give more to the Civill Magi&s;trates, then the principles of &s;ome Presbyterians do.</HI> The &s;aid Letter giving &s;o <HI>too little</HI> to the Magi&s;tracy, that the State of <HI>England,</HI> I thinke, cannot approve it here among us. <HI>Verbum &s;apienti &s;at e&s;t.</HI> More may be thought, upon evident grounds, but not &s;poken here. 5. Mo&s;t happily by almo&s;t a miraculary pro|vidence in this nick of time came two Letters from <HI>New-England</HI> to countermand Mr. <HI>Parkers</HI> Letter thence, and the other from <HI>Zealand.</HI></P>
<P>The fir&s;t from Mr. <HI>Winthrop</HI> Governor of <HI>New-England, To his Reve|rend, and very good Brother, Mr.</HI> Hugh Peters <HI>Mini&s;ter of the Go&s;pel, the&s;e deliver in London. Our late A&s;&s;embly of about fourtie Elders met, wherein the way of our Churches was approved, and the Presbytery di&s;allowed.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Winthrop, Governor. Decemb.</HI> 10th. 1643.</P>
<P>The &s;econd from another of <HI>New-England,</HI> to another Mini&s;ter in <HI>Old-England,</HI> about the &s;ame time, wherein we have the&s;e pa&s;&s;ages. <HI>We have had,</HI> &s;ayth he, <HI>a Synod lately in our Colledge, wherein &s;undry things were agreed on gravely, as, That the votes of the people are needfull in all ad|mi&s;&s;ions and excommunications, at lea&s;t in way of con&s;ent; all yeelding to act with their con&s;ent.</HI> 2. <HI>That tho&s;e that are fit matter for a Church, though they are not alwayes able to make large and particular relations of the worke and doctrine of faith, yet mu&s;t not live in the commi&s;&s;ion of any known &s;in, or the neglect of any known dutie.</HI> 3. <HI>That con&s;ociation of Churches in way of more generall meetings yeerly, and more private monethly or quarterly, as Con&s;ulta|tive Synods are very comfortable and nece&s;&s;ary for the peace and good of the Churches.</HI> 4. <HI>It was generally de&s;ired that the exercitium of the Churches power, might onely be in the Elder&s;hip in each particular Church, unle&s;&s;e their times be apparent in their worke.</HI> 5. <HI>That pari&s;hes Churches in Old Eng|land could not be right without a renewed Covenant at lea&s;t, and the refu&s;ers excluded. And were not New-England &s;o farre, the Churches of New-Eng|land</HI>
<PB N="9" REF="7"> <HI>would &s;oon &s;end a third, punctually to approve the Apologie, unle&s;&s;e it be for their neerer complyance with them who notwith&s;tanding have written a|gain&s;t them.</HI></P>
<P>We have been the longer in an&s;wer to this clau&s;e, becau&s;e we find <HI>A. S.</HI> to be but the Text of other mens Commentary di&s;cour&s;es; who &s;ay, That <HI>the five Mini&s;ters will oppo&s;e all the vi&s;ible Chri&s;tian Chur|ches in the world.</HI> If they did, it were not &s;uch a wonder, as for one <HI>Wickliff</HI> in one age, one <HI>Hu&s;&s;e</HI> in another, and <HI>Luther</HI> in a third to op|po&s;e all the world.</P>
<P>The truth is, all Churches generally, partly by tyrannie, and partly by &s;ecuritie, are grown &s;o corrupt, that to apologize for a through Reformation &s;eems to reprove all, and &s;o all are readie to be offended, that are le&s;&s;e reformed. We have heard of &s;ad &s;tories of late but true, (not teld in a corner) of the <HI>lamentable over-&s;preading of Popery, Athei&s;me, drunkenne&s;&s;e in &s;ome Kingdoms, and adulterie, forma|litie, &amp;c. in others.</HI> If we reform but in part, by halves, imitating <HI>Hen.</HI> 8. towards the Pope, <HI>cutting off the head of Prelacie, and &s;itting down in their chair, (&s;imilia non &s;unt contraria)</HI> as Mr. <HI>Davenport</HI> meeting with a Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyterie in his way to New-England, &s;aid they were but thirteen Bi&s;hops, for one) the cry of the &s;in again&s;t our light and opportunitie will call back our reeling Reformation (like will ha&s;ten to like) an unble&s;t po&s;ture will leave us unhealed of our &s;ins; and our &s;ins will make us become any thing. Had not the Abbeys been pulled down, the <HI>Priories</HI> &s;ince had had opportunitie to have ri&s;en. Therefore <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> grinds the Idol to powder, that it might be quite aboli&s;hed. I &s;peak all this by way of &s;uppo&s;ition, what &s;hall upon full debate be found to be the <HI>idol,</HI> the <HI>ne&s;t</HI> of Pope|rie, the <HI>chaire</HI> of Prelacie, the <HI>half-reformation.</HI></P>
<P>Thus of your charging the five Mini&s;ters with di&s;&s;enting from all <HI>Prote&s;tant</HI> Churches. The expre&s;&s;ion that follows is a mo&s;t gro&s;&s;e one. That they differ from all <HI>Chri&s;tian</HI> Churches. I &s;ay gro&s;&s;e in two things. 1 To call <HI>them Churches,</HI> and <HI>Chri&s;tian,</HI> that are not Prote|&s;tant (and <HI>ergo</HI> are Popi&s;h) now &s;ince the Councell of Trent, wherein they gave Chri&s;t a bill of divorce (as the learned a&s;&s;ert) anathe|matizing mo&s;t of his maine truths. The popi&s;h (notwith&s;tand|ing a few Saints in &s;ecret here and there) are in a dependence on Antichri&s;t. 2 To charge it as a crime on the five Mini&s;ters to dif|fer from them, when as it is a &s;in and &s;hame not to di&s;&s;ent from them. If you di&s;&s;ent not from them, you will never kindly di&s;&s;ent from the entitled Mo. <HI>R. A. BB.</HI> and Rt. Rev. BB. I ob&s;erve that men
<PB N="10" REF="8"> in their Replies &s;ecretly afore they are aware run to the popi&s;h marks of a Church, <HI>viz. vi&s;ibilitie, &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, univer&s;alitie.</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">&rindx;</NOTE></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You as my &s;elf, are but men, yet ye know but in part, and con&s;equently may erre.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Yet this one man thinks he hath more knowledge to his part then the other five Mini&s;ters, or el&s;e &s;ure he would not &s;o bold|ly condemne them of erring, in a point which all the A&s;&s;embly have not yet determined; and &s;o peremptorily acquit him&s;elf.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I thought this which is the que&s;tion between you and all the Churches in the Chri&s;tian world.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>This untruth comes thick upon us, <HI>that the Apol. differs from all the Chri&s;tian world.</HI> It is intimated in the title. It is expre&s;&s;ed in the very beginning of the Epi&s;tle, and here again, and once more in 3. pag. of the Ep. and once in Con&s;id. 5. and how oft more in the book I do not yet know, till I find as I go. We have an&s;wered it once for all in the thre&s;hold of this Epi&s;tle.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I e&s;teemed it no le&s;&s;e a part of my dutie and Chri&s;tian libertie, as a man to oppo&s;e my &s;elf to five men: then for five men to oppo&s;e five hundred thou&s;and, &amp;c.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Hear ye, O all ye men on earth, that <HI>A.</HI> S. &s;aith it is his <HI>Chri&s;tian libertie</HI> to oppo&s;e the five Mini&s;ters. But the whole &s;cope of his book is to rebuke them upon &s;uppo&s;ition that they do oppo&s;e others, whiles they tell them wherein they agree with them. One in&s;tance follows at the heel of his <HI>Chri&s;tian libertie;</HI> to which by and by. Mean while, Reader, ob&s;erve how this mans words do &s;mell <HI>popi&s;bly</HI> (though I think the man to be a reall Prote&s;tant) as if came from Rome, intimating as if <HI>vi&s;ibilitie, univer&s;alitie,</HI> and &s;o <HI>pluralitie</HI> of voices of learned men, might be an unerring, or very certain ar|gument. He &s;peaks as if he had forgot or never heard of <HI>Wickliff,</HI> many yeers after him <HI>Hu&s;&s;e,</HI> long after him <HI>Luther</HI> oppo&s;ing ju&s;tly the whole world, as we all religiou&s;ly maintain at this day. And that one <HI>Paphnutius</HI> oppo&s;ed a whole Councell (mi&s;taken in a point) which is upon record of Hi&s;torie, to his great honour to this day.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Five men to oppo&s;e &s;o many learned men, &s;o many holy Divines, hun|dreds, and thou&s;ands for one of you, no way inferiour to the learned&s;t and be&s;t among you, and not onely to particular men and Divines, but to &s;o many, yea and tho&s;e the mo&s;t pure, and mo&s;t reformed Churches of the world, amongst whom there have been found &s;o many thou&s;ands who have &s;ealed Chri&s;ts truth with the lo&s;&s;e of their goods, impri&s;onment of their bodies, by exile of their per&s;ons, yea with their deare&s;t blood, and lives, who if they wrote not mira|cles,</HI>
<PB N="11" REF="8"> <HI>yet God declared his almightie power in working miracles about them, &amp;c.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Here we have in <HI>form</HI> (and I will not &s;ay how much more) a <HI>Popi&s;h</HI> argument, I will not &s;ay a <HI>mopi&s;h</HI> argument, I abhor flying on men in &s;tead of <HI>matter.</HI> To this I will &s;peak, and then they that will be deceived let them be deceived. Fir&s;t, you <NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Doctrines &amp; practi&s;es prove men good, not men, doctrines and practi&s;es good.</NOTE> dub &s;uch a num|ber of men and people Saints, <HI>mo&s;t reformed, learned no way inferiour to the learned&s;t, and be&s;t among the five Mini&s;ters,</HI> as if you knew perfectly all mens &s;pirits, mens lives in all places in the world, and the five Mini&s;ters parts, &amp;c. <HI>intus &amp; in cute.</HI> Then &s;econdly, as before you came, what <HI>R. Reverend and mo&s;t Reverend</HI> (I de&s;ire to &s;peake it no o|ther way then with a Chri&s;tian griefe and anger again&s;t &s;uch So|phi&s;mes) &s;o now you Cant to us as it were the Popi&s;h Prelaticall <HI>Letanie,</HI> and <HI>Te Deum,</HI> As if by the <HI>temptations and fa&s;tings,</HI> by the <HI>pa&s;|&s;ions,</HI> by the <HI>deaths and burialls of &s;uffering Chri&s;tians; The noble armie of Martyrs prai&s;ing the holy Church throughout all the world acknowledging,</HI> you would conjure us to yeeld any thing upon pluralitie of voyces, or topick arguments, that may and are turned every way, and u&s;ed by all &s;orts good and bad for their own wayes.</P>
<P N="1">1. Men <HI>living in a notorious &s;inne</HI> of gro&s;&s;e u&s;ury, unju&s;t enclo&s;ures, monopoliting, &amp;c. Fir&s;t, They will tell you of &s;everall Mini&s;ters, &amp;c. very holy men; and then &s;econdly, They will tell you that tho&s;e Mini&s;ters do approve of tho&s;e things.</P>
<P N="2">2. The <HI>Malignants now cry,</HI> that &s;o many good Lords, &s;o many Parliament men, mo&s;t of two Kingdomes are for the King, <HI>Ergo,</HI> the King doth well, beleeve it who &s;o will. <NOTE PLACE="marg">A touch on W. R. his book, called, <HI>The grave Confu|tation,</HI> &amp;c.</NOTE></P>
<P>The <HI>Papi&s;ts</HI> proclaime, that they have pluralitie of voyces, Mar|tyrs, &amp;c. <HI>Ergo,</HI> they are in the right.</P>
<P>So the <HI>Prelacie</HI> tell us, that of Bi&s;hops were many Martyrs (to which <HI>Smectymnuus</HI> an&s;wers) by them was compo&s;ed the Liturgie, and they have a thou&s;and for one for them, (&s;o they had formerly) and mo&s;t of the learned Doctors, &amp;c. Scholars, Divines and Lawyers were for them, therefore they were in the right.</P>
<P>Then &s;ome of our re&s;pected brethren of the reputed <HI>godly Non-Conformi&s;ts</HI> come in a title of a book thus, <HI>A mo&s;t grave and mode&s;t Con|futation of the errors of the &s;ect commonly called</HI> (as <HI>W. R.</HI> &s;ayth) <HI>Browni&s;ts or Seperati&s;ts</HI> (&s;o his skill writes it for <HI>Separati&s;ts) agreed <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 span"> by the joynt con&s;ent of &s;undry godly and learned Mini&s;ters of this Kingdomes then &s;tanding out and &s;uffering in the cau&s;e of Inconformitie, and now publi&s;h|ed in a time of need</HI> <NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">What now all, or the grea|te&s;t part of them, come to our publick meetings, and the Apol. di&s;|claims Separa|tion, &amp; Brow|ni&s;me? unle&s;&s;e you would drive them to corners again.</NOTE> <HI>&amp;c. again&s;t that pernicious evill. Publi&s;hed by W. R.</HI>
<PB N="12" REF="9"> As if their &s;ufferings were a &s;eale of the ju&s;t length of reformation, how far we mu&s;t go, and no further. When as the mo&s;t of them &s;tood only upon the negative part, <HI>What they would not have,</HI> but only a few declared po&s;itively, of which &s;ome for a Congregational presbytery or Church-way, be it, or be it not, <HI>a pernicious evill,</HI> as <HI>W. R.</HI> calls it. God forbid, that if we have &s;uffered for Chri&s;t, in the behalfe of any piece of truth, that therefore we &s;hould pride up our &s;elves as having done &s;o much; or &s;tint our &s;elves from proceeding further in know|ledge, or affright our &s;elves from &s;uffering more, if more truths be to be <HI>contended for,</HI> as the Apo&s;tle &s;peaks; or lea&s;t of all through the &s;ides of <HI>Browni&s;me</HI> or <HI>Separation,</HI> to wound the truth and Saints of Je&s;us Chri&s;t, ju&s;t in the nick of &s;uch reproachings ca&s;t upon them that di&s;|claime in words and practi&s;e all pernicious Browni&s;me, &amp;c. It can|not be forgotten that the choice&s;t doctrines held in <HI>England,</HI> have been called pernicious here&s;ie. And therefore it is an high peremp|torine&s;&s;e in a generall title to call all tho&s;e things <HI>pernicious evils,</HI> &s;ome of which are truths. We have, and do di&s;claim <HI>Separation</HI> and <HI>Browni&s;me,</HI> properly &s;o called.</P>
<P>But if the <HI>Pope</HI> or the <HI>Devill</HI> <NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Mark. 1. 24.</NOTE> confe&s;&s;e Chri&s;t, we will not therefore call that truth, <HI>a pernicious evill.</HI> I &s;uppo&s;e all that <HI>W. R.</HI> booke &s;ets forth in heads, and Chapters, as to be confuted, are &s;ome of tho&s;e things he means are <HI>pernicious evils.</HI> As,
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. That <HI>pag.</HI> 8. <HI>Many pari&s;h-Churches are not rightly gathered,</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. That <HI>p.</HI> 11. <HI>That they Communicate in a fal&s;e and idolatrous wor|&s;hip, as &s;tinted prayers, Homilies, Catechi&s;mes.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>3. That <HI>p.</HI> 17. <HI>They want that Di&s;cipline and order which Chri&s;t in his Te&s;tament hath appointed for the government of his Church.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>4. That <HI>p.</HI> 50. <HI>That it is objected again&s;t them, that the ignorant and prophane multitude are admitted to all priviledges of the Churches.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
<P>Are the&s;e (we give but a ta&s;te) <HI>pernicious evills?</HI> Then you con|demne <HI>Smectymnuus</HI> for writing, the Parliament and A&s;&s;embly for removing and about to remove the&s;e exceptions; And mo&s;t presby|terian Mini&s;ters in <HI>London</HI> for forbearing to give Communions to &s;uch multitudes. Mr. <HI>Calamy</HI> &s;ayd, that <HI>an impo&s;ed Liturgie was idola|trie.</HI> And our worthy brethren of Scotland ju&s;tly &s;tood up again&s;t the&s;e enormities. No wonder therefore if <HI>W. R.</HI> book abound with weakne&s;&s;es &amp; impertinencies, in &s;tead of Confutation of &s;uch things as the&s;e. For I patronage not any fal&s;e or unadvi&s;ed &s;peeches of <HI>Barrow,</HI> or &amp;c. there u&s;ed.</P>
<P N="3">3. <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;aying, <HI>That the Apologi&s;ts differ from the mo&s;t reformed Chur|ches</HI>
<GAP DESC="missing" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="4 pages">
<PB N="17" REF="9"> <HI>in the world.</HI> Some of which he knows are in Holland, more in England, mo&s;t in New-England, all publick Churches, if he &s;peakes not fal&s;ly, or ignorantly; yet begging the Que&s;tion, whether the Churches named, or the Cla&s;&s;icall presbyterian are mo&s;t reformed?</P>
<P>To clo&s;e our an&s;wer to this, tell us no more of your mutitudes, the Lord keepe us all from the <HI>broad way that leadeth to de&s;truction,</HI> though <HI>many there be therein.</HI> One <HI>Phinees,</HI> one <HI>Elijah</HI> left alone in the eye of the world, two again&s;t thou&s;ands, <HI>viz. Caleb</HI> and <HI>Jo&s;uah</HI> in the truth are more to be honoured, then &s;warmes of &s;warvers (I judge none.) The time is at hand, that <HI>ten men &s;hall take hold of one Jew</HI> <NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Zech. 8. 23.</NOTE>, and &s;o on one true Chri&s;tian. Godly men may be hunted out of a Kingdom, not out of the truth, meane while &s;uch a Kingdom may be without them, but nere the more without judgements. <HI>England</HI> was never quiet, but wor&s;e and wor&s;e, &s;ince it hunted away almo&s;t a little Nation of Saints to <HI>New-England,</HI> though <HI>W. R.</HI> joyning i&s;&s;ue with <HI>A. S.</HI> will follow them, with a blotting pen in print, even to that Kingdom too. Yea and take in his way many Churches in old <HI>England,</HI> and &s;ome that are and lately were in <HI>Holland,</HI> and then have at <HI>New-England,</HI> none comes ami&s;&s;e that have gone an inch in refor|mation beyond <HI>W. R.</HI> his Non-Conformitie. Like him who would &s;trike all that were next him, who e're they were that injured him. And all this worke he cuts out for him&s;elfe in his book he calls <HI>A Narration of &s;ome Church cour&s;es in New-England.</HI></P>
<P>&rindx; O that all Readers that will not be wilfully blind, would by the way ob&s;erve, how <HI>A. S.</HI> condemnes the Apologi&s;ts, as guiltie of di&s;|&s;enting from the Churches in <HI>New-England.</HI> And <HI>W. R.</HI> condemnes them for agreeing with the Churches of <HI>New-England.</HI> So that <HI>A. S.</HI> and <HI>W. R.</HI> do not agree between them&s;elves. But you &s;hall have an An&s;wer to that book of <HI>W. R.</HI> affixed at the end of this book. Meane while wee go forward with <HI>A. S.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am per&s;waded in my Con&s;cience, that your opinion of Independen|cy, &amp;c. if it were admitted (pardon my expre&s;&s;ion till I be better in&s;tru|cted) could not but prove the roote of all &s;orts of Schi&s;me and Here&s;ie, and con|&s;equently the utter overthrow of Chri&s;ts univer&s;all militant Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>If you &s;peake cordially, as &s;uppo&s;ing indeed that you may be better in&s;tructed, it had been be&s;t for you to have &s;tayd for the A&s;&s;emblyes determination, or to have conferred with &s;ome of them you write again&s;t, before you had written and printed that de&s;pe|rate &s;peech, lea&s;t the ink &s;eeme letters of bloud to you at your dy|ing pillow. I warrant you, if what one, or many <HI>&s;ay onely,</HI> would
<PB N="18" REF="10"> make an argument, a multitude would &s;ay, <HI>that a coactive cla&s;&s;icall presbytery would be the root of couched prelacy, and eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Tyranny.</HI> But I will not be one of them to &s;ay &s;o. <HI>Probatum e&s;t;</HI> in <HI>New-England</HI> that which you call <HI>independency,</HI> hath not procured, but cured, or purged out here&s;ies, &s;chi&s;mes, formalitie, prophanene&s;&s;e, more then &s;ome other Kingdoms that &s;o hate and hitt at mi&s;-called <HI>Indepen|dency.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You &s;ue for a Toleration, and con&s;equently for a Separation.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>So then, where Papi&s;ts are tolerated, there they are Sepa|rati&s;ts too. Its but the nown of multitude between, but that the In|dependents in <HI>England</HI> might tolerate, and the presbyterians might be tolerated, would they then be Separati&s;ts? Who de&s;ires &s;eparati|on? but rather union in the truth. If any hold the truth, and &s;tum|ble, though of weaknes, at &s;ome &s;maller matters (as you count them) it is your dutie to &s;uffer them, and to <HI>beare with the weak,</HI> and not <HI>of|fend the con&s;ciences of brethren;</HI> or Gods woe is by him pronounced again&s;t you.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I may adde to all the&s;e your undervaluing of the Parliaments great favour towards you. For yee know brethren, how they notwith&s;tanding your former &s;eparation from all other Churches, &amp;c. invited you to be members of this A&s;&s;embly, had not they given you the capacitie, yee had been altogether in|capable. And not onely that, but they honoured one of you with the high fa|vour of &s;ending one of you with their Commi&s;&s;ioners to Scotland.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>O abominable accu&s;ation, O &s;ycophanti&s;ing in&s;inuation. Who art. <HI>A. S. Cujas.</HI> Can an <HI>Engli&s;h-man,</HI> unje&s;uited, or any Mini|&s;ter unprelati&s;ed, or any man hone&s;ti&s;ed, &s;ay thus? I am di&s;tre&s;&s;ed how to put home to this, and yet prudently. I tell thee, <HI>A. S.</HI> Thy <HI>accu&s;ation</HI> is a gro&s;&s;e fal&s;hood. For their re&s;pect to the Parliament, and their re&s;pect from the Parliament, let many of the choice mem|bers of both Hou&s;es &s;peake, they will &s;oon prove thee a gro&s;&s;e&mdash;. Thy <HI>probation</HI> a &s;illie phanta&s;ie. Did ever any vote of the Parliament, or of the A&s;&s;embly, accu&s;e the Apologie of undervaluing the Parlia|ments favours? None but he that hath <HI>A. S.</HI> as part of his name, would &s;ay &s;o. For all di&s;creet men &s;ee plainly, that as the <HI>forme</HI> and &s;tile of the Apologie is mo&s;t &s;weet, &s;o the <HI>matter</HI> now in hand &s;o much as is there intimated, is the que&s;tion. Can that be an offence to the Parliament, for the five Mini&s;ters to propound that of the things they are to debate (by Ordinance of Parliament) which is to them the que&s;tion, making it ready, and leaving it for debate in the A&s;|&s;embly? Yea, whether the whole draught of the Apologie be to be
<PB N="19" REF="10"> condemned or commended by the Parliament, that is al&s;o a que&s;ti|on yet unre&s;olved, by Parliament, A&s;&s;embly, and a con&s;iderable part of Citie and Kingdome. Therefore why doth one <HI>A. S.</HI> pre&s;umptu|ou&s;ly make it a crime again&s;t the Parliament? Since the thrice wor|thy <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>March</HI> 13. 1643.</NOTE> Parliament had it in debate in the hou&s;e, being put on by the Letters from <HI>Middleborough</HI> in <HI>Zealand,</HI> and upon the &s;peech of lear|ned Mr. <HI>Seldon,</HI> and others, they re&s;olved with a generall acclama|tion, that the Apologie was to be left as it was found, <HI>unblamed.</HI> The God of heaven in much mercy ble&s;&s;e the Parliament, as for all the good they have done, &s;o for their uprightne&s;&s;e therein. The joy of the Churches is now as high as their &s;orrows would have been deep, had it been condemned. For it would to them have been not onely a dolefull ante, or anti, but-anticipating-pre&s;age. But ble&s;&s;ed be our Parliament-guiding God; that as they had no hand in the Apologie, &s;o they would have no hand again&s;t it. Therefore away <HI>A. S. Operam &amp; oleum perdidi&s;ti</HI> (as the Starling &s;aid to the Emperour, having &s;aluted him in vaine with <GAP LANG="grc" DESC="foreign" RESP="OXF">) you have lo&s;t your labour. The Parliament de&s;pi&s;e &s;ycophanti&s;ing Collogueing; (Are you as wi&s;e as that bird to &s;ee that, it &s;aid?); and on the other &s;ide they do not repent of what honour they conferred on Mr. <HI>Nye,</HI> and through <NOTE PLACE="marg">For the Parlia|ment in wi&s;|dome cho&s;e &s;ome Epi&s;co|pall men to be of the A&s;&s;em|bly, to plead their owne cau&s;e if they could. Some of which &s;ince ca&s;t out them|&s;elves, and o|thers were ca&s;t out.</NOTE> him on his brethren of the &s;ame judgement. They could not but think (what ever you dreame) but that the five Mini&s;ters were in as neere a capacitie to be of the A&s;&s;embly, &amp;c. being native Engli&s;h|men, and again&s;t the Epi&s;copacy, as either tho&s;e of other Nations, or tho&s;e of our owne, in judgement holding for Epi&s;copacy; and &s;tanding for the ju&s;t and lawfull authoritie of Magi&s;tracy as either.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>The Apol. Narration conteining (how ever you name it) a &s;ingular de&s;ire of &s;eparation from</HI> them, <HI>that &s;o cheri&s;h you, with &s;ome unworthy nick|names put upon them, who &s;tyle you by no wor&s;e names then brethren.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>What ever names <HI>A. S.</HI> puts upon this his booke, as Annot. Con&s;id. Notes &s;ure enough <HI>(Nigro carbone notandus. Hic Niger e&s;t, hunc tu Romane caveto,)</HI> it is not candid; but holds forth <HI>A. S.</HI> his &s;ingular de&s;ire of making divi&s;ion, if he could, either between the Parliament and the Brethren, or between them and our deere&s;t brethren of <HI>Scot|land,</HI> if <HI>M. S.</HI> do rightly divine what he meanes by them. <HI>God</HI> and <HI>man</HI> hates this thy de&s;igne (O <HI>A. S.) Six things the Lord hates, yea &s;e|ven</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Prov. 6. 16.</NOTE> <HI>are abomination to him. A proud looke, a lying tongue, an heart that de|vi&s;eth wicked imaginations, a fal&s;e witne&s;&s;e, that &s;peaketh lyes, him that &s;ow|eth di&s;cord among brethren, &amp; caetera</HI> (for I have named enough for <HI>A. S.</HI> to make his choice.) And I am informed that the worthy Commi&s;|&s;ioners
<PB N="20" REF="11"> of <HI>Scotland</HI> (nobly done) do utterly di&s;like <HI>A. S.</HI> his booke. From whom we have far more evident and effectuall &s;ymptomes of their cordiall love, then the word <HI>Brethren.</HI> Which with <HI>A. S.</HI> in his book is nothing but <HI>Complementall di&s;&s;imulation;</HI> for his Epi&s;tle begins as it were with <HI>ki&s;&s;ing,</HI> viz. Right reverend and deare <HI>Brethren.</HI> And his booke is biting. So that as he u&s;eth the word <HI>Brethren,</HI> it is much to the &s;ame &s;ence as a para&s;iticall Mini&s;ter being to preach an odde fellowes funerall, did u&s;e the words of that decea&s;ed mans Will, <HI>viz. In the name of God, Amen:</HI> (this &s;torie is proper for <HI>A. S.</HI> if he hath any skill in the Law, for I cannot yet be certaine what he is:) &s;ayth the Prie&s;t (being put to it for matter for his Trentall Panegyrick) <HI>See the devotion of this decea&s;ed brother; he begins his Will with, In the name of God, Amen.</HI> A fillie goo&s;e. For its as common for all good and bad to begin their Wills &s;o (as <HI>A. S.</HI> knows if a Lawyer) as for <HI>A. S.</HI> to call <HI>Brethren,</HI> and to bawl forth reviling all along his book.</P>
<P>As for the Nick-names <HI>A. S.</HI> chargeth upon the five Mini&s;ters, with which they &s;hould nick-name I know not whom, he names them not; which makes me thinke, he hath no skill in Law. He knows that <HI>Dolus latet in univer&s;alibus,</HI> or to u&s;e his own words. <HI>p.</HI> 47. <HI>Sermones generales non movent,</HI> we cannot an&s;wer to generalls; nor can he find them in the Apologie. What a Phari&s;ee may phanta&s;ie, that will not have mens defects intimated as they &s;tand in the crowd of all Chri&s;tendom, I know not. I am &s;ure the worthy Commi&s;&s;ioners piou&s;ly confe&s;&s;e <HI>their Churches may be yet further reformed;</HI> and what re|ligious men will not &s;igh forth the &s;ame, touching their own native Countries?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What el&s;e have yee done but erected one A&s;&s;embly in the A&s;&s;embly, by private authoritie again&s;t publick; taking private re&s;olutions again&s;t pub|lick.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>O gro&s;&s;e, yet he will follow <HI>Machiavels</HI> coun&s;ell that &s;ayd, <HI>Calumniare audacter, aliquid adhaerebit,</HI> If men mu&s;t not &s;peak, write, or preach any thing that may relate to &s;omething in debate in the A&s;|&s;embly, then (as it was excellently &s;poken in Parliament,) Mini&s;ters may write and &s;ay nothing at all. Divers print and preach for the Presbyterie, yet of the A&s;&s;embly. Are they all a private particular A&s;&s;embly?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Sundry rea&s;ons made me to &s;u&s;pect, that yee would &s;ay more then yee &s;ay.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>And what then? Did you think by this your reply to hu&s;h them? No readier way to make them or their friends to &s;ay more then either they intended, or you would willingly heare. Yet con|fe&s;&s;e
<PB N="21" REF="11"> one truth; <HI>That there hath been two replyes to them already, yet they have printed no reply</HI> (that we know of) for that you mean (I &s;up|po&s;e) by &s;aying more. El&s;e, God forbid, but they &s;hould &s;peake, and &s;peake in the A&s;&s;embly too; though one &s;ayd, <HI>He had much adoe to forbear moving to have one of them to be ca&s;t out of the A&s;&s;embly, for pro|pounding his rea&s;on to the que&s;tion, to which he was called by order of Parlia|ment.</HI> But for you <HI>A. S.</HI> you would make a &s;tone &s;peake (as they &s;ay.) If you beleeve not the Poet, <HI>Si natura negat, facit indignatio ver&s;um;</HI> yet beleeve the Scripture; <HI>Oppre&s;&s;ion would make a wi&s;e man</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Eccle&s;. 7. 7.</NOTE> <HI>madde.</HI></P>
<P><MILESTONE UNIT="M. R."> But let me tell you now of one that is of your judgement for the Presbyterie, but by farre a more &s;olid and di&s;creet man then your &s;elf, that &s;aid, <HI>There was this good by the Apologie, that therein thc five Mini&s;ters had wrapt up them&s;elves that they could not &s;ay more in &s;ub&s;tance of tenet then was therein expre&s;&s;ed. Nor could they recede from that compliance with you they had therein profe&s;&s;ed.</HI> So you &s;ee you Presbyterians may differ among your &s;elves, no wonder therefore if from the five Mi|ni&s;ters.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I love you all from my heart.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Good Reader, compare this mans book with his heart. And good writer (if I do not mi&s;-call thee) judge whether in your book you act the part of a loving Phy&s;itian, were your potion never &s;o cordiall, in that you admini&s;ter it &s;calding hot? though you flat|ter till its poured down the throat.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>The will is but a blind facultie.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Now where is your <HI>Phylo&s;ophie?</HI> Is there an unrea&s;onable facultie in the rea&s;onable &s;oul, that hath no light but by participa|tion? This is news to con&s;iderate Phylo&s;ophers, that do not take things upon tru&s;t, by tradition, of &s;peculative untried principles.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>My main ayme has been, Gods glorie, and the edification of weake brethren, who may have been mi&s;led by your mo&s;t learned di&s;cour&s;e.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Yet this man in his 1 Annot. pag. 4. &s;aith, <HI>It comes very &s;hort, is weak and &s;lender, and no way &s;atisfactorie.</HI> The man makes nothing of contradictions, upon contradictions; for even here al&s;o is a con|tradiction or two more. Are the five Mini&s;ters di&s;cour&s;e mo&s;t learn|ed, and yet errour too, as you &s;aid in the beginning of your Epi&s;tle? And are they mo&s;t learned, and yet le&s;&s;e learned then you?</P>
<P>But indeed (&s;aid one) <HI>he makes a great noi&s;e of learning in his booke, ratling his Sophi&s;trie-termes, &s;o that though he hath failed in his Divinitie, Phy&s;ick, and Phylo&s;ophie, hitherto, yet he will make us know that he is a no|table</HI>
<PB N="22" REF="12"> <HI>Logician; or he will make our ears ring with unengli&s;hed Ergoes,</HI> with <HI>A genere ad &s;peciem affirmative,</HI> with a <HI>po&s;&s;e ad e&s;&s;e valet non con&s;equentia. Non po&s;&s;ibile e&s;t e&s;&s;e, po&s;&s;ibile e&s;t non e&s;&s;e, totum, totaliter, materialiter di&s;po&s;itive;</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Page of his book, 53, 54.</NOTE> with his <HI>modifications, a&s;&s;umptions, &amp;c.</HI> and multitudes of &s;uch lum|ber to the weak brethren. O, &s;aid one, that &s;ome body would ear|ne&s;tly intreat him to &s;peak &s;eriou&s;ly whether he thinks in his con|&s;cience this to be his direct way to that end he here profe&s;&s;eth, namely, to <HI>edifie weak brethren?</HI> Alas &s;uch things to them, if engli&s;h|ed, are but gibberi&s;h, and as charms.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>E&s;teeming that during the re&s;t of my pilgrimage which cannot be long, having no other thing to do, I &s;hall do well to do this.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Ile tell you what one &s;aid to this. <HI>Would God he had rather no patient, then he &s;hould have no patience, then the Church &s;hould be his patient, (&s;eeing he hath no more skill in her grief; that he had no clyent, then that he &s;hould be a treacherous Advocate; that he would rather do nothing then evill. For it is a &s;ad thing, &s;aid he, that good men neer their end &s;hould write &s;ome &s;orrie peece, to be a momement of their declining in their la&s;t dayes, and of their di&s;grace before they are buried.</HI> As a worthy man a little afore his death wrote in defence of Ceremonies, for which formerly he had &s;uffered. A warning to <HI>A. S.</HI> and all good men, that their good works &s;hould be more at la&s;t, and &s;o to leave that character to the hypocrites, as one ob&s;erves <HI>to live &s;moothly; towards his end to do &s;orily, and then to dye &s;uddenly.</HI></P>
<P>All that I have to &s;ay to <HI>A. S.</HI> here, is onely to &s;ign over this name <HI>S.</HI> (in foure men) as fatall to this poore England and Scotland (if <HI>Vox populi</HI> doth rightly &s;peak it at length). The fir&s;t too much con|firmed the tyrannicall pride of the Prelates. The &s;econd carried by ill coun&s;ell to foment the&s;e bloodie warres. <HI>A.</HI> 3. <HI>viz.</HI> Doctor <HI>S.</HI> the Civilian or uncivilian Divine &s;pake tho&s;e bloodie words, <HI>viz. Better the Kingdom had run with blood, then that the King &s;hould have concluded that di&s;honourable peace with the Scots.</HI> So he, mo&s;t wickedly.</P>
<P>And the 4. is our <HI>A. S.</HI> here, that hath wounded thou&s;ands in this Citie in the heart, with his pen as grievou&s;ly as tho&s;e Scholars <NOTE PLACE="marg">See Fox in his Book of Mar|tyrs.</NOTE> did their Ma&s;ter Martyr with their penknives.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>His Con&s;iderations.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Truly called Interogatories which <HI>A. S.</HI> puts to the five Mi|ni&s;ters, as if he were already gotten into the Chair, &amp;c.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>His fir&s;t Con&s;ideration. Whether in any Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall or Politick A&s;&s;embly of the Chri&s;tian world wherein things are carried by pluralitie of voices, it be ordinarie for any incon&s;iderable num|ber
<PB N="23" REF="12"> thereof, to joyn in a particular combination among them&s;elves, and therein to take particular re&s;olutions?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>We have heard of &s;ome Parliaments in Europe, that the Hou&s;e of Peers is &s;o con&s;titute <HI>that if a vote pa&s;&s;e where &s;omes con&s;ciences among&s;t them cannot yeeld to, they may mode&s;tly enter in the Hou&s;e their di&s;|&s;ent from it.</HI> But whether this be &s;o or not, the five Mini&s;ters did not take particular re&s;olutions and publi&s;h them in print, to cro&s;&s;e the proceedings and di&s;putes of the A&s;&s;embly; or &s;tate a que&s;tion yet unre&s;olved by the A&s;&s;embly, but onely told the Kingdome <HI>de facto,</HI> what they had held and practi&s;ed, and therefore in the Apologie &s;peake in the <HI>pa&s;t time,</HI> with &s;ome very few and &s;hort touches upon what ground.</P>
<P>Wherein they declare them&s;elves to clo&s;e nearer with the A&s;&s;em|bly, were they all Presbyterian (as we know the contrary) then thou&s;ands ever thought they would.</P>
<P>And withall they do profe&s;&s;e them&s;elves &s;o unwedded to their <NOTE PLACE="marg">See Apol. p. 10. It is their &s;econd golden rule, by which they walked.</NOTE> former practi&s;es, and &s;o far from over-weening their pre&s;ent judge|ments, that upon di&s;covery of more light, they are mo&s;t willing to open their eyes upon it, and let it in. And therefore you <HI>A. S.</HI> have done very ill, to di&s;courage them as much as in you is, from that &s;weetne&s;&s;e of Spirit, that hath appeared in all their writings and carriages.</P>
<P>But our main an&s;wer to this your Con&s;ideration (which makes it a gro&s;&s;e incon&s;ideration, if not untruth) is this, That the A&s;&s;em|bly is not to conclude things by a pluralitie of votes, if you dare be|leeve the Ordinance of Parliament, who&s;e words are <HI>to conferre and treate touching Doctrine, Di&s;cipline, &amp;c. and to deliver their opinions and ad|vices, as &s;hall be mo&s;t agreeable to the word of God.</HI> And <HI>in ca&s;e of difference</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Ordin. for the calling of the A&s;&s;embly, pag. 4. 5.</NOTE> <HI>of Opinion among the &s;aid Divines, they &s;hall pre&s;ent the &s;ame, together with their Rea&s;ons thereof, to the Hou&s;es of Parliament.</HI></P>
<P>Which words, be&s;ides confutation of your <HI>pluralitie of voyces,</HI> doe more then allow &s;o much as is done in the Apologeticall Narration, That being but a Narration of <HI>pa&s;t things.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>His &s;econd Con&s;ideration, <HI>Whether in taking &s;uch re&s;olutions, they &s;hould not con&s;equently re&s;olve them&s;elves to quit the A&s;&s;embly, and to ap|pear as Parties?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>The Antecedent was denied before on the fir&s;t Con&s;id. therefore the con&s;equence is de&s;troyed. And for the <HI>Con&s;equent</HI> or Propo&s;ition it &s;elfe, of the five Mini&s;ters quitting the A&s;&s;embly, and to appeare as parties, for &s;etting forth the Apologie; I utterly di&s;|like
<PB N="24" REF="13"> your motion, as &s;triking at the worthy Commi&s;&s;ioners of <HI>Scot|land,</HI> as if they likewi&s;e &s;hould quitt the A&s;&s;embly for replying to the Apologie. Men of a farre better &s;pirit then you are. And though they be &s;omewhat ingaged in a Settled Presbytery, yet carry them|&s;elves more &s;agely and moderately, then many of our owne men. An honour for them, and a &s;hame for us.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>His fourth Con&s;ideration (and for the third vani&s;heth upon our an|&s;wer to fir&s;t and &s;econd) whether this Apologeticall Narration was nece&s;&s;ary, when yee found the calumnies, mi&s;-takes, mi&s;-apprehen&s;ions of your opinions, and mi&s;ts, that had gathered about you, or were rather ca&s;t upon your per&s;ons in your ab&s;ence, begin by your pre&s;ence againe, and the ble&s;&s;ing of God upon you, to &s;catter and vani&s;h, without &s;peaking a word for your &s;elves and cau&s;e?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea it was. For looke but to the next full period afore; and you &s;hall find that this you repeate as touching that &s;cattering and vani&s;hing of mi&s;ts, doth but relate to the people, and onely to &s;ome of them, <HI>viz. Tho&s;e that profe&s;&s;e or pretend the power of god|line&s;&s;e.</HI> The&s;e mens &s;erene &s;pirits onely, were the beames that began to &s;catter the my&s;ts. And therefore the Apologi&s;ts &s;peake di&s;tinctly and punctually (and not indefinitely as you) in the words you &s;eeme to quote; <HI>viz.</HI> they &s;ay that they found <HI>many</HI> (mark) <HI>many</HI> of tho&s;e mi&s;ts not <HI>all;</HI> And did but <HI>begin</HI> to &s;catter, as you your &s;elfe re|peate. The Apologi&s;ts &s;ay, they did but <HI>begin</HI> to &s;catter. For in the apprehen&s;ion of the Apologi&s;ts, their motion was like the lowrings of an incon&s;tant morning, the mi&s;ts a&s;cend, and anon de&s;cend, and by and by a&s;cend, and turne into a <HI>Scotti&s;h-</HI>mi&s;t, as the Engli&s;h Pro|verb is, <HI>That will wett an Engli&s;le-man to the skinne.</HI> The <HI>mi&s;t went up by the hills; but</HI> (as the other Proverb is) <HI>down by the Mills,</HI> they turned into raine. What mean el&s;e tho&s;e words of the Apologie; <HI>Our eares</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Apo. pag. 1.</NOTE> <HI>have been &s;o filled with a &s;uddain and unexpected noy&s;e of confu&s;ed exclama|tions, in the interpretation of mo&s;t reflecting on us, that awakened thereby, wee are enforced to anticipate a little that di&s;covery of our &s;elves, which wee otherwi&s;e re&s;olved to have left to time.</HI></P>
<P>And tho&s;e words of the Apologie: <HI>Whereas our &s;ilence upon all the fore-mentioned grounds, hath been by the ill interpretation of &s;ome, impu|ted</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Apol. p. 27.</NOTE> <HI>either to our con&s;ciou&s;ne&s;&s;e of the badne&s;&s;e and weakne&s;&s;e of our cau&s;e, or to our inabilitie to maintaine what wee a&s;&s;ert in difference from o|thers, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P>And tho&s;e words of the Apologie; <HI>Since the change of times from</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Apo. p. 31.</NOTE> <HI>our exile, wee have indured that which to our &s;pirits is no le&s;&s;e grievous; the oppo&s;ition and reproach of good men, even to the threatning of another bani&s;h|ment.</HI>
<PB N="25" REF="13"> No doubt but the Apologi&s;ers know what they &s;ay, and what they can &s;ay, if called to &s;peake out. Be&s;ides, if the people had let them alone, &s;hould &s;eeme &s;ome Mini&s;ters would not. O, it was an unhappie Anticipation (O, if the will of God had been to have pre|vented it) that in the very nick, before the A&s;&s;embly met, that two Books &s;hould fore&s;tall the Market, the one penned by a learned <HI>Scot,</HI> and the other by a learned <HI>Engli&s;h-man,</HI> that &s;et the tongues of men &s;o a wame.</P>
<P>Fir&s;t to vomit out upon the five Mini&s;ters Tenet, and next to a|&s;per&s;e their per&s;ons, before the A&s;&s;embly had made one Syllogi&s;me, <HI>Hinc illae lachrymae.</HI> Hence the Apologie (poore meeke thing) was forced to &s;peake; and thereupon <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;o fiercely breathed (I had almo&s;t &s;aid brayed) out again&s;t it &s;o many bitter words.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Tells us in this his 4. Con&s;ideration, <HI>of the honour the Parlia|ment &s;hewed the Apologi&s;ts, in calling them to be members of the A&s;&s;embly</HI> which was enough to ju&s;tifie their per&s;ons from all a&s;per&s;ions, with|out any Apologie.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>To this we an&s;wer; That they and their friends will ever acknowledge the Honorable Parliaments great re&s;pect to them. And &s;o much the more, in the&s;e times wherein great <HI>A. S.</HI> and little &amp;c. do &s;o labour to render them odious. But I think I &s;hould not cro&s;&s;e the &s;ence of the Parliament if I &s;hould not make it an univer|&s;all <HI>major</HI> propo&s;ition: That all whom the Honorable Parliament &s;hall call to be members of the A&s;&s;embly, are <HI>ip&s;o facto</HI> vindicated, from all a&s;pertions; and &s;o to conclude, that all Epi&s;copall prelati|call men that in life and practi&s;e have been&mdash;if they &s;hould be cal|led to be of the A&s;&s;embly, were <HI>eo nomine</HI> vindicated from all a&s;perti|ons. I am &s;ure <HI>de facto</HI> that &s;ome very learned men were called by the &s;weet indulgence of the Honorable Parliament for the common good to be Members of the grave A&s;&s;embly, who &s;ince upon better knowledge of them, are by the Parliament purged out of the A&s;&s;em|bly (a good ridd, the A&s;&s;embly is the better for their ab&s;ence) and &s;ome are at Oxford, &s;ee how <HI>ter&s;e</HI> they be; and &s;ome in pri&s;on, &s;ee how their member&s;hip of the A&s;&s;embly have vindicated them. Be &s;ure of it, that the choice of men for the A&s;&s;embly was to find men good, not to make them &s;o. And two worthy Parliament men of a Countie may not know at fir&s;t all the faults in every Town, or the lint on every black coat. And therefore &s;ince that, the worthy Par|liament hath well bru&s;ht &s;ome.</P>
<P>If the Parliament puts ever &s;o much honour upon the five Mini|&s;ters
<PB N="26" REF="14"> in calling them to the A&s;&s;embly; yet &s;ince many have a&s;per&s;ed them, or &s;ome how laboured to make them odious to Kingdoms and Nations, and who but the order of <HI>A. S.</HI> mainly in&s;tigating. And therefore this fully an&s;wers to your la&s;t <HI>Quaere</HI> in your fourth Con&s;ideration. Whether this Apologie was nece&s;&s;arie after the fir&s;t cloud was nere over? every night mu&s;t be cleared by a new ri&s;e of the Sun.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>His fifth Con&s;ideration, &s;ayth, that <HI>the five Mini&s;ters doe blame</HI> all <HI>Prote&s;tant Churches, as not having the power of godline&s;&s;e, and the profe&s;&s;ion thereof, with difference from carnall and formall Chri&s;ti|ans, advanced and held forth among them as among</HI> you, <HI>which is com|monly thought to be particularly intended again&s;t the</HI> Scots.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Sure it is no otherwi&s;e commonly thought to be particu|larly intended again&s;t the Scots; and generally to blame all Prote|&s;tant Churches, then in or by your common &s;ence deriving <HI>&s;pecies,</HI> vain &s;eemings to your phanta&s;ie, from your outward &s;ences an evill eye ill affected. For the Apologie cals our dear brethren the Scots, the more reformed Churches. And for the words <HI>all,</HI> and <HI>among you,</HI> whereby you would pre&s;ent them &s;etting them&s;elves as an oppo&s;ite member of di&s;tinction to all Prote&s;tant Churches, and blaming them all as undi&s;tingui&s;hed from carnall, and formall Chri&s;tians, in compari&s;on of them and their five Churches; the words <HI>all</HI> and <HI>you</HI> are forged and foy&s;ted in by your &s;elf, and &s;o mu&s;t go for very fal&s;hoods charged upon them. The words of the Apologie are. 1. <HI>That they and many others had but ob&s;erved touching the non advance of the</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Apo. pag. 4.</NOTE> <HI>power of godline&s;&s;e, &amp;c.</HI> among &s;ome, <HI>what them&s;elves had generally ac|knowledged.</HI> The five Mini&s;ters do not charge it, but repeat it as con|fe&s;&s;ed by them&s;elves. 2 It is not &s;aid it was confe&s;&s;ed, and they ob|&s;erved there was <HI>no</HI> power of godline&s;&s;e, but it was not <HI>advanced.</HI> 3 Nor is it &s;aid it was <HI>not advanced,</HI> but not advanced <HI>as in this our I&s;land.</HI> This <HI>I&s;land</HI> being a common phra&s;e, yea and your phra&s;e too in the title of your booke, to &s;ignifie <HI>Scotland</HI> and <HI>England</HI> both.</P>
<P>And then where is that particular intendment again&s;t Scotland; or the five Mini&s;ters laying their Churches in the ballance again&s;t other Churches?</P>
<P>Fourthly and la&s;tly, they &s;peak but <HI>indefinitely</HI> in a contingent matter, and therefore can be con&s;trued but of &s;ome particulars; and therefore did not ayme at <HI>all.</HI> You know how highly they e&s;teeme of New-England, and therefore that is not <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">cluded from the ad|vance
<PB N="27" REF="14"> of the power of godline&s;&s;e, as in this I&s;land of great Britaine Engli&s;h and Scots are included. However, as no man that is a know|ing man either by hear&s;ay or travell over the next Sea, will accu&s;e Scotland as mo&s;t carnall and formall (it were well for the world if in that, &amp;c. others had not farre exceeded them) &s;o none of us, ex|cept Phari&s;ees, will excu&s;e our Nations of remi&s;ne&s;&s;e in advancing the power of godline&s;&s;e in apparent view above carnalitie and for|malitie.</P>
<P>You &s;ee by our an&s;wer to the Apologie, that not that Apologie but your <HI>will</HI> cau&s;ed you to &s;peak that which is not by wi&s;e men once to be mentioned at this time, as if the Apologi&s;ts intended to &s;ay any the lea&s;t thing to grieve our brethren the Scots.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>His &s;eventh Con&s;ideration (for the &s;ixth is non-&s;ence, unle&s;&s;e wee put the interrogatorie point at Anabapti&s;ts, and &s;o <HI>A. S.</HI> to take unto him and them, he ranks him&s;elf with all, calling them <HI>us,</HI> I &s;ay, to take to him and them the Browni&s;ts &amp; Anabapti&s;ts to be of his partie. Reader, view his &s;ixth Con&s;ideration, whether you can make &s;ence of it, I cannot, nor any thing of con&s;equence; therefore an&s;wer not unto it) his &s;eventh Con&s;ideration, I &s;ay, in|terrogates thus: <HI>Many are de&s;irous to know whether this Apologeticall Narration publi&s;hed by you five alone, be in the name of you five alone, or of all tho&s;e al&s;o, or a part of tho&s;e whom ye pretend to hold your tenets: if in the name of you five onely, whether ye five can arrogate a power unto your &s;elves to main|tain the&s;e tenets as the con&s;tant opinion of all your Churches; having no gene|rall confe&s;&s;ion of their faith thereabouts. If in the name of all the re&s;t, we de|&s;ire you would &s;hew your Commi&s;&s;ion from all your Churches, &amp;c.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Good Reader, do but turn about the&s;e intergotories, and put them to <HI>A. S.</HI> and put <HI>A. S.</HI> in &s;tead of the five Mini&s;ters, and you may kill <HI>Goliah</HI> with his own &s;word; If five Mini&s;ters have arrogated in the Apol. one <HI>A. S.</HI> much more in his Reply. If <HI>A. S.</HI> doth not like the conver&s;ion; we an&s;wer po&s;itively.</P>
<P N="1">1 Its no arrogating for any Chri&s;tian upon ju&s;t occa&s;ion to make his confe&s;&s;ion of faith.</P>
<P N="2">2 The confe&s;&s;ion of faith in doctrine that is in all the be&s;t refor|med Churches is theirs; For one touching pure Di&s;cipline, it was not found in Scotland whiles the tyrannie of the Bi&s;hops prevailed. Whiles things are in <HI>fieri,</HI> a wi&s;e man will not expect them <HI>in facto e&s;&s;e.</HI> Faith may be when confe&s;&s;ion dares not appear. <HI>A. S.</HI> is angrie with that confe&s;&s;ion of faith in the Apologie; and hath opened the mouthes of many others (as we hear) ready to bark too at it, they
<PB N="28" REF="15"> do but &s;tay their turnes, why then doth he call for more confe&s;&s;ion?</P>
<P N="3">3. The godly learned Fathers, <HI>Tertullian, Ju&s;tin Martyr, &amp;c.</HI> pro|duced no authoritie from men to Apologize for the truth; the Scrip|ture they Apologized for bore them out.</P>
<P N="4">4. The Parliament allow the five Mini&s;ters more, <HI>viz.</HI> to &s;hew their rea&s;ons, therefore the le&s;&s;e, to &s;hew their opinion.</P>
<P N="5">5. A thou&s;and and a thou&s;and good Chri&s;tians were glad to heare how the five Mini&s;ters di&s;&s;ented from the riged Separation, and clo&s;ed with the be&s;t reformed Churches (the &s;ole bu&s;ine&s;&s;e of the Apologie in effect) and thought that no good Prote&s;tants would have been &s;orry for them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>His eight Con&s;id. interrogates the five Mini&s;ters thus; Whether yee de&s;ire a toleration for you</HI> 5 <HI>alone in</HI> your <HI>(mark)</HI> your <HI>Religion, for all the re&s;t? Item, if a toleration in publicke, in erecting of Churches apart? or to live quiet|ly without troubling of the State? As for the la&s;t, appearingly yee may have it un&s;ought. But for the re&s;t, the Parliament is wi&s;e enough, and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Friend <HI>A. S.</HI> Toleration (&s;ayth learned <HI>Capel)</HI> is of things unlawfull. We are not friend <HI>A. S.</HI> come to that yet. To yeeld the one, or beg the other. You tell the five Mini&s;ters that to live quietly with|out troubling the State, they may have it appear in ly un&s;ought. Let the world judge, whether here be not a &s;aucie jeere, both in mat|ter and forme of &s;peech. I would <HI>A. S.</HI> had made u&s;e of that tolera|tion, and then he had not &s;o intolerably troubled a Kingdome. Or el&s;e if he had no &s;tomack at fir&s;t to be quiet, if for &s;ome dayes he had but had &s;omewhat <HI>appearingly</HI> allowed him to bite upon, &s;ome|what <HI>appearingly</HI> to quench his thir&s;t, he would have had a &s;tomacke rather to eat and drinke, then bite and jeere. He is &s;o pa&s;&s;ionate, that he doth not remember what he &s;ayes in one page, &s;o as it may be re|conciled to another. Here he &s;ayth, <HI>the Parliament is wi&s;e enough, and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God</HI> (you may perceive his meaning by reading his Interrogatorie) yet in his Annotation upon the in&s;cript of the Apologie, <HI>pag.</HI> 5. <HI>He &s;uppo&s;eth that the Parliament &s;hould arrogate if it &s;hould take upon it any directive power in matters of Reli|gion.</HI> If he hath any Schola&s;tick quillet to reconcile this within him|&s;elf, it is more then the common people and <HI>weak brethren</HI> he writes to know of.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Hath one Con&s;ideration more; were it not that it did an&s;wer it &s;elfe,</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>M. S.</HI> Note.</NOTE> <HI>I &s;hould have been too weary of his former incon&s;iderate con&s;iderations to have &s;tayd here, being eager to come to his booke.</HI></P>
<PB N="29" REF="15">
<P N="1">1. He &s;ayth, that they that ayme at <HI>&s;eparation</HI> (he means the five Mini&s;ters, though they di&s;claime it in their Apologie, unle&s;&s;e to &s;e|parate as our brethren the <HI>Scots</HI> did from Prelaticall co-action) &s;hould <HI>tolerate &s;ome &s;mall pretended defects</HI> (they are but <HI>pretended)</HI> yet he &s;ayth not <HI>approved</HI> by tho&s;e from whom they de&s;ire to &s;eparate.</P>
<P N="2">2. He &s;ayth, the Church, (from which the five Mini&s;ters would &s;eparate) te&s;tifies a great de&s;ire to reforme <HI>defects,</HI> yet tho&s;e defects, &s;ayth he, are but <HI>pretended</HI> to be in it.</P>
<P N="3">3. He thinks that the five Mini&s;ters &s;hould do better to &s;tay in the Church, to reforme abu&s;es, then by &s;eparation to let the Church pe|ri&s;h in abu&s;es. Now he &s;uppo&s;eth, <HI>de&s;troying abu&s;es;</HI> and would have the five Mini&s;ters &s;tay to help reforme; yet he is angry with their A|pologie, that doth but &s;igh forth an intimation of need of reforma|tion. And &s;o angry that he would (as yee heard in his &s;econd con|&s;ideration, its &s;o long &s;ince that he hath forgotten it) have the five Mini&s;ters quit the A&s;&s;embly.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>His Annotations upon the in&s;cription of the Apologi&s;ts Narration.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>If I thought <HI>A. S.</HI> had any skill in Phy&s;ick, I would ask him whether by <HI>Annotations,</HI> he means, as the Phy&s;itions &s;peak, <HI>Annota|tiones incompre&s;&s;as, hecticarum febrium indicia,</HI> Violent annotations are &s;ignes of an hectick feaver in his vitall parts.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>All Apologies &s;uppo&s;e &s;ome accu&s;ation, which here appeares none.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Not to meddle with your Engli&s;h, which is &s;carce gramma|ticall, you are intreated to &s;peak true. Doth not the Apologie begin and end with &s;ad complaints? Remember our an&s;wer to your fourth Con&s;ideration.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>If intended for an an&s;wer to that which hath been written again&s;t your opinions, it comes very &s;hort, weake, and &s;lender.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Why then would you fight with a fly. The Mou&s;e told the Elephant, that he would never get honour in killing a &s;illy Mou&s;e. Why did you be&s;tow &s;o much Oratorie and Logicke, to clap it and fi&s;ticuffe it?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Neither is it a meer Apologeticall Narration, but al&s;o a grievous accu|&s;ation again&s;t all our Churches, as de&s;titute of the power of godline&s;&s;e.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>This indeed is a fal&s;e accu&s;ation, as wee have cleered it in our An&s;wer to your fift Con&s;ideration.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>The Apologie &s;ayth, humbly &s;ubmitted, &amp;c. So humbly &s;ubmitted to the honourable Hou&s;es of Parliament, as if they &s;ubmit not them&s;elves to your de|&s;ires, &amp;c. For any thing I can &s;ee, yee &s;eem no wayes minded to &s;ubmit your &s;elves to theirs.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="30" REF="16">
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>I am &s;orry your eyes &s;hould be &s;o dim, or your &s;elfe &s;o to doat. All indifferent men can &s;ee in the Apologie abundance of pro|pen&s;itie to &s;ubmit to them according to truth; farre more then there is in one <HI>A. S.</HI> to &s;ubmit to five Mini&s;ters, who&s;e holine&s;&s;e you admire, and who&s;e learning you extoll.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>A. S.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You being Divines, ye &s;hould rather fir&s;t have con&s;ulted with the A&s;&s;embly of Divines, your brethren, then &s;o</HI> ex abrupto <HI>gone to the Civill Magi&s;trate, that arrogates not to him&s;elf any directive power in matters of Religion, this is more convenient to the &s;pirit and power of godline&s;&s;e, that the &s;pirit of the Prophets in &s;uch matters &s;hould be &s;ubject to the Prophets, then un|to the &s;pirit of the Civill Magi&s;trate.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>M. S.</SPEAKER>
<P>Mark how this fellow <HI>A.</HI> S. 1 &s;uppo&s;eth it arrogancie in the Parliament to have any directive power in matters of Religion, in ca&s;e the A&s;&s;embly (which God forbid) &s;hould mi&s;take. Surely by this bold expre&s;&s;ion he would not have the Parliament judge of the rea&s;ons of the A&s;&s;embly in ca&s;e of di&s;&s;ent. Lea&s;t of all doth <HI>A. S.</HI> con&s;ider that the Parliament are Members of many excellent Chur|ches; That they laid down the Common Prayer book in their hou|&s;es before &s;ome Presbyterians could &s;ee rea&s;on, to do &s;o. That the Parliament &s;o looked on the A&s;&s;embly cho&s;en by them, as not to take things meerly upon tru&s;t, but &s;ee with their own eyes.</P>
</SP>
<P N="2">2 He dreamingly &s;uppo&s;eth that either our A&s;&s;embly is like the A&s;&s;embly of Scotland for breadth and &s;trength; or el&s;e he takes them for <HI>a Church,</HI> and in the act of prophe&s;ying; which la&s;t I won|der <HI>A. S.</HI> being a rank Presbyterian &s;hould in the lea&s;t allow of, and call the five Mini&s;ters to the rule thereof.</P>
<P N="3">3 <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;uppo&s;eth that it is le&s;&s;e convenient to the power of god|line&s;&s;e for the wronged five Mini&s;ters to appeal to the Civill Magi|&s;trate in Parliament.</P>
<P N="4">4 <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;uppo&s;eth, that becau&s;e the Parliament have cho&s;en the A&s;&s;embly, that therefore &s;ome men, in &s;ome ca&s;es at lea&s;t &s;hould wave the Parliament, and go to the A&s;&s;embly. This is <HI>A. S.</HI> his fine intimation prompted to all &s;candalous and fal&s;e teaching erronious Mini&s;ters, to take up and learn, in their ca&s;es relating to Religion, to wave the Parliament, and to go to the A&s;&s;embly.</P>
<P N="5">5 <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;uppo&s;eth that the A&s;&s;embly would be &s;o unwi&s;e (&s;ee what a &s;illy fellow <HI>A. S.</HI> is) as to go beyond their Ordinance, to judge one another. When as they will take upon them no &s;uch thing, not &s;o much as to ca&s;t out, or take in one member, without the Parliament: much le&s;&s;e will they judge per&s;ons that &s;hall wrong the five Mini|&s;ters that are not of the A&s;&s;embly.</P>
<PB N="31" REF="16">
<P>The re&s;t of his Annotations on the in&s;cription are but meer paper blots, and therefore I omit them.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="introduction">
<HEAD>Now to the Book. <HI>The Introduction.</HI></HEAD>
<P>HAving diligently peru&s;ed the <HI>cacologeticall</HI> or rough commen|taries of <HI>A. S.</HI> upon the &s;mooth <HI>Apologeticall</HI> Narration of the five Mini&s;ters, I find the greate&s;t difficultie, that he is like to encounter, who by a &s;ober An&s;wer &s;hall de&s;ire to make the world amends for that injurie, which that writing hath done it, is this, how to make his An&s;wer &s;oft enough. For the truth is, that here is much more Anger or pa&s;&s;ion, then rea&s;on, to turn away, and the wi&s;e man informs us, that it is <HI>A &s;oft An&s;wer, that turneth away wrath.</HI> Prov. 15. 1. If <HI>A. S.</HI> could be but redeemed out of the hand of that great jealou&s;ie, wherewith he burns over his pre&s;ent apprehen&s;ions <HI>in re presbyterali,</HI> though all the arguments, and &s;trength of di&s;cour&s;e, wherewith his judgement is &s;upported therein, were left entire to him, he would be found in a &s;ufficient po&s;ture him&s;elf, to do him&s;elf the right of giving &s;atisfaction unto the world, for the wrong he hath done it, in that di&s;cour&s;e, and to make his attonement with his own pen. Though in many ca&s;es Anger is able to do more, then rea&s;on can undo; yet in matter of argument or writing, the little finger of a mans rea&s;on, is commonly able to pull down what the loins of his pa&s;&s;ion, hath in a tumultuarie way and method built up. Any man that &s;hall but diligently ob&s;erve the endle&s;&s;e varietie and multitude of keene expo&s;tulations, imperious interrogations, the importune, peremptory, and in&s;ulting charges, criminations, and a&s;per&s;ions, the wrigglings, wringings, wre&s;tings, wranglings, the &s;treinings, &s;tretchings, &s;tingings, &s;truglings, the captious, crooked, and cro&s;&s;e-grain'd Interpretations of things, wherewith that peice is farced in an unrea&s;onable proportion to the bulk of it, cannot lightly but conclude, that Indignation was the chief Oracle con|&s;ulted with, about the framing of it.</P>
<P>But becau&s;e I would willingly decline all occa&s;ions of heat and recrimination, as far as a &s;ober and ju&s;t vindication, not &s;o much of the per&s;ons, as of the cau&s;e &s;o evill-intreated therein, will bear, I
<PB N="32" REF="17"> &s;hall chiefly confer with <HI>A. S.</HI> about his Reals, and leave men of common civilitie to determine and judge of his per&s;onals; unle&s;&s;e (po&s;&s;ibly) &s;omewhat in this kind &s;hall now and then, occa&s;ionally fall in. I make no que&s;tion but that the Apologi&s;ts, will be well able to bear it, that the cau&s;e which they maintain, &s;hould have the pre|heminence of their per&s;ons, in point of defence; nor are they &s;o &s;can|ted in the con&s;ciou&s;ne&s;&s;e of their own worth and innocence, but that they are very well able to be out, and bear the want of &s;o much of their reputations for a time, as the Ob&s;ervations and Annota|tions of I know not who have unju&s;tly taken from them; e&s;pecially in ca&s;e they &s;hall &s;ee it be&s;towed by their Friends upon the accom|modation of that honorable cau&s;e wherein they are engaged and declared.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="1" TYPE="chapter">
<HEAD>Cap. 1. Concerning the Directive power in matters Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall, and which concern Religion; whither, how, or in what &s;ence, it may be concei|ved to re&s;ide, in the civill Magi&s;trate, Synods, or other men.</HEAD>
<P><MILESTONE N="1" UNIT="Sect."> A. <HI>S.</HI> pag. 5. hath this left-handed expre&s;&s;ion concerning the Civill Magi&s;trate, <HI>that he arrogates not to him&s;elf any Directive power in matters of Religion.</HI> The Reader mu&s;t do him a courte&s;ie in finding out a very &s;oft &s;ence for the word <HI>arrogate;</HI> otherwi&s;e, he will be found in a mi&s;pri&s;ion of a foule in&s;inuation again&s;t the Civill Magi&s;trate, as <HI>viz.</HI> that he arrogates, 1. (in the ordinary con&s;tru|ction of the word) proudly a&s;&s;umes to him&s;elf, when he claims or exerci&s;eth <HI>that executive, coercitive, and externall power, in and about mat|ters of Religion,</HI> which yet <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf in the very next page, know|ing on which fide to butter his own bread, a&s;cribes unto him. But I marvell that the man &s;hould here &s;o cleanly wipe the civill Magi|&s;trate of <HI>a directive power in matters of Religion,</HI> when as but a few pages before, in his eighth Ob&s;ervation, he had pleaded <HI>wi&s;edome enough in the Parliament to know what is convenient for the Church of God.</HI> If the Parliament be wi&s;e enough to know what is convenient for the Church, I know no rea&s;on why that Directive power here &s;poken of, &s;hould be derogated, or taken from them, e&s;pecially by tho&s;e, who (it is much to be feared) are much &s;treightned in re&s;pect of a &s;pirit of that wi&s;dom them&s;elves. Surely <HI>A. S.</HI> in &s;aying <HI>that the Par|liament is wi&s;e enough to know what is convenient for the Church,</HI> hath fieft|ed the Synod or A&s;&s;embly with a &s;ieve of vanity, and broke the head
<PB N="33" REF="17"> of the nece&s;&s;itie thereof; and &s;o is guiltie of a farre higher mi&s;de|meanour again&s;t it, then the Apologi&s;ts are in any thing that they have done, or &s;aid, yea or then him&s;elf layeth to their charge; which yet is his rod of &s;corpions to &s;courge them with from place to place.</P>
<Q>Turpe e&s;t Doctori, cum culpa redarguit ip&s;um.</Q>
<P><MILESTONE N="2" UNIT="Sect."> But let us con&s;ider a little more narrowly, whether <HI>A. S.</HI> hath quitted him&s;elf like a Doctor of the Chair, in &s;tripping the Civill Magi&s;trate of <HI>a Directive power</HI> in matters of Religion, and putting on him in &s;tead thereof, the purple robe of <HI>an executive, coercitive and externall power onely.</HI> pag. 6.</P>
<P N="1">1. By &s;uch an umpierage and deci&s;ion as this, between the Civill Magi&s;trate, and him&s;elf with his fellow-Presbyters, hath he not made the one <HI>Judex,</HI> and the other <HI>Carnifex:</HI> the one mu&s;t give the &s;entence, the other mu&s;t do the execution? The Civill Magi&s;trate is much beholding to the Presbyter, for giving of him a con&s;ecrated &s;word to fight the Presbyterian battels; and for per&s;wading him to pull out his own eyes, upon this pre&s;umption, that he &s;hall &s;ee better with his. I perceive Presbyterie is policie in the highe&s;t; and &s;eeks to put the Magi&s;trate between it &s;elf, and the envie and di&s;content of the people; and yet neverthele&s;&s;e hopes to gain from the hand of the Magi&s;trate &s;uch an interpretation of this practi&s;e, as thereby to be e&s;teemed the be&s;t and faithfulle&s;t friend it hath, in all the world. This cunning of the &s;pirit we now &s;peak of, puts me in mind of the Ape, that took the &s;paniels foot to pull the che&s;t-nut out of the fire. Surely the frame and con&s;titution of Presbyterie, is exactly calculated for the meridian of this pre&s;ent world; but whither it will indifferently &s;erve for that which is to come, <HI>totus dubito,</HI> I am in doubt all over. And indeed <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf is &s;omewhat ingenuous in acknowledging, that this Government hath little or no relation un|to, or compliance with, the world which is to come, profe&s;&s;ing p. 13. <HI>the externall peace of the Church, to be the adequate end thereof.</HI></P>
<P N="2"><MILESTONE N="3" UNIT="Sect."> 2. I would gladly be informed, whether <HI>A. S.</HI> thinks it rea&s;ona|ble, meet, or Chri&s;tian, that the civill Magi&s;trate, &s;hould immedi|ately, hand over head, without di&s;tinction, without &s;earching (for his own &s;atisfaction) into the equitablene&s;&s;e, and lawfulne&s;&s;e of what a Presbytery or Synod &s;hall commend unto him for execution, intere&s;&s;e him&s;elf in the execution of what&s;oever &s;hall be &s;o recom|mended and pre&s;ented unto him? I pre&s;ume <HI>A. S.</HI> will not arrogate unto him&s;elf, nor to his A&s;&s;embly, an infallibilitie, though (in &s;ome places) I find him very loath to abate this in the reckoning (if it would be allowed;) and the truth is, that the whole fabrique
<PB N="34" REF="18"> (well-nigh) of his di&s;cour&s;e, to make it rationall, and any thing to purpo&s;e, requires &s;uch a &s;uppo&s;ition for the bottome and foundati|on of it, as this. Yet <HI>pag.</HI> 8. he conde&s;cendeth &s;o low, as to number him&s;elfe among&s;t tho&s;e, who <HI>know that they know but in part:</HI> and <HI>pag.</HI> 9. among&s;t tho&s;e that are <HI>con&s;cious of their owne infirmitie:</HI> which prin|ciple if he would plea&s;e to follow home, it would teach him to ca&s;t away the greate&s;t part of his di&s;cour&s;e with indignation, and to &s;ay unto it, <HI>get thee hence.</HI> If he grants a po&s;&s;ibilitie of errour or unrighte|ou&s;ne&s;&s;e in the re&s;ults and awards, whether of his Presbytery or A&s;|&s;embly, which are &s;uppo&s;ed to be tran&s;mitted to the Magi&s;trate for execution; he cannot, &s;peaking like a man, deny him a lawfulne&s;&s;e of power, no nor yet a nece&s;&s;itie by way of dutie, to examine and judge them, whether they be lawfull or meet to be put in execution, or no. And he that hath a power to judge and to determine, what is meet to be done, or not done, executed, or not executed, in mat|ters of Religion, may be &s;aid to have a <HI>Directive power</HI> in &s;uch things (at lea&s;t in the common &s;ence and notion of a <HI>Directive power)</HI> as well as an Executive. But</P>
<P N="3"><MILESTONE N="4" UNIT="Sect."> 3. <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;hould befriend my intellect very much, to tell me plain|ly and di&s;tinctly, what he means by a <HI>Directive power in matters of Re|ligion;</HI> being (as it &s;hould &s;eeme) a daintie mor&s;ell, which he would faine complement away from the Parliament and civill Magi&s;trate, and &s;natch away from all others, for him&s;elfe and his friends (Pre&s;|byteriall Eccle&s;ia&s;tiques) to make merry with. 1. If by a <HI>Directive power,</HI> he means a libertie or power of con&s;idering, advi&s;ing, and propo&s;ing of what may be expedient to be done in matters of Reli|gion, and for the good of the Church; I know no man but is inte|re&s;&s;ed in &s;uch a power: As when the Tabernacle was to be built, every man had power to bring and offer what he had, and what his heart &s;erved him to part with for &s;uch a purpo&s;e, towards the edifi|cation and furni&s;hing of it. But why this libertie or power &s;hould be denied unto the Parliament or Civill Magi&s;trate, upon whom prin|cipally the charge lyeth to provide quietne&s;&s;e and peace for the Churches within the verge of their temporall juri&s;diction; rea&s;on (doubtle&s;&s;e) on this &s;ide the Moone there lyeth none; and <HI>A. S.</HI> mu&s;t be very Seraphicall to find any.</P>
<P N="2"><MILESTONE N="5" UNIT="Sect."> 2. If by <HI>a Directive power,</HI> he means an authoritative power, to con|clude, &s;ay, and &s;et downe, what &s;hall, mu&s;t, or ought to be done, a|gain&s;t all contradiction, <HI>in matters of Religion,</HI> I know no &s;ubject capa|ble of &s;uch a power, but onely he that is above all the Predicaments in Logique, or he <HI>to whom all power is given, both in Heaven and on Earth.</HI>
<PB N="35" REF="18"> Certaine I am, that neither the one nor the other, can be inve&s;ted with any greater power, then this. If the Presbyterians demand &s;uch a <HI>Directive power</HI> as this, let them aske the crowne, throne, and Kingdome of Chri&s;t al&s;o.</P>
<P N="3"><MILESTONE N="6" UNIT="Sect."> 3. If by a <HI>Directive power</HI> he means, a prudentiall facultie or abili|tie, to direct, order, or pre&s;cribe, whether unto a mans &s;elf or others, what in a way of rea&s;on, humane conjecture, or probabilitie, is be&s;t and fitte&s;t to be done, followed, or imbraced in matters of Religion, as I would not deny this power (and that in &s;omewhat a more ex|cellent degree) to <HI>A. S.</HI> his Presbyterie or Synod, (alwayes provided that the con&s;tituting members of either, be of a &s;ound con&s;titution, as well for &s;pirituall wi&s;dome, as for meekne&s;&s;e and humilitie) &s;o is it not by <HI>A. S.</HI> to be denied to many private members of particular Churches; daily experience teaching us, that God gives of this pru|dentiall facultie unto many of the&s;e, by the Ephah, whereas to many Pa&s;tors it is given but by the Omer. And if this be the Directive power which he meaneth, though he &s;eeks to allure the Parliament from the claime of it, by fa&s;tening a complementall commendation of mode&s;ty upon them, by way of exchange for it, proclaiming it unto the world, that they <HI>doe not arrogate it to them&s;elves;</HI> yet they doe claime it, yea, and exerci&s;e, act, and make u&s;e of it, from day to day, as occa&s;ion requireth. 1. In contriving and publi&s;hing their Ordi|nance for calling the A&s;&s;embly (formerly mentioned) they exerci|&s;ed &s;uch a power, as wee now &s;peake of. 2. In limiting tho&s;e that were to be of the A&s;&s;embly, to the &s;ubject or argument, on which it was permitted unto them to debate and treate (as appears by the Ordinance they did) they did no le&s;&s;e. 3. In appointing and order|ing them not to determine or conclude of things as they plea&s;ed by pluralitie of Votes, but <HI>to deliver their opinions and advices, as &s;hould be mo&s;t agreeable to the word of God</HI> (another provi&s;o in the Ordinance) they did the &s;ame. 4. In injoyning them, <HI>in ca&s;e of difference of opinions between them, to pre&s;ent the &s;ame, together with the rea&s;ons thereof, unto both Hou&s;es</HI> (another member of that Ordinance) they did every whit as much. 5. In their nomination and calling &s;uch and &s;uch Mini|&s;ters or Divines by name, and not others, to be of the A&s;&s;embly, they acted the &s;ame power. 6. In framing the temper and con&s;titution of the A&s;&s;embly, allaying it with &s;uch and &s;uch members of their own, they &s;teer'd the &s;ame cour&s;e. 7. And la&s;tly (to omit many other par|ticulars of like con&s;ideration) in their me&s;&s;ages or directions &s;ent un|to them from time to time, how to proceed, what particulars to
<PB N="36" REF="19"> wave for the pre&s;ent, what to fall upon, and to debate, to ha&s;ten the i&s;&s;ue of their con&s;ultations, with the like, what doe they el&s;e but claime and exerci&s;e &s;uch a <HI>Directive power in matters of Religion,</HI> as we la&s;t di&s;tingui&s;hed?</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="7" UNIT="Sect."> If <HI>A. S.</HI> hath any other notion of his <HI>Directive power in matters of Re|ligion,</HI> be&s;ides the&s;e three, my &s;oule hath not yet entred into that his &s;ecret; but waits for his opening a doore unto me by which it may. He taxeth the Apologi&s;ts once and againe for generalities, and ob|&s;eurities in their expre&s;&s;ions: But he that &s;aith, <HI>a man &s;hould not &s;teale, commits &s;acriledge</HI> him&s;elf.</P>
<P N="4"><MILESTONE N="8" UNIT="Sect."> 4. Whereas harping &s;till upon the &s;ame &s;tring, (the &s;ound where|of is &s;o melodious in his own eares, how harm &s;o ever in other mens) he chargeth the Apologi&s;ts, for <HI>going again&s;t the Parliaments intention,</HI> in ca&s;e they think, <HI>that they &s;hould judge of que&s;tions in debate between them and their Brethren;</HI> Surely he &s;peaks rather as he would have it, then as he hath any ground to &s;peake. If he had ploughed with their hey|fer, con&s;ulted with their expre&s;&s;ions of them&s;elves in reference to their intentions in this kinde, he would have a&s;&s;oyled their riddle far otherwi&s;e. For to what purpo&s;e &s;hould they injoyne the A&s;&s;em|bly, (as we lately heard they doe in the Ordinance mentioned) <HI>in ca&s;e of difference of opinions between them, to pre&s;ent the &s;ame, together with the rea&s;ons thereof, unto both Hou&s;es of Parliament,</HI> if they had no inten|tion to umpire or judge between them? Have they a de&s;ire to looke upon &s;uch differences as &s;ome rare &s;ight, or plea&s;ant &s;pectacle, onely to &s;olace and delight them&s;elves with them? And why doth the te|nour of their delegation of power to the A&s;&s;embly, run in this &s;train, <HI>To deliver their opinions and advices, as &s;hould be mo&s;t agreeable to the word of God?</HI> Do's any man de&s;ire the opinion and advice of another in any matter that concerns him, without any intention of con&s;idering or judging of them?</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="9" UNIT="Sect."> But <HI>A. S.</HI> is as cunning as <HI>A. C.</HI> and would faine commend his care and tenderne&s;&s;e over the Parliament, in the things of their ho|nour and peace, by in&s;inuating unto them a non-vocation from God, to doe any thing with their judgements and under&s;tandings <HI>in matters of Religion,</HI> but all things (without exception) with their hand and power, that the A&s;&s;embly, whether out of their judge|ments or affections, &s;hall propo&s;e <HI>or dictate</HI> unto them. <HI>A. S.</HI> (I be|leeve) is a Brother of the &s;tronger &s;ide of the A&s;&s;embly; otherwi&s;e it is every whit as much as to be feared, that he would have Arminia|niz'd as much, if not far more then the Apologi&s;ts have done. But
<PB N="37" REF="19"> if the Parliament hath no calling from God, to judge of matters be|tween the Apologi&s;ts and their Brethren (the A&s;&s;emblers) I would willingly know who hath? or whether it be rea&s;onable, that the A|pologi&s;ts, matters yet remaining undecided, and unjudged between them and their Brethren, &s;hould &s;uffer as men convicted, onely be|cau&s;e their adver&s;aries and accu&s;ers (the Brethren yee wot of) are more in number then they, and will needs continue adver&s;aries to them? Our Saviours te&s;timony concerning him&s;elfe and in his own cau&s;e, was a thou&s;and times more authentique and valid, then the te&s;timony of never &s;o many men, take the be&s;t of the who&s;e generati|on, is in theirs; and yet he &s;aid, <HI>If I beare witne&s;&s;e of my &s;elfe, my wit|ne&s;&s;e is not true;</HI> (Joh: 5. 31.) That is, it is not formally, or in a legall interpretation, true; it is not true upon any &s;uch termes, but that you may rea&s;onably wave it, if you apprehend that you have grounds to doe it. <HI>But</HI> (&s;ayth he) <HI>there is another that beareth witne&s;&s;e of me, &amp;c.</HI> The te&s;timony of a thou&s;and men in a ca&s;e which equal|ly (or though it be with &s;ome inequalitie) concerns them&s;elves, is of no more validitie or authoritie, then of a particular man, in a ca&s;e relating onely to him&s;elfe. Yea, a good mans con&s;cience, in matters relating unto him&s;elfe, is never in more danger of &s;uffering, then in a crowd, concern'd in the &s;ame manner with him. It is the &s;aying of one, that <HI>etiam ex timidi&s;&s;imis animalibus acris multitudo cogi pote&s;t;</HI> that is, you may make a feirce company of the fearfulle&s;t creatures that are, if you put enough of them together; &s;o frequent experience &s;heweth, that <HI>etiam ex aequi&s;&s;imis hominibus iniqua multitudo cogi pote&s;t;</HI> you may make a bad a&s;&s;embly even of the be&s;t men.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="10" UNIT="Sect."> Be&s;ides <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elfe affirms <HI>pag.</HI> 38. <HI>That to be both judge and partie in one cau&s;e, cannot be granted to tho&s;e that have no authoritative power one over another:</HI> and that <HI>Par in Paremnon habet imperium.</HI> Therefore why &s;hould the Apologi&s;ts fall in judgement by the hand of tho&s;e that are parties, and but equall to them? Againe, It is his owne rea&s;on|ing, <HI>pag.</HI> 45. <HI>If all Churches were equall</HI> (as for ought I know, or that <HI>A. S.</HI> alledgeth to the contrary, they are) <HI>there can neither be &s;uperiours nor inferiours, and con&s;equently no obedience or di&s;obedience.</HI> And if <HI>ju&s;tice con&s;i&s;teth not in an Arithmeticall but Geometricall proportion</HI> (which is his own &s;aying <HI>pag.</HI> 70. and &s;omewhat more rationall and le&s;&s;e Presby|teriall, then mo&s;t of it's fellows are) then is there no rea&s;on, that peremptorine&s;&s;e of Vote, how Arithmetically &s;o ever priviledged, but weight and worth of argument, &s;hould carry it again&s;t them. Which how it may fall, when God &s;hall cancell or rever&s;e the Scrip|tures
<PB N="38" REF="20"> that now are, and make a new revelation of him&s;elfe unto the world, I know not; but whil&s;t the&s;e &s;tand, confident I am, that they will never &s;o fall.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="11" UNIT="Sect."> But why the man &s;hould deny the Parliament a calling to judge of matters between the Apologi&s;ts and their Brethren, when as every other man in the Kingdome hath a calling, yea, and &s;omewhat more then a calling, a &s;peciall and weightie nece&s;&s;itie to doe it, (though not after the &s;ame manner in re&s;pect of the con&s;equence of their judgement) I &s;ee as little rea&s;on, as I doe for twentie and ten things more a&s;&s;erted by him. Would <HI>A. S.</HI> have even the meane&s;t of men to &s;ing obedience and &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion to the A&s;&s;embly without their under|&s;tandings? Alas, they could make no melodie in their hearts unto God with &s;uch a &s;inging. Nor would the &s;ong be either honourable or comfortable to the A&s;&s;embly it &s;elfe, if them&s;elves and others would but plea&s;e to be&s;tow a few &s;erious thoughts upon it. The glo|ry of a Synod lyes not &s;o much in the &s;trength of their conclu&s;ions, as of their premi&s;&s;es: nor is it any thing worthy to be pre&s;umed, in compari&s;on of what it is to be knowne, to be wi&s;e and upright men. Me thinks an A&s;&s;embly of con&s;cientious and learned men, &s;hould ra|ther count it a prophanation of their conclu&s;ions and re&s;olv's, then otherwi&s;e, to have them &s;wallowed without chewing; to have them &s;ub&s;cribed and con&s;ented unto onely in &s;uch a way and upon &s;uch termes, as fooles are wont to beleeve, &s;ub&s;cribe, and con&s;ent unto all things. But</P>
<P N="5"><MILESTONE N="12" UNIT="Sect."> 5. To make the Apologi&s;ts out of love with &s;o much as looking towards the Parliament for any reliefe from them again&s;t the &s;e|vere devotion of their Brethren, in ca&s;e they vote contrary to them (under which hope <HI>A. S.</HI> injoyes him&s;elfe with much contentment) he tells them, that by &s;uch a cour&s;e or expectation, they will joyne them&s;elves with the Arminians, of whom he is plea&s;ed to tell this Storie, <HI>That hoping the Civill Magi&s;trate would have been for them, they gave this Directive or Deci&s;ive power unto him; and afterwards repented them&s;elves when they found him again&s;t them.</HI> Leaving the truth of the Storie upon the credit of the Relator; I an&s;wer.</P>
<P N="1">1. That Je&s;us Chri&s;t was never the more a &s;inner, for being <HI>num|bred</HI> by the Jews <HI>amongst tran&s;gre&s;&s;ors,</HI> or for being crucified between two theeves. Nor are the Apologi&s;ts, or men of their judgement ever the more culpable or blame-worthy for being bound up in the &s;ame bundle of condemnation with Delinquents, by their adver&s;a|ries. <HI>Quis enim laud<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">verit ho&s;tem?</HI></P>
<PB N="39" REF="20">
<P N="2"><MILESTONE N="13" UNIT="Sect."> 2. Neither did <HI>Paul</HI> count it any di&s;paragement to him, to preach that Je&s;us Chri&s;t was the Son of God, becau&s;e the Devill had preach|ed the &s;ame Doctrine before him. Nor doth <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elfe thinke him&s;elfe ever the more a Papi&s;t, becau&s;e <HI>the Papi&s;ts</HI> (as him&s;elfe con|fe&s;&s;eth afterwards <HI>pag.</HI> 18.) <HI>beleeve all that he beleeveth</HI> (though for my part I thinke any man as good a Prote&s;tant as him&s;elfe, that belee|veth as much as he) And <HI>pag.</HI> 64. in his eighteenth rea&s;onle&s;&s;e rea|&s;on again&s;t a toleration of men better then him&s;elfe, he in&s;inuates this as a choice commendation of his Presbyteriall Government, that <HI>in it their Churches are not expo&s;ed unto the calumnies of the Papi&s;ts, who pretend to be nothing but one Church;</HI> meaning that a compliance with them in unitie and uniformitie, will be an exemption to them from their calumnies.</P>
<P N="3"><MILESTONE N="14" UNIT="Sect."> 3. It is an old piece of &s;ubtiltie of the old Serpent, to oppo&s;e God in his Saints, and in his wayes, by teaching his Prophets and Agents to make paralells between, to &s;ort and to &s;uit Gods &s;ervants with his, and Gods wayes or workes with his, that &s;o the fooli&s;h and in|con&s;iderate world might be brought to thinke, that God and he are but one, and that there is little or no difference between them. How did <HI>Jannes and Jambres with&s;tand Mo&s;es,</HI> but by doing the &s;ame things in appearance by the helpe of the Devill, which <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> did by the finger of God? By this they hardened <HI>Pharaoh</HI> and the Aegyptians with this confidence and conceit, that God was no more with <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> then with them. <HI>A. S.</HI> paralells the Apologi&s;ts with the Arminians, hoping to catch the foote of the &s;imple in this &s;nare, to make them thinke that they are both baptized into one and the &s;ame Spirit: you &s;hall finde a further &s;treine of this malignitie in him, <HI>pag.</HI> 22.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="15" UNIT="Sect."> Fourthly (and la&s;tly) If the Arminians gave that <HI>power to the Ci|vill Magi&s;trate</HI> which they are here charged to have done, <HI>upon hope they would have been for them,</HI> they were no Antipodes to <HI>A. S.</HI> and his fraternitie, who deny this power to the Civill Magi&s;trate, for fear they &s;hould not be <HI>for them,</HI> if they were left free to judge of their own actions. All the lineaments in the face of Presbyterie demon|&s;trate this to be in the heart of it; a willingne&s;&s;e to conferre all, and all manner of power what&s;oever upon the Civill Magi&s;trate in mat|ters of Religion, which they may be &s;ecured will be u&s;ed to &s;erve their turns, and not to the prejudice or di&s;turbance of them in their way. And &s;o <HI>A. S.</HI> after he had laboured in the very fire, and had ingag'd him&s;elf to the uttermo&s;t to prove the negative, he fals off with this glozing clo&s;e at the la&s;t, (pag. 51.) <HI>that if the King and</HI>
<PB N="40" REF="21"> <HI>Parliament &s;hould find</HI> [any thing contrary to what he had delivered] <HI>expedient, he had nothing to &s;ay again&s;t it.</HI> Therefore of the two, Armi|nians are more charitably affected towards the Civill Magi&s;trate, in ca&s;ting a power upon them, out of an hope they would u&s;e it for their good, then the Presbyterians are in denying this power unto them, out of fear they will u&s;e it to their damage.</P>
<P N="6"><MILESTONE N="16" UNIT="Sect."> 6. (and la&s;tly, for conclu&s;ion of this fir&s;t Chapter) concerning &s;uch a Directive power in matters of Religion, as <HI>A. S.</HI> (it &s;eems) would here &s;eque&s;ter for the honour and &s;ervice of his Presbyterie, when Je&s;us Chri&s;t hath declared him&s;elf willing to deve&s;t him&s;elf, and make a delegation of it unto them, I &s;hall as willingly acknow|ledge and adore their patent, as any other. In the mean time, (God &s;upporting me) I &s;hall with the utmo&s;t of my power, and in the pre|&s;ence of all di&s;couragements, dangers, deaths, vindicate the rights and prerogatives belonging to the crown of my great Lord and Ma|&s;ter: what &s;hall become of me in &s;o doing, <HI>ip&s;e viderit.</HI> As for &s;uch <HI>a Directive power,</HI> which with the honour and &s;afety of the rights of Heaven, is attributeable unto men, who&s;e character and cognizance is this, <HI>not to be compul&s;orie unto men by any externall violence, whether di|rectly or indirectly, to &s;ub&s;cribe again&s;t their judgements and con&s;ciences to it,</HI> I can freely allow as much of it to <HI>A. S.</HI> and his Presbyteriall A&s;|&s;emblies, as will &s;tand with their peace with God, with their ho|nour in the &s;ight of unpartiall and intelligent men, with the peace and edification of the Churches of God: if they would have more (let them look to it) this de&s;ire of theirs will in time find them out and &s;lay them.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="2" TYPE="chapter">
<HEAD>Cap. 2. <HI>Concerning that executive, coercitive, and externall power in mat|ters of Religion, which</HI> A. S. <HI>a&s;cribes unto the Civill Magi&s;trate.</HI> pa. 6.</HEAD>
<P>A. <HI>S.</HI> in this &s;ixth page, to per&s;wade with the Parliament and Civill Magi&s;trate, that they &s;hall do God good &s;ervice to re|&s;igne up their eyes patiently into the hands of his Presbyterie, feeds them with the commendations of <HI>Con&s;tantine the Great, in refu&s;ing an unju&s;t and exorbitant power, which the Councell gave to him.</HI> Where (by the way) it is &s;omewhat ob&s;erveable, that it is a thing incident to Councels and Synods, to give <HI>unju&s;t and exorbitant power</HI> unto Civill Magi&s;trates. So that it &s;tands the Parliament and Civill Magi&s;trate in hand, before they part with their eyes upon &s;uch terms, to look
<PB N="41" REF="21"> about them, and to con&s;ider twi&s;e over, what power they receive and accept of from the hand of Councels and Synods, e&s;pecially in reference to matters of Religion, and the Churches or &s;ervants of Chri&s;t. It is a terrible &s;aying of Chri&s;t, enough to make both the ears of Kings and Princes, and Parliaments, (yea, and of Synods and A&s;&s;emblies too) to tingle. <HI>Who&s;oever &s;hall offend one of the&s;e little ones, that beleeve in me, it were better for him that a milstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the Sea.</HI> Matt. 18. 6. It is dangerous medling with Saints in any other way then of ten|derne&s;&s;e and love, be they never &s;o few in number, never &s;o weak in power, or otherwi&s;e <HI>(one of the&s;e little ones,</HI> &s;aith Chri&s;t); All the 21 rea&s;ons with 41 more put to them, whereby <HI>A. S.</HI> incites the Parlia|ment again&s;t a toleration of the Apologi&s;ts, with men of their judgement, in the &s;equell of his di&s;cour&s;e; will not deliver either the King or Parliament out of the hand of that threatning, if they come under the dint of it, by offering any violence (&s;hall I &s;ay?) yea any offence to the lea&s;t of the&s;e little ones. The holy Gho&s;t (1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 15. 24.) prophecieth of <HI>the putting down of all rule, and all authoritie and power by Chri&s;t:</HI> the rea&s;on thereof, in the words immediately follow|ing, he &s;heweth to be, their enmitie unto him, <HI>for he mu&s;t reign,</HI> (&s;aith the Apo&s;tle, ver&s;. 25.) <HI>till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.</HI> The truth is, that it is a very hard matter, even for the be&s;t of men, in places of rule, authoritie, and power, to move regularly in their own orbe, and not to mi&s;take, or &s;trein beyond the tenour of their commi&s;&s;ion, to intermeddle in the affairs of Chri&s;t, con&s;idering, fir&s;t that they are compa&s;&s;ed about with their own infirmities, as well as other men: &s;econdly, in re&s;pect of their callings, they are com|pa&s;&s;ed about with more tentations this way, then other men: third|ly (and la&s;tly) which is as much or more then both the former, (if they be Chri&s;tian) what between the in&s;inuations and flatteries of the ba&s;er, and the incon&s;iderate affections and favour of the better &s;ort of teachers, they are taught to da&s;h their foot again&s;t this &s;tone, as if it were another crown of glory to them.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="2" UNIT="Sect."> But let us fir&s;t &s;ee, what that <HI>executive, or coercive</HI> (if it be lawfull to cut <HI>A. S.</HI> a &s;yllable &s;horter) power is, which the man with both hands, and an importune bountie, will needs be&s;tow upon the Civil Magi&s;trate. 2, by what authoritie, and upon what grounds he doth it.</P>
<P>For the fir&s;t he de&s;cribes and &s;tates this power, after this manner, (pag. 6.) <HI>The Parliament pretends no Directive power in matters of Reli|gion&mdash;nor</HI>
<PB N="42" REF="22"> <HI>any executive power that is in trin&s;ecall to the Church&mdash;but onely an executive, coercitive, and externall power, which is not in, but about the Church; and for the Church, whereby it compelleth refractory men to obey the Church. And this Authoritie belongs actually and in effect,</HI> in actu exercito <HI>(as they &s;ay) to true Chri&s;tian Magi&s;trates; but to others potentially,</HI> in actu &s;ignato; <HI>and</HI> jure in rem <HI>onely, till they become true Chri&s;tians, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P><MILESTONE N="3" UNIT="Sect."> In this de&s;cription, the man is to me a Barbarian (his own phra&s;e to the Apologi&s;ts) in the word, <HI>Church.</HI> I have be&s;towed thoughts more then a few to be partners with him in his notion of the word; but <HI>quanto plus cogito, eo minus capio.</HI> For &s;hame <HI>A. S.</HI> out with the beame of ob&s;curitie from your own eye, before you tiffle again to pull the moat of ob&s;curitie out of your brothers eye. A man in rea|&s;on would think, that the &s;ame word, being u&s;ed foure or five times (and that without the lea&s;t intimation of any varietie or difference of &s;ignification) almo&s;t within the compa&s;&s;e of &s;o many lines, were &s;till meant, and to be taken in one and the &s;ame &s;ence. If &s;o, then ha with you. The Parliament, <HI>hy that coercitive power</HI> which you are plea&s;ed hereto be&s;tow upon it, by way of compen&s;ation for that di|rective power which you take from it, <HI>compelleth</HI> (&s;ay you) <HI>refractory men to obey the Church:</HI> I pre&s;ume that by the <HI>Church</HI> here, you do not meane all the particular Churches and congregations in the King|dome in the <HI>folio</HI> of their re&s;pective members, but in the <HI>decimo &s;exto</HI> of their Synod, or repre&s;entative a&s;&s;embly. If you take the word in the former &s;ence, you onely &s;ay, that the Parliament hath power to compell the refractory to obey all the particular Churches, with their &s;everall members, in the Kingdom; which is a &s;ence (I con|ceive) at as much defiance with your ends, as with your and our under&s;tandings. If you take it in the latter (which I doubt not but is your beloved &s;ence) then your meaning is, that the u&s;e and intent of that <HI>executive, coercive power in matters of Religion,</HI> which you put into the Parliaments hands, is to compell the Kingdom, in ca&s;e it be refractory, or <HI>tot quot,</HI> to obey the Presbyterie, and Presbyteriall a&s;&s;emblies, in all their Canons, Determinations, and Decrees what|&s;oever, without bayl or mainpri&s;e, without mercy or compa&s;&s;ion, whether a man finds &s;ap, &s;ence, &s;avour, rea&s;on or Religion in them, or no.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="4" UNIT="Sect."> But yet &s;econdly, I know not well how you &s;hould meane the Church contracted in her Grand Presbyterie or Generall A&s;&s;embly neither; fir&s;t, becau&s;e you affirm this <HI>coercive power</HI> in the Parliament,
<PB N="43" REF="22"> to be <HI>not in, but about the Church, and for the Church.</HI> And I doubt your meaning is not, that the Parliament &s;hould either onely, or chiefly work and act with this their coercive power, upon your Eccle&s;ia|&s;tique A&s;&s;emblies, to re&s;train and keep them with in compa&s;&s;e; though I confe&s;&s;e if it &s;hould move onely or chiefly in this &s;phere, it would be more <HI>for the Church, i.</HI> for the good and benefit of the Church in generall, then to &s;uffer &s;uch a&s;&s;emblies to &s;it and impo&s;e oaths upon men to obey their acts, orders, and decrees, (which you tell us, glorying in your &s;hame, pag. 42. is done in your Presbyte|riall Government) and to puni&s;h or cru&s;h tho&s;e, that &s;hall have more con&s;cience, then to en&s;lave them&s;elves unto them, in &s;uch a way.</P>
<P>And 2. if by <HI>Church</HI> you &s;hould here meane the Church repre&s;en|tative (as it is more commonly then properly called) in her gene|rall A&s;&s;embly, you would be a little more open, then (I conceive) will well &s;tand with your principles in &s;uch ca&s;es. For then your meaning is plainly this, that the Parliament hath that <HI>executive, co|ercive power,</HI> which you a&s;cribe to it, not for the Church, <HI>i.</HI> the bene|fit of the Saints and &s;ervants of God throughout the Kingdome, but for the benefit and behoofe of the Eccle&s;ia&s;tique Presbyteries and A&s;|&s;emblies onely. Now however I can ea&s;ily beleeve, that thus you would have it, yet I conceive it &s;omewhat eccentricall to your other motions to profe&s;&s;e it.</P>
<P>And yet 3, when you immediately adde; that <HI>in vertue of this au|thoritie, when parties pretend to be offended by the Church, or if the Church judge any thing ami&s;&s;e, he</HI> (the Civill Magi&s;trate) <HI>may command the Church to revi&s;e and reexamine it's judgement, &amp;c.</HI> You mu&s;t needs meane your tran&s;cendent Church of Presbyters; otherwi&s;e you &s;hould pre|varicate, and grant a judiciarie power to particular Congrega|tions.</P>
<P N="4"><MILESTONE N="5" UNIT="Sect."> 4. (And la&s;tly) in the very next <HI>page (pag.</HI> 7.) to repre&s;ent the voluntarie exile of the Apologi&s;ts, with as hard-favour'd an a&s;pect in the eyes of men as he could, his indignation again&s;t it utters it &s;elfe in this patheticall &s;treine over the poore Church of God in this Kingdome. <HI>And if they all had fled away, what might have become of the poore Church of God in this Kingdome?</HI> &amp;c. Here, by the <HI>Church of God in this Kingdome,</HI> he cannot meane the Eccle&s;ia&s;tique Church of repre|&s;enting Presbyters, becau&s;e if the&s;e had all fled away, there had been no <HI>Church of God</HI> (in &s;uch a &s;ence) <HI>in this Kingdome.</HI> By <HI>the Church of God in this place,</HI> if he means any thing like a man, he mu&s;t needs meane the Godly partie in the Kingdome, and that con&s;idered with|out
<PB N="44" REF="23"> their Presbyters or Pa&s;tors. And oh that he, and his coopina|torie partie would but grant, that that <HI>executive coercive power</HI> which is in the Civill Magi&s;trate, is for this Church; I meane for the bene|fit and peace of this <HI>Church of God.</HI> But in the meane time you &s;ee, that his Trumpet, in the de&s;cription he gives of his <HI>executive, coercive, externall power in the Magi&s;trate,</HI> gives no di&s;tinct &s;ound; perhaps he blew wild on purpo&s;e le&s;t an enemy &s;hould know how to prepare to battaile again&s;t him.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="6" UNIT="Sect."> But is there never a ble&s;&s;ing, of rea&s;on, or truth, in all this clu&s;ter? Come and &s;ee.</P>
<P><HI>In vertue of this Authoritie</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>when parties pretend to be offend|ed with the Church, or the Church judge any thing ami&s;&s;e, he</HI> (the Civill Ma|gi&s;trate) <HI>may command the Church to reexamine its judgement,</HI> &amp;c. In the&s;e few words he hath plainly plundred and undone a very con&s;idera|ble partie of his owne beloved notions el&s;ewhere. For,</P>
<P N="1">1. What rea&s;on hath he to be &s;o invective again&s;t the Apologi&s;ts (as he is <HI>pag.</HI> 49. and 50.) for holding, that Kings or Civill Magi|&s;trates are above the Church, when as him&s;elfe here profe&s;&s;eth, that <HI>they may command the Church;</HI> e&s;pecially his owne Maxime el&s;ewhere being this, that <HI>par in parem non habet imperium;</HI> and that <HI>where there is not Superiour and Inferiour, there can be no obedience or di&s;obedience.</HI></P>
<Q>Non huc, non illuc exemplo nubis aquo&s;e.</Q>
<P N="2"><MILESTONE N="7" UNIT="Sect."> 2. If the Civill Magi&s;trate hath power <HI>to command the Church to re|vi&s;e her judgement, when &s;hee judgeth any thing ami&s;&s;e,</HI> &s;urely he hath power to examine and judge of her proceedings, whether they be re|gular, equall, and ju&s;t, or no; except you will &s;ay, that he comes to the knowledge of your irregular and undue proceedings in your Presbyteries, by immediate revelation. Suppo&s;e either the one or the other, what rea&s;on have you to deny him part and fellow&s;hip with you in that <HI>Directive power in matters of Religion,</HI> which you in|gro&s;&s;e and appropriate to your &s;elves, as wee have formerly &s;eene?</P>
<P N="3">3. If &s;o, then your Presbyteriall A&s;&s;embly or judging Church, may determine and judge ami&s;&s;e. And if &s;o, 1. how dare you com|pell or make the people under your Government to &s;weare obedi|ence or &s;ubjection unto your orders, which yet by your own confe&s;|&s;ion <HI>(pag.</HI> 42.) ordinarily you doe? 2. Why are you not &s;atisfied with that &s;ubjection to your Presbyteriall Deci&s;ions, which pleadeth no exemption, but onely in the ca&s;e of non-&s;atisfaction, about the
<PB N="45" REF="23"> lawfulne&s;&s;e or truth of them: You give men a good foundation, <HI>a li|bertie to beleeve that you may erre;</HI> but you will not &s;uffer them to build upon it, to refu&s;e you, when they thinke in their &s;oules and con&s;ci|ences, that you doe erre. They that will &s;eparate between &s;uch pre|mi&s;&s;es and &s;uch conclu&s;ions, will hardly make good Chri&s;tians them&s;elves, or &s;uffer others &s;o to be. And if you be but ingenuou&s;ly willing to goe along with this your own principle; <HI>That you may erre,</HI> as far as it would gladly lead you, me thinks I dur&s;t undertake that the Apologi&s;ts and you &s;hall comprimize before to morrow next.</P>
<P N="4"><MILESTONE N="8" UNIT="Sect."> 4. (And la&s;tly) if parties may have cau&s;e to be offended, and not onely <HI>pretend</HI> to be offended (as <HI>A. S.</HI> would mince it) with the Church (as out of all que&s;tion they may, if the Church may judge ami&s;&s;e) then have they power to judge of their actions, as well as they of theirs. No man is ju&s;tifiable in his complaint or offence ta|king, but he that hath a power to examine and judge of that, which gives the cau&s;e, or mini&s;ters the occa&s;ion of the offence. And if a &s;in|gle partie, which is no Presbyter or Prophet (in your &s;ence) hath a lawfull power to examine and judge of the acts and orders of a Presbyteriall or Propheticall A&s;&s;embly, and may po&s;&s;ibly by means of &s;uch an examination take them tardie; doe not &s;o farre magnifie the &s;pirits of your Prophets again&s;t the &s;pirits of our Saints, as to thinke the&s;e good for nothing, but to &s;weare homage and va&s;&s;alage unto them.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="9" UNIT="Sect."> But <HI>A. S.</HI> (&s;urely) plea&s;eth him&s;elfe highly with a parcell of di|&s;tinctions, which he pre&s;ents us with in the prementioned De&s;cripti|on; and hopes (perhaps) to make an attonement with them for his confu&s;ions otherwi&s;e.</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, He di&s;tingui&s;heth of, that <HI>executive, coercive power,</HI> wherewith he inve&s;ts the Civill Magi&s;trate, as not being, <HI>in, or intrin&s;ecall unto the Church,</HI> but <HI>externall,</HI> and <HI>about the Church.</HI> Secondly, he di&s;tin|gui&s;heth, the &s;ubject capable of this power, the Civill Magi&s;trate, in|to <HI>truly Chri&s;tian,</HI> and <HI>not truly Chri&s;tian.</HI> Thirdly, upon this di&s;tincti|on, he builds a third di&s;tinction, concerning the manner of the com|petency of this power, to the one kind of &s;ubject and the other; tel|ling us, that this power or <HI>authoritie, belongs actually, and in effect,</HI> in actu exercito, &amp; jure in re <HI>to true Chri&s;tian Magi&s;trates; but to others potential|ly,</HI> in actu &s;ignato, <HI>and</HI> jure in rem <HI>onely till they become true Christians.</HI></P>
<P><MILESTONE N="10" UNIT="Sect."> The man (you &s;ee) hath much adoe to finde, or come at that <HI>power,</HI> wherewith he would &s;o faine gratifie the Civill Magi&s;trate, <HI>in matters of Religion:</HI> He adjures three uncleane &s;pirits of Di&s;tincti|ons,
<PB N="46" REF="24"> to tell him what, and where it is; and yet they doe but <HI>peep and mutter</HI> in their an&s;wer, and make no man the wi&s;er by it. Heer he &s;eeks for the <HI>coercive power of the Civill Magi&s;trate in matters of Religion,</HI> in the &s;ame black &s;ea of darkne&s;&s;e and confu&s;ion, wherein he &s;eeks (and would make the world beleeve he finds) the Presbyterian Go|vernment afterwards. But if the one and the other be cloz'd up in &s;uch an ammunition of rocks of di&s;tinctions, as <HI>A. S.</HI> repre&s;ents them in his &s;torie, certainly they are inacce&s;&s;ible to the judgements and con&s;ciences of per&s;ons of meane capacitie; and much more inacce&s;|&s;ible to the judgements and con&s;ciences of more under&s;tanding and con&s;idering men. The very darkne&s;&s;e it &s;elfe of the di&s;tinctions which he is nece&s;&s;itated to u&s;e, to make his way to come at the one and at the other, is a light &s;ufficient to di&s;cover, that neither the one nor the other is any where to be found within the territories either of rea&s;on or of truth. But let us &s;ee the Di&s;tinctions play a little be|fore us, for their Ma&s;ters credit.</P>
<P>For the fir&s;t: The <HI>Magi&s;trates power</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>viz. in matters of Re|ligion</HI> (for &s;o he mu&s;t nece&s;&s;arily be under&s;tood, by the Antithe&s;is in the former clau&s;e or member of this Di&s;tinction, where he denies <HI>a Directive power</HI> unto him, <HI>in matters of Religion) is not in, or intrin&s;ecall to the Church, but extrin&s;ecall and about the Church.</HI> Is it <HI>in,</HI> i. <HI>intrin&s;ecall</HI> to matters of Religion; and but <HI>extrin&s;ecall</HI> in re&s;pect of the Church? So then (it &s;eems) <HI>A. S.</HI> his Presbyteriall Church, is &s;omewhat more inward, intimate, and intrin&s;ecall, then the Religion of this Church; otherwi&s;e, how &s;hould the <HI>power of the Magi&s;trate</HI> penetrate <HI>into</HI> the <HI>Religion</HI> thereof, and yet not reach <HI>into,</HI> but onely <HI>unto</HI> the Church it &s;elfe? By this di&s;tinction he hath utterly di&s;grac'd his Presbyteriall Government, by making the Churches under it, more internall and inward, then the Religion that is to be found in them. If the Apolo|gi&s;ts had but whi&s;pered one tittle of &s;uch a &s;aying, though at never &s;uch a di&s;tance, it had been enough to have produced &s;even rea&s;ons more (at lea&s;t) again&s;t their Toleration, then are yet levied or brought forth into the world.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="11" UNIT="Sect."> But 2, though you &s;eeme to deale very bountifully with the Ma|gi&s;trate in giving him a power <HI>extrin&s;ecall</HI> and <HI>about the Church,</HI> and to content your &s;elfe and your compresbyters with an <HI>intrin&s;ecall</HI> power onely; yet by &s;omewhat that hath been lately printed, it appears, that you meane to eate at the &s;ame Table with him, which you pre|tend to &s;pread for him alone. For hath not the Pre&s;&s;e very lately been delivered of this peice of Presbyterie, that <HI>the cla&s;&s;icall Presbyte|rie</HI>
<PB N="47" REF="24"> <HI>hath the authoritative power of Citation,</HI> ju&s;t as the Bi&s;hops had? And is <NOTE PLACE="marg">Reformation cleered, p. 23.</NOTE> not &s;uch a power externall, and which is not <HI>in,</HI> but <HI>about</HI> the Chur|ches? For if a Cla&s;&s;is &s;hall cite or excommunicate a member of a Church, again&s;t the judgement and con&s;ent of the Elders of that Church, let all the world judge, whether that be not an act of ex|ternall power without the Church.</P>
<P>If it be replied, no; becau&s;e that Church did implicitly con&s;ent in yeelding their Elders for members of that Presbyterie; We reply, that if either your publick Law con&s;treins that Church upon penal|tie, <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Invitum di|citur, quod quis vel coa|ctus, vel per ignorantiam admittit. A|ri&s;t. Eth. l.</HI> 3. <HI>c.</HI> 1. <HI>Kecker. Pre|cog. Sy&s;t. Eth.</HI></NOTE> again&s;t their light, to &s;uffer their Elders to &s;it in the Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyterie, then that Church doth not freely con&s;ent; or if that Church without con&s;traint doth con&s;ent for want of light (as it mu&s;t be &s;uppo&s;ed, if a Cla&s;&s;is upon debate be found to be be&s;ides the word) this <HI>ignorant</HI> act of that Church, is an unwilling or involuntary act, and &s;o no free con&s;ent. And &s;o the Cla&s;&s;is, according to <HI>A. S.</HI> his di|&s;tinction, is like a Magi&s;trate, which is <HI>a Bi&s;hop without, and about that Church.</HI></P>
<P><MILESTONE N="12" UNIT="Sect."> But good <HI>A. S.</HI> wee know it is an ea&s;ie matter to di&s;tingui&s;h the Magi&s;trate into &s;uch an <HI>executive, coercitive, externall power as you &s;peake of;</HI> but wee would faine &s;ee you demon&s;trate him into it; and then <HI>A. S.</HI> and <HI>M. S.</HI> &s;hould be no more two, but one <HI>S.</HI> We know not how to transforme Di&s;tinctions into Demon&s;trations.</P>
<P>His &s;econd Di&s;tinction, is of the &s;ubject of this power, the Magi|&s;trate; whom he makes two-fold, <HI>truly Chri&s;tian, and not truly Chri|&s;tian.</HI> But</P>
<P N="1">1. I would faine know by what touch&s;tone <HI>A. S.</HI> will try his gold in this ca&s;e; I meane judge of the <HI>truth of Chri&s;tianitie in a Magi&s;trate.</HI> It appears (from <HI>pag.</HI> 50. of his di&s;cour&s;e) that he hath no mind to grant his <HI>truth of Chri&s;tianitie,</HI> unto a Magi&s;trate that is either <HI>Luthe|ran, Anabapti&s;t, Socinian,</HI> or <HI>Papi&s;t.</HI> Any of the&s;e mi&s;pri&s;ions in Chri|&s;tianitie, are as &s;ufficient in <HI>A. S.</HI> his judgement, as in ours, to keep the &s;word of <HI>that power</HI> wee &s;peake of, out of the Magi&s;trates hand. And as for a Magi&s;trate who&s;e judgement &s;hall be infected (perfected rea&s;on and truth would &s;ay) with Apologi&s;me, or (the great hatred of his &s;oule) independencie, I make no que&s;tion, but he (in the Co|mique terme) &s;hould be <HI>exclu&s;i&s;&s;imus</HI> from this capacitie or right a|bove all the re&s;t.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="13" UNIT="Sect."> But let us go on with the man in the terms of his own addre&s;&s;e to the Apologi&s;ts, in the &s;ame place. If he &s;aith that by <HI>a Magi&s;trate tru|ly Chri&s;tian,</HI> he under&s;tands an <HI>orthodox</HI> Magi&s;trate; <HI>what if he had one</HI>
<PB N="48" REF="25"> <HI>or two errours, would be yet permit him to be orthodox,</HI> and truly Chri&s;tian, <HI>or not?</HI> Till <HI>A. S.</HI> here &s;pecifies, <HI>Sermones generales non movent</HI> (his own rule) For my &s;elf, untill I &s;hall be otherwi&s;e informed by him&s;elf, I &s;hall make u&s;e of my rea&s;on to beleeve, that by <HI>a Magi&s;trate truly Chri&s;tian, A. S.</HI> onely means a Magi&s;trate, who in his judgement is Presbyteriall: and that this qualification of Presbyteriali&s;me, and <HI>truth of Chri&s;tianitie</HI> in a Magi&s;trate, are again&s;t all contradictions and counter-poy&s;eings what&s;oever, <HI>termini aequipollentes</HI> in his Lo|gique. And if this be his meaning, the King (to be &s;ure) hath none of his <HI>power</HI> as yet, <HI>in actu exercito,</HI> and <HI>jure in re;</HI> nor hath the Parlia|ment (at lea&s;t for ought <HI>A. S.</HI> or the Kingdom knoweth) any whit more of it, then the King. And what&s;oever it hath done hitherto, by any <HI>executive, coercive, externall</HI> power <HI>about</HI> the <HI>Church</HI> or Church affairs (in which kind it hath done very much) depends as touch|ing the validitie and ju&s;tifiablene&s;&s;e of it, upon this &s;uppo&s;ition, that it Presbyterializeth. Whence it followeth, that he that cannot, or doth not beleeve that the Parliament is of a Cla&s;&s;ique inclination, cannot (with the leave of <HI>A. S.</HI> his di&s;tinction) judge them to have done lawfully or warrantably any thing that they have done hi|therto, about, or for the Church.</P>
<P>The truth is, that till <HI>A. S.</HI> will plea&s;e to define, what manner of Magi&s;trate he mu&s;t be, that &s;hall pa&s;&s;e the te&s;t of his di&s;tinction, for <HI>truly Chri&s;tian,</HI> we are con&s;trained to &s;u&s;pend our bountie in confer|ring that <HI>executive, coercive, externall power about the Church,</HI> upon any man. Nor do I make much que&s;tion but that we &s;hall have twentie Di&s;tinctions more, before we &s;hall obtain that Definition.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="14" UNIT="Sect."> But of all the three Di&s;tinctions here upon the &s;tage, the be&s;t dan|cer is yet behind. <HI>This</HI> power, or <HI>Authoritie</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>belongs actually and in effect, in actu exercito, &amp; jure in re</HI> (it's very long, me thinks, ere we hear, to whom it belongs) <HI>to true Chri&s;tian Magi&s;trates: but to others potentially,</HI> in actu &s;ignato, &amp; jure in rem onely, <HI>untill they become truly Chri&s;tian.</HI></P>
<P N="1">1 Though I have many times heard of the di&s;tinction, <HI>in actu ex|ercito, &amp; in actu &s;ignato,</HI> yet I never heard of any thing belonging to a per&s;on <HI>in actu exercito,</HI> but that belonged to him, and that <HI>per prius, in actu &s;ignato.</HI> He to whom the principle or power of acting doth not belong, cannot &s;tand ingaged for the exerci&s;e or acting of &s;uch a power.</P>
<P N="2"><MILESTONE N="15" UNIT="Sect."> 2 My &s;oul longs for the &s;ummer fruit of a good rea&s;on from <HI>A. S.</HI> why any <HI>power about the Church, and for the Church,</HI> &s;hould not be|long,
<PB N="49" REF="25"> <HI>actually, and in effect, in actu exercito, &amp; jure in re</HI> (and with as many other, proper, unproper, nece&s;&s;arie, unnece&s;&s;arie, &s;ober, ridi|culous expre&s;&s;ions as he plea&s;eth) as well to a Magi&s;trate not yet truly Chri&s;tian, as to him that is &s;uch. Hath not an Heathen or Heterodox Magi&s;trate a lawfulne&s;&s;e of power, to do pre&s;ently, this day, this houre, to morrow, and &s;o forth, <HI>toties, quoties,</HI> as much good to and for the Church or Churches of Chri&s;t within his juri&s;|diction or dominion, as he could have if he were truly Chri&s;tian? Do acts of ju&s;tice, bountie, grace towards the Churches of Chri&s;t, any whit more defile a Magi&s;trate how farre from truly Chri&s;tian &s;oever, then acts of the &s;ame nature performed unto his other &s;ub|jects? The <HI>Kings</HI> and tho&s;e that were <HI>in authoritie</HI> in <HI>Pauls</HI> dayes, were generally (all the Kings without exception) farre from being truly Chri&s;tian; and yet was it not lawfull for them to interpo&s;e with their Authoritie or power, that the Churches of Chri&s;t in their dominions <HI>might lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godline&s;&s;e and hone|&s;ty?</HI> If not, then was that exhortation of his, 1 <HI>Tim.</HI> 2. 2. to be laid up in lavender for &s;ome hundreds of yeers after it was given; or el&s;e the benefit and ble&s;&s;ing, the obtaining whereof by prayer is made the ground of the exhortation, mu&s;t have been made over in the intentions of tho&s;e that had &s;o prayed, unto their po&s;terities after many generations. <HI>A. S.</HI> may chu&s;e which of the two he will be|leeve: for my part I &s;hall not be his corrivall in either.</P>
<P>Ye have heard <HI>A. S.</HI> his <HI>Di&s;tinctions</HI> for a <HI>coercive power</HI> about the Church in a Civill Magi&s;trate: <HI>Demon&s;trationes autem ubi?</HI> But where are his proofs?</P>
<Q><LG>
<L><HI>Quas non invenio u&s;quam, e&s;&s;e puto nu&s;quam.</HI></L>
</LG>
<LG>
<L>What I find not any where, I beleeve to be no where.</L>
</LG></Q>
<P><MILESTONE N="16" UNIT="Sect."> I have &s;earched, and that &s;omewhat narrowly, throughout the whole volume of his Di&s;cour&s;e, to find &s;omething, that with any indulgence of imagination might be conceived to look like a proof of this his opinion, and can find none, &s;ave onely that poore one of the examples of the Kings of Juda (pag. 63.) enforc'd after this manner; <HI>It is the Civill Magi&s;trates part to take away Here&s;ies, Super&s;titi|ons, and corruptions in manners after the examples of the Kings of Juda. Wherefore then is it not his duty likewi&s;e to take away all &s;chi&s;mes which are the high-way to</HI> (and &s;ometimes from) <HI>Here&s;ie, and con&s;equently to deny Toleration, which is away to both?</HI></P>
<P>Reader neither you nor I, mu&s;t be offended, to have a molle-hill
<PB N="50" REF="26"> of proof given us for a mountain of conclu&s;ion. You mu&s;t know it is the manner of the Presbyterian &s;chool, to hang great weights up|on &s;mall wyars. For what need Dictators argue? But,</P>
<P N="1"><MILESTONE N="17" UNIT="Sect."> 1. If it be the Magi&s;trates part to take away <HI>Super&s;titions, Here&s;ies, &amp;c.</HI> &s;ure it is his part al&s;o to make him&s;elf able to di&s;cern &s;uper&s;ti|tions and here&s;ies, from the true wor&s;hip, and truths of God. He is to &s;erve God in &s;uch a practice, with his own under&s;tanding, and not by the Proctorage of a Presbyterie (as you tell the Apologi&s;ts, pag. 48. that they mu&s;t <HI>not &s;erve God by a Proctor)</HI> and if &s;o, you mu&s;t untru&s;&s;e, and deliver back again to him that <HI>Directive power</HI> in mat|ters of Religion, which you lately took from him.</P>
<P N="2"><MILESTONE N="18" UNIT="Sect."> 2. When the Magi&s;trate <HI>takes</HI> away Super&s;tition, Here&s;ie, &amp;c. he had need have better &s;ecuritie, then a Synod can give him, to &s;ave him harmle&s;&s;e, in ca&s;e he &s;hould <HI>mi&s;take,</HI> and &s;mite the truth of God in&s;tead of <HI>Here&s;ie,</HI> and the true wor&s;hip of God, in&s;tead of <HI>Super&s;ti|tion. Gamaliel</HI> might have had the full vote of a Synod or Councill, for per&s;ecuting the <HI>&s;uper&s;tition, &s;chi&s;me and here&s;ie</HI> of the Apo&s;tles; but <NOTE PLACE="marg">Act 5. 24. 28. 38, 39.</NOTE> this was not &s;ecuritie enough to him; he was afraid of <HI>fighting again&s;t God,</HI> this notwith&s;tanding. And for my part, when the Civill Ma|gi&s;trate &s;hall be farre enough out of this danger of <HI>fighting again&s;t God,</HI> I have nothing to &s;ay again&s;t his fighting with &s;uper&s;tition, he|re&s;ie, &s;chi&s;me, corruptions in manners, &amp;c. Onely my prayer for him unto God is, that he would give him a wi&s;e and under&s;tanding heart, to con&s;ider and di&s;cern, whether u&s;urpation over the judge|ments and con&s;ciences of the Saints of God, in matters of Religion, be not as Grand <HI>a corruption in manners</HI> as a Church or Kingdom is lightly incident unto.</P>
<P N="3"><MILESTONE N="19" UNIT="Sect."> 3. Becau&s;e the examples of the Kings of Judah for want of better arguments, are &s;o much importun'd to &s;peak a good word for that <HI>executive coercive power</HI> in the Civill Magi&s;trate, with which <HI>A. S.</HI> would truk with him for that Directive power (before &s;poken of) let us con&s;ider with a little more freedome and ingenuitie, what they contribute thereunto.</P>
<P N="1">1. We do not read that any of the good Kings of Judah, ever of|fered any violence to the true Prophets, or people of the Lord, ex|cept it were in pa&s;&s;ion, as 2 <HI>Chron.</HI> 16. 10. where <HI>A&s;a</HI> is &s;aid to have been <HI>wroth with the Seer,</HI> that admoni&s;hed him, and to <HI>have put him in pri&s;on.</HI> Which fact of his I think <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf will be a&s;ham'd to pre&s;ent either to Kings or Parliaments for imitation. Therefore what&s;oever be&s;ides may be prov'd from the example of the <HI>Kings of</HI>
<PB N="51" REF="26"> <HI>Judah in matters of Religion,</HI> towards the rearing up of a Presbyterie in the perfection of it's glory; certain it is, that nothing can be pro|ved, for the per&s;ecuting, annoying, cru&s;hing, di&s;gracing, bani&s;hing, finening the Apologi&s;ts, whom him&s;elf (more then once or twice) acknowledgeth for very pious, godly, and learned men.</P>
<P N="2">2. Neither did any of the&s;e Kings ever compell any man to be of the Jewi&s;h Religion; nor yet to profe&s;&s;e the Jewi&s;h Religion again&s;t their judgements. It was permitted to per&s;ons of other Na|tions to live among&s;t them, without being circumci&s;ed, yea or with|out &s;marting for want of it.</P>
<P N="3"><MILESTONE N="20" UNIT="Sect."> 3. Nor do we read, that ever they attempted any thing again&s;t any Sectaries or Schi&s;matiques (as <HI>A. S.</HI> would call them) which yet abounded in great varietie, and numbers among&s;t them. We do not find, that ever they find, impri&s;on'd, bani&s;hed, put to death, either Scribes or Phari&s;ees or Herodians, or per&s;ons of any other Sect in the profe&s;&s;ion of the Jewi&s;h Religion, that lived peaceably in their State. Idolatrie and Idolaters were (it &s;eems) the adaequate object of their <HI>coercive power</HI> in matters of Religion.</P>
<P N="4"><MILESTONE N="21" UNIT="Sect."> 4. Nor did they, nor were they to inflict any outward puni&s;h|ment, upon every kind of Idolater, though of the Jewi&s;h both Na|tion and Religion; as fir&s;t, not upon covetous per&s;ons, who yet are a kind of Idolater. <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 5. 5. Nor, &s;econdly, upon tho&s;e that wor|&s;hipped the true God of I&s;rael, though with &s;ome violation of the &s;econd Commandment, as when they &s;acrificed in the high places, &amp;c. But, fir&s;t, upon &s;uch onely who apo&s;tatiz'd from the God of I&s;rael, to &s;erve &s;trange gods, the gods of other Nations: And yet &s;e|condly, not upon &s;uch neither, &s;imply as &s;uch, but as attempting to intice, and draw away other of the people of God unto the &s;ame Ido|latries with them. <HI>Deut.</HI> 13. 5. 8. 9.</P>
<P N="5"><MILESTONE N="22" UNIT="Sect."> 5. There are two rea&s;ons very con&s;iderable why the Kings of Ju|dah might be inve&s;ted by God with a larger power in matters of Religion, then Kings or Magi&s;trates under the Go&s;pel have any ground or warrant to claime from them. Fir&s;t, they were types of Chri&s;t, which no King under heaven at this day is; Secondly, not the people onely, but the very Land over which they ruled, were ty|picall al&s;o; the one, of the &s;pirituall Church of Chri&s;t, the other of the heavenly inheritance of that Church: both of them holy and con&s;ecrate in &s;peciall manner unto God. If Kings and Magi&s;trates under the Go&s;pel can plead either the&s;e rea&s;ons, or any other of equall con&s;ideration with the&s;e, I &s;hall not &s;cruple an acknowledge|ment
<PB N="52" REF="27"> of an equalitie of power in them. But otherwi&s;e, to alledge the power of the Kings of Judah in matters of Religion, for an in|ve&s;titure of Kings and Magi&s;trates under the Go&s;pel, with the like, ju&s;tifies the arguing of the Prelaticall School, which pleads the order of the Aaronicall Prie&s;thood, to demon&s;trate the nece&s;&s;itie of a me|tropoliticall &s;overeigntie.</P>
<P N="6"><MILESTONE N="23" UNIT="Sect."> 6. It no where appears that any of the godly Kings of Judah, ever had, or exerci&s;ed any power to &s;uppre&s;&s;e, bani&s;h, impri&s;on, trample upon, cru&s;h, or grinde the faces of any godly per&s;ons among them, were they few or many, onely becau&s;e they were for a while tender in point of con&s;cience to concurre with the major part of the Prie&s;ts, Scribes or Levites in &s;ome things di&s;puteable between them, and others in the Land. Untill <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;hall dig &s;uch a trea&s;ure as this out of the Scriptures, he will never have &s;ufficient wherewith to fi|ni&s;h that tower of <HI>a magi&s;traticall coercive power in matters of Religion,</HI> which he hath begun to build.</P>
<P N="7"><MILESTONE N="24" UNIT="Sect."> 7. If <HI>A. S.</HI> (or any other) will needs make the Kings of Judah tri|butaries to his opinion, concerning that <HI>coercive power</HI> we &s;peak of in the Civill Magi&s;trate, he mu&s;t fir&s;t prove, that the&s;e Kings were inve&s;ted with that power which they exerci&s;ed in matters of Reli|gion, by a morall Law, and which is of perpetuall obligation and engagement upon other Nations. For &s;uch a weak man as I, will rather incline to think, that it was conferr'd upon them by a Law Politique and judiciall: and which no more concerneth or obligeth Kings and Magi&s;trates of other Nations, then that Law mentioned in the &s;ame place with it, (and which indeed is part of it) <HI>(Deut.</HI> 13.) which injoyneth <HI>ihe &s;laying of the inhabitants of the</HI> idolatrous <HI>City with the edge of the &s;word, and the de&s;troying of it utterly with all that is there|in, and the cattell thereof, with the edge of the &s;word; and the gathering of all the &s;poyl thereof into the mid&s;t of the &s;treet thereof, and the burning of the City with fire, and all the &s;poil thereof every whit; and the making it an heap for ever, and the not building it again.</HI> I think <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf doth not con|ceive Chri&s;tian Kings or Magi&s;trates engag'd in con&s;cience to ob|&s;erve all the particulars of this Law.</P>
<P N="8"><MILESTONE N="25" UNIT="Sect."> 8. (and la&s;tly) if you con&s;ult with tho&s;e pa&s;&s;ages in the Law, where that power, which the Kings of Judah exerci&s;ed about Ido|latry and Idolaters (for they went no further; they medled not with the cru&s;hing of Sects or Schi&s;mes as we heard) you will find, that it was the generalitie or entire body of the Church or Nation of the Jews, and not their Kings, that was inve&s;ted with it by God.
<PB N="53" REF="27"> See <HI>Deut.</HI> 13. from the beginning to the end: and again, <HI>Deut.</HI> 7. 5. and Chap. 12. 2, 3. with many of like con&s;ideration. So that what they did in this kind, they did it, or were to have done it, in the Name, and with the con&s;ent of the body of their people.</P>
<P>But the Grand Pillar and &s;upporter of this <HI>Coercive power</HI> in Ma|gi&s;trates, is this angry and di&s;contented argument. What? would you have all Religions, &s;ects, and &s;chi&s;mes tolerated in Chri&s;tian Churches? Should Jews, Turks, (and Papi&s;ts, e&s;pecially,) be &s;uffer|ed in their Religions? what a confu&s;ion mu&s;t this needs breed both in Church and State? Give me leave to demulce and pacifie this ar|gument; and then we advance to a new &s;ubject. I an&s;wer by di&s;tin|gui&s;hing.</P>
<P N="1"><MILESTONE N="26" UNIT="Sect."> 1. If by <HI>a toleration,</HI> the argument means, either an approbation, or &s;uch a connivence which either takes no knowledge of, or how|ever no wayes oppo&s;eth &s;uch Religions, Sects, or Schi&s;mes, as are unwarrantable, they are not to be tolerated. But, fir&s;t, orthodox and able Mini&s;ters ought in the cour&s;e of their publique mini&s;tery, and otherwi&s;e upon occa&s;ion, in a grave, &s;ober, and inoffen&s;ive man|ner, &s;oundly from the Scriptures to evince the folly, vanitie and fal&s;hood of all &s;uch wayes. Secondly, others al&s;o that have an a|nointing of light and knowledge from God, are bound to contri|bute occa&s;ionally the be&s;t of their indeavours towards the &s;ame end. Thirdly, in ca&s;e the Mini&s;ter &s;hall be negligent or forgetfull of his dutie in this kind, the Magi&s;trate may and ought from time to time to admoni&s;h him, that he fulfill his mini&s;tery in that point al&s;o. Fourthly, if a per&s;on, one, two, or more, being members of a particular Church, &s;hall be infected with any hereticall or danger|ous opinion, and after two or three admonitions, with means of conviction u&s;ed to regain him, &s;hall continue ob&s;tinate, he ought to be ca&s;t out from among&s;t them by that Church. Fiftly, (and la&s;tly) If it be an whole Church that is &s;o corrupted and infected, the re&s;t of the neighbour Churches (in ca&s;e it hath any) ought to admoni&s;h it, and to indeavour the reclaiming of it. if it be refractory after competent admonition, and means u&s;ed for the reducing of it, they may and ought to renounce communion with it: and &s;o &s;et a mark or brand of here&s;ie and ob&s;tinacie in the forehead of it. But</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="27" UNIT="Sect."> Secondly, if by a toleration, the argument means, a non-&s;uppre&s;|&s;ion of &s;uch Religions, Sects, and Schi&s;mes by a &s;trong hand, as by fineing, impri&s;oning, disfranchi&s;ing, bani&s;hment, death, or the like, my An&s;wer is, that they ought to be tolerated, onely upon this &s;up|po&s;ition,
<PB N="54" REF="28"> that the Profe&s;&s;ors or maintainers of them, be otherwi&s;e peaceable in the State, and every waies &s;ubject to the Laws, and law|full power of the Civill Magi&s;trate. My rea&s;ons are,</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="28" UNIT="Sect."> Fir&s;t, becau&s;e God hath anointed and &s;anctified his Word, and the mini&s;tery hereof, for the <HI>ca&s;ting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts it &s;elf again&s;t the knowledge of God, and for the bringing in|to captivitie every thought unto the obedience of Chri&s;t.</HI> 2 Cor. 10. 5. The Apo&s;tle in this place, <HI>v.</HI> 4. affirms, that the <HI>weapons of his warfare</HI> (meaning the knowledge which he had of God, and of Je&s;us Chri&s;t in the Go&s;pel, and his abilities of utterance and preaching) <HI>were mighty through God,</HI> for tho&s;e ends and purpo&s;es. When God hath appointed a means, and that of &s;o much efficacie and power, either to prevent an inconvenience, or to accompli&s;h any end or effect what&s;oever, for men to wave this means, and to intere&s;&s;e another of their own, is both to put an affront upon God, and to con&s;ult fru&s;tration and di&s;appointment to them&s;elves. And for mine own part, I am all thoughts made, that the true and adaequate rea&s;on why tho&s;e Sects, and Schi&s;mes and wild opinions, which are lately &s;tarted among&s;t us, gather &s;o much &s;trength and head, and grow &s;o fa&s;t upon us as they do daily, is this; that we reject the wi&s;edome and coun&s;ell of God for the oppo&s;ing and &s;uppre&s;&s;ing of them, and have recour&s;e to our own arm, hoping by di&s;gracing, di&s;placing, way-laying, impoveri&s;hing, &s;u&s;pending, impri&s;oning, and other weapons and wayes of the fle&s;h, to ea&s;e our &s;elves of the burthen|&s;omene&s;&s;e and trouble of them. Be&s;ides the Scripture mentioned, there is a pa&s;&s;age of full importance this way, <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 4. 11. 12. &amp;c. <HI>And he gave &s;ome Apo&s;tles, and &s;ome Prophets, and &s;ome Evangeli&s;ts, and &s;ome Pa&s;tors and Teachers, for the perfecting of the Saints, for the work of the mini&s;tery, for the edifying of the body of Chri&s;t, untill we all come into the unitie of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,</HI> &amp;c. We &s;ee here that Gods de&s;igne and de&s;ire, as well as ours, is <HI>unitie,</HI> and perfect agreement among&s;t the Saints, in all matters of faith and know|ledge. But how, or by what means, or by whom hath he projected and purpo&s;ed the obtaining of this his de&s;ire? mark, he doth not &s;ay, that he gave &s;ome Kings, and &s;ome Princes, and &s;ome Judges, and Ju&s;tices of the peace, &s;ome Pur&s;evants, and &s;ome Jaylors, &amp;c. to bring us <HI>into the unitie</HI> of the faith; no, but <HI>he gave &s;ome Apo&s;tles, and &s;ome Prophets, and &s;ome Evangeli&s;ts, and &s;ome Pa&s;tors and Teachers,</HI> to bring this de&s;ireable end of his to pa&s;&s;e. And if we would make more u&s;e of the&s;e agents and in&s;truments of God, <HI>of the Apo&s;tles, Prophets, Evan|geli&s;ts,</HI>
<PB N="55" REF="28"> <HI>of Pa&s;tors and Teachers,</HI> and le&s;&s;e of tho&s;e other (which are our own) for the quenching of tho&s;e flames of divi&s;ions and di&s;&s;entions that are among&s;t us in matters of Religion, we might in all likeli|hood &s;ee our de&s;ires in this behalf many yeers &s;ooner then by any other cour&s;e we are like to do. The word of God, e&s;pecially in the hand of an able Mini&s;ter (among other ends) is given by God on purpo&s;e for the <HI>conviction</HI> and <HI>&s;topping of the mouthes of gain&s;ayers.</HI> Tit. 1. 9. 11. And therefore this will do it, when a thou&s;and other means, not having this anointing oyl upon them, though never &s;o plau&s;ible, and promi&s;ing in the eye of humane wi&s;edom, will rather open them yet wider, then otherwi&s;e.</P>
<P N="2"><MILESTONE N="29" UNIT="Sect."> 2. It is the expre&s;&s;e order and command of God to Mini&s;ters of the Go&s;pel, upon whom chiefly it lies, by way of office and dutie to in|&s;truct <NOTE PLACE="marg">The &s;ervant of the Lord mu&s;t not &s;trive, but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, In meekne&s;&s;e in|&s;tructing tho&s;e that oppo&s;e them&s;elves, if God perad|venture will give them re|pentance to the acknow|ledgement of the truth. 2 <HI>Tim.</HI> 2. 24, 25.</NOTE> and convince gain&s;ayers, and men contrary-minded to the truth, to performe the&s;e offices unto them <HI>with meekne&s;&s;e;</HI> and there|fore not to threaten them with delivering them over to the &s;ecular powers, or to incite the Civill Magi&s;trate again&s;t them. And if it be not lawfull for the Mini&s;ter to incourage or put on the Civill Magi|&s;trate to u&s;e any externall violence or compul&s;ion again&s;t &s;uch, cer|tainly it is not lawfull, much le&s;&s;e any point of dutie for him to pro|ceed in any &s;uch way again&s;t them. And if &s;uch meekne&s;&s;e be to be u&s;ed towards tho&s;e that are profe&s;&s;ed enemies to Chri&s;tian Religion in the maine (of which the Scripture in the margent evidently &s;peak|eth) much more is it to be &s;hewed towards tho&s;e, who it may be are as cordially affected to this Religion, as our &s;elves, onely di&s;&s;enting from us in &s;ome <HI>apices</HI> or <HI>iota's</HI> of this Religion.</P>
<P N="3"><MILESTONE N="30" UNIT="Sect."> 3. <HI>Repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth,</HI> being (as wee &s;ee) a &s;peciall <HI>gift of God,</HI> and no man capable of it by his owne indu&s;trie or &s;eeking, it is very unrea&s;onable, that the want of it, being in it &s;elfe a judgement upon a man from God, and withall no wayes prejudi|ciall or hurtfull unto others (at lea&s;t not nece&s;&s;arily or unavoidably hurtfull unto any) &s;hould expo&s;e him to further puni&s;hment and mi|&s;ery from men. I conceive a rea&s;onable man will thinke it very hard and unrea&s;onable, to puni&s;h a man for not doing of that, which is onely proper and in the power of God to doe.</P>
<P N="4"><MILESTONE N="31" UNIT="Sect."> 4. Externall compul&s;ion in matters of Religion, is of a proper and direct tendencie, to make men twofold more the children of &s;in (and &s;o of wrath) then they were before, or would be otherwi&s;e. Now that which directly tends to increa&s;e &s;in &amp; iniquitie in a Land, cannot be lawfull or from God. Suppo&s;e the State-Religion, and
<PB N="56" REF="29"> manner of wor&s;hipping God, which the Magi&s;trate practi&s;eth, and profe&s;&s;eth, be agreeable to the truth; yet if I, having no &s;uch faith of either, but judging in my &s;oule and con&s;cience that both State and Magi&s;trate, are polluted in both, &s;hould make profe&s;&s;ion of ei|ther as the truth, I &s;hould be a notorious hypocrite and di&s;&s;embler before God and men, wounding my con&s;cience and condemning my &s;elfe, in what I allow in this ca&s;e. And yet &s;uch a profe&s;&s;ion as this, is that which the compul&s;ive power of the Magi&s;trate &s;eeks to extort from me. In which ca&s;e I mu&s;t &s;uffer, becau&s;e I will not &s;in, to the ruine and de&s;truction of my &s;oule.</P>
<P>If it be objected; that the intent of the Magi&s;trates compul&s;ion in this ca&s;e, is not to extort a profe&s;&s;ion from me again&s;t my judgement and con&s;cience, but to engage me to rectifie and reforme my judge|ment according to the truth, and &s;o to make profe&s;&s;ion accord|ingly.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer; Fir&s;t, that I &s;tand already engaged by a farre greater band hereunto, <HI>viz.</HI> my peace with God, and the &s;afety of my &s;oule, then &s;uffering temporally from the Civill power. Nor can it rea|&s;onably be here replied to me, that many will doe more for feare of a pre&s;ent temporall puni&s;hment, then of the future lo&s;&s;e of their &s;oules; becau&s;e they that will doe this, will be ready enough to comply with the Magi&s;trate in his Religion, what ever it be, with|out compul&s;ion. Secondly, If the intent of the temporall compul&s;i|on bent again&s;t me, be my engagement to rectifie my judgement ac|cording to the truth, and then to profe&s;&s;e accordingly, why is it di&s;|charged upon me before it be known, whether I have not di&s;charg|ed &s;uch my engagements to the uttermo&s;t of my power, and yet am not able to call that truth, which the Magi&s;trate would have me &s;o to call? <HI>Many</HI> (&s;aith <HI>Solomon) &s;eeke the face of the Ruler:</HI> and who <NOTE PLACE="marg">Pro. 29. 26.</NOTE> would not gladly &s;econd the Magi&s;trate in his Religion, if he had his judgement and con&s;cience in his own hand or power?</P>
<P N="5"><MILESTONE N="32" UNIT="Sect."> 5. If the Civill Magi&s;trate hath an actuall coercive power to &s;up|pre&s;&s;e &s;chi&s;mes, here&s;ies, &amp;c. becau&s;e he is <HI>truly Chri&s;tian,</HI> which he had not before, then truth of Chri&s;tianitie alters the propertie and tenour of Magi&s;tracie, and that for the wor&s;e, in re&s;pect of tho&s;e that are in &s;ubjection to it, yea, and (po&s;&s;ibly) in re&s;pect of the be&s;t of tho&s;e that are in &s;uch &s;ubjection. Before he was <HI>truly Chri&s;tian,</HI> he had (&s;aith <HI>A. S.</HI> and Presbyterians generally) no power, to puni&s;h, fine, impri&s;on, bani&s;h, cru&s;h any of his &s;ubjects for the exerci&s;e of their con&s;cience towards God: but by vertue of that great mercy vouch|&s;afed
<PB N="57" REF="29"> unto him by God, in giving him part and fellow&s;hip with the Saints in Je&s;us Chri&s;t, he is inve&s;ted with a new power to per&s;ecute the Saints, and to make them pay dearly for having con&s;ciences better (it may be) then his owne, at lea&s;t better then to comply out|wardly, with what they cannot inwardly dige&s;t and approve. If this be the ca&s;e between a Chri&s;tian, and the Civill Magi&s;trate under whom he lives, he hath &s;mall incouragement, to pray for the con|ver&s;ion of &s;uch a Magi&s;trate to the truth, in ca&s;e he were for the pre|&s;ent Heterodox or Pagan; it being farre better for him to live under &s;uch a Magi&s;tracie, which hath no power to mi&s;-u&s;e him for his con|&s;cience &s;ake, then under that which hath, yea, and is made to be|leeve, that it ought to u&s;e it accordingly.</P>
<P N="6"><MILESTONE N="33" UNIT="Sect."> 6. That power is very dangerous for a Magi&s;trate to owne, in the exerci&s;e whereof, he may very ea&s;ily (and commonly doth) run an hazard (at lea&s;t) <HI>of fighting again&s;t God,</HI> or of <HI>plucking up</HI> that which God hath <HI>planted,</HI> or of pulling downe that, which God hath built up. But &s;uch is that power of &s;uppre&s;&s;ing &s;chi&s;mes, here&s;ies, &amp;c. which <HI>A. S. Cum multis alijs,</HI> are very earne&s;t to fa&s;ten upon him. <HI>Ergo.</HI> The Propo&s;ition (I conceive) is too much every mans &s;ence and con&s;ent, to be <HI>A. S.</HI> his di&s;&s;ent. The A&s;&s;umption I demon&s;trate by this rea&s;on: Becau&s;e tho&s;e practi&s;es and opinions in Religion, which the Magi&s;trate is borne in hand by tho&s;e, with who&s;e eyes he &s;ees in &s;uch ca&s;es, are &s;chi&s;maticall, erroneous, and contrary unto God; may very po&s;&s;ibly be the wayes of God, and truths of God (&s;uch mens judgements of them notwith&s;tanding.) For fir&s;t, the judgements of the&s;e men are not Apo&s;tolicall or infallible. <HI>A. S.</HI> him|&s;elfe, who makes his demands for Presbyterian &s;overaigntie, as high as another, yet dares not lay claime to this crowne. Therefore it's po&s;&s;ible for them to be in a mi&s;pri&s;ion about &s;ome Que&s;tion, or con|trover&s;iall point in Religion. Secondly, Frequent experience &s;hews, that a minor part (yea a partie for number incon&s;iderable) of god|ly per&s;ons in a Church or State, may have the mind of God and of Chri&s;t among&s;t them in &s;ome particulars, before the generalitie or major part of this Church, comes to be enlightened or intere&s;&s;ed in it. For a proofe whereof <HI>ad hominem</HI> we need goe no further, then to that partie of godly per&s;ons in the Land, who &s;tood up in Queene <HI>Elizabeths,</HI> and King <HI>James</HI> his dayes, for Presbyteriall Government, when as the farre greater part both of Magi&s;trates and Mini&s;ters in the Kingdome, were in their judgements oppo&s;ite hereunto, and wholly Epi&s;copall. So that had that Queene, or King, or any Par|liament
<PB N="58" REF="30"> under them, gone about to &s;uppre&s;&s;e that party, which yet was then look'd upon as &s;chi&s;maticall, factious, and erronious, they had (according to <HI>A. S.</HI> his judgement touching the judgement of tho&s;e men) <HI>fought again&s;t God,</HI> and &s;ought to pluck up that which he hath planted. Yea thirdly (and la&s;tly) it &s;eldome or never fals out, that any truth, which hath for a long time been under hatches, and unknown to the generalitie of Mini&s;ters and other learned men in a Church or State, hath been at the fir&s;t, and on the &s;udden, di&s;|covered by God, either unto the Generalitie, or major part of them, but unto &s;ome few onely, yea and &s;ometimes but unto one (for a &s;ea&s;on) by, and from whom, he is plea&s;ed to propagate the light and knowledge of it unto more afterwards. If then the Magi&s;trate &s;hould ri&s;e up to &s;uppre&s;&s;e this truth, or tho&s;e that hold it forth un|to the world, becau&s;e it hath few friends and many enemies a|mong&s;t the Ma&s;ters in his I&s;rael, and is generally look'd upon as a &s;chi&s;maticall and erroneous opinion, &s;hould he not (in <HI>Gamaliel's</HI> &s;ence) <HI>fight again&s;t God?</HI> The <HI>hou&s;holder</HI> in the parable forbad the <HI>plucking up of the tares out of his field, for fear of plucking up the wheat with them.</HI> Matth. 13. 29.</P>
<P N="7"><MILESTONE N="34" UNIT="Sect."> 7. That power which was never attributed to the Civill Magi|&s;trate, by any Chri&s;tians, but onely by tho&s;e that had very good a&s;|&s;urance that it &s;hould be u&s;ed for them, and on their &s;ide, is not like to be a power appertaining to them by divine right, or conferr'd upon them by God. The rea&s;on of this propo&s;ition is, becau&s;e it is no wayes credible, that within the compa&s;&s;e of &s;o many ages as are by-gone, no one man of that con&s;cientious generation of Saints, which hath been wont &s;o frequently to deny it &s;elf even unto death, &s;hould acknowledge &s;uch a power in the Civill Magi&s;trate, as did by divine right belong unto him, onely becau&s;e &s;uch an acknow|ledgement was like to make again&s;t him&s;elf. Therefore I a&s;&s;ume. But that coercive power in matters of Religion, for the &s;uppre&s;&s;ing of errours, &s;chi&s;mes, here&s;ies, &amp;c. was never attributed to the Civill Magi&s;trate by any Chri&s;tian, but onely by tho&s;e that were very con|fident, <NOTE PLACE="marg">See for the fur|ther proof of the minor Pro|po&s;ition Mr. <HI>Jo. Robin&s;ons</HI> E&s;&s;ayes, p. 49. 50. &amp;c.</NOTE> that it would be u&s;ed for their turns, and to effect their de|&s;ires. <HI>Ergo. A. S.</HI> him&s;elf is warie and tender above mea&s;ure in con|ferring it upon him; di&s;tingui&s;hing once and again and the third time al&s;o upon it (as we heard) before he dares let him have it; yea and in the clo&s;e doth as much (in effect) as tell him, that except he be Presbyterian right down, and will accommodate him and his partie with it, he ought not to claim it.</P>
<PB N="59" REF="30">
<P N="8"><MILESTONE N="35" UNIT="Sect."> 8. That power which in the exerci&s;e of it, directly tends to pre|vent, hinder, or &s;uppre&s;&s;e the growth and increa&s;e of the light of the knowledge of God, and Je&s;us Chri&s;t in a Church or State, and the Reformation of &s;uch things, whether in Doctrine or Di&s;cipline, as are unwarrantable therein, is not (que&s;tionle&s;&s;e) of any Divine right or In&s;titution. If <HI>A. S.</HI> deny this propo&s;ition, at the perill of his mode&s;tie and reputation be it. So then I a&s;&s;ume; But &s;uch a power in the Civill Magi&s;trate as we &s;peak of, directly tends to all the mi&s;chief and inconvenience mentioned. <HI>Ergo.</HI> The evidence of the a&s;&s;umption is this; when men are obnoxious to the &s;troke of the Civill power, and in danger of &s;uffering deeply from the Magi&s;trate, for any thing that they &s;hall hold or practi&s;e in Religion contrarie unto him, it mu&s;t needs be a great tentation and di&s;couragement upon them, from &s;earching and inquiring into the Scriptures, after a more exact knowledge of <HI>the good and holy and perfect will of God</HI> in things; becau&s;e in ca&s;e he &s;hould di&s;cover any thing contrarie to what the Magi&s;trate profe&s;&s;eth, he mu&s;t run the hazard, either of <HI>with-holding the truth</HI> he &s;o di&s;covers, <HI>in unrighteou&s;ne&s;&s;e,</HI> and &s;o of ha|ving both God and his own con&s;cience his enemie, or el&s;e of having his bones broken by the iron rod of the Civill Magi&s;trate, for ma|king profe&s;&s;ion of any thing contrarie to that which he profe&s;&s;eth.</P>
<P N="9"><MILESTONE N="36" UNIT="Sect."> 9. That power which in the u&s;e of it plainly and palpably tends to the gratification of Satan, carnall and prophane men, is not (cer|tainly) derived from God. To prove this propo&s;ition, would be but the lighting up of a torch to &s;ee the Sun. I a&s;&s;ume; But that <HI>power in matters of Religion,</HI> to cru&s;h &s;chi&s;mes, here&s;ies, &amp;c. which is by <HI>A. S.</HI> and many others pinn'd upon the Magi&s;trates &s;leeve, is a power of this tendencie and importance in the u&s;e of it. <HI>Ergo.</HI> This latter pro|po&s;ition &s;hines clear enough with this light. Fir&s;t, a very great part (if not farre the greate&s;t) of tho&s;e that are like to &s;uffer by it, are men of good con&s;cience, and truly fearing God. This is manife&s;t in the Apologi&s;ts and men of their judgement, whom <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf, over and over (though condemning him&s;elf <HI>toties quoties)</HI> acknow|ledgeth for very <HI>pious and godly men.</HI> Nor is it like that (ordinarily) men of loo&s;e or no con&s;cience, &s;hould delight to &s;wim again&s;t the &s;treams either of greatne&s;&s;e or pluralitie, in matters of Religion. Now then it cannot but be conceived to be matter of &s;olemne gra|tification to Satan, who is a murtherer, and bloodie enemie to the Saints, to &s;ee them di&s;graced, cru&s;hed, troden and trampled upon, e&s;pecially by tho&s;e, whom God hath appointed to be their prote|ctors,
<PB N="60" REF="31"> and mo&s;t of all that this grievous mea&s;ure &s;hould be mea&s;ured out unto them for the goodne&s;&s;e of their con&s;ciences towards God.</P>
<P>Secondly, It is the impatient and importune de&s;ire of all ignorant, loo&s;e, lukewarme, and carnall profe&s;&s;ors, to have all Religions (as they call them) all wayes, &s;ects, opinions, and practi&s;es in Religion, wholly &s;ilenc'd, &s;uppre&s;&s;'d, and aboli&s;hed where they live, excepting onely that one way and practi&s;e, which &s;hall be authoriz'd and pra|cti&s;ed by the State. Becau&s;e by this means, they hope they &s;hall not be di&s;tracted about their Religion, nor be put upon that &s;ore trouble of &s;eeking it they know not where, or among&s;t whom; but &s;hall have it put into their mouths by the hand of Authoritie; which they hope likewi&s;e will &s;tand between them and harme, in ca&s;e it &s;hould not prove a Religion of that puritie and goodnes, which God requireth.</P>
<P N="10"><MILESTONE N="37" UNIT="Sect."> 10. (And la&s;tly) That power which in the u&s;e of it, directly tends to defile and pollute the con&s;ciences of men, either by de&s;troy|ing the &s;oftne&s;&s;e, tenderne&s;&s;e, and ingenuitie of them, or by di&s;turb|ing the lawfull peace and comfort of them, or by both, is a power from beneath, not from above. (This propo&s;ition al&s;o a con&s;cience any whit ingenuous cannot lightly deny) But &s;uch is the <HI>coercive power in matters of Religion,</HI> wherewith <HI>A. S.</HI> would faine befriend him&s;elfe, in the Civill Magi&s;trate. <HI>Ergo.</HI> The truth of the A&s;&s;ump|tion, appears in this con&s;ideration: when the con&s;cience of a man hath once broke the bands and tie of it's owne light, and pro&s;tituted it &s;elfe to the de&s;ires and plea&s;ures of men, again&s;t the graine of it's owne judgement and inclination (whereunto it is &s;orely tempted and urged, when the man is threatned deep, in ca&s;e he &s;hall not com|plie with the State in their Religion, his judgement and con&s;cience being wholly a ver&s;e to it) one of the&s;e two great evills or mi&s;eries commonly befalls him. Either 1. God takes no more plea&s;ure in &s;uch a con&s;cience afterwards, but withdrawing him&s;elfe from it, leaves it unto it &s;elfe, whereupon, &s;ecretly (as it were) re&s;enting the de|parture of God from it, it falls upon a cour&s;e of hardening it &s;elfe, and by degrees contracts a boldne&s;&s;e, impudence, and de&s;perate|ne&s;&s;e in &s;inning; as a woman by &s;uffering a breach to be made upon her mode&s;tie or cha&s;titie once, often becomes facile and prone to that kinde of &s;inning afterwards; or el&s;e 2. by reflecting upon what it hath done in &s;uch a ca&s;e, and feeding night and day upon the &s;ad thoughts of its owne act, and ca&s;ting it up between God and it &s;elfe, how grievous a fin it is, to trample upon it's owne light, for any mans &s;ake, or upon any con&s;ideration what&s;oever, it brings it &s;elfe
<PB N="61" REF="31"> into grievous agonies of perplexitie, and horrour, out of which it ne|ver recovers afterward.</P>
<P>Thus I have given <HI>A. S.</HI> an account of my pre&s;ent thoughts, touching that <HI>coercitive power in matters of Religion,</HI> which he is &s;o im|portune to put into the Civill Magi&s;trates hand, with both his own; making it as &s;trange and uncouth a matter, as a <HI>new Independencie</HI> amounts unto <HI>(pag.</HI> 60.) that any man &s;hould not give the right hand of fellow&s;hip to his conceit herein. Which yet notwith&s;tand|ing I &s;hall be mo&s;t willing and ready to doe, if the man will but doe me the curte&s;ie, &s;olidly and theologue-like, by rea&s;on and not by vote, that is, unan&s;werably to an&s;wer the ten arguments propound|ed. For I profe&s;&s;e ingenuou&s;ly, there is nothing &s;eperates between me and his judgement in the point in hand, but onely tho&s;e ten rea|&s;ons, with their fellows; and if I were able to an&s;wer them my &s;elfe, I would abate the condition required to the bargaine, and purcha&s;e my agreement with him by mine own labour.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="3" TYPE="chapter">
<HEAD>Cap. 3. Concerning Presbyterie, or Cla&s;&s;ique Government of Churches, whe|ther it be founded upon the Scriptures, or what foundation it hath otherwi&s;e.</HEAD>
<P>IT is ea&s;ie to ob&s;erve (and yet well worth the ob&s;erving) how <HI>A. S.</HI> his hand trembleth and &s;haketh in drawing the line of the de&s;cent and pedigree of his Presbyteriall Government; he knows not well where to find the &s;ource, fir&s;t &s;pring, or originall of it. He is between the Scriptures on the one hand, and the Law of nature on the other, as the Poet de&s;cribes a fierce Tyger between two droves or herds of cattell.</P>
<Q>Ne&s;cit utr&ograve; potius ruat, &amp; ruere ardet utro&abque;.</Q>
<P>He knows not which he had be&s;t fall upon, but hath a great mind to fa&s;ten upon both. When he hath occa&s;ion to skirmi&s;h with the Apo|logi&s;ts upon this point, me thinks I &s;ee him traver&s;ing his ground, as if he trod upon hot irons; he treads daintily and tenderly, and &s;hifts his &s;teppings to and againe, of and on, as if he felt no ground under him, but that whereof he was jealous. And it &s;eems, that for the whole familie it &s;elfe of per&s;ons engaged in <HI>A. S.</HI> his judgement about Church-government, though they be but one, re&s;olutely e|nough
<PB N="62" REF="32"> agreed for the Government it &s;elfe; yet there are great divi|&s;ions of heart among&s;t them, concerning the parentage and de&s;cent of it. Some out of a de&s;ire to have it the more adored and reveren|ced in the world, will needs have it to be of the hou&s;e and lineage of <HI>Johns</HI> Bapti&s;me, <HI>viz.</HI> from heaven, from the Scriptures; Others of them, fearing that genealogie to be &s;o perplexed and intricate, that it is fitter to make &s;trife and que&s;tions of, then demon&s;tration and &s;a|tisfaction, thinke it better to wave that title, and claime, and to con|tent them&s;elves with a Meropean, in &s;tead of a Phoebean parentage for it; to ri&s;e no higher then the libertie or power of the Church it &s;elfe, to &s;eek its originall. Which cleft in the hou&s;e con&s;idered, it was a very prudent &s;poke put into the wheele of the Apologi&s;ts, by him that gave coun&s;ell (if all tales be true) at no hand to have it put to vote, whether Presbyteriall Government could be prooved from the Scriptures, or no. Such a vote as this might very po&s;&s;ibly have prov'd of as interruptory a con&s;equence to the builders of this Government, as the confu&s;ion of tongues &s;ometimes did to builders of another fabricke.</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="2" UNIT="Sect."> But <HI>A. S.</HI> is A per &s;e A, for ought that ever yet I could heare (&s;ave onely from his own pen) in making <HI>&s;ubordination, between &s;uperiour and inferiour Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Judicatories,</HI> i. (in plaine Engli&s;h) Presbyteriall Government, to be <HI>partim juris divini, partim naturalis aut mixti;</HI> part|ly of divine right, partly of naturall or mixt: which yet is his Deci|&s;ion, <HI>pag.</HI> 27. When he affirms <HI>pag.</HI> 36. that his Presbyteriall power <HI>needs not any patterne formally, and expre&s;ly from Chri&s;t, it &s;ufficeth that it hath one from nature;</HI> would not a man thinke that he waves the Scrip|tures in the Que&s;tion, as being compleatly furni&s;hed otherwi&s;e to make good his &s;tanding? And yet within a few lines after; he glo|ries too in the &s;uperfluous and over-abounding contributions of the Scriptures to him: <HI>And yet</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>we can &s;hew a patent for it, not onely from the Law of nature, which &s;hould &s;uffice, but al&s;o from the Law of Grace, in the old and new Te&s;tament.</HI> In other places, he &s;eems wholly to decline the Law of nature, as if men by their prudentialls or power in any kinde, had nothing to doe to in&s;titute or &s;et up any power in the Church, but by expre&s;&s;e order and warrant from God in the Scriptures. <HI>It is onely in God</HI> (&s;aith he, <HI>pag.</HI> 48.) <HI>who is a King in this &s;pirituall Kingdome, a Ma&s;ter in this hou&s;e, a Father in this familie, who can give power therein unto any man: we dare not be &s;o bold, &amp;c.</HI> And <HI>pag.</HI> 61. <HI>Veritie con&s;i&s;teth not in the middle of this or that, which yee imagine, but in a conformitie of our conceptions with their object, and due mea&s;ure, which in this</HI>
<PB N="63" REF="32"> <HI>matter is onely Gods word revealed in the Scriptures: and according to this rule I take Presbyterian Government rather,</HI> &amp;c. And yet one more, <HI>p.</HI> 34. <HI>Combined Presbyteries (qua tota, &s;ed non qua totaliter con&s;iderata,</HI> i. no man can tell how or which way) <HI>judge of points of doctrine and di&s;cipline al|ready revealed in the holy Scriptures, and give us new Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Laws of things indifferent, and &s;o teach and rule the Churches,</HI> &amp;c. Come <HI>A. S.</HI> let you and I conferre lovingly of the&s;e affaires before we part.</P>
<P N="1"><MILESTONE N="3" UNIT="Sect."> 1. I wonder much that having two Nations (at lea&s;t, if not more) in your own bowells, &s;uch materiall differences as have been touch|ed, in your Presbyterian Tribe, nay, that having line again&s;t line, page again&s;t page, leafe again&s;t leafe in your owne book, you &s;hould be no more compa&s;&s;ionate towards your Brethren the Apologi&s;ts, then to be brand them with differences among&s;t them&s;elves, as you doe more then once, and that with much bitterne&s;&s;e, <HI>pag.</HI> 69. and el&s;ewhere.</P>
<Q>Si vari&acirc;&s;&s;e vocas crimen; variavimus ambo.</Q>
<P N="2"><MILESTONE N="4" UNIT="Sect."> 2. The differences that are among&s;t the Apologi&s;ts and men of their judgement, about the way of their government, are nothing con&s;iderable in re&s;pect of yours. They differ but in their haire, and you in your heads. They differ among them&s;elves, but as one &s;tarre differeth from another, you differ between your &s;elves, as much as Heaven and Earth. They all as one man unanimou&s;ly affirm, that their way of Government is Canonicall, and of Divine a&s;&s;ertion; you are divided about the Authoritie of your way, &s;ome making it Canonicall, others Apocriphall, &s;ome fetching it from the &s;tarres, others, from the du&s;t.</P>
<Q>Hinc caput at&abque; illinc, humero ex utro&abque; pependit.</Q>
<P>By the way, the ingenuous di&s;&s;ent of that partie among&s;t you, who cannot &s;ay that they &s;ee any lineament of Heaven in the face of your Government, being yet well-willers, and friends of affecti|ons large enough unto it, is unto me as little le&s;&s;e then a demon&s;tra|tion as may be, that your way is but from men, and not from God. For as the &s;aying is, <HI>Quid non &s;entit amor?</HI> If there were any thing in the Scriptures, that did but look merrily, or ca&s;t a plau&s;ible glance upon your way, would not they that are &s;o intirely devoted both in their judgements and affections to it, find it out? yea and double
<PB N="64" REF="33"> and treble the &s;ympathy and &s;trength of it with their imaginati|ons? As it is the propertie of love, to <HI>cover a multitude of &s;ins</HI> or tre&s;|pa&s;&s;es, that are, <HI>(Prov.</HI> 10. 12.) &s;o is it a propertie likewi&s;e of the &s;ame affection, to di&s;cover a multitude of plea&s;ing accommodati|ons which are not.</P>
<P>Be&s;ides it is &s;omewhat more then a mote in the eye of your unitie, that <HI>in &s;ome Churches</HI> (of your Presbyteriall calculation) <HI>particular or Parochiall Senats or Con&s;i&s;tories have power to &s;u&s;pend from their communion, tho&s;e that be members thereof; yea al&s;o to excommunicate them, &amp;c.</HI> This is your own bounteous acknowledgement, <HI>p.</HI> 26. I thought that &s;uch a mi&s;demeanour as this in the State Presbyteriall, had been of Gla&s;|&s;ique vindication, at the lea&s;t.</P>
<P N="3"><MILESTONE N="5" UNIT="Sect."> 3. If Presbyterian Government, <HI>needeth no formall or expre&s;&s;e pat|terne from Chri&s;t,</HI> then either it hath none &s;uch from him, or this <HI>pat|tern</HI> where&s;oever it is found, is but a &s;uperfluitie or impertinencie of Scripture. But that there is nothing &s;uperfluous or impertinent in the Scriptures, is a glorie a&s;&s;erted unto them by the holy Gho&s;t him|&s;elf. 2 <HI>Tim.</HI> 3. 16. <HI>All Scripture is given by in&s;piration of God, and is profit|able, &amp;c.</HI> Therefore by <HI>A. S.</HI> his own confe&s;&s;ion, his Government hath <HI>no formall or expre&s;&s;e pattern from Chri&s;t.</HI> In one &s;ence it may be granted, that Presbyteriall Government <HI>needeth no formall,</HI> nor yet materiall, <HI>pattern</HI> from Chri&s;t, <HI>viz.</HI> in &s;uch a &s;ence, as it may truly be &s;aid that ca&s;tles in the ayre need no reparations. But,</P>
<P N="4"><MILESTONE N="6" UNIT="Sect."> 4. If your Government <HI>needs no formall or expre&s;&s;e pattern from Chri&s;t,</HI> we would gladly know, whether it needs any <HI>materiall</HI> or <HI>implicite</HI> pattern from him, or what it needs from him, whether &s;omething or nothing. But if you under&s;tood, or would plea&s;e but to con&s;ider the <HI>nece&s;&s;ities</HI> of it, I verily beleeve you would confe&s;&s;e, that it did &s;tand in need of <HI>that formall and expre&s;&s;e pattern</HI> from him, which you &s;peak of. You &s;ee that for want of &s;uch a <HI>pattern,</HI> it drives but heavi|ly, and is long in getting up into it's throne; It hath lo&s;t many a <NOTE PLACE="marg">Prov. 13. 12.</NOTE> merrie day alreadie; and yet daily meets with &s;uch conte&s;tations, oppo&s;itions, contradictions, from &s;ober, wi&s;e, learned and religious men, that it is not like to reigne but in the fire of contention, and with the &s;orrow and &s;adne&s;&s;e of many &s;uch hearts, as Chri&s;t would not have made &s;ad. And all this calamitie befals it for want of a <HI>formall and expre&s;&s;e pattern from Chri&s;t:</HI> And yet hath it no need hereof? Surely it is very magnanimous, and high-&s;pirited, to be able to bear all this heavie pre&s;&s;ure of mi&s;erie upon it, and yet profe&s;&s;e that it &s;tands in no need of that, which would ea&s;e it.</P>
<PB N="65" REF="33">
<P N="5"><MILESTONE N="7" UNIT="Sect."> 5. If <HI>it needs no formall or expre&s;&s;e pattern from Chri&s;t,</HI> we would wil|lingly be informed, what pattern it is, which (you boa&s;t) <HI>you can &s;hew from the Law of Grace for it in the Old and New Testament.</HI> We &s;uppo&s;e that it &s;tands in need of all that you <HI>can &s;hew for it,</HI> either from the <HI>Law of Nature,</HI> or of <HI>Grace,</HI> either <HI>from the Old Te&s;tament</HI> or from <HI>the New,</HI> and much more. You tell us, you <HI>can</HI> &s;hew pattern upon pat|tern, but &s;hew none. Surely you would be thought to do very nobly; <HI>Po&s;&s;e &amp; nolle, nobile.</HI> You do not &s;hew us, but onely tell us (p. 41.) that <HI>if we will, we may &s;ee it in the ordinarie practi&s;e of the Church of the Jews in the old Te&s;tament.</HI> It &s;eems that &s;ight you have of your Presbyteriall Government, either in this <HI>practi&s;e of the Jewi&s;h Church,</HI> or in any other pa&s;&s;age, or part of Scripture, depends upon your <HI>wils:</HI> you are <HI>wil|ling</HI> to &s;ee it, and therefore you &s;ee it. Otherwi&s;e, why &s;hould you tell us, that we may &s;ee it, <HI>if we will?</HI> you are happie men, who have your eyes dependant upon your <HI>wils,</HI> and &s;o can &s;ee what you plea&s;e, or have a mind to &s;ee: <HI>Nobis non licet e&s;&s;e tam di&s;ertis;</HI> our wils depend upon our eyes; we dare not will any thing, but what we fir&s;t <HI>&s;ee,</HI> to be the <HI>will</HI> and mind of God. It is no marvell, that you ca&s;t it as a &s;ore a&s;per&s;ion upon the Apologi&s;ts <HI>(p.</HI> 4.) that you &s;aw them <HI>no waies minded to &s;ubmit them&s;elves</HI> (in the&s;e matters of con&s;cience) <HI>to the de&s;ires of the Parliament.</HI> I verily beleeve, that did their <HI>judgements</HI> de|pend upon their <HI>wils,</HI> as it &s;eems yours do, they would have been as freely willing to have &s;ubmitted in all things, unto the de&s;ires of the Parliament, as you are. But,</P>
<P N="6"><MILESTONE N="8" UNIT="Sect."> 6. If our wils be weak, and thereby are hindred from &s;eeing that goodly vi&s;ion of Presbyterian Government in the <HI>practi&s;e of the Jewi&s;h Church,</HI> which you &s;ee, what do you contribute or affoard us to|wards the healing and &s;trengthening of them? Nay, do you not ra|ther occa&s;ion that which is weak in this kind, to be <HI>quite turned out of the way?</HI> For when you tell us (as you do p. 13.) 1. that <HI>the adaequate end of your Presbyteriall Government, is the externall peace of the Church:</HI> and 2. that the power thereof con&s;i&s;ts fir&s;t <HI>in the creation, &s;u&s;pention, and depo&s;ition of Church officers: &s;econdly, in determining matters of Doctrine:</HI> thirdly, <HI>in making Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Laws concerning things indifferent,</HI> &amp;c. (all which you tell us on a heap. <HI>p.</HI> 42.) you both make us very loath and unwilling to find your Government there, and withall verie confident, that there it is not to be found. For,</P>
<P><MILESTONE N="9" UNIT="Sect."> Fir&s;t, was <HI>the adequate end</HI> of the Government of that Church, the <HI>externall peace</HI> of the Church? Had it nothing in de&s;igne, for the &s;pi|rituall good, for the edification of the members of it in knowledge,
<PB N="66" REF="34"> faith, and holine&s;&s;e? was the power of the high Prie&s;t given him one|ly to keep the Church in externall peace? I thought that to provide for the <HI>externall peace of the Church,</HI> had rather appertained to the Ci|vill Magi&s;trate and Government, then to the Eccle&s;ia&s;tique; and it is the Apo&s;tle him&s;elf that thus thoughteth me, 1 <HI>Tim.</HI> 2. 2. where he injoyneth, that <HI>&s;upplications, prayers,</HI> &amp;c. be made <HI>for Kings and all that are in authoritie, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, in all godline&s;&s;e and hone&s;tie.</HI></P>
<P>Secondly, neither do I find in the practi&s;e of that Church, any power given to the combined rulers and governors thereof, for the creation, &s;u&s;pen&s;ion, depo&s;ition of Church-officers. I read of the de|po&s;ition of a Church-officer (and no mean one neither) by the Civill Magi&s;trate, 1 <HI>King.</HI> 2. 27. <HI>So Solomon ca&s;t out Abiathar from being Prie&s;t unto the Lord, &amp;c.</HI> but of any &s;uch depo&s;ition by the combined Ru|lers of that Church, I remember not that I have read. But,</P>
<P N="3"><MILESTONE N="10" UNIT="Sect."> 3. As for any power of <HI>Determining matters of Doctrine,</HI> this is fur|ther out of my ken in the <HI>practi&s;e of that Church,</HI> then any thing el&s;e. I know not well what <HI>A. S.</HI> means, by his phra&s;e of <HI>Determining mat|ters of Doctrine;</HI> but in my notion, and in the Grammaticall and pro|per &s;ence of the word, <HI>Determine,</HI> the claime of &s;uch a power ri&s;eth up as a high partition-wall between me and his Government. If by <HI>a power of Determining matters of Doctrine,</HI> he means nothing el&s;e but a libertie, or abilitie of di&s;cu&s;&s;ing and arguing &s;uch matters, and of recommending the i&s;&s;ues and re&s;ults of &s;uch di&s;cu&s;&s;ions, unto the Churches, as con&s;onant (in their judgements) to the truth, with a propo&s;all of their de&s;ires unto the Churches, to con&s;ider well of them, and to imbrace them, if they can &s;o judge and conceive of them, I have nothing to oppo&s;e again&s;t this power. But if by his <HI>power to Determine matters of Religion,</HI> he means a power of conclu|ding or defining, what men &s;hall be bound in con&s;cience to receive and beleeve for truth, and &s;hall be look'd upon as &s;inning, in ca&s;e they doe it not, whether they &s;ee &s;ufficient ground for what is &s;o concluded, and obtruded upon them, or not (which I partly be|leeve to be <HI>A. S.</HI> his &s;ence, I am &s;ure is the proper &s;ence of the word) &s;uch <HI>a power</HI> is (and I thinke ever will be) the fir&s;t-borne of the ab|horrings of my &s;oule. I confe&s;&s;e I cannot be over-confident that <HI>A. S.</HI> intends the re&s;idence of &s;uch a power as this, in his Presbyterian A&s;&s;emblies; partly, becau&s;e he &s;peakes &s;omewhat like a man in this behalfe el&s;ewhere, &s;uppo&s;ing it to be <HI>&s;afe even for a few men to di&s;&s;ent from all the world,</HI> in ca&s;e they have <HI>very &s;trong rea&s;ons for their di&s;&s;ent,</HI>
<PB N="67" REF="34"> pag. 22. and requires no &s;ubjection in <HI>particular Congregations, unto the judgement of Senates or A&s;&s;emblies, but according to Gods word,</HI> pag. 28. (I tru&s;t he means, &s;o apprehended by the Congregation; without this there is no &s;ubjection according to Gods word) and againe, <HI>p.</HI> 68. acknowledgeth it as an <HI>undoubted maxime, that the Church hath no ab&s;olute power in her judgements,</HI> &amp;c. with many &s;avourie expre&s;&s;ions in this kind; partly al&s;o, becau&s;e I find this indulgence generally &s;ub|&s;crib'd with Presbyterian pens, <HI>That the Authoritie which Cla&s;&s;es and</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Paget. Defence of Church-go|vernment, &amp;c. pag. 29.</NOTE> <HI>Synods exerci&s;e, is not ab&s;olute, nor their Decrees held to be infallible, but to be examined by the word of God, and not to be received further then they doe a|gree herewith.</HI> And yet on the other hand I confe&s;&s;e, that I cannot conceive, or comprehend how <HI>A. S.</HI> his Government can hold up her head like her&s;elfe, if this iron-mace be taken out of her hand. For my part, if this one Article of a libertie to wave Presbyteriall Injunctions and Deci&s;ions, in ca&s;e of a <HI>non-liquet</HI> from the word of God, to him to whom they are tendred, will be but a&s;&s;ented unto, and candidly kept and performed, it would be the be&s;t Mediatour I know to reconcile my thoughts and judgement to it.</P>
<P N="4"><MILESTONE N="11" UNIT="Sect."> 4. Nor can I in the practi&s;e of the Jewi&s;h Church, find either <HI>vola</HI> or <HI>ve&s;tigium,</HI> of a <HI>power</HI> granted unto the Rulers thereof, to make <HI>Ec|cle&s;ia&s;ticall Laws concerning things indifferent;</HI> I rather find a prohibiti|on &s;erv'd upon them from making any &s;uch Laws. <HI>Yee &s;hall put no|thing unto the word which I command you, nor &s;hall yee take ought there from,</HI> &amp;c. <HI>Deut.</HI> 4. 2. So againe, Chap. 12. 32. If <HI>A. S.</HI> can but produce one example of any &s;uch Law or Con&s;titution made by them, he &s;hall be a benefactour to the penurie of my notions; and in con&s;ideration thereof I will be&s;tow upon him a da&s;hing out of this piece of his charge.</P>
<P N="5"><MILESTONE N="12" UNIT="Sect."> 5. (And la&s;tly,) In the practi&s;e of the Jewi&s;h Church, the Prela|ticall Schoole &s;ees a vi&s;ion or platforme of her Government al&s;o. And <HI>A. S.</HI> by your leave, the High-Prie&s;t as well in his Authoritie, as in his robes and holy accoutrements, did farre more plau&s;ibly, &s;ympathize with Metropoliticall State and Greatne&s;&s;e, then with Presbyteriall. For my part, I am not able to di&s;cerne in all the pra|cti&s;e of the Jewi&s;h Church, from the one end of it unto the other, any piece, &s;treine, or veine, of &s;uch a <HI>patterne</HI> as <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;peaks of. Surely the vi&s;ion is &s;o condition'd, as not to be &s;eene but upon Pre&s;|byterian ground. The man did wi&s;ely in granting that he had <HI>no formall or expre&s;&s;e patterne</HI> for his Government, either <HI>from the old,</HI> or <HI>new Te&s;tament:</HI> but he &s;hould have done more ingenuou&s;ly to have ad|ded,
<PB N="68" REF="35"> <HI>no nor yet any materiall or implicit patterne neither.</HI> For if he hath any <HI>materiall patterne,</HI> it is &s;o purely <HI>materiall,</HI> that it may contend with <HI>materia prima</HI> it &s;elfe for the prize of invi&s;ibilitie. If he hath any <HI>implicit,</HI> it is wrapt up under &s;o many folds and pleights of ob&s;curi|tie, that no &s;eeing eye is able to pierce through to it.</P>
<P>But doe wee not give &s;entence too &s;oone? It may be his <HI>patterne from the new Te&s;tament</HI> will carry it, though that from the old refus'd to meddle with it. But where &s;hall we &s;eeke this? He tells us <HI>pag.</HI> 41. <HI>That we may &s;ee it in the hi&s;torie of the new Te&s;tament, in the judgement gi|ven out at the Synod</HI> (either truly or untruly &s;o called) <HI>of Hieru&s;alem concerning the bu&s;ine&s;&s;e of Antiochia.</HI> What po&s;&s;ibly <HI>we may &s;ee</HI> in length and time, is not ea&s;ie to determine for the pre&s;ent; But I have both more hope and feare of &s;eeing a thou&s;and other things (which yet I cannot certainly &s;ay, that I &s;hall &s;ee) then I have of either, ever to &s;ee Cla&s;&s;icall proceedings demon&s;trated out of that pa&s;&s;age of Scrip|ture. Nor doth <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;o much as put forth his little finger towards &s;uch a Demon&s;tration, but contents him&s;elfe (for the pre&s;ent) to threaten us with his own <HI>hope,</HI> of <HI>&s;eeing</HI> the bu&s;ine&s;s <HI>cleerly demon&s;trated to us by a better hand ere long. Cleere demon&s;trations</HI> of any thing from the Scriptures, &s;hall be very wellcome to us at any time; but me thinks I &s;ee &s;uch in&s;uperable difficulties in the way, that I feare that <HI>De|mon&s;tration</HI> will never come out cleere. Yet becau&s;e I would helpe forward the <HI>Cleerne&s;&s;e</HI> of it, what I can, I &s;hall make bold to propound unto him that either is, or &s;hall be, the undertaker thereof, a few par|ticulars, which (I humbly conceive) mu&s;t be &s;ub&s;tantially prov'd, to make the <HI>Demon&s;tration cleere,</HI> at lea&s;t to me, and many others.</P>
<P N="1">1. It mu&s;t be prov'd, that the Apo&s;tles, in that meeting at Hieru|&s;alem, <HI>Act.</HI> 15. 6. &s;ate there onely in the capacitie of ordinary Elders or Presbyters, and not as Apo&s;tles. <HI>i.</HI> that they wav'd or &s;ilenc'd the &s;pirit of infallibilitie which was given them, and fell to worke with the weake and fallible &s;pirits of other men. Which is, as if a man &s;hould pull out his eyes, to &s;ee with the holes.</P>
<P N="2">2. It mu&s;t further be prov'd, that this councell at Hieru&s;alem had their &s;tate and &s;et times of meeting, as weekly, monethly, yeerely, or the like, and that they did not a&s;&s;emble occa&s;ionally onely. For this is one of the high characters of Presbyterie, by <HI>A. S.</HI> his owne calculation. <HI>pag.</HI> 39.</P>
<P N="3">3. It mu&s;t yet be proov'd, that they had <HI>Authoritatem citationis,</HI> an authoritative power to cite &amp; call before them, whom they pleas'd, within the pale of Apo&s;tolicall Juri&s;diction, that is, within the com|pa&s;&s;e of the whole world.</P>
<PB N="69" REF="35">
<P N="4"> 4. It mu&s;t al&s;o be made cleere, that the Apo&s;tles and Elders that were members of this Synod, were &s;ent hereunto, by tho&s;e particu|lar Churches, over whom they had right to claime Juri&s;diction, or intended to include in their determinations.</P>
<P N="5">5. The <HI>Demon&s;tration</HI> will never be <HI>cleere,</HI> till it be &s;ub&s;tantially prov'd, that there was none authorized to fit in that Councell, but onely Church-Officers and Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall men; the contrary hereof &s;eeming (at lea&s;t) very apparant, from <HI>ver.</HI> 22. &amp; 23.</P>
<P N="6">6. That likewi&s;e mu&s;t not be left unprov'd, that this Councell had power, as well to make new Laws of indifferent things, as to impo&s;e things nece&s;&s;ary upon the Churches, <HI>ver.</HI> 28.</P>
<P N="7">7. The Demon&s;trator to make his worke <HI>cleere</HI> and clever, mu&s;t proove that the Churches of Syria and Cilicia, had their Commi&s;|&s;ioners or Delegates, &s;itting Authoritatively in this Synod, becau&s;e they are included in the Determination, <HI>ver.</HI> 23.</P>
<P N="8">8. It mu&s;t be prov'd likewi&s;e, that <HI>Paul</HI> and <HI>Barnabas</HI> &s;ate as Com|mi&s;&s;ioners upon the &s;ame terms for the Church of Antioch in this Synod.</P>
<P N="9">9. It mu&s;t be made to appeare, either that this Synod or Coun|cell, would have proceeded as now they did, whether they could have &s;aid, <HI>It &s;eemed good to the Holy Gho&s;t, and to us,</HI> or no, or that or|dinary Synods or A&s;&s;emblies may lawfully proceed as they did, though they have no &s;uch a&s;&s;urance of a concurrence of the Holy Gho&s;t with them, as they had.</P>
<P N="10">10. And la&s;tly, Proofe mu&s;t be made, that tho&s;e words in the clo&s;e of the Epi&s;tle (&s;ent from this Councell to the re&s;pective Chur|ches) <HI>yee &s;hall doe well,</HI> ver. 29. are fulminative, and import &s;ome &s;uch threatning or intimation as this, that if they did not &s;ubmit, &s;ome further cour&s;e mu&s;t be taken with them.</P>
<P>If all the&s;e particulars, &s;hall be &s;ub&s;tantially cleered and proved, I &s;hall freely acknowledge that there is a plau&s;ible <HI>patterne</HI> for <HI>A. S.</HI> his Government, in the new Te&s;tament, but <HI>Hic labor, hoc opus e&s;t.</HI> I &s;hall not pre-judge any mans abilities; but for the pre&s;ent, I doe as much expect the fulfilling of that Poeticall Prophecie,
<Q>&V;nda dabit flammas, &amp; dabit ignis aquas,</Q> as I doe ever to &s;ee that fifteenth of the <HI>Acts,</HI> &s;afely deliver'd of the man-child call'd <HI>Presbyterie.</HI></P>
<P>Therefore <HI>A. S.</HI> mu&s;t pardon us if as yet we be not able to &s;ee any
<PB N="70" REF="36"> patterne at all of his Government, neither <HI>formall,</HI> nor <HI>materiall,</HI> nei|ther <HI>explicit,</HI> nor <HI>implicit,</HI> either in the old or new Te&s;tament.</P>
<P>Well, but yet the man hath one &s;tring to his bowe more; though <HI>Grace</HI> will not relieve him, it may be <HI>nature</HI> will. He hath (as he &s;aith) <HI>a pattern in the Law of Nature, which will &s;uffice.</HI> They mu&s;t (I beleeve) have verie good appetites to Presbyterie, that will be &s;uffic'd with this pattern. The Law of nature is a very va&s;t volume, and <HI>A. S.</HI> hath not quoted either page, leaf, or &s;ection of the book, &s;o that I know not whither to turn, or where to look for his pattern. But me thinks the man him&s;elf hath given ample te&s;timonie to the <HI>Law of Nature,</HI> that it is no wayes guiltie of, or acce&s;&s;arie to his Presbyterian Government. For that which cannot be made out, to the judgements and con&s;ciences of men, without the help of &s;uch an ho&s;t of &s;chola|&s;tique, intricate, (if not inexplicable) di&s;tinctions, as <HI>A. S.</HI> is fain to leavie, and mu&s;ter together, <HI>p.</HI> 29. 30. 31. 32. &amp;c. before he can make either head or foot of his bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, what other originall or de&s;cent &s;oever it may claim, I know not, but (que&s;tionle&s;&s;e) <HI>the Law of Nature</HI> will not own. The Law of nature &s;aith with one of natures &s;ons; <HI>Odi difficiles nugas:</HI> &s;he meddles not with &s;ubtilties, niceties, or curio&s;ities of di&s;tinctions. A man that is unlearned, and but of ordinarie capa|citie, that &s;hall read the pages la&s;t quoted, may very po&s;&s;ibly take his odde and uncouth di&s;tinctions for names of unclean &s;pirits, and think that the man conjur's for his Government.</P>
<P>But will you plea&s;e to hear the names of his beagles, with which he follows his game, and hunts cla&s;&s;ique Law out of tho&s;e deep and dark caverns and tullians of the earth where Nature had hid it, <HI>&s;tigii&s;&abque; admoverat umbris.</HI> The fir&s;t couple, <HI>Actus primus, &s;enior,</HI> and <HI>Actus &s;ecundus, &s;enior.</HI> The &s;econd couple; <HI>Actus primus junior,</HI> and <HI>Actus &s;ecundus, junior.</HI> The third, <HI>Actus primus, tertius;</HI> and <HI>Actus &s;e|cundus, tertius.</HI> The fourth, <HI>Actus &s;ignatus, &s;enior, Actus exercitus, &s;enior.</HI> The fift, <HI>Actus &s;ignatus, junior;</HI> and <HI>Actus exercitus, junior.</HI> The &s;ixt, <HI>col|lectiv&egrave;</HI> and <HI>di&s;tributiv&egrave;.</HI> The &s;eventh, <HI>formally</HI> and <HI>materially.</HI> The eight, <HI>Totum &s;impliciter,</HI> and <HI>totum &amp; totaliter.</HI> The ninth, <HI>Omne &s;impliciter pro omne</HI> and <HI>pro omni &amp; omnino vel omnimodo.</HI> The tenth, <HI>Totum, tota|liter,</HI> and <HI>totum modificatum.</HI> The eleventh, <HI>Divi&s;im &amp; conjunctim.</HI> The twelfth, <HI>per &s;e,</HI> and <HI>per accidens:</HI> The thirteenth and la&s;t, <HI>Totum con|fu&s;um,</HI> and <HI>totum ordinatum.</HI> Can any rea&s;onable man imagine, that that conclu&s;ion or practi&s;e, which cannot be ju&s;tified or cleared to the under&s;tanding and con&s;cience of learned, pregnant and appre|hen&s;ive men (for the&s;e are no lettuces for illiterate lips) but by the
<PB N="71" REF="36"> contributions and engagements of all the&s;e di&s;tinctions (&amp; &s;ome o|thers not li&s;ted) &s;hould be &s;ufficiently conteined in the <HI>Law of nature?</HI> The <HI>Law of nature</HI> is a book for every mans reading and under&s;tand|ing; but this volume of di&s;tinctions is &s;carce for any mans. If <HI>A. S.</HI> and his partie would but &s;pare the vulgar and common &s;ort of men (as there is neither rea&s;on, nor Religion but why they &s;hould) from putting their necks under the yoke of Cla&s;&s;ique Government, untill they can plough with the&s;e heifers, I mean till he or they have made them capable of all the&s;e di&s;tinctions, for my part I &s;hould not fear much danger or inconvenience from it, except it were the intercept|ing or &s;u&s;pending of &s;uch a Government, as might be a benefit and ble&s;&s;ing to them, while&s;t they are in preparing for the other.</P>
<P>In the mean time we clearly &s;ee that all <HI>A. S.</HI> his foundations for his Presbyteriall building, fail him: neither the <HI>old Te&s;tament,</HI> nor the <HI>New,</HI> nor yet the <HI>Law of nature,</HI> will con&s;ent to bear or to &s;upport any &s;uch fabrique. Nor is all that hath been here &s;aid by way of conte&s;t with him about his Government, any whit more then a fir&s;t fruits of what is further oppo&s;eable to it.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="4" TYPE="chapter">
<HEAD>Cap. 4. <HI>Concerning the form of Church Government maintained by the Apo|logi&s;ts, commonly called</HI> (nomine ad invidiam comparato) <HI>by the nick-name of Independancie; by them&s;elves</HI> Congregationall: <HI>and whether</HI> A. S. <HI>his exceptions again&s;t it, be materiall, or of that moment that it &s;hould give place to it's Competitor.</HI></HEAD>
<P>FOr the ju&s;tification of this Government, in a cataskeua&s;tique or a&s;&s;ertive way, I &s;hall plead nothing further (for the pre&s;ent) then what the Presbyterian School it &s;elf grants, conceiving that to be a ground impregnable, e&s;pecially <HI>quoad homines,</HI> to found the law|fulne&s;&s;e of it upon. I &s;hall rather addre&s;&s;e to my Antagoni&s;t <HI>A S.</HI> and trie whether he be any whit more dextrous at pulling down, then we lately found him at building up; it may be he is better at hiding, then at finding.</P>
<P>But fir&s;t, towards the building up of the Congregational Govern|ment, <NOTE PLACE="marg">See Ma&s;ter <HI>Charles Her<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">e</HI> Independency, &amp;c. p. 2.</NOTE> this corner &s;tone is given us by our Adver&s;aries, that <HI>where there is no neighbourhood of congregations, or &s;ingle Churches, whereby they may with conveniencie be aiding each to other, there a &s;ingle congregation mu&s;t not be denied entirene&s;&s;e of juri&s;diction.</HI></P>
<P>If we cannot upon this advantage of ground, make good this go|vernment
<PB N="72" REF="37"> again&s;t all oppo&s;ition, it is very ill be&s;towed on us, and we de&s;erve to be puni&s;hed with that, which lifts up it &s;elf again&s;t it. But,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, if <HI>entirene&s;&s;e</HI> of Government or <HI>juri&s;diction</HI> be not to be <HI>denied to a &s;ingle congregation</HI> when it is &s;olitarie and without neighbours, then certainly it hath a lawfull right, title, or claime to &s;uch a Ju|ri&s;diction. For what&s;oever doth not in a way of equitie or right belong unto any man, ought to be denied unto him. If then a &s;ingle Church in this ca&s;e, hath a right to an entirene&s;&s;e of rule and go|vernment within it &s;elf, I would gladly know, by what right any o|ther Church, or churches be they never &s;o many, can take away this right or priviledge from it. <HI>Tho&s;e whom God hath put together</HI> (&s;aith our Saviour in the ca&s;e of marriage) <HI>let not man put a&s;under.</HI> Doubt|le&s;&s;e if a &s;ingle Church, under the circum&s;tance mentioned, hath a <HI>right to an entirene&s;&s;e of Juri&s;diction within it &s;elf,</HI> it hath this right con|ferred upon it by God, or Chri&s;t him&s;elf, there being no other foun|tain or foundation thereof imaginable. And if &s;o, then who ever &s;hall take away, or deny this right of Juri&s;diction unto it, mu&s;t &s;hew a commi&s;&s;ion from heaven to do it, or otherwi&s;e be guiltie of <HI>putting tho&s;e a&s;under, which God hath joyned together.</HI></P>
<P>Secondly, if a Church yet &s;ingle, be inve&s;ted with a power of Ju|ri&s;diction within it &s;elf, and &s;hould be ca&s;hiered of this power, by the ri&s;ing up of more Churches neer unto her, then that which is in|tended by God as a table, &s;hould become a &s;nare unto her; &s;he &s;hould &s;uffer lo&s;&s;e, and have &s;orrow from tho&s;e, by whom &s;he ought to be comforted.</P>
<P>Thirdly, If a &s;ingle Church &s;hould &s;uffer lo&s;&s;e of &s;o con&s;iderable a priviledge, as entirene&s;&s;e of Juri&s;diction is, by the multiplication of Churches neer unto her, then cannot this Church pray for the propagation of the Go&s;pel in places neer to it, but &s;he mu&s;t pray again&s;t her own comfort and peace; which is a &s;ore temptation up|on her, either to pray very faintly, or not to pray at all, for &s;uch a thing.</P>
<P>If it be objected and &s;aid, that entirene&s;&s;e of Juri&s;diction is no be|nefit or priviledge to a &s;ingle Church, but rather an inconvenience, or a diminutive priviledge at be&s;t, and that her condition &s;hall be improv'd, not impaired, by combining her &s;elf in point of govern|ment with other Churches: I an&s;wer,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, that the Scripture it &s;elf makes intirene&s;&s;e of government, or &s;ubjection onely unto tho&s;e that are of the &s;ame &s;ocietie or body, a&s;peciall mercie, favour, and ble&s;&s;ing from God. <HI>And their Nobles</HI>
<PB N="73" REF="37"> <HI>&s;hall be of them&s;elves</HI> (&s;aith God, &s;peaking of that great goodne&s;&s;e he meant to &s;hew unto his people after their return from Babylon) <HI>and their Governour &s;hall proceed from the mid&s;t of them,</HI> &amp;c. Jer. 30. 21. So it is made a character or &s;igne of the pro&s;perous e&s;tate of Tyre, <HI>that her wi&s;e men that were in her,</HI> (i. of her own Nation) <HI>were her pilots.</HI> Ezek. 27. 8.</P>
<P>Secondly, &s;ubjection unto &s;trangers, is &s;till &s;poken of as matter of puni&s;hment and &s;orrow. <HI>Give not thine heritage to reproach, that the hea|then &s;hould reigne over it.</HI> Joel 2. 17. The nation of the Jews were ex|pre&s;ly forbidden to <HI>&s;et &s;trangers to rule over them.</HI> Deut. 17. 15.</P>
<P>If it be objected; but Pa&s;tors or Elders of neighbour Churches ought not to be looked upon as &s;trangers, but as Brethren. I an&s;wer (in a word) though they be brethren in compari&s;on of the unbe|leeving partie of the world, and in re&s;pect of their &s;pirituall de&s;cent from the &s;ame Father with them; yet have they more of the relation and con&s;ideration of &s;trangers to them, then tho&s;e that are (as it were) of the &s;ame dome&s;tique &s;ocietie with them. And therefore &s;ub|jection to them, mu&s;t needs have le&s;&s;e of the ble&s;&s;ing, and more of the cur&s;e in it, then &s;ubjection to their own.</P>
<P>Thirdly, the grants of Government and rule within them&s;elves unto Towns and Corporations, were ever e&s;teemed matters of &s;pe|ciall grace and favour from Princes: and have &s;ometimes been pur|cha&s;ed with great &s;ummes by the inhabitants.</P>
<P>Fourthly and la&s;tly, rea&s;on it &s;elf demon&s;trates intirene&s;&s;e of Go|vernment, to be a &s;weet priviledge &amp; benefit to a particular Church. Fir&s;t, in ca&s;e a man be que&s;tioned, he &s;aves a proportion both of time, and labour of travaile in re&s;pect of what he mu&s;t undergo, if he were to make his An&s;wer at a Con&s;i&s;torie further of. Secondly, proceedings again&s;t him in his own &s;ocietie, &s;hall be regulated, ma|naged and ordered, by his own Pa&s;tor, who is a Father unto him in the Lord, and who in all rea&s;on, and according to the cour&s;e of (almo&s;t) all con&s;tant experience, is more tender, affectionate, and compa&s;&s;ionate towards him, then the Pa&s;tors of other &s;tocks, and tho&s;e that are &s;trangers to him. The <HI>Pharaoh</HI> that knew <HI>Jo&s;eph,</HI> dealt well by him, his kindred, and &s;eed: but (&s;aith the text) <HI>there aro&s;e another Pharaoh that knew not Jo&s;eph, and he evill intreated our Fathers,</HI> &amp;c. Thirdly, he &s;hall be tried, and &s;entenced by tho&s;e, who know not how &s;oon it may be their own ca&s;e to be tried &amp; &s;entenced by him again; which in rea&s;on cannot but teach them moderation and equitie, in what&s;oever they &s;hall act or &s;ugge&s;t again&s;t him; where|as,
<PB N="74" REF="38"> a Con&s;i&s;torie of &s;tanding Judges, who&s;e <HI>fair necks</HI> have little or no cau&s;e to fear any <HI>yoke</HI> of being judged them&s;elves, are in farre more danger through a confident and con&s;tant u&s;e of the Scepter, of having their hand hardened, and their little finger &s;oon made as heavie as their loins. It is a good rule which <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf prompt|eth us withall in this ca&s;e, p. 10. <HI>Nunquam &s;atis fida potentia, ubi nimia e&s;t;</HI> power &s;eldome yeelds any good fruit, where it is too rank and luxuriant. Fourthly, it is a great incouragement and confirmation of face, to a man that is accu&s;ed, and is call'd to an&s;wer for him&s;elf, e&s;pecially if he be any thing tender-foreheaded and ba&s;hfull, as many of inferiour breed and education are, to an&s;wer before tho&s;e, who&s;e faces are familiar to him, and with who&s;e per&s;ons he is well acquainted; and the contrary is a kind of oppre&s;&s;ion to &s;uch a man. Such an advantage or di&s;advantage as this, may ea&s;ily amount to as much, as either a mans &s;tanding, or falling in his cau&s;e. A Con|&s;i&s;tory of &s;trange faces, e&s;pecially the per&s;ons being all of &s;uperiour rank and qualitie to him, may be to a plain man, of as bad a con|&s;equence, as the &s;eeing of <HI>Medu&s;as</HI> head was (among the Poets) it may turn him into a &s;tone, and make him able to &s;ay little for him|&s;elf; whereas if he be to make his an&s;wer at home, the knowledge and intere&s;t he hath, of and in tho&s;e per&s;ons before whom he is to &s;peak, will be a &s;overaigne antidote unto him again&s;t &s;uch fears, as otherwi&s;e might betray him in his cau&s;e. Fiftly, in this Govern|ment we &s;peak of, by the Congregation, private Chri&s;tians have the opportunitie of &s;eeing and hearing from time to time, all the carriages, debates, and judiciarie proceedings in the Church, which will be not onely matter of much &s;atisfaction, but al&s;o as a &s;chool of wi&s;dom and experience unto them daily; whereas, if the&s;e tran&s;|actions be negotiated at a remote Con&s;i&s;torie, the private Chri&s;tian lo&s;eth his portion and intere&s;t in them. Sixtly (and la&s;tly) Con|clu&s;ions many times are verie offen&s;ive and hard to be dige&s;ted, for want of the knowledge of the premi&s;&s;es, that &s;hould allay and &s;weeten them. Cla&s;&s;ique determinations and awards, e&s;pecially when they ri&s;e high, the rea&s;ons and grounds of them being (for the mo&s;t part) unknown to the generalitie of men, are of hard con&s;tru|ction with them: whereas the i&s;&s;ues and awards that are brought forth in a Congregation, the whole &s;eries and &s;torie of all proceed|ings <HI>&agrave; capite ad calcem,</HI> being known unto all, mu&s;t needs be much more &s;atisfactory, and of a farre better re&s;entment with men. The&s;e rea&s;ons might have been inlarged with much more &s;trength and
<PB N="75" REF="38"> weight, and many others likewi&s;e added to them; but for the pre|&s;ent, de&s;irous we are that brevitie &s;hould have the ca&s;ting voice.</P>
<P>Who then can lay any thing to the charge of this Government? That can I (quoth <HI>A. S.</HI> in effect. <HI>p.</HI> 38. 39. &amp;c.) I have &s;ixteen rea&s;ons or objections again&s;t it. Yea but <HI>A. S.</HI> your &s;ixteen Rea&s;ons (or at lea&s;t the greate&s;t part of them, as farr as I can &s;ee) have all but one head; and if that be &s;truck off, all tho&s;e rea&s;ons are but as &s;o many <HI>dead corp&s;es.</HI> You alledge again&s;t the Apologi&s;ts, that the <HI>remedie,</HI> in their way of Government, for the reducing of whole Congregations or Churches, in ca&s;e they mi&s;carrie or be irregular, <HI>is not &s;ufficient, nor &s;atisfactory.</HI> This you prove by laying pen upon paper, untill you had &s;ixteen rea&s;ons (&s;o called) in black and white. I &s;hall not &s;pend time in tran&s;cribing the&s;e your Rea&s;ons, but &s;hall de&s;ire the Reader (though it may be &s;ome di&s;courte&s;ie unto you) to take your book into his hand, and to con&s;ider of them with what is repond in An|&s;wer to them.</P>
<P>And fir&s;t, for that defectivene&s;&s;e you charge upon the Congrega|tionall Government, for the reduction of whole Churches, under er|rours, mi&s;carriages, &amp;c. I an&s;wer.</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, Suppo&s;e that cour&s;e or means which the Apologi&s;ts in&s;i&s;t upon, <HI>a with-drawing, and renouncing all Chri&s;tian communion with &s;uch Churches, untill they repent,</HI> be not in the eye of rea&s;on or humane con|jecture a means <HI>&s;ufficient</HI> for &s;uch a purpo&s;e, and that not onely &s;ix|teen but &s;ix and twentie rea&s;ons, and tho&s;e more plau&s;ible then <HI>A. S.</HI> his &s;ixteen, could be leavied again&s;t it, yet if it be a means which God hath authorized for the effecting it (as I verily beleeve it is, neither doth <HI>A. S.</HI> nor any of his, that yet I have met with, prove the contrarie) it will do the deed, and pro&s;per, when as &s;even other means that are greater of fle&s;h and more promi&s;ing, will but beat the aire, and do little of what was intended and projected to have been done by them. How many rea&s;ons may we probably conceive, that the <HI>di&s;puters of this world</HI> in <HI>Paul's</HI> time, were able to bandie again&s;t preaching, whereby to prove it fooli&s;hne&s;&s;e? yet this was, and &s;till is, and ever will be, maugre all the oppo&s;ition of ten thou|&s;and di&s;putations and rea&s;ons again&s;t it, <HI>the wi&s;dom of God, and the power of God, to &s;ave tho&s;e that beleeve.</HI> The &s;trength and power of &s;a|cred Ordinances, do not lie in their natures, but in their relations or in&s;titutions. Now that a <HI>withdrawing of Chri&s;tian communion</HI> from per&s;ons walking inordinately, is an ordinance, or means appoint|ed by God, for the reducing and reclaiming of them, is evident,
<PB N="76" REF="39"> 2 <HI>The&s;.</HI> 3. 6. with the 14. <HI>We warn you Brethren in the Name of our Lord Je&s;us Chri&s;t, that ye withdraw your &s;elves from every brother that walketh in|ordinately,</HI> &amp;c. and ver&s;. 14. <HI>If any man obey not this our &s;aying in this let|ter, note him, and have no company with him, that he may be a&s;hamed.</HI> Clear|ly implying, that to with-draw communion, and to deny Chri&s;tian fellow&s;hip unto Chri&s;tians walking inordinately, is both a means of Divine in&s;titution, and otherwi&s;e proper and commodious in it &s;elf, to reclaime and bring them to Repentance. There is the &s;ame rea&s;on of Churches in this behalf, which there is of per&s;ons; Chur|ches being nothing el&s;e but per&s;ons embodied.</P>
<P>Secondly, &s;uppo&s;e there were no &s;uch <HI>&s;ufficient or &s;atisfactory remedy</HI> for the inconvenience mentioned in the way of the Apologi&s;ts, as <HI>A. S.</HI> conceives to be in his (which yet there is, as hath in part al|readie, and will afterwards, further appeare) yet Lawyers have a &s;aying, that <HI>a mi&s;chief is better, then an inconvenience.</HI> A man had better run the hazard of a greater lo&s;&s;e, then expo&s;e him&s;elf to a daily wa&s;ting and con&s;uming of his e&s;tate. A man had better be wet through and through with a &s;oaking &s;howre once a yeer, then be expo&s;ed in his hou&s;e to <HI>continuall droppings</HI> all the yeer long. The Delinquencie of whole Churches, (&s;uch I mean as is matter of pub|lique &s;candall or offence to their neighbour Churches) is not an every dayes ca&s;e, no more in the way of <HI>congregationall,</HI> then of <HI>Pre&s;|byteriall</HI> Government: you acknowledge the raritie of it in your Go|vernment, and we affirm it in ours. Now then much better it is, to want a remedie again&s;t &s;uch an evill, which po&s;&s;ibly may not fall out within an age, though it be greater when it doth fall, then it is to expo&s;e our &s;elves <HI>to continuall droppings,</HI> I mean to tho&s;e daily in|conveniences which we lately &s;hewed to be incident to the Cla&s;&s;ique Government.</P>
<P>Thirdly, they that implead the Congregationall way, for being defective, as touching the matter in hand, &s;eeme to &s;uppo&s;e, that God hath put a &s;ufficiencie of power into the hands of men, to reme|die all defects, errours, and mi&s;carriages of men what&s;oever. El&s;e why &s;hould it be made matter of &s;o deep a charge and challenge again&s;t the way of the Apologi&s;ts, that it affords not a <HI>&s;ufficient and &s;atisfactorie remedie</HI> either to prevent or heal all po&s;&s;ible mi&s;carriages in all Churches? I would willingly know, in ca&s;e your <HI>Church tran&s;|cendent,</HI> your &s;upreame Se&s;&s;ion of Presbyters, &s;hould mi&s;carrie, and in your Doctrinall determinations, give us <HI>hay, &s;tubble, and wood,</HI> in|&s;tead of <HI>&s;ilver, gold,</HI> and <HI>precious &s;tones</HI> (a mi&s;pri&s;ion, you know, well
<PB N="77" REF="39"> neer as incident, to &s;uch A&s;&s;emblies, yea and to tho&s;e that are more generall and oecumenicall then &s;o, as ob&s;tinacie in errour is to par|ticular congregations) what remedie the poore Saints and Chur|ches of God under you have, or can expect again&s;t &s;uch a mi&s;chief; or what remedie you now have in the way of your Government, for the recovering of your &s;elves out of &s;uch a &s;nare, more then what the congregationall way affordeth, for the reclaiming of par|ticular Churches. Nay the truth is, your Government in &s;uch a ca&s;e is at a greater lo&s;&s;e in re&s;pect of any probable or hopefull remedie again&s;t &s;uch an evill (which yet is an evill of a mo&s;t dangerous con|&s;equence) then the other way of Government is for the reduction of particular Churches. That hath the <HI>remedie</HI> of God (as hath been &s;hewed), though not the <HI>remedie</HI> of men, and yet that <HI>remedie</HI> of God which it hath, is appliable by men, and tho&s;e known who they are, <HI>viz.</HI> the Churches of Chri&s;t neer adjoyning; but if your great Eccle&s;ia&s;tique bodie be tainted or infected though never &s;o <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Corpora mor|bis majora patent.</HI> Sen.</NOTE> dangerou&s;ly, God mu&s;t have <HI>mercie on you,</HI> and that in a way &s;ome|what (at lea&s;t) more then ordinarie, if ever you be healed. For that <HI>Directive power in matters of Religion,</HI> which, had you left it in other mens hands, might in this ca&s;e, through the ble&s;&s;ing of God, have healed you, being now onely in your own, hath not onely oc|ca&s;ioned that evill di&s;ea&s;e that is upon you, but al&s;o leaves you helple&s;&s;e and curele&s;&s;e by other men. <HI>A. S.</HI> makes the greate&s;t part of his arguments again&s;t that way of Government which he oppo|&s;eth, of <HI>what iffs,</HI> I mean of loo&s;e and impertinent &s;uppo&s;itions, and ca&s;es, that are not like to fall out, till <HI>ur&s;a major</HI> and <HI>ur&s;a minor</HI> meet (unto which kind of arguments every whit as much as enough hath been an&s;wered alreadie) but he &s;hall &s;hew him&s;elf a &s;overaigne Be|nefactour indeed to the Presbyterian cau&s;e, if he can find out <HI>a reme|die &s;atisfactorie and &s;ufficient</HI> again&s;t that &s;ore evill we &s;peak of inci|dent to his Government in the ca&s;e mentioned: which is a ca&s;e both of a farre wor&s;e con&s;equence then the ob&s;tinacie of a particular Church in &s;ome errour; and (I fear) of a far more frequent occur|rence, then the world is willing to take notice of.</P>
<P>Fourthly, let us ponder a little, how <HI>&s;ufficient and &s;atisfactorie</HI> that <HI>remedie</HI> again&s;t the evill now in con&s;ideration, is, which the Cla&s;&s;ique politie, under the protection of <HI>A. S.</HI> his pen, &s;o much glorieth in; let us compare the two remedies, of the two corriving polities toge|ther, as <HI>A. S.</HI> hath done, after his manner.</P>
<P><HI>But the Presbyteriall Government</HI> (&s;aith he, p. 39.) <HI>is &s;ubject to none of</HI>
<PB N="78" REF="40"> <HI>the&s;e inconveniences: For the collective or combined elder&s;hip having an Au|thoritative power, all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Cove|nant to &s;ubmit them&s;elves thereunto: Every man knoweth their &s;et times of meeting, wherein &s;undrie matters are di&s;patched, and all things carried by pluralitie of voices, without any &s;chi&s;me or &s;eperation.</HI> Not to be trouble|&s;ome to the man about his Grammaticals, (wherein his pen &s;lips oftner then <HI>Pri&s;cian</HI> will <HI>tolerate</HI> in &s;uch a piece) becau&s;e in the&s;e he oppo&s;eth nothing but a mans conceit either of overmuch &s;cholar|&s;hip or overmuch care, in him.</P>
<P>Here is a <HI>remedie</HI> indeed again&s;t &s;ome inconveniences; but whe|ther the inconveniences be not much better then the remedie, <HI>adhuc &s;ub Judice lis e&s;t.</HI> But what are the inconveniences?</P>
<P>The fir&s;t is, <HI>that Churches being equall in authoritie, one cannot binde another to give any account, in ca&s;e of offence given.</HI> Well, what is the re|medie for this in Cla&s;&s;ique con&s;titution? <HI>The combined Elder&s;hip having an authoritative power, all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to &s;ubmit them&s;elves,</HI> &amp;c. What is another inconvenience? <HI>In ca&s;e other Churches were offended in the proceedings of a particular Church, they could not judge in it; for then they &s;hould be both judge and partie in one cau&s;e, &amp;c.</HI> Well, what is the remedie in Presbyterian politie? <HI>The combined Elder&s;hip having an authoritative power, all men and Churches, &amp;c.</HI> What is a third inconvenience? <HI>That Congregationall Government giveth no more power or authoritie to a thou&s;and Churches over one, then to a Tinker, yea to the Hangman over a thou&s;and, &amp;c.</HI> What is the Presbyte|rian remedie for this? <HI>The combined Elder&s;hip having an Authoritative power, &amp;c.</HI> The <HI>combined Elder&s;hip</HI> with their <HI>Authoritative power</HI> toge|ther <HI>with a Law or Covenant whereby all men and Churches under them, are bound to &s;ubmit unto them,</HI> are as bars of iron and gates of bra&s;&s;e to keep out all tho&s;e inconveniences, irregularities, defilements, pollu|tions, out of the Presbyterian Temple, whereunto (it &s;eems) the Congregationall temple, for want of &s;uch &s;toure and tight provi&s;i|ons, lies open. But,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, what if your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip</HI> hath neither footing nor foundation in the Word of God? It is not the &s;erviceablene&s;&s;e of it again&s;t a thou&s;and &s;uch inconveniences as were mentioned, that will ju&s;tifie it. <HI>Sauls</HI> offering &s;acrifice was a means to prevent the <HI>&s;cattering of the people</HI> from him; yet <HI>Samuel</HI> told him that <HI>he had done fooli&s;hly in it;</HI> and it co&s;t him his Kingdom. 1 <HI>Sam.</HI> 13. 9. 13. 14. So the putting forth of <HI>Vzzah's</HI> hand to &s;tay the Ark, was a means to keep it from being &s;haken; but yet the doing of it co&s;t him his life. <HI>Peters</HI>
<PB N="79" REF="40"> valour and zeal in drawing his &s;word, and laying about him, was a likely means of re&s;cuing his Ma&s;ter; but the Lord Chri&s;t preferred the imminent danger of his life before &s;uch a re&s;cue, and check'd the &s;word that was drawn for him again into the &s;heath. That Law and con&s;titution in the Papacie, whereby <HI>all men, and all Churches thereof,</HI> are bound to &s;ubmit their judgements in matters of Faith to the deci&s;ion of the Papall Chair, is as &s;overaigne a <HI>remedie</HI> again&s;t all tho&s;e inconveniences named, as that for which Cla&s;&s;ique Autho|ritie is &s;o much magnified by you; and yet it is never the le&s;&s;e abho|minable in the eyes both of God and men. The Que&s;tion is not, which Government will &s;erve mo&s;t turns; but which is mo&s;t agree|able to the will and Word of God. If that of Presbyterie be defe|ctive this way, as there is extreame cau&s;e to fear it is, this defect cannot be recompenced or redeemed by any other commendation what&s;oever.</P>
<P>Secondly, neither can we with any tolerable &s;atisfaction inform our &s;elves out of all your di&s;cour&s;e, either what you mean by that <HI>Authoritative power,</HI> which you claime to your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip,</HI> nor yet how, or by what, or who&s;e Authoritie, they come to be inve&s;ted with it. As for the power, &s;ometimes you deny it to be <HI>magisteriall,</HI> or &s;uch, which may not lawfully be declin'd, when a man cannot &s;ubmit unto it without di&s;obedience to God; otherwi&s;e, you make it &s;o irrefrageably &s;acred, as if it were no le&s;&s;er &s;in then perjurie it &s;elf, to detract it. Again, for the inve&s;titure of your Elder&s;hip with this power, whether they arrogate it unto them&s;elves and are their own earvers, or whether the Civill State and Parliamentarie Law, or whether the free and joynt con&s;ent of tho&s;e over whom this power is exerci&s;ed, do conferre and derive it upon them, you inform us not, but count an <HI>ignoramus,</HI> better then a verdict. But till you do re&s;olve us by what Authoritie or power this <HI>Authoritative power</HI> comes into the hand of your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip,</HI> we &s;hall think it &s;afer to &s;tand to the hazard and damage of all the <HI>inconveniences</HI> &s;poken of, then to &s;ubject to it.</P>
<P>Thirdly, if the Law of the State, be the fir&s;t and mo&s;t con&s;iderable band or tye upon men to &s;ubmit unto the power of your <HI>combined elder&s;hip</HI> (as you &s;eem here to imply, in &s;aying <HI>that all men and all Churches thereof are bound by Law, &amp;c.)</HI> then 1. you mu&s;t acknow|ledge that the root and ba&s;e of your Government is <HI>pote&s;tas &s;ecularis,</HI> &s;ecular authoritie; and then how is it Eccle&s;ia&s;tique or &s;pirituall? A man may as well <HI>bring a clean thing out of an unclean</HI> (in <HI>Jobs</HI> expre&s;|&s;ion)
<PB N="80" REF="41"> as make a &s;pirituall extraction out of a &s;ecular root. Secondly, it will re&s;t upon you to prove, that the Civill State hath a power to form and fa&s;hion the Government of the Churches of Chri&s;t. Yea, thirdly (and la&s;tly) it will be demon&s;tratively prov'd again&s;t you, that you re&s;olve the Government of the Churches of Chri&s;t (in the la&s;t re&s;olution of it) into the humours, wils, and plea&s;ures of the world, yea of the vile&s;t and mo&s;t unworthie of men. But,</P>
<P>Fourthly (and la&s;tly) the <HI>Authoritative power of your combined El|der&s;hip</HI> being granted unto you, we do not &s;ee how the inconveni|ences you find in the Congregationall way, will be much better &s;alv'd in yours. For fir&s;t, what if a particular Congregation under the juri&s;diction of your Elder&s;hip, reflecting upon the Oath or Co|venant it hath taken for &s;ubjection thereunto, (as likewi&s;e upon all other ingagements that way) as unlawfull, &s;hall peremptorily re|fu&s;e to &s;tand to the awards or determinations of it, what will you do in this ca&s;e? How will your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip remedie</HI> this incon|venience? What? will you excommunicate this Church? The Apo|logi&s;ts in their way do little le&s;&s;e; (and that by a power farre le&s;&s;e que&s;tionable then yours) nay in your interpretation, they do everie whit as much? Or will you deliver them over <HI>Brachio &s;eculari?</HI> to be hamper'd and taught better, then it &s;eems you can teach them, by pri&s;ons, fines, bani&s;hment, &amp;c. O <HI>A. S.</HI> remember you tax'd the Apo|logi&s;ts, for comporting in a very &s;mall matter (in compari&s;on) with the Arminians (in ca&s;e it had been true) and will you comply with the Papi&s;ts in a matter of this high nature? Churches had need take heed how they chu&s;e men for their guardians, that will &s;o di&s;po&s;e of them, if they plea&s;e them not. Be&s;ides, you know what was &s;aid in the &s;econd Chapter, touching the power of the Magi&s;trate in this ca&s;e. And what if in the Se&s;&s;ion of your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip</HI> there be no &s;uch thing as pluralitie of votes concerning the excommuni|cation of &s;uch a Church, (as it is very po&s;&s;ible that in &s;uch a meet|ing the truth may find ju&s;t as many friends as errour hath, and no more) is not the <HI>remedie</HI> you &s;pake of now in the du&s;t?</P>
<P>Again, &s;econdly, (to touch upon the &s;econd inconvenience men|tioned) when your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip</HI> proceeds again&s;t a particular Church among&s;t you, upon offence taken, is not this Elder&s;hip as well <HI>party,</HI> as <HI>Judge?</HI> If you think you have every whit the better of it, becau&s;e your elder&s;hip, though it be both <HI>party,</HI> and <HI>judge,</HI> yet hath an <HI>authoritative power,</HI> over tho&s;e whom it judgeth. I an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that as our Saviour told <HI>Pilate; He could have no power again&s;t him,</HI>
<PB N="81" REF="41"> <HI>except it were given him from above;</HI> no more can your Elder&s;hip have over tho&s;e, whom it judgeth in this ca&s;e. Now how uncertain and faint the probabilities are, that they have any power over them, gi|ven them <HI>from above,</HI> hath been formerly &s;hewed at large. And if that power which your Elder&s;hip claimeth, and exerci&s;eth over the Church arraigned, be not <HI>from above,</HI> then the Apologi&s;ts <HI>remedie</HI> is farre better and &s;afer, then yours. Secondly, to hold and maintain, that all tho&s;e that have an <HI>Authoritative power</HI> over men, may law|fully by vertue of &s;uch power, be both parties and judges, is to ex|alt all manner of tyrannie, violence, and oppre&s;&s;ion by a Law. Up|on &s;uch a &s;uppo&s;ition, men inve&s;ted with Authoritie and power whether in Church or State, may be their own carvers, and &s;erve them&s;elves of the e&s;tates, liberties and lives, of tho&s;e that are under them, how, and when, and as oft as they li&s;t. And why do you not &s;ubmit to the deci&s;ive judgement of the King in all controver&s;ies depending between you and him, if that be your Doctrine?</P>
<P>For the third inconvenience (&s;o called) I &s;hall be your debtour to tell me plainly and di&s;tinctly, what power more your Government giveth to a <HI>thou&s;and Churches over one, then to a Tinker, or the Hangman, over a thou&s;and.</HI> I do not remember where either your &s;elf or any of your partie, have calculated the proportion; but I well remember a &s;aying in <HI>Charron; That every humane propo&s;ition hath equall authoritie,</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Tout propo&s;i|tion humaine a autant d'authorite quel'autre, &s;i la rai&s;on n'on fait la diffe|rence. Char|ron de &s;age&s;&s;e. Plus creden|dum e&s;t a&s;&s;er|tioni alicujus &s;implicis &amp; non authori|zati excellen|ter in Scrip|turis eruditi, quam decla|rationi Papae.</NOTE> <HI>if rea&s;on make not the difference:</HI> and another of <HI>Ger&s;on</HI> (much com|mended by Prote&s;tant Authors, though the Author of it Pontifici|all) <HI>The &s;aying of a &s;imple man and no wayes authoriz'd, if he be well &s;een in the Scriptures, is rather to be beleeved then the Popes own determination.</HI> But <HI>A. S.</HI> what makes you think (for I can ea&s;ily gue&s;&s;e what makes you &s;ay) that the Government of the Apologi&s;ts <HI>gives no more power to a thou&s;and Churches over one, then to a Tinker or Hangman over a thou&s;and? &V;bi, quando, quibus te&s;tibus,</HI> did this Government, or any &s;on it hath, ever make any &s;uch compari&s;on, or &s;o farre honour either your <HI>tin|ker</HI> or <HI>hangman,</HI> as to make them equall in power <HI>to a thou&s;and Chur|ches?</HI> And yet I &s;uppo&s;e, if a man &s;hould &s;ay, that the du&s;t in the bal|lance, hath as much life in it, as the Sun, it would be no di&s;parage|ment to this excellent and glorious creature; becau&s;e the excellen|cie of it, doth not &s;tand in any degrees or &s;uperioritie of life above any other creature, but in the abundance of light which it hath, and the height of it's &s;cituation, and the &s;erviceablene&s;&s;e of it to the world by means of both. In like manner if it be &s;uppo&s;ed (which, I think upon what hath been delivered, may very rea&s;ona|bly
<PB N="82" REF="42"> be &s;uppo&s;ed) that the glorie and excellencie of Churches doth not &s;tand in any <HI>power or authoritie</HI> that one hath over an other, or many over one, but in other farre more rich, and holy, and honour|able endowments, relations, and qualifications, it can be no preju|dice or di&s;paragement unto <HI>ten thou&s;and</HI> of them, to &s;ay they have no more authoritie over one, then <HI>A. S.</HI> his <HI>tinker</HI> or <HI>hangman</HI> hath over them. Therefore if <HI>A. S.</HI> his admired piece of Church-policie hath no greater commendation, then to &s;erve for preventing &s;uch <HI>inconveniences</HI> as this, the world needs make no great lamentation over it, though it were in the condition of <HI>Rachels children,</HI> when &s;he <NOTE PLACE="marg">Matth. 2. 18.</NOTE> <HI>wept</HI> for them, and <HI>would not be comforted.</HI></P>
<P>Some other <HI>inconveniences</HI> there are, wherein <HI>A. S.</HI> finds the Go|vernment which he oppo&s;eth, tardie, and thinke he &s;ets a crown of glorie upon the head of his Presbyterie, in vindicating the <HI>innocencie</HI> of it in re&s;pect of &s;uch guilt; but alas, he wa&s;heth off this guilt with blood, or with water fouler then it (as hath been &s;hewed) and <HI>con|demneth</HI> his Government in that wherein he mainly <HI>alloweth</HI> it. The guilt is innocencie, in re&s;pect of the purgation. There is one incon|venience (formerly opened and in&s;i&s;ted upon in this Chapter) verie incident to Presbyterie, the con&s;cience whereof (me thinks) &s;hould make all the &s;ons of that way, rather to cover and compa&s;&s;ionate, then to complain or cry out of, any inconvenience, they either &s;ee, or rather think they &s;ee in another.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="5" TYPE="chapter">
<HEAD>Cap. 5. <HI>Whether the Apologi&s;ts and men of their Judgement, may lawfully, and without danger or prejudice to the State, be tolerated: and whether</HI> A. S. <HI>his rea&s;ons to the contrarie, be of &s;ufficient-weight; to per&s;wade ei|ther to the bani&s;hment, cru&s;hing, or &s;uppre&s;&s;ing of them in any kind.</HI></HEAD>
<P>HE that hath read the precedent part of this Di&s;cour&s;e, and doth, though but with the lowe&s;t degree of impartialitie, con|&s;ider what hath been argued, between the two wayes, Presbyterie and Apologi&s;me, cannot lightly but mourn over the title of this Chapter; and think him to be a man of iron entrails, that &s;hould give occa&s;ion to &s;uch a Que&s;tion as is there propounded.</P>
<P>Suppo&s;e the opinion maintained in the latter part of the &s;econd Chapter, were wav'd, and &s;uch a <HI>coercive power</HI> in matters of Reli|gion as <HI>A. S.</HI> contends for, allowed in the Magi&s;trates hand, yet that any man &s;hould plead for the drawing of this &s;word, again&s;t
<PB N="83" REF="42"> tho&s;e men, who fir&s;t, have &s;uch a con&s;iderable &s;trength, if not of evidence, yet of rea&s;on, for what they practi&s;e and profe&s;&s;e: &s;econd|ly, have a like (if not a more) con&s;iderable &s;trength again&s;t that way of Government which they cannot &s;ubmit to. Thirdly, are by their fierce&s;t adver&s;aries and oppo&s;ites them&s;elves, acknowledged ten times over for <HI>very pious, godly, and learned men;</HI> fourthly, have been (at lea&s;t the generalitie of them) and &s;o continue, men of the mo&s;t affectionate, and withall the mo&s;t effectuall activitie and for|wardne&s;&s;e, to promote the great cau&s;e of Religion, Parliament, and Kingdom. Fiftly, are as deep in, or (if you will) as much out of their e&s;tates rateably, for the &s;upport of this cau&s;e, as any other &s;ort of men what&s;oever. Sixtly, have (many of them) &s;uch as were meet for &s;uch a &s;ervice, adventur'd their per&s;ons and lives, in the face of the rage and furie of the common enemie, continuing &s;till in the &s;ame ingagements; yea &s;eventhly (and la&s;tly) have (&s;ome of them) expo&s;ed them&s;elves to more danger and harder termes from the ad|ver&s;e partie, then ordinarie (in ca&s;e they &s;hould prevail) by a pub|lique vindication of the cau&s;e of the Parliament in print from the Scriptures, and that before any man of differing judgement from them in Church affairs, appeared in the cau&s;e upon &s;uch terms; that any man (I &s;ay) on this &s;ide of malignancie, &s;hould con&s;ult the &s;or|row, trouble, di&s;grace, &s;uppre&s;&s;ion, ruine of men, &s;o holy, &s;o harm|le&s;&s;e, of &s;uch eminent de&s;ert in the cau&s;e of Religion, State, King|dom, me thinks &s;hould exceed the line of humanitie, and be thought &s;ome in&s;piration or &s;ugge&s;tion from the great enemie of mankind.</P>
<P>Neverthele&s;&s;e, if either God, rea&s;on, the peace or &s;afetie of the Kingdom, require the &s;orrows or &s;ufferings of the&s;e men, I make no que&s;tion but they will be willing to di&s;pence with all con&s;iderations what&s;oever that &s;tand up to plead their immunitie, and will with <HI>I&s;aac,</HI> patiently &s;uffer them&s;elves to be bound, yea and to be offered up in &s;acrifice al&s;o, if need be. Onely their humble reque&s;t and &s;uit is, that they may not be &s;acrificed upon the &s;ervice of the ignorance, vain &s;urmi&s;es, needle&s;&s;e jealou&s;ies, bitter &s;ugge&s;tions, whether of a few, or of many. Better a thou&s;and times is it, that &s;uch di&s;tempers as the&s;e, though found in millions of men, &s;hould &s;uffer, were it ne|ver &s;o deep, then that the lea&s;t hair of the head of one of tho&s;e men &s;hould fall to the ground.</P>
<P>One <HI>A. S.</HI> (it &s;eems) is come forth with a band of one and twen|tie Rea&s;ons, to attach the libertie of the&s;e men, and to &s;eize the free|dome of their con&s;ciences, and comforts for the u&s;e of the Presby|terie,
<PB N="84" REF="43"> though his word be, <HI>For God and his Countrey.</HI> But let us give him an unpartiall hearing of what he hath to &s;ay: if the Presby|terie hath right either to the liberties or comforts of the&s;e men, God forbid that any man &s;hould deny them unto it.</P>
<P>We &s;hall take the Allegations, into con&s;ideration, in that order that him&s;elf pre&s;ents them, in <HI>pa.</HI> 61. 62. 63. 64. 65. of his Di&s;cour&s;e; de&s;iring the Reader once more, to read the tenour of them more at large from his own pen, becau&s;e I intend my An&s;wer, with as little tran&s;cribing as may be.</P>
<P>To the fir&s;t we an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that we are no wayes able to compre|hend, why or how the toleration of the Apologi&s;ts and theirs, &s;hould <NOTE PLACE="marg">A. S. his fir&s;t Rea&s;on again&s;t Toleration, An&s;wered.</NOTE> <HI>open</HI> any <HI>doore to all &s;orts of erroneous opinions,</HI> any whit more then <HI>A. S.</HI> his intertaining of a &s;ober and di&s;creet &s;ervant to wait upon him, &s;hould open a doore to all the Kings guard to become his hou&s;hold attendants: or then an allowance of provender to his friends hor&s;e, &s;hould open a doore to all Prince <HI>Ruperts</HI> troops to rack and manger with him. (Nay &s;econdly, we are verily per&s;waded (and that upon good grounds) that the granting unto the Apologi&s;ts a free exerci&s;e of their mini&s;tery, will (under God) be an effectuall means both of cha&s;ing away many erroneous opinions, which are (for the pre&s;ent) fighting again&s;t the truth of God among&s;t us; as al&s;o of preventing the coming on of further &s;upplies from Hell unto them. <HI>A. S.</HI> him|&s;elf gives them this te&s;timony, <HI>p.</HI> 70. that <HI>whoever knows them, knows well they want no abilities to di&s;pute their opinion in any A&s;&s;embly in Europe.</HI> Men of their abilities, being &s;ound and orthodox in their judge|ments withall, are carpenters prepared (as it were) on purpo&s;e by God, for the cutting down of the horns of fal&s;e doctrines and opi|nions, if they be &s;uffered to work.</P>
<P>Thirdly, (and la&s;tly) if the wor&s;t &s;hould come to the wor&s;t (as the &s;aying is) better <HI>a doore opened to all &s;orts of erroneous opinions,</HI> yea and to many other inconveniences greater then this, then that the guilt of any per&s;ecution or of any evill intreatings of the Saints and &s;ervants of God &s;hould cleave unto a people or State.</P>
<P>To your &s;econd Alledgement, why no Toleration for the Apo|logi&s;ts, <NOTE PLACE="marg" TYPE="runSum">An&s;wer to his &s;econd Rea&s;on</NOTE> we an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that the very con&s;titution of it is but &s;uper|&s;titiou&s;ne&s;&s;e of fear: <HI>The &s;hadow of the mountains &s;eem men unto you. It may breed factions and divi&s;ions between per&s;ons of what&s;oever relation,</HI> &amp;c. <NOTE PLACE="marg">Iudg. 9.</NOTE> <HI>May</HI> (the countrey Proverbe &s;aith) <HI>comes but once a yeer;</HI> but that <HI>may</HI> this proverb &s;peaks of, <HI>mu&s;t</HI> come &s;o oft; but <HI>A. S.</HI> his <HI>May, may</HI> po&s;|&s;ibly not come in an age, no nor in many generations. And would
<PB N="85" REF="43"> he have &s;o many thou&s;ands of the deare children and &s;ervants of God, as do Apologize in the Land, actually and out of hand, be compelled to eat their bread in darkne&s;&s;e, to be filled with heavi|ne&s;&s;e, and many of them (it is like) to peri&s;h by hunger, nakedne&s;&s;e, &amp;c, for the honour and exaltation of his <HI>May be?</HI></P>
<Q><LG>
<L>Non Dea te genuit, &s;ed duris cautibus horrens</L>
<L>Gauca&s;us, hyrcanae&abque; admorunt ubera tygres.</L>
</LG>
<P>The man &s;peaks as if he had been bred of rocks, and &s;uck'd the milk of Tygers.</P></Q>
<P>Doth he not de&s;erve to be beaten with his own rod? and becau&s;e his writing books, <HI>may</HI> cau&s;e many troubles and di&s;tractions a|mong&s;t us, not to be <HI>tolerated</HI> to have pen, ink, or paper any more?</P>
<P>Secondly, I would know of him, whether he deemeth him&s;elf to be of an <HI>other Religion</HI> then the Apologi&s;ts, becau&s;e he di&s;&s;ents in judgement from them about Church Government. If &s;o, he mu&s;t deem him&s;elf either Arminian, Papi&s;t, Socinian, or wor&s;e; if not, then <HI>Candorem tuum A. S.</HI> in that malignant expre&s;&s;ion, whereby you would make &s;imple people beleeve, that <HI>the father and the &s;on, and &s;o the husband and wife, are of different Religions,</HI> when they do not walk in the &s;ame way of Church Di&s;cipline.</P>
<P>Thirdly, why &s;hould &s;uch a difference as this, at lea&s;t a libertie thus to differ, without &s;marting on either &s;ide, <HI>breed factions or divi|&s;ions between per&s;ons in relation? Doth the wilde a&s;&s;e bray</HI> (&s;aith <HI>Job) when</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Iob 6. 5.</NOTE> <HI>he hath gra&s;&s;e? or loweth the ox over his fodder?</HI> Surely per&s;ons are never upon better terms of advantage to agree, then when contentment is injoyed on every &s;ide. Or in ca&s;e of &s;uch a difference as we &s;peak of, if it be matter of di&s;content to one partie, that the other is not of the &s;ame practi&s;e with him, you may confidently beleeve that the mi&s;carriage in this kind re&s;ts on the Presbyterian &s;ide; the &s;pirit thereof inordinately lu&s;ting after unitie in practi&s;e, <HI>viz.</HI> whether ei|ther there be any unitie in judgement or no, yea or whether there be any ground for it or no, on the di&s;&s;enting &s;ide. You may pro|phecie of troubles and di&s;tractions likely to ari&s;e in families and other relations, with &s;omewhat the le&s;&s;e danger of mi&s;carrying in your predictions, if you animate or incourage tho&s;e that are, or &s;hal be of your party, to make the fray. As I have read a &s;tory of a wizard in France, who foretold the death of the Duke of Burgundie upon a certain day; and to make him&s;elf a true Prophet, when the day came, murthered him him&s;elf.</P>
<PB N="86" REF="44">
<P N="4"> 4. Suppo&s;e <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;hould have the apples given him which his &s;oule lu&s;teth after, and no toleration granted, would there not be as much if not more, rea&s;on to feare factions and divi&s;ions between Magi|&s;trate and Subject, Husband and wife, &amp;c. as otherwi&s;e? If God &s;hould not incline the judgement, or not &s;atisfie the con&s;cience of the one of the&s;e parties in relation, concerning the lawfulne&s;&s;e of that Government Presbyterial, which we &s;uppo&s;e (for argument &s;ake) to be e&s;tabli&s;hed without a toleration of any other, would not the par|tie aggrieved and burthened in this kinde, be (in all likelihood) wor&s;e company for the other, more troubled, more di&s;contented, and every whit as much divided both in judgement and practi&s;e from him, yea and more divided in affection, di&s;contentment being one of the greate&s;t enemies that are, to love, union, and peace. Were it not a thou&s;and times better, and more conducing unto unitie in affection and peace, rather to &s;uffer the di&s;contented partie to mar|ry, then to burne, I mean, to enjoy the freedome of their con&s;cience, rather then to be perpetually kept in an iron chaine of &s;pirituall di&s;|content. We cannot but know that relations were incumbred with &s;uch factions and divi&s;ions, as <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;peaks of, even whil&s;t the moun|taine of Samaria &s;tood, I mean, when Epi&s;copacie reigned, when yet there was no toleration of Pluralities of Church-government (though of Church-livings there was.)</P>
<P N="5">5. Nothing is more frequent in and about the Citie, then for mem|bers of the &s;ame familie, to addre&s;&s;e them&s;elves to &s;everall Mini&s;te|ries from time to time, the husband to heare in one place, the wife in another, the child in a third, for their better &s;pirituall accommo|dations re&s;pectively, yea, and &s;ometimes to communicate with &s;eve|rall Mini&s;ters, without the lea&s;t breach or touch of di&s;contentment on any &s;ide.</P>
<P N="6">6. And la&s;tly, It can hardly be expected, e&s;pecially in this King|dome, where the godly and under&s;tanding partie have &s;o long &s;uffe|red, and that in extremitie, from a peremptory impo&s;ed State-go|vernment, without any relaxation or mitigation, and have lately ta&s;ted the unexpre&s;&s;ible &s;weetne&s;&s;e of ea&s;e, peace, and libertie of con|&s;cience, that they &s;hould without extreme di&s;content be brought back into another hou&s;e of bondage, where the furnace of peremp|torie &s;ubjection is like to be het every whit as hot, as in the other. Excellency of teaching, and that abundant light of the knowledge of God, which hath &s;hined from the Mini&s;tery among&s;t us, into the hearts of many thou&s;ands, have made the con&s;cience very &s;oft and
<PB N="87" REF="44"> tender in many. And where con&s;cience is tender, a little violence is a great torment to it.</P>
<P>To <HI>A. S.</HI> his third rea&s;on, to prove the intolerablene&s;&s;e of a Tole|ration, <NOTE PLACE="marg">His third Rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE> we an&s;wer, that the inward parts of it are but vanitie and fal&s;hood. For 1. It &s;uppo&s;eth that malignant &s;uppo&s;ition we &s;pake of, <HI>viz.</HI> that Presbyterie and Apologi&s;me, make two differing Reli|gions. 2. That there is <HI>no State in Chri&s;tendome, where there is one onely Religion e&s;tabli&s;hed, that will admit the publick exerci&s;e of any other;</HI> which is manife&s;tly untrue, as is notoriou&s;ly knowne in France, the Low Countries, &amp;c. 3. And la&s;tly, It &s;uppo&s;eth, that Apologi&s;me, in ca&s;e it be tolerated, mu&s;t needs become a Schi&s;me in that Religion which is e&s;tabli&s;hed in the Land. Wee conceive, that every difference in judgement, doth not make a &s;chi&s;me in that Religion which is pro|fe&s;&s;ed on both &s;ides; we &s;hall then find abundance of the weed grow|ing in the Presbyterian field it &s;elfe. I my &s;elfe know differences not a few among&s;t that partie; and &s;ome not of the lighte&s;t con&s;equence. Or if his meaning be, that the practi&s;e of it, in ca&s;e of a Toleration, &s;hould become a <HI>Schi&s;me</HI> from the Presbyterian Church or Govern|ment, we an&s;wer, 1. That as yet we have no Presbyterian Church or Government among&s;t us; and &s;o, if the toleration be granted be|fore &s;uch a Government be e&s;tabli&s;hed, it is apparantly <GAP LANG="grc" DESC="foreign" RESP="OXF">, out of the reach of &s;uch an imputation for ever. 2. If it be not a &s;chi&s;me before, and without a toleration, I doe not apprehend what influ|ence or a&s;pect a Toleration &s;hould have upon it, to make it one. 3. And la&s;tly, I conceive him to be an incompetent Judge, uncapable of knowing or determining what a &s;ci&s;me is, who acknowledgeth his ignorance or non-knowledge of what a Church is, which is a <HI>A. S.</HI> his profe&s;&s;ion or confe&s;&s;ion (which you will) <HI>pag.</HI> 21. <HI>And in this al&s;o we confe&s;&s;e our ignorance, that we know not wherein con&s;i&s;teth it's e&s;|&s;ence or being</HI> (&s;peaking of a Church) I cannot beleeve that he &s;hould perfectly know the nature of darkne&s;&s;e, that is ignorant of what be|longs to light; nor that he &s;hould know what death is, who is igno|rant wherein life con&s;i&s;teth; nor that he &s;hould know what a <HI>&s;chi&s;me</HI> or rent means, that knows not what belongs to the unitie and in|tirene&s;&s;e of the body. The rule among the &s;ons of Rea&s;on, in all &s;uch ca&s;es as the&s;e, is this; <HI>Rectum e&s;t index &s;ui &amp; obliqui;</HI> And againe, that <HI>entia privativa cogno&s;cuntue ex &s;uis po&s;itivis, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P>Your fourth Rea&s;on, is rather &s;omewhat el&s;e then a Rea&s;on; a <NOTE PLACE="marg">His fourth rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE> confe&s;&s;ion of the dimne&s;&s;e or weakne&s;&s;e of your &s;ight. <HI>I cannot &s;ee</HI> (&s;ay you) <HI>how</HI> (a Toleration) <HI>can well be denied to other Sects, if it be granted to our Brethren:</HI> But</P>
<PB N="88" REF="45">
<P N="1"> 1. Doe you remember, how you quip your Brethren (as heer you call them) for a like expre&s;&s;ion us'd by them, <HI>pag.</HI> 41. <HI>If yee &s;ee no Scripture for it, yet others</HI> (you tell them) <HI>may &s;ee.</HI> So heer we tell you, that though <HI>you cannot &s;ee how</HI> a Toleration <HI>can well be denied to other Sects, if it &s;hould be granted unto your Brethren,</HI> yet others may &s;ee how very well it may. <HI>Bernardus non videt omnia.</HI></P>
<P N="2">2. It is much that you &s;hould not be able to <HI>&s;ee</HI> &s;uch a thing as this, who have &s;uch command over your eyes (as was noted formerly) as to &s;ee what you will. Is it a matter of &s;uch profound and difficult &s;peculation, to conceive, how he that hath the keeping of a doore with lock and key and bolts to it, &s;hould let in one man that knocks, without letting in all comers?</P>
<P N="3">3. Whereas you determine it to be a <HI>Que&s;tion inextricable, to expound cleerly, what &s;ects and what opinions are to be tolerated, and what not,</HI> doe you not prevaricate with your owne cau&s;e and confidence, and put the Magi&s;trate to a &s;tand, whether he &s;hould tolerate your opinion for Presbyterian Government, or not? Nay, doe you not put him out of all hope of ever coming to a cleere re&s;olution of what is his dutie to doe in this kind? For what patent can you &s;hew from Hea|ven, why this Opinion of yours &s;hould not abide the te&s;t and triall of that Law, which heer you impo&s;e upon others? I beleeve there are very few either &s;ects or opinions among&s;t us (in both which not|with&s;tanding we abound more then is for our comfort) that either are liable to more con&s;iderable and materiall exceptions, or that have been dealt with by an higher hand of oppo&s;ition and convicti|on, then this of yours. And why any one opinion which is in the &s;ame or greater condemnation of un&s;atisfactorine&s;&s;e and ambigui|tie, then others, &s;hould magnifie it &s;elfe to rule all others with a rod of iron, and to breake them in pieces like a potters ve&s;&s;ell, equitie or rea&s;on (for my part) I know none: and I feare <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elfe is as poore in this commoditie, as I.</P>
<P N="4">4. If it be &s;o <HI>inextricable a Que&s;tion, to expound cleerely, what &s;ects and opinions are to be tolerated, and what not,</HI> how will you doe to &s;way your Presbyterian Scepter with judgement and equitie? How will you know what opinions <HI>donare eccle&s;i&acirc;,</HI> to make free denizans of your Church, and what to disfranchi&s;e? By your own rule it is an <HI>inextri|cable Que&s;tion, cleerly</HI> to determine <HI>what opinions are to be tolerated, and what not.</HI> And if the Que&s;tion be &s;o difficult above mea&s;ure, to deter|mine what opinions are to be <HI>tolerated, and what not,</HI> it mu&s;t needs be yet of a farre more difficult and weightie con&s;ideration, to re&s;olve
<PB N="89" REF="45"> what are fit to be countenanced, to be e&s;tabli&s;hed, yea, and yet more, to be impo&s;ed, to be enforced upon the judgements and con&s;ciences of men, <HI>and what not;</HI> toleration being an act of a farre lighter impor|tance, then either an e&s;tabli&s;hment, or an enforcement.</P>
<P N="5">5. And la&s;tly, Whereas he addes (in the clo&s;e of this rea&s;on) that <HI>the le&s;&s;e the difference be, the greater is the &s;chi&s;me,</HI> and add's no more; I marvaile who he thinks will enterteine &s;uch a &s;aying, the old Writ of <HI>Ip&s;e dixit</HI> being out of date long agoe? yet the &s;aying &s;omewhat confirmes me in what I &s;aid before, <HI>viz.</HI> that the man knows not what belongs to a <HI>&s;chi&s;me.</HI> For doth he heer by a <HI>&s;chi&s;me</HI> under&s;tand any thing that is &s;infull? Then he makes the le&s;&s;er difference from the truth, to be a greater &s;in, then a greater would be. If his mean|ing be, that the le&s;&s;e materiall the ground or rea&s;on of any mans di&s;|&s;enting from a major part be, the greater is his fault or &s;in in di&s;&s;ent|ing; We an&s;wer, that his argument proceeds, not onely <HI>&agrave; non con|ce&s;&s;is,</HI> but al&s;o <HI>&agrave; non concedendis:</HI> for to di&s;&s;ent from a major part, though the grounds of a mans di&s;&s;ent be no matters of deep con&s;e|quence, yet if they be &s;uch wherein his judgement and con&s;cience are not &s;atisfied, his di&s;&s;ent is no <HI>&s;in</HI> at all, and con&s;equently cannot be the <HI>greater &s;in.</HI> Gnats mu&s;t not be &s;wallowed for any mans &s;ake, more then camels.</P>
<P>To his fifth Rea&s;on, we an&s;wer. Fir&s;t, that &s;uppo&s;e <HI>God in the Old</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">His fift Rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE> <HI>Te&s;tament granted no Toleration of divers Religions, or Di&s;ciplines,</HI> doth it follow from hence, that you &s;hould grant none neither? Dare you &s;ay in matters of knowledge, authoritie and power, <HI>Ero &s;imilis alti&s;|&s;imo,</HI> you will be like the Highe&s;t? Remember the fall of the <HI>&s;on of the morning.</HI> Will you &s;et your tre&s;hold by Gods, and compare with him for excellencie of knowledge, or infallibilitie of di&s;cerning? If you could a&s;&s;ure us after the rate of a Divine a&s;&s;urance, that that <HI>Religion and Di&s;cipline</HI> which you would impo&s;e on us, are in all points &s;ound, and ju&s;tifiable in the &s;ight of God, we could much better bear the height of your indignation again&s;t a Toleration of any Di&s;cipline or opinions but your own.</P>
<P>Secondly, though God granted no &s;uch Toleration (as you &s;peak of) <HI>in terminis,</HI> yet he &s;traightly prohibited all manner of violence, oppre&s;&s;ion, and hard mea&s;ure among his people one towards ano|ther; and in &s;peciall manner charged it upon the con&s;ciences of the rich, not to take any advantage of the povertie of their Brethren, to exact upon them, en&s;lave them, and the like. Though &s;uch Laws as the&s;e, in the letter of them, re&s;pected onely civill tran&s;actions
<PB N="82" REF="46"> and dealings between men, yet the equitie and &s;pirit of them ex|tends to &s;pirituals al&s;o, men being every whit as liable to violence, oppre&s;&s;ion, and hard mea&s;ure from men for their con&s;cience &s;ake, as in any other re&s;pects or upon any other grounds what&s;oever. Therefore in ca&s;e there had been a minor partie in that Nation, that had been of a peculiar judgement by them&s;elves, about the &s;ence and meaning of &s;uch or &s;uch a Law, relating unto practi&s;e (as Laws generally do, in one kind or other) and &s;o had di&s;&s;ented in this practi&s;e from the major part of their brethren in their Nation; in ca&s;e this major part had taken the advantage of their brethrens weakne&s;&s;e, and becau&s;e they were fewer in number, &s;hould have forc'd them again&s;t the light of their judgements, to alter their practi&s;e, or if they refu&s;ed, &s;hould have troden and trampled upon them, or any wayes evill intreated them, it had been as apparant a breach of the Laws, we &s;pake of, as any oppre&s;&s;ion or violence in civill proceedings. And the truth is, that for men that are truly con&s;cientious, civill libertie (as it is called) <HI>i.</HI> freedome from ille|gall taxes, impo&s;itions, exactions, impri&s;onments, without libertie of con&s;cience, is an accommodation of little value; yea without this, &s;uch men are not capable of much ea&s;e or benefit by the other. They are &s;till in danger of hearing in trouble and mole&s;tation from the State, for their con&s;cience &s;ake.</P>
<P N="3">3. Though God gave no &s;uch Toleration (as you &s;peake of) by a Law, yet he did actually tolerate for a long time together with much patience, not onely a minor, but a major part of the Jewi&s;h Nation, in a manner the whole Nation, and that not onely in &s;ome opinions or practi&s;es, which were di&s;putably fal&s;e or &s;infull, but even in &s;uch which were notoriou&s;ly and unque&s;tionably &s;uch. <GAP LANG="grc" DESC="foreign" RESP="OXF"> (&s;aith <HI>Paul,</HI> Act. 13. 18.) <HI>He &s;uffered</HI> (or, tolerated) <HI>their manners in the Wilderne&s;&s;e fourtie yeeres;</HI> and afterwards in the land of Canaan, many and many a yeere longer, even <HI>till there was no remedie,</HI> (as the Scripture &s;omewhere &s;peaketh.) So then if you be willing to follow the practi&s;e and example of God (an honour whereunto you &s;ecure to pretend in this Rea&s;on) you mu&s;t <HI>tolerate</HI> your Brethren, not onely in &s;ome opinions and practi&s;es, which are dialectically and topical|ly evill, but even in tho&s;e which are demon&s;tratively &s;uch.</P>
<P N="4">4. And la&s;tly, Whereas you adde, that <HI>the New Te&s;tament requireth no le&s;&s;e union among Chri&s;tians, then the Old did amongst the Jews,</HI> we ac|knowledge the truth of what you &s;ay, but the pertinencie of it to your purpo&s;e we yet de&s;ire. Though the <HI>new Te&s;tament requires union</HI>
<PB N="83" REF="46"> <HI>amongst Chri&s;tians,</HI> and that very ardently and pre&s;&s;ingly, yet it doth not require him that is &s;tronger, to cudgell him that is weaker, into the &s;ame opinion with him. If you be of a better growth and &s;tature in knowledge then we, and comprehend &s;uch truths as we doe not yet under&s;tand, we are mo&s;t willing, as farre and as fa&s;t, as meat and nouri&s;hment will doe it, to grow up unto you; onely we would not be rack'd or &s;tretch'd to the &s;ame &s;tature or proportion with you. We &s;hewed in our &s;econd Chapter, what means the New Te&s;tament hath appointed and &s;anctified, for the effecting of the unitie among&s;t the Saints, which it requireth of them.</P>
<P>For your &s;ixth Rea&s;on (&s;o called) we can &s;carce &s;ee the face of a <NOTE PLACE="marg">His &s;ixt Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> Rea&s;on in it. You &s;ay, that if <HI>your Brethren do a&s;&s;ent to your Doctrine, and are re&s;olved likewi&s;e to a&s;&s;ent to your Di&s;cipline, which &s;hall be e&s;tabli&s;hed by common con&s;ent, they need no other toleration then the re&s;t.</HI> If your meaning be, that in ca&s;e <HI>they a&s;&s;ent to your Doctrine, and are re&s;olved to a&s;&s;ent to your Di&s;cipline, viz.</HI> immediately and out of hand, as &s;oon as it comes from under the hammer, and hath but the &s;tamp of Presbyteriall Authoritie &s;et upon it, we are clearly of your mind, and do not con|ceive, how or why they &s;hould need any other alteration, then what others have. Onely we &s;omewhat marvell that you &s;hould &s;o farre forget your &s;elf, as to imply (by this your expre&s;&s;ion) that even your Presbyterian partie it &s;elf &s;tandeth <HI>in need of a toleration,</HI> as well as ours. <HI>Iam &s;umus ergo pares.</HI> Truth (I &s;ee) is &s;ometimes too quick and cunning for her adver&s;aries. But if your meaning be, that a re|&s;olution <HI>in your Brethren</HI> (the Apologi&s;ts) <HI>to a&s;&s;ent to your Di&s;cipline, viz.</HI> when, and a&s;&s;oon as they can po&s;&s;ibly &s;atisfie them&s;elves touching the lawfulne&s;&s;e of it, will exempt them from a nece&s;&s;itie of a Tole|ration, both they (we &s;uppo&s;e) and our &s;elves &s;hall be very glad to hear &s;uch tydings from your pen. We make no que&s;tion but they are as throughly <HI>re&s;olved to a&s;&s;ent to your Di&s;cipline</HI> upon &s;uch terms, as you can de&s;ire them.</P>
<P>That you adde, is very incongruous. <HI>It would fir&s;t be di&s;cu&s;&s;ed</HI> (&s;ay you) <HI>wherein they are re&s;olved to di&s;&s;ent.</HI> Fir&s;t, we marvell who you mean &s;hould <HI>di&s;cu&s;&s;e</HI> that wherein they &s;hould be <HI>re&s;olved to di&s;&s;ent:</HI> e&s;peci|ally con&s;idering, &s;econdly, that they do not u&s;e to take up their re|&s;olutions beforehand, not &s;o much as to di&s;&s;ent at all, muchle&s;&s;e wherein or about what they &s;hall di&s;&s;ent. Thirdly, how &s;hould they re&s;olve beforehand, wherein, or whereabout to di&s;&s;ent, except they could prophecie of your future thoughts and re&s;olutions.</P>
<P>You would further have it <HI>con&s;idered</HI> (but you tell us not here nei|ther
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<PB N="92" REF="49"> by whom) <HI>whether it be of &s;o great importance, that in con&s;ideration thereof, they dare not, in good con&s;cience, entertain communion with you.</HI> We &s;carce under&s;tand your Engli&s;h, or meaning here; and therefore if we an&s;wer be&s;ides your mind, your words are in fault. We grant that other men of good abilities, con&s;cience and learning, may draw up a very &s;atisfactory re&s;olution concerning &s;uch or &s;uch a ca&s;e, or practi&s;e, about which I am &s;crupul'd; but it will not follow from hence, that therefore this re&s;olution will be &s;atisfactorie unto me, or that I with a good con&s;cience may walk by it. Though the particular rea&s;on or rea&s;ons, one or more, upon which the Apolo|gi&s;ts &s;hall refu&s;e to entertain &s;uch a communion with you, as you mean (or at lea&s;t &s;hould mean, if you &s;peak any thing to purpo&s;e) &s;hould be by never &s;o many, and upon never &s;o much con&s;ideration, adjudged as in&s;ufficient or incon&s;iderable to cau&s;e any &s;uch refu&s;e|all in them; yet this will not impo&s;e a nece&s;&s;itie upon them, to joyn in communion with you, except you can make them capable of a &s;ufficiencie of rea&s;on in &s;uch a re&s;olution why they may with a good con&s;cience &s;ubmit unto it.</P>
<P>To your &s;eventh Rea&s;on, we an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that though the Apolo|gi&s;ts <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 7th Rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE> &s;hould <HI>not be pre&s;&s;ed to be actors in anything again&s;t their con&s;ciences,</HI> yet there is a nece&s;&s;itie lying upon them <HI>to be &s;uiters for a toleration,</HI> (I mean, in ca&s;e it will not be granted them without &s;uing for, which would be a greater honour to your Presbyterie, then the contrarie peremptorine&s;&s;e is like to be) <HI>viz.</HI> that &s;o they may be actors of good, according to their con&s;ciences. Suppo&s;e <HI>A. S.</HI> had bread and wa|ter, wherewith to &s;ub&s;i&s;t, but withall had a good &s;umme of money due to him, and that from one that was very well able to make pay|ment, or otherwi&s;e had an opportunitie to preferre him&s;elf to &s;ome place of profit, credit, or the like, if he would but become a &s;uitor for it; would he think that <HI>he had no need</HI> either to require his money of him in who&s;e hand it lies, or to &s;ue for &s;uch preferment? The Apologi&s;ts conceive there is a nece&s;&s;itie upon them, to &s;ave the &s;ouls of others, yea of as many as they can lawfully purcha&s;e an oppor|tunitie to &s;ave, as well as their own. But,</P>
<P>Secondly, we know not by what Authoritie or intere&s;t you un|dertake to &s;ecure them, <HI>that they &s;hall not be pre&s;&s;ed to be actors in any thing again&s;t their con&s;ciences.</HI> It may be you are but of the ordinarie Presbyterian &s;tature and pitch, and &s;o <HI>your mercies</HI> though &s;omewhat &s;evere, yet po&s;&s;ibly may not be very <HI>cruell:</HI> But (&s;aith the Scripture) <HI>in tho&s;e dayes there were Gyants in the earth,</HI> as well as men of the com|mon <NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">. 4.</NOTE>
<PB N="93" REF="49"> &s;tandart; &s;o we fear a partie among&s;t you of hyper-presbyte|rian &s;pirits, who&s;e &s;pring-tydes may &s;well beyond your low-water marks. But,</P>
<P>Thirdly (and la&s;tly) we conceive this promi&s;e of yours to them, <HI>that they &s;hall not be pre&s;&s;ed to be actors,</HI> &amp;c. to be broken by your &s;elf &s;even times over in your di&s;cour&s;e, and by others of your partie from time to time. To con&s;ent unto your Government, is (doubt|le&s;&s;e) to act again&s;t their con&s;cience; otherwi&s;e, they had no rea&s;on to di&s;&s;ent from it. And whether to threaten them with a non-tole|ration, together with all the evils and mi&s;eries attending thereon, yea with paying for it in their pur&s;e and per&s;ons, in ca&s;e they will not con&s;ent unto it (as &s;ome others of your partie have done) be not a <HI>pre&s;&s;ing</HI> of them unto it, we leave unto men, who&s;e judgements are not wholly &s;wallowed up in the gulf of Presbyterian zeal, to determine.</P>
<P>To your eight Rea&s;on, we an&s;wer, that we find very little heart <NOTE PLACE="marg">His eight Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> or face, of Rea&s;on in it. The &s;trength of it (whatever it is) lies in this hypotheticall propo&s;ition: If it be <HI>again&s;t the nature of the commu|nion of Saints to live in &s;ects apart, without communicating at the Lords table,</HI> then ought not the Apologi&s;ts to be tolerated. But, &amp;c. But good <HI>A. S.</HI> do you conceive the men would under a Toleration, live without communicating at the Lords table? I know not what com|munion you have with their intentions or &s;pirits, more then I: but for the pre&s;ent, I am no man of your beleif herein. Toleration or no Toleration, I beleeve they will communicate at the Lords table, and that other then twice a yeer.</P>
<P>Secondly, if living <HI>in Sects apart</HI> be &s;o offen&s;ive to your zeal over <HI>the communion of Saints,</HI> why do you not rather mediate a Toleration for them, then oppo&s;e it? If you &s;hall &s;uffer them to work with you, they will be &s;o much the more free to eat and drink with you, and to exerci&s;e all manner of Chri&s;tian friend&s;hip and familiaritie with you. But if you &s;hall thru&s;t them into holes and corners, and judge them unworthy of all part and fellow&s;hip with you in the publique mini&s;terie of the Go&s;pel; you impo&s;e little le&s;&s;e then a nece&s;&s;itie upon them <HI>to live apart,</HI> and to enjoy them&s;elves among&s;t them&s;elves; and be&s;ides repre&s;ent your &s;elves unto them as no wayes de&s;irous of com|munion with them. Therefore in this Rea&s;on your premi&s;&s;es and conclu&s;ion are at utter defiance the one again&s;t the other.</P>
<P>As for your ninth Rea&s;on, it is every whit as wilde, and wide <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 9. Rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> from the purpo&s;e, as the former. For what if <HI>the Scripture exhorts us</HI>
<PB N="86" REF="50"> <HI>ever more unto unitie,</HI> and this unitie <HI>cannot be ea&s;ily procured by a Tolera|tion of Sects,</HI> doth it therefore follow, that godly, learned and or|thodox men, &s;uch as being encouraged though at an under-rate, are (as was formerly &s;hewed) both able and likely to do as good &s;ervice again&s;t <HI>Sects</HI> as any men, are to be barr-hoy&s;ted, qua&s;h'd, cru&s;h'd, onely becau&s;e they cannot &s;ay, a vi&s;ion, where other men &s;ay it? The Scripture exhorts unto many things, which are not to be procured by every thing that is lawfull, no nor yet by every thing that is otherwi&s;e nece&s;&s;arie and fitting to be done. Were not this a ridiculous rea&s;oning, The Scripture exhorts to <HI>live godlily in this pre|&s;ent world;</HI> but this cannot be procured by eating and drinking. Therefore eating and drinking are not to be tolerated. <HI>Apag&egrave; cru|entas nugas!</HI></P>
<P>Whereas you adde, that <HI>a Toleration of Sects, cannot but daily beget new Schi&s;mes and Divi&s;ions.</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that this Allegation we have an&s;wered alreadie once and again: yet &s;econdly, we adde, that many inconveniences, &s;ickne&s;&s;es, di&s;ea&s;es come by eating and drink|ing, yet are the&s;e to be tolerated in the world. Thirdly, we plead for no Toleration of any Sect, (nor of any thing &s;o called) but which may &s;tand with the utmo&s;t that either <HI>A. S.</HI> with his pen, or his whole partie with theirs, can do again&s;t them to &s;uppre&s;&s;e them. Fourthly, we have formerly prov'd, that Apologi&s;me is neither Sect, nor Schi&s;me, more then <HI>A.</HI> S &s;i&s;me is. Fiftly (and la&s;tly) whereas you &s;ay, that <HI>a Toleration of Sects cannot but daily beget new &s;chi&s;me, &amp;c.</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that Gods toleration <HI>or long &s;uffering</HI> towards &s;in|ners, doth not onely <HI>lead</HI> all &s;inners <HI>to repentance,</HI> but al&s;o bring ma|ny thereunto. And why &s;hould not mans toleration expect an ef|fect an&s;werable hereunto? Secondly, the di&s;ciples in the &s;hip were as much afraid, that their deare Lord and Ma&s;ter had been a foule &s;pirit, and would have &s;unk them in the Sea, as <HI>A. S.</HI> is afraid of a Toleration, that it mu&s;t needs beget new &s;chi&s;mes and divi&s;ions daily. But as the feared De&s;troyer proved the experienced Pre|&s;erver of that &s;hip and men; &s;o may <HI>A. S.</HI> his feared Propagator of <HI>Schi&s;mes and Divi&s;ions,</HI> be found an experienced de&s;troyer and di&s;&s;ol|ver of them. That means of all other which hath God in it, is like&s;t to do the deed; and God (we know) was neither in the tempe&s;t, nor in the earthquake, nor in the fire, but in the &s;till voice.</P>
<P>His tenth Rea&s;on, being help'd, ri&s;eth up in this form. If <HI>there was</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 10 Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> <HI>a greater difference among&s;t the members as the Church of Corinth in the time of St. Paul, and yet they communicated together;</HI> and that by the <HI>Apo&s;tles</HI>
<PB N="87" REF="50"> <HI>exhortation,</HI> then ought not the Apologi&s;ts to be tolerated. But true is the former, therefore the latter al&s;o. We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that the fa|brick of your Argument is built upon a fal&s;e foundation or &s;uppo|&s;ition, <HI>viz.</HI> that the Rea&s;on why, the Apologi&s;ts refu&s;e communion with you, (you mean I &s;uppo&s;e, in your &s;acramentall actions) is, becau&s;e of the latitude, weight or degree of the differences in judge|ment between you and them: whereas the rea&s;on of their refu&s;all in this kind, is the nature or particularity of the difference, together with your practi&s;e depending upon your opinion in oppo&s;ition unto theirs, not the height, weight, or importance of either. A difference in judgement about the lawfulne&s;&s;e of &s;tinted forms of prayer, is nothing &s;o materiall or weightie, as a difference about the nature of Faith, Ju&s;tification, &amp;c. yet the lighter difference in this ca&s;e, makes per&s;ons &s;o differing, uncapable of joyning together in com|munion, in the u&s;e of &s;uch prayers; whereas the greater difference would not.</P>
<P>Secondly, if there were &s;o many and great <HI>differences amongst the members of the Church of Corinth,</HI> as you &s;peak of, and yet <HI>Paul</HI> no waies per&s;waded or incouraged the predominant or major partie among&s;t them, either to ca&s;t out, cut off, or &s;uppre&s;&s;e, the underling parties, but <HI>exhorted them unto mutuall communion,</HI> &amp;c. why do not you con|tent your &s;elf with the line of the &s;ame proce&s;&s;e, and in&s;tead of di&s;|gracing, qua&s;hing, cru&s;hing, trampling on, onely exhort the &s;ects and &s;chi&s;mes among&s;t you unto <HI>mutuall communion?</HI> and to the <HI>for|bearance of Sects and Divi&s;ions;</HI> a practi&s;e which you do well to take notice of in the Apo&s;tle, but do ill to think that your own of club|law is better.</P>
<P>Thirdly (and la&s;tly) nor do we know any ground or good bot|tome you have for your a&s;&s;umption, wherein you affirm, that <HI>there was greater difference among&s;t the members of the Church of Corinth,</HI> then is between the Apologi&s;ts and you. Old <HI>Ip&s;e dixit</HI> is made to carrie this burthen alone.</P>
<P>Your eleventh Rea&s;on is verie corpulent, but le&s;&s;e active; the chief <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 11 Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> ingredients of it being <HI>Abbots</HI> and <HI>Priors, Convents</HI> and <HI>Mona&s;teries among&s;t the Papi&s;ts, St. Francis, St. Dominick,</HI> and <HI>the Donati&s;ts,</HI> with who&s;e opinion and practi&s;e, you &s;ay, the <HI>opinion of your Brethren too much &s;ymbolizeth.</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that <HI>Theologia &s;ymbolica non e&s;t ar|gumentativa.</HI> Angels and Divels agree in &s;omething: yet this agree|ment is no impeachment either to the holine&s;&s;e or happine&s;&s;e of the Angels. <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf &s;ymbolizeth with <HI>Ne&s;torius</HI> the heretique
<PB N="96" REF="51"> in one propertie; of whom <HI>Vincentius Lerinencis</HI> reporteth, that <HI>to</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Qui ut uni haere&s;i &s;uae a|ditum patefa|ceret, cuncta|rum hoere&s;eon bla&s;phemias in&s;ectabatur. Vincent. Ler. cap.</HI> 16.</NOTE> <HI>make way for his own here&s;ie</HI> [or opinion] <HI>he fell heavie upon all here&s;ies be|&s;ide.</HI> Secondly, whereas he affirmeth, that <HI>the opinion of his Brethren is not unlike to the Convents and Mona&s;teries among&s;t the Papi&s;ts;</HI> certainly the unlikene&s;&s;e between them is farre greater, then that between an aple and an oy&s;ter. We cannot but wonder, how or in what re&s;pect, the man &s;hould conceive, that an inward, &s;pirituall and notion all thing, as an opinion is, &s;hould be like a great building made of lime and &s;tone, or a pack of idle fellows in a fat fraternity. Thirdly, whereas he in&s;inuates an hatefull &s;imilitude between his <HI>Brethren</HI> and the <HI>Donati&s;ts, who</HI> (he tels us) <HI>&s;eparated them&s;elves from other Chur|ches, under pretext, that they were not &s;o holy as their own;</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that this in&s;inuation will not &s;o much as in &s;hew touch all the Apo|logi&s;ts however, becau&s;e &s;ome of them (we beleeve) have <HI>no Churches of their own;</HI> and therefore they cannot pretend more holine&s;&s;e in them, then in others. Secondly, that neither in &s;ub&s;tance or truth doth it touch any of them, or their opinion. For, fir&s;t, they do not &s;eperate from other Churches, but onely in &s;uch opinions and pra|cti&s;es wherein they cannot get leave of their con&s;ciences to joyne with them; the one half (at lea&s;t) of which &s;eparation, is made even among&s;t their Churches them&s;elves, one from another; one di&s;&s;enting from another not onely in many opinions, but in &s;ome materiall practi&s;es (as before was touch'd, and that from <HI>A. S.</HI> his own pen, no waies partiall you may think in &s;uch a ca&s;e.) Secondly, we would know, whether <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf and his partie, doth not as much <HI>&s;ymbolize with the Donati&s;ts</HI> in that criticall propertie or pra|cti&s;e we &s;peak of, as the Apologi&s;ts. For under what pretext do they &s;eparate from the Church of Rome and from Epi&s;copall Chur|ches, but onely this, that they think <HI>not their Churches, to be as holy as their own.</HI> If they &s;eparate from them upon any other grounds, it were not much materiall though they held communion with them &s;till. Yea thirdly, if they do not think their Presbyteriall Churches <HI>more holy</HI> then the Congregationall, they are farre more guiltie of Schi&s;me and Separation, then their Brethren here &s;poken of. For then they are at libertie in point of con&s;cience, to come over and joyn with them; when as the other are in bands and fetters of con|&s;cience, and cannot pa&s;&s;e unto them. Their Brethren would gladly come over unto them, but cannot: they can come over unto the&s;e but will not. It is the will, not the act, that makes Schi&s;me and Separation. Fourthly, we do not &s;ee, as deep as you have laid the
<PB N="97" REF="51"> charge, wherein the Apologi&s;ts do any whit more &s;ymbolize with Covents, Mona&s;teries, or Orders, among&s;t the Papi&s;ts, then you and your friends. You tell them, that <HI>all their Churches beleeve one Doctrine together with you, and that every one of the&s;e Churches hath one Mini&s;ter, as the</HI> Popi&s;h <HI>Convents a particular Abbot or Prior.</HI> We pray you, do not <HI>all your Churches beleeve one Doctrine together? and hath not every one of your Churches one Mini&s;ter?</HI> Wherein then lies the difference between you and them? or wherein do they &s;ymbolize more with Convents or Mona&s;teries, then your &s;elf? Nay, (fifthly and la&s;tly) as if you had quite forgotten your rhomb, you tacitely couple your &s;elf with tho&s;e Popi&s;h Convents, Mona&s;teries, and Orders, in one ignoble con&s;ideration, from which you acquit your Brethren. <HI>They onely differ</HI> (&s;ay you to them) <HI>in this, that ye have no Generall, or any thing an&s;werable thereunto, to keep you in unitie and conformitie;</HI> plainly implying, that your Presbyterians have, <HI>viz.</HI> their &s;overaigne Judicatory. So that if this your rea&s;on &s;hould but take place, and be held valid, it is your Presbyterian partie, not the partie Apologizing, that ought to &s;uffer the non-toleration you &s;peak of; it being they, not the&s;e, that are the great &s;ymbolizers, with St. <HI>Francis,</HI> and St. <HI>Dominick.</HI></P>
<P>To your twelfth Rea&s;on, we have given an&s;wer upon an&s;wer for|merly; <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 12. Rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE> as fir&s;t, where we con&s;idered of the <HI>examples of the Kings of Judah,</HI> and &s;hewed how little they contribute to the claime of <HI>cocr|cive power</HI> in the Magi&s;trate, to take away here&s;ies, &s;chi&s;mes, &s;uper|&s;titions, &amp;c. Secondly, where we argued again&s;t &s;uch a power by &s;everall demon&s;trations. Thirdly, where we gave an account al&s;o, how Toleration is no way either to Schi&s;me, here&s;ie, &amp;c. So that there is not one <HI>apex</HI> or <HI>iota</HI> of this Rea&s;on remaining unan&s;wered.</P>
<P>The Logico-Divinitie of your thirteenth Rea&s;on, con&s;i&s;teth in this <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 13. Rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE> Enthymeme, <HI>If we have but one God, one Chri&s;t, and one Lord, one Spirit, one Faith, one Bapti&s;me, (whereby we enter into the Church) and are one Bo|die, we ought to have one Communion, whereby to be &s;piritually fed,</HI> and <HI>one Di&s;cipline to be ruled by:</HI> and if &s;o, then ought not the Apologi&s;ts to be tolerated. We an&s;wer, that neither doth your inference or conclu|&s;ion here at all follow from your premi&s;&s;es. We have all you &s;peak of, one, one, and one; and in regard of that multiplied unitie, <HI>we ought</HI> (as you &s;ay) <HI>to have one Communion, and one Di&s;cipline;</HI> But fir&s;t, not nece&s;&s;arily that <HI>Communion,</HI> or <HI>that Di&s;cipline,</HI> which are of Cla&s;|&s;ique in&s;piration, no more then tho&s;e which are either of Papall, or Epi&s;copall recommendation; becau&s;e though we judge the&s;e two latter &s;pirits more &s;phalmaticall, erroneous and dangerous then
<PB N="98" REF="52"> the fir&s;t, yet we cannot think that either the Pope or Bi&s;hops, or both together, have &s;o ing ro&s;&s;ed the &s;pirit of errour and fallibitie, but that they have left of that anointing more then enough to initiate all other orders, &s;ocieties, and profe&s;&s;ions of men in the world. Se|condly, though we <HI>ought to have one Communion and Di&s;cipline,</HI> yet ought we to be led into this unitie, by the hand of an Angel of light, not to be frighted into it by an evill Angel of fear and terror. Third|ly, that dutie which lies upon all Chri&s;tians, to have but <HI>one Commu|nion and Di&s;cipline</HI> among&s;t them, is no di&s;pen&s;ation unto any partie or number of them, to &s;mite their Brethren with the fi&s;t of uncharita|blenes, or to di&s;mount them from their mini&s;teriall &s;tandings in the Church, becau&s;e they will not, or rather cannot, knit and joyn in the &s;ame Communion &amp; Di&s;cipline with them. Nay, fourthly, that verie tye of dutie which lies upon all Chri&s;tians <HI>to have but one</HI> and the &s;ame <HI>Communion and Di&s;cipline</HI> among&s;t them, carries this ingage|ment upon them all along with it, to &s;hew all love, to u&s;e all manner of gentlene&s;&s;e and long &s;uffering towards tho&s;e that are contrarie minded to them either in the one or in the other, &s;ince love is not onely a &s;odering and uniting affection, but further commends the per&s;on in whom it is found, as one to whom God hath appeared, and who hath been taught by him. Therefore fifthly (and la&s;tly) to make the ingagement that lies upon all Chri&s;tians to <HI>have but one Communion and Di&s;cipline,</HI> a ground and rea&s;on why &s;uch as differ from others about the&s;e, &s;hould be evill intreated, &s;uppre&s;&s;ed, kept under hatches, or the like, is as if a man &s;hould plead that naturall affection which a parent ow's unto his children, for a ground and motive why he &s;hould &s;harply &s;courge them when they are &s;ick and weak.</P>
<P>His fourteenth Rea&s;on is of an unknown &s;trength (at lea&s;t to me) <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 14 Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> If I were a Magi&s;trate, I &s;hould never the more know how to prepare to battell again&s;t the Apologi&s;ts or any other godly per&s;on, for the &s;ound of this trumpet. Surely of all the re&s;t, this Rea&s;on will never be acce&s;&s;arie to the undoing of the&s;e men. However, let a poore man be heard in his cau&s;e. The Rea&s;on then with all the help it is capa|ble of, ri&s;eth up but thus. <HI>If Churches have Di&s;ciplines or Governments different in their &s;pecies, then the Churches mu&s;t be different in their &s;pecies al&s;o. But the con&s;equent is fal&s;e,</HI> &s;ince there is but one Church: <HI>Ergo</HI> Apologi&s;me is intolerable. They that can gather this conclu&s;ion out of the premi&s;&s;es, may very well hope <HI>to gather grapes of thorns, and figs of thi&s;tles.</HI> The con&s;equent in this argument, which the Di&s;puter
<PB N="99" REF="52"> &s;aith is fal&s;e, is this, <HI>Churches mu&s;t be different in their &s;pecies.</HI> If the meaning of this <HI>con&s;equent</HI> be, that there is an ab&s;olute nece&s;&s;itie, that Churches &s;hould <HI>differ &s;pecie</HI> one from another, the di&s;putant is in the truth, in &s;aying the con&s;equent is fal&s;e. Or if the meaning be, that Churches ought to <HI>differ &s;pecie</HI> one from another, the &s;ame ver|dict may &s;till pa&s;&s;e upon it. But upon that &s;uppo&s;ition which is made in the Antecedent of this argument, <HI>viz.</HI> that the&s;e Churches <HI>have Di&s;ciplines or Governments different in their &s;pecies,</HI> the <HI>con&s;equent</HI> is not onely <HI>true,</HI> but nece&s;&s;arily true: and that upon the Di&s;putants own ground, which is, that <HI>all collective bodies that are governed, are differen|ced</HI> (&s;pecie) <HI>by their different governments.</HI> But be the Con&s;equent, or be the Antecedent, or be the con&s;equence, be any thing be nothing, or be every thing in the premi&s;&s;es, either true or fal&s;e, why &s;hould not the Apologi&s;ts be tolerated notwith&s;tanding? Be the Sunne in <HI>Aries,</HI> or be it in <HI>Taurus,</HI> or be it in <HI>Capricorn,</HI> why &s;hould not <HI>A. S.</HI> be tolerated to write more books for the cau&s;e Presbyterian notwith|&s;tanding? I hear that upon the applau&s;e and approbation of this by his partie, he hath &s;ince put forth his hand to another, as <HI>Herod</HI> &s;ee|ing <NOTE PLACE="marg">Act. 12. 2, 3.</NOTE> that his butcherie upon <HI>James, plea&s;ed the people, put forth his hand to take Peter al&s;o.</HI></P>
<P>But is there nothing more in the Rea&s;on then this? Truly if <HI>A. S.</HI> hides the thea&s;ure of his mind &s;o deepe another time, digg for it who will for me. For this once I have taken paines to finde it; and have found &s;omewhat which I concive is like to it, if not Identically it. The man (I take it) would be here conceived to rea&s;on after this manner. <HI>If the Church of Chri&s;t ought to be ruled or Governed, only with one &s;pecies or kinde of government, then ought not they to be &s;uffered, who goe about to pluralize this government, or to &s;et up a kind of government in the Church, &s;pecifically differing from the government more generally practi&s;ed and e&s;tabli&s;h|ed. Sed verum prius: ergo &amp; po&s;terius:</HI> and con&s;equently the Apologi&s;ts being men that would doe &s;uch a thing as this, are not to be tolera|ted. If this be the Argument, this is the An&s;wer. Fir&s;t, the con&s;equence is lame, and halts right downe; becau&s;e though the Church of Chri&s;t ought to be governed with one and the &s;ame kind of govern|ment throughout the world, yet it no wayes followes, from hence, that therefore that government which is more generally e&s;tabli&s;hed and practi&s;ed in the world, &s;hould be that &s;pecificall Government whereby it ought to be governed. If this con&s;equence were good, it would highly befreind the Government Pontifician, but di&s;&s;olve and de&s;troy the Government Presbyterian; becau&s;e the Pontifican Go|vernment,
<PB N="100" REF="53"> is (or at lea&s;t not long &s;ince was) far more Oecumenicall, and comprehen&s;ive, then the Presbyterian either is, or is like to be. Therefore in framing this con&s;equence, the man hath given &s;en|tence again&s;t him&s;elfe and his owne beloved opinion touching Church-Di&s;cipline; and hath put a &s;word into the Popes hand to &s;mite as well the Con&s;i&s;torian, as the Congregationall Government. And,</P>
<P>Secondly, &s;uppo&s;e the Government more generally practi&s;ed in the world, be that very kind of Government, wherby the Churches of Chri&s;t ought to be governed, yet except this Government both as touching the lawfulne&s;&s;e and nece&s;&s;itie of it, be &s;ufficiently cleered to the judgments and con&s;ciences of tho&s;e, from whom &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion to it is required, (an honour whereunto <HI>A. S.</HI> his Government hath not yet been preferred by all his great freinds) they ought not to be &s;courged with his &s;corpions, if they demurre a while about their &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion thereunto; and in the meane &s;ea&s;on, de&s;ire to live under &s;uch a Government, wherin they have double and treble &s;atisfaction both in point of lawfulne&s;&s;e and nece&s;&s;ity, above the other. Thirdly and la&s;tly, though unity and uniformity in Government be very fitting and nece&s;&s;ary throughout the Churches of Chri&s;t, yet that the &s;ervants of Chri&s;t &s;hould fall foule one upon another, and the grea|ter eate up the le&s;&s;e for this uniformity &s;ake, is no wayes nece&s;&s;arie; e&s;pecially con&s;idering that God (as hath been formerly &s;hewed) hath provided other means farre more gracious, honourable and proper, for the bringing of the ble&s;&s;edne&s;&s;e of this uniformitie upon his Churches in due time. So that if there be any thing in this Rea|&s;on, it is altogether with, and not at all again&s;t the Apologi&s;ts.</P>
<P>To your fifteenth, we an&s;wer, fir&s;t, be it &s;uppo&s;ed, (which yet we <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 15. Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> &s;hall pre&s;ently oppo&s;e) that <HI>neither Chri&s;t, nor his Apo&s;tles ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in the Church;</HI> yet did he or they ever grant a power to a major part of profe&s;&s;ors in a Kingdom or Nation, to grind the faces of their Brethren <HI>partakers of like precious faith</HI> and holine&s;&s;e with them, either becau&s;e they could not in all points jump with them in their judgements, or becau&s;e they endea|voured to keep a good con&s;cience towards God, for following the ducture and guidance of their pre&s;ent light? If you will <HI>take with|out asking that,</HI> which <HI>neither Chri&s;t nor his Apo&s;tles ever granted</HI> you, you may verie well bear it at the hands of your Brethren, if they humbly <HI>&s;ue</HI> and intreat for what they never granted; e&s;pecially con|&s;idering that that which you <HI>take</HI> is imperious and high, tending
<PB N="101" REF="53"> to the annoyance and trouble of many; whereas that which they <HI>&s;ue</HI> for, is moderate and lowe, onely a peaceable &s;tanding among&s;t you, that they may be able to do good unto many. Secondly, if <HI>nei|ther Chri&s;t nor his Apo&s;tles</HI> (as you &s;ay) <HI>ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in his Church,</HI> how come you and your Govern|ment to be <HI>tolerated,</HI> your Government being &s;pecifically diver&s;ified from that of the Papacie (as is before ob&s;erved) which is more gene|rall and exten&s;ive then yours? If you have not a toleration for your Government, either from Chri&s;t or his Apo&s;tles, we are doubtfull from whom, or whence you have it? Thirdly, do you not by this rea&s;on build up the wals of Babylon, and &s;trengthen the Papi&s;ts in their bloodie errour, again&s;t the reformed Churches, upon which they look as &s;chi&s;maticall from their Mother, and in that re&s;pect think them no wayes fit to be <HI>tolerated,</HI> but to be &s;uppre&s;&s;ed both in their Doctrine and Government, yea and in ca&s;e they will not be reduced to the principles of Rome, to be wholly extirpated and rooted out of the world? What can be &s;poken more to the heart of &s;uch apprehen&s;ions, and coun&s;els and re&s;olutions as the&s;e, then that <HI>neither Chri&s;t nor his Apo&s;tles ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in the Church?</HI> Fourthly, whereas you &s;ay, that they <HI>granted no toleration to divers Sects,</HI> do you not imply, that they did grant a toleration to &s;ome <HI>one Sect</HI> at lea&s;t, if not to more. And how know you whether the <HI>Sect</HI> of Apologi&s;me (in your improperating &s;tile) be not that Sect, or one of tho&s;e Sects, to which Chri&s;t and his Apo&s;tles (it &s;eems) granted a toleration? Is it not (I appeal to your judgement and con&s;cience) as like to be this as any other? Fiftly, we willingly grant your conclu&s;ion in this Rea&s;on, <HI>&s;en&s;u &s;ano;</HI> that there is no rea&s;on why the Apologi&s;ts &s;hould <HI>&s;ue for a Toleration,</HI> no nor yet properly, why they &s;hould be <HI>tolerated, (toleration</HI> in proprie|tie of &s;ignification, as was formerly noted, being <HI>rei malae,</HI> appliable onely to that which is evill) but rather why they &s;hould be counte|nanced and incouraged. Therefore if you think that they &s;hall &s;in in <HI>&s;uing for a toleration,</HI> you &s;hall do well to prevent that &s;in in them (and perhaps &s;hall withall prevent a greater of your own) by de|claring them per&s;ons worthy not of a <HI>Toleration,</HI> but of incourage|ment; or at lea&s;t by procuring them a Toleration, that they may not be put upon the tentation of &s;uing for it. But &s;ixtly and la&s;tly, to the main frame of your Rea&s;on: what do you think of, <HI>Sinite utrunque cre&s;cere, Let both grow together untill the harve&s;t.</HI> Matth. 13. 30. Is not here the <HI>toleration granted,</HI> which you deny to be <HI>granted? Non</HI>
<PB N="102" REF="54"> <HI>lac lacti, nec ovum ovo &s;imilius;</HI> If it be not this <HI>Toleration,</HI> certainly it is &s;omewhat as like to it, as like may be. You know who the Hou&s;|holder is, that gave this order, laid this re&s;traint upon his &s;ervants; otherwi&s;e the 37. ver&s;e will inform you. And who do you think &s;hould be meant, by <HI>the tares?</HI> You will not &s;ay, the good &s;ons of the Church, at lea&s;t &s;o acknowledged by their Mother. You cannot &s;ay (with rea&s;on) the loo&s;e, vicious, &amp;c. morally di&s;ordered &s;ons of the Church, becau&s;e the&s;e were &s;own in the field, before the <HI>Hou&s;holder &s;ew that good &s;eed</HI> therein (&s;poken of, <HI>v.</HI> 24. and 38.) whereas <HI>the tares,</HI> which mu&s;t be let <HI>grow to the harve&s;t,</HI> are expre&s;ly &s;aid to have been &s;own after, <HI>v.</HI> 25. And be&s;ides &s;uch wicked and vicious per&s;ons as the&s;e, at lea&s;t as the danger and degree of their wickedne&s;&s;e may be, ought to be gathered out of the State (and then they cannot <HI>grow in the field till harve&s;t)</HI> by the hand of the Civill Magi&s;trate. Therefore thirdly (and la&s;tly) you mu&s;t by <HI>the tares,</HI> of nece&s;&s;itie under&s;tand, &s;uch in the Church, as you call <HI>Sectaries, Schi&s;matiques, Heretiques,</HI> &s;uch as corrupt the puritie of the Doctrine of the Go&s;pel, by erro|neous and fal&s;e opinions, or at lea&s;t are look'd upon by the greater part of the re&s;pective Churches of Chri&s;t, as &s;uch. Which yet ap|pears further, by the rea&s;on which the Hou&s;holder renders unto his &s;ervants, why he would not have them pluck'd up, but grow untill the harve&s;t: <HI>lea&s;t</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>while&s;t ye go about to gather the tares, ye pluck up the wheat al&s;o.</HI> There is no danger of hurting or plucking up the wheat, 1. the children of the Kingdom, <HI>v.</HI> 38. by puni&s;hing civill or morall mi&s;demeanors of men; but if Magi&s;trates or others &s;hall be bu&s;ie about plucking up Sectaries, Heretiques, &amp;c. they will be in continuall danger <HI>of plucking up the wheat.</HI> Fir&s;t, becau&s;e many truly pious and con&s;cientious men, <HI>children of the Kingdom,</HI> may &s;oon be drawn in to &s;ome unwarrantable &s;ect and opinion: and &s;econdly, &s;uch opinions as are &s;entenced by the generalitie or major part of a Church, as erronious or hereticall, and &s;o expo&s;e tho&s;e that hold them to the reproachfull names, of &s;ectaries, &s;chi&s;matiques, here|tiques, verie often fall out to be the &s;acred truths of God, and the per&s;ons holding them forth unto the world, the be&s;t and faithfulle&s;t of his &s;ervants.</P>
<P>For your &s;ixteenth Rea&s;on, it concerneth others, more then the Apologi&s;ts, to an&s;wer; the frame of it being an indignabund rela|tion <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 16. Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> (whether true or no, <HI>caveat Lector)</HI> of what hard mea&s;ure the New-Englanders offered to &s;ome that de&s;ired to &s;it down among&s;t them, <HI>becau&s;e they differed a little from them in point of Di&s;cipline.</HI> The
<PB N="103" REF="54"> men here charged, are of age to &s;peak for them&s;elves; and be&s;ides, want no abilities otherwi&s;e. I make no que&s;tion, but if they had but the correcting of <HI>A. S.</HI> his Relation, they would be able to make more rea&s;on and equity of it, then without &s;ome correction or other, I am able to do. But (to leave our Brethren in New-England to their own Apologie) I would fain know of <HI>A. S.</HI> what he means to do with his &s;torie; or how he intends to bring it under contribution to his cau&s;e. For fir&s;t, he doth not onely not approve of tho&s;e pro|ceedings, which he relateth, but is very pa&s;&s;ionate and intemperate in the very relation.</P>
<Q>Delicti fies idem reprehen&s;or, &amp; Author?</Q>
<P>Is the man &s;o full of the &s;pirit of reprehen&s;ion again&s;t &s;uch practi&s;es, and yet &s;o full of the &s;pirit of imitation al&s;o? Or what? is his de&s;ire &s;o great, to appropriate or ingro&s;&s;e the power and practi&s;e of per|&s;ecuting for difference in Religion, to him&s;elf and his own partie, that he is not able patiently to bear the &s;ight of either in others? If your Brethren in New-England &s;tumbled at the &s;tone you &s;peak of, <HI>per&s;ecuted</HI> (as yov &s;ay) tho&s;e that <HI>were approved by them&s;elves both for their life and Doctrine, meerly becau&s;e they differed a little from them in point of Di&s;cipline,</HI> you have a faire warning; take heed that you do not &s;tumble at the &s;ame &s;tone al&s;o. They (it's like) ju&s;tified them&s;elves in them&s;elves, in tho&s;e proceedings, though they did not &s;o in the &s;ight of God; but if you, having condemned them in what they did, &s;hall neverthele&s;&s;e run the &s;ame cour&s;e, you will be both <GAP LANG="grc" DESC="foreign" RESP="OXF"> and <GAP LANG="grc" DESC="foreign" RESP="OXF"> both &s;elf-condemned, and God-condemned al&s;o, and &s;o have no cloak nor &s;helter for your &s;in.</P>
<P>But you think it no wayes rea&s;onable, that the Apologi&s;ts, being of the <HI>&s;ame profe&s;&s;ion</HI> (as you &s;peak) <HI>&s;hould be &s;uiters for a Toleration in old England.</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, if you &s;peak with reference to tho&s;e proceedings immediately before reported by you, you are more of the <HI>&s;ame profe&s;&s;ion</HI> with them, then your Brethren the Apologi&s;ts. The&s;e do not profe&s;&s;e per&s;ecution <HI>meerly for a little difference in point of Di&s;cipline;</HI> the world knows who they are that do little le&s;&s;e. Se|condly, what though men of the &s;ame <HI>profe&s;&s;ion</HI> with them, mi&s;carri|ed for want of &s;uch light, as &s;hould have directed them in a better way; mu&s;t this be a band of con&s;cience upon them, to <HI>bowe down their backs</HI> without any more ado, and to &s;uffer Presbyterian Great|ne&s;&s;e to <HI>go over them, as the &s;tones in the &s;treet?</HI> Nay, thirdly, they have the more rea&s;on and nece&s;&s;itie, in regard of &s;uch a mi&s;carriage of
<PB N="104" REF="55"> their Brethren, <HI>to &s;ue for a Toleration</HI> here; becau&s;e by that mi&s;car|riage of theirs, they are awakened to expect and fear yet far harder mea&s;ure from you and your partie, if they do not be&s;tir them&s;elves by &s;ome means or other to prevent it. He that feels the &s;mart of rods to be grievous, hath the more rea&s;on, not the le&s;&s;e, to take heed of being beaten with &s;corpions. Fourthly (and la&s;tly) why &s;hould you any wayes be again&s;t your Brethren &s;uing for a Toleration, when as there lies a nece&s;&s;itie upon you to grant it or con&s;ent to it, unle&s;&s;e you mean to &s;teere that New-England cour&s;e, which you have with &s;o high a hand of indignation conte&s;ted with, in this ve|rie Rea&s;on. Except (haply) you have this ingenuous reach in it, for your reputations, that you would <HI>hone&s;tis precibus occurrere,</HI> pre|vent all hone&s;t and rea&s;onable reque&s;ts with the early forwardne&s;&s;e of your bountie. If I could rea&s;onably think this to be your de&s;igne, I would &s;eriou&s;ly per&s;wade with the Apologi&s;ts to wave their &s;uit for a Toleration, and &s;o to gratifie you with an honourable oppor|tunitie of doing good, before you were provoked by any mans &s;uit or motion to it.</P>
<P>But men that are &s;ubject to fears, are &s;eldome &s;ons of bountie. The bottome (it &s;eems) of all that <HI>A. S.</HI> hath pleaded throughout his Di&s;cour&s;e, again&s;t the Toleration of Apologi&s;me, is a &s;olemn <HI>fear</HI> that po&s;&s;e&s;&s;eth him of being <HI>&s;ent</HI> he and <HI>all</HI> his partie <HI>into &s;ome I&s;le of Dogs,</HI> if the Congregationall men <HI>had</HI> but <HI>the upper hand over them. Omne timidum, natura querulum.</HI> But, I can hardly beleeve that the man is really afraid of what he here pretendeth; (in which ca&s;e he were rather to be pitied, then roundly dealt with) fir&s;t, becau&s;e him|&s;elf confe&s;&s;eth, that &s;ome of <HI>his Brethren</HI> hold, that <HI>all &s;ects and opinions</HI> are to be <HI>tolerated,</HI> p. 62. So that in ca&s;e the&s;e men &s;hould have the upper hand, he is a&s;&s;ured of a partie at lea&s;t among them, to &s;ecure him and his in that kind. Secondly, he confe&s;&s;eth again and again, that his Brethren are <HI>very pious and holy men;</HI> and therefore certainly will not be &s;o dogged, as to &s;end him and his into any <HI>I&s;le of Dogs.</HI> Thirdly, a poore Toleration is as farre from a &s;uperioritie of power, as rags are from the robe, or the dunghill from the throne. Fourth|ly, I do not think that he knows any &s;uch I&s;le as he &s;peaks of, where|into he fears to be &s;ent by the men of his indignation. Fiftly, and la&s;tly, if he &s;hould be &s;ent into &s;ome <HI>I&s;le of Dogs,</HI> the &s;oyl and climate might probably agree well with him; he hath learned (it &s;eems) to bark and bite too, again&s;t his &s;ending thither.</P>
<P>To conclude, for this Rea&s;on: whereas feare indeed ordinarily
<PB N="105" REF="55"> makes men cruell, it is much to be feared, <HI>A. S.</HI> only pretends feare, that &s;o he may have a colour to be cruell.</P>
<P>To his 17^t^h^. Rea&s;on, we An&s;wer. Fir&s;t that the <HI>Scripture doth not</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 17. Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> <HI>forbid, all,</HI> nor any <HI>&s;uch Toleration,</HI> as the Apologi&s;ts de&s;ire. This was &s;ufficiently &s;hewed before in our An&s;wer to the fifteenth Rea&s;on. His proofe from Revel. 2. 20. holds no intelligence at all with his purpo&s;e; yea it makes &s;ore again&s;t him&s;elfe and his Synedrion. For fir&s;t by the toleration or <HI>&s;uffering of Iezabel,</HI> which is there charged as a finfull neglect, upon the Church of Thyatira, is not meant a civill or &s;tate Toleration, but an Eccle&s;ia&s;tique or Church toleration. This Church &s;uffered fal&s;e Doctrines to be taught in her very bo&s;ome, and her members to be corrupted and endangered thereby, from day to day, without laying it to heart (being a matter of that &s;ad con&s;equence) and without calling tho&s;e to an accompt that were the &s;owers of &s;uch teares, broachers and &s;preaders of &s;uch opinions; yea without u&s;ing any meanes, to have the truth &s;oundly taught in oppo&s;ition to &s;uch Doctrines. Both Pa&s;tor and people (it &s;eemes) <HI>&s;lept</HI> together, whil&s;t the <HI>envious man,</HI> by his Agent and factre&s;&s;e Iezabel, <HI>&s;owed the&s;e tares</HI> in their field. Such a Toleration as this we formerly &s;hewed to be &s;infull; and the Apologi&s;ts are as much again&s;t it as you; &s;o farre are they from de&s;iring it, or &s;ueing for it. They de&s;ire a Toleration for them&s;elves and their Churches in the civill &s;tate; not that the errours which &s;pring up in their Churches, &s;hould be &s;uffered to fret like gangrens, without being oppo&s;ed by them, or be protected by the State. Secondly whereas that particular Church alone is charged by Chri&s;t, with this toleration or <HI>&s;ufferance of Iezabell,</HI> and not any more Churches, whether neighbors or not neighbors to his, nor any <HI>combined Elder&s;hip,</HI> or <HI>&s;tate Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall,</HI> made of the con|&s;ociation of the &s;even Churches, much le&s;&s;e any &s;tate civill, evident it is that the care and power of redre&s;&s;ing emergeing enormites or evills in a Church in every kind, is committed by Chri&s;t to every particular Church re&s;pectively, within in it &s;elfe. And &s;o <HI>they that trouble the Church</HI> mu&s;t (as you &s;ay) <HI>be cut off.</HI> But by whom? not by the civill magi&s;trate (if the trouble be &s;pirituall) nor by the combined Elder&s;hip, but by the particular Church it &s;elfe, which is troubled by them, in ca&s;e there be no remedy otherwi&s;e. Secondly when you &s;ay, that <HI>there mu&s;t be no &s;uch &s;peeches among vs, as I am of Paul, I of Apollo's</HI> &amp;c. <HI>nor that &s;ome are Calvinians, &s;ome Independenters, &s;ome Browni&s;ts</HI> &amp;c. and againe <HI>that we mu&s;t all be Chri&s;ts, we mu&s;t all think and &s;peak the &s;ame thing, otherwi&s;e men are carnall</HI> &amp;c. (with &s;ome other good words to
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<PB N="106" REF="57"> like purpo&s;e) we joyn heart and hand with you in all the&s;e things, and are readie to contribute the be&s;t of our endeavours, unto yours, if ye will &s;uffer us, to make the <HI>tabernacle</HI> of God among&s;t us <HI>accord|ing to this pattern</HI> which you &s;hew unto us. Such expre&s;&s;ions, <HI>I am of Paul, I of Apollos,</HI> &amp;c. together with the names of <HI>Calvinians, Indepen|dents, Browni&s;ts,</HI> &amp;c. are as untuneable in our eares, as in yours, &amp;c. But,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, every man that &s;aith, <HI>I am of Paul,</HI> or, <HI>I am of Apollos,</HI> is not to be taught by <HI>thorns and briars,</HI> (as <HI>Gedeon</HI> taught the men of Suc|coth) to &s;peak better, by fineing, impri&s;onning, unchurching, or the like; but by &s;oundne&s;&s;e of conviction, and whole&s;omne&s;&s;e of in|&s;truction from the word of God. The Germans have a &s;aying, that <HI>etiam in latrone puniendo pote&s;t peccari;</HI> A may may &s;in in pu|ni&s;hing him that mo&s;t of all de&s;erves it. It is not enough for us to corre&s;pond with God in his ends, but we mu&s;t keep as clo&s;e to him in his means al&s;o. Secondly, whereas you &s;ay, <HI>we must all be Chri&s;ts;</HI> &s;urely there is none of tho&s;e Sects you &s;peak of, but are wil|ling to joyn with you in being his, and in being called by his Name, rather then by any other. We fear, the&s;e unhappie &s;ounds, of <HI>Inde|pendents, Browni&s;ts, Anabapti&s;ts,</HI> &amp;c. are more frequently made of your breath, then of the breath of any other &s;ort, or &s;ect of men among&s;t us. Thirdly, whereas you adde, <HI>Neither hath the Church of God a cu&s;tome to be contentious;</HI> the Apo&s;tle indeed &s;aith, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 11. 16. <HI>that the Churches of God have no &s;uch cu&s;tome;</HI> but he doth not &s;ay, that the&s;e <HI>Churches of God</HI> had any cu&s;tome, to erect a Presbyterian throne, or <HI>a combined elder&s;hip</HI> among&s;t them, to keep them from contenti|ons. Fourthly, whereas you tell us, that <HI>neither permitteth the Apo&s;tle Schi&s;mes;</HI> we tell you, that we have already told you (and that once and again) both in what &s;ence he permitteth them, and in what not, and have &s;hewed you our concurrence with him in both. Fift|ly (and la&s;tly) in that you tell us, that <HI>we mu&s;t not quit our mutuall meetings, as others do, and as mu&s;t</HI> (you &s;ay) <HI>be done in a publique Tolera|tion,</HI> we neither well under&s;tand the &s;ence of your words, much le&s;&s;e any purport in them to your purpo&s;e. We do not know what <HI>quit|ting</HI> of <HI>meetings</HI> there is like to be more under a <HI>publique toleration,</HI> then is for the pre&s;ent.</P>
<P>Your eighteenth Rea&s;on is &s;o Atheologicall, and unworthie your <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 18 Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> cau&s;e, that the very naming of it might be An&s;wer &s;ufficient. <HI>A tole|ration</HI> (you &s;ay) <HI>cannot but expo&s;e your Churches unto the calumnies of Pa|pi&s;ts, who evermore object unto Prote&s;tants the innumerable number of the&s;e</HI>
<PB N="107" REF="57"> <HI>Sects, whereas they pretend to be nothing but one Church.</HI> Will you redeem your &s;elf out of the hand of Popi&s;h calumnies, by &s;ymbolizing with them? will you turn Turk, that you may not &s;uffer Turki&s;h in&s;o|lencies and thraldome? Surely you forget your argument in&s;i&s;ted upon in your eleventh Rea&s;on: There you make <HI>&s;ymbolizing</HI> with Papi&s;ts, a rea&s;on again&s;t your Brethren and their Opinion, why they &s;hould not be tolerated; and here you make a defect or want in them of &s;ymbolizing with them, a rea&s;on likewi&s;e why they &s;hould not be tolerated. It &s;eems contradictions, incon&s;i&s;tencies, imperti|nences, unintelligibilities, &s;ence, non-&s;ence, any thing, nothing, will &s;erve to make rea&s;ons again&s;t the poore Independenters (as you call them) why they mu&s;t not be tolerated. Was not the con&s;ideration of your own, <HI>p.</HI> 14. <HI>that the Devill evermore a&s;&s;aults more the true Church, the true Doctrine, and true Di&s;cipline, then the corrupted Church, her corrupt|ed Doctrine or Di&s;cipline,</HI> a farre better &s;anctuarie for your Churches again&s;t tho&s;e Popi&s;h calumnies you &s;peak of, then a corre&s;pondence with them, <HI>to keep you in unitie and conformitie?</HI> But this Rea&s;on we have an&s;wered formerly.</P>
<P>Your ninteenth Rea&s;on, is very conci&s;e. In this you onely &s;ay, <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 19. Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> that <HI>of &s;uch a Toleration follows all you formerly deduced out of Independen|cie.</HI> And &s;o it may without putting the world to much damage, or &s;orrow. When we ca&s;t up your <HI>deductions</HI> of inconveniences <HI>out of In|dependencie,</HI> we found them counterballanced to the height with the exits from Presbytery. If you poy&s;e your wallet wel, you wil the end that hangs at your back the heavier. But for An&s;wer to this Rea&s;on, I refer the Reader to the former Chapter.</P>
<P>His twentieth Rea&s;on, is &s;omewhat of a differing &s;trein from the <NOTE PLACE="marg">His 20. Rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE> re&s;t. The ground and bottome of it &s;eems to be, a de&s;ire of a plau&s;i|ble in&s;inuation with the A&s;&s;embly, under a pretence of jealou&s;ie over them, le&s;t they &s;hould &s;uffer in point of honour, in ca&s;e his Bre|thren &s;hould obtain a Toleration. But fir&s;t, good <HI>A. S.</HI> why mu&s;t it needs be thought, in ca&s;e <HI>it &s;hould be granted</HI> unto them, <HI>that it was extorted by force of Rea&s;on,</HI> or <HI>that all the A&s;&s;embly were not &acirc;ble to an&s;wer your Brethren?</HI> This &s;ugge&s;tion &s;mels of wor&s;e blood about the heart, then all the Rea&s;ons hitherto; Fearing (it &s;eems) that all ingage|ments upon the A&s;&s;embly in point of con&s;cience to deny the Apolo|gi&s;ts a Toleration, might fail, and prove ineffectuall that way; he &s;eeks here to ingage them in point of honour, by way of re&s;erve; telling them (in effect) that how&s;oever their con&s;ciences might fa|vour the Independenters in point of Toleration, yet their credits and reputations would &s;uffer by it. Yet let the &s;ugge&s;tion be but a
<PB N="108" REF="58"> little look'd into, and it will be found to reflect no great matter of grace or commendation upon the A&s;&s;embly it &s;elf. For if no favour or courte&s;ie can be <HI>thought</HI> to come from them, but that which is <HI>ex|torted by rea&s;on,</HI> and the deniall whereof they <HI>cannot an&s;wer,</HI> it is a &s;igne that they are not <GAP LANG="grc" DESC="foreign" RESP="OXF">. <HI>i. ea&s;ie to be intreated, fall of mercie and good fruits,</HI> which yet the holy Gho&s;t makes the &s;tanding characters of <HI>that wi&s;dom which is from above.</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Iam. 3 17.</NOTE></P>
<P>Whereas he addes, <HI>that their opinion and demands are again&s;t all rea|&s;on,</HI> and that <HI>&s;undry of them could not deny</HI> as much, <HI>and had nothing to &s;ay, but that it was Gods Ordinance.</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that, what <HI>A. S.</HI> his &s;tandart is whereby he mea&s;ures <HI>rea&s;on,</HI> we are not &s;o well acquainted with him, as to know; but according to ours, this a&s;&s;ertion of his opens &s;even times wider <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> then either the <HI>opinion</HI> or <HI>de|mands</HI> of his Antagoni&s;ts. Fir&s;t, for their opinion, we believe that &s;omewhat more then non-&s;en&s;e or irrationalities, hath been argued by them&s;elves in the A&s;&s;embly for it: Is it like, <HI>that very learned men, and of abilities to di&s;pute their opinion in any A&s;&s;embly in Europe</HI> (which are <HI>A. S.</HI> owne letters of recommendation on their behalf) &s;hould ri&s;e up to defend an opinion that is contrary <HI>to all rea&s;on?</HI> And &s;omewhat like unto rea&s;on (at lea&s;t &s;o called, among&s;t our vulgar apprehen&s;i|ons) hath bin &s;aid for it in the preceding part of this Di&s;cour&s;e. And &s;econdly, for their Demands; though <HI>A. S.</HI> doth not inform us what they are, or wherein that fiery conte&s;tation <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> which he findes in them con&s;i&s;ts, yet we &s;uppo&s;e, he means their <HI>&s;ueing for a Tole|ration,</HI> that high mi&s;demeanor, for which he hath judged them now the&s;e ten times. Was it, or is it, or would it be <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> for the poor Prote&s;tant Churches in <HI>France,</HI> to &s;ue for a <HI>Toleration</HI> in the &s;tate, if it were not granted unto them without &s;ueing? Or is it not much more agreeable <HI>to rea&s;on,</HI> that Prote&s;tant Churches &s;hould be <HI>tolerated</HI> in a Prote&s;tant State, then in a State Pontificiall; e&s;pecially in &s;uch a Prote&s;tant State, of which they have &s;o eminently de&s;erved, as the Apologi&s;ts and their Churches, and men of their judgement have done of this, as was briefly touched in the beginning of this Chap|ter? Or is it <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> that tho&s;e per&s;ons in the low-countries between who&s;e judgements there is that known variety of differen|ces in matters of Religion, and which concerne the wor&s;hip of God, being not able &s;o well to accommodate them&s;elves for livelihood and &s;ub&s;i&s;tence in any other State, with the freedome of their con|&s;ciences, &s;hould de&s;ire a <HI>Toleration</HI> in that? Suppo&s;e tho&s;e men of your judgement, of whom you &s;peake, p. 10. who were (as you there &s;ay) <HI>condemned to death for their Di&s;cipline, ready to be executed, and were after|wards</HI>
<PB N="109" REF="58"> <HI>exiled into forraigne countries;</HI> Suppo&s;e (I &s;ay) the&s;e men had de|&s;ired a <HI>Toleration</HI> in their own countrey, of tho&s;e who thus unrea|&s;onably dealt with them, had they violated all Rules and Principles of <HI>Rea&s;on</HI> by &s;uch a de&s;ire? But the truth is, that the a&s;&s;ertion is &s;o notoriou&s;ly <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> that it is &s;carce con&s;i&s;tent with rea&s;on to be&s;tow &s;o much pen in an&s;wer to it. There is but one only &s;uppo&s;iti|on to make either rea&s;on or truth of it: if it be granted, it may pa&s;&s;e for both. If the de&s;ires of &s;ome Presbyterians be <HI>All rea&s;on,</HI> and no|thing rea&s;on but they, then both the Opinion and Demands of the Apologi&s;ts, mu&s;t be acknowledged to be again&s;t all Rea&s;on. But otherwi&s;e I know no principle or rule of rea&s;on at all &s;o much as di&s;|courtefied by either.</P>
<P>Secondly, whereas you &s;ay, that <HI>&s;undrie of them&s;elves could not deny it, and had nothing to &s;ay, &amp;c.</HI> fir&s;t, certain I am that &s;ome of them have ab&s;olutely denied any &s;uch confe&s;&s;ion. Secondly, the acknow|ledgement it &s;elf looks no more like any of the re&s;t, then a meer fi|ction doth the Relator. I beleeve that upon inquirie it will be found a mi&s;pri&s;ion of truth. For doth it not &s;ound aloud incredibilitie, that men of &s;ufficient <HI>abilities to di&s;pute their opinion in any A&s;&s;embly in Europe,</HI> &s;hould confe&s;&s;e their <HI>Opinion and Demands to be again&s;t all rea&s;on?</HI> But &s;uch &s;tones as the&s;e are fit for <HI>A. S.</HI> his building.</P>
<P>Thirdly, whereas you &s;ay, that they <HI>could never &s;hew</HI> (their opinion) <HI>out of Gods Word,</HI> we an&s;wer, that they have often <HI>&s;hewed</HI> it; but God and men (it &s;eems) are not yet agreed to have it &s;o generally &s;een, as is to be de&s;ired: but our hope is, that the agreement will be conclu|ded between them in due time.</P>
<P>Fourthly, and la&s;tly, you conclude this rea&s;on, with this underta|king, that <HI>if it</HI> (your brethens opinion we &s;uppo&s;e you mean; though it's hard both here, and in twenty places more to know your mean|ing cleerly) <HI>be refu&s;ed, it will help to confirme the Churches and the people in truth.</HI> We de&s;ire to know <HI>in truth</HI> of what? It will indeed <HI>confirme</HI> both marvellou&s;ly, in the truth of Presbyterian fa&s;tne&s;&s;e to their owne cau&s;e; but in what other <HI>truth</HI> it &s;hould <HI>confirm</HI> either the one or the other, we wait for our intelligence from you to know.</P>
<P>Your 21^t^h and la&s;t Rea&s;on (&s;ave onely tho&s;e which you &s;ay you <NOTE PLACE="marg">His la&s;t Rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE> <HI>omit)</HI> is but a &s;lip of your nineteenth, being &s;omewhat that follows out of Independency. But here you tell us, that the <HI>Government</HI> &s;o <HI>cal|led, cannot but overthrow all &s;ort of Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Government; Is</HI> Saul <HI>al&s;o among the Prophets? Haec verba loquentis ab ore, Gaudens Arripio, &amp; &s;ta|pefactus numine, adoro.</HI> I joy over the&s;e words, and reverence them for what I conceive to be of God in them. Wee know who prophefied,
<PB N="110" REF="59"> when he was not aware of it. Indeed, by the beauty and perfect con|&s;onancy of this Government with the Word of God, it may very rea|&s;onably (yea, and upon higher terms then of rea&s;on) be thought that in time, <HI>it cannot but overthrow all &s;ort of Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Government,</HI> and &s;tand up it &s;elf in their &s;tead. <HI>Faxit Deus, &amp; fe&s;tinet.</HI></P>
<P>But that which you adde in the clo&s;e of this Rea&s;on, plainly &s;heweth, that you had no mind to prophecie, though God had, or might have by you: for here you &s;ay, <HI>that this order by nece&s;&s;ary con&s;e|quence will breed all &s;ort of di&s;order.</HI> No, fir&s;t it will not breed the di&s;or|der of oppre&s;&s;ing con&s;ciencious men, for con&s;cience &s;ake: nor &s;econd|ly, of di&s;couraging men from &s;earching the Scriptures more narrow|ly; nor thirdly, of having recour&s;e unto the world for the &s;etting up of the Government of Chri&s;ts Kingdome; nor fourthly, of making men walk &s;undry miles for what they might have upon as good or better terms at home, be&s;ides a thou&s;and other <HI>di&s;orders,</HI> which the <HI>order</HI> of your Independancy, <HI>will</HI> never breed by any con&s;equence at all, <HI>nece&s;&s;ary,</HI> or <HI>unnece&s;&s;ary,</HI> being of a very &s;overaigne importance to prevent them. And for your premi&s;&s;es (in the body of your Rea&s;on) by which you would fain make the match, between the <HI>order</HI> of In|dependancy, <HI>and all &s;ort of di&s;order,</HI> they are but fal&s;e brokers: The Independent Churches (as you all them) <HI>have no &s;uch cu&s;tome,</HI> as for one to give intertainment or admi&s;&s;ion to any per&s;on, that hath been <HI>cen&s;ured by another,</HI> without the cen&s;ure fir&s;t relaxed by that Church which inflicted it, or without the con&s;ent of this Church. This is their reproach, not their practice.</P>
<P>And thus we &s;ee, that among&s;t <HI>A. S.</HI> his 21. <HI>Rea&s;ons,</HI> there is not one that will &s;tand by their Ma&s;ter, when they are but a little put to it; there is none of them, but with a little per&s;wa&s;ion and debate, will willingly enough con&s;ent to a <HI>Toleration</HI> for the <HI>Apologi&s;ts.</HI> If the Di&s;putant him&s;elf, with his party, were but as tractable as his Rea|&s;ons, then need no more words be made about the bu&s;ine&s;&s;e.</P>
<P>As for his after-birth of Rea&s;ons (p. 65.) &s;ince he profe&s;&s;eth him|&s;elf that he <HI>omits them,</HI> we &s;hall comport with him herein, and <HI>omit</HI> them al&s;o; I hope he will think him&s;elf a debtor to us for this com|pliance It &s;eems that him&s;elf placeth no great confidence in them, in that he mentions them, as if he mentioned them not, and thought them not worthy to be numbred among&s;t his fir&s;t-born. His <HI>Hor&s;emen</HI> (you &s;ee) have bin overcome, and yeelded them&s;elves: his <HI>Infantery</HI> knows the manner of the field, and will, no que&s;tion, &s;urrender with|out incounter. Nor is there any thing for weight or &s;ub&s;tance in this <HI>Taile</HI> of Rea&s;ons, but what hath been broken already in the <HI>Head.</HI></P>
</DIV2>
<TRAILER>FINIS.</TRAILER>
</DIV1>
</BODY>
</TEXT>
</EEBO>
</ETS>
