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<DATE>2014-01-22</DATE>
<RESPSTMT>
<NAME>Olivia Bottum</NAME>
<RESP>MURP</RESP>
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<ITEM>Proofed text and corrected markup.</ITEM>
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<VID>177068</VID>
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<TEXT LANG="eng">
<FRONT>
<DIV1 TYPE="title page">
<PB REF="1">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<P>THE VNREASONABLENESSE <HI>of the &s;eparation.</HI></P>
<P>Made apparant, by an examination of M^r. Iohn&s;ons pretended rea&s;ons, publi&s;hed an. 1608. Wher|by hee laboureth to iu&s;tifie his &s;chisme from the Church A&s;&s;emblies of England.</P>
<Q><BIBL><HI>1. Tim 1.5.6.7.</HI></BIBL>
<P>The end of the commandement is charitie, out of a pure heart, and of a good con&s;cience, and of fayth vnfayned. From which &s;ome hauing &s;wa<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="UOM" EXTENT="2 letters">ed, haue turned a &s;ide vnto vaine Jang|ling, de&s;iring to bee teachers of the Law, vnder&s;tanding neither what they &s;ay, nor wherof they affirme.</P></Q>
<P><HI>AT DORT,</HI> Printed by George Waters. 1614.</P>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="to the reader">
<PB REF="2">
<PB REF="2">
<HEAD>TO THE WELL meaning Reader.</HEAD>
<P>_THink not euill, if thou meane&s;t well, wee intend not to in&s;ult over him that is downe, or to pur&s;ue a man that is flying of him&s;elfe: but to lend him a hand that knoweth not well which way to take. M^r. Iohn&s;on in deed, is rather to bee pitied, then much oppo&s;ed: wee need but &s;tand &s;till as lookers on: hee falleth willingly on his owne &s;word but that his fall may bee a ri&s;ing againe, not onely to him&s;elf, but to others al&s;o, both armour-bearers &amp; followers of his: it was iudged nece&s;&s;arie, to guide them a litle while their heads are dizzy, &amp; bring them fairly from of the bogge they haue &s;tood on.</P>
<P>It is not M^r. John&s;on that is dealt with alone
<PB REF="3">for change the name onely, and put in M^r. Ain&s;|worth, or any &s;uch: them&s;elues will not &s;ay but the rea&s;ons are theirs, and the an&s;wer, to them, as well as to him. Jt may bee that they hauing le&s;&s;e acquain|tance with logicall formes of di&s;pute, will looke for large di&s;cour&s;e, or heaped quotations out of &s;criptu|re. But rea&s;on will tell them, that many words doe rather hide them vntie the knot of a &s;yllogi&s;me: and much quoting may proue &s;ome-thing, but an&s;|wereth not directly to any thing. Now the wrigh|ters meaning was, not to gather proofes, but to poynt at the weakne&s;&s;e of &s;uch as the&s;e men haue ga|thered. Read therfore with vnder&s;tan|ding, and learn a mean betwixt <HI>All</HI> and <HI>Nothing.</HI></P>
</DIV1>
</FRONT>
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="answer">
<PB REF="3">
<HEAD>THE MAINE <HI>CON|clu&s;ion of M^r. John&s;ons Rea&s;ons,</HI> as it is propounded by him&s;elf, is this, <HI>That it is not lawfull to heare or haue any &s;piritual communion wit the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church, A&s;&s;emblies of Englande.</HI></HEAD>
<P>_WHich hee laboureth to proue. 1. By Rea&s;ons (as hee fancieth) drawne from Scripture, and other Te&s;timo|nies.</P>
<P N="2">2. By Argumentes collected from the writeinges of them, whom hee &s;tileth (in di&s;daine) forward Prea|chers. And this hee performeth as far as the remainders of his logick skill will giue him leaue, in moode and figure. But the figure for the mo&s;te part is of his owne &s;hapeing, &s;uch as neuer came forth of any logick Schooles: yet feing the truth hee oppo|&s;eth receaueth noe di&s;advantage therby. I can (for my owne parte) be content that his Syllogi&s;mes &s;til retaine tho&s;e formes and figures, that hee hath put vpon them, and &s;pare the labour of Tran&s;lating them into nue. And &s;o without any further expence of wordes, I come to the Examination of the fir&s;t &s;ort of Rea&s;ons.</P>
<DIV2 TYPE="part">
<PB REF="4">
<HEAD>THE FIRST SORTE OF Rea&s;ons from the Scriptures and other Te&s;timonies Examined.</HEAD>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The fir&s;t Rea&s;on Examined.</HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>All are bound in the wor&s;hip of God to heare and communicate onely with that ministery which Christ hath giuen, and &s;et in his Church for that worke.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the pre&s;ent Ministery of the Church A&s;&s;emblies of En|gland, is not that which Christ hath giuen, and &s;et in his Church for the worke of his Ministery.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore it is not lawfull for any in the wor&s;hip of God to heare or communicate with the pre&s;ent Ministery of the Church A&s;&s;emblies of England.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>Not to contend about the Propo&s;ition. I deny the A&s;|&s;umption: and affirme, That the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies (how &s;oever it may in &s;ome par|ticuler parts of the execution, happely be defectiue in &s;ome places) is, (for the &s;ub&s;tance thereof) that very &s;ame Mini&s;tery which Chri&s;t hath &s;et in his Church for the worke of his mini&s;tery whether it bee the mini&s;tery of tho&s;e which hee calleth the forward Preachers, or of tho&s;e which being qualified according to the true inte~t of the lawe, do &s;ub&s;cribe, and conforme according to the laws of the State.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<PB REF="4">
<HEAD>Fr. Ihon.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Ministery which Christ hath giuen, and &s;et in his Church, is, of Apostles, Prophets, Euangelists, Pastors, and Tea|chers &s;poken of Eph. 4.11.12.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the pre&s;ent Ministery of the Church of England is none of the&s;e &s;poken of Eph. 4.11.12.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therefore it is not the Mini&s;tery which Christ hath giuen and &s;et in his Church.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>The pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church of England (1. of the Church A&s;&s;emblies of England) is the Mini|&s;tery of Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church of England is of Prelates, Priestes and Deacons.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But nether Prelates, Prie&s;tes, nor Deacons of that Church, are Pastors or Teachers &s;poken of Eph. 4.11.12.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therefore it is none of tho&s;e &s;poken of Eph. 4.11.12.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>I denye both Prepo&s;ition and A&s;&s;umption. For 1. Though our Preletes, doe &s;ometimes voluntarily and occa&s;ionnally performe the &s;ame worke and &s;eruice in &s;ome of our Church A&s;&s;emblies, which our ordinary Mini&s;ters doe, yet their Prelaticall or Epi&s;copall office or Mini&s;tery is not the proper Mini&s;tery of any of our Church A&s;&s;emblies. But (in the intent of our lawes) their propre Mini&s;tery con&s;i&s;ts in over&s;eeing the Mini|&s;ters and Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies.</P>
<P N="2"><PB REF="5"> 2. Though &s;ometimes our Mini&s;ters be called PRIESTS and DEACONS yet the MINISTERY vnder tho&s;e names a&s;&s;igned vnto them, and which they exerci&s;e is not the proper and e&s;&s;entiall Mini&s;tery of ei|ther Prie&s;tes or Deacons; but of Pa&s;tors and Teachers: Soe that they are onely in aequivocation, and name, or Metaphorically Prie&s;tes and Deacons: But really Pa|&s;tors and Teachers, and therfore &s;uch Prie&s;ts and Dea|cons, may bee, and indeede and truth are &s;uch Pa&s;tors and Teachers as are &s;poken of Eph. 4.11.12.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Prepo&s;ition is manifest.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>1. The Law of that Church admitteth not any other Mini&s;tery, but that of their Prelacie Priesthoode and Deaconry, re|ceaued amongst them &s;elues or from the Papistes.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>2. Their Con&s;titution is &s;uch as all the Mini&s;ters of that Church must bee Priests or Deacons, and thei&s;e al&s;o either in a Supe|rior degree as the Prelates, Arch. Bi&s;hops Suffraganes &amp;c. or in an inferior, as Par&s;ons, Vicars, Stipendaries, Chaplins.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. It is not nece&s;&s;ary that the Mini&s;tery of a contrey or nation &s;hould be alwaies &s;uch as the law e&s;tabli&s;heth or admitteth: The Mini&s;tery (at lea&s;t in &s;ome places) may be good though the law in generall &s;hould admit and e&s;tabli&s;he &s;uch a one as is bad: as on the contrarye &s;ide, the mini&s;tery may at &s;ome times, and in &s;ome ca&s;es be bad, though the laws admit, &amp; e&s;tabli&s;h neuer &s;oe good; for the Gouernors of Churches and common wealths who haue the di&s;pen&s;ation of lawes, may in their Chri|&s;tian wi&s;edome, and moderation permitt a mini&s;tery in
<PB REF="5">&s;undrie re&s;pects different from that which the laws re|quire; yea and our owne Gouernors in fact haue per|mitted the mini&s;tery of &s;ome, who neuer receiued ordi|nation, either from Papi&s;ts or them&s;elues. And hee can|not be ignorant but that &s;ome by connivencie are yet &s;uffred in &s;ome points of their mini&s;tery to &s;werue from &s;ome ob&s;ervances which the lawes require. The Argu|ment therefore will not follow, from the qualitie of the mini&s;tery, except hee can proue that our Mini&s;tery is in all our A&s;&s;emblies, in all re&s;pects aim&s;werable to our lawes.</P>
<P N="2">2. The <HI>Pree&s;thood</HI> which the law admitteth is not cal|led <HI>Sacerdotius</HI> but <HI>Presbyteratus,</HI> and the Prie&s;ts are not called <HI>Sacerdotes</HI> or &s;acrificers but <HI>Presbyters,</HI> (as &s;uffi|ciently appeares by our orders in Latin.) Therefore the Law doth not intende any true and proper Prie&s;thood but onely boroweth the name to expre&s;&s;e an office of another kinde.</P>
<P N="3">3. To bee Per&s;ons, Vicars, Stipendaries, Chaplins, &amp;c. is not to haue a diuers kind of Prie&s;thood or deaconry, or Mini&s;tery (as hee fooli&s;hly conceiteth:) onely varie|tie of Tytles is giuen to the &s;ame kind of Mini&s;tery, in diuers per&s;ons, in re&s;pect only of a diuers kinde of main|tenaunce or dependance, for <HI>Par&s;ons</HI> are &s;uch as haue all tythes in kinde; <HI>Vicars</HI> &s;uch as haue only the &s;maller Tyths, the other being impropriated by the Magi&s;trate for other purpo&s;es; <HI>Stipendaries</HI> are &s;uch as are maintai|ned by the voluntary Contribution of their Churches or by &s;ome &s;uch like meanes. <HI>Chaplins</HI> are &s;uch as depend vpon great men; The Mini&s;tery of all which (If they duly execute the &s;ame) is one and the &s;ame, even that
<PB REF="6">(and noe other for &s;ub&s;tance) which is proper to true Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;sumption is prooued by their 7. Arguments follo|wing.</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The. 1 Arg.</NOTE></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The Pa&s;tors and Teachers &s;poken of Eph. 4.11. haue their offices, callings, admini&s;tration and mainetenaunce ordained by Chri&s;t in his Te&s;tamente, Eph. 4.8.11.12. and Rom. 12.7.8. Act. 14.23. and 20.17.28. Heb. 5.4. Col. 4.17, 1. The&s;. 5, 12.13.14, 1. Pet. 5.1.2.3. Reu. 2. and 3. and 22.18, 1. Cor. 14.1. and 5.4. and 9.14. and 11.23. and 12.28. Gal. 6.6.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the Prelates, Prie&s;ts &amp; Deacons of the Church of England, haue not their offices, Callings, Mini&s;tration and Mainte|naunce ordained by Chri&s;t in his Testament.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>Ergo. <HI>They are not Pa&s;tors and Teachers &s;poken of Eph. 4.11.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;&s;umption appeareth by their Con&s;titution and practice, in as much as their offices of Prelacie, Prie&s;thood, and Dea|conry, their calling, and entraunce, according to their Ponti|ficall, Their choy&s;e of their people, whoe &s;tand them&s;elues vnder Antichri&s;t, and vn&s;eperated from the worlde, and are noe true vi&s;ible Churches of Chri&s;te. Their Ministration by their owne, and other Popi&s;h Canons, Artes Iniunctions, and booke of Common prayer, their maintenaunce by Tyths, Lord&s;hips &amp;c. were neuer ordained by Chri&s;t for his Mini&s;te|ry, but diriued from Antichri&s;t and his Apo&s;ta&s;ye, as hath bene proued by vs in diuers treati&s;es.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. The Propo&s;ition is not true, except hee vnder&s;tand by offices, Callings, and admini&s;tration, the Sub&s;tantial, or E&s;&s;entiall parts therof. Otherwi&s;e tho&s;e very Pa&s;tors
<PB REF="6">and Teachers ther &s;poken of, may haue diuers acce&s;&s;ary parts of their offices callings and admini&s;tration not or|dayned by Chri&s;t in the newe Te&s;tament. Nether is it true, Yf by maintenaunce hee meane any &s;peciall kind of maintenaunce. It is to be graunted in generall. That Mini&s;ters, are to haue &s;ufficient maintenaunce, and the texts a ledged for that proues noe more, and therfore that which they proue, is nothing to the purpo&s;e; As little to the purpo&s;e are the other Texts, for it will not follow from any force in them, but that there may bee &s;undry accidents cleauing as parts to the offices, calling, and maintenaunce of true Pa&s;tors, and Teachers, which Chri&s;t neuer ordained.</P>
<P N="2">2. Concerning the A&s;&s;umption. 1. whether Prelates haue their office, calling &amp;c. ordained by Chri&s;t is be&s;ids the pre&s;ent que&s;tion. Except M. Iohn&s;on can proue that they are ordinary Mini&s;ters of our Church A&s;&s;emblies; which I am &s;ure hee cannot. 2 Soe many of our Mini|&s;ters (whoe in the booke of ordination are called Prie&s;ts and Deacons) as in all points concerning the &s;ub&s;taunce of their Mini&s;tery, are qualified according to the intent of the lawes, haue their <HI>offices, callings, admini&s;tration and maintenaunce</HI> for the &s;ub&s;taunce therof, ordained by Chri&s;t: And yet I deny not, but ther may be &s;ome acci|dentall defects, or Superfluityes in and a bout them all; yet &s;uch as doe or cannot be proued to de&s;troy the na|ture and &s;ub&s;tance of any of them.</P>
<P N="3">3. All that is brought to proue the A&s;&s;umption is falce, and as much if not more controuer&s;al then the A&s;&s;ump|tion it &s;elfe. For 1. hee can neuer proue, that either the practis of all our Mini&s;ters, is in all things according
<PB REF="7">to that Con&s;titution, or their con&s;titution according to their practis, or either of them an&s;werable to the &s;trict termes of the law in all points. 2. Hee can neuer proue, that either in their con&s;titution, or practis, or by the law they are in proper &s;peech, either Prie&s;ts or Deacons; only hee pre&s;umes them to be &s;uch, becau&s;e through &s;ome libertie of &s;peech v&s;ed in the lawes, they are ter|med &s;uch. Though it &s;hould bee graunted that our peo|ple &s;tand vnder, &s;ome kinde of ob&s;ervances, and offices which in their owne nature, and fir&s;t originall, are in &s;ome kinde Antichri&s;tian; Yet they are of &s;uch a nature, that divers worthy Martyrs of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, that haue with &s;tood Antichri&s;t vnto blood, haue &s;tood vnder as much as wee. And therfore &s;uch a manner of &s;tanding vnder Antichri&s;t, cannot be &s;aid to overthrowe though it may &s;omwhat &s;taine the Mini&s;tery of Chri&s;te. But how&s;oeuer, hee herein &s;hamefully begs the que&s;tion, in the naked affirming, without any prooffe, <HI>That all in this kingdome are vnder Antichri&s;t.</HI></P>
<P N="4">4. Though (for avoyding further controuer&s;ie) that &s;hould be graunted him, that &s;ome parts of our mini|&s;tratio~ <HI>by the Canons,</HI> &amp;c. was neuer ordayned by Chri&s;t. Yet at the lea&s;t the maine principall, and E&s;&s;entiall parts therof performed according to the Canons and booke a fore&s;aid, are ordayned by Chri&s;t; yea by M. Iohn&s;on him&s;elf. Nether hath hee proued or euer can proue, That that part of our mini&s;tration, by our Canons, and booke a fore&s;aid, which Chri&s;t hath not ordayned (If any &s;uch bee) is of that nature and qualitie, that it nece&s;|&s;aryly de&s;troyeth or maketh a nullity of the other parts of their Mini&s;tery, which v&s;e them.</P>
<P N="5"><PB REF="7"> 5. Though Tythes and Lord&s;hippes and manners in perticulers, bee not ordayned by Chri&s;t for the main|tenaunce of Mini&s;ters, yet they are as much ordayned as any other particuler, or &s;peciall kind of maintenaunce, It is the will of Chri&s;t that the Mini&s;ters of the Go&s;pell &s;hould liue of the Go&s;pell. i. &s;hould bee manietanied for their Mini&s;tery &s;ake by them to whome they preach the Go&s;pell. But in what particuler manner that maintay|naunce &s;hould bee ray&s;ed, hee hath noe wher defined and therfore left it to the di&s;cretion of Chri&s;tian Magi|&s;trates or Churches.</P>
<P N="6">6. Wheras for the proofes of theis maine pointes, hee referreth vs to the generall Tytles of certaine Treati&s;es formerly publi&s;hed, hee might as well &s;end vs (as they &s;ay) to &s;eeke a needle in a bottle of hay, and why doth hee not in all other points of this booke, as well as in the is, &s;end vs to the &s;aide Treati&s;es? &s;eeing hee &s;aith no|thing throughout this in effect, that hee hath not all ready &s;aide in &s;ome one or other of his former bookes.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Ioh. pag. 8.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery of Pa&s;tors and Teachers &s;poken of Eph. 4.11.</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The 2. Arg.</NOTE> <HI>is the ordinary and perpetuall Mini&s;tery giuen by Christ to his Church, and &s;uch as the Princes of the Earth nether may nor ever &s;hall bee able to aboli&s;he, &s;eing Chri&s;t hath appoynted it to continue to the end of the worlde.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the Prelacie Pree&s;thood, and Deaconrye of the Church of England is not the ordinarije and perpetuall Mini&s;tery giuen by Chri&s;t to his Church, but &s;uch as the Princes of the Earth may and ought to aboli&s;h out of their Dominions. Rev. 17, 16 1. Tim. 2.2. Rom. 13, 4. with 1. Kin. 23.3. deu. 12.2. P&s;a. 72.1.</HI></ITEM>
<PB REF="8">
<ITEM><HI>Therfore the Pree&s;thood Prelacie and deaconrye of the Church of England is not the Ministery of Pa&s;tors and Teachers &s;po|ken of Eph. 4.11.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>Idenye the A&s;&s;umption. Vnder&s;tanding by <HI>Prelacie Pree&s;thood and deaconrye,</HI> The ordinary Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies again&s;t which hee propounds to him&s;elf to Di&s;pute; And aun&s;wer. That it is the ordina|ry and perpetuall Mini&s;tery, giuen by Chri&s;t to his Church, and &s;uch as the Princes of the Earth are boun|de by Gods Lawes to maintaine and protect by their Authoritie; And if their bee any corruption in and a|boute the &s;ame, which they ought to aboli&s;h that yet they are accidentiall and per&s;onall; and not &s;oe E&s;&s;enti|all as that they doe Di&s;troy the Mini&s;tery.</P>
<P>The places of Scripture anexed to the A&s;&s;umptio~ for the proofe therof, are all abu&s;ed and profaned for not on of them doth any way &s;oe much as colourablye proue either of the Clau&s;es in the A&s;&s;umption, but only they proue in generall, That the Idolatry and Idolatrious Mi|ni&s;tery of Antechri&s;t is to be aboli&s;hed: Soe that the man in his &s;ymplicitie, takes it as graunted; That our Mini&s;te|rye is &s;uch an Idolatrious Mini&s;tery; which is the maine matter in Controuer&s;y, and in effect the generall que|&s;tion of his whole booke.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn. pag: 9.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Office of Pa&s;tors and Teachers ordayned by Chri&s;t in his Te&s;tament,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The. 3. Arg.</NOTE> <HI>are &s;uch as did or could &s;tand, with the offices of the Apo&s;tels, Prophetes and Euangeli&s;ts.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the offices of the Prelates, Prie&s;ts or deacons of the Church
<PB REF="8">of England, are not &s;uch as did, or could &s;tand, with or vn|der the offices of Apostles, Prophets and Euangeli&s;ts: which if any deny, let him &s;hew the Countrary, by the Scriptures; Light hath no fellow&s;hip with darknes; nor Chri&s;t with Anti|chri&s;t. And &s;uppo&s;e the Apo&s;tles were a liue in their Per&s;ons, and were in England, It were worth the knowing, whether they and the ordinances giuen by them, &s;hould giue place to the Prelates, and their Canons, and whether they &s;hould be &s;uffred to preach, &amp;c. without &s;ub&s;cribing, and conforming. Their Canons vrge all vpon paine of Excommunication</HI> ip&s;o facto.</ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore they are not the Pa&s;tors, and Teachers ordained by Chri&s;t in his nue Te&s;tament.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. What a &s;hamele&s;&s;e man is this to affirme, <HI>That our Mini&s;tery nether did nor could &s;tand with the offices of the A|po&s;tles &amp;c.</HI> and for proofe therof bid vs, <HI>If we deny it &s;hew the contrary by Scriptures.</HI> Doth not the burden of prouing by the very lawe of Common Rea&s;on ly vpon the accu|&s;er? If I &s;hould in like manner reproch his Mini&s;tery, &amp; &s;ay it is a Mini&s;tery that &s;tandeth vpon Sorcery, witch croft and Coniuration and for proofe therof bid him, If hee deny it &s;hew the countrary by Scripture, were I not worthy at lea&s;t to bee laughed out of the Scholes. This is a &s;ufficient ju&s;tification of our Mini&s;tery; that &s;uch Malitions aduer&s;aries therof, whoe woulde &s;eeme &s;oe expert in the Scriptures; are no better able by Scrip|ture to proue their vnchri&s;tian accu&s;ation.</P>
<P N="2">2. It is true, <HI>that light hath noe follow&s;hip with darknes, nor Chri&s;t with Antichri&s;t.</HI> Yet ther is no light in men in this
<PB REF="9">life, but it is mingled with &s;ome darkne&s;&s;e; and the be&s;t Chri&s;tians that are, or euer haue bene &s;ince the Apo&s;t|les times, may be infected with &s;ome points of Anti|chri&s;tiani&s;me. Many of the late Martyrs &s;ince the revea|ling of Antichri&s;t, were worthy lights, and renoumed Chri&s;tians, and yet the light of many of them, was mingled with more darkne&s;&s;e, and their Chri&s;tianitie with more Antichri&s;tiani&s;me, then can be founde in our Mini&s;tery.</P>
<P N="3">3. Our Bi&s;hops haue as good rea&s;on, to make the like &s;uppo&s;ition again&s;t him, and as much worthy the inqui|rie that were, if the Apo&s;tles, &amp;c. were a liue now in their owne Per&s;ons where hee liueth, and &s;hould pro|fe&s;&s;e the Church A&s;&s;emblies in Englande to be true Churches, and their Mini&s;tery in generall to be a law|full Mini&s;tery, and their wor&s;hip for &s;ub&s;taunce to bee a true wor&s;hip, whether M. Iohn&s;on and his Church would &s;uffer them to be &s;oe much as priuate members, of their Society, much more to preach, &amp;c.</P>
<P N="4">4. Though our Bi&s;hops &s;hould herein be &s;oe impious as to advance in &s;uch a manner, their owne Authority, and ordinances aboue the Apo&s;tles. Yet what is that to proue that the Pree&s;thoode and Deaconry of the Mi|ni&s;ters of our Church A&s;&s;emblies, (who many of them in theis pointes are meere patients, and e&s;teeme of theis things as burdens) cannot &s;tand with the offices of A|po&s;tles, &amp;c. doth M. Iohn&s;on think that none of our Mini&s;ters in England would &s;uffer the Apo&s;tles to preach in their Cures, without wearing a Surplice, If they might haue their owne wils, or &s;hould this any whit derogate from their Mini&s;tery, that the
<PB REF="9">Bi&s;hops therin would not &s;uffer them to haue their will.</P>
<P N="5">5. It is be&s;ids the pre&s;ent que&s;tion, and a needle&s;&s;e thing to &s;pend time in ju&s;tifying the Canons herein: If the Bi&s;hops therin haue gonne too far, it may &s;eeme to bee the fault of the Par&s;ons, rather then of the Pre|lacie it &s;elfe, and therfore to make and vrge &s;uch Ca|nons, and Traditions as are a fore &s;aide doth not proue, but that for all that, the Prelacie &amp; in of it &s;elfe, might &s;tand well enough with the offices of the Apo&s;tles &amp;c. for tho&s;e offices may of them&s;elues, (If their bee noe other impediment) &s;tand well one with an other, which in the actions therof doe not (but by accident only) one overthrowe or oppugne the other.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn. pag. 9.10.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The offices of true Pa&s;tors,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The 4. Arg.</NOTE> <HI>and Teachers are by the ordinaunce of Chri&s;t &s;et in the Church, and imployd in the Mini&s;tery of the word, Sacraments &amp; Church Gouerment, &s;oe as they may not, with their Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall functions receaue Cyvill offi|ces, and callings, nor take vpon them princely Titles and di|gnities. Eph. 4.11, 1. Pet. 5.1. Rom. 12.2.4. Luk. 12.14. and 22.25. 1. Cor. 12.5.8. 1. Tim. 4.13.15.16. 2. Tim. 2.4.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the officies of Prelates, Prie&s;ts, and Deacons of the Church of England, are not &s;oe, but by their owne Con&s;titution we &s;et in the Church, and imployd in the Mini&s;tery &s;oe as they may al&s;o receaue Cyvill offices and Callings, as to be Iu&s;tices of Peace, &amp;c.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore they are not true Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<PB REF="10">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>Ther are 4. Termes in this Syllogi&s;me, The gro&s;&s;e So|phi&s;terye wherof may appeare by the Explanation ther|of in others wordes.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>True Pa&s;tors &amp; Teachers may not (viz. by Gods lawe) take vpon them Cyvill offices.</ITEM>
<ITEM>The Mini&s;ters of England may (viz. by Mans lawe) take vpon them Cyvill offices.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore they are not true Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>This is the effect of his Argument, &amp; who is &s;o blind, but hee may &s;ee the fallacie therof. And it is as though we &s;hould rea&s;on in the like manner again&s;t their owne Mini&s;tery, thus,</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>True Pa&s;tors &amp; Teachers may not bee Drunckards, Anabapti&s;ts, Famili&s;ts.</ITEM>
<ITEM>The Mini&s;ters of the Seperation at Am&s;terdam may be Drunckards, Anabapti&s;ts, Famili&s;ts.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore they are not true Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>This A&s;&s;umption is as true as the former, for the &s;ame kinde of Authoritie that permits our Mini&s;ters to bee Cyvill Magi&s;trats, doth permit them to bee Drunckards &amp;c. The goverment vnder which they liue, permitteth the one to more, then our &s;tate doeth the other.</P>
<P>But I an&s;wer more particulerly.</P>
<P N="1">1. That by the &s;ame lawe, that our Mini&s;ters <HI>may</HI> take vpon them Cyvill Magi&s;tracie; Any true Pa&s;tors, and Teachers, may take vpon them, the &s;ame Authority, and by the &s;ame lawe that true Pa&s;tors and Teachers, may not take Cyvill Authoritye vpon them our Mini&s;ters may not take the &s;ame vpon them.</P>
<PB REF="10">
<P N="2">2. All our Mini&s;ters may not (noe by the lawes of our State) take vpon them Cyvill Authority; But &s;uch only as are called &s;pecially therto, by the fauours, &amp; grace of the Cyvill Magi&s;trate, not as they are Prelats, Prie&s;ts or Deacons, or by vertue of tho&s;e functions; but in re&s;pect of other qualifications. Nether are the forced by any law to adjoyne any &s;uch Authoritie to their Mini&s;tery, but permitted only. But what if by the lawes of men, Mini&s;ters might be Murtherers, Adulterers, Theeus, &amp;c. &s;hould theis lawes chaunge the nature of their Mini&s;te|ry? what? of their Mini&s;tery that denye vnto them&s;elues that lycence; would it not rather the more ju&s;tify their Mini&s;tery; when in Con&s;cience of Gods law, they &s;hall for beare that which fle&s;h, and blood and humaine laws would permit vnto them.</P>
<P N="3">3. Suppo&s;e not onely that it is vnlawfull for any true Pa&s;tors, and Teachers, to bee Cyvill Magi&s;trats, but that al&s;o by our lawes, all our Mini&s;ters, were forced therunto, and that by vertue of their Mini&s;tery, will it thence follow, that for this cau&s;e, they are not true Pa|&s;tors and Teachers; May not true Pa&s;tors and Teachers, in their weackne&s;&s;e, ignorance, and infirmities (the laws of the State requiring the &s;ame) admitt of &s;ome kind of office or Authoritie, for bidden them; but they mu&s;t needs ther vpon cea&s;e to bee true Pa&s;tors, &amp; Teachers? doth the admitting of every vnlawfull thing chaunge the nature of the Mini&s;tery, and make it either noe Mi|ni&s;tery, or a Mini&s;tery of an other kinde.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery of Chri&s;tian Pa&s;tors, and Teachers,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The. 5. Arg.</NOTE> <HI>&s;tandeth by
<PB REF="11">the word, and ordinance of Chri&s;t, &s;o as all Churches vnder Heaven, are bound to receaue, and &s;ubmit thervnto.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the Prelacie, Pree&s;thood and Deaconry of the Ghurch of England &s;taundeth only by the Authoritie and Law of man, &s;oe as other Churches els wher, nether are nor neede to bee &s;ubjecte thervnto; which euen them&s;elues of all &s;orts haue acknowledged; for which &s;ee Whitgifts defence in the Pre|face. The An&s;wer to the Ab&s;traucte pag. 58. The Admoni|tion to the Parlement; The defence of the Godly Mini&s;ters the demon&s;tration.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore it is not the Mini&s;tery of Chri&s;tian Pa&s;tors and Tea|chers.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>I deny the A&s;&s;umption. The Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies of England, whether of Prelates, Prie&s;ts or Deacons, or by what other names &s;oeuer they be called, for the &s;ub&s;tance therof, &s;tandeth by the word, and ordi|nance of Chri&s;t, and not onely by the Authority and law of man: And all other true Churches, are and ought to be &s;ubject, to the &s;ame kinde of Mini&s;tery, and to noe other, that &s;hall in any E&s;&s;entiall point of Mini&s;tery dif|fer from ours.</P>
<P>If any Perticuler Par&s;ons among&s;t vs, haue bene &s;oe vnadui&s;ed to graunt the A&s;&s;umption, let them an&s;wer for them&s;elues; Hee hath noe more rea&s;on to binde vs to their opinions, then wee to binde him vnto what|&s;oeuer his predece&s;&s;ours Browne, Barrowe, and Green|wood haue held before him. Concerning &s;ome of the particulers, Doctor Whitgifts words are theis, <HI>The &s;ub|&s;tance,
<PB REF="11">and nature of Gouerment mu&s;t indeed by taken out of the word of God, and con&s;i&s;teth in theis parts. That the word be truely taught, the Sacraments rightly admini&s;tred, virtue fur|thered, vice repre&s;sed, and the Church kept in quietne&s;&s;e and order: The offices of the Church, wherby this Gouerment is wrought bee not namely, and particulerly expre&s;sed in the Scrip|ture, but in &s;ome points left to the di&s;cretion, and libertie of the Church, to be di&s;po&s;ed according to the State of times, Places, and per&s;ons.</HI> The Author of the An&s;wer to the Ab&s;tract in the place aledged &s;aith, <HI>That it cannot be proued that any &s;et and exacte particuler forme of di&s;cipline is recomended vnto vs in the word of God.</HI> Now are either of theis to af|firme, <HI>That the Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;semblies &s;taundeth only by the lawes and Authoritie of Man?</HI> Hath M. Iohn|&s;on any &s;hame left in his face that thus &s;hamefully abu|&s;eth the names of learned, and reuerent men, &s;oe direct|ly contrary to their words and meaning. Is ther not cau&s;e to &s;u&s;pect that the other Authors, are in like man|ner abu&s;ed, and that for the better hideing of his frau|de, hee forbeareth to quote any particuler places; Being therfore convinced of depravation, in the places parti|cularly quoted, wee may pre&s;ume, that if the other pla|ces had bene more pertinent, hee would haue giuen vs &s;ome particuler directions al&s;o for the finding of them; And the rather, for that hee cannot be ignorant, that tho&s;e whom &s;pecially hee fighteth again&s;t in theis Ar|gume~ts, doe rely vpon the judgement of the Authours following, more then of the former.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<PB REF="12">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The offices of Pa&s;tors,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The <HI>6. Arg.</HI></NOTE> <HI>and Teachers, which Chri&s;t hath appoin|ted, are &s;uch as they which haue them mu&s;t bee members of a true vi&s;ible Church, and bound to one perticuler Congrega|tion for the Mini&s;tery and Gouerment therof.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the Offices of the Prelats, Prie&s;ts, and Deacons of the Church of Englande, are &s;uch as they which haue them, need not bee, neither in their State can bee members of a true vi&s;i|ble Church, but of a fals, neither are bound to one perticuler Congregation for the Mini&s;tery and Gouerment therof, but the Prelates are our whoele Prouinces, and Dioce&s;&s;es &amp; other inferior Prie&s;ts, may haue in that State pluralitie of benefices and Eccle&s;iall Cures &amp;c. which none can deny.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore they are not the Pa&s;tors &amp; Teachers that Chri&s;t hath appointed.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>Though &s;ome parts of the Propo&s;ition bee di&s;puta|ble; Yet becau&s;e other be&s;ids the Seperation doe hould the whol for truth. I will leaue it <HI>in medio.</HI></P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is falce; e&s;pecially if it bee vnder|&s;toode (as it ought to bee) of the offices of &s;uch Prelats, Prie&s;ts, and Deacons as are Mini&s;ters of our Church A&s;|&s;emblies. For mo&s;t of tho&s;e which haue &s;uch offices are, and are bound to be members of true vi&s;ible Churches; And cannot in their E&s;tate (they being in all points an|&s;werable to the lawes) be members of a falce Church; They are all (&s;uch excepted as haue &s;peciall di&s;pen&s;a|tions) bound to one particuler Congregation, and may not by law, haue more Cures then one; but admitting
<PB REF="12">of a &s;econde, the fir&s;t is voyd; Yea the Prelats the~&s;elues; though in regard of their Prelaticall office, they are Go|uernors of whole Prouinces, &amp; dioce&s;&s;es, yet it is po&s;&s;i|ble for them (not with&s;tanding) to be members (in their E&s;tate) of a true vi&s;ible Church, and bee bound (as are the Prelats of Scotland) to one particuler congregation for the &s;peciall Mini&s;tery and Gouerment therof. And though the other Mini&s;ters may haue in that e&s;tate pluralitie of benefices, and Cures, yet it doth not fol|low, that therfore they are &s;uch, as in their e&s;tate cannot be members of a true vi&s;ible Church; excepte they haue the~ indeede, yea &amp; though they &s;hould be plurali&s;ts in|deede, yet (for ought hee hath proued to the contrary) they may bee membres of true vi&s;ible Churches, and may each bee bound to one particuler Congregation, for the Mini&s;tery and Gouerment therof.</P>
<P>But what man, except hee were halfe frantick, wold rea&s;on, thus, Our Mini&s;ters may bee Plurali&s;ts therfore they neither <HI>are</HI> nor <HI>can be</HI> true Pa&s;tors and Teachers; Is not this rather one of the honors then blemi&s;hes of our Mini&s;ters; That they <HI>may be</HI> plurali&s;ts, and yet <HI>are not.</HI> If by our lawes their owne A&s;&s;emblies were e&s;tabli&s;hed If by the &s;ame lawes their Pa&s;tors and Teachers, might bee non re&s;idents or plurali&s;ts, or wor&s;e, would they think hem&s;elus euer the wor&s;e for this? would they not rather thinke them&s;elus the better that they are not &s;oe bad, as by mans lawe they might bee.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Offices Condition and Gouerment of Pa&s;tors and Teachers,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The 7. Arg.</NOTE> <HI>are &s;uch as noe way impaire the Authority and Supremacy of the Syvill Magi&s;trate.</HI></ITEM>
<PB REF="13">
<ITEM><HI>But the offices, Condition and Gouerment of Prelates, Prie&s;ts &amp; Deacons, are &s;uch as doe many waies impaire the Authori|tie Supremacie and dignity of Kings, and all other Magi|&s;trats both in Civill, and Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Cau&s;es. For the Pre|lates will haue their pre&s;ence, voice, and Authority, to be at Parlaments, for enacting of lawes and Statuts for the Com|mon wealth. They are Rulers of whol Prouinces, and dioce&s;ses in the Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall cau&s;es therof.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>In Civill State, and dignity, &s;ome of them are aboue all, and all of them, aboue &s;ome of the Nobles, Iu&s;tices, and other Ma|gi&s;trats of the Lande. Them&s;elues their Courts and officers handle and determine &s;undry Civill Cau&s;es, and affaires, appertaining to the Magi&s;tracie; They inflict Civill Mu|lts, and puni&s;hments; In their forbidden times they giue licence to Mary. The beneficed Prie&s;ts &s;weare Canonicall obeidience to the Prelats. All the Prie&s;ts and Deacons are exempt from the Magi&s;trats Iuri&s;diction in diuers things appertaining vnto them, and an&s;werable onely or cheifly to the Prelats and their officers.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore they are not the onely Pa&s;tors and Teachers &s;poken of Eph. 4.11.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is falce, nether doe the in&s;tances proue the &s;ame. 1. The Prelats claime their voices in Parlament not as diuine ordinaunces appartaining to their Prelate&s;hip, but as an honor annexed to the &s;ame by the Civill Magi&s;trate.</P>
<P N="2">2. Their Authority in Cau&s;es Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall ouer Pro|uinces, &amp;c. is either &s;uch as the Civill Magi&s;trate him|&s;elfe may execute, and admini&s;ter in his owne per&s;on if
<PB REF="13">hee plea&s;e; or &s;uch as is not for them, as they are Magi|&s;trats, to execute. The fir&s;t &s;ort they admini&s;ter only, by vertue of the Magi&s;trats owne Commi&s;&s;ion, and therin they cannot impair either his dignity, or Supremacie much le&s;&s;e in the other part of their Authoritie, which belongeth not to the Magi&s;trats them&s;elues to execute e&s;pecially when they v&s;e it not nether, without their con&s;ent, lycence, and approbation.</P>
<P N="3">3. That all are aboue &s;ome, and &s;ome aboue all of the Nobles, and Iu&s;tices, &amp;c. is a free and voluntary honour graunted vnto them by the Civill Magi&s;trate, and held in tenure from him, and not claimed (as I thinke) as belonging to their Epi&s;copall function, by diuine right.</P>
<P N="4">4. Their Courts determine noe other Civill cau&s;es, then the Civill Magi&s;trate, and his lawes do permit, or if they doe the falt is in the Par&s;ons, and not in the Pre|lat&s;hip; further they inflict Civill puni&s;hments, giue ly|cences, exacte Oathes, &amp;c. by Authority from the Ma|gi&s;trat who&s;e &s;ub&s;i&s;tutes therin they are. And therfore the Prelates neither in theis, nor in any of the former in&s;tances can bee &s;aide to impaire the dignity, Autho|ritie, or Supremacie of the Civill Magi&s;trate, when herein they doe all things, in and by the protection of his Authoritie, much le&s;&s;e can other inferior Mini&s;ters who haue noe dealing in the afore&s;aid matters. La&s;tly if all our Mini&s;ters be exempt from the Magi&s;trats Iu|ri&s;diction, in &s;ome things appertaining vnto them (but wherin I knowe not) this very exemptio~ it &s;elfe, is an act of the Magi&s;trats Iuri&s;diction &amp; depends, onely vpon his plea&s;ure! &amp; how can it the~, any waies impair the &s;ame. &amp;
<PB REF="14">hytherto hee hath dealt by Syllogi&s;mes &s;uch as they are, now for a conclu&s;ion of this fir&s;t Argument, hee &s;hoots at rouers as followeth.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>To this end diuers other rea&s;ons might be aledged, for example If they &s;ay that Arch Bi&s;hops haue the Pa&s;tors, then they haue but two. If Lord Bi&s;hops, then but 26. and what office then haue the Arch Bi&s;hops among&s;t them. If the other Prie&s;tes, then what office haue the Arch Bi&s;hops: and Bi|&s;hops &s;eing God hath or dayned noe higher ordinary Eccle&s;ia|&s;ticall office, as &s;ome of them-&s;elus acknowledg. If they &s;ay the deacons haue the Pa&s;tors office, the &s;ame ab&s;urdity follow|eth as in the former be&s;ids that the works of the deacons office are oppo&s;ed to the worke of the Mini&s;tery. Act. 6.2. with. Eph. 4.11. Rom. 12.8. If they &s;hould &s;ay they haue the Teachers office, it would be known, which of their officiers haue it among&s;t them, and to whom they are adioyned for the worke of Mini&s;tery, as Teachers are to Pa&s;tors, and what office the re&s;t haue whom the accompt not to haue the Teachers office &amp; whether the Teacher &s;poken of Eph. 4.11. mu&s;t fir&s;t bee dea|cons; and then Prie&s;tes and permit obeydeince to the Prelates; and that al&s;o is to their ordinaires, and be &s;ylenced and depo|&s;ed at thtir plea&s;ure.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>Here hee thinkes hee hath knitt &s;uch Gardian knotts as cannot be vntide, without a &s;word or a bill; but the Simplicitie of the man here in is to bee laughed at, for 1. though &s;ome &s;hould &s;ay, that either our Arch Bi&s;hops: or Bi&s;hops haue the Pa&s;tors office, yet ther in they doe not exclude the other Mini&s;ters, from that which is the &s;ub|&s;tance,
<PB REF="14">and effect of that office, though they &s;hould from the name; No nor fro~ the name neither, but &s;hould ther|in onely make degres of pa&s;tours, viz. of Arch Bi&s;hops. over Bi&s;hops and their Dioce&s;&s;es of Bi&s;hops over Mini|&s;ters and their Churches, and of Mini&s;ters ouer their owne Congregations; Leaving vnto them (not with &s;ta~ding the Superioritie of the other Pa&s;tors) that maine and Sub&s;tantial office of the Pa&s;tor which is enough to define and denominate a Pa&s;tor. And therfore they may make &s;uch Pa&s;tors, as are over whole Prouinces but two, &amp; &s;uch as are over whole dioce&s;&s;es but, 26. and yet hold al&s;o without any ab&s;urditie, that their are al&s;o as ma|ny Pa&s;tors be&s;yds, as ther are Mini&s;ters of a particuler Congregation. And though it &s;hould be graunted that herein they were deceaued in making Provinciall and dioce&s;me Pa&s;tors; yet the &s;orteing of vnproper Pa&s;tors; with true or the &s;ubiecting of true Pa&s;tors vnto other &s;orts of Pa&s;tors, doth not nece&s;&s;arily make the true Pa|&s;tors fals, &s;oe long as vnder them they performe, the name, and &s;ub&s;tantiall duties of true Pa&s;tors; which all the Mini&s;ters of our Church A&s;&s;emblies doe, or by the lawes ought to doe.</P>
<P N="2">2. If any hould that the Mini&s;ters of perticular Con|gregations, onely are Pa&s;tors, the~ they may without any ab&s;urdity hould that they Arch Bi&s;hops, and Bi&s;hops, are generall Co~mi&s;&s;ioners vnder the King to &s;ee that the Pa&s;tors doe their duties, and in that regard, may al&s;o Me|taphorically, and in another &s;ence bee called Pa&s;tors, as Princes them&s;elves are &s;oe called, in good and approued Authors; and what ab&s;urdity can follow vpon this? Or what if they which hould the Mini&s;ters of perticular
<PB REF="15">Congregations to bee Pa&s;tors, could not tell what to make of the office of Arch Bi&s;hops and Bi&s;hops, whats that to the purpo&s;e? are not our Mini&s;ters, and Teachers therfore Pa&s;tors, becau&s;e they which &s;hall hould them to bee &s;oe, cannot tell what to make of the Calling of Arch Bi&s;hops and Bi&s;hops?</P>
<P N="3">3. Though this &s;hould bee yelded vnto him that all Pa&s;tors are equall, and that the Pa&s;tors of perticular Congregations, are the highe&s;t ordinary Eccle&s;ia&s;ti|call officers; yet &s;hould this make nothing to the con|firming of his conceit, That our Mini&s;ters are not ther|fore true Pa&s;tors and Teachers, becau&s;e then Arch Bi|&s;hops and Bi&s;hops &s;hould be excluded; for this doth not exclude them from being Commi&s;&s;ioners, and Vi&s;itors in cau&s;es eccle&s;ia&s;ticall vnder the King over the Pa&s;tors, and Churches, of &s;uch and &s;uch Prouinces and Dioce&s;|&s;es, which is to giue the~ their principall honour, &amp; due. 4. Concerning the Teachers office (not to contende needle&s;ly, with him about the nature and quality therof but to &s;uppo&s;e a Teacher in that &s;ence which hee mean|eth) This may rea&s;onably bee held; That &s;ome of our Mini&s;ters, (whether Prie&s;ts or Deacons &s;o called, or whether Par&s;ons, Vicars, Curats or Stipendaries) are Pa&s;tors and &s;ome Teachers, That &s;o many of them as haue and v&s;e the gift, not onely of doctrine and in&s;tru|ction, but of Exhortation, are Pa&s;tors, That tho&s;e which wanting the power of Exhortation, and yet haue &amp; v&s;e the gift of in&s;truction and doctrine are &s;uch Teachers, as hee meaneth. And therfore herein al&s;o if it &s;hould bee yealded vnto him, That it were fit that every Congre|gation &s;hould haue both theis offices; and that the Tea|cher
<PB REF="15">&s;hould be the Pa&s;tors A&s;&s;i&s;tant, yet it doth not fol|low, but that in want of &s;ufficient men, for both theis of|fices in every Congregation, &s;ome may inioy one, and &s;ome an other. For if the Churches of their owne way, and con&s;titution, may bee without both Pa&s;tors &amp; Tea|chers, and that for a long time, till men may be cho&s;en vnto that office? Why may not a Church much more in the like nece&s;&s;ity retaine a Pa&s;tor without a Teacher, or a Teacher without a Pa&s;tor, Can hee proue by any colour out of Gods word, That one cannot bee called vnto, or execute the office of a Pa&s;tor vntill hee haue a Teacher to a&s;&s;i&s;t him, or that hee cannot execute the office of a Doctor, except hee do it as an actuall a&s;&s;i&s;tant of &s;ome Pa&s;tor? If not, then is this a mo&s;t frivolous demaunde, when hee askes to whome our Teachers are adioynd for the worke of their Mini&s;tery: nether doe the places hee quoteth viz. Eph. 4.11. Ro~. 12.7. proue any &s;uch matter. 5. As idle and impertinent is that demande which fol|loweth <HI>whether the Teachers &s;poken of Eph. 4.11. mu&s;t fir&s;t bee Deacons, &amp; then Prie&s;ts, &amp; promi&s;e obeidience to Prelats, &amp; be &s;ilenced and depo&s;ed at their plea&s;ures.</HI> For what if noe &s;uch matters bee required of Teachers by Paul, either in that or any other place, doth it thervpon follow, that their &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion to &s;uch things, makes them noe Teachers! may not Magi&s;trats, &amp; others al&s;o require, &s;ome things of Teachers, not required by the Apo&s;tles, but they mu&s;t needs thervpon, become no Teachers? But what repug|nauncie is their in theis matters, to the office of a Tea|cher? To be a Deacon in the intent of our lawes what is it, but (as him&s;elfe out of our booke of ordination hath in effect publi&s;hed it) <HI>To read the Seriptures,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">Pag. 31.</NOTE> <HI>&amp; to pray in the Church to Catechi&s;e the Io~ger &s;ort, to baptize &amp; to preach
<PB REF="16">if the Bi&s;hop &s;hal think him &s;itt.</HI> what is it to bee a Prie&s;t, or Presbyter in our law? hath not him&s;elf al&s;o taught vs? viz.
<NOTE PLACE="marg">Pag. 32.</NOTE> <HI>To haue authoritie to Preach the word, and to Mini&s;ter the holy Sacramentes in the Congregation, wher hee &s;halbe ap|pointed,</HI> what obeidience doe they (promi&s;e to Prela|tes in the intent of the lawe? but onely in things that they &s;hal judge hone&s;t, and lawfull, and not repugnaunt to the word of God; what is it to bee &s;ylenced and de|po&s;ed, but to forbear to Mini&s;ter publiquly (as them&s;el|ues doe al&s;o forbeare) vpon the Magi&s;trats plea&s;ure: for the Bi&s;hops plea&s;ure &s;oe far as they proceede according to the lawes, is the Magi&s;trats plea&s;ure, otherwi&s;e it is but a per&s;onall fault. And wherein Imarvaile doe any of the&s;e acts, &s;o oppugne the office of a Teacher, that they cannot &s;tand together! wher doth Paul forbid any of theis acts vnto the Teacher? or if hee &s;hould, doth euery Act forbidden to a Teacher, make him noe Teahcer?</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn. pag. 14.</HEAD>
<Q><HI>Wheras &s;ome alledge that the people were to hear the Scribs and Phare&s;ees &s;itting in Mo&s;es Chayre it is to bee noted, that they were Leuits and Prie&s;ts and therfore had the true offices ap|pointed by Mo&s;es. This therfore is nothing for a fals Mini&s;te|ry, &s;uch as theirs is proued to bee. further to bee a Pharefye was not to haue a new kinde of Mini&s;tery, but to bee of a &s;pe|ciall Sect among&s;t the Iewes that pretended more &s;trict ob&s;er|vances of the law, and might bee of any Tribe. La&s;tly though the were corrupt, yet did the hould, that very true Mini&s;ter mu&s;t bee from heauen: and this haue the forward Preachers acknowledged, as T. C. pag. 83.</HI></Q>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<PB REF="16">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>Here ab&s;urdly, and Childi&s;hly hee goeth about to an&s;wer &s;uch an objection, as noe body ever made again&s;t any thing contained in the former Argument. This Ar|gument onely is v&s;ed in generall to &s;hewe, that &s;ome corruptions in Mini&s;ters and Churches are not of that nature, that men &s;hould therfore &s;eperate from all Spi|rituall Communion with them, And wher hee &s;aith, that <HI>this is nothing for any fals Mini&s;tery neuer ordained of the Lord, &s;uch as ours is proued to bee:</HI> Noe man ever brought it to proue any &s;uch matter; But onely to proue that &s;uch corruptions as are in our Mini&s;tery, ought noe more to hinder, communion with our Mini&s;ters, then the cor|ruptions in the Mini&s;tery of the Scribes and Phare&s;ees, did hinder the communion, with their Mini&s;tery, and that the corruptions in our Mini&s;tery doe noe more ar|gue our Mini&s;ters to bee fals Mini&s;ters, then their cor|ruptions, did argue them to bee fals Mini&s;ters: Nether hath hee brought any Argument to proue our Mini&s;ters fals Mini&s;ters, but either &s;uch corruptions, as the Scribes and Phare&s;ees were guilty of, in as high if not a higher degree, or in re&s;pect of their names, in that they are cal|led Prie&s;ts and Deacons; So that if the Scribes &amp; Phare|&s;ees were true Mini&s;ters, not with &s;tanding their names, and other corruptions, our Mini&s;ters cannot bee fals, in regard of the like names and corruptions: furthermore <HI>if to be expounders of the Law,</HI> bee &s;ufficient to argue their Mini&s;tery to bee a true Mini&s;tery, nothwith&s;tanding their names of Scribes and Phare&s;ees, with other vile &amp; gro&s;&s;e corruptions; why may not the Preaching of the
<PB REF="17">word, and admini&s;tration of the Sacraments bee &s;uffi|cient to argue, our Mini&s;ters to bee true Pa&s;tors, and Teachers, notwith&s;ta~ding that in the mouth of the law, they are &s;ometimes called Prie&s;ts and Deacons. For o|therwi&s;e in the mouths of men; euen of the Bi&s;hops them&s;elues they are not &s;o called; except &s;ometimes by Metaphoricall allu&s;ions to the Leviticall Pree&s;thood; But they are v&s;ually &s;o called onely by profane Athei&s;ts, or ignorant people, with whom in this point, the Sepe|ration goeth hand in hand.</P>
<P N="2">2. To bee a Phare&s;ie was not onely (as hee minceth the matter) <HI>to be of a &s;peciall Sect among&s;t the Iewes, that pretended more &s;trict ob&s;eruances of the law then others.</HI> But al&s;o (which as it is to be feared with a fraudulent minde hee concea|leth) to joine mainy humaine Traditions, and will-wor|&s;hips to the wor&s;hip and &s;eruice of God (wherby they are &s;aide by Chri&s;t him&s;elfe, in vaine to wor&s;hip God, and to make the commaundements of God of none ef|fect;) making more accompt of; and vrging with more &s;everity the &s;aid Traditions, then Gods owne laws; And in like manner, wee affirme, That to bee a Prie&s;t and Deacon, in the intent of our law (what&s;oeuer the words may ring to the contrary in &s;ome mens eares) is (at the wor&s;t) to bee &s;uch a kinde of pa&s;tor and Teacher, as is content, over and be&s;ids tho&s;e duties of the Mini&s;tery which Chri&s;t requires of them to yeald conformity al|&s;o to humaine Traditions, of noe wor&s;e nature and qua|lity in them&s;elues, then tho&s;e which the Phare&s;ies v&s;ed in or about Gods &s;eruice, wherin to &s;uppo&s;e that they &s;in, yet cannot this their &s;in be &s;o repugnant to the Mi|ni&s;tery of Chri&s;t as that of the Scribes and Phare&s;ies,
<PB REF="17">which they are forced to acknowledge to be a true Mi|ni&s;tery, In that they were the vrgers of Traditions, wheras our Mini&s;ters (for the mo&s;t part) onely yeald vnto them, either in obeidience and loue; or feare of the Magi&s;trat that commaundes them. La&s;tly wheras hee argues them true Mini&s;ters by this, <HI>that though they were very corrupt, yet the did &s;till hould that euery Mini&s;tery mu&s;t bee from Heaven, and not of men.</HI> It de&s;erues rather to bee lau|ghed at, then an&s;wered. For may not yea doe the fal&s;e&s;t Mini&s;tery that are or ever haue bene, hould &s;o much, at lea&s;t in &s;uch a &s;ence and meaning as the Phare&s;ies might hould it. And can hee name any among&s;t vs, that houlds not as much?</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>THE SECOND REASON. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Ihon.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>NOne may heare or haue any Spiritually communion with the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Such is the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of Englande.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>None may heare haue any Spirituall communion with the &s;ame.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<PB REF="18">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>I graunt the Propo&s;ition; taking the words in the plaine and common &s;ence viz. vnder&s;tanding by <HI>the Mi|ni&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;tacie.</HI> The admini&s;tration and di&s;pen&s;ation of the things of Antichri&s;t; otherwi&s;e to communicate &s;piritually with any Mini&s;ters what &s;oe|uer onely in the holy things of Chri&s;t, is not to commu|nicate with the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;tacy, no though the Mini&s;ters be Mini&s;ters therof. Nether do the 5. Rea&s;ons following whereby hee needle&s;ly proues his prepo&s;ition, proue it vnlawfull to heare or haue any &s;pi|rituall communion with the Mini&s;ters of Antichri&s;t, then, when they Mini&s;ter the things of Chri&s;t.</P>
<P>For the profe of the A&s;&s;umption hee makes a terrible mu&s;ter if no le&s;&s;e then 7. Arguments. But let vs pull vp our Spirets, and &s;ee what is in them, one by one.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery of Deacons and Prie&s;ts ordained by the Prelats thervnto is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y.</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The 1. Arg.</NOTE></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of Englande, is &s;uch a Mini&s;tery.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>It is of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>Hee brought this very Argument to proue the fir&s;t Rea&s;on and now hee brings it againe for a profe of his &s;econd Rea&s;on: And is not this a learned kind of rea|&s;oning? when hee will make a &s;hew of multitudes of
<PB REF="18">Rea&s;ons again&s;t vs, and yet all of them come to one i&s;&s;ue and lie vpon one ground, and depend vpon one profe; &s;o that the overthrowe of one, is the overthrowe of all: But his childi&s;h vanitie herein wee &s;hall better perceaue in that which followeth.</P>
<P>Both the Propo&s;ition and A&s;&s;umption are fals; For 1. It is not nece&s;&s;ary, that the Mini&s;tery of Prie&s;ts, and Deacons, though ordained by Antichri&s;t him&s;elfe, &s;hould be the Mini&s;tery of his Apo&s;tacy; But not with|&s;tanding his ordination, their Mini&s;tery may be the Mi|ni&s;tery of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t; As was the Mini&s;tery of Luther, Hu&s;&s;e, Wickliffe and others.</P>
<P N="2">2. The Mini&s;tery of &s;uch manner of Prie&s;ts and Dea|cons, as the Prelats ordaine, (or by the lawes ought to ordaine) is the true Mini&s;tery of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, and for the &s;ub&s;tance therof, directly contrary to the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y.</P>
<P N="3">3. The Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies, is not (as I haue &s;hewed before) the Mini&s;tery of Prie&s;ts and Dea|cons properly &s;o taken, but of Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</P>
<P>The Propo&s;ition hee proueth as followeth by two Arguments.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery of Deacons and Prie&s;ts which accompts it &s;elfe to bee Chri&s;ts, and yet was not &s;et by Chri&s;t in his Church, for the worke of his Mini&s;tery, is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Such is the Mini&s;tery of Deacons and Prie&s;ts, ordained by the Prelats therevnto.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>It is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<PB REF="19">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This Argument is it which hee bringeth for the fir&s;t Rea&s;on of all; and here hee brings it to proue that which before was brought to proue it. For hee proues, <HI>That our Mini&s;tery is not &s;et by Chri&s;t in his Church, by this becau&s;e it is the Mini&s;tery of Prie&s;ts and Deacons,</HI> and &s;o by con&s;equent of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie. Here hee proues, <HI>That the Mi|ni&s;tery of Prie&s;ts and Deacons is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie, Becau&s;e it is a Mini&s;tery, that was not &s;et by Chri&s;t in his Church;</HI> This doth hee mo&s;t gro&s;ly runne round in a circle, as if I &s;hould proue that his Mini&s;tery is vnlaw|full, becau&s;e hee is a Schi&s;matick, and that hee is a Schi&s;|matick, becau&s;e his Mini&s;tery is vnlawful. The 2. Rea&s;on wherby he proues his Propo&s;ition followeth.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>2. If the Prelates of the Church of England haue &s;uch offices, and Gouerment as be &s;peciall parts of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie, then the Mini&s;tery ordained by them thervnto mu&s;t needs bee the Mini&s;tery of that Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the Prelats of the Church of England haue &s;uch offices and gouerment, as bee &s;peciall parts of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore the Mini&s;tery ordained by them is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The con&s;equent is manife&s;t, becau&s;e the fruit mu&s;t needs bee as the tree is. Mat. 7.16. and who can bring a clean thing out of filthine&s;se. Iob 14.4.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;sumption is proued.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>1. Who&s;oever (be&s;ids Chri&s;t) haue &s;uch offices and Gouerment, wherby the claime to bee &s;pirituall Lords, the haue the offices,
<PB REF="19">and Gouerment which are &s;peciall parts of Antichri&s;ts Apo|&s;ta&s;y, and are indeed very Antichri&s;ts them&s;elues.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But &s;uch are the Prelats of the Church of Englande.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore the haue &s;uch offices and Gouerments, as are &s;peciall purts of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The Propo&s;ition is proued by tho&s;e places of Scripture which teach that there is but one &s;pirituall Lord, the Lord Ie&s;us.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;sumption is proued by the lawes, and Statutes of the land, wherin they are called Lords Spirituall, and in their Canons they take vpon them to pre&s;cribe their owne ordinaunces to the Ghurch for the wor&s;hip of God, and binde the &s;piret and cou&s;cience to the acknowledgement, and approbation therof, and to giue the holy Gho&s;t.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>2. The offices and Gouerment of &s;uch Bi&s;hops, as are ouer Dio|ce&s;an, and Prouinciall Churches, and exerci&s;e Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall juri&s;diction ouer all the Mini&s;ters and people therin, are &s;pe|ciall parts of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But &s;uch are the Prelates of the Church of Englande.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>They haue &s;uch offices and gouerment as bee &s;pecially parts of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. I deny the co~&s;equent of the Propo&s;ition of the 1. Sil|logi&s;me. The officers &amp; gouernors of Antichri&s;ts Apo|&s;ta&s;y, may &amp; haue ordained &s;ome things that are Chri|&s;tian, Nether doth the &s;aying of Chri&s;t or Iob proue the con&s;equent; for though it &s;hould be graunted vnto him, that the gouernors of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y haue ordai|ned this Mini&s;tery; yet doth it not follow that it is ther|fore a propre &amp; meere fruit of Antichri&s;t, but may be an
<PB REF="20">dentall effect, as are many other things which hee ordai|neth agreable to Chri&s;ts owne ordinaunces, &s;o that hee mu&s;t proue that our Mini&s;tery ordained by the Pope or Bi&s;hops, doth as properly flowe from the nature of their office and gouerment, as figs from a fig tree, or grapes from a vine, or filthy water from a foule fountaine; The contrary wherof is in this ca&s;e mo&s;t euident. For leaue the bare names and tytles, and con&s;ider our Mini&s;tery in all the e&s;&s;entiall parts, and offices therof, and it is a po&s;&s;i|ble, either for a <HI>Presbythery,</HI> or for any perticuler Church, &s;uch in con&s;titution as their owne, to ordaine the like Mini&s;tery in all points and re&s;pects, with all the defects and faults therof.</P>
<P N="2">2. Concerning the fir&s;t profe of the A&s;&s;umption, The Propo&s;ition may bee denied; It being one thing <HI>to bee,</HI> and another to <HI>make claine to bee,</HI> for euery one is not that which hee claimeth to bee, The In&s;tances alledged to proue the A&s;&s;umption, either are fals or proue it not. The lawes may giue their titles, to men which they doe not claime. Neither doe either their Canons or practis &s;hew that they pre&s;cribe their owne ordinances <HI>for wor|&s;hip</HI> or propound to <HI>binde mens con&s;ciences to the acknowled|gement of any &s;uch matter.</HI> The profe&s;&s;e the contrary, and vrge their owne ordinaunces onely vnder the name of things indifferent, Though therfore in error of iudge|ment, they may, and happily doe commande &s;uch ordi|nances of their owne, as are diuine wor&s;hip, and in &s;uch a manner as it bindeth con&s;cience (which M. <HI>Iohn&s;ons</HI> owne Church in many ca&s;es may doe, except they think them&s;elues priviledged from error) yet they prote&s;ting again&s;t any &s;uch power and authority, they cannot be
<PB REF="20">&s;aide therin to arrogate the office of Spirituall Lords, in that &s;ence at lea&s;t, in which Chri&s;t is &s;aid to bee the on|ly Spirituall Lord. And though in their ordination of Mini&s;ters, they v&s;e as a ceremoniall &s;peech to &s;ay, <HI>Receaue the holy Gho&s;t;</HI> and therin peraduenture offer &s;ome force vnto the Scripture vnto which the allude; yet they di&s;|claime al actuall power and authority of giuing the per|&s;on or gifts of the holy Gho&s;t vnto men.</P>
<P>It &s;hall bee needle&s;&s;e in this controver&s;ie, to &s;pend time in the defence of the calling of Bi&s;hops any fur|ther then the nece&s;&s;ity of the argument requires, Onely for the further clearing of the truth in the differences of them of the Seperation not only from the Bi&s;hops, but from the other &s;ort of Mini&s;ters al&s;o, which doe not approue of their callings, I offer theis pointes vnto them to con&s;ider of advi&s;edly.</P>
<P N="1">1. Whether the Supreame Magi&s;trate haue not power to ouer &s;ee, and Gouerne all the &s;everall Churches with in his dominions, yea whether hee bee not bound &s;o to doe?</P>
<P N="2">2. Whether for his further helpe and a&s;&s;i&s;tance herein hee may not make choi&s;e of graue learned and reuerent men to a&s;&s;i&s;t him in the &s;ame gouerment.</P>
<P N="3">3. Whether by vertue of his power theis per&s;ons thus called to a&s;&s;i&s;t the Supreame Magi&s;trate, may not law|fully try the gifts of all the &s;everall Mini&s;ters with in his dominions, and giue publique approbation of the wor|thy, &amp; inhibit tho&s;e which they finde vnworthy, fro~ the execution of their Mini&s;tery, &amp; whether they may not vi&s;it the &s;everall Mini&s;ters and Churches, conuent them before them, examine them, how they haue behaued
<PB REF="21">them&s;elues in their places, and puni&s;h the blame wor|thy.</P>
<P N="4">4. Whether for the more ea&s;y and orderly Gouerment of the &s;aid Churches, &s;o far forth as appertaineth to him, hee may not devide his kingdom (as ours is) into Provinces a&s;&s;igning over each of them vnder him&s;elf &s;ome &s;peciall Magi&s;trat for learning and experience to over&s;ee, and gouerne all the perticuler Churches there, and whether hee may not &s;ubdevide tho&s;e Provinces into Dioce&s;&s;es, a&s;&s;igning al&s;o to them, other more infe|rior officers, vnder him, and his provinciall officers, to over &s;ee the &s;everall Churches with in &s;uch, and &s;uch a precincte?</P>
<P N="5">5. Whether it doe de&s;troy the nature of a Mini&s;teriall or a perticular true vi&s;ible Church, that many of them &s;hould appertaine vnto one Provinciall or Dioce&s;ame gouerment, though in that re&s;pect they &s;hould bee held and reputed, but for one Provinciall, or Dioce&s;ame Church?</P>
<P N="6">6. Whether Antichri&s;t hauing v&s;urped the Kings Su|premacy, and taken into his hands this authority and corrupted the &s;ame, hath made it now vnlawfull for the Magi&s;trate to execute the &s;ame in manner and forme a fore &s;aide; or whether the Iuri&s;diction a fore &s;aide doe not directly and properly belonge to the Civill Magi|&s;trate, and not to Antichri&s;t. But by v&s;urpation; And whether his v&s;urpation of this office can make it a part of his Apo&s;ta&s;ie in tho&s;e places where it is re&s;tored a|gaine to the Supreame Magi&s;trate.</P>
<P N="7">7. Whether the Supreame Magi&s;trate recerving this his right from Antichri&s;t, and together with it happily
<PB REF="21">taking al&s;o to him&s;elfe &s;ome thing al&s;o that belonges to the Kingdom of Antichri&s;t: &amp; executing the &s;ame either in his owne per&s;on or by others, together with his owne lawfull right, whether (I &s;ay) this doe de&s;troy his owne lawfull right? and whether the &s;ubiect is ever the le&s;&s;e bounde to &s;ubject them&s;elues vnto the &s;ame right, ei|ther in his owne per&s;on, or his &s;ub&s;titute.</P>
<P>Hither to hee hath indevoured to proue the Propo&s;i|tion of the fir&s;t Argument, wherby hee would confir|me, the A&s;&s;umption of his 2. rea&s;on, and now hee &s;ets v|pon the profe of the A&s;&s;umption. Namely, <HI>That the pre|&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of Englande, is the Mi|ni&s;tery of Deacons, and Prie&s;ts ordained by the Prelats ther vn|to.</HI> This hee &s;aith is proued by the Canons con&s;titutions &amp; ob&s;eruation of our Church; And this hee confirmeth fir&s;t by a longe, tedious and idle reher&s;all of the forme of ordination of our Mini&s;ters, be&s;towing co&s;t to print, in a manner our whole booke of ordination.</P>
<P N="2">2. By certaine of the late Canons pre&s;&s;ing &s;ub&s;crip|tion, conformity, and an acknowledgement of the law|fulnes of the calling of Bi&s;hops, and of their ordination.</P>
<P N="3">3. By certaine &s;harpe &s;peeches of &s;ome Martyrs and of &s;ome others of our owne Nation again&s;t the Arch-Bi&s;hops, Bi&s;hohs, &amp; other of the cleargy of their times. In the relation of which pointes hee &s;pends &s;ome 5 lea|ves; wherin &s;till hee runs in a circle begging one of his arguments to proue an other, So that one of his Argu|ments are as good as all, and all no better then one; This may &s;uffice for an&s;were. 1. That if all par|ticulars mentioned in the booke of ordination &s;hould bee &s;trictly, and preci&s;ely practized (as alwayes they are
<PB REF="22">not) yet ther is not one clau&s;e in the whole forme of or|dination by him cited, that doth nece&s;&s;arily argue them, which are &s;o ordained, to bee true and proper Prie&s;ts, and Deacons; But if ther were and if al&s;o the Mini&s;ters ordained, were anointed with oile, if their crownes were &s;hawen, and they had power giuen to offer the ab|hominable Idole of the Ma&s;&s;e, yet this is not &s;ufficient to argue, that their Mini&s;tery is the Mini&s;tery of Prie&s;ts, &amp;c. except in their Mini&s;tery they &s;hould execute the &s;ame. If their owne Church &s;hould ordaine one to the Mini|&s;tery of a Pa&s;tor, and &s;hould in their ordination require him only to preach the worde &s;incerely, and to admini|&s;ter the Sacraments according to Chri&s;ts in&s;titution, and yet in his practis and execution, hee &s;hould do no|thing, but &s;ing Ma&s;&s;e and Mattens, and they &s;hould ac|cept of this Mini&s;tery, and no other, at his hands; would any that is in his wits, &s;ay that this mans Mini&s;tery, is the Mini&s;tery of a Pa&s;tor: becau&s;e hee was in formality of words &amp; ceremonies ordained to that office, how much le&s;&s;e can any &s;ay that our Mini&s;tery is the Mini&s;tery of Prie&s;ts, when they doe not only execute any &s;uch office, but the clean contrary; and when in their ordination not &s;o much as any parte of a Prie&s;ts office (properly &s;o taken) is a&s;&s;igned vnto them, but only the name; and not &s;o much as their name in their orders written in Latin, which are to interpret the meaning of the Engli&s;h worde.</P>
<P N="2">2. Though the Mini&s;ters &s;hould doe all things requi|red, by the canons, and &s;hould bee every way an&s;wera|ble vnto them, And though the Te&s;timonies of our Martyrs and others were yealded to bee true, yet mu&s;t
<PB REF="22">hee &s;treiue hard, that can from either or both, argue that our Mini&s;ters, are indeede Prie&s;ts, except in a Metapho|ricall, and borrowed &s;peech.</P>
<P>The other Arguments wherby hee proueth the maine A&s;&s;umption of the 2. Rea&s;on viz. <HI>That the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of England, is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y,</HI> followe.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery of the Prelacie profe&s;sing it &s;elfe to bee Chri&s;ts,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The 2. Arg.</NOTE> <HI>and yet &s;tanding in &s;uch an e&s;tate as it doth not obey Ie&s;us Chri&s;t in his ordinance of Mini&s;tery, wor&s;hip and gouerment of the Church, as their Prophet, Prie&s;t and King, is the Mini|&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Such is the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of En|glande.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>It is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>To the Propo&s;ition I an&s;wer, That not onely the <HI>Mi|ni&s;tery of the Prelates,</HI> but of a Presbytery, or any Church what&s;oever that &s;tands in &s;uch an e&s;tate, is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;tacie; And not onely the Mini&s;tery of the Prelats, but any other Mini&s;tery els vpon earth, may &s;tand in &s;uch an e&s;tate, as that it may in diuers, and &s;undry Perticulers of (ignorance or infirmity) di&s;obey Chri&s;t in his owne ordinances of Mini&s;tery, wor&s;hip, and gouerment of the Church, and in that re&s;pect, and &s;o far forth bee the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y, &amp; yet bee al&s;o the Mini&s;tery of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t. Hee proues
<PB REF="23">the Propo&s;ition by 19. places of Scripture; to as much purpo&s;e, as if by as many Te&s;timonies, hee &s;hould proue that it is day lighte at high noone; Except hee meane, That that is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie, doth not in euery perticuler obey Chri&s;t in his owne ordinances of Mini&s;tery. But which his 19. proofes haue no more force to proue it, then to proue that their is a man in the moone, as any may &s;ee that hath nothing els to doe, but to examine them.</P>
<P N="2">2. I deny the A&s;&s;umption; The Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies, though it bee ordained by the Pre|lats, and bee &s;ubject vnto them, yet it is not their Mini|&s;tery, but the Mini&s;tery of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t; They preaching his worde, &amp; admini&s;tring his Sacraments; And it doth (if it bee an&s;werable to the law:) obey Chri&s;t in all the maine e&s;&s;entiall parts of his owne ordinaunce of Mini|&s;tery, &amp;c. And in all other points (for ought hee can proue to the contrary) as far as the Lord hath revailed the truth vnto them which exerci&s;e the &s;ame.</P>
<P>But (&s;aith hee) the <HI>A&s;sumption is evident by that which hath bene &s;aid in the 1. Rea&s;on and their Con&s;titution it &s;elfe &s;hewes it, in that they are &s;o farre from obeing Chri&s;t in his ordi|nances of Mini&s;tery &amp;c. as that they execute the Mini&s;tery and gouerment of an other Arch Bi&s;schop, L. Bi&s;hop then Chri&s;t of an Arch-Deacon, Par&s;on, Vicar, &amp;c. as al&s;o in their reading; prayers out of a booke, and ob&s;erving other humaine inven|tions, and in their Church Gouerment according to Canons, Courts, &amp;c. which were neuer appointed by Chri&s;t.</HI> To omit that here againe, hee begs his fir&s;t rea&s;on to proue his &s;econde, If the A&s;&s;umntion haue noe better evidence, the evidence is fals, as I haue made it evident, in the
<PB REF="23">An&s;wer to the fir&s;t rea&s;on? Nether hath hee there or els where (in any of tho&s;e other of their wrightings which hee &s;ends vs vnto <HI>pag. 40.</HI>) proued that our Mini&s;ters do not obey Chri&s;t, in his ordinance of Mini&s;tery, wor&s;hip, and Gouerment, yea though it &s;hould be graunted that they execute the Mini&s;tery, and Gouerment of other Arch Bi&s;hops, and L. Bi&s;hops be&s;ids Chri&s;t. And though they &s;hould bee Arch Deacons, Par&s;ons, Vicars, reading &s;tinted prayers, &amp;c. For all this may bee donne yea and they may &s;inne &s;ome way in doing all this, and yet they may obey Chri&s;t in all the maine e&s;&s;entiall and &s;ub&s;tan|tiall pointes of his Mini&s;tery wor&s;hip and Gouerment.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery of Chri&s;tians which is oppo&s;ed again&s;t and exal|ted aboue the holy things, Mini&s;tery &amp; ordinances of Chri&s;t,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The 3. Arg.</NOTE> <HI>is the Mini&s;tery of Autichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie, 2. The&s;. 2.3.4. with 1. Ioh. &amp;c.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Such is the Mini&s;tery of their Church A&s;semblies.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>It is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;sumption is euident, 1. Aman may peaceably receaue or admini&s;ter, their holy things in their manner, by vertue of their Deacoury or Prie&s;thoode, receaued from their Prelats.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But if any doe admini&s;ter or receaue the holy things of God by the offices of Pa&s;tors, and Teachers entred into and executed according to the Te&s;tament of Chri&s;t, they are reviled and per&s;ecuted.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>2. Their Prelacie, Prie&s;thoode, and Deaconry is the very meanes of thru&s;ting away and keeping out of the
<PB REF="24">Church the Mini&s;tery and order which Chri&s;t hath appoin|ted, which &s;ome of them&s;elues hereto fore haue acknowledged, and written.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. The Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies being an&s;werable to the lawes, is not a Mini&s;tery exalted in any thing, aboue the Mini&s;tery of Chri&s;t, but the very &s;ame in nature and qualitie, though in &s;ome accidents it may differ. In which difference, if ther bee any &s;inne, it is of ignorance, or infirmitie in the Mini&s;ters; which may in as high or a higher degree befall vnto the be&s;t Mini&s;ters that ever were &s;ince the Apo&s;tles times.</P>
<P N="2">2. The holy things which they admini&s;ter are the holy things of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, and not of their owne, &amp; by ver|tue of that Prie&s;thoode and Deaconry which they haue receaued they may not admini&s;ter any other holy things but what Chri&s;t Ie&s;us requireth. The other things which they admini&s;ter are iudged by them which ad|mini&s;ter them; onely things indifferent and matters of order, wherein if they which v&s;e them be deceaved, it is but &s;uch an error as worthy Martyrs of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t haue bene &s;ubject vnto, and not &s;ufficient to make their Mini&s;tery an Antichri&s;tian Mini&s;tery.</P>
<P N="3">3. The Prelats doe not per&s;ecute any true Pa&s;tors and Teachers, &s;o much for Mini&s;tering any of the holy things of Chri&s;t, as for refu&s;ing to conforme to &s;ome &s;peciall ordinances of their owne, which they doe not hould to bee holy things, but matters of order, &amp; which by rea&s;ons they haue indevoured to proue to bee &s;o: wherein the practis of Prelats is noe more extreame,
<PB REF="24">then their owne, who cen&s;ure as farr as they can, in all extremity, all them whoe doe not in al points, conforme and agree to their owne orders, ceremonies and Church policie.</P>
<P N="4">4. It can never bee proued, that the admittance of this Mini&s;tery, is a hindrance of a better, but rather it is a meanes to keepe out a wors, and away in time to bring in a better, if a better bee to be brought in, for by yeal|ding to &s;ome things that may be bettered &amp; is &s;o wi&s;hed and indeavored, a dore is opened to Mini&s;ter many holy things, which otherwi&s;e &s;hould bee &s;hut. And if it bee as lawfull, for vs to conjecture, as for him, Their general Schi&s;me and rent from this Mini&s;tery, hath bene one maine and principall meanes to vphoulde it as it is.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery which is &s;uch as in the nature and condition therof it pertaineth not to any body or e&s;tate either civill or eccle&s;ia&s;ticall but only to the body or kingdome of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The 4. Arg.</NOTE></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Such is the Mini&s;tery of their Church A&s;semblies.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>It is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;sumption is clear, in as much as their Prelacie, Prie&s;t|hood, and Deaconry; is &s;uch that the Civill State may bee perfect without, them and the Church of Chri&s;t may bee com|pleat without them, onely the body, and Kingdome of the Romi&s;h Antichri&s;t, cannot bee full and furni&s;hed in all the offices therof without them.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<PB REF="25">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>For An&s;were to the A&s;&s;umption,</P>
<P N="1">1. Concerning the Prelacie (though it bee not any Mini&s;tery of any of our Church A&s;&s;emblies, and ther|fore Idly vrged, in this and all the other Arguments) this may bee &s;aide; 1. That the principall, and mo&s;t ho|norable parts therof is onely v&s;urped by Antichri&s;t, and doth not appertaine to him, but to the Iuri&s;|diction of the Supreame Magi&s;trats, and States.</P>
<P N="2">2. That the State of a Chri&s;tian common wealth can|not bee perfect, without &s;ome generall vi&s;itors, and o|ver&s;eers of Churches. 3. That though a perticuler Church or congregation may bee compleat without them, yet for the nece&s;&s;ary vnion, and agreement of the &s;everall Churches in Chri&s;tian Provinces, and King|doms, it is fit and agreable to rea&s;on, and noe wayes re|pugnant to Gods word, that vnder the Supreame Ma|gi&s;trate ther &s;hould bee, other Governors to protect, and incorrage tho&s;e Mini&s;ters, and Churches which doe their dutie, and to puni&s;h tho&s;e which &s;hall offende. Wherin if either through warrant of humaine lawes, or &s;ome per&s;onall corruption, they &s;hall in &s;ome things pa&s;&s;e their bounds, they doe no more then any other of|ficers either Civill or Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall, through frailtie, &amp; infirmitie may doe. 4. That the kingdome of Anti|chri&s;t cannot be furni&s;hed, in all the offices therof with|out the Authority of Civill Magi&s;trats, and therfore this &s;eemes to make as much again&s;t the calling of civill Magi&s;trats as Bi&s;hops.</P>
<P N="2">2. Concerning the Mini&s;tery of our Prie&s;ts and Dea|cons,
<PB REF="25">&s;uch as it is, or by lawe ought to be in our Church A&s;&s;emblies, the Church of Chri&s;t cannot bee compleat without it; yea it is noe Church without it. Nether can the kingdome of Antichri&s;t &s;tand before it, Nether will hee ever proue the contrary.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery which is &s;uch as the body of Antichri&s;t the man of &s;inne,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The 5. Arg.</NOTE> <HI>cannot without it be compleat in all the members and canonicall functions therof is the Mini&s;tery of Autichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Such is the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of Englande.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>It is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;sumption is proued by the Canons, Pontificall, and e&s;tate of the Romi&s;h Antichri&s;t.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This Argument is but the taile of the former, &amp; ther|fore needs noe further An&s;wer, it being cut of in the an&s;wer to the former. The Canons Pontificall, &amp; State. of the Romi&s;h Antichri&s;t doe manife&s;t the countrary, which haue and doe cur&s;e and per&s;ecute with &s;worde and fier, &s;uch a Mini&s;tery as is the Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies: if it bee in all points to the intent of the law.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>The Mini&s;tery of Deacons, Prie&s;ts, and Prelates which accounts it &s;elfe to be Chri&s;ts, and yet indeed is &s;uch, as the Kings and Rulers of the Earth may and ought to &s;uppre&s;se, and roote out of their dominions, is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<PB REF="26">
<ITEM><HI>Such is their Mini&s;tery.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therefore it is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;sumption is proued in the former rea&s;on and in other Treati&s;es, and by &s;ome of them&s;elues in their Suites to Parla|ment, and if the Prelats and their conforming cleargy, deny it they are by their owne Canons exco~municated</HI> ip&s;o facto.</ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This &s;ixt Argument is borrowed from the fir&s;t Rea|&s;on wher it is brought to proue that our Mini&s;tery is not the Mini&s;tery of Pa&s;tors and Teachers, as here it is brought againe to proue, that it is the Mini&s;tery of An|tichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y; Thus then hee rea&s;oneth, the King may and ought to &s;uppre&s;&s;e this Mini&s;tery, Therfore it is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;y. But how doth hee proue, That the King ought to &s;uppre&s;&s;e this Mini|&s;tery? Hee refers vs for the proofe therof e&s;pecially to the former Rea&s;on, how doth hee proue it ther? Thus. It is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie. Therfore the king ought to &s;uppre&s;&s;e it. Is not this learned &s;tuffe?</P>
<P>Concerning his other Treati&s;es, which hee &s;o often &s;ends vs vnto, as if they were in every &s;treete and market place of the lande, wee haue not &s;o much idle time to &s;eeke after them: and wee pre&s;ume wee &s;hall find noe better &s;tuffe in them then in this; If any among&s;t vs haue put vp any &s;uch &s;uit to the Parlament, for the Abol|li&s;hing of our Mini&s;tery in generall, let them an&s;wer for them&s;elues; But the Prelats may well laugh at his &s;im|plicity, and &s;eeline&s;&s;e of wit, that thinks to fright them with &s;uch a bug-beare as this, in making them beleeue that they are by their owne Canons excommunicated
<PB REF="26"><HI>ip&s;o facto,</HI> if they deny that the King may, and ought to aboli&s;h our Mini&s;tery.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>If it bee &s;uch as &s;hall bee aboli&s;hed by the Lord throughout the power, and light of his Go&s;pell,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The 7. Arg.</NOTE> <HI>then is it the Mini&s;tery of An|tichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The fir&s;t is true.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore the latter is true al&s;o.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>The &s;ame an&s;wer will &s;erue to this Argument, that was giuen to the former; For the A&s;&s;umption is fals, The light of the Go&s;pell &s;hall more, and more, con|firme e&s;tabli&s;h, and perfect it, and remoue all the defects and blemi&s;hes in it, his profe is as ridiculous, and &s;o|phi&s;ticall, as is the former; for hee proues it by the &s;ame que&s;tion, that here it is brought to proue, for &s;o in effect proceeds his di&s;putation.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That which &s;hall bee aboli&s;hed is Antichri&s;tian.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Our Mini&s;tery &s;hall bee aboli&s;hed.</ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Ergo,</HI> It is Antichri&s;tian.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>But how doth hee for our learning proue that our Mini&s;tery &s;hall bee aboli&s;hed, very learnedly and pro|foundly thus.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That which is Antichri&s;tian &s;hall be aboli&s;hed.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Our Mini&s;tery is Antichri&s;tian.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it &s;hall be aboli&s;hed.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>For this is the effect of that idle di&s;cour&s;e of 2. or 3. leaues, viz. pag. 46.-51. tending to proue, That Anti|chri&s;t, and all his offices &s;hall be aboli&s;hed.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<PB REF="27">
<HEAD>THE THIRD REASON. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>WHat &s;oever Mini&s;tery is &s;uch none can heare or haue any &s;pirituall communion with it, but in &s;o doing hee &s;hall wor&s;hip the Image of the bea&s;t, and re|ceaue his Marke, in his forehead or hand. That Mini&s;tery may none heare, or haue any &s;pirituall communion with all.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of England, is &s;uch as none can heare or haue any &s;pirituall Communion therwith but in &s;o doing hee &s;hall wor&s;hip the Bea&s;ts ima|ge, and receaue his marke in his forehead or hand.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>None may heare or haue any Spirituall communion therwith.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This Rea&s;on for the effect and &s;ub&s;tance therof diffe|reth not from the &s;econde, for what is it (by his owne interpretation) <HI>to wor&s;hip the bea&s;ts image, but to &s;ubiect him|&s;elfe to the Mini&s;tery, and wor&s;hip of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie,</HI> and how is it po&s;&s;ible for him to proue this but by runing to the former Rea&s;ons, for their help therin.</P>
<P>For the profe of the A&s;&s;umption hee &s;ets vs downe a tedious and impertinent di&s;cours of &s;ome &s;ix leaues of paper, teaching what is meant by the bea&s;t &amp; his Image,
<PB REF="27">and by receaving the marke in the forehead or hand, The &s;ome and effect wherof is this,</P>
<P><HI>That by Bea&s;t wee are to vnder&s;tand the Romaine Dominion and Antichri&s;ts hierarchie, withall the offices, lawes,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">Pag. 51.&mdash;63.</NOTE> <HI>and autho|rity appertaining thervnto, That by wor&s;hipping the Bea&s;ts I|mage may bee vnder&s;toode the yealding of &s;pirituall &s;ubiection to that Antichri&s;tian kingdome in the lawes offices and Iuri&s;|diction therof, That by receaving the marke in the forehead or hand, is publiquely to profe&s;se and ob&s;erue them not being a &s;ha|med of the bea&s;ts wayes. And this doe all they who &s;ubmitte to the goverm~et of Prelats, Prie&s;ts, Par&s;ons, Vicars, booke wor&s;hip, &amp;c.</HI> Not to contende about this interpretation, but to &s;up|po&s;e it true, ther is nothing in &s;ub&s;tance here brought to confirme the 3. Rea&s;on, but that which is in the 2. Rea|&s;on, viz. that therfore wee wor&s;hip the bea&s;t, in commu|nicating with our Mini&s;tery, Becau&s;e it is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie. And therfore it needs noe o|ther An&s;wer, then what hath bene giuen already. Only thus much further, That for men &s;o far forth to &s;ub|mit to the Gouerment of &s;uch Prelats, &amp;c. as our lawes doe require, is not <HI>to yealde &s;pirituall &s;ubjection to the King|dom of Antichri&s;te,</HI> nor without &s;hame to profe&s;&s;e the Bea&s;ts wayes. For they may not with&s;tanding that bee &s;ubject to Chri&s;t and his lawes, and to fight again&s;t the bea&s;t. Yea though it &s;hould be graunted, that ther, in &s;undry perticulers they yeald to &s;ome things, in their v&s;e Antichri&s;tian and vnlawfull; which the be&s;t reformed Churches and Mini&s;ters, &s;ometimes of ignorance or in|firmity may doe; and yet remaine the Churches and Mini&s;tery of Chri&s;t.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<PB REF="28">
<HEAD>THE FOVRTH REASON. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>NOne may heare or joine in any Spirituall Communion with that Mini&s;tery which deriveth not their power and function of Mini&s;tery from Chri&s;t, which is the head for the edification of his Church, which is his body.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Such is the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of England.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore none may heare or joyne in Spirituall Communion therwith.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This rea&s;on is the &s;ame with the fir&s;t; for it is all one, <HI>To be derived from Chri&s;t,</HI> &amp;, <HI>To be &s;et by Chri&s;t in his Church,</HI> The other words which here hee addeth, Doth noe more vary the force of the Argument, then a new gar|ment put vpon the &s;ame witne&s;&s;e would make him a nue and different witne&s;&s;e from him&s;elfe.</P>
<P>In the profe of the A&s;&s;umption hee daubes 6. pages, bringing therin, nothing but his ould brokery, the &s;ub|&s;tance wherof is as followeth.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>1.</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">Pag. 64.&mdash;70.</NOTE> <HI>That our Mini&s;ters haue not the&s;e offices which Chri&s;t hath giuen to his Church for the worke of his Mini&s;tery.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>2. That it is the Mini&s;tery of Deacons and Prie&s;ts made by the Prelats.</HI></ITEM>
<PB REF="28">
<ITEM><HI>3. That they were left in England by the Pope, and are &s;till in the Kingdome of Antichri&s;t wher they fir&s;t ro&s;e, and theefore is devili&s;h, and by con&s;equent the more gifts and truth the Mini|&s;ters bring with them, the more the vphould the Mini&s;tery of iniquitie, and inti&s;se vnto their &s;tolne waters and hid bread.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>4. That our Church a&s;semblies are not true vi&s;ible Churches of Chri&s;t vn&s;eperated from the worlde not joyned together in Communion of the Go&s;pell by voluntary Profe&s;sion of the faith and &s;ubmi&s;sion to the Gouerment of Chri&s;t, but &s;tanding in bon|dage vnto Antichri&s;t.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>The very rehear&s;all of which rea&s;ons is an&s;wer &s;uffi|cient, he being notable to proue, any of theis a&s;&s;ertions, but either by the A&s;&s;umption it &s;elfe, that they are brought to proue or one by another circularly; Contra|rily I affirme.</P>
<P N="1">1. That ther is no ordinary Mini&s;teriall office that Chri&s;t hath giuen vnto his Church, for the worke of his Mini&s;tery, but our Mini&s;ters either haue or by our lawes ought to haue the &s;ame.</P>
<P N="2">2. That it is a Mini&s;tery as oppo&s;ite for the &s;ub&s;taunce therof, to the Mini&s;tery of Popi&s;h, Prie&s;ts, &amp; Deacons, as light is oppo&s;it to darkne&s;&s;e.</P>
<P N="3">3. That the Pope left not &s;uch Prie&s;ts, and Deacons as ours are, nor hath any &s;uch in his Kingdome; But that our Prie&s;ts and Deacons, haue bene vnder God and the Prince, the principall Per&s;ons that haue driuen, the Pope and his Prie&s;ts and Deacons, out of the Realme; That it is devili&s;h for any to &s;ay that they are devili&s;h except they can proue it by better rea&s;ons. That they that haue the be&s;t gifts, doe not intice any to &s;tolne wa|ters, or hidden bread, or to vphould any Mi&s;tery of
<PB REF="29">iniquitie; Except the Go&s;pell of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, and the true and onely meanes of &s;alvation; bee the Mi&s;tery of iniquitie.</P>
<P N="4">4. That our Church A&s;&s;emblies being &s;uch as by the lawes of the land they ought to bee; are &s;o far forth &s;e|perated from the world, joyned together in the com|munion of the Go&s;pell, by the voluntary profe&s;&s;ion of faith, &amp;c. and freed from Antichri&s;t, as is &s;ufficient to make them true vi&s;ible Churches of Chri&s;t, notwith|&s;tanding that many things may bee wanting, to the full and de&s;ired perfection of them. And I doubt not but wee &s;hall bee far more able at any time by rea&s;on out of Gods worde, to proue theis points, then ever M. Iohn|&s;on will bee to proue the contrary. And yet it were ea&s;ie to proue any thing, by &s;uch a jugling Method of Rea|&s;oning, as M. Iohn&s;on hath gotten; For hee can proue you the 1. Rea&s;on by the 2, the 2. by the 1. The 3. by the 1. and 2, the 1. and 2. by the 3. The 4. by the 1.2. &amp; 3. and every of them by the 4. and all 4. by that que&s;tion which here they are brought to proue.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<PB REF="29">
<HEAD>THE FIFT REASON. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>NOne may heare or haue any Spirituall communion with tho&s;e Mini&s;ters, which Mini&s;ter the holy things of God, and worke vpon the Con&s;ciences of men, by vertue of a fals Spirituall calling.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Such are the Mini&s;ters of the Church A&s;semblies of Englande.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>None may heare or haue any Spirituall communion with them.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This Argument which here hee brings again&s;t our Mini&s;tery, is the very &s;ame with the 2. For by <HI>a fals Spiri|tuall calling,</HI> hee meanes a calling proceeding from <HI>the Apo&s;ta&s;ie of Antichri&s;t.</HI></P>
<P>The Prepo&s;ition for brevitie &s;ake hee proues by fiue and thirtie places of Scripture: And yet who &s;oeuer &s;hall pleas to take the paines to examine them, &s;hall finde, that nether &s;everally nor joyntly, they proue the &s;ame.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption wheron the whole weight of the controver&s;ie, leaneth, hee proueth onely by the fir&s;t Ar|gument, wherby hee proued the A&s;&s;umption of the 2.
<PB REF="30">Rea&s;on viz. <HI>Becau&s;e they doe it by vertue of their Mini&s;tery re|ceaved of their Prelats, from their Spirituall Authority, which is v&s;urped and Antichri&s;tian;</HI> And this is all this witne&s;&s;e hath to &s;ay; and all the an&s;wer it needeth; Onely hee wandreth into certaine objections, and queries, groun|ded vpon &s;ome &s;uppo&s;ed defences of &s;ome of our Mi|ni&s;ters; Vnto which I will (though I neede not) giue a breif an&s;wer from point to point.</P>
<Q>Obj. <HI>Some &s;ay they preach not by vertue of their Mini&s;tery taken from the Prelats, but by vertue of &s;ome other calling and Authority.</HI></Q>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> I knowe none hauing receaued ordination from the Prelats, that neede deny that they preach partly by vertue of the Mini&s;tery which they haue taken from them; Noe though they hould the calling of Prelates vnlawfull: For what is the Mini&s;tery which they haue taken from them, for the &s;ub&s;tance therof. But (after a triall of their gifts) a libertie, and leaue graunted vnto them to preach the worde of God, and admini&s;ter the Sacraments, in &s;uch Congregations as they &s;hall bee called vnto.</P>
<Q>Obj. <HI>Why will &s;uch &s;eeme to renounce that calling, receaued of the Prelats, and yet blame vs for doing the like.</HI></Q>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> They may acknowledge a further calling, then that of the Prelats, and yet not therin renounce the cal|ling receaved from the Prelates, but rather ratifie the &s;ame; For the Prelats being learned divines, and having approued of their gifts, and by words, and letters Te&s;ti|moniall giuen, libertie to execute the Mini&s;tery of the Go&s;pell; they doe not therby thru&s;t them into a Mini|&s;tery, but they leaue them to bee further called or cho|&s;en,
<PB REF="30">either by the people, or tho&s;e Patrons, vnto who&s;e fidelitie the people haue committed this charge: And therfore this acknowledging of a further calling, ma|keth nothing to the ju&s;tification of the proude &amp; igno|rant &s;chi&s;m of this Per&s;ons.</P>
<Q>Obj. <HI>If they preach by virtue of another calling how then &s;tande they Mini&s;ters of that Church wher noe other is a+lowed, and how impo&s;e they them&s;elues vpon any of their Pa|ri&s;he A&s;semblies, &s;eing the lawes of the land allow onely the Prelacie, Prie&s;thood, and Deaconry a fore&s;aide,</HI></Q>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> Though this &s;hould be graunted (which hee in his ignora~t &s;implicitie doth &s;uppo&s;e) that &s;ome among&s;t vs, hauing bene ordained by the Prelates did exerci&s;e our Mini&s;tery, by virtue of another calling, and though the law of the land, alow noe other, yet (e&s;pecially &s;o long as they are permitted to execute their Mini&s;tery by tho&s;e in Authority, though it bee by virtue of another calling) they are to bee reputed Mini&s;ters of that Church, that hath v&s;e of their Mini&s;tery.</P>
<Q>Obj. <HI>How al&s;o herein can they avoide to bee both intruders and hipocrits, intruders in taking vpon them&s;elues a publi|que office in that Church again&s;t the publique lawes and con|&s;titutions therof, hipocrits, becau&s;e they pretend in &s;hew one thing to the Prince, and State, and yet performe another in|deede.</HI></Q>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> All theis inferences are vpon a fals &s;uppo&s;ition; yet if there were any &s;uch Per&s;ons, they could noe more therin bee &s;aid to bee intruders, and hipocrits then they of the Seperation are; For though the publique lawes &s;hould bee again&s;t any other calling, yet &s;o long as they take an office by a good calling, they cannot bee &s;aid to
<PB REF="31">intrude them&s;elues. Nether doe any &s;uch among&s;t vs (if ther bee any &s;uch) pretend in &s;hew any more then they doe indeed performe, for &s;o far forth as any differ in iudgement from the publique lawes, of the State, they are ready to profe&s;&s;e it, being called thervnto, and they practis onely that, which they iudge lawfull, being as ready, as any of the &s;eperatio~ to &s;uffer, rather then prac|tis approue, or a&s;&s;ent vnto any thing, which they judge vnlawfull, and vnwarrantable.</P>
<P>Obj. <HI>But &s;uppo&s;e they had &s;ome other lawfull calling yet they al&s;o retaining this vnlawfull calling of the Prelats this were but to halt betweene two opinions, and to &s;et their thre&s;hould by Gods thre&s;houlds and their po&s;ts by Gods po&s;ts.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> How can &s;uch bee &s;aid to retaine the vnlawfull calling of the Prelats, which prote&s;t again&s;t the &s;ame, &amp; profe&s;&s;e that they preach not by that, but by another calling? But if ther bee any &s;uch, that exerci&s;e their Mi|ni&s;tery by another calling be&s;ids that of the Prelats, they therin refu&s;e; obeidience, and conformitie to what &s;oever in the Prelats calling they judge vnlawfull, and &s;o doe not joyne an vnlawfull and a lawfull calling to|gether, but reject the corruptions, retaine the good, and &s;upplie the defect with another calling; and this is the wor&s;te that can bee made of it; But this is not to joyne mans Tre&s;houlds to Gods, &amp;c. but clean contrary, to &s;eperate them, as much as may bee; And how can they bee &s;aide to halt betweene two opinions, when &s;o far onely as the truth (in their iudgement and opinion) is e&s;tabli&s;hed by publique lawes they imbrace it, acknow|ledging their &s;ubjection to the &s;ame lawes, and contra|rily, wher they judge that the law &s;werves from the
<PB REF="31">truth, they take another cour&s;e, But &s;till hee begs this, (which is the maine controver&s;ie) that our Mini&s;ters haue receaued an vnlawfull calling from the Pre|lates.</P>
<P>In the next place hee labors to proue by rea&s;ons <HI>that how&s;oever &s;ome pretend another calling, yet it is evident, that the execute all the duties of their Mini&s;teries, by virtue of their calling taken from their Prelats;</HI> But what of that; This will &s;tand him in noe &s;teed, vnle&s;&s;e it bee given him of almes. <HI>That every Mini&s;tery executed by virtue of a calling taken from the Prelats, is an vnlawfull and an Antichri&s;tian Mini&s;terie;</HI> For proue it hee cannot, And if wee &s;hould, except this al&s;o bee given him, <HI>That our Mini&s;tery is executed ONLY by virtue of a calling taken from the Prelats;</HI> and not by any other power, or virtue be&s;ids, taken either from God or man. But let vs &s;ee his rea&s;ons.</P>
<P N="1"><HI>1. They cannot &s;tand publique Mini&s;ters except they re|ceaue of the Prelats the Prie&s;thood and Deaconry a fore|&s;aid.</HI></P>
<P N="2"><HI>2. They are excommunicated</HI> ip&s;o facto, <HI>if they affirme that they whoe are made Bi&s;hops, Deacons, and Prie&s;ts, are not lawfully made, vntill thie haue &s;ome other calling.</HI></P>
<P N="3"><HI>3. The people haue not the liberty of the Churches of Chri&s;t nor power in this their e&s;tate to cho&s;e and &s;ubmit vnto the true and lawfull Mini&s;tery appointed by Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
<P N="4"><HI>4. Without and again&s;t the peoples con&s;ent, they are by the Prelats a lone &s;ilenced, depriued, and degraded from exerci&s;iing any Mini&s;tery in tho&s;e A&s;semblies.</HI></P>
<P>Theis rea&s;ons doe not proue, That they exerci&s;e their mini&s;tery ONLY by virtue of a calling receaved fro~ the
<PB REF="32">Prelats, and therfore whether true or fals are nothing to the purpo&s;e, and vnworthy any further An&s;wer.</P>
<P>After this hee fetcheth another Rode out, and labou|reth to proue, <HI>that our Mini&s;ters ought not to &s;uffer them&s;elues to bee &s;ilenced, and depo&s;ed from their publique Mini&s;tery, no not by lawfull Magi&s;trats,</HI> which is not onely fals and &s;edi|tious; as &s;hall appeare afterwarde, but idle and imperti|nent, to the pre&s;ent controver&s;ie, for if it were true that Mini&s;ters ought not to doe in this ca&s;e, as ours doe; yet this doth not argue, any corruption in the calling of their Mini&s;tery, but a weackne&s;&s;e onely in the Per&s;ons that execute it, in yealding further from their owne right, then they neede to doe; But let vs con&s;ider the perticulers, that hee objecteth again&s;t our Mini&s;ters in this re&s;pect.</P>
<P>Obj. <HI>The Apo&s;tles being true Mini&s;ters of Chri&s;t would not at the commandement of lawfull Magi&s;trats, leaue to preach, much le&s;se &s;hould true Mini&s;ters, at the appointement of v&s;ur|ping Prelats. Nether did the Apo&s;tles make, their imediate calling from God the ground of their refu&s;all, but this, That they ought to obey God rather then man, which is a duty re|quired of all Mini&s;ters and Chri&s;tians.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> 1. Wher hee di&s;tingui&s;heth between &s;ilencing, &amp; depriving, by Prelats and lawfull Magi&s;trats, it is in our ca&s;e, wher the Prelats doe it by Authority, and commi&s;|&s;ion from lawfull Magi&s;trats; a di&s;tinction without a difference. 2. Though the Apo&s;tles did not a&s;&s;igne, their imidiate calling from God, as the ground of their refu&s;all, in &s;o many letters, and &s;illables, yet that which they doe a&s;&s;igne, is by implication, and in effect the &s;ame with it; for it is as much as if they had &s;aid; God him&s;elfe
<PB REF="32">hath impo&s;ed this calling vpon vs, and not man; &amp; ther|fore except wee &s;hould rather obey man, then God, wee may not forbeare, this office, which hee hath impo&s;ed vpon vs. For oppo&s;ing the obeidience of God to the o|beidience of man, hee therin pleads a calling from God; and not from man: otherwi&s;e if they had receaved a cal|ling from man, there had bene incongruitie in the an&s;|wer, con&s;idering that in common &s;ence and rea&s;on, they ought &s;o far forth to obey men, forbidding them to ex|erci&s;e a calling, as they exerci&s;e the &s;ame by virtue of that calling els by this rea&s;on, A Mini&s;ter &s;hould not ceas to preach, vpon the commandeme~t of the Church, that hath cho&s;en him, but &s;hould be bound to giue them al&s;o the &s;ame an&s;wer which they Apo&s;tles gaue, which were ab&s;urd. So that by this gro&s;&s;e conceit of M. Iohn&s;ons, their &s;hould bee no power, in any &s;ort of men whom&s;oever, to depo&s;e a Mini&s;ter from his Mini&s;tery, but that notwith&s;ta~ding any comandement: of Church or State the Mini&s;ter is to continue in his Mini&s;tery. But for the further an&s;wer of this his ignorant conceit plainly tending to &s;edition, wee are to know; That though the Apo&s;tles, Prophets, and Euangeli&s;ts, prea|ched publiquely where they were not hindred by open violence, And did not, nor might not leaue their Mini|&s;tery vpon any humain Authoritie and commandement what&s;oever; becau&s;e they did not enter into or exerci&s;e the &s;ame, vpon the will, and plea&s;ure of any man what|&s;oever; yet they never erected and planted <HI>publique</HI> Churches and Mini&s;teries in the face of the Magi&s;trate, whether they would or noe, or in di&s;pite of them. But &s;uch in re&s;pect of the eye of the Magi&s;trat, were as pri|vate
<PB REF="33">and invi&s;ible as might bee: Neither were &s;ome of the Apo&s;tles onely forbidden, &s;o as others &s;hould bee &s;uffered to preach the &s;ame Gho&s;pel in their places: but the vtter aboli&s;hing of Chri&s;tian Religion was mani|fe&s;tly intended in the &s;ilencing of them. But our Chur|ches wherof wee are Mini&s;ters, are noe private &amp; &s;ecreat A&s;&s;emblies, &s;uch as hide them&s;elues from the face of a per&s;ecuting Magi&s;trat, and State. But are publique pro|fe&s;&s;ing their wor&s;hip, &amp; doing their religion in the face of the Magi&s;trate and State, yea and by his contenance, authoritie and protection; And wee are &s;et over tho&s;e Churches, not onely by a calling of our people, but al&s;o by the authoritie of the Magi&s;trate who hath an armed power to hinder any &s;uch publique Action: who is wil|ling al&s;o to permitte and maintaine other true Mini|&s;ters of the Go&s;pel in tho&s;e places where hee forbiddeth &s;ome. If therfore after our publique calling, to Mini&s;ter to &s;uch a knowne and publique Church, but by the Ma|gi&s;trat al&s;o, The Magi&s;trate &s;hall haue matter again&s;t vs, (whether ju&s;t or inju&s;t it skilleth not) and &s;hall in that regard forbid vs to Mini&s;ter to our Church. I &s;ee not by what warrant in Gods word, wee &s;hould thinke our &s;elues bounde not with&s;tanding to exerci&s;e our Mini|&s;tery &s;till; Except wee &s;hould thinke &s;uch a law of Mini|&s;tery to ly vpon vs, that wee &s;hould judge our &s;elues bound, to run vpon the &s;word point of the Magi&s;trate or to oppo&s;e &s;word to &s;worde. It being not the v&s;e of the higher powers, in &s;uch ca&s;es nakedly to forbid, but to &s;et a &s;word to the brea&s;t, therby to force them, which &s;hall refu&s;e. And &s;uppo&s;e the Magi&s;trate &s;hould
<PB REF="33">doe it inju&s;tly, and again&s;t the will of the Church, and &s;hould therin &s;inne; yet doth not the Church, in that regard ceas to bee a Church, nor ought &s;hee therin to re&s;i&s;t the will of the Magi&s;trate; Nether doth &s;hee &s;tand bound in regard of her affection to her Mini&s;ter (how great and de&s;erved &s;oever) to de|prive her &s;elfe of the protection of the Magi&s;trat, by leauing her publique &s;tanding to follow her Mi|ni&s;tery in private and the darke; refu&s;ing the bene|fit of all other publique Mini&s;tery, which with the leaue and liking of the Magi&s;trate &s;hee may injoy; Nether doe I knowe what warrant any ordinarie Mini&s;ter hath by Gods worde in &s;uch a Ca&s;e &s;o to draw any &s;uch Church or people to his private Mi|ni&s;tery, that therby they &s;hould hazzard their out|ward &s;tate and quiet in the Common wealth wher they liue, when in &s;ome competent Mea&s;ure they may publiquely, with the grace and fauours of the Magi&s;trat, inioy the ordinarie meanes of their Sal|vation, by another, (and except hee haue a calling to Mini&s;ter to &s;ome other Church) to bee content to live as a private member, till it &s;hould plea&s;e God to reconcile the Magi&s;trate vnto him, and &s;o call him againe to his owne Church, laboring in meane while, privately vpon perticuler occa&s;ions offred, to &s;trengthen and cofirme, in the wayes of God tho&s;e people that are deprived of his pu|blique labours, and I take it to bee the dutie, of the people in &s;uch a ca&s;e, if they will approue
<PB REF="34">them&s;elues, faithfull Chri&s;tians, and good Subjects, &s;o to &s;ubmit to the Mini&s;tery of another, as that by prayer and all other good dutifull and loyall meanes, they may doe their be&s;t indevour to obtaine him of whom again&s;t their will, they haue bene deprived and &s;till to affect and loue him as their Pa&s;tor. Now if the people doe thus, then is that Mini&s;ter called to bee &s;ilent not onely by the Magi&s;trate, but by them al&s;o, though with much greife.</P>
<P>Obj. <HI>It is the dutie of all Mini&s;ters, and Chri&s;tians as will as Apo&s;tles, to obey God, and not man, when man forbiddeth that which God commandeth, or commandeth that which God forbiddeth.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> True, but God noe wher that I can find, com|maundeth either a Mini&s;ter to Mini&s;ter publiquely in a publique Church maintained by the Magi&s;trate, again&s;t the will, and in de&s;pite of the Magi&s;trate, noe more then again&s;t the will and in de&s;pite of the Church it &s;elfe.</P>
<P>Obj. <HI>Vriah at the commaundement of the King made an Alter after the fa&s;hion of that of Dama&s;cus but therin &s;in|ned, though hee offred theron &s;uch burnt-offrings as God had appointed; much le&s;se may the Mini&s;tery vnder the Go&s;pell, bee framed after any nue manner devi&s;ed by man lea&s;t of all after Antichri&s;t, though in that Mini&s;tery many doctrines of the Go&s;pell bee taught, and &s;uch Sacraments admini&s;tred as God hath ordained.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> This Example of Vriah the Prie&s;t is altogether impertinent, vnto that which goeth before. It being one thing vpon the commaundement of the Magi&s;trate to forbeare the publique exerci&s;e of a true Mini&s;tery, an|other thing vpon his commaundement to frame a nue
<PB REF="34">Mini&s;tery after a nue manner devized by man or Anti|chri&s;t.</P>
<P>After this hee runs out of his way againe to &s;atisfie an objection, that hee had propounded and indevoured (as far as his learning would giue him leaue) to an&s;wer before; And which doth nothing at all depend vpon any thing that goeth before in this Argument, wherin hee re&s;embles &s;ome wanton Curs, that takes delight to turne round about to catch their owne tailes; But let vs &s;ee what it is hee &s;aith.</P>
<P>Obj. <HI>Here againe concerning &s;uch as plead that they teach the truth, and many excellent points of Doctrine. It is to bee ob&s;erved, that yet none may therfore heare their Mini&s;tery vnder Coler of learning the truth becau&s;e in yealding to re|ceaue and heare it from Antichri&s;ts Mini&s;tery, They defile the Temple of God, and become the Subjects of Antichri&s;t, pag. 75.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> Wher hee againe, taketh it as matter that mu&s;t whether wee will or noe, bee graunted vnto him, <HI>That our Mini&s;tery is Antichri&s;ts Mini&s;tery,</HI> which needs noe o|ther an&s;wer then before, yet thus much further. 1. That noe Mini&s;tery what&s;oever (&s;o far forth as it teacheth the truth of Chri&s;t e&s;pecially a truth oppo&s;ite to the doctri|ne of Antichri&s;t) is the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;t; And tho|&s;e which &s;hall &s;ubmit and &s;ubject them&s;elues vnto any Mini&s;tery what&s;oever, onely &s;o far forth as they Mini|&s;ter and teach &s;uch truth, cannot therin bee &s;aid to defi|le the Temple of God, or to bee Subjects of Antichri&s;t, but bee obedient to Ie&s;us Chri&s;t.</P>
<P N="2">2. Our Mini&s;tery in divers Congregations of the land at the lea&s;t, Teach not onely <HI>many excellent points of doc|trin.</HI>
<PB REF="35">But &s;o much doctrine as is &s;ufficient to the Salva|tion of him that beleeueth the &s;ame; even all the maine fundamentall points of Salvation clearly &s;et downe in Gods word; yea and for ought any can proue to the countrary. All other le&s;&s;e nece&s;&s;ary points, &s;o far forth, as God hath revealed, and convinced their con&s;ciences of the truth of them.</P>
<P N="3">3. Tho&s;e among&s;t vs who make con&s;cience of hea|ring our Mini&s;tery, doe not heare them <HI>vnder a Colour</HI> of learning the truth, but onely to this very end, and purpo&s;e, that they <HI>might</HI> learne the truth, and therin the true way of &s;erving and wor&s;hipping God according to his owne will.</P>
<P>Obj. <HI>And not to &s;peake of the many errors &amp; fal&s;hoods which they al&s;o teach, it is no nue thing that the Mini&s;ters of Anti|chri&s;t, &s;hould in diuers things teach and bring the truth with them, for when Sathan cannot by fal&s;hood vtter his wares, ordinaunces, Mini&s;tery wor&s;hip, hee will bee glad to vtter the &s;ame by teaching the truth. pag. 75.76.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> 1. Our Errors whether for weight or member, or qualitie, are not &s;uch, &s;o great, &s;o many, but they may be fall vnto true Chri&s;tians, whether Mini&s;ters or people, yea (as M. Iohn&s;on well knoweth) many of the Martyrs of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, haue liued and died, in more and greater Errors of the &s;ame kinde, and therfore well may hee pa&s;&s;e by this point. This is but a peece of his &s;imple the|toricke, carele&s;ly to &s;eeme to pa&s;&s;e by that which hee cannot proue. For how many Errors, can hee name or number, that hee is able to ju&s;tify to be taught in the Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies? what one truth of Religion can hee name, that is not or hath not bene
<PB REF="35">(when ju&s;t occa&s;ion hath bene offred) taught by &s;ome of our Mini&s;ters? I am not ignorant that in his treati&s;es again&s;t M. A. H. and M. H. I. hee mu&s;treth a whole troup of pretended Errors, but &s;uppo&s;e them to bee &s;o many de&s;tinct Errors, how doth hee proue they are taught in our Mini&s;tery or that they are required by law to bee taught? Ther is indeed a Conformitie and Sub&s;crip|tion required to &s;ome of them, and a Canon that requi|res that the late Canons bee reade in Churches &s;ome times in the yeare, as al&s;o that the booke of Articles bee read at the fir&s;t entrance vpon an Eccle&s;ia&s;tical Church, with a te&s;tification of a&s;&s;ent vnto it: But is this Mini&s;te|rially to teach the Errors contained in the &s;aid bookes? May not a man in the weackne&s;&s;e of his judgement, and in infirmitie at his fir&s;t entrance into a calling, conforme and &s;ub&s;cribe vnto &s;ome things, not &s;o warantable, and true, and yet not teach them for truths; yea may hee not, for all that teach doctrin in it &s;elfe directly coun|trary to tho&s;e vntruths, yea and yet &s;atisfie al&s;o the minde of the law, which being humaine, and ther|fore not alwaies perfect, may commaunde that very truth to bee taught, which being thorowly followed, will de&s;troy &s;ome vntruths, which the &s;ame law al&s;o re|quires? Further it is one thing to reade the Canons to the people, therby to declare vnto them what is requi|red at their hands, by their Governors, another thing to teach, and ju&s;tifie the Errors countained in them, and to te&s;tifie an a&s;&s;ent vnto &s;ome Errors, is not Mini&s;terially to in&s;truct the people in tho&s;e Er|rors.</P>
<P N="2"><PB REF="36"> 2. Though <HI>it bee noe nue thing that the Mini&s;ters of Anti|chri&s;t, &s;hould in divers things bring the truth with them;</HI> Yet this is a nue thing and never hard of before, That the Mini&s;ters of Antichri&s;t, &s;hould teach the wholl truth of Chri&s;t Ie&s;us for the &s;ub&s;ta~ce therof. That they &s;hould oppo&s;e directly and zealou&s;ly again&s;t the maine, and foundamentall doctrins of Antichri&s;t; That they &s;hould profe&s;&s;e him to bee Antichri&s;t, and that man of &s;inne, and to the &s;heeding of their blood, &s;hould exerci&s;e their Mini&s;tery again&s;t Antichri&s;t and his kingdome, prote|&s;ting again&s;t him and his Service, were it not nue &s;traun|ge that a man &s;hould bee counted a true Subject vnto a Prince, then when hee doth openly prote&s;t again&s;t him. Counting him a v&s;urping Tirant, and imploying all the wit power and &s;trength hee hath again&s;t him? &s;uch &s;ub|jects of Antichri&s;t are our Mini&s;ters, or by the lawes &s;uch they ought to bee. Could hee bee &s;aid to bee a Mi|ni&s;ter of Chri&s;t, that yealding to &s;ome externall kites, and profe&s;&s;ing &s;ome doctrines of Chri&s;tian faith, doth not with&s;tanding, directly, openly and profe&s;&s;edly, re|nounce Chri&s;t and his Seruice, and profe&s;&s;e him&s;elfe to bee an enemie to him, and his Kingdome, If it hould not in the one, it is not both a nue and &s;trang thing that it &s;hould hould in the other.</P>
<P N="3">3. M. Iohn&s;on out of his knowledge mu&s;t teach vs; how Sathan can be &s;aid, by teaching the truth to vtter his owne Mini&s;tery, or wor&s;hip, or how a Sathanicall Mini&s;tery can be vttered when in and by the Mini&s;tery, nothing but the truth of Chri&s;t is admini&s;tred; what is the Mini&s;tery of Sathan but the Mini&s;tery of Error? how can the Mini&s;tery of Error bee vttered by teaching
<PB REF="36">the Truth? or how can a Mini&s;tery be &s;aid to be vttered, by a truth, when it is the Mini&s;tery it &s;elfe that vttereth the truth, Surely noe more then a Marchandize can bee &s;aid to bee vttered by &s;elling of wares, and were it not a wonder, if a man &s;hould vtter his bad Marchandice, by &s;elling good &amp; &s;ound wares? Sathan and Antichri&s;t in|deed together with &s;ome truths, &s;eeke to vtter much fal&s;hoode, which otherwi&s;e (they knowe) would not be receaued: And many of our Mini&s;ters are content to yeald to &s;ome things which they judge not &s;o counve|nient (if it did otherwi&s;e &s;ome good to the State) to the end they may vtter the truth. But that like Antichri&s;t and Sathan our Mini&s;ters &s;hould propound this vnto them&s;elues, to teach &s;ome truths to this end that they might, therby vtter fal&s;hood and lies, fals Mini&s;teries &amp; wor&s;hips is a Malitious imputation, and can never bee ju&s;tified.</P>
<P>Obj. <HI>Beza &s;aith, Though Antichri&s;t teach the truth (which &s;ometimes hee doth) to the end hee may more ea&s;ily &s;educe to beleeue his lies, yet wee are to &s;toppe our eares again&s;t him, lea&s;t vnder his pretence, wee bee deceaved by him. pag. 76.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> Well, but it is yet to proue, That our Mini&s;ters are Antichri&s;ts, and that they teach the truth to any &s;uch wicked intent; the contrary is manife&s;t, when many of them in regard of the times, are countent, to yealde to &s;ome colourable vntruths, that they might therby pur|cha&s;e libertie vnto them&s;elues, to aduance the truth of Chri&s;t, They yeald to &s;ome things in appearance Anti|chri&s;tian, that they might with more libertie fight a|gain&s;t Antichri&s;t.</P>
<P>Obj. <HI>Who knoweth not that Antichri&s;t and his Mini&s;ters
<PB REF="37">are hipocriticall frends to Chri&s;t vnder the name of Chri&s;t fighting again&s;t him.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;.</HI> But who knoweth not that our Mini&s;ters, if they bee &s;uch as our lawes require them to bee, are &s;worn e|nemies to Antichri&s;t, and in the name of Chri&s;t, and vn|der &s;ome of Antichri&s;ts owne Rites doe fight again&s;t him and re&s;i&s;t him vnto blood; And who knoweth not, that many of them haue died for Chri&s;t at the foot of Antichri&s;t.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>THE SIXT ARGVMENT.</HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>IF the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church of Englande bee a &s;trange Mini&s;tery, then is it not lawfull in the wor&s;hip of God, to heare it, or haue any Spirituall communion ther|with.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But &s;uch is the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of England.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore it is not lawfull in the wor&s;hip of God to heare it, or haue any Spirituall Communion therwith.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;sumption is manife&s;t, for a &s;trange Mini&s;tery is that which is not by the law ordained, and giuen for that worke, as them&s;elues here to fore haue publi&s;hed, and as is proued in the fir&s;t Rea&s;on.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This Rea&s;on differreth not in &s;ub&s;tance from divers of the former, for what is it to bee a &s;trang Mini&s;tery, but to be a Mini&s;tery that is not &s;et by Chri&s;t in his Church
<PB REF="37">which is his 1. Rea&s;on. But to bee a Mini&s;tery which de|riveth not the power and function from Chri&s;t, which is his 4. Rea&s;on. But to bee a Mini&s;tery that worketh v|pon mens con&s;ciences by virtue of a fals Spirituall cal|ling which is his 5. Rea&s;on. Might hee not with as greate facility out of this method of rea&s;oning haue brought forth 7000. Rea&s;ons as theis &s;eaven. But how doth hee proue the A&s;&s;umption of his rea&s;on? by &s;ending vs back againe (as you may &s;ee) to the fir&s;t Rea&s;on. So that all the rea&s;on of this Rea&s;on is borrowed from the 1. Rea|&s;on and is an&s;wered all ready in the An&s;wer therof.</P>
<P>But before hee pa&s;&s;eth to the next rea&s;on, hee runs out after the wonted fa&s;hion, into an idle di&s;cours, no|thing at all appertaining to the Argument in hand, brin|ging in &s;ome idle ob&s;ervations vpon the Story of Co|rah, Dathan, and Abiram, &amp; al&s;o of Naaman, fal&s;ly Mi&s;|applied vnto our Church A&s;&s;emblies &amp; Mini&s;tery. For hee taking it as graunted, or as a thing that could not be denied him, That our Mini&s;tery is Antichri&s;tian, &amp; that our wor&s;hip is Idolatry, hee makes our Mini&s;ters, &amp; peo|ple even the be&s;t of them wors then Corah, Dathan, &amp; Abiram and them which were of their con&s;piracy, and our A&s;&s;emblies and wor&s;hip as bad as the Temple of Rimmon, and the idolatry therin performed. And wher hee brings the example of Naaman, as brought by &s;ome of vs to ju&s;tifie our joining with our Church A&s;&s;emblies I per&s;uade my &s;elfe he doth again&s;t the knowledge and light of his owne con&s;cience bely vs; &amp; that ther cannot be one of vs brought forth, that ever made this plea; we hould it as vnlawful (as them&s;elues) outwardly &amp; but in appearance to joyne with Idolators, in their Idolatry: &amp;
<PB REF="38">wee &s;ee noe warrant why for every perticuler Act, that in a large &s;ence is Idolatrous, adjoined to Gods true wor&s;hip, wee &s;hould forbeare our pre&s;ence, at the true wor&s;hip it &s;elfe. Or that our pre&s;ence, for the true wor|&s;hips &s;ake alone, &s;hould in re&s;pect of &s;ome point of fal&s;e wor&s;hip thervnto a nexed bee (as hee &s;peaketh) <HI>the &s;ub|mitting our bodies to a &s;trang wor&s;hip.</HI> E&s;pecially when wee are not perticuler Actors in it, but onely pre&s;ent, be|houlding it with greife, and &s;uffering it in others for the true wor&s;hip &s;ake vnto which it is adjoined, If this &s;hould bee held vnlawfull; then can noe man pre&s;ent him&s;elf with a good con&s;cience, at any publique wor|&s;hip of God wher&s;oever. Becau&s;e (except it &s;hould be &s;tinted and pre&s;cribed, which M. Iohn&s;on holds to bee a fals wor&s;hip) hee can haue noe a&s;&s;eurance, but that &s;ome errors in matter or forme will bee committed; yea if hee bee a man of vnder&s;tanding, and learning, hee may pre&s;ume in a ma~ner, that in the publique wor&s;hip, &s;ome error or other in matter or forme, greater or le&s;&s;er will bee committed, before which he mu&s;t pre&s;ent him&s;elfe. But what? were the Iewi&s;h Sinagoges in Chri&s;ts time free from all parts of fals wor&s;hip? the Scripture wit|ne&s;&s;eth the contrary. Did they when Chri&s;t came into them, for beare their A&s;&s;emblies? The Scripture confir|mes the contrary, was Chri&s;t pre&s;ence then (as heere he &s;aith our pre&s;ence is) <HI>a very bowing downe vnto them? was hee al&s;o therin an vncon&s;cionable di&s;sembler.</HI> Did hee therin <HI>imbrace the bo&s;ome of Strangers? breake his couenant, goe a whoreing with the inventions of man.</HI> For (&s;uch fiere as this hee &s;pits at vs) if not, why &s;hould it bee &s;uch a &s;in in vs? who haue not &s;uch eyes to pearce into the impiety of mans traditions, as our Saviour had.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<PB REF="38">
<HEAD>THE SEAVENTH Rea&s;on. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>IF the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church of Englande bee not from Heaven, but of men, then is it not lawfull in the wor&s;hip of God to heare or haue any Spirituall Commu|nion therwith.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Such is the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of Englande.</HI> Ergo, <HI>It is not lawfull in the wor&s;hip of God to haue any Spi|rituall communion therwith.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The A&s;sumption is evident, becau&s;e God hath not appointed the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies, but man, as appeares by their booke or ordination, And if they will &s;ay the contrary, let them&s;hew their callings out of the word of God.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This Rea&s;on is the very &s;ame with the 4.5. and 6. and hath noe ground, or profe but from them: And therfore is An&s;wered al&s;o in the An&s;wer of them. And this may bee &s;ufficient to &s;hew, that our Mini&s;tery is from Hea|ven, when &s;o malitious, and excerci&s;ed an Adver&s;ary who&s;e whole Religion &s;eemes to lie in oppo&s;ing to our Mini&s;tery, can &s;ay noe more again&s;t it.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="answer">
<PB REF="39">
<HEAD>THE SECOND SORT OF REASONS TAKEN AS is pretended forth of our owne Writers. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV2 TYPE="part">
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>THE FIRST ARGVMENT TAKEN from the twelue Arguments. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>AL will-wor&s;hip is Sinne.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>To heare or communicate with the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of Englande, in Church Ser|vice in manner and forme pre&s;cribed, is a will-wor&s;hip.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore to heare or communicate with that Mini&s;tery is Sinne.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This Sillogi&s;me is Sophi&s;ticall, con&s;i&s;ting plainely of foure termes, Except hee make his conclu&s;ion this. <HI>Ther fore to heare or communicate with that Mini&s;tery in manner
<PB REF="39">and forme pre&s;cribed is a Sinne.</HI> For the third Argument being <HI>wil-wor&s;hip.</HI> Al the other terms they being no parts therof, mu&s;t bee in the conclu&s;ion: If &s;o bee the &s;illogi&s;|me bee true as every Sophoming boy, in the vniver&s;itie knoweth: And therfore hee mu&s;t either exclude them out of the A&s;&s;umption, or include them in the conclu|&s;ion, which hee cannot doe, it being his intent, by theis Arguments to proue it a &s;inne to communicate ther|with not onely <HI>in manner or forme pre&s;cribed,</HI> but any o|ther way, And therfore hee Sophi&s;tically, or rather in ignorant and witle&s;&s;e &s;implicity, concluds a generall from a Speciall thus,
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>It is a will-wor&s;hip to communicate with our Mini&s;tery in manner and forme pre&s;cribed.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore it is a &s;inne to communicate therwith whether in manner or forme pre&s;cribed or any other way.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
<P>Wheras a Childe may knowe this, That an Action donne in &s;ome manner and forme pre&s;cribed may bee a will-wor&s;hip and a &s;inne, which donne otherwi&s;e may bee true wor&s;hip; A man may therfore (if neede bee) graunt both his premi&s;es and deny his conclu&s;ion. Ne|ther will it help him, that the Author of the 12. Argu|ments, concluded again&s;t the Ceremonies, in the &s;ame forme of words, that hee doth here again&s;t the Mini&s;te|ry, It being plain by the &s;cope of his wholl di&s;putation, That though hee do not expre&s;&s;e tho&s;e words <HI>in manner and forme pre&s;cribed,</HI> in the conclu&s;ion; That yet hee vn|der&s;tandeth them, It being not his purpo&s;e to di&s;pute ab&s;olutely again&s;t all v&s;e of them, but again&s;t the v&s;e of them, in that manner and forme that they are pre&s;cri|bed.</P>
<PB REF="40">
<P> But what&s;oever his Conclu&s;ion is, The A&s;&s;umption is fals, yea though it &s;hould bee graunted that in our Mi|ni&s;tery ther is &s;ome will-wor&s;hip performed; yet let vs &s;ee how hee proues the A&s;&s;umption.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>All parts of divine wor&s;hip and Service impo&s;ed onely by the will and plea&s;ure of man vpon the Communicants in divine &s;ervice and that of nece&s;sitie to bee donne, is will-wor&s;hip.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But to heare and Communicate, with the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of Eugland, in Church Service in manner and forme pre&s;cribed, are &s;uch parts of divine wor|&s;hip, as is a fore&s;aid.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>To heare and Communicate with the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;&s;emblies of England in manner and forme pre&s;|cribed is a will-wor&s;hip.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>The Propo&s;ition is taken forth of the 12. Argumentes and therfore needs noe An&s;wer.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is fals, But hee proueth it thus,
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. <HI>Man impo&s;eth this Mini&s;tery vpon man, and God in his word hath not appointed the&s;e offices and Callings, Nether required any to communicate with them in Church Service in manner and forme pre&s;cribed.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>And 2. the people &s;tand bound to heare, and communicate with them vpon paine of Su&s;pen&s;ion, deprivation, &amp;c. and God mu&s;t haue noe &s;olemne wor&s;hip in England except it be with communion to the &s;ame.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>Ergo, <HI>To heare and communicate with the pre&s;ent Mini&s;tery,
<PB REF="40">&amp;c. is a part of divine wor&s;hip impo&s;ed as a fore &s;aide.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
<P>The fir&s;t part of the Anticedent is fals and is not proued by any ground taken from the 12. Arguments, for not man onely, but God al&s;o hath impo&s;ed this Mi|ni&s;tery, and hath appointed for the &s;ub&s;tance therof their offices &amp; Callings of the Mini&s;ters of our Church A&s;&s;emblies; And hath required vs to communicate with them in Church Service, in that forme and manner, which the law in the true meaning therof, pre&s;cribes, &amp; which many at the lea&s;t doe practis.</P>
<P>Nether doth the con&s;equent follow vpon the &s;econd part of the Antecedent, for though humaine lawes vn|der never &s;o great puni&s;hments, &s;hould bind vs to never &s;o great corruptions in Gods Service; yet &s;o lang as wee doe not actually communicate in tho&s;e corruptions, but onely in the true parts of Gods wor&s;hip, our communi|cating is never the wors; for the &s;aid lawes of men, but rather the better. Nether doe wee herein &s;tand more bound, then M. Iohn&s;on and his people doe, when they are in theis dominions: So that it makes as much again&s;t communicating with their Mini&s;tery as ours: Though therfore (as the Author of the 12. Arguments hath in+devoured to proue) the Ceremonies in Controver&s;ie &s;hould be held to be a will-wor&s;hip, and therfore a &s;in to v&s;e them in Gods wor&s;hip, yet it followeth not, by the &s;ame Argument that it is a &s;inne, to communicate with the Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies, noe though it &s;hould v&s;e the &s;aid Ceremonies, much le&s;&s;e, wher and when it v&s;eth them not, as in &s;ome places, or at &s;ome times it doth not, nether is it by law required &s;o to doe.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<PB REF="41">
<HEAD>THE SECOND REASON taken from the twelue Arguments. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>IT is a &s;inne again&s;t God for Chri&s;tians to pertake with the Mini&s;tery of &s;uch, as accounting thom&s;elues to bee Ser|vants of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, yet doe in the execution of their Mini&s;tery giue &s;peciall honor to Antichri&s;t, and his officers.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the Mini&s;tery of the Church of England is &s;uch.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore it is a &s;inne for Chri&s;tians to pertake therwith.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>Fir&s;t I deny the Propo&s;ition, The true and be&s;t Mini|&s;ters of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, that ever were or &s;hall bee &s;ince the Apo&s;tles, may in their ignorance, or weacknes, do &s;ome act in their Mini&s;try, that may bring &s;ome &s;peciall ho|nor to Antichri&s;t, and yet Chri&s;tians may lawfully, and without &s;inne pertake with &s;uch in their Mini&s;tery. It being not nece&s;&s;ary, that who &s;oever pertaketh, with a
<PB REF="41">Mini&s;tery &s;hould pertake al&s;o with the accidentall cor|ruptions therof.</P>
<P>Hee tels vs like a bould and blind biard. <HI>That the Pro|po&s;ition is manife&s;t and clear to any that haue an ey of Rea&s;on, and any light of divinitie &s;hining in it.</HI> And yet it hath not &s;o much as any colour of truth, but in the eyes of &s;uch owles and bats as him&s;elfe is;
<MILESTONE N="2" UNIT="Arg."> The Propo&s;ition in the twelue Arguments vnto which hee would equall and paralel his, is this, <HI>It is a &s;inne again&s;t God, for him that is by way of excellency a Servant of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t (without a preci&s;e and directe warrant from him at any time e&s;pecially in the So|lemne wor&s;hip of God) to give &s;peciall honour to Antichri&s;t and his members;</HI> What? mu&s;t it needs follow vpon this, That it is a &s;inne to pertake any manner of way with &s;uch a ones Mini&s;tery, as &s;hall in any mea&s;ure commit &s;uch a &s;inne? mu&s;t the joining with them in any other parts of their Mini&s;tery needs bee a communicating with them in this &s;inne? Hee bids vs <HI>&s;ee for this 2. Cor. 6.14.17. Rev. 18.4.</HI> but what is this to the twelue Arguments, from which hee &s;aith this rea&s;on is taken? And to what end &s;hould wee &s;ee tho&s;e places, except hee had fir&s;t made vs to &s;ee, That our Mini&s;ters in their Mini&s;tery are Infi|dels and Belials. That their Mini&s;tery for the &s;ub&s;tance therof is <HI>vnrighteou&s;nes</HI> and <HI>darkne&s;&s;e.</HI> That the God wee &s;erued in our Mini&s;tery is an Idoll, That our A&s;&s;emblies are Babylon. And all this becau&s;e &s;ome thing happily is donne, by our Mini&s;ters, which (and yet contrary to their intent) is &s;ome honour to Antichri&s;t. For except all this bee graunted vnto him, theis Texts are of noe force to confirme the Prepo&s;ition.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is as fals as the Propo&s;ition,
<PB REF="42">Nether doth it follow from the A&s;&s;umption, of that Argument of the 12. from which hee would ground it. For though it &s;hould bee graunted, <HI>That to v&s;e the Cere|monies in Controver&s;ie in manner and forme pre&s;cribed were to give &s;peciall honors to Antichri&s;t and his officers.</HI> Yet it doth not follow, That the Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;em|blies, are &s;uch that in the execution of their Mini&s;tery giue &s;peciall honour to Antichri&s;t, and his officers. For &s;ome of our Mini&s;ters, from whom hee &s;eperateth, do not in the execution of their Mini&s;tery v&s;e the &s;aid Ce|remonies at any time, Nether do any of our Mini&s;ters at all times in the execution therof, v&s;e them, nether are required &s;o to doe. The A&s;&s;umption not-with&s;tanding hee proceedeth to proue thus.</P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>Such a Conformitie to Antichri&s;t and his officers as is not onely be&s;ids the word of God, but in a &s;peciall manner derogatory to all reformed Churches that haue departed from the Synago|gue of Rome, is a &s;peciall honour to Antichri&s;t and his Offi|cers.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But the Execution of the Mini&s;tery of the Church of Englande is &s;uch.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>The Execution of that Mini&s;tery in manner a fore&s;aid is to giue &s;peciall honour to Antichri&s;t and his officers.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>The Propo&s;ition is word for word in a manner taken out of the 12. Arguments. And therfore for this contro|ver&s;ie not to bee &s;tood vpon, whether it be true, or fals.</P>
<PB REF="42">
<P> The A&s;&s;umption is fals, and hath noe ground at all from the 12. Argumets. For though it &s;hould be graun|ted. <HI>That to v&s;e the Ceremonies in Controver&s;ie in divine wor|&s;hip is &s;uch a Conformitie to Antichri&s;t, and his members,</HI> as is &s;pecified in the Propo&s;ition; yet noe man except hee haue &s;ome Crack in his braine, can from thence inferre, That the execution of our Mini&s;tery, is &s;uch a confor|mitie, e&s;pecially then when in the execution therof, they doe not v&s;e the &s;aid Ceremonies, which none doe at all times, and &s;ome doe never.</P>
<P>Hee proceeds to proue the A&s;&s;umption, not by any ground taken from the <HI>12. Arguments,</HI> but by &s;ome of the fragements of his owne former rea&s;onles rea&s;ons, and therfore the maine i&s;&s;ue of the Argume~t, lying not vpon any thing, in the &s;aid Arguments. This &s;econd rea&s;on of his, cannot bee &s;aid to bee taken from the 12. Arguments. And therfore they are noe wi&s;e guilty of his &s;chi&s;me, nor doe any wayes herein this place, patro|nize the &s;ame.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<PB REF="43">
<HEAD>THE THIRD REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE TWELVE Arguments the London Mini&s;ters exceptions, and the Abridgement, &amp;c. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>IF &s;uch bee the State of the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;sem|blies of England, as they are bound in their Mini&s;tra|tion vnto &s;uch things, as the v&s;ing of them in Church Service, in manner and forme pre&s;cribed, is a will-wor&s;hip, a giving of &s;pecially honour to Antichri&s;t and his members, a performing of honours more then Civill, even Religions, onely to a humaine power, a warranting of the like v&s;e of Iewi&s;h, Turki&s;h, Pagani&s;h or Popi&s;h ob&s;ervations; a doing of Scy&s;maticall Actions, an hauing of Spirituall Communion with Papi&s;ts, in the Mi&s;teries of their Idolatry, and Super|&s;tition, Amingling of prophane things with divine, an v&s;ing of vnlawfull things in divine wor&s;hip; An admini&s;tring of Sacraments, that are not of divine in&s;titution. A &s;olemne ac|knowledging of Speciall homage, to the Spirituall v&s;urped authoritie of Lord Bi&s;hops, an v&s;ing of humaine Traditions in Gods wor&s;hip as nece&s;&s;ary to &s;alvation, an apparent meanes of the damnation of many Soules. An ob&s;erving of a lieturgy
<PB REF="43">which in the wholl matter, and forms therof, is too like vnto the ma&s;se booke, &amp;c. Then is it not lawfull to communicate with the Mini&s;ters in their Mini&s;tery.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But &s;uch is the e&s;tate of the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of Englande.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore it is not lawfull to communicate with them therin.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>M. Iohn&s;on thinks &s;urely, that in this Argument hee hath out of our owne writings, for ever di&s;graced our Mini&s;tery; But whether here or in the Arguments fol|lowing, he deale faithfully with our writers, I know not, his bad dealing in this kinde, wee haue di&s;coured in part before, and doth mo&s;t evidently appeare in one perticu|ler following, wherein hee mo&s;t &s;hamfully and lewdly, as a man void of all common hone&s;ty and grace, ma|keth the Mini&s;ters of Lincolne to affirme,
<NOTE PLACE="marg">See pag. 98.</NOTE> <HI>That the Pre|lats are reveiled to bee great Antichri&s;ts, and their Mini&s;tery, and con&s;titution, to bee great troublers of the Church at this day, and that it cannot but bee very &s;infull and hurtfull, to re|taine or communicate with them.</HI> The Devill him&s;elfe would haue bene a &s;hamed in this open manner to haue tould &s;uch a ly, and therfore hee is to bee tru&s;ted, no fur|ther, then hee is &s;eene; And herein his lewdne&s;&s;e is the more to bee &s;u&s;pected, That wher hee rehear&s;eth many har&s;h, bitter, and vn&s;auory &s;peaches again&s;t our Mini&s;tery and wor&s;hip, as written by &s;ome of our &s;elues, that retaine communion with the Mini|&s;tery, and wor&s;hip of our Church A&s;&s;emblies; Hee doth not quote the perticuler places, but onely refers
<PB REF="44">vs to the Authors in generall, as though we had nothing els to doe, but to reede ouer wholl bookes to finde out his Allegations, or that wee mu&s;t take them vpon his word to bee faithfully reported. But let vs &s;uppo&s;e, that our men haue &s;o written; yet ther is noe con&s;equent in the Propo&s;ition: For what if our Mini&s;tery were bound to &s;ay Ma&s;&s;e, to &s;ing Mattins. To wor&s;hip the Virgin Mary. To acknowledge the Popes Supremacie, &amp;c. yet for all that it might bee lawfull to Communicate with our Mini&s;ters, in their Mini&s;tery: Except that in the exe|cution of their Mini&s;tery they &s;ubmitted vnto that which they were bound vnto. It being one thing, to bee bound, and another thing to fulfill the bonde; he might contrarily with as much witt and vnder&s;tanding haue rea&s;oned thus, <HI>If this bee the e&s;tate of the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;&s;emblies of Rome, that they are bound in their admi|ni&s;tration, to the renouncing of Antichri&s;t, and all his Idolatry, offices, and will-wor&s;hip; to conforme onely, in their Mini&s;tery to the Go&s;pell of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, and to &s;uch or dinances as are agrea|ble to the &s;ame, then it is lawfull to communicate with them in their Mini&s;tery and wor&s;hip.</HI> M. Iohn&s;on would quickly di&s;|cerne the incon&s;equence of this Propo&s;ition; And why? becau&s;e in the execution of their Mini&s;tery, they fulfill not this bound; And yet hee cannot deny, but that they are, by a &s;tranger bond, even a divine bond, bounde vnto this, then our Mini&s;ters to the contrary.</P>
<P>The con&s;equent hee &s;aith is proued by the <HI>Mini&s;ters of Lincolne&s;hire, Abridgement pag. 17.</HI> But to pa&s;&s;e by his depraving of them before touched, noe &s;uch matter can bee concluded from the words, which hee here citeth, yea though hee had dealt faith-fully in the citation of
<PB REF="44">them. For though it &s;hould bee graunted that &s;ome act of &s;pirituall fornication &s;hould bee donne in our Mini|&s;tery,
<Q>That wee are to &s;eperate from Idolators and Anti|chri&s;tians, and to bee as vnlike them as may bee, in their religious ob&s;ervations, Though God doe beare a dete|&s;tation of Idolatry, and all the Inticements therof, as vnto &s;peciall whoredome. Though wee ought to bee a &s;hamed of the monuments of Idolatry, and ca&s;t them away with dete&s;tation. Though wee &s;hould bee in &s;ome danger by them to bee corrupted in Religion, by con|forming vnto Idolators in their Mini&s;tery and wor&s;hip. Though keeping communion with &s;uch Mini&s;ters &s;hould be a &s;peciall meanes to harden them in their &s;ins. Though the Prelats were revealed to bee great Anti|chri&s;ts. Though the Godly learned haue con&s;tantly taught, that Chri&s;tians are bound to for&s;ake and ca&s;t of the Mini&s;tration, Ceremonies, and religious cu&s;tomes of Pagan, Iewes, Antichri&s;tian Idolators, and Hereticks, and carefully to &s;hum all conformity with them therin;</Q> Yet it doth not therupon follow, <HI>That if the Mini&s;ters of our Church A&s;semblies bee bound as a fore&s;aid, that then it is not lawfull to communicate with them in their Mini&s;tery.</HI></P>
<P>M. Iohn&s;on therfore mu&s;t bee put to this paines, To proue this con&s;equent.</P>
<P>For further profe of the former con&s;equent, he brin|geth &s;ix Rea&s;ons more out of his owne ould and fu&s;ty horn of &s;tore which proue the con&s;equent ju&s;t a <HI>baculo ad augulum.</HI> To which it &s;hall bee needle&s;&s;e to giue aun&s;|wer, they being profes clean be&s;ids the purpo&s;e of theis rea&s;ons, which is to ju&s;tify their &s;chi&s;me by grounds ta|ken from our owne writings.</P>
<PB REF="45">
<P> The Con&s;equent then of the Propo&s;ition being evi|dently fals, The A&s;&s;umption though it &s;hould haue ne|ver &s;o much ground from our owne writings, wil &s;tande him in noe &s;tead.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>THE FOVRTH REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE ADMO|nitions to the Parlament. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>IF the Offices of Arch Bi&s;hops, Arch Deacons, Lord Bi&s;hops, Suffraces, Par&s;ons, Vicars, &amp;c. bee Antichri&s;tian and contrary to the Scriptures, then the people of God may not communicate with them in their Mini&s;tery.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
<LIST>
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<ITEM><HI>The fir&s;t is true.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>The later al&s;o.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>The Con&s;equent is fals, and hee goeth not about to proue it, by any thing taken out of our owne writings but by a &s;tale profe that hath bene an&s;wered before; and therfore it requires noe an&s;wer, onely thus much of free bountie. That the offices of Arch Bi&s;hops &amp;c. <HI>quatenes ta|les,</HI> are not of the e&s;&s;ence of the Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies but meere Accidents.</P>
<PB REF="45">
<P> The A&s;&s;umption therfore will &s;tand him in noe &s;teed whether it bee true or fals, and therfore I leaue it to their maintenance from whom hee &s;aith hee borroweth it.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>THE FIFT REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE offer of Conference. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>IF the Propo&s;itions propounded to bee maintained in the of|fer of Conference bee true,</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg">To avoid te|diou&s;nes, I forbeare to &s;et them downe as M <HI>Iohn&s;on</HI> hath done, but thou &s;halt di&s;cern what they are after|ward in the An&s;wer.</NOTE> <HI>then is it not lawfull to heare or haue any &s;peciall Communion with the pre&s;ent Mini|&s;tery of the Church A&s;semblies of Englande.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But tho&s;e Propo&s;itions are true.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Ergo,</HEAD>
<P><HI>It is not lawfull to haue any Speciall Communion with the &s;ame.</HI></P>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>The Con&s;equent is fals; &amp; doth not follow from the &s;aid Propo&s;itions.</P>
<P N="1">1. Though it &s;hould be graunted, <HI>That all matters mee|rely Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall, lawfully impo&s;ed vpon any Church are &s;uch as may bee concluded nece&s;&s;arily from the written word of God.</HI>
<PB REF="46">Yet in a true con&s;tituted Church &s;ome matters meerely Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall may bee impo&s;ed through humaine frail|ty, that cannot &s;o bee concluded.</P>
<P N="2">2. Though, <HI>all humaine ordinances v&s;ed onely or &s;pecially in Gods wor&s;hip, whervnto they are not nece&s;sary of them&s;elues were &s;imply vnlawfull.</HI> Yet is not every &s;uch humaine or|dinance of that nature, that it maketh the Church and Mini&s;tery wher it is v&s;ed, to bee a fals Church, and Mi|ni&s;tery, much le&s;&s;e tho&s;e Churches, and that Mini&s;tery, wherin it is not v&s;ed, but injoined onely.</P>
<P N="3">3. Though it were generally graunted of all, <HI>That eve|ry true vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t is &s;uch a Spirituall body politick as is &s;pecially in&s;tituted by Chri&s;t, or his Apo&s;tles in the new Te&s;tament.</HI> Yet it will not thence follow, That tho&s;e Churches, and Mini&s;teries are not to bee communica|ted withall, that haue any thing in or appertaining to the con&s;titution therof not in&s;tituted by Chri&s;t; or that &s;uch Churches are not true vi&s;ible Churches.</P>
<P N="4">4. Though, <HI>every true vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t or ordinary A&s;semblie of the faithfull, hath by Chri&s;ts ordinance power in it &s;elfe immedialy vnder Chri&s;t, to elect and ordaine, deprive and depo&s;e, their Mini&s;ters, and to execute all other Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Cen&s;ures.</HI> Yet will it not follow from thence, That all they are fals Churches, and not to bee communicated with all. That doe not or by the lawes of man are not &s;uffred to v&s;e that power, Nether is it &s;ure the meaning of them who offer the Conference, To maintaine, That they are no true vi&s;ible Churches of Chri&s;t that cannot v&s;e that power; but are therein &s;ubject to others; for one may by Chri&s;ts ordinance haue a power to doe that which yet in regard of man he hath noe power to doe.</P>
<P N="5"><PB REF="46"> 5. Though, <HI>the Pa&s;tor of a perticuler congregation &s;hould be yealded to bee the highe&s;t ordinary Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall officer in any true con&s;tituted vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t.</HI> Yet ca~ it not hence bee concluded, That tho&s;e Pa&s;tors are fals Pa&s;tors, who are outwardly by mans lawes, &s;ubjected to a Superior Eccle&s;ia&s;tical officer. The Father ordinary is the highe&s;t officer in the family; yet if the Magi&s;trate &s;ubject the fa|ther in &s;ome matters appertaining to the family to ano|ther, Though therin it may bee hee may doe the father &s;ome wrong, yet doth not the father therby become a fals father, or the family a fals family. Admitte then that this prerogatiue due to Pa&s;tors, to haue noe Spiri|tuall officers &s;uperior vnto them, yet is it not &s;o e&s;&s;ential vnto him, that without the Actuall v&s;e and po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion of it, hee cannot bee a true Pa&s;tor; And yet take a true vi&s;i|ble Church in that &s;ence, which the officers of the con|ference doe viz. for a perticuler ordinary A&s;&s;embly or Congregation, And then in our owne Churches, The Pa&s;tor is the hige&s;t, ther being noe Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Offi|cer in any &s;uch Churches, a boue him.</P>
<P N="6">6. Graunt this, <HI>That it is the office of every true. Pa&s;tor to teach and Governe Spiritually one Congregation immediately vnder Chri&s;t.</HI> Can it from hence bee concluded, That they are noe true Pa&s;tors, which governe more congre|gations then one, or which are &s;ubject in &s;ome outward things to &s;ome others be&s;ids Chri&s;t.</P>
<P N="7">7. Admit, <HI>That the offices of Provinciall and dioce&s;an Bi|&s;hops were contrary to the word of God;</HI> mu&s;t it needs ther v|pon follow, That tho&s;e Mini&s;ters, and Churches which are vnder them by the lawes of man, are fals: &s;uch e&s;pe|cially who obey them onely in things which they judge
<PB REF="47">hone&s;t, and lawfull, and who vnder this &s;ubjection doe no more then they would doe, if they were not &s;ubject at all vnto the Bi&s;hops.</P>
<P>A man mu&s;t therfore bring a better head, &amp; wit with him, then M. Iohn&s;ons, That by the Propo&s;itions of the <HI>offer of Conference</HI> (how har&s;h &s;oeuer they may &s;eeme to bee) can conclude it vnlawfull to joine and communi|cate with our Church A&s;&s;emblies.</P>
<P>For the profe of this con&s;equent he bringeth nothing out of our owne writings, but onely to giue his reader therby a vomit, &s;ome of his owne Coleworts, not twi&s;e, but twi&s;e twenty times &s;odden; To which wee giue him leaue to looke an An&s;wer, from &s;ome as idle headded as him&s;elfe.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>THE SIXT ARGV|MENT TAKEN OVT OF DI|vers Treati&s;es An&s;wered.
<NOTE PLACE="marg">This Propo|&s;ition being a whol leaf in his booke. I forbeare any further an&s;er downe, there being in effect little difference in the matter from that which hee hath former|ly brought.</NOTE></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Ihon.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>IF the is A&s;sertious bee true, That that Church calling for which the Scripture giue noe expre&s;se warrant, is meerely v&s;urped, and vtterly vnlawfull, That as it is not lawfull to bring in any &s;trange doctrin, &s;o is it not lawful, to teach the true doctrine vnder the name of any other function then is in&s;tituted by God, &amp;c.</HI></ITEM>
<PB REF="47">
<ITEM><HI>But the afore&s;aid A&s;sertions are true.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Therfore it is vnlawful to haue communio~ with that Mini&s;tery.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>This Argument being a collection out of our writers doth not differ from the former; as him&s;elfe graunteth, and therfore needs noe further An&s;wer.</P>
<P>The Con&s;equent is fals, and hee proues it not by any of our owne writers, as hee ought to doe, but &s;til brings vs profes out of his owne mu&s;ty Aumbry.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption therfore borrowed out of our owne writers, will doe him noe plea&s;ure.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>THE SEAVENTH REA|SON TAKEN OVT OF THE twelue Arguments viz. the tenth. <HI>EXAMINED.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<HEAD>Fr. Iohn.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>IT is a &s;inne again&s;t Chri&s;t the &s;ole head of the Church, to haue &s;pirituall communion with tho&s;e Mini&s;ters, which in their Admini&s;tratio~ of divine things do either by word or deed &s;olemly profe&s;se and yeald a &s;pirituall homage to an v&s;urped &s;pirituall Authoritie in the Church.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>But &s;o do the Mini&s;ters of the Church A&s;semblies of England.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>Ergo, <HI>It is a &s;inne to haue communion with the &s;ame.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV4>
<DIV4 TYPE="subsection">
<PB REF="48">
<HEAD>An&s;were.</HEAD>
<P>The Propo&s;ition is fals; And hath noe ground from that Propo&s;ition in the 12. Arguments vnto which hee would match, and forth of which hee would draw it. The Propo&s;ition there is this. <HI>It is a &s;inne again&s;t Chri&s;t, the &s;ole head of the Church, for any one of his Mini&s;ters, e&s;pecially in the admini&s;tration of divine things, either by words or &s;ignes, &s;olemly to profe&s;&s;e, and acknowledge, a &s;pirituall homage to a v|&s;urped Sperituall authoritie in the Church.</HI> Can hee conclude his propo&s;ition from this doth it hence follow, That be|cau&s;e our Mini&s;ters in their Mini&s;tery if they conforme do in &s;ome mea&s;ure in infirmitie or ignorance commit &s;ome &s;uch &s;inne, That therfore it is a &s;inne to communi|cate with them, in other divine things, wherin they doe not commit the &s;ame &s;inne?</P>
<P>Hee tels vs, <HI>That the Propo&s;ition may not bee gaine-&s;aid,</HI> and why doth hee tell vs &s;o? becau&s;e the Author of the 12. Arguments &s;aith, <HI>his Propo&s;ition may not bee denied.</HI> As though there were ju&s;t the &s;ame rea&s;on for the one as is for the other; But why may not the Propo&s;ition; <HI>Becau&s;e all Spirituall power v&s;urped over the Churches of God is an An|tichri&s;tian Authoritie, &amp; to communicate with tho&s;e Mini&s;ters which Profe&s;&s;e Spirituall homage therunto, is to communicate which &s;uch as profe&s;se Spirituall homage to Antichri&s;t, which mu&s;t needs bee a &s;inne again&s;t Chri&s;t the head of the Church.</HI> A deepe and learned Rea&s;on. It can bee no &s;inne again&s;t Chri&s;t, to communicate with them, which in &s;ome a|ction profe&s;&s;e Spirituall homage to Antichri&s;t, except in their communion, they al&s;o profe&s;&s;e the &s;ame homa|ge, which like an ignorant di&s;putant, hee maketh noe
<PB REF="48">que&s;tion of. As though to joine with one, that doth e|vill, in that which is good, is alwaies to joine with him in the evill, as though to joine with a glutton in eating nece&s;&s;ary food, were to joine with him in his gluttony, or to joine with a bla&s;phemer, in the act of his bla&s;phe|ming in re&s;cuing an inocent out of the hands of Rob|bers, were to communicate with him in his bla&s;phemy; But herein hee propounds onely to play the Ape imita|ting the Author of the twelue Arguments, who &s;aith his Propo&s;ition may not bee gaine &s;aid, <HI>Becau&s;e all Spiri|tuall Power v&s;urped over the Churches of God, is an Antichri|&s;tian Authority, and to profe&s;se &s;pirituall homage thervnto, is to profe&s;&s;e &s;pirituall homage vnto Antichri&s;t, which mu&s;t needs bee a &s;inne.</HI> But what? is there no more Rea&s;on in this rea&s;on then in his? If this bee a good Argument to proue that Propo&s;ition for which it is brought, mu&s;t his Argument needs, bee as good to proue his propo&s;ition? what be|cau&s;e it is a &s;inne <HI>to profe&s;se Speciall homage vnto Antichri&s;t</HI> mu&s;t it needs al&s;o bee a &s;inne, <HI>to communicate al&s;o with them, who do profe&s;se &s;ome homage vnto Antichri&s;t,</HI> what? to communicate with them in other matters?</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is as fals as the Propo&s;ition, And hath noe ground for the <HI>twelue Arguments,</HI> for though it were graunted, <HI>That to v&s;e the controverted ceremonies in manner and forme pre&s;cribed were even in the &s;olemne wor&s;hip of Chri&s;t by &s;olemne &s;ignes to acknowledge a &s;pirituall homage to a &s;pirituall v&s;urped Authority of Arch Bi&s;hops and Bi&s;hops.</HI> Yet doth it not ther-from follow, That our Mini&s;ters in the admini&s;tration of divine things, doe the &s;ame; for none of our Mini&s;ters do <HI>alwaies</HI> in the admini&s;tration of divine things profe&s;&s;e any &s;uch homage, and &s;ome do
<PB REF="49">never profe&s;&s;e it. And tho&s;e who profe&s;&s;e it, when they doe profe&s;&s;e it, propound, and intend noe &s;uch matter.</P>
<P>Hee proues the A&s;&s;umption, Thus</P>
<P><HI>They preach the word and admini&s;ter the Sacraments by vir|tue of their calling receaved from the Arch-Bi&s;hops and Bi|&s;hops, &amp;c.</HI> The vanity wherof hath bene &s;ufficiently &s;he|wed all-ready hee therin begging one of his &s;tale rea|&s;ons, and not borrowing any thing, from the twelue Ar|guments. That which followeth, wherby hee would proue, <HI>That the Authority of L. Arch-Bi&s;hops, and Bi&s;hops is v&s;urped,</HI> which he makes the 2. parts of his A&s;&s;umption; is altogether idle, and to noe purpo&s;e, and donne onely of malice to the Author of the twelue Arguments for otherwi&s;e, had hee intended herein the convincing of the &s;aid Author, and of them which are of his minde, (which is the onely v&s;e of the later &s;ort of his rea&s;ons, &amp; which can &s;erve for noe other v&s;e) it had bene &s;ufficient to haue produced his A&s;&s;ertion without his profes; for that had bene enough to declare, The Authors con|ceit.</P>
<P>Hee concludes crowing as if hee were &s;ome Cock of the game, that had picked out the eyes and broken the necks of al that haue bene &s;et again&s;t him. <HI>And thus</HI> (&s;aith hee) <HI>the cau&s;e is yealded by them&s;elues.</HI> And is it not (thinke wee) finely yealded? is it not a feild &s;toutly wonne, Is it any mervaille, that hee makes &s;uch out cries again&s;t the wholl Chri&s;tian world, that will not follow &s;uch a lea|der.</P>
<P>But I leaue him to his vaine conceits of his owne cau&s;e, Tru&s;ting that any &s;ober and judicious Chri&s;tian, will bee able to di&s;cerne, therin his fond and ignorant
<PB REF="49">vanity. And wher as in the An&s;wer of his Rea&s;ons, I haue omitted to an&s;wer to many perticuler pa&s;&s;ages. All things con&s;idered I &s;hall not neede to aske him par|don, I &s;hould rather haue cau&s;e to expect thanks, if I had to deale with a rea&s;onable and good natured adver|&s;ary.</P>
</DIV4>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>REASONS OR ARGVMENTS, TENDING TO PROVE THAT IT IS A &s;inne to &s;eperate from the publique Mini|&s;tery of the Church A&s;&s;emblies of Englande.</HEAD>
<HEAD TYPE="sub"><HI>DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO M^r. IONHSONS OWNE Rea&s;ons.</HI></HEAD>
<HEAD TYPE="sub">AND VSVALLY IN THAT RE|gard made in the &s;ame moode and figure.</HEAD>
<DIV2 TYPE="part">
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The fir&s;t Argument.</HEAD>
<P>It is a &s;inne to &s;eperate from that Mini&s;tery which is
<PB REF="50">&s;et by Chri&s;t in his Church for the worke of his Mini&s;terie.</P>
<P>But &s;uch is the Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;&s;em|blies of England.</P>
<P>Therfore it is a &s;inne to &s;eperate from it.</P>
<P>The profes which he bringeth to confirme the maine Propo&s;ition of his fir&s;t Rea&s;on, will &s;erue to proue this.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>The A&s;&s;umption may bee proued thus.</ITEM>
<ITEM>The Mini&s;tery of true Pa&s;tors and Teachers is the Mini&s;tery which is &s;et by Chri&s;t in his Church.</ITEM>
<ITEM>The Mini&s;tery afore&s;aid is the Mini&s;tery of true Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it is a Mini&s;tery &s;et by Chri&s;t in his Church.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>The Propo&s;ition is his owne.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption I proue thus.</P>
<P>The Mini&s;tery which hath in it all things e&s;&s;en|tiall to the office &amp; calling of true Pa&s;tors &amp; Tea|chers is the Mini&s;tery of true Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</P>
<P>But &s;uch is our Mini&s;tery.</P>
<P>Therfore it is the Mini&s;tery of true Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</P>
<P>I think he is not &s;o &s;imple as to deny the Propo&s;ition.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is proued thus.</P>
<P>To haue &s;uch gifts as Chri&s;t a&s;cended to heauen to giue for the worke of his Mini&s;tery. To bee out|wardly called to that worke by &s;uch a Church as profe&s;&s;eth the fondamentall points of the Go&s;pell. To in&s;truct the people committed to their Charge, in the doctrine of the law and Go&s;pell: To admini|&s;ter vnto them the holy Sacraments of Chri&s;t, And
<PB REF="50">to bee their month in prayer vnto God; Are all things e&s;&s;entially appertaining to the office of true Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</P>
<P>Such is the Mini&s;tery of our A&s;&s;emblies.</P>
<P>Therfore it is the true Mini&s;tery of Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</P>
<P>If hee deny the Propo&s;ition, hee mu&s;t &s;hew, what o|ther matters do e&s;&s;entially appartaine vnto their calling which yet hee hath not donne.</P>
<P>For confirmation of the A&s;&s;umption it &s;hall bee &s;uffi|cient that wee can &s;et forth vnto him, &s;uch a Mini&s;tery in &s;undry of our Church A&s;&s;emblies, of which all thei&s;e points may bee truely verified, their conformitie to the State, and their &s;inne therin (if any bee) not with&s;tan|ding.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The &s;econd Argument.</HEAD>
<P>The Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies is not the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</P>
<P>Therfore it is a &s;inne to &s;eperate from the &s;ame.</P>
<P>The con&s;equent mu&s;t bee true vntill hee can bring forth any other exceptions again&s;t our Mini&s;tery then &s;uch as appertaine to the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo|&s;ta&s;ie.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is proued thus.</P>
<P>The Mini&s;tery of the Church A&s;&s;emblies of An|tichri&s;t is of Prie&s;ts and Deacons.</P>
<P>But the Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies is not the Mini&s;tery of Prie&s;ts and Deacons.</P>
<P>Therfore it is not the Mini&s;tery of Antichri&s;ts Apo&s;ta&s;ie.</P>
<PB REF="51">
<P> The Propo&s;ition is his owne.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption if I &s;hould follow his learning, I might proue thus, The Mini&s;tery of true Pa&s;tors, and Teachers is not the Mini&s;tery of Prie&s;ts and Deacons.</P>
<P>But &s;uch is the Mini&s;tery of our A&s;&s;emblies. <HI>Ergo,</HI> and for the profe of the A&s;&s;umption, I might &s;end him back againe to my fir&s;t Argument. But I wil leaue &s;uch a kind of di&s;puting to him&s;elf, as his owne peculier, and proue it otherwi&s;e thus.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That Mini&s;tery which in the maine and e&s;&s;entiall faculties, &amp; offices therof, is oppo&s;ite to the maine, and e&s;&s;ential faculties, functions &amp; offices of Prie&s;ts, and Deacons is not the Mini&s;tery of Prie&s;ts, and Deacons.</ITEM>
<ITEM>But &s;uch is our Mini&s;tery.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it is not the Mini&s;tery of Prie&s;ts and Deacons.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>The Propo&s;ition is vndeniable.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption may bee proued thus.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That Mini&s;tery which is oppo&s;ite to the Sacra|fice of the Ma&s;&s;e, is oppo&s;ite to the maine and e&s;&s;en|tiall faculties, functions and offices of Prie&s;ts and Deacons.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Such is our Mini&s;tery.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it is oppo&s;ite to the maine and e&s;&s;en|tiall faculties of Prie&s;ts and Deacons.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>I doe not &s;ee, which of theis Premi&s;es hee can with any colourable rea&s;on deny. I will therfore for beare to proceed further in this Argument: vntill I &s;ee what hee can &s;ay again&s;t it.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<PB REF="51">
<HEAD>The third Argument.</HEAD>
<P>That Mini&s;tery which profe&s;&s;ing Chri&s;t by main|taining his covenant with the &s;eales of it, doth di|rectly and profe&s;&s;edly warre again&s;t the Bea&s;t and again&s;t all that wor&s;hip his Image, and receave his marke in their forehead and hand, cannot without &s;in bee &s;eperated from.</P>
<P>Such is our Mini&s;tery.</P>
<P>Therfore it ca~not without &s;in be &s;eperated from.</P>
<P>The Propo&s;ition is true. For noe Mini&s;tery &s;o pro|fe&s;&s;ing Chri&s;t, but the true Mini&s;tery of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, doth directly and profe&s;&s;edly warre in manner, &amp; forme afore&s;aide.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption I proue thus.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That Mini&s;tery which &s;o profe&s;&s;ing oppo&s;eth it &s;elf profe&s;&s;edly to the Pope of Rome as that great Antichri&s;t, which directly and expre&s;ly renounceth all Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall homage vnto him, or any of his profe&s;&s;ed cleargie, That denieth and di&s;puteth a|gain&s;t (mo&s;t effectually) all the maine and founda|mentall points of Popery, which oppo&s;eth it &s;elfe to the vttermo&s;t of the &s;trength and Power therof, to all the profe&s;&s;ed frends of the Pope, and Church of Rome, That houldeth and maintaineth all the members therof to bee hereticks and Idolators, and in the &s;tate of condemnation, and &s;uch as no good Chri&s;tian ought to co~municate &s;piritually withall, That Mini&s;tery (I &s;ay) doth directly warre again&s;t the bea&s;t, and again&s;t al that wor&s;hip his Image, &amp;c.</ITEM>
<ITEM>But all this is donne in and by our Mini&s;tery.</ITEM>
<PB REF="52">
<ITEM>Therefore it doth directly, and profe&s;&s;edly warre again&s;t the Bea&s;t, &amp;c.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>I know not which of theis Propo&s;itions hee can with any face deny; but deny either when hee will, I &s;hall bee readie to proue them.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The fourth Argument.</HEAD>
<P>That Mini&s;tery which, deriveth the power and functions therof from Chri&s;t cannot without &s;inne bee &s;eperated from.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>The Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies deri|veth the Power and functions therof from Chri&s;t.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it cannot without &s;inne bee &s;eperated from.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>The profes of the maine propo&s;ition of this fourth Argument will &s;erue to proue this Propo&s;ition.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umptio~ is as &s;ufficiently proued by my third and fir&s;t Argument as his contrary, is by his third and fir&s;t. But I further proue it thus.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>If the Power and functions of our Mini&s;tery for the &s;ub&s;tance therof, bee the very &s;ame, for which Chri&s;t a&s;cended vp into Heaven to procure for the edification of his body the Church, then doth it for the &s;ub&s;tance therof, derive the Power and functions therof from Chri&s;t.</ITEM>
<ITEM>But the fir&s;t is true, therfore the later is true al&s;o.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>The Con&s;equent of the Propro&s;ition is vndeniable.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is as vndeniable, Except hee can &s;hew any &s;ub&s;tantiall difference betweene the one and the other.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<PB REF="52">
<HEAD>The fift Argument.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That Mini&s;tery which worketh vpon the Con|&s;ciences of men, by a true &s;pirituall calling cannot without &s;inne bee &s;eperated from.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Such is our Mini&s;tery.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it cannot without &s;inne bee &s;eperated from.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>The Propo&s;ition cannot bee gaine &s;aid.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is proued by my 2. Argument, but I further proue it in this manner.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That Mini&s;tery which worketh vpon the Con|&s;ciences of men onely by a &s;pirituall gift and grace giuen by Chri&s;t, and directed by the word of God, doth worke vpon the con&s;ciences of men by a true Spirituall calling.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Theis doth the Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;em|blies.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it worketh vpo~ the con&s;ciences of men by a true Spirituall calling.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>The truth of either of theis Propo&s;itions, I &s;hal ea&s;ily proue, if they bee deinde.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The &s;ixt Argument.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM>The Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies is noe &s;trang Mini&s;tery.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it is a &s;inne to &s;eperate from it.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>This Anticedent is better proued by my fir&s;t Argu|ment: then his contrary A&s;&s;umption is by his fir&s;t Argu|ment. I proue it not with&s;tanding thus.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That Mini&s;tery which for the &s;ub&s;tance therof, was practized by Chri&s;t, the Apo&s;tles many worthy
<PB REF="53">and famous Martyrs and witne&s;&s;es of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t in Church A&s;&s;emblies is no &s;trange Mini&s;tery.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Such is our Mini&s;tery for the &s;ub&s;tance therof.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it is no &s;trange Mini&s;tery.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>Surely hee will never deny the Propo&s;ition.</P>
<P>Nether can hee deny the A&s;&s;umption, except he can &s;hew a Sub&s;tantiall difference, between the Mini&s;teries afore&s;aide.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The &s;eaventh Argument.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That Mini&s;tery which is from Heauen cannot without &s;inne bee &s;eperated from.</ITEM>
<ITEM>The Mini&s;tery of our Church A&s;&s;emblies is from Heaven.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it ca~not without &s;inne be &s;eperated fro~.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>The Propo&s;ition is plaine.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption is proued by all the former Argu|ments, which in his logick Scholes, in his owne cau&s;e is profe good enough. But I ad a further profe.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>That Mini&s;tery which in all the parts and Power therof is principally excercized and directed, to bring men to Heaven is a Mini&s;tery from Heaven.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Such is our Mini&s;tery afore&s;aid.</ITEM>
<ITEM>Therfore it is from Heaven.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>The Propo&s;ition is firme. It being not po&s;&s;ible, that that Mini&s;tery which is from Earth or hell &s;hould bee principally directed and excercized in all the parts and Powers therof to bring men to Heaven.</P>
<P>The A&s;&s;umption may not bee denied, except hee can &s;hew in what other thing it is more principally excerci|zed, and to what other end, directed, which hee can ne|ver doe.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="answer">
<PB REF="53">
<HEAD>AN ANSWER TO CERTAINE DE|MANDES OFTEN PVBLISHED by M. Iohn&s;on, the deciding wherof (as hee &s;aith) will end the controver&s;ies be|tween him and vs.</HEAD>
<DIV2 TYPE="part">
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The fir&s;t Demande.</HEAD>
<P>WHether the Lord Ie&s;us Chri&s;t haue by his la&s;t will and Te&s;tament, given vnto and &s;et in his Church, &s;ufficient ordinarie officers, with their calling, worke and maintenance: for the admini&s;tration of his holy things, and for the &s;uffi|cient ordinarie in&s;truction, guidance and &s;ervice of his Church, to the end of the worlde.</P>
<P N="1">1 _I An&s;wer directly (vnder&s;tanding by <HI>Officers,</HI> &s;pirituall officers) that hee hath; And that it is a Sinne herein to breake his will and te|&s;tament, ether by depriving the Church of any of tho&s;e officers, or by bringing into it any other
<PB REF="54">kinde, with any other kinde of calling, or worke, then hee hath appointed in the &s;ame.</P>
<P N="2">2. That not with&s;tanding this, the Civill Magi&s;trate hath power, to &s;et over the Churches of Chri&s;t in his Dominions, Commi&s;&s;ioners and over&s;eers, which are not &s;pecially appointed by Chri&s;t in his Te&s;tament, ci|villy to guide &amp; gouerne the Churches, &amp; to maintaine tho&s;e priviledges, liberties, offices &amp; orders, that Chri&s;t hath endowed them with all, again&s;t all the enemies, both without and within the &s;ame.</P>
<P N="3">3. Concerning the maintenaunce of the Mini&s;ters: Chri&s;t hath &s;et downe no more in his Te&s;tament, then this in effect, <HI>That the labourer is worthie of his hire:</HI> And that for their Mini&s;tration of Spirituall things, the Churches that enjoy their labours, ought to Mini&s;ter to them, of their Temporals. But after what e&s;peciall man|ner, they &s;hall be maintained, he hath (for ought appea|reth yet to the contrary) ether left it to the di&s;cretion of the Churches, if they haue the free di&s;po&s;ition of their temporall goods in their owne hand: or of the Chri&s;tian Magi&s;trate, who in &s;uch ca&s;es may &s;ee what is fitter, then the Churches them&s;elues.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The &s;econd Demande.</HEAD>
<P>Whether the Offices of Pa&s;tors, Teachers, Elders, Deacons and Helpers, be tho&s;e offices appointed by Chri&s;t in his Te&s;tament before &s;aid? Or whether the pre&s;ent eccle&s;ia&s;ticall offices of Arch-Bi&s;hops, Lord-Bi&s;hops, Suffraganes, Deanes, Prebendaries, Can|nons, Pettie Cannons, Prie&s;ts, Deacons, Arch-Dea|cons,
<PB REF="54">Doctors of Divinitie, Chaplins or Hou&s;e-Prie&s;ts, Commi&s;&s;aries, Officials, Proctors, Appari|tors, Par&s;ons, Vicars, Curats, Vagrant or Mercenary, Preachers, Church-wardens, Sidemen, Clarkes, Sex|tons. and the re&s;t now had in the Cathedrall and pe|ri&s;hionall A&s;&s;emblies, bee tho&s;e offices oppointed by Chri&s;t in his Te&s;tament, as is afore&s;aid or no?</P>
<P N="1">1. I graunt, that the Offices in the fir&s;t place mention|ned, are tho&s;e very offices which Chri&s;t hath appointed that there is no Church of Chri&s;t, but hath v&s;e and need of them; And that &s;uch are &s;omeway defective, that want any one of them.</P>
<P N="2">2. That yet not with&s;tanding, they may bee true Churches, that want &s;ome of them; yea the chiefe&s;t of them, as thos A&s;&s;emblies of our owne profe&s;&s;ion in En|gland, haue for many yeares (as I take it) bin without, ether all or chiefe&s;t of them; And yet they judge them|&s;elues true Churches: yea, though they haue not &s;o much as the Sacraments admini&s;tred among&s;t them.</P>
<P N="3">3. Where the Civill Magi&s;trate doth his dutie as hee ought: and where the Churches haue the benifit of his help, for the &s;uppre&s;&s;ing of &s;inne, and the relieving of the poor, and tho&s;e that are in any di&s;tres (which the Apo&s;tolicall Churches wanted) there the want of &s;ome of theis offices, may bee the better borne with all: and the Church le&s;&s;e defective, that doth want them, e&s;peci|ally the two latter.</P>
<P N="4">4. I graunt that none of tho&s;e offices here mentioned in the latter part (excepting that of Deacons,) are in name tho&s;e offices which Chri&s;t hath appointed: &s;ome of them, nether in name, nor in deed: &s;ome in deed,
<PB REF="55">though not in name; Some haue the name of that, which indeed they are not; Some though they bee &s;et over the Churches: Yet are not indeed any proper offi|ces of the Church; Some offices here named nether in deed nor name, as they are &s;uch, are eccle&s;ia&s;tical offices, but onely &s;choole Titles and dignities giuen to men eminent in learning, for incouragement of others to &s;tudy good letters, e&s;pecially divinitie.</P>
<P N="5">5. All the offices appointed by Chri&s;t to bee in his Church&punc; to the end of the world, in effect and &s;ub&s;tance may be found conteined vnder &s;ome of theis, though &s;omwhat di&s;gui&s;ed with &s;trange names, borrowed from the Church of Rome: and the principall &amp; mo&s;t nece&s;|&s;ary, are vnder &s;ome of theis. For many of theis which you di&s;pitfully cal, mercenary Preachers, Prie&s;ts, Hou&s;e-Prie&s;ts: yea, Par&s;ons, Vicars, Curats, are in very deed and truth, in office &amp; practice (what&s;oever they are in name) The very Pa&s;tors and Teachers, that Chri&s;t hath ordai|ned, mini&s;tring in his Churches, according to their pla|ces and callings: And tho&s;e gifts which Chri&s;t had be|&s;towed vpon them al, the ordinary meanes of &s;alvation. As for theis varitie of names, mo&s;t of them ari&s;e, from that varitie of maintenance that is in our Churches, and not of their &s;pirituall offices; So that in this manner to di&s;pute again&s;t our Churches, becau&s;e the Mini&s;ters therof, haue &s;uch &amp; &s;uch names, is: as though one &s;hould di&s;pute again&s;t the Church of the Iewes in Chri&s;ts time and haue denied communion with it, asking; whether Prie&s;ts, Levites, and Prophets, were not tho&s;e officers which God had appointed to governe the Church of the Iewes with all? Or whether Scribes, Phari&s;ies, Sa|duces,
<PB REF="55">Captaines of the Temple, Rulers of the Synago|gues, Doctors of the Law, Centurions, Souldiers, the high-Prie&s;ts Servants, &amp;c. were tho&s;e Officers? Or as if one di&s;puting again&s;t your owne Churches, or tho&s;e which haue (though not &s;o fully, as you would haue them) interteined the &s;ame di&s;cipline with you, &s;hould: to warrant their &s;eperation from you, &amp; their condem|nation of you as fal&s;e Churches, move the very &s;ame que&s;tion in nature vnto you; Asking you whether Pa|&s;tors, Teachers, Elders, Deacons &amp; Helpers, be not tho&s;e Offices, which Chri&s;t hath appointed in his Te&s;tament: Or whether Schi&s;maticks, Refractaries, lay-Aldermen; Pari&s;h Bi&s;hops, Con&s;i&s;torians, Pari&s;h Popes, Proctors of &s;pitle hou&s;es, Dawbers, Thackers, Tailers, Tinkers, &amp;c. be tho&s;e Officers? for thus it hath plea&s;ed &s;ome, to put theis odious names vpon tho&s;e, which bearre &amp; exerci&s;e the offices of Pa&s;tors, Teachers, Elders, &amp;c.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The third Demande.</HEAD>
<P>Whether the callings and entrance into the eccle|&s;ia&s;ticall offices afore&s;aid, their admini&s;tration and maintenance, now had and retained in England, bee the manner of calling, admini&s;tration and mainte|nance, which Chri&s;t hath appointed, for the Offices of the Church, aboue named, or no?</P>
<P>Not to &s;tand (for the avoiding of multiplicity of vn|ne&s;&s;arie que&s;tions) vpon defence of the calling, entran|ce, admini&s;tration and maintenaunce of all; I aun&s;wer directly and plainly, That the Calling, entraun|ce, admini&s;tration and maintenance, of many
<PB REF="56">(at the lea&s;t) that are called into eccle&s;ia&s;ticall offices, is in very effect and &s;ub&s;tance the &s;ame, that Chri&s;t hath appointed. They are men in&s;tructed in the knowledge of good Letters, e&s;pecially in divinitie. They haue a gift in &s;ome good mea&s;ure, to devide the word of God, ac|cording to the nece&s;&s;ities of the people, over whom they are &s;et. They haue a de&s;ire, to do Chri&s;t and his Church &s;ervice in his Mini&s;trie, and a purpo&s;e to giue them&s;elues over vnto that worke. They haue in &s;ome good mea&s;ure, (for none hath them in perfection) all tho&s;e graces and gifts that Paul to Timothie, requires to bee in Bi&s;hops and Elders; They are &s;o judged and e&s;teemed to bee of other Mini&s;ters, and well grounded Chri&s;tians, and of tho&s;e people which &s;ubmit vnto their Mini&s;trie, who accepting of them and their Mini&s;trie as &s;ent of God, de&s;iring and yealding them&s;elues to liue vnder them, as is fitting for Chri&s;tians: And they re&s;ol|ving to guide and governe them, as becometh &s;pirituall leaders and guides; Such calling and entraunce as this, haue many of our Church-officers; more then this in &s;ub&s;tance and effect, is not appointed by Chri&s;t. Tho&s;e defects and errors which over and be&s;ides, many time; they yeald vnto in their calling, entraunce and admini|&s;tration, are not of that nature and qualitie, that they make anullitie thereof, or make it a fals, and Antichri|&s;tian calling, entrance or admini&s;tration. The mainte|nance they liue by, as it is no where in &s;peciall appoin|ted of Chri&s;t: &s;o is it no where in generall, or &s;peciall forbidden; In the yealding wher-of vnto the Mini&s;ters, they fulfill the Te&s;tament of Chri&s;t, in giving of their temporall things, for &s;pirituall, in giving hire to the
<PB REF="56">Labourers, &amp;c. and do not therin breake any parts els therof, hee having no where forbiden, any &s;uch manner of maintenance, but left it indifferent, to giue money or fruits, In fruits to giue the twentith, the twelfth, the tenth, the eighth of the increa&s;e, according ether to their e&s;tate, or the nece&s;&s;itie of the Mini&s;ters, wherein the Magi&s;trate hath authority to rule and define, who hath in his hand, the power of mens temporall e&s;tates; or the Church, if the Magi&s;trate leaue vnto them, the free v&s;e of their owne Temporalties; Nether is the tenth re|quired to be giuen by the Magi&s;trate, or yealded to bee given by the Church, to the maintenaince of the Mini|&s;ters, any more ceremoniall or Iudaicall, in regard of the number, then in regard of the matter; Nether did their any Mini&s;tery, lie &s;o much in the quantity of the thing given, as in the very gift and offering it &s;elfe; So that by the &s;ame rea&s;on, that you make it vnlawfull, for Mini|&s;ters to be maintained by tithes, you make it vnlawfull for them, to haue any kinde of maintenaunce from the Church, there having bin a Ceremonie, in the very mat|ter it &s;elf, as much as in the quantitie, or number. For not onely their giving the tithe of their increa&s;e, but al|&s;o the very giving of their increa&s;e it &s;elfe, out of that con&s;ideration, was ceremoniall.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The fourth Demande.</HEAD>
<P>Whether every true vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t, bee not a companie of people called and &s;eperated out from the worlde, and the fals wor&s;hip and waies ther|of, by the word of God: and joined together in the
<PB REF="57">fellow&s;hip of the Go&s;pell, by voluntarie profe&s;&s;ion of the faith, and obedience of Chri&s;t?</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, 1. That every true vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t is &s;uch a people.</P>
<P N="2">2. That yet, not with&s;tanding they bee &s;uch; they may in their infirmitie and ignorance, walke in &s;ome of the waies, and practice &s;ome parts of the fals wor&s;hip of the world, not with&s;tanding their &s;aid &s;eperation, conjun|ction and profe&s;&s;ion.</P>
<P N="3">3. They may in time become, the true vi&s;ible Chur|ches of Chri&s;t, which at the fir&s;t were not, in the &s;aid manner and forme, called, &s;eperated and joined toge|ther, but forced and con&s;trained again&s;t their will by the &s;word of the Magi&s;trate. 4. Many of tho&s;e Churches in our kingdome from which you &s;eperate, as they now &s;tand, are &s;uch a companie of people, &s;o called, &s;eperated and joined together: though in all three, there may bee &s;ome kinde of defects and wants.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The fift Demande.</HEAD>
<P>Whether the Sacraments, being the &s;eales of righ|teou&s;nes which is by faith, may be admini&s;tred vnto any other, but to the faithfull and their feed: or in any other Mini&s;trie, or ma~ner then is appointed by Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, the Apo&s;tle and high Prie&s;t of our profe&s;&s;ion? And whether they be no otherwi&s;e admini&s;tred, in our Cathedrall &amp; Pari&s;hionall Churches in England.</P>
<P N="1">1. I graunt, that the Sacraments ought to bee admini|&s;tred, onely to the faithfull in outward profe&s;&s;ion, and their &s;eed, and in no other Mini&s;trie, or manner, then is appointed by Chri&s;t.</P>
<P N="2"><PB REF="57"> 2. In many of our Churches (at the lea&s;t) they are ad|mini&s;tred in no other manner, from and by no other Mi|ni&s;try, then Chri&s;t hath appointed: nor to no other per|&s;ons. 3. Every error and defect, in &s;ome part of the mat|ter, and forme, and mini&s;trie, a ri&s;ing of ignorance, or in|firmity, maketh not the Churches fals Churches; except you hould, That no true perticuler Church can erre, which is a more gro&s;&s;e opinion, then that of the Papi&s;ts.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The &s;ixt Demande.</HEAD>
<P>Whether the booke of Common Praier, with the fea&s;ts, fa&s;ts, holy daies, &s;tinted Praiers &amp; liturgie pre|&s;cribed therin, &amp; v&s;ed in theis A&s;&s;emblies, be the true wor&s;hip of God, commaunded in his word: or the de|ui&s;e &amp; invention of man, for Gods wor&s;hip &amp; &s;ervice.</P>
<P N="1">1. Though it &s;hould bee graunted, that the booke of Common praier in all the parts and percels therof, is not the true wor&s;hip of God, but containeth in it &s;ome devi&s;es and inventions of man; yet, the true wor&s;hip of God (not with&s;tanding) is pre&s;cribed in it.</P>
<P N="2">2. So much of it as is v&s;ed in many of our Churches, is the true wor&s;hip of God, and in effect commanded in his word.</P>
<P N="3">3. Tho&s;e devi&s;es and inventions of men, with the fea&s;ts, fa&s;ts &amp; holy daies therin pre&s;cribed, though they &s;hould be graunted, to be &s;innes and corruptions in our Churches, &amp; &s;uch as ought not to be conformed vnto: &amp; &s;uch as we ought rather to &s;eperate fro~ our Churches then ether by &s;ub&s;cription, conformity, or any other meanes, to approue; yet are they not of that nature, that
<PB REF="58">the &s;imple v&s;e of any, or all of them, doth de&s;troy the very being of tho&s;e Churches, which v&s;e them: making them fals Churches, and &s;uch as wee may haue no &s;piri|tuall communion withall, no not in the be&s;t things.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="section">
<HEAD>The &s;eaventh Demande.</HEAD>
<P>Whether all people and Churches without excep|tion, be not bound in Religion onely, to receive and &s;ubmit vnto that Mini&s;try, wor&s;hip and order, which Chri&s;t as Lord and King, hath given and appointed to his Church? Or whether any may receiue &amp; joine vnto another devi&s;ed by man, for the &s;ervice of God? And con&s;equently, whether they that joine to the pre&s;ent eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Mini&s;tery, wor&s;hip and order of the Cathedrall, and Pari&s;hionall A&s;&s;emblies, can bee a&s;&s;ured by the word of God, that they joine to the former ordained by Chri&s;t, and not to the latter devi&s;ed by man, even the man of &s;inne, for the wor|&s;hip and &s;ervice of God?</P>
<P N="1">1. I graunt that wee are bound in Religion, to do that which is &s;pecified in the fir&s;t part of your que&s;tion.</P>
<P N="2">2. To joine with our ecclea&s;iia&s;ticall Mini&s;trie, wor|&s;hip and orders (at lea&s;t in tho&s;e A&s;&s;emblies, whether Cathedrall or other, when and where all things are not performed, according to the rigour of our lawes) is not to joine with a Mini&s;trie and wor&s;hip, devi&s;ed by that man of &s;inne: but (though not in all the &s;pecialties and formalities therof) with &s;uch a Mini&s;trie and wor&s;hip, as is required and in&s;tituted of God.</P>
<P N="3">3. They which joine to the pre&s;ent eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Mi|ni&s;trie,
<PB REF="58">wor&s;hip and order of the Cathedral or Pari&s;hio|nall A&s;&s;emblies in tho&s;e things which are performed therein, according to the true intent and meaning of our lawes, though &s;ome things bee done not warranta|ble by the word: yet they may bee a&s;&s;ured by the word of God, that they joine to the &s;ub&s;tance of that Mini|&s;trie, wor&s;hip and order, which Chri&s;t as Lord &amp; King, hath given and appointed to his Church; At lea&s;t they may bee as well a&s;&s;ured therof by Gods word, as any that joine with the pre&s;ent eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Mini&s;tery, wor&s;hip and order of the A&s;&s;emblies of tho&s;e of the Seperation, can bee a&s;&s;ured by the &s;ame word, that they joine to that forme, which is ordained by Chri&s;t.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
</DIV1>
</BODY>
</TEXT>
</EEBO>
</ETS>
