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<DATE>2014-05-05</DATE>
<RESPSTMT>
<NAME>Olivia Bottum</NAME>
<RESP>MURP</RESP>
</RESPSTMT>
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<TEXT LANG="eng">
<FRONT>
<DIV1 TYPE="title page">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<P>A CATHOLIKE CONFERENCE, <HI>BETWEENE</HI> A Prote&s;tant and a Papi&s;t, about the Church vi&s;ible and invi&s;ible, where|in, <HI>is declared the happines, and ble&s;&s;ed e&s;tate of</HI> the members of the invi&s;ible Church, in this life, in their death, in their re&s;urrection, and <HI>after the re&s;urrection for euer.</HI></P>
<P>And al&s;o a definition of the vi&s;ible Church, <HI>which conteineth the very e&s;&s;ence thereof, both in</HI> matter and forme, and is illu&s;trated further by proofes, both from the word, <HI>and workes of God.</HI></P>
<P>And in it, is al&s;o &s;hewed the infallible markes of a true vi&s;ible <HI>Church, whereby it may be knowne.</HI></P>
<P>And al&s;o therein are &s;hewed the deceiuable markes of the <HI>Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>which deceits are therein</HI> laid open, and confuted.</P>
<P><HI>LONDON</HI> Printed by <HI>I. D.</HI> for <HI>Nicholas Bourne,</HI> and are to be &s;old at his &s;hop, at the <HI>Royall Exchange.</HI> 1626.</P>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="dedication">
<PB REF="2">
<PB REF="2">
<HEAD>TO THE RIGHT HONORA|BLE WILLIAM, Earle of PENBROOKE, Lord <HI>Harbert,</HI> Lord <HI>Chamberlaine</HI> of the High and Mighty Prince King CHARLES the fir&s;t of Great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> his Honorable hou&s;hold: one of the <HI>Lords of his Maie&s;ties mo&s;t honorable privie Councell, Chancellor of the Vniver&s;ity of</HI> Oxford, Knight of the mo&s;t Noble order of the Gar|ter, &amp;c. <HI>George Ienney</HI> Gent: wi&s;heth all true noble honor in this life, and hap|pines, and glory, in the life to come.</HEAD>
<P>_MOST Noble Lord, I hum|bly intreat you, that you would not count it pre&s;umptuous bodlnes, in me a man &s;o meanly qualified, to dedicate a Booke to you, &s;o Noble a per&s;onage; the zeale of Gods glorious truth, and the honor I beare to this vi&s;ible Church of Great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> wherein, I had not onely my fir&s;t being in an e&s;tate of corrupted nature; but in Gods good time, haue by his ble&s;&s;ing on his owne ordinance, and my atten|dance thereunto, given me my better being in a &s;tate of
<PB REF="3"> grace, wherein I &s;tand: the zeale I &s;ay vnto Gods truth, and the honour I beare to this Church, that profe&s;&s;eth and preacheth this truth, hath provoked me to this la|bour. The &s;ubiect of this di&s;cour&s;e, is the Church vi&s;i|ble and invi&s;ible; and for as much, as I finde by reading &s;ome Bookes of controver&s;ies, betweene the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> and our Church, the great abu&s;es which the wri|ters offer to our holy Religion, and our Church, that preacheth and profe&s;&s;eth the &s;ame: and for as much as our Romi&s;h Engli&s;h Catholikes, will haue no communi|on with vs, in our publike a&s;&s;emblies: I thought it fitt in my Chri&s;tian charitie toward them, being grieved to &s;ee them &s;educed by their hereticall corrupted teachers. To write this Dialogue, as a private conference with them, or &s;o many of them, as this poore Dialogue by Gods providence may come vnto. Right Honorable, I be&s;eech you, not to be di&s;couraged, becau&s;e I am no pro|fe&s;&s;ed Schollar, to vouch&s;afe your Lord&s;hips patronage of this meane worke, for after I had fini&s;hed it, I would not adventure to procure the publi&s;hing of it, before I had obteyned the judgement of judicious Divines, touching the worth of it. There was three or foure about <HI>Lon|don,</HI> that peru&s;ed it, and &s;ub&s;cribed their approbations to the originall coppy, affirming, that it was like to do that good, for which it was intended: which did incourage me to obtaine licence to publi&s;h it, and dedicate it vnto your Lord&s;hip. I am vnknowne vnto your Honor, yet I haue received favours from you, for I was &s;ometime a &s;ervitor in Court, in the time of our Great Ma&s;ter, and Mi|&s;tris, the Heroicall Princes, King <HI>Iames,</HI> and Queene <HI>Ann,</HI> Father and Mother to our deare Soveraign, King <HI>Charles;</HI> who&s;e &s;ervant I was, and &s;erved as a Gentleman Sewer
<PB REF="3"> of her Maie&s;ties chamber in ordinary. At which time, your Honourable favours to mee, with the re&s;t of the Queenes &s;ervants aboue the &s;tayres e&s;pecially, to the pre|&s;ence waiters was &s;uch, that I cannot be altogether vn|mindefull, and therefore in this regard, I am e&s;pecially bound vnto your Lord&s;hip, and doe offer this poore worke to you in thankefullnes. But this is not the cheife cau&s;e, of my dedicating the&s;e my poore endevours vnto you, but becau&s;e I know you are a lover of Gods truth, which is your greate&s;t honor: your Chri&s;tian Noble car|riage in this church, doth evide~tly demon&s;trate the &s;ame. And therefore I pre&s;ume that this little mite of mine, will be rather furthered then hindered from the Church, that it may remaine in the Trea&s;ury of this our Church, for the edification of poore weake and ignorant &s;oules, that are already, or may be in po&s;&s;ibilitie, to be &s;educed for want of knowledge in Gods truth, and the true Church, which teach, preach, and profe&s;&s;e the &s;ame: Some there be that liue in the bo&s;ome of our Church, that are a&s;&s;u|redly per&s;waded, that our Church, is a pure part of the vi&s;ible Catholike Church, and &s;pou&s;e of Chri&s;t; this may be a meanes further to confirme them. And &s;ome there be that are weake, and infirme, wavering minded, and ready to fall from our Church, and from the &s;aving faith, which is faithfully preached and profe&s;&s;ed by her. This may be a meanes by Gods ble&s;&s;ing, to &s;trengthen them, and many there be, that are alienated from our Church, and that &s;aving faith taught by her, and haue knit them|&s;elues to the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> where they liue in a fal&s;e faith, grounded on a fal&s;e foundatio~, this may be a means, to giue them to vnder&s;tand that they are &s;chi&s;matically, and erroniou&s;ly departed from our Church, and the true
<PB REF="4"> faith, preached and profe&s;&s;ed by her; and a meanes to draw them to repentance, by turning to our Church and the truth therein faithfully taught, which is the &s;pirituall milke, for the nouri&s;hme~t of their &s;oules vnto everla&s;ting life, from the fal&s;e Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> where they are nuz|elled vp in er<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">or, &s;uper&s;titio~, and idolatry, to their eternal perdition, if they repent not. I haue &s;hewed them, that the Church, is to be con&s;idered two wayes, as it is vi&s;ible, and as it is invi&s;ible: and that as it is invi&s;ible, it is truely, properly, and indeede, the Church of Chri&s;t. I haue &s;hew|ed them, how this invi&s;ible Church, is his body, how it is invi&s;ible, how it is &s;pirituall, how it is my&s;ticall, and how it is the Catholike Church wee profe&s;&s;e to beleeue in the Creede; and I haue &s;hewed them, the happy and ble&s;&s;ed e&s;tate of this Church, and the &s;everall members thereof: Fir&s;t, in this life. Secondly, in their death. Third|ly, at the re&s;urrection. Fourthly, at the day of Iudgement. And la&s;tly, after Iudgement for ever, &s;o farre forth as I can gather by Gods word, &amp; the mini&s;tery of our church, and I haue &s;hewed them la&s;tly, how a true converted child of God, may be a&s;&s;ured, that he is a member of this hap|py and ble&s;&s;ed body and Church of Chri&s;t. The &s;econd part of this Booke, con&s;i&s;ts of the vi&s;ible Church, where I haue fir&s;t defined it, in which definition, is conteined the e&s;&s;ence of it, in the matter and forme. I haue &s;hewed the infallible markes of a vi&s;ible true Church, whereby a private man may know it: and I haue &s;hewed the marks that the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> holdeth to be infallible, but I haue proved them to be deceitfull, if they be not ioy|ned with the true doctrine of &s;alvation. I haue pro|ved the truth of our Church, and that theirs is a fal&s;e Church by their owne markes, that is to &s;ay, Succe&s;&s;ion,
<PB REF="4"> Antiquity, Vnity, Sanctity, Miracles, &amp;c. And therein is in&s;erted divers doctrines of the word and workes of God, worthy of note, which I thought good to &s;hew them, that they might the better conceiue what the Church is, and whereof it doth con&s;i&s;t, of which they are greatly igno|rant. And my good Lord, whereas there is not in the world, the lea&s;t Creature which God hath made, but will adde vnto mans perfection, either for knowledge, or for v&s;e &s;omewhat; &s;o this poore worke of mine, although it doth not adde vnto your Lord&s;hips wi&s;edome and know|ledge, yet it may ratifie and confirme it in many things, if your Honour will vouch&s;afe the reading of it: Herein is &s;hewed the true &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of the Church, in all ages of the world from <HI>Adam,</HI> till this very day, and that our Church of Great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> doth &s;ucceede the ancient Churches; both in the time of nature before the writing of the Law, and vnder the Law, as the Church of the Iewes; and the Church of CHRIST &s;ince the publi&s;h|ing of the Go&s;pell: and that it doth &s;ucceede them all, in that which is e&s;&s;entiall to the Church, both in the foundation, and al&s;o in the matter and forme: The&s;e things I &s;hew more at large, in this en&s;uing Dialogue fol|lowing, which I now pre&s;ent vnto your Lord&s;hip, de&s;i|ring your Honour, to accept the minde of the giver, and peru&s;e it at your lei&s;ure. And thus I commend you Right Honourable, to the protection, and grace of God in Chri&s;t.</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>Your Lord&s;hips in the Lord, <HI>GEORGE IENNEY.</HI></SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="to the reader">
<PB REF="5">
<PB REF="5">
<HEAD>TO All my fellow Subiectes, vnder King <HI>Charles,</HI> in his Monarchy of Great <HI>Brittaine, who are of the</HI> Romi&s;h Catholike <HI>Religion, vnto Whom I wi&s;h in the be&s;t de&s;ires of my &s;oule,</HI> the knowledge of Gods truth.</HEAD>
<P>_BEloved Countrimen and kinsmen, what ranke or calling &s;o ever you are of, whether you be men of honour, or wor&s;hip, whether you be of the Gen|try, or Yeomandry; Trade&s;-men, or Artificers; Husbandmen, or Plowmen; Poore, or Rich; Great, or Small; Young, or Old what&s;oever; that haue e&s;tranged your minds, and alienated your hearts, from the pre&s;ent Religion of your <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">wne Countrey. Which Religion is that truth, which mu&s;t bring you and all men to &s;alvation: the vtter refu&s;all whereof, will bring to eternall condemnation: to you I &s;ay, that haue ca&s;t off your owne &s;pirituall mother, the pure vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t Ie&s;us, here by Gods mercy and free goodnes in <HI>Great Brittaine</HI> placed and erected: and haue knit your &s;elues; liue in &s;ubiection, and hold communion with the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> a mo&s;t gro&s;&s;e corrupted Church; to you I &s;ay, in &s;pirituall commi&s;eration of your &s;pirituall mi&s;ery, doe I direct this Epi&s;tle of loue: and for your &s;akes, haue I out of
<PB REF="6"> my poore vnder&s;tanding, this poore Treati&s;e, Dialogue, or Ca|techi&s;me of the Church. I know that you are ignorant what the Church is, and whereof it doth con&s;i&s;t: and therefore as a helpe for your weakenes, I haue framed this Dialogue of the Church: I de&s;ire nothing at your hands, but that you would read it: for therein is &s;hewed by the word and workes of God, what the Church is, and whereof it doth con&s;i&s;t. I know your blind guides doe dehort and command you to avoid all matter of exhortation from vs, and all conference with vs. But for all them, be ruled by our Saviour Chri&s;t him&s;elfe, who&s;e &s;ervantes you profe&s;&s;e your &s;elves to be: what &s;ayth he by your Remi&s;h Te&s;tament in the Evangeli&s;t <HI>Ioh? Search the &s;criptures,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Iohn 8.39. 1. The&s;. 4.21. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> Iohn 4.5.</NOTE> <HI>for you thinke in them to haue life everla&s;ting.</HI> And what &s;ayth he by the mini&s;tery of Saint <HI>Paul,</HI> in your owne tran&s;lation to the <HI>The&s;&s;alon? Prooue all things, and hold that which is good,</HI> againe what &s;ayth he by the mi|ni&s;tery of Saint <HI>Iohn? My deare&s;t beleeue not every &s;pirit, but proue the &s;pirits if they be of God.</HI> My de&s;ire is, that you would ob&s;erue in reading this my poore Dialogue, tho&s;e rules which here our Saviour hath commanded you, for hee onely hath power in the Church, by his written word, to com|mand the con&s;ciences of men, and not your Pope and Prie&s;ts by their traditions. Doe as the Nobles of <HI>Berea</HI> did in obedience to our Saviour Chri&s;ts command, who &s;earched the Scrip|tures, whether tho&s;e things were &s;o which <HI>Paul</HI> taught them. The Scriptures, are as the Ballances of the Sanctuary, which will try whether the matter of my Dialogue, or Catechi&s;me is too light, or of rea&s;onable good waight: it is the touch&s;tone, which will try whether it be gold or copper: by this rule I would haue you to try the &s;pirit by which I wrote it, and by this touch&s;tone, I would haue you to try all things in it, and to keepe what is good; and what is for want of learning weakly performed, in &s;ilence and loue conceale, or tell me of it. I de&s;ire
<PB REF="6"> you not &s;o much to con&s;ider the man that wrote it, as the con|tents of it: not &s;o much the Authour of it, as the matter in it: and I make no doubt if the error of your Iudgements, be not &s;eated in your perver&s;e wils, but that you may profit much in your edification by it: But if Satan haue filled your hearts with mallice again&s;t our Church, and the truth here preached, and profe&s;&s;ed, and that your partiall re&s;pect vnto the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> be &s;uch, that you will walke in the wicked coun&s;ell of it, and &s;tand in the &s;infull wayes that it teacheth you, and that you are growne to that de&s;perate &s;tate, that you will &s;it in the wicked &s;eat of &s;corners: for the wicked &s;aith the <HI>P&s;al|mi&s;t,</HI> hateth to be reformed, then there is little hope to pre|vaile with you vnto any good; No, if Chri&s;t the e&s;&s;ence of all wi&s;edome were in the fle&s;h againe among&s;t you, to in&s;truct you, as he was among&s;t the Iewes, who were the vi&s;ible church, and yet condemned and crucified him: but my hope is, that God hath ordained many of you to &s;alvation and eternall life, and in his good time, will effectually call you by opening your hearts, as he did <HI>Lidia,</HI> to receiue the loue of the truth, to your eter|nall &s;alvation: the zeale of Gods glory in the good of your &s;oules, haue provoked me to this labour: and I hope you will not requite me with hate for my loue, nor evill for my good will; but that you will accept it in loue, as I wrote it in loue, for your edification, vnto happines and &s;alvation for ever. Your Pope and Prie&s;ts tell you, that they are your Pa&s;tors: but where is the good &s;pirituall pa&s;ture, by which they doe feede you to eternall life? It is no where to be found, but in the large field of the word of God, revealed in the Scriptures: and ma|ny parts of your Religion cannot be proved thence, nor from thence nece&s;&s;arily concluded: but is drawne out of their owne corrupt inventions, to the poy&s;oning of your &s;oules for ever, if you take not heede, and repent in time. For the prevention of which, I haue &s;hewed you in this my poore Dialogue, which is
<PB REF="7"> the pure&s;t part of the vi&s;ible Church, and the &s;afe&s;t in this part of the world, for you to ioyne with in Gods &s;ervice: two wicked props there are, by which the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> is vphold; the one is the bloody law o<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> the Inqui&s;ition of <HI>Spaine,</HI> by which the people are terrified, from que&s;tioning any point of error maintained by that Church: the other is their doctrine of an implict faith, which is in &s;undry parts of Religion, to be|leeue as the Church beleeveth; and by taking from them the Scriptures, that they &s;hould not &s;pie out by that pure light, the fal&s;e doctrine of that Church. Thus by a bloody law, and by ignorance, is that Church vpheld: and if that cruell law were repealed, and that common &s;tore-hou&s;e of Gods &s;pirituall ble&s;|&s;ings, the Scriptures opened, that all Gods people might re&s;ort to it, both in publike, and private to reade it: I am per&s;waded that quickly the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> would fall without any further &s;trife: but I doe not de&s;ire to detaine you long by my Epi&s;tle, from reading my en&s;uing Treati&s;e; and &s;o I re&s;t yours in all Chri&s;tian duty, if you be Chri&s;ts.</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>GEORGE IENNEY Gent:</SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
</FRONT>
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="dialogue">
<PB N="1" REF="7">
<HEAD>A DIALOGVE OR CONFERENCE Betweene an Engli&s;h <HI>Prote&s;tant</HI> and a Spani&s;h <HI>Papi&s;t,</HI> about the Church vi&s;ible and invi&s;ible; &s;hew|ing the ignorant <HI>Papist</HI> by the Word and Workes of GOD, <HI>what the Church is, and whereof it doth con&s;i&s;t, whereof he is too ignorant.</HI></HEAD>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>_GEORGE,</SPEAKER>
<P>God ble&s;&s;e and &s;aue you Sir, you are well over-taken.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>PHILIP,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You are well-come Sir, I thanke you.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I perceiue you are wal|king to <HI>London.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am a &s;tranger in this Coun|trey, but haue beene here in</HI> London <HI>&s;ince our Amba&s;&s;adours and Ledgers haue beene &s;ent to your King. And be|ing de&s;irous to take the ayre this morning in the fields, the finene&s;&s;e and fairene&s;&s;e of the weather made me to walke further then I thought to haue done, even till I am weary.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I perceiue you are a &s;tranger, and &s;eeing Religion, the
<PB N="2" REF="8"> feare of God, and good humanitie, doth teach a man curteou&s;ly to intreate &s;trangers: therefore if it plea&s;e you I will walke with you foote by foote, vntill I bring you to <HI>London,</HI> and &s;o to your lodging.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Indeed &s;trangers in &s;trange Countryes haue a de&s;ire to light into good company, and therefore I thanke God that he hath &s;ent me &s;o kinde and courteous a companion to walke withall: therefore come let vs walke on fayre and e<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;ily.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;uppo&s;e Sir, you are a <HI>Spanyard</HI> by Nation if I mi&s;take not.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am &s;o indeed, and therefore you are not deceived.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Your King is a great King, and po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ed of many do|minions and kingdomes.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And not onely &s;o, but our King is rich in trea&s;ure, which he hath from the Indies.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>But I pray you Sir, let me craue your name.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>My name is</HI> Philip.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>And my name is <HI>George.</HI> But I pray you Senior <HI>Phi|lip,</HI> let me aske you another que&s;tion; Are you a Scholler.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Indeed I am no Scholler, which is a great griefe to me.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>And truely Senior <HI>Philip,</HI> no more am I, which want I greatly bewaile in my &s;elfe, yet by the mercy of God I haue at|tained in &s;ome weake mea&s;ure to &s;peake the language of <HI>Canaan</HI> in my owne naturall tongue, which you by the like mercy of God may attaine vnto, if you will be &s;tudiou&s;ly diligent while&s;t you are here, and if already you be entered into that holy lan|guage, by diligence you may here haue it increa&s;ed.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P>The language of <HI>Canaan,</HI> what is that?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Nay then I perceiue you are very ignorant, if you know not what it is. I an&s;were, It is the Scriptures or the Word of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How &s;hall I &s;peake the language of</HI> Canaan, <HI>or the Word of God in the Spani&s;h tongue. You haue asked an vnan&s;werable que&s;tion.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>How can you indeed &s;peake it, you being prohibited the reading thereof, and being vnlearned, as you &s;ay: but the Scriptures (as &s;aith one in an&s;were to a Popi&s;h rime) among&s;t you <HI>Papi&s;tes</HI> lurketh in a tongue vnu&s;ed, whereby poore people are abu&s;ed. But properly the language of <HI>Canaan</HI> is to powre out
<PB N="3" REF="8"> the &s;oule before the Lord in holy invocations and prayer, and that according to his Word. Which &s;pirit of prayer who&s;oe|ver hath not, cannot well talke with God,<NOTE PLACE="marg">I&s;aiah. 19.1<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">redge<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"></NOTE> and if he cannot re|ligiou&s;ly talke with God,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 15.6.</NOTE> how &s;hould his &s;peech be &s;anctified civilly to &s;peake with men?<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;alme 141.<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">redge<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"></NOTE> And therefore the Prophet <HI>David</HI> &s;aith; <HI>Set a watch O Lord before my mouth, and keepe the doore of my lips.</HI> And againe, <HI>O Lord open thou my lips,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 51.17.</NOTE> <HI>and my mouth &s;hall &s;peake forth thy pray&s;e.</HI> To this, the Apo&s;tle <HI>Paul</HI> exhorteth the <HI>Colo&s;&s;ians,</HI> that <HI>their &s;peech &s;hould be gratious alwayes.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Colo&s;. 4.6. 1 Pet. 4.</NOTE> And in an|other place, <HI>Peter</HI> hath it; <HI>If any man &s;peake let him &s;peake as the Word of God.</HI> And thus you heare what the language of <HI>Ca|naan</HI> is, wherein you may perceiue that you cannot &s;peake gra|ciou&s;ly, when the word of grace is clo&s;ed vp from you: nei|ther can you &s;peake according to the word of God, it being &s;hut vp from you: it makes me grieue from the very heart to &s;ee you &s;o blinded by your teachers.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And it makes me pittie you, to &s;ee you &s;o deeply ingaged in the here&s;ie and &s;chi&s;me of</HI> England.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>No, no, pittie not me, for after the way which you and all of your Religion call here&s;ie and &s;chi&s;me, will I wor&s;hip &amp; &s;erue the liuing Lord, as S. <HI>Paul</HI> teacheth me.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You and I are but lay men, and no &s;chollers, it belongeth not to vs to meddle with the Scriptures, but to Divines and Schollers, who vnder&s;tand the originall tongues, in which the Scriptures were first written.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I grant that Bi&s;hops &s;hould be no young Schollers as you and I am, but doth this argue, that young Schollers may not looke into the Scriptures; no &s;ure, you can inferre no &s;uch conclu&s;ion; for the Scriptures are as a deepe River, in which the mighty Elephant may &s;wimme, and the little Lambes may drinke and quench their thir&s;t. The greate&s;t Clarkes are never able to &s;ound the depth of the Scriptures in all points, and yet there are &s;uch plaine and expre&s;&s;e principles of &s;aving truth threin contained, and that from thence may be ea&s;ily collected, as may be well conceived by the meane&s;t of Gods children, and therefore the Scriptures are not &s;o hard and darke or ob|&s;cure, as tho&s;e of your Religion would make them; there is
<PB N="4" REF="9"> milke for babes and al&s;o meate for &s;trong men.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am a Catholike, and of the true Church, which is the Church of Rome, which Church cannot erre, and therefore what that Church teacheth, that will I beleeue.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Indeed your Church doth hold, if that a man know &s;ome points of Religion, as the Doctrine of the God head, of the Trinitie, of Chri&s;t his incarnation, and of our Redempti|on, it is needle&s;&s;e to know the re&s;t by particular knowledge, but to giue his con&s;ent, and to beleeue as the Pa&s;tors beleeue. Now what is this but to maintaine Ignorance; for when men &s;hall be taught that for &s;undry points of Religion they may be|leeue as the Church beleeveth; that the &s;tudie of the Scrip|tures is not to be required of them; yea, that to their good they may be barred the reading of them, if &s;o be they know &s;ome poynts and principall things in the matters of faith; that com|mon beleevers are not bound expre&s;ly to beleeue all the Arti|cles of faith; that it &s;ufficeth they beleeue the Articles of faith, by an Implicit faith, by beleeving as the Church beleeues. Few or none will haue care to profit in knowledge, if they o|bey the&s;e doctrines, contrary to Gods Commandements, that <HI>we &s;hould grow in knowledge,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Colo&s;&s;. 3.16.</NOTE> and that <HI>his Word &s;hould dwell plen|tifully in vs.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Alas, alas, it pittieth me that you being an vnlearned man, &s;hould thus meddle with the Scriptures.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>And it grieueth me that you &s;hould be &s;o hoodwinked and blinded by your teachers; but they deale with you as an vnskilfull and fooli&s;h Falkner doth by the Kingly bird the Fal|con, who tyes to his lewer the wing of a Iackdaw, or a Magete|pie, or of a carion Crow, and when he whi&s;tleth her off, and being aloft in her pitch, throwes vp his lewer and lewers her downe, and taints her with this carion fle&s;h, and by this meanes maketh her &s;ometimes fall and apt to &s;ea&s;e vpon the like, and thus taints her; &s;o that when a more skilfull man flies her and whi&s;tles her off, expecting that from her pitch &s;hee might fall at the &s;pring or retriue of the Partridge in the field, or the Phe|&s;ant out of the thicket, or the fowle out of the brooke, he is de|ceived, for &s;hee leaues the view of the&s;e whole&s;ome fowles, and
<PB N="5" REF="9"> e&s;pies &s;ome of the carrion birds, &s;ea&s;ing vpon them by rea&s;on &s;hee was &s;o tainted. Even &s;o it fareth with you, when any of our Pa&s;tors, or other skilfull Chri&s;tians doe rea&s;on with you about the heavenly truth of the Word of God, which would nouri&s;h you vp vnto eternall life, then doe you &s;ea&s;e vpon the carion invention of humane traditions, (and leaue the whole|&s;ome food of the Word of God) as the&s;e, the Church cannot erre, and we mu&s;t beleeue as the Church beleeveth, by infoul|ded or implicit faith; and al&s;o that Images are lay mens books, and yet the Scripture &s;aith, that <HI>Images and Idoles are teachers of lyes.</HI> And the Prophet <HI>Habakuk</HI> &s;aith, that <HI>the Iu&s;t man liues by his owne faith:</HI> and <HI>Paul</HI> al&s;o &s;aith, <HI>I liue by faith in the Sonne of God.</HI> This &s;hewes that we mu&s;t liue and be &s;aved by our owne particular faith, and not by the Implicit and vnknowne faith of the Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Your rea&s;oning Sir, &s;hewes you are an hereticke, and an enemy to the Doctrine of the Church of Rome, and therefore I will not be|leeue you, but will maintaine Rome to be the true Church, and will hold her faith.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I perceiue you are ignorant, what the Church is, and al|&s;o what is the faith of the Church, &amp; therefore if it plea&s;e you, I will (as I haue learned) de&s;cribe the Church vnto you, and al&s;o the faith of the Church; but the faith of the Church will be &s;omewhat large, and therefore we will deferre that to our further meeting.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Further meetings man, doe you thinke that I dare haue priuate meetings with heretikes, &s;o &s;hall I incurre the cen&s;ures of the Church, and my Confe&s;&s;our when I come to confe&s;&s;ion, will enioyne me pen|nance grieuou&s;ly, more for this &s;inne of conference with heretickes perhaps, then for any other of my &s;innes.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>You &s;till &s;tile me heretike, but this is my comfort, if I be railed vpon for the name of Chri&s;t, the &s;pirit of God and of Chri&s;t, doth re&s;t vpon me. But Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> let not the cen&s;ures of your Church, and the penance enioyned by your Confe&s;&s;or di&s;may you, for you know that a &s;mall matter of your <HI>Indian</HI>-gold will command all: but if I could by my pri|vate per&s;wa&s;ions through Gods ble&s;&s;ing draw you to a holy li|king
<PB N="6" REF="10"> of our Religion, it would al&s;o &s;top all your feare that way. Oh Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> my heartie de&s;ire vnto God is, that you &amp; many poore &s;educed &s;oules that are in this Kingdome, yea, and many of my owne kindred in bloud, who are &s;o de|ceived in the choice of their Religion, would better and more &s;eriou&s;ly looke into the Lords vineyard planted in this King|dome by our Lord God and Saviour Ie&s;us Chri&s;t. Oh, I &s;ay, that he would make you his adopted &s;ervants and children, and &s;end you to his Labourers our reverend Pa&s;tors, who would not euilly intreate you, beate you, and &s;end you away emptie, as tho&s;e euill husbandmen mentioned in the Go&s;pell, but would giue you of the Grapes, the juyce and wine where|of would be as <HI>Aqua vitae,</HI> even Water of eternall life vnto you.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You almo&s;t per&s;wade me to become a Prote&s;tant.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It were your happine&s;&s;e, if you were not almo&s;t but alto|gether a <HI>Prote&s;tant,</HI> and were a&s;&s;uredly per&s;waded of the truth of our Religion, and the fal&s;ene&s;&s;e of your owne in many grounds of &s;aving truth.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>If I &s;hould conde&s;cend to haue often meetings to conferre, what &s;hould be the &s;ubiect of our &s;peech and conference.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The Articles of the Chri&s;tian or Catholike faith, which principles if a man well vnder&s;tand in &s;ome rea&s;onable matu|ritie of judgement, he &s;hall the better vnder&s;tand his reading of the Scriptures, and judge better of here&s;ies and Controver|&s;ies; for again&s;t the&s;e principles, which is the analogie of fait<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> no expo&s;ition of Scripture may be received. Its called by <HI>Paul, the forme of Doctrine.</HI> It is like mount <HI>Nebo,</HI> which God &s;et <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> vpon, to view the whole Land of <HI>Canaan.</HI> So he which is well grounded in the&s;e principles or analogie of faith, &s;hall in &s;ome comfortable manner vnder&s;tand the reading of all the holy Scriptures, and he &s;hall the better vnder&s;tand Divinitie, Lectures, and publike Sermons. I would to God our Pa&s;tors would be more diligent in Catechizing their &s;euerall flockes in the &s;aving grounds of Gods truth. How would our Church abound in the knowledge of God,<NOTE PLACE="marg">I&s;a. 53 11. Ioh. 17.3.</NOTE> and of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t; the &s;a|ving knowledge of whom is eternall life. What a flouri&s;hing
<PB N="7" REF="10"> Church &s;hould we haue, as I haue &s;eene and heard in one Pa|ri&s;h in the Suburbes of <HI>London</HI> for experience, I meane <HI>Shore|ditch;</HI> a place well knowne formerly to be full and abounding in wickedne&s;&s;e, but now better reformed: the youth by Cate|chizing &s;o wonderfully in&s;tructed in the principall grounds of the Lords truth, that it hath joyed my heart to heare and &s;ee it: the painefull labours of their Pa&s;tor through Gods ble&s;&s;ing hath &s;o pro&s;pered, that many of the youth can in a manner re|peate every ver&s;e or Sermon they heare verbatim, repeating both the divi&s;ions and &s;ubdivi&s;ions, and the proofes of Scrip|ture for every divi&s;ion. This I will &s;ay, thankes be to God that many of our Pa&s;tors by this kind of teaching haue done wor|thily, but the Pa&s;tor of <HI>Shoreditch</HI> &s;urmounteth them all in my judgment, I meane &s;o many as I haue beene acquainted with, in their Mini&s;tery; I am not acquainted with the man, nor he with me, but I hope I may glorifie God in his ju&s;t commen|dation.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But is this the onely way to the obtaining of the knowledge of &s;alvation?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I doe not &s;ay it is the onely way, for a man may come to the knowledge of the&s;e grounds by hearing Sermons, by con|ference, by reading the Scriptures, and by private &s;tudie: but I &s;ay, without the knowledge of the&s;e principall grounds there can be no &s;alvation: and I &s;ay that a man may be ignorant of &s;ome grounds, and yet be &s;aved, &s;o that his Ignorance be not affected in a dead &s;ecuritie, he v&s;ing meanes daily to increa&s;e his knowledge. And if it plea&s;ed God that the temporall power and the di&s;cipline of our Church, wou<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">d more vrge this man|ner of teaching, that the &s;everall families of your Religion, I meane the <HI>Papi&s;ts,</HI> might come to the Churches though the governours doe not, yet their children and &s;ervants to be in|&s;tructed in the&s;e heavenly grounds of truth; for I imagine the children and &s;eruants not &s;o &s;etled in the dregs of that Religi|on as the governors are: Oh, how would it be a meanes to ad|vance the Arke of Gods truth in their &s;everall families, and a meanes of the fall of the Idolatrous <HI>Dagon</HI> of <HI>Popery.</HI> Al&s;o I would it were vrged more vpon our prophane <HI>Prote&s;tants,</HI>
<PB N="8" REF="11"> who are indifferent what Religion they be of. How would it di&s;po&s;&s;e&s;&s;e Satan of his &s;everall habitations, by ignorance and other accu&s;tomable &s;innes of this wicked world.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, &s;ince we haue entered thus farre into di&s;cour&s;e, let mee heare your de&s;cription of the Church, that I may know how to yeeld due obedience vnto her.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Although I am a poore, weake, and vnworthy man to vnfold this my&s;tery vnto you, yet as well as I can, and haue learned, I will make knowne the Church vnto you, according to my promi&s;e.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Come on, let me know now what is the Church?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were; That the Church is two wayes to be vnder|&s;tood, as it is vi&s;ible, and al&s;o as it is invi&s;ible. As it is invi&s;ible it is properly and indeed the Church of Chri&s;t. But giue me leaue, Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> a little to digre&s;&s;e. You told me even now of the trea&s;ure your King and Countrey is inriched with by Gold from <HI>India.</HI> I thanke God our Countrey and King is &s;tored with all manner of nece&s;&s;ary temporall trea&s;ures, yea, in abundance, for our maintenance, for the Weale publike, and common &s;tate thereof, aboue many our neighbour Countries. Be&s;ides, God hath inriched our Land with trea&s;ure farre &s;ur|pa&s;&s;ing the gold of <HI>India,</HI> yea of <HI>Ophir;</HI> which you if you will play the good Merchant factor whil&s;t you are here, you may inrich your &s;elfe, I meane not with the tran&s;itory things of this life, for that is naturall and de&s;ired of all men: but I meane the &s;upernaturall trea&s;ure of Gods holy truth, the principall jewell whereof is Chri&s;t Ie&s;us, who&s;e righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e will &s;o inrich you, that you &s;hall be accepted of God as gloriou&s;ly per|fect and pure in his &s;ight. This can no man by nature de&s;ire or thir&s;t after, but onely he which is indued with &s;upernatu|rall grace from heaven. I tell you, Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> this trea&s;ure is everla&s;ting, and an induring &s;ub&s;tance, never vani&s;hing; for if I &s;hould prodigally be&s;tow on you all that &s;mall mite of this trea&s;ure, which God in mercy hath inriched me with, I &s;hould be never the poorer, but increa&s;e my talent greatly: but if you &s;hould in a prodigall mind giue me all your <HI>Indian</HI> Gold, you would make your &s;elfe but poore, and a begger.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="9" REF="11">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, come Seniour</HI> George, <HI>let me heare your further de&s;crip|tion of the invi&s;ible Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The Church, I &s;ay, which is properly, truely, and indeed the Spou&s;e and Church of Chri&s;t, is, as I haue &s;aid, invi&s;ible, and al&s;o my&s;ticall and &s;pirituall, it is al&s;o the ble&s;&s;ed, and hap|pie, and &s;anctified, and holy Church of Chri&s;t: the &s;everall members whereof haue to their great comfort evident markes &s;et on them by God, whereby it may be knowne, that they are vnited to this my&s;ticall bodie.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I thought you would venture to deale in high points that are too deepe for your vnder&s;tanding, you being ignorant and vnlearned, altogether without Arts, either of Logicke, or Rhetoricke, or other Sciences; you haue no languages, no not &s;o much as the common La|tine tongue, and therefore how can you edifie any in the&s;e deepe points wanting the&s;e helpes.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I grant that Arts, and languages, and humane learning, are good gifts of God, and good handmaids vnto Divinitie and Theologie: but you dignifie the handmaid, and di&s;grace the Mi&s;tre&s;&s;e. Nay, I know that there be many, not onely of your Religion, but of ours al&s;o, that doe &s;o much advance in their affection, &s;ecular and humane learning, being the &s;er|uant, that in a manner they thru&s;t the Mi&s;tre&s;&s;e Theologie or Divinitie out of the dores of their hearts. Nay, I tell you Seni|our <HI>Philip,</HI> that Arts, learning, and gifts of tongues, be but as the wi&s;edome of the Serpent, if they be advanced aboue, or not ioyned with the Mi&s;tre&s;&s;e Divinitie, the innocent Doue to &s;erue her as her &s;ervants and inferiours. For Arts and humane learning doth but proue by Arguments of things propo&s;ed or in que&s;tion, whereby rea&s;on may be inlightened or informed, which is of things which rea&s;on can reach vnto; but Divinitie Preached, doth beget faith, which faith doth apprehend and a&s;&s;ent vnto things &s;upernaturall, which rea&s;on cannot attaine vnto, and therefore faith re&s;teth it &s;elfe vpon the te&s;timony of the word and &s;pirit of God: as the Prophet <HI>I&s;aiah</HI> &s;aith, <HI>who hath beleeved our report;</HI> &s;o that faith relieth vpon the report of the Prophets and Apo&s;tles.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 2.25.26.27.</NOTE> We may &s;ee a very good exam|ple hereof, even in <HI>Thomas,</HI> who would not beleeue the report
<PB N="10" REF="12"> of the Di&s;ciples of Chri&s;ts re&s;urrection, except he might haue an argument to proue it to his &s;ence and rea&s;on, he would not beleeue; <HI>For,</HI> &s;aith he, <HI>vnle&s;&s;e I &s;hall &s;ee the print of the nailes in his hands, and &s;hall thru&s;t my finger into the prints, I will not be|leeue.</HI> And the Di&s;ciples being together eight dayes after, <HI>Thomas</HI> being with them, Chri&s;t came and &s;aid to <HI>Thomas, Bring thy finger hither, and &s;ee my hands, and bring in thy hand, and thru&s;t it into my &s;ide, and be not faithle&s;&s;e but faithfull.</HI> Ob|&s;erue here how our Saviour doth reproue him, becau&s;e he would not beleeue the Di&s;ciples report, but would haue that which they had &s;poken prooved by an argument to his &s;ence and rea&s;on:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ver&s;. 29.</NOTE> and therefore Ie&s;us &s;aith vnto him, <HI>Thomas, be|cau&s;e thou ha&s;t &s;eene me, thou ha&s;t beleeved, ble&s;&s;ed are tho&s;e which haue not &s;eene and yet haue beleeved.</HI> And the Author to the <HI>Hebrewes</HI> &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 11.1.</NOTE> <HI>That faith is the evidence of things vn&s;eene.</HI> And out of mine owne experience, the &s;imple preaching of the faith in the naked, plaine, and &s;imple &s;tile of the Scriptures, v&s;ing al&s;o the phra&s;es not refined by Art, but &s;uch &s;imply as the Word of God v&s;eth, doth more good in converting &s;inners vnto God, then tho&s;e who v&s;e the loftie &s;tile and phra&s;es coy|ned by Art.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But &s;eniour</HI> George, <HI>is there no v&s;e of Art and learning in the Mini&s;tery of the Word?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>God forbid I &s;hould &s;ay &s;o; for <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> was learned in all the wi&s;edome of the <HI>Egyptians;</HI> and <HI>Paul</HI> was learned, and &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Tim. 3.6.</NOTE> <HI>that a Bi&s;hop may not be a young Scholler:</HI> and he &s;aith to <HI>Titus,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Tit. 1.9.</NOTE> <HI>that an Elder mu&s;t be able to exhort with whole&s;ome doc|trine, and convince them that &s;ay again&s;t it.</HI> Which &s;heweth that learning is nece&s;&s;ary in a Mini&s;ter to maintaine Gods truth a|gain&s;t all wicked men and heretickes, who by their learning will oppo&s;e the truth: it is good in a learned auditorie; but he is a good Doctor which can teach to the capacitie of the &s;im|ple&s;t; and to the learned al&s;o when occa&s;ion &s;erueth.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But I pray you proceede in your de&s;cription of the Church, without further digre&s;&s;ion: How is it invi&s;ible, that which you &s;ay is properly the bodie and Church of Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Fir&s;t therefore I will &s;hew that it is the body of Chri&s;t,
<PB N="11" REF="12"> then next that it is his invi&s;ible body. The fir&s;t is prooved by <HI>Paul; So we being many are one body in Chri&s;t,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 12.5.</NOTE> <HI>and every one one anothers members: for by one &s;pirit are we all baptized into one bo|dy, whether we be Iewes or Gentiles, whether we bond or free,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 1.13.</NOTE> <HI>and haue beene all made to drinke into one &s;pirit.</HI> So that you &s;ee by this Text, that this vnion with Chri&s;t is by the Bapti&s;me of the &s;pirit, whether we be <HI>Iewes</HI> or <HI>Grecians,</HI> all makes one bodie:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ver&s;. 27.</NOTE> now ye are the body of Chri&s;t, and members for your part. And to adde one place more, the Apo&s;tle &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 10.17.</NOTE> <HI>We being many are one bread and one body: for we are all partakers of one bread.</HI> I thinke the&s;e places doe &s;ufficiently proue it to be the body of Chri&s;t: be&s;ides other places, as in the <HI>Collo&s;&s;ians.</HI> Be&s;ides,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Col. 1.24.</NOTE> as a husband and a wife are no more twaine but one fle&s;h, &s;o is Chri&s;t and his Church but one &s;pirituall body,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Chap. 2.19. Ephe. 1.23. 2 Cor. 11.2.</NOTE> for Chri&s;t is the head and husband thereof; <HI>for I haue prepared you for one husband, to pre&s;ent you as a pure virgin vnto Chri&s;t:</HI> and in the <HI>Re|velation</HI> it is &s;aid by <HI>Iohn, that he &s;aw the new Ieru&s;alem come downe from God out of heaven,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rev. 21.2.</NOTE> <HI>prepared as a bride trimmed for her husband.</HI> Now what a heavenly thing it is to be of this Church, and of this body. What a ble&s;&s;ed Communion haue they that are thus vnited to Chri&s;t? This is the right communion of Saints; and this is double, fir&s;t the fellow&s;hip and communi|on with the body, and one member with another; next the fellow&s;hip and communion with Chri&s;t the head. And this is explained by S. <HI>Iohn,</HI> in the&s;e words; <HI>That I &s;ay which we haue &s;eene and heard declare we vnto you, that yee al&s;o may haue fellow|&s;hip with vs, and that our fellow&s;hip al&s;o may be with the Father, and with his &s;onne Ie&s;us Chri&s;t.</HI> Wicked men doe delight and brag of their good fellow&s;hip in wickedne&s;&s;e and vanitie, but &s;uch as walke in &s;ome mea&s;ure in a good Con&s;cience in the wayes of God, what fellow&s;hip and company haue they? See what the <HI>Author</HI> to the <HI>Hebrewes</HI> &s;aith;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 2.2 3.4</NOTE> <HI>But yee are come vnto the mount Sion, and to the Cittie of the living God, the cele&s;tiall Ieru|&s;alem, and to the company of innumerable Angels, and to the a&s;&s;em|bly and Congregation of the fir&s;t borne, which are written in heaven, and to God the Iudge of all, and to the &s;pirits of iu&s;t and perfect men, and to Ie&s;us the Mediator of the new Te&s;tament, and to the bloud of
<PB N="12" REF="13"> &s;prinkling, that &s;peaketh better things then that of Abell.</HI> What fel|low&s;hip can be compared to this glorious communion of Saints? Oh happie man is he that inioyeth this fellow&s;hip!</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Indeed you &s;ay true, but I pray how is it invi&s;ible?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer, thus it is not in vs to di&s;cern the reprobate from the elect,<NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Tim. 2.19.</NOTE> therefore it is &s;aid in <HI>Timothy,</HI> the <HI>Lord knoweth who are his;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Col. 3.3.</NOTE> and in the <HI>Colo&s;&s;ians, yee are dead and your life is hid with Chri&s;t in God;</HI> as if he &s;hould haue &s;aid, you are dead in re&s;pect of the knowledge of the world; yea and of your fellow mem|bers in the world; for your life is hid with <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> in God, &s;ecret from the knowledge of all other; God knoweth the hearts; for it is &s;aid in the <HI>Acts thou Lord which knowe&s;t the hearts of all men.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Act. 1.14.15.</NOTE> And againe,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom 8.27.</NOTE> <HI>God which knoweth the hearts: and but he that &s;ea|cheth the hearts.</HI> All the <HI>I&s;raelites</HI> knew <HI>Nathaniell</HI> to be an <HI>I&s;|raelite,</HI> but not to be one without guile: this our Saviour one|ly knew, who &s;eeth the very hearts, and therefore gaue te&s;ti|mony of him certainly,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 1.47.</NOTE> which men could not doe; <HI>Behold in|deed an I&s;raelite in whom there is no guile.</HI> If a man profe&s;&s;e zeale to Religion,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 21.15.</NOTE> and loue to Chri&s;t, as <HI>Peter</HI> did, charitie is prone to beleeue he doth it indeed, as all charitable per&s;ons will con|iecture he doth &s;o, as long as they &s;ee no cau&s;e to the contra|ry: but that this zeale and loue is found and &s;incere, that it proceedeth from a pure heart,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Tim. 1.5.</NOTE> and a good Con&s;cience, and faith vnfained, God onely which knoweth the heart can pro|nounce; one Chri&s;tian may to his comfort judge of the ble&s;|&s;ed &s;pirituall e&s;tate of a Chri&s;tian brother, but this is a judge|ment conjecturall of charitie, and not of infallible certaintie. And thus I hope I haue in &s;ome mea&s;ure and rea&s;onable man|ner prooved vnto you the Invi&s;ibilitie of the Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But how is this proper body of Chri&s;t mi&s;ticall?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It is &s;o called, becau&s;e the my&s;tery of their coniunction is hidden from our &s;ence and rea&s;on.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Is there no place of Scripture to proue it my&s;ticall?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe&s;. 5.32.</NOTE> Yes; in the <HI>Ephe&s;ians, This is a great &s;ecret, but I &s;peake concerning Chri&s;t, and concerning the Church.</HI> From the 22. to the 32 ver&s;e, the Apo&s;tle wi&s;heth wiues to &s;ubmit them&s;elues to their husbands; the rea&s;on is becau&s;e he is the head as Chri&s;t
<PB N="13" REF="13"> is the head of the Church. And in the 30. ver&s;e, it is &s;aid, <HI>For we are members of his body, of his fle&s;h, and of his bones:</HI> and in the 32. ver&s;e, he &s;aith, <HI>this is a great &s;ecret,</HI> and therefore my|&s;ticall, but I &s;peake concerning Chri&s;t and concerning the Church, as if he &s;hould &s;ay, the coniunction between man and wife may be knowne, but the coniunction between Chri&s;t and his Church is &s;ecret, and therefore my&s;ticall, and therefore we mu&s;t needes conclude, that the Church is his my&s;ticall body.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But how is this bodie of Chri&s;t &s;pirituall?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, the beginning of the new birth is the gracious worke of the &s;pirit of God, and therfore every regenerate man is a &s;pirituall man, &s;uch as the beginning is, &s;uch mu&s;t he be which is borne a new: this new beginning, which is &s;pirituall, mu&s;t needs produce a &s;pirituall e&s;tate, and therefore tho&s;e per|&s;ons which by the mercy of God are brought out of the &s;tate of corrupted nature, into the &s;tate of grace by new birth, are tearmed &s;pirituall men. Furthermore, that the body of Chri&s;t as it is invi&s;ible and my&s;ticall (as which alreadie I haue proved) &s;o it is al&s;o &s;pirituall. Fir&s;t I proue it from the &s;pirituall birth thus; for <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith to the <HI>Galatians,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gal. 4.29.</NOTE> <HI>As then he that was borne after the fle&s;h per&s;ecuted him that was borne after the &s;pirit;</HI> even &s;o it is now: &s;o then he that is borne a &s;pirituall man, is &s;o cal|led, as in the <HI>Corinths,</HI> but he that <HI>is &s;pirituall di&s;cerueth all things.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 2.15. Gal 6.1. Rom. 8.5.</NOTE> And in the <HI>Galatians, yee which are &s;pirituall;</HI> and to the <HI>Romans, but they that are after the &s;pirit &s;auour the things of the &s;pirit.</HI> And in <HI>Peter, yee al&s;o as living &s;tones be made a &s;pirituall hou&s;e.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Pet. 2.5.</NOTE> Spiri|tuall is oppo&s;ed vnto carnall. How we &s;hould behaue our &s;elues as &s;pirituall men, we &s;hall heare anone.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But how is this body of Chri&s;t holy?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Thus farre of the proper Church of Chri&s;t, as it is his bo|dy, as it is invi&s;ible, my&s;ticall, and as it is his &s;pirituall bodie. Now to an&s;were to your Que&s;tion, it is holy two wayes: fir&s;t, by Iu&s;tification, and &s;econdly by Sanctification.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is Iu&s;tification?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that it is certaine, that all tho&s;e which are by Gods free goodne&s;&s;e and mercy my&s;tically vnited vnto Chri&s;t,
<PB N="14" REF="14"> and be his invi&s;ible and &s;pirituall body, mu&s;t needs be perfect, pure, and holy in Gods &s;ight, for in that body there mu&s;t be no putrified and corrupted members, and therefore I an&s;were againe to your Que&s;tion, that Iu&s;tification is an action of God whereby he pardoneth and ab&s;olveth a &s;inner, and accepteth of him as pure, righteous, and holy in his &s;ight.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But how are they made pure, holy, and righteous in his &s;ight.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>By Gods mercifull divine imputation of the perfect holi|ne&s;&s;e and righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e of Chri&s;t, vnto all the&s;e his &s;pirituall members.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What be the Scriptures you proue it by?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Cor. 5.21.</NOTE>Fir&s;t in <HI>Paul</HI> to the <HI>Corinths,</HI> he &s;aith, <HI>For he hath made him to be &s;inne for vs which knew no &s;inne, that we &s;hould be made the righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e of God in him:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 5.19.</NOTE> and to the <HI>Romans, for as by one mans di&s;obedience many were made &s;inners, &s;o by the obedience of that one &s;hall many be made righteous:</HI> and in the <HI>Canticles</HI> Chri&s;t &s;aith to his Spou&s;e and Church,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Cant. 4.7. Reve. 12.1.</NOTE> <HI>Thou art faire my loue, and there is no &s;pot in thee.</HI> And in <HI>Revelat. there appeared a great wonder in heaven, a woman clothed with the Sunne, and the Moone was vnder her feete, and vpon her head a crowne of twelue &s;tones.</HI> But where was this wonder in heaven, in the glorious and joyfull e&s;tate of the Church of grace, vnder the Mini&s;tery of the Go&s;pell, which in many places is called the kingdome of heaven, as in <HI>Math.</HI> 11. is, and 21.1. and 15.1. but what was this wonder; a woman clothed with the Sunne, this woman is generally the whole Church militant here vpon the earth: &s;pecially and particularly every true beleever,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Io&s;ea. 2.19.</NOTE> becau&s;e all &s;uch are married to Chri&s;t. Now in that this woman is &s;aid to be clothed with the Sunne, thereby is &s;ignified Gods mercifull imputation of Chri&s;ts his righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e, &s;o clothing her like a wedding garment, that God by meanes thereof &s;eeth no &s;in in her. For being &s;piritually clothed with this garment of Chri&s;ts righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e, &s;hee doth appeare glorious, holy, and righteous in Gods &s;ight. And by the Moone vnder her feete is meant all mutable profits, plea&s;ures, and promotions of this world, yea, and of her owne poore and imperfect righteou&s;|ne&s;&s;e
<PB N="15" REF="14"> and &s;anctification in this world, which &s;hee may well be &s;aid al&s;o in &s;ome &s;ort to treade vnder her feete, becau&s;e &s;he ac|counteth them not as garments wherewith &s;hee mu&s;t appeare ab&s;olutely ju&s;t before God, &amp; ju&s;tified in his &s;ight, but in that re&s;pect rather with S. <HI>Paul, doth count them as dung;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Phil. 3.8. I&s;aiah. 64.6.</NOTE> and with the Prophet <HI>I&s;aiah, as a men&s;truous cloth.</HI> So that what&s;oever is wanting vnto this Church, or to any member of it, either of &s;pirituall wi&s;edome, and knowledge, or of holine&s;&s;e and righ|teou&s;ne&s;&s;e, or for matter of merit and &s;atisfaction, to an&s;were Gods ju&s;tice, and to free it from the guilt of &s;inne and Gods wrath due thereunto, it is all abundantly &s;upplied in Chri&s;t; which is all plainly &s;hewed in one ver&s;e in <HI>Paul</HI> to the <HI>Corin|thians.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Is all this to be prooved in one ver&s;e, I pray you let me heare it?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The fir&s;t to the <HI>Corinths</HI> 1.30.<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 1.30.</NOTE> But <HI>yee are of him in Chri&s;t Ie&s;us, who of God is made vnto vs wi&s;edome and righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e and &s;anctification and redemption:</HI> all the trea&s;ures of the Go&s;pell are in Chri&s;t &s;tored vp for vs: in him is all perfection of wi&s;edome and knowledge of God, both of his e&s;&s;ence and &s;ub&s;i&s;tance; or per&s;ons, the vnion of both natures, with the communion of the properties of both natures that worke for our redemp|tion, together with all knowledge both of God and of the workes of God, which we are bound to know, which is all of it by Gods gracious gift freely given vnto this his Church: and he is made vnto vs righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e, becau&s;e what&s;oever the Lord did or doth require, touching Religion toward God, or charitie toward men, this is all likewi&s;e trea&s;ured vp al&s;o in him, and performed by him, and given by like gift of God to this his Church: and he is made vnto vs &s;anctification, becau&s;e what&s;oever inherent holine&s;&s;e and righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e and puritie of nature in the will and affections, and in the whole man, was by the Law required of vs, it is mo&s;t perfect in him, and is be&s;towed al&s;o on this invi&s;ible Church: and he is made re|demption vnto vs: redemption, I &s;ay, from all power of &s;inne: redemption from all guiltine&s;&s;e, whereby we are bound by the Law to vndergoe the puni&s;hment of &s;inne, and redemption
<PB N="16" REF="15"> from the puni&s;hment it &s;elfe; all which is trea&s;ured vp in Chri&s;t, and the benefit of it by God mercifully imputed vnto this Church. Thus I hope I haue in &s;ome rea&s;onable manner proved the holine&s;&s;e of this Church by ju&s;tification.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now let me heare how this &s;pirituall bodie and Church of Chri&s;t is by &s;anctification made holy?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that as no man can come to Chri&s;t, <HI>except the Father draw him:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 6.44.</NOTE> &s;o none that are drawne to Chri&s;t, but are my&s;tically and &s;piritually knit vnto him; now it plea&s;eth the Father to &s;end the &s;pirit to make this ble&s;&s;ed marriage between Chri&s;t &amp; his Spou&s;e the Church. Which Church being thus vnited vnto Chri&s;t, it is made al&s;o partaker of inherent holi|ne&s;&s;e from Chri&s;t her head and husband derived vnto her, and is in part al&s;o inherently &s;anctified by his &s;pirit; And &s;o by meanes of this &s;anctification, the Church militant is in part in|herently holy in this world; how&s;oever here indeed the&s;e &s;pi|rituall members of Chri&s;t receiue but the fir&s;t fruits of the &s;pi|rit of holine&s;&s;e,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 8.23.</NOTE> the full vintage they &s;hall haue when they tri|umph in glory:<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 The&s;. 4.1.</NOTE> therefore the Apo&s;tle <HI>Paul willeth vs to increa&s;e more and more:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Pet 3.18.</NOTE> and <HI>Peter</HI> exhorts <HI>to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Ie&s;us Chri&s;t.</HI> And the Author to the <HI>Hebrewes</HI> &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 6.1.</NOTE> <HI>let vs goe forward to perfection;</HI> and al|though this &s;pirituall body and Church of Chri&s;t militant be not perfect in degrees of holine&s;&s;e, yet it plea&s;eth the holy Gho&s;t by the Mini&s;tery of <HI>Peter,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod. 14.6. 1 Pet. 2 9. Rev. 11.9. And 12.19.</NOTE> to call them a <HI>cho&s;en generati|on, a royall Prie&s;thood, an holy Nation:</HI> and in the <HI>Revelation, the holy Cittie:</HI> this &s;anctification and holine&s;&s;e of this militant Church, hath two parts, the fir&s;t is mortification, or killing our naturall corruption, or originall &s;inne; the &s;econd is vivi|fication, whereby this Church is renewed in the Image of God in righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e and true holine&s;&s;e. Mortification is prooved by <HI>Paul,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gala. 5.24.</NOTE> in the&s;e words; <HI>They which are Chri&s;ts haue crucified the fle&s;h, with the affections and lu&s;tes thereof.</HI> Read for this <HI>Rom. How &s;hall we that are dead to &s;inne,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 6.23.4.</NOTE> <HI>liue yet therein. Know yee not that all we which haue beene baptized into Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, haue beene baptized into his death. We are then buryed with him by Bapti&s;me into his death, that like as Chri&s;t was rai&s;ed vp from the dead to the
<PB N="17" REF="15"> glory of his Father, &s;o &s;hould we al&s;o walke in newne&s;&s;e of life.</HI> The meanes that worke mortification is the death and buriall of Chri&s;t;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 6.6.</NOTE> as in <HI>Rom. Our old man is crucified with him that the bo|dy of &s;inne might be de&s;troyed.</HI></P>
<P>Vivification is the &s;econd part of this inherent holine&s;&s;e of the invi&s;ible militant Church of Chri&s;t, whereby they are in part renued in holine&s;&s;e and righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e, by which the Image of God is againe repayred in them:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Eph. 4.23.24.</NOTE> for which I proue by <HI>Paul</HI> to the <HI>Ephe&s;ians,</HI> in the&s;e words; <HI>And be renued in the &s;pirit of your mind: and put on the new man which after God is created vnto righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e and true holine&s;&s;e.</HI> And the &s;ame Apo&s;tle &s;aith to the <HI>Galatians; but I liue, yet not I any more,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gal. 2.20.</NOTE> <HI>but Chri&s;t liveth in me: and in that that I now liue in the fle&s;h, I liue by the faith in the Sonne of God, who hath loved me, and given him&s;elfe for me.</HI> And againe, he &s;aith to the <HI>Ephe&s;ians;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 2.1.</NOTE> <HI>And you hath he quickned which were dead in tre&s;pa&s;&s;es and &s;innes.</HI> So that you may by the&s;e places perceiue, that the matter of the Churches life of grace in holine&s;&s;e is Chri&s;t, who dwelleth in the heart by faith. To this end <HI>Paul</HI> to the <HI>Corinthians</HI> &s;aith;<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 15.45.</NOTE> <HI>The fir&s;t man Adam was made a living &s;oule, and the la&s;t Adam was made a quickning &s;pi|rit.</HI></P>
<P>The efficient cau&s;e of mortification and vivification, and of our whole &s;anctification, is the &s;pirit of God, who by his vn|re&s;i&s;table power convayes him&s;elfe into the regenerate and be|leeving mans heart, &amp; doth in them apply the power of Chri&s;t his death and re&s;urrection; and by this createth holine&s;&s;e, as in the <HI>Rom. Now yee are not in the fle&s;h, but in the &s;pirit,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 8.9.11.</NOTE> <HI>becau&s;e the &s;pirit of God dwelleth in you; but if any man haue not the &s;pirit of Chri&s;t, the &s;ame is not his.</HI> Ver&s;. 11. <HI>But if the &s;pirit of him that rai&s;ed Chri&s;t from the dead dwell in you, he &s;hall al&s;o quicken your mortall bodies by his &s;pirit that dwelleth in you.</HI> And in <HI>Iohn;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 6.63. Math. 3.11. Ioh. 3.5.</NOTE> <HI>It is the &s;pirit that quickeneth.</HI> The &s;pirit is re&s;embled to fire and wa|ter, both which haue clean&s;ing natures.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Is there no other meanes whereby the holine&s;&s;e of this &s;pirituall and militant body and Church of Chri&s;t is effected.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Yes; there are two other meanes whereby this Church is made holy: the fir&s;t is faith, the &s;econd, is the Word of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="18" REF="16">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How is faith a meanes to make this Church holy?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that it is a cleare ca&s;e in Divinitie, both in the Old and al&s;o in the New Te&s;tament, that Chri&s;t Ie&s;us is the &s;eede of the Woman that &s;hould breake the Serpents head: Which was promi&s;ed to our fir&s;t parents <HI>Adam</HI> and <HI>Eue;</HI> and it is al&s;o cleare, that he is of the &s;eed of <HI>Abraham</HI> and <HI>David,</HI> vnto whom this promi&s;e was renued: and it is manife&s;tly cleare al&s;o, that this Chri&s;t Ie&s;us is the &s;overaigne pla&s;ter and medi|cine for the cure of all the &s;ores, botches, boyles, and plagues of our &s;innes; and al&s;o it is cleare that the receipt of this &s;ove|raigne medicine is our cure, and none doe receiue this for the cure of them, but the members of this invi&s;ible and &s;pirituall body, or Church of Chri&s;t. Now I an&s;were againe to your que&s;tion, that faith doth it by applying this &s;overaigne medi|cine to the wounds and &s;ores of our &s;innes. I would haue you to con&s;ider what is the nature of faith. In faith there is three things di&s;tinctly to be con&s;idered, as I take it: the fir&s;t is ap|prehen&s;ion, whereby a man in his vnder&s;tanding doth know Chri&s;t to be a &s;overaigne medicine for &s;inne. The next is a&s;|&s;ent, whereby a man doth acknowledge him to be a true me|dicine, able perfectly to cure his &s;inne. The third is applicati|on, whereby a man doth lay and apply this &s;overaigne medi|cine to the &s;ores of his &s;innes. And thus doth faith ju&s;tifie be|fore God, and maketh holy in this world evangelically and in part. There be three &s;peciall Theologicall vertues, without the which God doth not &s;aue any; the&s;e are faith, hope, and loue; faith apprehendeth and applyeth the promi&s;es of grace in Chri&s;t; hope expecteth and patiently waiteth for the ac|compli&s;hment of them; loue is &s;o inflamed with them, that it being as the hand of faith, it worketh by way of thankfulne&s;&s;e all duties of Religion, both of pietie towards God and ju&s;tice and true charitie towards man. Now all the&s;e three vertues are given of God. That faith is his gift, is prooved by the&s;e places and many more. Fir&s;t, to the <HI>Philippians; For vnto you it is given for Chri&s;t,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Phil. 2.29.</NOTE> <HI>that not onely you &s;hould beleeue in him, but al&s;o &s;uffer for his &s;ake.</HI> And in the <HI>Hebrewes; Looking vnto Ie&s;us the Author and fini&s;her of your faith.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 12.2.</NOTE> And that faith doth purifie and make
<PB N="19" REF="16"> holy, the&s;e places make plaine; <HI>By faith he purified their hearts.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Act. 15.9.</NOTE> And againe, <HI>that they may receiue forgiuene&s;&s;e of &s;innes,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">And 26.8.</NOTE> <HI>and inhe|ritance among them which are &s;anctified by faith in me.</HI> And thus I haue prooved the holine&s;&s;e of the Church by the meanes of faith. Now that the Word of God is a meanes al&s;o of the Churches holine&s;&s;e, I proue it thus. Fir&s;t, there is no &s;aving knowledge of God, or of Chri&s;t, or of the &s;pirit, and the worke of the Father through the Sonne by the &s;pirit, but it is the Word that revealeth it vnto vs, and that mo&s;t purely if wee haue the &s;pirit truely to di&s;cerne it and conceiue it, and there|fore the Word doth make holy, by declaring the forme and manner of holine&s;&s;e, which God worketh and requireth to be in all his children. I &s;ay it is the outward meanes by which God doth call vs and frame vs vnto holine&s;&s;e. It is the Lords pruning hooke, whereby he trimmeth and pruneth the trees of mens hearts, to make them bring forth fruits of holine&s;&s;e; which if it effect not, it is his Axe to hew them downe for the fire. <HI>David</HI> &s;aith, <HI>the Word of God is prooved mo&s;t pure,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al 119.40. Ioh. 17.17. 1 Tim. 4.5.</NOTE> and there|fore them whom it winneth vnto God, it maketh holy and pure. <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith, <HI>All creatures are &s;anctified by the Word,</HI> there|fore his children whom he hath newly created in his owne Image are &s;anctified and made holy by it.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod. 19.10.</NOTE> <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> was comman|ded to &s;anctifie the people, when the Lord was to come downe vpon mount <HI>Sinai</HI> in their fight; even &s;o mu&s;t the Mini&s;ters of God, &s;anctifie and make holy by the Word, tho&s;e that mu&s;t appeare before God in the heavenly mount <HI>Sinai.</HI> I might al|ledge many rea&s;ons to prooue that the Word is the outward meanes of the holine&s;&s;e of the Church, which for brevitie &s;ake I omit. And thus I haue proved the holine&s;&s;e of this invi&s;ible Church both by Iu&s;tification and al&s;o by &s;anctification.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What meaneth the word</HI> Catholike, <HI>and which is the Catho|like Church?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Your que&s;tion is good, and as well as I can I will &s;atisfie your demand therein: by the word <HI>Catholike,</HI> as I take it, is meant a generalitie, both of the Articles of faith, and al&s;o of the members of the Church. For this word <HI>Catholike</HI> hath relation to both. There is but one faith which is generall, and every
<PB N="20" REF="17"> Article particularly &s;evered, is as a part of that whole frame; and &s;o al&s;o the Church is but one, and every particular mem|ber is as a part of the whole. Now, this word <HI>Catholike</HI> doth note out the large extent and vniver&s;alitie of the Church, and al&s;o of faith. It is called <HI>Catholike,</HI> for three cau&s;es; for, fir&s;t it is generall in re&s;pect of time, becau&s;e the Church and the faith thereof, haue beene in all times and ages of the world: &s;econd|ly, it is generall in re&s;pect of the per&s;ons of men: for it &s;tands of &s;ome of all &s;orts and degrees of men, high and low, rich and poore, learned and vnlearned: thirdly, it is vniver&s;all in re&s;pect of place, becau&s;e it hath beene gathered from all parts of the earth. All the Articles of faith are of things vn&s;eene; as it is in the <HI>Hebrewes;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 11.1.</NOTE> <HI>Now faith is the ground of things which are hoped for, and the evidence of things which are not &s;eene.</HI> And the Church which we profe&s;&s;e to beleeue in the <HI>Creede</HI> is invi&s;ible, as I haue proved. And it is called <HI>Catholike,</HI> to di&s;tingui&s;h it from particular Churches which are &s;eene with the eye, and not beleeved; as looke to the <HI>Corinthians,</HI> where it is &s;aid; <HI>The Churches of A&s;ia &s;alute you;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 16.19. Col. 4.15. Act. 11.22. Act. 13.1.</NOTE> <HI>Aquila and Pri&s;cilla, with the Church that is in their hou&s;e &s;alute you greatly in the Lord.</HI> And againe, <HI>Salute Nimphas, and the Church which is in his hou&s;e,</HI> and the Church of <HI>Ieru&s;alem,</HI> and the Church of <HI>Antioch,</HI> and al&s;o the &s;eaven Churches of <HI>A&s;ia,</HI> mentioned in the <HI>Revelations.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But can you proue the Catholike invi&s;ible Church by the Scrip|tures?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Yes, that I can, both by the Old and New Te&s;taments. Fir&s;t in <HI>Abrahams</HI> time, the Church was not included in his Familie; for <HI>Melchi&s;edech</HI> was the Prie&s;t of the mo&s;t high God, who lived in <HI>Abrahams</HI> time. And there were other ca|tholike profe&s;&s;ors,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 14.28.</NOTE> who&s;e Prie&s;t <HI>Melchi&s;edech</HI> was. Againe, in the time of the <HI>I&s;raelites</HI> bondage in <HI>Egypt, Mo&s;es</HI> flying into <HI>Midian,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod. 2.21.</NOTE> married the Prie&s;t of <HI>Midians</HI> daughter, which is probable he would not haue done if the Prie&s;t had not beene a catholike profe&s;&s;or: I take it to be certaine that he was a catho|like profe&s;&s;or; For when <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> told him all that the Lord had done vnto <HI>Pharaoh,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod 18.8.</NOTE> and to the <HI>Egyptians</HI> for <HI>I&s;raels</HI> &s;ake, and how the Lord had delivered them, therefore <HI>Iethro</HI> &s;aid, <HI>Ble&s;&s;ed
<PB N="21" REF="17"> be the Lord who hath delivered you out of the hands of the Egyp|tians:</HI> and he &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ver&s;. 10.</NOTE> <NOTE PLACE="marg">Ver&s;. 11.</NOTE> <HI>now I know that the Lord is greater then all the gods, for as they delt proudly with them, &s;o are they recompen|ced:</HI> then <HI>Iethro Mo&s;es</HI> father in law,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ver&s;. 12.</NOTE> tooke burnt offerings and &s;acrifices to offer vnto God, both his thankfull acknowledge|ment in ble&s;&s;ing the Lord, and his confe&s;&s;ion of the greatne&s;&s;e of the Lord aboue all other gods: and his offering &s;acrifice to God, doth &s;hew him to be a true catholike. The catholike Church now in the time of the new Te&s;tament is e&s;pecially generall and vniver&s;all.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rev. 7.9.</NOTE> To which purpo&s;e <HI>Iohn</HI> &s;aith in the <HI>Revelation; I beheld and loe a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds, people, and tongues, &s;tood before the throne, and before the Lambe, clothed with long white robes, and palmes in their hands.</HI> And our Saviour &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 26.13.</NOTE> <HI>The Go&s;pell &s;hall be preached throughout the world.</HI> And where it is preach<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">d, it begetteth faithfull children vnto God. And &s;o much for the catholikene&s;&s;e of the Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now let me heare what you can &s;ay for the happine&s;&s;e of this invi&s;ible Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The happine&s;&s;e of this Church which is Chri&s;ts invi&s;ible body, is vn&s;peakeable, and I am vnworthy of my &s;elfe to vn|fold it vnto you, but &s;o farre forth as I haue learned by the Word of God, and the Mini&s;tery of our Church, I will by Gods grace vnfold it vn<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">o you, as I haue promi&s;ed.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But wherein con&s;i&s;tes the happine&s;&s;e of this Church?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The ground and efficient cau&s;e of the happine&s;&s;e of this invi&s;ible Church, is Gods free election; and the fir&s;t entrance into this happine&s;&s;e is his free reconciliation by meanes of the mediation of Chri&s;t.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 8.</NOTE></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is the happine&s;&s;e which followes this reconciliation by the mediation of Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Their happine&s;&s;e is to be con&s;idered in three parts or re|&s;pects; fir&s;t, in their life in this world; &s;econdly, in their death; thirdly, after death.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Let me heare their happine&s;&s;e in this life.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 5.27.17. Gal. 6.15. Ioh. 3.5. Gal 4.16.</NOTE></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Fir&s;t vpon reconciliation they are made new creatures, and are conceived of the &s;pirit, in the wombe of the Church,
<PB N="22" REF="18"> and are borne not of bloud,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">oh. 6.13. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">al. 4.6.7.</NOTE> nor of the will of the fle&s;h, nor of the will of man, but of God, who in Chri&s;t is their father: &s;o that the image of God their Father is renued in them every day more and more. <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 4.2.3. <HI>Col.</HI> 3.10.13. Secondly, the members of this Church for the merits of Chri&s;t his actiue and pa&s;&s;iue obedience in his &s;ufferings and death, haue all their &s;innes originall and actuall, with the guilt and puni&s;hment be|longing to them, freely pardoned and forgiven them. <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.1. 2. <HI>Rom.</HI> 4.8.25. 1 <HI>Pet.</HI> 2.24. And all the righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e of Chri&s;t as freely imputed vnto them, and &s;o God is reconci|led vnto them, and approueth them as holy and righteous in his &s;ight and account. <HI>Rom.</HI> 4.5.19. 2 <HI>Cor.</HI> 5.19. <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.33.34. Thirdly, they are freed from the bondage of Satan, <HI>Act.</HI> 26.18. <HI>Ephe.</HI> 2.2. and are made brethren of Chri&s;t and fellow heires of his heavenly kingdome, <HI>Ioh.</HI> 20.17. and &s;pirituall Kings and Prie&s;tes, <HI>Reue.</HI> 1.6. 1 <HI>Pet.</HI> 2.5. to offer vp &s;pirituall &s;acri|fices vnto God by Ie&s;us Chri&s;t. Fourthly, God &s;pareth them as a man &s;pareth his owne &s;onne that &s;erveth him. <HI>Mal.</HI> 3.17. This &s;paring them, is fir&s;t in not taking notice of every fault, but bearing with them and their infirmities. No father that loveth his childe, will turne him out of his doores when he is &s;icke. Againe, &s;econdly, he doth not make their corrections and cha&s;ti&s;ements as great as their de&s;erts. Thirdly, God doth not afflict them as a &s;evere judge, but moderately cha&s;ti&s;e them as a loving Father, when he &s;eeth that they will not by any o|ther meanes be reclaimed. Fourthly, God graciou&s;ly accepteth their endeuours, notwith&s;tanding the imperfection of their workes and obedience, and &s;o preferring the true willingne&s;&s;e of their mindes, before the worthine&s;&s;e of their workes. Fift|ly, he turneth the cur&s;es of the Law, which they de&s;erue, to fa|therly cha&s;ti&s;ements, cro&s;&s;es, and corrections, yea all things and all calamities of this life, death it &s;elfe, yea their very &s;innes vnto their good.</P>
<P>Fiftly, he giues them the holy Spirit, which fir&s;t &s;anctifieth them by degrees throughout, &s;o that they doe more and more die to &s;inne and liue to righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e. Secondly, a&s;&s;ures them of their adoption, &amp; that they are by grace the children of God.
<PB N="23" REF="18"> Thirdly, encourageth them to come with boldne&s;&s;e and con|fidence into the pre&s;ence of Gods throne. Fourthly, moueth them without feare to &s;ay vnto him, <HI>Abba Father.</HI> Fiftly, poureth into their hearts the gift of true invocation and pray|er. Sixtly, the &s;pirit per&s;wadeth them that both they and their prayers are accepted and heard of God, for the mediation of Chri&s;t. Seaventhly, the &s;pirit fils them, fir&s;t with peace of con|&s;cience: &s;econdly, with joy in the holy Gho&s;t: in compari&s;on whereof, all earthly joyes &s;eeme vile and vaine vnto them. Sixtly, the members of Chri&s;ts &s;pirituall body, haue the reco|very of their &s;overaigntie over the creatures, which was lo&s;t by <HI>Adams</HI> fall, and they haue a free libertie of the v&s;e of all things which God hath not re&s;trained, &s;o that they may v&s;e them with a good con&s;cience; for to all things both in heaven and earth, they haue a &s;ure title in this life, and they &s;hall haue the full and peaceable po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion of them in the life to come. It is cleare from hence, that all wicked reprobates are but v&s;urpers, and no better then theeues &amp; robbers of all that they po&s;&s;e&s;&s;e, and haue nothing that they may lay lawfull claime to, nor no place of their owne but hell. Seaventhly, they haue a&s;&s;urance of Gods provident care and fatherly protection over them both day and night. Which care and protection con&s;i&s;ts in three things. Fir&s;t, in providing for their &s;oules and bodies, concerning this life and that which is to come, &s;o that they &s;hall be &s;ure ever either to haue enough or patience to be con|tent with that they haue. Secondly, his holy Angels as Mini|&s;ters he giveth charge to attend vpon them alwayes for their good: yea in danger to pitch their tents about them for their &s;afetie where ever they be: yea Gods care and protection &s;hall defend them as a cloud by day, and as a pillar of fire by night: and his providence &s;hall hedge them from the power of the Deuill. Thirdly, in that the eyes of the Lord are vpon them, and his eares continually open to heare their cry &amp; complaint, and in his good time to deliver them out of all their troubles.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>It &s;eemeth by this which you haue &s;aid, that the happine&s;&s;e of this invi&s;ible Church is great, even in this life. But how are the &s;everall members thereof happie in their death?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="24" REF="19">
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">Eccle. 7.3.</NOTE>The holy Gho&s;t &s;aith in <HI>Eccle&s;ia&s;tes, The day of death is bet|ter then the day that one is borne.</HI> And <HI>David</HI> vpon this ground, &s;aith;<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">al. 23.4.</NOTE> <HI>Though I &s;hould walke through the valley of the &s;haddow of death, I will feare none evill.</HI> The&s;e &s;pirituall members doe hold <HI>Chri&s;t even in life and death to be their advantage;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">hil 1.2.</NOTE> and count it the be&s;t <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">o be loo&s;ed and to be with Chri&s;t; <HI>They are ble&s;&s;ed that die in the Lord,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ev. 14 13.</NOTE> <HI>for they re&s;t from their labours,</HI> both of &s;inne and of mi&s;ery, and they doe pray vnto God that he would let them depart in peace, and why, becau&s;e by the eye of faith they haue &s;eene Chri&s;t Ie&s;us to be their &s;alvation: and they know that Chri&s;t hath overcome death,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">uk. 2.23.30.</NOTE> and pulled out his &s;ting, which is &s;inne: they know that Chri&s;t hath by the pow|er of his death overcome him that had the power of death,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Cor. 15.55.56.57.</NOTE> which is the Deuill, that he might deliver all them which for feare of death were all their time &s;ubiect to bondage.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 14.15.</NOTE> Vnto the&s;e regenerate children of God, death is &s;o well-come, that when God &s;ends him as a me&s;&s;enger to fetch their &s;oules out of this life, they in a manner meete him halfe way to heaven; for their conver&s;ation and affection is in heaven alreadie,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Phil. 3.10. Col. 3.2.</NOTE> &s;ent thither before them&s;elues, and death is no &s;trange thing to them, for they exerci&s;e them&s;elues to die daily: both from &s;in, and al&s;o with patience vnder the Cro&s;&s;e: no, the terrors of death doe not affright them, for they know that whil&s;t they lived they were dead,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Col. 3.3.</NOTE> and that their life was hid with Chri&s;t in God: they are de&s;irous to goe home to their fathers hou&s;e out of this mortall pilgrimage,<NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Cor. 5.6. Ioh. 14.2. Heb. 12 22. &amp;c.</NOTE> <HI>to the Cittie of the living God, the heavenly Ieru&s;alem, to an innumerable company of Angels, to the generall a&s;&s;embly, &amp;c.</HI> as I haue declared before. Touching the body of the Church, whil&s;t they are &s;icke God will comfort them in their bed of &s;orrow,<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 41.3.</NOTE> for God maketh all their bed in their &s;ickne&s;&s;e; and he giveth them faith and patience to beare their &s;ickne&s;&s;e: and for the mo&s;t part when they are beginning to enter into the conflict with death, which is the way of all fle&s;h; their behaviour is gracious to the comfort of their Chri|&s;tian friends about them, vttering gracious and ble&s;&s;ed exhor|tations to their children, &s;ervants, and friends, to liue faithful|ly in the &s;ervice of the true God all their life: yet oft times the
<PB N="25" REF="19"> violence of their di&s;ea&s;es may be &s;uch that it hindereth the grace of their minde, that they cannot vtter the comfort to o|thers as they would. The &s;oules of this Spou&s;e of Chri&s;t feare not death, neither temporall nor eternall, but are bold to re|moue and to goe out of the body, and to <HI>dwell with the Lord:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Cor. 3.8.</NOTE> and they doe with <HI>David, pant in &s;oule after thee O God, their &s;oule thir&s;teth for God, even for the living God:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 42.2.</NOTE> <HI>When &s;hall we come and appeare before the pre&s;ence of God.</HI> Th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">y de&s;ire with <HI>Paul,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Phil. 1.23.</NOTE> <HI>to be loo&s;ed and to be with Chri&s;t:</HI> they doe pray, <HI>how long Lord,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rev. 6.10. And 22.10.</NOTE> <HI>which art holy and true, come Lord Ie&s;us com<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> quickly;</HI> and when their departure is come that they mu&s;t die, they willingly yeeld vp the gho&s;t, &s;aying with <HI>David, into thy hands, O Lord,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 32.5.</NOTE> <HI>I com|mend my &s;oule, for thou ha&s;t redeemed me, O Lord thou God of truth.</HI> And with <HI>Steven, Lord Ie&s;us receiue my &s;pirit.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Act. 7.59</NOTE> And they no &s;oo|ner yeeld vnto nature, and giue vp the gho&s;t, but the holy Angels, who attend vpon them from their birth to their death,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 18. Act. 12.15. Luk. 16.21.</NOTE> conveigh their &s;oules to the kingdome of heaven, which is called <HI>Abrahams</HI> bo&s;ome. Now after their departing this life, the body is or ought to be by their Chri&s;tian brethren and friends, reverently interred in the earth; for the body though now dead, yet it remaines a member of the my&s;ticall body of Chri&s;t; for the &s;pirit of God having knit Chri&s;t and his mem|bers together, death cannot &s;ever them,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 The&s;. 4.14. Act. 7.6. And 8.2. Dan. 12.2. Ioh. 5.28.29. Luk. 14.14. 1 The&s;. Rev. 14.15.</NOTE> and it &s;till remaines the Temple of the holy Gho&s;t: and their buriall in the graue is but a lying to &s;leepe as in the bed of Chri&s;t, in an a&s;&s;ured hope to be awaked in the re&s;urrection of the lu&s;t, and the la&s;t day to be partakers with the &s;oule of life and glory everla&s;ting. And thus farre of their happine&s;&s;e in their death.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is the happine&s;&s;e of this invi&s;ible Church of Christ after death?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>As &s;oone as the adopted childe of God hath yeelded the Gho&s;t, and &s;urrendred his &s;oule into the hands of Chri&s;t, the Angels take the &s;oule and carry it to the joyes of heaven;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Luk. 16.22.</NOTE> for <HI>they are all mini&s;tring &s;pirits,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 1.14. And 12.24.</NOTE> <HI>&s;ent forth to mini&s;ter for their &s;akes which &s;hall be heires of &s;alvation:</HI> and to heaven they carry them vpon their di&s;&s;olution, and in &s;oule they po&s;&s;e&s;&s;e that place which Chri&s;t at his a&s;cen&s;ion into heaven prepared for them;
<PB N="24" REF="20">
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<PB N="25" REF="20">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="26" REF="21"> for he &s;aith;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 14.2.</NOTE> <HI>I goe to prepare a place for you,</HI> ver&s;. 3. <HI>and that where I am there may you be al&s;o,</HI> and there they are pre&s;ented before God, and Chri&s;t, and all the ble&s;&s;ed company of heaven, and there they are crowned with the crowne of righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e and glory,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 12.22.23.24. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> Tim. 4.8. Rev. 2.10. Exod. 33.2. Rev. 22.4. P&s;al. 17.17.</NOTE> <HI>which the Lord the righteous Iudge will giue them.</HI> In this life they could &s;ee but Gods backe parts; for (&s;aid God to <HI>Mo&s;es) thou can&s;t not &s;ee my face and liue;</HI> but now they are come to &s;ee his face. And <HI>David</HI> &s;aith, <HI>I will behold thy face in righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e, and when I awake I &s;hall be &s;atisfied with thine I|mage.</HI> The ble&s;&s;edne&s;&s;e and happine&s;&s;e of their &s;oules is vn|&s;peakeable.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is the happine&s;&s;e of the&s;e invi&s;ible and &s;pirituall members of Chri&s;t at the Re&s;urrection and la&s;t day of Iudgement?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The manner of the la&s;t day of Iudgement &s;hall be thus; Vpon the &s;ignes of the comming of Chri&s;t, the elect being then aliue,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Luk. 21.2<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">.</NOTE> &s;hall lift vp their heads with reioycing: and at that day they &s;hall receiue the crowne which the righteous Iudge &s;hall giue them,<NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Tim. 4.8.</NOTE> which they loved and longed for to receiue at his appearing.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What be the &s;ignes of the la&s;t day of Iudgement?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Immediately before the comming of Chri&s;t, the powers of heaven &s;hall be &s;haken,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ma. 24.29.30</NOTE> the Sunne and Moone &s;hall be dark|ned, and the Starres &s;hall fall from heaven, and then &s;hall the wicked mourne,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Luk. 21.26.</NOTE> and their hearts &s;hall fayle them for feare.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What will come of all things here in this inferiour world at the day of Iudgement?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The elementary heavens &s;hall be &s;et on fire, and &s;udden|ly pa&s;&s;e away like a &s;croule, and the elements of earth and wa|ter,<NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Pet. 3.12.13</NOTE> and all the creatures in them &s;hall be di&s;&s;olved with fire. When all the&s;e things &s;hall be done, the &s;ound of the la&s;t Trumpet by the Arke-angell, and Chri&s;t &s;hall come in a mo|ment in the Clouds with power, and glory, and a great traine of Angels.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ma. 24 30.31</NOTE></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what &s;hall Gods children doe at that day, both that are li|ving and dead?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The dead bodies of the elect which are returned into their fir&s;t principles, &s;hall be by the powerfull working of
<PB N="27" REF="21"> God recallected and gathered of the &s;ame matter which was &s;evered and &s;cattered into all the elements,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 15.22. And 43.44. 1 Cor. 15.52.</NOTE> even the &s;elfe &s;ame bodies they laid downe in death, though torne in peeces, &s;hall ri&s;e againe, and the &s;oules of them &s;hall de&s;cend from heaven, and by Gods power be brought againe into tho&s;e bodies, and this &s;hall be at the &s;ound of the Trumpet. And as for tho&s;e that be then living, they &s;hall be changed in a moment; and this mutation &s;hall be in &s;tead of death. And at that time all the bodies of the elect &s;hall receiue their full redemption, and be made like the glorious body of Chri&s;t; and therefore glorious, &s;pirituall, immortall, and free from all corruption or infirmi|ties.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is the i&s;&s;ue and end of this their glorious Re&s;ur|rection?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>That they may receiue the &s;entence of eternall ab&s;oluti|on, for when they are all Convented before the tribunall &s;eate of Chri&s;t, he will forthwith place the elect &s;evered from the reprobate, and taken vp into the ayre at his right hand, and to them being written in the booke of life, he will pronounce this &s;entence; <HI>Come you ble&s;&s;ed of my Father,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 25.33.34.</NOTE> <HI>po&s;&s;e&s;&s;e the King|dome prepared for you from the beginning of the world.</HI> And again, <HI>He &s;hall &s;et the &s;heepe on his right hand, and the goats on his left, and the elect &s;hall ever be with the Lord:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 The&s;. 4.17.</NOTE> and then after the &s;en|tence pa&s;&s;ed, &s;hall every one of the elect receiue the crowne of eternall glory, which Chri&s;t the righteous Iudge doth giue them who loved his appearing:<NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Tim. 4.8. 1 Pet. 5.4. Rev. 4.4.</NOTE> not as a reward for their me|rites, but as a reward of free mercy and grace, according to his promi&s;e. Then &s;hall they &s;it on their thrones as Iudges of the reprobate both Angels and men, as approovers of the righte|ous Iudgement of Chri&s;t. From this glorious throne and tri|bunall &s;eat, Chri&s;t &s;hall ari&s;e, and with all his glorious compa|ny of elect, both Angels and Saints, he &s;hall goe vp trium|phantly into the third loft of the heavens, the place of Gods mo&s;t &s;peciall pre&s;ence: &s;o that now may that &s;ong of <HI>David</HI> be truely verified; <HI>God is gone vp with triumph,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al 47.56.</NOTE> <HI>even the Lord with the &s;ound of the Trumpet: &s;ing pray&s;es to God, &s;ing pray&s;es &s;ing pray&s;es to our King.</HI> And the full con&s;ummation of the marri|age
<PB N="28" REF="22"> betweene Chri&s;t and his Spou&s;e the Church &s;hall be pro|claimed, and the marriage &s;ong mentioned in <HI>Iohn</HI> &s;hall be &s;ung, <HI>viz.</HI> Let vs be glad and reioyce, and giue honor to him, for the marriage of the Lambe is come, and his wife hath made her &s;elfe ready: <HI>Halleluiah,</HI> for the Lord God omnipotent raig|neth.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what &s;hall then be done when this glorious company &s;hall be gone victoriou&s;ly with Chri&s;t into heaven?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were; Chri&s;t &s;hall then pre&s;ent all the elect vnto his Father,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">oh. 17.12. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">k 14.23.24.</NOTE> as if he &s;hould &s;ay; Behold O righteous Father, the&s;e are they whom thou ha&s;t given me, I haue kept them and none of them is lo&s;t. I gaue them thy Word, and they beleeved it, and the world hated them, becau&s;e they were not of the world, even as I was not of the world; and now Father, I will that tho&s;e whom thou ha&s;t given me be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory which thou ha&s;t given me: and that I may be in them and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in me:<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">oh. 12.16.</NOTE> that the world may know that thou ha&s;t &s;ent me, and that thou ha&s;t loved them as thou ha&s;t loved me.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is their e&s;tate now when Chri&s;t hath pre&s;ented them vnto the Father after Iudgement?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were; that now they inioy immediate ble&s;&s;edne&s;&s;e in heaven.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is heaven?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It is a mo&s;t excellent place, repleni&s;hed with all plea&s;ures that belong to eternall life, bli&s;&s;e, and happine&s;&s;e: where the Maie&s;tie of God is &s;eene face to face:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Chro. 30.27</NOTE> for which cau&s;e it is cal|led <HI>the habitation of holine&s;&s;e:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Cor. 12.2. Cor. 5.1. to 10. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;al. 16.11.</NOTE> and <HI>Paul</HI> was taken vp into the third heaven, a place after which the Saints are &s;et a longing: here Gods pre&s;ence and right hand is mo&s;t manife&s;ted, for the fulne&s;&s;e of joy and everla&s;ting plea&s;ures of his &s;onnes and &s;er|vants. It is called, <HI>the heaven of heavens,</HI> or, <HI>the third heaven,</HI> called <HI>Paradice,</HI> whether Chri&s;t in his humane nature a&s;cended farre aboue all vi&s;ible heavens. We are not able to conceiue it, as in deed it is, it being a &s;pirituall heaven, yet it is firme and tran&s;parent, otherwi&s;e &s;hould it not be a fit habitation for the bodies of men, which were not to hang in the ayre, but to re&s;t
<PB N="29" REF="22"> in a &s;olid place prepared of God. It plea&s;eth the holy &s;pirit of God, con&s;idering our corrupted weakene&s;&s;e, to de&s;cribe the place of the glorious heaven, which we cannot e&s;timate by &s;uch things as be mo&s;t precious in mans account and e&s;timati|on: and for this cau&s;e likeneth heaven to be as a great and ho|ly Cittie, naming it the heavenly <HI>Ieru&s;alem,</HI> where onely God and his people who are &s;aved doe dwell, &s;uch as are written in the Lambes booke of life, as you &s;hall &s;ee it further largely de|&s;cribed in the 21. of the <HI>Revelations.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rev. 22.</NOTE> And &s;o much for the place of their ble&s;&s;edne&s;&s;e: now for the &s;ub&s;tance and obiect of their bli&s;&s;e, it is God him&s;elfe, who&s;e mo&s;t &s;peciall pre&s;ence is in this heavenly <HI>Ieru&s;alem.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How is God ble&s;&s;edne&s;&s;e vnto his children in heaven?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>By giving him&s;elfe to them for their reward. The Lord &s;aid to <HI>Abraham, I am thine exceeding great reward:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 15.1.</NOTE> marke the Lord &s;aith; <HI>I am thy reward;</HI> nay more, <HI>I am thy great reward;</HI> nay more, <HI>thy exceeding great reward.</HI> And <HI>David</HI> &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 16.5.</NOTE> <HI>the Lord is the portion of mine inheritance:</HI> and mu&s;t not they be ble&s;&s;ed that are thus rewarded? Yes &s;urely; for the <HI>P&s;almi&s;t</HI> &s;aith, <HI>Ble&s;|&s;ed are the people who&s;e God is the Lord.</HI> Now this is the reward of godly and good workes, not becau&s;e the workes of the god|ly haue merited it, but by rea&s;on of Gods free favour, who ac|cepteth their workes, and that in re&s;pect of the merit of Chri&s;ts ju&s;tice and righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e imputed vnto the children of God. <HI>The wages of &s;inne is death,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 6.23. Rev. 22.12.</NOTE> <HI>but eternall life is the gift of God through Ie&s;us Chri&s;t our Lord. Behold I come &s;hortly, and my reward is with me, to giue every man according as his workes &s;hall be.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But are you not able to &s;hew how God doth giue him&s;elfe for a reward vnto his children, and of their ble&s;&s;edne&s;&s;e thereby?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Alas none is able to conceiue or &s;peake to any purpo&s;e of it, much le&s;&s;e to de&s;cribe it: it is &s;uch an eternall weight of glory and bli&s;&s;e, that all the afflictions of this pre&s;ent life are not worthy of it. Yet if I &s;hall relate &s;ome &s;mall &s;cantling there|of, as I haue learned by the Word of God and Mini&s;tery of the Church, I hope I &s;hall not be counted pre&s;umptuou&s;ly bold, in regard that I am vnlearned: but my con&s;cience beares me witne&s;&s;e, my ends are good, which are the&s;e; principally the
<PB N="30" REF="23"> glory of God; next the edification of the private members of the my&s;ticall body of Chri&s;t. It plea&s;ed God in the beginning of time to create the heaven and the earth,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 1.20. Gen. 1.</NOTE> and in them innu|merable creatures; by which creation his eternall power and Godhead are &s;eene; his workes being con&s;idered, and the&s;e creatures were all good, now the&s;e good creatures, from the lea&s;t to the greate&s;t, according to the agen&s;ie of their created natures, doe in &s;ome &s;ort re&s;emble their fir&s;t efficient God him&s;elfe, and looke wherein they doe re&s;emble him, it plea|&s;eth God to a&s;cribe vnto him&s;elfe, by giving vnto him&s;elfe at|tributes accordingly: and why or what may be the rea&s;on, but onely to make him&s;elfe better apprehended by vs and knowne vnto vs: he is aboue our conceiving, and therefore for the helpe of our &s;implicitie and weakene&s;&s;e, he hath given vnto him&s;elfe the&s;e attributes: God doth attribute vnto him|&s;elfe goodne&s;&s;e, and in this attribute, all the creatures doe re|&s;emble him: but we mu&s;t learne to know, how, and what is the difference betweene the goodne&s;&s;e that is in God,<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 106.1.</NOTE> and the goodne&s;&s;e that is in creatures: the attributes of God are, as the learned &s;ay, given vnto him both in the <HI>Concret</HI> and al&s;o in the <HI>Ab&s;tract;</HI> in the <HI>Concret,</HI> the <HI>P&s;alme</HI> la&s;t recited; and in the <HI>Ab&s;tract,</HI> when he is &s;aid to be goodne&s;&s;e it &s;elfe, and &s;o the a|lone good, as our Saviour &s;peaketh. In the fir&s;t, God is good, in the &s;econd Text, God is the chiefe&s;t good, the onely good, yea goodne&s;&s;e it &s;elfe. In creatures there are degrees of good|ne&s;&s;e, as &s;ome good, &s;ome better, &s;ome better then they, &s;ome be&s;t of all, and no creatures can goe any further in degrees then to be be&s;t of all: but God is aboue all degrees, for he is good|ne&s;&s;e it &s;elfe; and &s;o it is in all other attributes: for creatures are limited, but God is without all limits, all attributes are in|finite in God, for they are his very e&s;&s;ence. A man may be a man, though not a wi&s;e man, and he may be a man, though not a &s;trong man, and a man though not a beautifull man, he may be a man though not a great man: but God cannot be God, except he be wi&s;e, for wi&s;edome is his e&s;&s;ence; and he cannot be God, except he be &s;trong, beautifull, great, for he is wi&s;edome it &s;elfe, &s;trength it &s;elfe, beautie it &s;elfe, and great|ne&s;&s;e
<PB N="31" REF="23"> it &s;elfe. All the&s;e and many more of his attributes are in|finite in him, for they are his infinite e&s;&s;ence; take them away, and you take away his very being. <HI>Who will &s;how vs any good,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 4.9.</NOTE> &s;aith the <HI>P&s;almi&s;t</HI> in the per&s;on of the wicked? Good is de&s;ired of all men, both godly and vngodly, but what good doth the wicked de&s;ire, even temporall, vani&s;hing, and &s;en&s;itiue good; but the godly de&s;ire and &s;eeke after the chiefe good, which is God him&s;elfe, and therefore in the kingdome of bli&s;&s;e they enioy him for euer. God is the very Center of the &s;oule of man. If a man &s;hould con&s;ider tho&s;e good things with which the &s;oules of men are delighted here below; is a man deligh|ted in wi&s;edome, and by his labour and the ble&s;&s;ing of GOD thereupon, hath attained a good mea&s;ure of wi&s;edome and knowledge: yet what &s;aith the Apo&s;tle, <HI>let him that thinkes he knowes, and hath knowledge: know, that he knowes nothing yet as he ought to know:</HI> and if a man could attaine the wi&s;edome of the wi&s;e&s;t, even <HI>Salomon</HI> him&s;elfe, yet would not the &s;oule be filled till he obtaine the Center and e&s;&s;ence of wi&s;edome, God him&s;elfe. Is it riches with which a man is delighted? Why, here in earth the Canker and Moth corrupt, and our bagges waxe old, and the theefe commeth to &s;teale,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Mat. 6.19.20.</NOTE> and therefore no &s;ecu|ritie in them, though a man inioy abundance of them, nay the greate&s;t abundance cannot &s;atisfie the &s;oule and mind of man, which will never be contented truely vntill it enioyeth the true trea&s;ure and e&s;&s;ence of riches, God him&s;elfe in the King|dome of heaven. This is that riches which the children of God doe hunger and &s;eeke after, and &s;hall enioy everla&s;tingly af|ter Iudgement. Is it pray&s;e and glory that men delight in? Earthly glory oft turneth to &s;hame to them that de&s;ire and ear|ne&s;tly &s;eeke after it: but the children of God earne&s;tly de&s;ire, delight, and &s;eeke the glory of God, and God approoueth of them, and crowneth them with a crowne of eternall glory for euer. All men naturally de&s;ire life, yea long life, &amp; it is a good ble&s;&s;ing; <HI>For</HI> (&s;aith <HI>Salomon) long life is an honour to a man, if it be found in the way of righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e.</HI> And &s;ure in this world God is our life, but he is our life by meanes of his creatures, which are the elements and the elementary creatures compo&s;ed of
<PB N="32" REF="24"> their mixture, but after this life he is life to his children im|mediately; for he not onely hath life, which the creatures ma|ny of them haue, but he is life, which none of the creatures are. Which God is to his children by meanes of his elementary creatures, is but temporall, but as he is immediate life vnto them, it is eternall, and that is in heaven after Iudgement. To be &s;hort, I &s;ay what&s;oever the &s;oule of man doth delight in vp|on the earth, take away the &s;inne of the delight, and God is it vnto them in an vnconceiueable and in an vnutterable man|ner, far beyond the delights of ten thou&s;and worlds, if it were po&s;&s;ible to inioy them. To proceede, after Iudgement God &s;hall be all in all to his elect, for when all things &s;hall be &s;ub|dued vnto him, that is Chri&s;t, then &s;hall the &s;onne al&s;o him&s;elfe be &s;ubiect vnto him that did &s;ubdue all things vnto him,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor 15.28.</NOTE> that God may be all in all. Oh what a happie and ble&s;&s;ed eternall fellow&s;hip is there betweene God and his children, even an e|ternall cohabitation in heaven, through the Lambe Chri&s;t Ie|&s;us.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 14.23.</NOTE> For our Savior &s;aith in <HI>Iohn; If any man loue me, he will keepe my Word, and my Father will loue him, and we will come vnto him and dwell with him.</HI> And againe; <HI>Who&s;oever confe&s;&s;eth that Ie&s;us Chri&s;t is the Sonne of God,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Ioh. 4.15.</NOTE> <HI>God dwelleth in him and he in God. And the Cittie of their cohabitation the heavenly Ieru&s;alem hath no neede of Sunne or Moone to &s;hine in it:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rev. 21.23.</NOTE> <HI>for the glory of the Lord God doth light it, and the Lambe is the light of it.</HI> And againe; <HI>In the midde&s;t of the &s;treete of it, and of either &s;ide of the river was the tree of life, which bare twelue manner of fruits, and gaue fruit every moneth: and the leaues of the tree &s;erved to heale the Nati|ons with.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rev. 22.2.</NOTE> ver&s;. 5. <HI>And there &s;hall be no night, and they need no Can|dle, nor light of the Sunne, for the Lord giveth them light: and they &s;hall raigne for evermore.</HI> In this life the children of God, even the be&s;t of them, could but &s;ee Gods backe parts, and that by meanes of his Word and workes, but after Iudgement he hath inabled them to looke him in the face, even in his Maie&s;ty and glory; for &s;o the Lord hath promi&s;ed in the <HI>Revelation,</HI> in the&s;e words;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rev 22.4.</NOTE> <HI>And they &s;hall &s;ee his face, and his name &s;hall be in their foreheads:</HI> and for this doe Gods children pray with the Pro|phet <HI>David</HI> in the&s;e words;<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al 4.7.</NOTE> <HI>Lord lift vp the light of thy counte|nance
<PB N="33" REF="24"> vpon vs:</HI> and then in the &s;ixteenth P&s;alme with the &s;ame Prophet,<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al 17.17.</NOTE> <HI>I will behold thy face in righteou&s;nes and when I awake I &s;hall be &s;atisfied with thine Image:</HI> Now are Gods children come to that e&s;tate that they hunger and thir&s;t no more, their holy de&s;ires are fully and compleatly filled with plea&s;ures for evermore; now are they come to their perfection of glory: in not onely everla&s;tingly beholding the glorious face of Gods mo&s;t infinite and excellent maie&s;tie: <HI>Reuel.</HI> 22.4. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 17.17. but al&s;o in that they &s;hall be mo&s;t like to Chri&s;t in glory, name|ly, <HI>holy, incorruptible, iu&s;t, honorable, excellent, beautifull, &s;trong,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Iohn 1.3.2. Phil 3.21. 1 Pet. 1.4. Math. 25.34. Rev. 5.10. and 21.7.</NOTE> <HI>mighty</HI> and <HI>nimble:</HI> they are now come perfectly to inherit Gods kingdome, even <HI>the new heaven and new earth &s;hall be their inheritance.</HI> Thus farre I haue di&s;cour&s;ed vnto you my poore meditations of the glory and ble&s;&s;ednes of Gods Saints and Children in the kingdome of heaven after the iudgement.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what are the effects and fruites that come of this glory and ble&s;&s;ednes of Gods children.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were that it is fir&s;t eternall ioy which is proved by the 16 <HI>P&s;al.</HI> ver&s;. 16. in the&s;e words, <HI>thou wilt &s;hew mee the path of life, in thy pre&s;ence is the fulnes of ioy, and at thy right hand there is plea&s;ure for evermore:</HI> and al&s;o the 36. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> ver&s;e 8. this ioy is eternall, for Chri&s;t &s;aith, that <HI>our ioy &s;hall no man take from vs:</HI> Seconly, the &s;econd fruit is the perfect &s;ervice of God, as is plaine by the&s;e places, <HI>Revel.</HI> 21. ver&s;e 3. and 5. Chap. 12.13 and Chap. 11.17. the manner of this &s;ervice is to pray&s;e and wor&s;hip God by God him&s;elfe immediately, for in heaven there is neither Temple, Ceremony, nor Sacrament, for all God him&s;elfe together with the Lambe Chri&s;t doth &s;upply, <HI>Revel.</HI> 21.22. <HI>I &s;aw no Temple therein, for the Lord God almigh|tie, and the Lambe are the Temple of it:</HI> the &s;ervice &s;hall be day|ly and perpetuall without intermi&s;&s;ion: for <HI>Iohn</HI> &s;aith, they are in the pre&s;ence of the throne of God, and &s;erue him day and night in his Temple: and thus as well as I can, I haue de&s;cribed vnto you the invi&s;&s;ible Church of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well Seigneour</HI> George, <HI>I haue heard your di&s;cour&s;e of the in|vi&s;&s;ible Church, and by it you haue plea&s;ured me &s;omething in pa&s;|&s;ing the time in the weari&s;omenes of our walking.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="34" REF="25">
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Truely Seigneur <HI>Phillip,</HI> the pa&s;&s;ing the time in the wea|ri&s;omnes of our walking is not the end I aymed at in my di&s;|cour&s;e, but the glorifying of God in your conver&s;ion and edi|fication in, and to the truth of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>For my conver&s;ion and edification let that pa&s;&s;e, and proceede to that which as I remember you told me you would proue, that a converted childe of God might be a&s;&s;ured of his &s;alvation in this life, and that for ever in the life to come, he &s;hould remaine ble&s;|&s;ed for ever, if I forget not, you &s;ayd &s;o.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I did promi&s;e you &s;o, and will indeavour as well as I can to proue it. And although I know that your Church doth oppo&s;e it, yet I take it no Article of religion is more cleare to be proved then it by the word of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Why our Church doth teach that none can be a&s;&s;ured of his &s;alvation, but by &s;peciall revelation as the Apo&s;tle</HI> Paul <HI>was.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>But our Church doth teach that a childe of God being converted may know by ordinarie faith that hee &s;hall be &s;a|ved.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Come let me heare you proue it, I feare you will doe it but &s;lenderly.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Fir&s;t, I will &s;hew you by the word of God, that a Con|vert may be a&s;sured: next the evident te&s;timonies whereby he may in a le&s;se or greater mea&s;ure, be infallibly a&s;sured of his &s;alvation: for the fir&s;t, I alledge fir&s;t this place of Scripture written by the mini&s;tery of <HI>Peter</HI> thus,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> P<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">t. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">.10.</NOTE> <HI>Wherefore brethren giue rather diligence to make your calling and election &s;ure:</HI> this pre|cept is not to make the elect knowne and &s;ure to God, for hee knowes them alreadie, being written in his booke of election, but it is to make it &s;ure vnto them&s;elues by Gods workes as the coherence of the place doth &s;hew: the next place is out of <HI>Paul</HI> to the <HI>Corinthians</HI> in the&s;e words, <HI>now we haue received not the &s;pirit of the world,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> Cor. 2.12.</NOTE> <HI>but the &s;pirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are given vs of God,</HI> in this place it is evident that what ble&s;&s;ings &s;oever the Lord be&s;toweth on his children whether they be temporall or &s;pirituall, the &s;pirit of God doth make them knowne to them, and a&s;sure them of them as that their Election, effectuall vocation, Iu&s;tification, Sanctification
<PB N="35" REF="25"> Salvation, Faith, Repentance, new Obedience, and what&s;oe|ver benefit from Chri&s;ts whole mediation, accrueth vnto them. The next place is out of the 25. <HI>P&s;alme,</HI> in the&s;e words, <HI>the &s;e|cret of the Lord is reueiled to them that feare him, and his coue|nant to giue them vnder&s;tanding.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 25.13.</NOTE> In which place it is &s;ayd that Gods &s;ecrets, even the &s;ecret of our election, is reveiled and made knowne vnto them, as al&s;o the covenant of grace, mer|cy and favours for their better vnder&s;tanding: For what &s;e|cret is it that he there &s;peaketh of? not the &s;ecret he revealeth to other men; but the &s;ecret that hee worketh in them&s;elues in particular and the covenant of fauour and grace that they may vnder&s;tand it in particular: The fourth place is in the <HI>Revel.</HI> in the&s;e wordes, <HI>to him that overcometh will I giue to eate of the Manna that is hid, and will giue him a white-&s;tone and in the &s;tone a new name written, which no man knoweth,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rev. 2.1<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">.</NOTE> <HI>&s;aving he that receiveth it:</HI> By this Manna is ment the bread of eternall life which is invi&s;ible, heavenly and &s;pirituall, which is kept &s;ecret with God from before all eternitie: and by the white &s;tone and new name is ment a &s;igne and te&s;timony of newnes of life, in holines and righteou&s;nes, by putting on the newe man, that none doe know &s;aue the &s;pirit of man which is in him&s;elfe being inward, thus farre haue I proved that a true Chri&s;tian may be a&s;&s;ured of his &s;alvation.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But what are the evident te&s;timonies whereby they doe know they are in an e&s;tate of grace and favour with God, and con&s;equently that they &s;hall be &s;aved?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were that all the elect not onely may be as I haue proved before, but are indeede made &s;ure of their election, bli&s;&s;e and &s;alvation, and this a&s;&s;urance they haue at the time of their effectuall calling, and not before, and this a&s;&s;urance is done many wayes: fir&s;t there are two inward infallible te&s;ti|monies of our &s;alvation, the fir&s;t is Gods &s;pirit, the next is our &s;pirit, both are mentioned in the 8. to the <HI>Romans,</HI> in the&s;e words, <HI>the &s;ame &s;pirit beareth witnes with our &s;pirit, that wee are the children of God;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 8.16.</NOTE> the &s;pirit of God beareth witnes of our adoption and &s;alvation, by applying to the heart the promi|&s;es of God touching the remi&s;&s;ion of &s;innes, and life everla&s;t|ing
<PB N="36" REF="26"> by Chri&s;t, which are generally propou~ded by the publike mini&s;tery of the word:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 8.15. Gala. 4.6.</NOTE> now Gods &s;pirit never departeth from our &s;pirits, but dwelleth &amp; abideth in vs, &s;peaketh in vs, &s;hew|eth for<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">h his power and prayeth in vs: What can be more cer|taine then the te&s;timony and witnes of the &s;pirit, which <HI>&s;ear|cheth all things even the deepe things of God:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor 2.10.</NOTE> therefore he can mo&s;t truely make knowne, and reveale vnto Gods children the certaintie of their &s;alvation: hee will not deceiue for he is the &s;pirit of truth,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Iohn 16.13.</NOTE> which cannot deceiue, nor be deceived: concerning this te&s;timony of Gods &s;pirit it is a my&s;tery to fle&s;h and bloud, it is a thing more ea&s;ie to feele then to ex|pre&s;&s;e, two &s;peciall markes there be which will di&s;cerne be|tweene the delution of Satan, who will counterfeit a&s;surance in the hearts of hypocrites, and the true a&s;surance of Gods &s;pirit in the hearts of Gods children: Fir&s;t that a&s;surance which is felt in the heart of Gods children, when their heart is humbled and ca&s;t downe, and is like the Kingly Prophet <HI>Davids</HI> heart, who &s;ayth, <HI>my heart is like waxe, it is moulten in the mid&s;t of my bowels:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 12.14.</NOTE> that a&s;surance no doubt is wrought by the &s;pirit of God: take me a man confounded in him&s;elfe, with the perplexities of his con&s;cience for &s;inne, as was <HI>David, who roared for the griefe of his heart,</HI> and as <HI>Ezechiah, who mour|ned as a Doue</HI> for his &s;inne:<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 38 8. I&s;a. 3.8.14. Iob 6.4.</NOTE> and having as <HI>Iob</HI> &s;ayth, <HI>the terrors of God fighting again&s;t him;</HI> I &s;ay a man comforted in this mi|&s;ery, by a&s;suring him of his &s;alvation, mu&s;t needes be done by the &s;pirit of God; the Devill when men are a &s;leepe in their &s;inne, he v&s;eth to bring them to a dead &s;ecurity, &amp; a fal&s;e a&s;surance of their &s;alvation: but when they come to be woun|ded in con&s;cience for their &s;innes, then hee taketh another cour&s;e, fearing they &s;hould flie to Chri&s;t to be healed, and therefore he laboureth to bring them to de&s;paire, or to de&s;pe|rate ends, as we may &s;ee in <HI>Caine</HI> and <HI>Iudas,</HI> and many fearefull examples in the&s;e our dayes, but God who is rich in mercy, doth comfort the hearts of his cho&s;en ones, and giues them by his &s;p<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">rit, a ble&s;sed a&s;surance of his favour and loue in Ie&s;us Chri&s;t for their &s;alvation, for God knoweth that the <HI>&s;pirit of a man can helpe his infirmitie</HI> of his body, <HI>but a wounded &s;pirit
<PB N="37" REF="26"> who can beare;</HI> that is, no man can beare it, therefore hee &s;trengtheneth them by his power. And thus of the a&s;&s;urance of &s;aluation which Gods children haue by the witne&s;&s;e of the &s;pirit of God, when they are humbled in con&s;cience for &s;inne.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is the &s;econd marke whereby we may know that this a&s;&s;u|rance is wrought by the holy Gho&s;t, and not by the delu&s;ion of Sa|tan.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that this a&s;&s;urance wrought by Gods &s;pirit is done by the v&s;e of the meanes, which is the Preaching of the Word of God, by attentiue hearing Sermons, and the Scrip|tures read: Meditation of Gods Word, prayer, and the right v&s;e of the Sacraments. The&s;e are the ordinary meanes which God v&s;eth to bring men to an e&s;tate of &s;alvation, and God doth not ordinarily without the&s;e meanes giue &s;alvation to a|ny, for the &s;pirit of God doth affect his owne cour&s;e and ordi|nance in conuerting &s;oules vnto him&s;elfe: and the deuill doth labour to preuent the&s;e &s;traight wayes of the Lord by drawing to coldne&s;se and negligent v&s;e of the&s;e meanes. Is a man there|fore <HI>diligent in giuing attendance at the po&s;ts of the Lawes dore?</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Pro. 8.33. Iere. 15.16. P&s;al. 119.103 P&s;al. 62 8.</NOTE> Is Gods word the joy and rejoycing of his heart? Are the pro|mi&s;es of God &s;weete vnto his mouth? Is it a delight to him to communicate with the Saints at the Lords Table? Is it a mans loue to powre out his heart by prayer before God: then that a&s;&s;urance which is wrought by the&s;e meanes, is vndoubtedly the a&s;&s;urance of Gods &s;pirit.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is meant by our &s;pirit? and how doth our &s;pirit a&s;&s;ure vs of our &s;alvation?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Geor:</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, by our &s;pirit is not meant any thing which natu|rally is our own, either of &s;oule or body, concerning the &s;ub|&s;tance of the~ which we had by creation, or the created faculties of either of them: but by our &s;pirit is ment a &s;upernatural qua|litie of holine&s;se, and it i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> that new &s;pirit which God promi&s;ed by <HI>Ezechiell</HI> to put into the bowels:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ezech. 11.1<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> P&s;al. 51.10.</NOTE> and it is that right &s;pirit which <HI>David</HI> de&s;ired God to renew in him: indeede it is our con&s;cience which is &s;anctified by the bloud &amp; &s;pirit of Chri&s;t: for con&s;cience is a throughout part of the vnder&s;tanding, and
<PB N="38" REF="27"> being &s;anctified it beareth te&s;timony with Gods &s;pirit of the adoption of Gods children. And thus far what is meant by our &s;pirit.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, proceede, and how doth our &s;pirit a&s;&s;ure vs of our &s;alva|tion?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer, that the euidences of our a&s;&s;urance that ari&s;e out of a &s;anctified &s;pirit, are many, I will draw them to two heads. Fir&s;t, within vs that are Gods children there are euident tokens, &s;econdly, outward manife&s;t fruits: our inward tokens doe ei|ther re&s;pect either our &s;innes, or Gods goodne&s;&s;e and mercy. In the former, we con&s;ider either &s;innes pa&s;t, or &s;innes pre&s;ent, or &s;innes to come: and for &s;innes pa&s;t, Gods child is an vnfai|ned mourner, becau&s;e they are an offence again&s;t the Maie&s;tie of God;<NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Cor. 2.11.</NOTE> and this is called <HI>godly &s;orrow:</HI> and for &s;innes pre&s;ent, Gods child is an earne&s;t fighter, for there is a continuall Com|bate <HI>betweene the fle&s;h and the &s;pirit:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gal. 5.17.</NOTE> and touching &s;innes to come, Gods childe is a continuall Watcher of his heart <HI>to keepe it with all diligence:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Pro. 4.23.</NOTE> and Gods childe &s;triues <HI>to keepe him&s;elfe vn&s;potted of the world;</HI> and Gods childe doth <HI>flie the cor|ruption which is in the world through lu&s;t:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Iames 1.27. 2 Pet. 1.4.</NOTE> now for tho&s;e mercies &amp; goodne&s;se of God which concernes their &s;aluation, O how highly doe they pri&s;e them, ba&s;ely e&s;teeming all things in re|&s;pect of them;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Phil. 3.8.</NOTE> <HI>I count all things dung that I may winne Chri&s;t,</HI> &s;aith <HI>Paul:</HI> and the &s;oules of the Saints with <HI>David</HI> long and faint for the&s;e mercies of God for their &s;alvation:<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 63.3.</NOTE> <HI>yea their &s;oules thir&s;t for God:</HI> how is it po&s;&s;ible but a man mu&s;t needs con|clude an a&s;&s;urance to him&s;elfe of his ble&s;sed e&s;tate of grace, ha|ving in him &s;uch ble&s;&s;ed effects of grace. I could alledge other inward tokens which as &s;eales doe a&s;&s;ure a Saint of God of his &s;aluation. Doth any loue God, and loue to glorifie God? then know that that loue is an euident token that Gods loue is in him;<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Ioh. 4.10.</NOTE> for &s;aith Saint <HI>Iohn, Loue commeth of God:</HI> and yet further &s;aith, <HI>herein is that loue, not that we loved God, but that he loued vs fir&s;t.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Ioh. 4.8.</NOTE> Now Gods loue is eternall, for God is loue, and loue is e&s;&s;entiall in him, and the influence of his loue being &s;hed a|broad in our hearts,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 1.4.8. Rom. 5.5.</NOTE> doth reflect backe againe to loue God and all his holy wayes, and his children for his &s;ake. The like may
<PB N="39" REF="27"> be &s;aid of knowledge: for our Sauiour &s;aith; <HI>I know my &s;heepe,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 10.14.</NOTE> <HI>and I am knowne of mine.</HI> Where you &s;ee that Chri&s;t doth take knowledge of his &s;heepe, fir&s;t before they doe know him to be their Pa&s;tor. <HI>Away from me yee workers of iniquitie,</HI> &s;aith the ho|ly Gho&s;t, <HI>I know you not,</HI> that is, I know you not to be my chil|dren; but of the godly he &s;aith, <HI>I know them and they acknow|ledge mee:</HI> I might alledge other inward &s;ignes of Gods fauour for the a&s;&s;urance of bli&s;&s;e and happine&s;&s;e for euer, but the&s;e &s;hall &s;uffice. Now for outward fruits,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Luke. 3.8.</NOTE> they are &s;uch as <HI>Iohn Bap|ti&s;t</HI> &s;pake of, <HI>fruits worthy amendment of life.</HI> We haue two &s;peci|all places which make mention of them, fir&s;t in <HI>Paul</HI> to the <HI>Galatians, the fruit of the &s;pirit is loue, ioy, peace, long &s;uffering,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gal. 5.22.</NOTE> <HI>gentlene&s;&s;e, goodne&s;&s;e, faith, meekne&s;&s;e, temperance.</HI> The other place is in the &s;econd Epi&s;tle of <HI>Peter</HI> in the&s;e words; <HI>Ioyne vertue with your faith, and with vertue knowledge,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Pet. 1.5.6.10.</NOTE> <HI>and with know|ledge temperance, and with temperance patience, and with patience godline&s;&s;e, and with godline&s;&s;e brotherly kindne&s;&s;e, and with brother|ly kindne&s;&s;e loue.</HI> If we be diligent in the&s;e things to make our calling and election &s;ure, we &s;hall neuer fall. To conclude, Hath God put a louing childlike feare into thy heart? he coue|nanted by promi&s;e by the Mini&s;tery of the Prophet <HI>Ieremy,</HI> that <HI>he will put his feare into the hearts of his children, that they &s;hall neuer depart from him:</HI> Hath he &s;hed his loue in the heart of any? let him know for his comfort, that <HI>whom he loues he loues to the end.</HI> Hath the father drawne any to Chri&s;t to be &s;aued by his mediation? let him cheare vp him&s;elfe in this, that Chri&s;t hath promi&s;ed that whom the Father hath giuen him, he will ca&s;t none away; and al&s;o that Chri&s;t hath prayed for him, that his faith faile not. To conclude, hath any receiued the &s;ecret gifts of Gods loue and fauour? let him &s;olace and comfort him|&s;elfe in this, that the gifts and callings of God are without re|pentance. And thus I haue &s;hewed and proued vnto you, that the children of God may be, yea, and in Gods good time at their effectuall calling, are v&s;ually in &s;ome mea&s;ure a&s;&s;ured of their &s;aluation: and as they doe grow in grace, &s;o their a&s;&s;urance groweth more &s;trong.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="40" REF="28">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And haue you ended your di&s;cour&s;e of the invi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Yes &s;urely, I haue done my be&s;t endeuours to make it knowne vnto you, with the ble&s;&s;ed e&s;tate thereof, and now for this time we haue ended our conference, God ble&s;&s;e it vnto vs, as al&s;o our Iourney in walking, for we are now come to <HI>Lon|don.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, I haue given you the hearing, but come Senior</HI> George, <HI>at the next Taverne for our refre&s;hing wee will drinke a pint of white wine, with a Nutmeg and Sugar.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I am well contented, and then we will appoint the time and place of our next meeting, to conferre vpon the vi&s;ible Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am very loth to haue any further conference with here|tickes.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Be not afraid man, I hope it will turne to the be&s;t for the glorifying of God, and both our edifications.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Come, here is a Taverne, let vs goe in Drawer &s;hew vs a roome, and bring vs a pint of white wine, &s;ugar, and nutmeg, and a cake.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Drawer,</SPEAKER>
<P>You &s;hall Sir, Gentlemen here is your wine.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Fill out Drawer, here Senior</HI> George, <HI>I drinke to you.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I thanke you Senior <HI>Philip,</HI> and I pray God to ble&s;&s;e vnto vs the&s;e his creatures, that his &s;taffe and &s;trength in them may nouri&s;h our weake bodies for his &s;eruice.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Come on Senior</HI> George, <HI>I will agree to meete with you, but when &s;hall be the time, and where &s;hall be the place.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>If it plea&s;e God at Goodmans-fields neere Tower-hill vpon thur&s;day next.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I will meete you at the time and place, come Drawer take money for your Wine.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I pray Senior <HI>Philip,</HI> let me in curte&s;ie pay this &s;mall &s;hot, vpon our fir&s;t acquaintance.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>No, I called for it, and I will pay.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>If you will haue it &s;o, I thanke you; at our next meeting, I will requite it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well Senior</HI> George, <HI>farewell till thur&s;day.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="41" REF="28">
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I de&s;ire that we both may prepare our &s;elues, both by prayer vnto God, and holy meditation, that our Conference may be to the prai&s;e of God, and our owne edification; and &s;o for this time I take my leaue.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well met Seigneour</HI> George, <HI>I am come according to my pro|mi&s;e, about our conference about the vi&s;ible Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It is well done, I haue heard that it is the opinion of &s;ome of your Religion, that it is no &s;inne to breake promi&s;e with heretikes, which you account vs to be: and I know the practice of &s;ome hath beene &s;uch with my &s;elfe.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Come Senior</HI> George, <HI>begin what is the vi&s;ible Church, and how doe you define it.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I pray God we may begin our conference in his feare, and continue and end it to his glory and prai&s;e: and thus I define the vi&s;ible Church, it is but one, and is a &s;encible knowne Company that outwardly make profe&s;&s;ion, and em|brace the true and vncorrupt doctrine, which &s;upernaturally appertaines to the very e&s;&s;ence of Chri&s;tianity, and is nece&s;&s;a|rily required in every Chri&s;tian; now this Church I &s;ay, is but one, and yet devided into two parts, the fir&s;t part before the &s;econd part, &s;ince the comming of Chri&s;t, that part which &s;ince the coming of Chri&s;t, partly hath, and partly &s;hall here|after, embrace the Chri&s;tian Religion, wee terme as by a more proper name, the Church of Chri&s;t: the&s;e two parts of the Church, both of the Iewes and Gentiles, the holy Gho&s;t hath as it were incorporated them into one body, the words are the&s;e: <HI>that he might reconcile both vnto God in one bodie:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 2.15.16 Ephe. 2.6.</NOTE> as hee &s;ayth in the 2. Chapter, <HI>that the Gentiles &s;hould be inheritours al&s;o, and of the &s;ame body.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But wherein &s;tandeth the very e&s;&s;ence of a vi&s;ible Church, and of a vi&s;ible Chri&s;tian.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It &s;tandeth in this, in profe&s;&s;ion of <HI>one Lord, one Faith, and one Bapti&s;me:</HI> therefore the Apo&s;tle <HI>Peter</HI> &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 4.5.</NOTE> <HI>Let all the hou&s;e of I&s;raell know for a certainetie, that God hath made him both Lord and Chri&s;t; even Ie&s;us whom ye haue crucified:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Acts 2.3.6. Ioh. 13.13.</NOTE> there|fore Chri&s;tians they are not which call not him their Ma&s;ter and Lord: and from hence it came that fir&s;t at <HI>Antioch,</HI> and
<PB N="42" REF="29"> afterwards, throughout the whole world, all that are of the vi|&s;ible Church were called Chri&s;tians; but our naming of Ie|&s;us Chri&s;t the Lord, is not enough to proue vs Chri&s;tians, vnle&s;&s;e we imbrace faith in him, the &s;pirit of God &s;aith to the Angel of <HI>Pergamus, Thou keepe&s;t my name and ha&s;t not denied my faith:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ev. 2.23.</NOTE> Though we know and alow of the Chri&s;tian faith, yet in this we be but entering: entered we are not into the vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t before our admittance by the doore of Bap|ti&s;me, wherefore vpon the confe&s;&s;ion of Chri&s;tian faith, the <HI>Eunuch</HI> was baptized by <HI>Philip,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">cts 8.38. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">cts 22.16. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">cts 2.41.</NOTE> <HI>Paul</HI> by <HI>Ananias,</HI> and by <HI>Peter</HI> an huge multitude, which being baptized were received into the number of &s;oules added to the vi&s;ible Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But what be the markes of the vi&s;ible Church of God where|by a man may know it to be a Church of God.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The face of the Church vi&s;ible to our eyes, is &s;eene in the publike preaching of the word and the Sacraments admi|ni&s;tred according to Chri&s;ts in&s;titution, for where Gods word is preached and heard, and the &s;acraments admini&s;tred, there we mu&s;t be a&s;&s;ured is the vi&s;ible Church, for the&s;e are &s;ure in|faileable markes of the vi&s;ible Church, for where the&s;e are, there is Chri&s;t publikely proclaimed to be Lord of our &s;alva|tion: for by the&s;e the Church is gathered in the name of Chri&s;t,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 18.20.</NOTE> where Chri&s;t hath promi&s;ed his pre&s;ence.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And wherein con&s;i&s;ts the communion &s;ervice, or mini&s;tery of the vi&s;ible Chri&s;tian Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>That wherein they haue communion is the publike exer|ci&s;e of &s;uch duties as the&s;e mentioned in the Apo&s;tles actes, which is in&s;truction, breaking of bread, and prayers: but giue me leaue a little more to &s;peake of the mini&s;tery of the vi|&s;ible Church, as al&s;o of the invi&s;ible; God for the &s;inne of our fir&s;t parents might haue glorified him&s;elfe in his iu&s;t iudge|ment by condemning all mankind, but for the glorifying him&s;elfe in his rich mercies, he decreed to pa&s;&s;e by his &s;everi|tie of iu&s;tice, by preordaining &s;ome of the corrupt ra&s;call rout of mankind to eternall &s;alvation, and for the effecting of this, he hath ordained the mini&s;tery of the vi&s;ible Church, &s;o that there is none that doe attaine to be members of the ble&s;&s;ed
<PB N="43" REF="29"> &s;pirituall, and my&s;ticall body of Chri&s;t Ie&s;us before &s;poken of, but by the mini&s;tery of the vi&s;ible Church: he could haue &s;aved his Elect by his immediate power, or by the mini&s;tery of Angels; but God in mercy condi&s;cending to our weake|nes, doth offer vnto vs his heavenly favours in earthen ve&s;&s;els, we come not vnto an e&s;tate of grace in the my&s;ticall body of Chri&s;t, but by faith, we come not to faith, but by the Go&s;pel preached, as <HI>Paul</HI> &s;ayth, <HI>that faith is by hearing:</HI> now <HI>Paul</HI> wri|teth, <HI>that Chri&s;t, that he might fulfill all things gaue &s;ome Apo|&s;tles, &s;ome Prophets, &s;ome Evangeli&s;ts, and &s;ome Pa&s;tors,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 10.17.</NOTE> <HI>&amp; teach|ers for the repayring of the Saints, for the worke of the mini&s;tery, and for the edifying of the body of Chri&s;t, till we all meete together in the vnitie of faith, and that acknowledging of the &s;onne of God, vnto a perfect man, and to the mea&s;ure of the age of the fulnes of Chri&s;t.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 4.1<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">.</NOTE> God was able to make them that be his, perfect in a moment: yet will not haue them grow in &s;trength of faith, and manly age ordinarily; but by the bringing vp of the vi&s;ible Church we &s;ee the meane expre&s;&s;ed, that vnto Pa&s;tors is inioyned the preaching of the heavenly truth: wee &s;ee al&s;o how all (none excepted) are brought vnto this one rule, that they &s;hould with mild &s;pirits, and willing to learne, yeelde them&s;elues to the teachers to that v&s;e. Whereupon followeth that they are worthy to peri&s;h with famine and pining hunger, that refu&s;e the &s;pirituall meate of their &s;oules reached to them of God, by the hand of his Church. God doth breath faith into his chil|dren, but it is by the In&s;trument of the Go&s;pell and word of God: it is cleare that none &s;hall haue fellow&s;hip with God and Chri&s;t that refu&s;e to haue communion with the Church vi&s;ible: to this end Saint <HI>Iohn</HI> &s;ayth, <HI>that I &s;ay,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Iohn 1.3.</NOTE> <HI>which wee haue &s;eene, and heard, declare we vnto you,</HI> to what end did the Apo&s;tles declare that which they had heard and &s;eene, the end is, that you may al&s;o haue fellow&s;hip with vs, and is that all? no: and that our fellow&s;hip may be with the Father, and with his &s;onne Ie&s;us Chri&s;t. So that we mu&s;t fir&s;t haue fellow&s;hip and communion with the Church and Pa&s;tors thereof in their mini&s;tration, and then we &s;hall haue a ble&s;&s;ed communion with the Father and the Sonne.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="44" REF="30">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>All this I grant to be true, but that your markes of the Church be &s;omewhat cra&s;ed, for the Catholike Church doth &s;hew other marks whereby the vi&s;ible Church may be knowne, which we will hereafter di&s;cour&s;e of; but for this time, I pray proceede in your di&s;cour&s;e of the vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The markes I haue declared are infallible and certaine: and what your markes are, we &s;hall &s;ee and con&s;ider anone; and now I will proceede as you de&s;ire. Tho&s;e I &s;ay againe who are marked with this one marke of the outward profe&s;&s;ion of one Lord, one faith, and one Bapti&s;me, the vi&s;ible Church doth acknowledge them for her children: tho&s;e &s;hee taketh for aliants and &s;trangers in whom the&s;e things are not found, and therefore <HI>Turkes, Iewes,</HI> and <HI>Infidells,</HI> are not of the Church. Others we may not deny to be of the vi&s;ible Church as long as the&s;e be not wanting in them, if they haue the&s;e, they are Chri&s;tians by externall profe&s;&s;ion, though they be vild by con|uer&s;ation. Of the invi&s;ible Church, the&s;e vile ones, are not, becau&s;e that body con&s;i&s;ts of none but true <HI>I&s;raelites,</HI> true Saints and &s;onnes of <HI>Abraham,</HI> which are indeed the children of God, and yet of the vi&s;ible Church; the&s;e may be and often are in re&s;pect of the maine parts of their outward profe&s;&s;ion, who in regard of the inward di&s;po&s;ition of their mind, yea of externall conuer&s;ation, yea euen of &s;ome parts of their very profe&s;&s;ion, are hatefull to God, and to the &s;ounder parts of the vi&s;ible Church. Our Sauiour therefore compareth the kingdome of heauen to a Net, whereinto all that commeth neither is, nor &s;eemeth good fi&s;h;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 13.47.</NOTE> and his Church he compareth to a field, where tares manife&s;tly knowne and &s;eene by all men do grow intermingled with good corne, and &s;o &s;hall it continue till the con&s;ummation of the world. It is cleare in Diuinitie that God hath had alwayes a Church vi&s;ible in the world, euen when the mo&s;t parts thereof were grieuou&s;ly infected with here&s;ie.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Yea, can the vi&s;ible Church erre, wee are taught that it cannot, therefore when you &s;ee conuenient time declare that further vnto mee?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I will God-willing, when time &s;erueth, but now I haue other things to relate vnto you of the vi&s;ible Church. The vi|&s;ible
<PB N="45" REF="30"> Church, as I haue &s;aid, is but one, yet be&s;ides the two parts before declared, <HI>viz.</HI> the one before, the other &s;ince Chri&s;ts comming; that part &s;ince Chri&s;ts comming, which we call the Church of Chri&s;t is al&s;o diuided into parts for your better vnder&s;tanding: I will draw a compari&s;on, the Sea you know is but one, yet hath diuers parts by name, as that part vp|on your Coa&s;ts wee call the <HI>Spani&s;h</HI> Sea, and of <HI>England</HI> the <HI>Engli&s;h</HI> Sea, vpon <HI>France</HI> the <HI>French</HI> Sea, and <HI>Ireland</HI> the <HI>Iri&s;h</HI> Sea, and &s;o of others; euen &s;o the Church, although I &s;ay it is but one, yet hath it diuers parts, as for example, the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> the Church of <HI>Greece,</HI> the Church of <HI>England,</HI> the church of <HI>Germany,</HI> the Church of <HI>Scotland,</HI> and &s;o of others, and all the&s;e make but one Church; as all tho&s;e parts of the Sea make but one Sea.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is it that vniteth all the&s;e parts into one body, wher|by the&s;e parts make but one vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It is the joynt profe&s;&s;ion and publike Preaching of the doctrine of one Lord, one faith, and one Bapti&s;me; for this one Lord is the onely head of the vi&s;ible Church, in whom they acknowledge them&s;elues to be vnited, and in him make but one body: and they all profe&s;&s;e and Preach faith in him, and all profe&s;&s;e to enter into the vi&s;ible Church by the doore of Bapti&s;me.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How doth it appeare, that the Church being one body is deuided into parts?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>By the Scriptures; For <HI>Paul</HI> writeth to the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> one of his Epi&s;tles, two other Epi&s;tles to the Church of <HI>Corinth,</HI> one to the Church of <HI>Gallatia,</HI> and another to the Church of <HI>Ephe&s;us,</HI> and &s;o to the <HI>The&s;&s;alonians, Philippians,</HI> the <HI>Colo&s;&s;ians,</HI> and to the Churches in priuate hou&s;es, and in the <HI>Revelation,</HI> the Angell to the &s;eauen Churches of <HI>A&s;ia.</HI> Thus it appeareth, that the vi&s;ible Church being one is diuided into parts, and &s;o it will be to the end of the world.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>If the Church be divided into parts, then it matters not what part a man ioyne with in the &s;ervice of God?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Oh yes Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> there is great care to be had with what Church we doe joyne in the wor&s;hip of God, and what
<PB N="46" REF="31"> pa&s;tors we &s;ubmit our &s;elues vnto, to be the guide of our &s;oules vnto eternall life; for the vi&s;ible Church though it be but one, and divided into parts, yet is not every part equally &s;incere; for &s;ome is more pure then others, &s;ome more corrupt then o|thers, &s;ome are &s;o corrupted with devili&s;h doctrine of humane inventions and traditions, that a man can &s;carce di&s;cerne in it the face of a vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How &s;hall a private man, as I am know, which is the pur<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;t Church to ioyne with in the Wor&s;hip of God?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>By the puritie of doctrine profe&s;&s;ed and publikely Prea|ched.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Can &s;uch &s;imple men as you and I am iudge of the Church, and of the doctrine thereof?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The per&s;ons of their Teachers they may not judge, but they may examine their doctrine, as the <HI>Bereans</HI> did <HI>Paules</HI> Preaching, by &s;earching the Scriptures whether tho&s;e things were &s;o which he Preached; and if they haue the &s;pirit of di&s;|cerning tho&s;e things that differ, as the &s;heepe of Chri&s;t haue, for our Saviour &s;aith, <HI>My &s;heepe heare my voice, and a &s;tranger they will not heare.</HI> And S. <HI>Iohn</HI> &s;aith by Commandement, <HI>be|leeue not every &s;pirit, but try the &s;pirits whether they are of God. Paul</HI> &s;aith, that <HI>the &s;pirituall man di&s;cerneth all things,</HI> that is, all doctrines of faith, &s;o far forth as he is &s;pirituall. And our Savi|our &s;aith, <HI>You &s;hall know them by their fruits,</HI> that is, by their doctrine and life. Thus you &s;ee how a childe of God may di&s;|cerne betweene the corrupt and vncorrupt Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>By this triall, which is in your iudgement the pure&s;t Church, and which is the mo&s;t corrupt?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Surely I will &s;peake my con&s;cience in the &s;ight of God, though compari&s;ons are di&s;liked of many, yet I thinke I may ju&s;tly &s;ay, that our Church the Church of <HI>England</HI> is of the former &s;ort: for the puritie of doctrine concerning &s;upernatu|rall truth reueiled by the Go&s;pell of Chri&s;t Ie&s;us, is as purely taught in her as in any Church in the world: therefore I beare &s;o much zeale to the glory of God, and &s;o much charitie and loue to my Countreymen and kindred in the fle&s;h, yea to all the Countreys of our King, vnited vnder his government,
<PB N="47" REF="31"> yea to all &s;trangers that are in them, that I could willingly &s;uf|fer &s;ome great lo&s;e to my &s;elfe, that they might be wonne to the loue of that truth which is profe&s;&s;ed &amp; publikely Preached by the Pa&s;tors of our Church: I meane all &s;uch as out of igno|rance haue alienated their minds from their owne &s;pirituall mother, and haue &s;ubmitted them&s;elues to tho&s;e Churches who are much more corrupt and impure.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And which in your iudgement is the mo&s;t corrupt and impure vi&s;ible Church?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Surely I will &s;peake my con&s;cience in the &s;ight of God, as I haue of the pure Church: I take the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> in the&s;e times to be the mo&s;t corrupt Church that I can reade of, and therefore not &s;afe for a Chri&s;tian to &s;ubmit to and joyne with in the &s;ervice of God; for in it are the people of God taught to &s;erue God by the precepts and traditions of men, in &s;uch &s;ort, that the light of the glorious Go&s;pell of Chri&s;t, can|not &s;hine vnto men as it &s;hould for their conver&s;ion and &s;alva|tion.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I perceiue you are a gro&s;&s;e hereticke by thus &s;peaking, for the Church of Rome is the mother Church, and out of her there is no &s;alvation, and &s;hee is a mo&s;t pure Church, as may appeare by tho&s;e markes whereby &s;hee is intituled.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I am &s;till contented you &s;hall call me hereticke: but I &s;ay againe that after the way which you call here&s;ie will I &s;erue the living God; and for your Church being the mother Church, I cannot &s;o affirme, becau&s;e if &s;he be a Church, yet &s;hee is but a part of the vi&s;ible Church, which is the mother of vs all; and as for tho&s;e children of God which are vnder the government of the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> I from my heart roote doe pittie them, for &s;hee behaveth her &s;elfe to them more like a cur&s;t &s;tepdame, then like a loving naturall mother: their &s;pirituall dyet for their &s;oules is a wicked mixture of corrupt humane inventions, with the milke of &s;incere truth, and if they will not eate this cor|rupt and vnwhole&s;ome dyet, then &s;hee beateth them with fag|got and fire; and as for tho&s;e markes wherewith you would proue the puritie of your Church, I hope you will let me heare them anon.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="48" REF="32">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well Seniour</HI> George, <HI>be reconciled to our Church, and doe not per&s;i&s;t &s;till in your errours.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I am a member of the vi&s;ible catholike Church, and that pure part thereof, where God hath placed me I will continue &s;till; for here is the word of eternall life, whether &s;hould I then goe?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is the rea&s;on you will not be reconciled to our Church, whereas yet you confe&s;&s;e it to be in &s;ome &s;ort a Church?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I haue yeelded vnto you one rea&s;on already, <HI>viz.</HI> becau&s;e of the corrupt doctrine therein taught; another rea&s;on is, be|cau&s;e we are commanded the contrary by the Word of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I pray let me heare tho&s;e Scriptures, by which you are detained from vniting your &s;elfe to our Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>True it is, I will not deny vtterly, that vnder the Papacy, there may be &s;ome Church of God, in regard of tho&s;e maine parts of Chri&s;tian Religion which they con&s;tantly &s;till pro|fe&s;&s;e, therefore I &s;ay of them, as <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aid of <HI>I&s;rael,</HI> that in one re&s;pect they are enemies, but in another, beloved of God; &s;o I &s;ay of them, that in re&s;pect of tho&s;e excellent parts of Chri&s;ti|an Religion which they profe&s;&s;e to beleeue, as the&s;e; that there is one God in Trinitie, that the &s;econd per&s;on in Trinitie a&s;&s;u|med our nature, that this &s;econd per&s;on vnited to our nature is the <HI>Me&s;&s;ias</HI> promi&s;ed of God, and Prophe&s;ied of by <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> and the Prophets; and they beleeue his pa&s;&s;ion and death, his re&s;urrection and a&s;cen&s;ion, with other more principles which they hold: but many of them are fouly corrupted by their owne &s;uper&s;titions and traditions, yet for tho&s;e maine parts of Chri|&s;tian Religion, I &s;uppo&s;e that they may be accounted vi&s;ible Churches in &s;ome &s;ort, but in regard of their retaining and maintaining of many other gro&s;&s;e corruptions, and vild &s;uper|&s;titions: they are not &s;uch Churches as a man with &s;afetie may joyne him&s;elfe vnto, e&s;pecially having di&s;covered the foule a|bu&s;e of them. What &s;aith God by the Prophet <HI>E&s;ay? Oh my people,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;a. 3.<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">2.</NOTE> <HI>they that lead thee, cau&s;e thee to erre, and de&s;troy the way of thy paths:</HI> nay what &s;aith he further both of the temporall and eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Rulers; <HI>the leaders of the people cau&s;e them to erre, and they that are led by them are devoured.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">I&s;a. 9.16.</NOTE> Had wee not neede
<PB N="49" REF="32"> therefore to take heede what Pa&s;tors we follow, &s;eeing that if they lead vs into errour, wee &s;hall be devoured: <HI>Iuda</HI> of old was much corrupted with Idolatry, but afterward became more pure, and at that time al&s;o was <HI>I&s;raell</HI> exceedingly corrup|ted, and therefore God commanded by the Mini&s;tery of the Prophet <HI>Ho&s;ea</HI> in the&s;e words; <HI>Though I&s;raell play the harlot,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ho&s;. 4.15.1<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">.</NOTE> <HI>yet let not Iuda &s;inne.</HI> And againe he &s;aith, <HI>Ephraim is ioyned to Idols, let him alone;</HI> if <HI>Rome</HI> will not purge her &s;elfe, mu&s;t not wee in the Church of <HI>England?</HI> What &s;aith <HI>Paul,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 10.17.</NOTE> <HI>What agreement hath the Temple of God with Idols: Wherefore come out from amongst them, and &s;eparate your &s;elues, and touch no vncleane thing, &s;aith the Lord, and I will receiue you.</HI> See the practi&s;es of old, when the Wor&s;hip of God was corrupted in &s;ub&s;tance;<NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Cro. 11.14.</NOTE> for when <HI>Ierobo|am had &s;et vp Idols in I&s;raell, then the Prie&s;ts and Levites came to Iuda and Ieru&s;alem to &s;erue the Lord.</HI> Againe, when the doctrine of Religion is corrupted in the maine &s;ub&s;tance of it, as S. <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith; <HI>If any man teach otherwi&s;e, and con&s;enteth not vnto the hole|&s;ome words of our Lord Ie&s;us Chri&s;t,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Tim. 6.3.<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">.</NOTE> <HI>and to the doctrine which is according to godline&s;&s;e, he is puffed vp and knoweth nothing.</HI> And in the fift ver&s;e, he &s;aith, <HI>from &s;uch &s;eparate your &s;elues.</HI> And <HI>Paul</HI> did practi&s;e this &s;eparation with &s;ome di&s;ciples,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Acts 19.9. &amp; 28. &amp; 28.</NOTE> both at <HI>Ephe&s;us</HI> and at <HI>Rome</HI> al&s;o, therefore fearefull is and will be the e&s;tate of tho&s;e men who are bred in the bo&s;om of a puer vi&s;ible Church, and yet reiect the doctrine purely offered vnto them from God by the hand of the Church: they liue in a Church &amp; amidde&s;t meanes whereby they might come to everla&s;ting bli&s;&s;e and life for ever, which yet becau&s;e they refu&s;e, the e&s;tate of them will be far wor&s;e then <HI>Turkes</HI> and <HI>Infidells,</HI> who injoy not the like meanes, therefore I doe wi&s;h you to looke better about you for feare of the danger that will follow.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well Seniour</HI> George, <HI>I haue heard you all this time, but I mu&s;t tell you that you de&s;erue to be &s;oundly puni&s;hed for that you haue &s;aid.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>You know Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> that it is the manner of galled hor&s;es to kick at him that labours to cure them, but I would not haue it be &s;o in you: but wherein haue I de&s;erved to be pu|ni&s;hed.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="50" REF="33">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Becau&s;e you haue &s;aid that the Church of Rome is the most corrupted and defiled Church in the world, that you can reade of, by rea&s;on of their maintenance of Idolatry many wayes, and their ma|ny &s;uper&s;titions and humane traditions.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>If I cannot proue that I haue &s;aid, then I am worthy to be puni&s;hed, but if I can proue that I haue &s;aid, then I de&s;erue not to be puni&s;hed, but my proofes I will defer till time &s;erue in our further conference; but in the meane time I de&s;ire you Seniour <HI>Philip</HI> charitably to conceiue of me. I doe not &s;peake that that I haue &s;aid out of hate to the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> &s;aue as it is the Church of Antichri&s;t: as appeares by the gro&s;&s;e cor|ruptions of doctrine therein taught, and that I &s;peake to you Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> I &s;peake in that common charitie which ought to be in every Chri&s;tian, for it is the dutie of private men to ex|hort one another, and to edifie one another in the mo&s;t holy faith: and this we are commanded in holy Writ. I dare not to take vpon me the office of a publike Teacher, for none ought to take vpon him that office, but he that is called thereunto as was <HI>Aaron:</HI> and the Apo&s;tle <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith, <HI>None can Preach except he be &s;ent:</HI> and I know in part what de&s;truction hath befalne men, for arrogating and intruding them&s;elues into that &s;acred office without calling: and if this Conference betweene you and I were written, and &s;hould come abroad into private hands of men, yet were it not a publike mini&s;teriall teaching, but in manner of a Chri&s;tian conference betweene them and me, as it is now betweene you and me by our mutuall di&s;cour&s;e: the Scriptures doth record divers worthy acts and &s;ayings of pri|vate men; their worthy &s;ayings, and holy &s;peeches, are as a conference with others, continuing to the end of the world, &amp; their godly actio~s are for Chri&s;tian mens imitations &s;o long as the world indureth, and therefore if it &s;hould come abroad, it were no intru&s;ion vpon any mini&s;teriall functio~, but a Chri&s;ti|an in&s;truction for holy edification.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Why man the Church of Rome can prooue it &s;elfe to be a mo&s;t pure Church by the Scriptures.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I know they doe the be&s;t they can to proue their fal&s;e Wor&s;hip by the Scriptures, but they doe but labour to build
<PB N="51" REF="33"> vp <HI>Babell</HI> with the &s;tones of <HI>Sion:</HI> but the &s;tones of <HI>Sion</HI> will not be &s;quared for that wicked building. Satan could alledge Scripture to our Saviour Chri&s;t: for the Devill having temp|ted our Saviour in the Wilderne&s;&s;e, when he could not pre|vaile, <HI>carried him into the holy Citie,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> 6.</NOTE> <HI>and &s;et him on a pixacle of the Temple, and &s;aid vnto him, if thou be the Sonne of God ca&s;t thy &s;elfe downe.</HI> Now for the effecting of this temptation, which was to de&s;troy our Saviour, and in him all the elect of God, he alled|geth Scripture: which is the 91. <HI>P&s;alme,</HI> the 11. and 12. ver&s;es,<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 91.11.</NOTE> the words are the&s;e; <HI>He &s;hall giue his Angels charge over thee:</HI> but &s;ee the deceitfull cunning of the Devill, he left out the latter part of the 11. ver&s;e, which is to <HI>keepe thee in all thy wayes,</HI> and proceeded to the 12. ver&s;e, <HI>They &s;hall beare thee in their armes, that thou hurt not thy foote again&s;t a &s;tone:</HI> &s;o that which he thought would hinder him in his purpo&s;e he left out: <HI>to keepe thee in all thy wayes,</HI> thought he if I alledge that, then will Chri&s;t goe the right way downe the &s;taires, and not ca&s;t him|&s;elfe off the pinacle (as I would haue him;) &s;o, the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> hath as I haue heard, compo&s;ed a publike Liturgie or &s;ervice-Booke, which is commonly called the <HI>Ma&s;&s;e-booke,</HI> and therein is written the ten morrall Commandements, but the &s;econd Commandement, which properly forbiddeth Ido|latrie, making of Images, or bowing to them by &s;erving God in, at, or before them: this Commandement is left out and two made of the la&s;t, to make vp the number. And all this is that the common people &s;hould not feare to fall downe to wor&s;hip ei|ther their Images them&s;elues, or God in, at, or before them. For I haue heard &s;ome &s;ay, that they tell the people that Ima|ges are Lay-mens bookes; al&s;o a reverend Divine of ours in his publike Mini&s;tery did &s;ay, that when their Writers doe write any Commentaries vpon the Scriptures, then in many things they a&s;&s;ent vnto our doctrine; but when they come to oppo&s;e our doctrine by way of Controver&s;ie, then they are quite contrary to their owne Commentaries: is this faire dea|ling with holy Scripture? Againe the Sacrament of the bloud of Chri&s;t they will not haue the common people to drinke thereof for their &s;pirituall thir&s;t, though Chri&s;t haue comman|ded,
<PB N="52" REF="34"> <HI>Drinke yee all of this.</HI> Thus they deale with the Church of God which con&s;i&s;ts as well of the Late people, as of the Cler|gie, and with the holy ordinances of God wherewith hee hath interre&s;ted them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>All this you &s;ay again&s;t the Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>will but a|gravate your puni&s;hment, if you fall into their hands.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I know it well, they haue beene a long time the rods of God, by which he hath corrected his children, but this is our comfort, that when he hath done, he will ca&s;t the rod into the fire: when they cannot overcome by their deluding argu|ments and per&s;wa&s;ions, the la&s;t argument, is hot per&s;ecutions, by poy&s;on, &s;tabbing, or faggot and fire; but this is our chear|ing vp, and our comfort, that all the afflictions they can lay vpon vs, is not worthy of the ioyes that &s;hall be reveiled, this hath beene the lot of Gods deare inheritance, that not onely the Infidels and Heathen, but their brethren that profe&s;&s;e the &s;ervice of the true God with them, &s;hould be their per&s;ecu|tors: <HI>Caine</HI> &s;acrificed to the true God, but yet killed his in|nocent brother <HI>Abell: I&s;aack</HI> and <HI>I&s;mael</HI> were both brought vp with one religious father in one religion, but <HI>I&s;maell</HI> flou|ted in di&s;daine his brother <HI>I&s;aack,</HI> and along time the <HI>I&s;mae|lites</HI> that proceeded from him, per&s;ecuted <HI>I&s;raels</HI> i&s;&s;ue: and &s;o likewi&s;e <HI>E&s;au</HI> and his i&s;&s;ue the <HI>Edomites,</HI> did per&s;ecute <HI>Iacob</HI> and the <HI>I&s;raelites:</HI> is it not plaine that the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> maketh outward profe&s;&s;ion of the true God and the Me&s;&s;ias Chri&s;t, and yet for this thou&s;and and more of yeares, hath im|brued her hands in infinite numbers of Chri&s;tian mens blood (which cryeth for vengeance as <HI>Abels</HI> doth:) therefore farre be it from me or any good Chri&s;tian to ioyne and &s;ubmit to that Church, for if I &s;hould, I &s;hould thereby alow and ap|proue of the wicked deeds done by it, and be acce&s;&s;ary to all the innocent blood by her &s;hed.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Why Senior</HI> George, <HI>they were heretikes, and not worthy to liue.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Not to di&s;pute now, whither all heretikes ought &s;o to be dealt with: &s;uch is indeede the condition of <HI>Rome,</HI> that vn|der the name of heretikes, they kill the deare &s;ervants of God:
<PB N="53" REF="34"> but admit that I &s;hould fall into their hands, I thanke God I feare it not, but I feare him that can ca&s;t &s;oule and body into hell, and in this feare, I re&s;olve con&s;tantly to per&s;i&s;t? I count not this mortall life to be at &s;o deare a rate, that I &s;hould be|tray the truth of God for the pre&s;ervation of it, for our Sa|viour &s;ayth, <HI>he that will loo&s;e his life for my names &s;ake, &s;hall finde it:</HI> but if they will needes &s;trike me, let them take the &s;word of the &s;pirit which is the word of God: but let them rightly v&s;e it like good ma&s;ters of fence, and then I will be their &s;cho|lar, and pro&s;trate my &s;oule and body, and all the faculties of them, in obedience vnto it; but let them not v&s;e it, or abu&s;e it rather, to maintaine their owne fal&s;e wor&s;hip and Idolatrie, for then I &s;hall with the &s;ame &s;word defend my &s;elfe again&s;t them: and if they will rightly v&s;e this &s;word, then I will be contented they &s;hall breake my head, for they &s;hall but let out my naturall ignorance and errour: let them thru&s;t it vp to the hilts into my heart, for then they &s;hall but let out the fil|thy corrupt blood of my originall &s;inne and corruption, and incline it more vnto Gods te&s;timonies, let them lanch my feete and lame them, yet they &s;hall but rightly order the feete of my affections in the way to heaven, in a word, if they &s;hall rightly v&s;e this &s;word in wounding me, they &s;hall make me whole, in killing me they &s;hall make me liue for ever: for it is the &s;word and word of eternall life.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am now re&s;olved to di&s;cour&s;e with you till you are weary; but one thing I thinke you haue forgot, and that is to proue vnto me by &s;cripture that the Church vi&s;ible may erre, and being one and de|vided into parts, is one part more pure, then another part more cor|rupt, I thinke you can hardly proue it by &s;cripture.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It may be proved, and I will doe my be&s;t endevour to proue it by &s;cripture, and any other que&s;tion wherein you or any of your religion doe &s;tand in doubt of, which remaine as &s;cruples in their con&s;ciences, whereby they are detained from vniting to our Church: I take it to be a truth, that a learned man of ours hath &s;ayd, that they mu&s;t needes run into over|&s;ights, that cannot or doe not rightly di&s;tingui&s;h: Fir&s;t be|tweene the Church vi&s;ible, and the Church invi&s;ible, and next
<PB N="54" REF="35"> betweene the le&s;&s;e corrupt or the purer, and the more corrupt or the impurer vi&s;ible Church, the want of the&s;e di&s;tincti|ons cau&s;eth much over&s;ight, what&s;oever we reade of the end|les and eternall loue, and &s;aving mercy which God &s;heweth to his Church, the onely propper &s;ubiect thereof, is the my&s;ti|call body and invi&s;ible Church: to this Church the Lord Chri&s;t hath thus promi&s;ed; <HI>I giue vnto them eternall life, and they &s;hall never peri&s;h, neither &s;hall any plucke them out of my hand:</HI> and as tho&s;e everla&s;ting promi&s;es of ble&s;&s;ednes and happines belong to the invi&s;ible and my&s;ticall Church; even &s;o when we reade in &s;cripture on the other &s;ide, of any duty that the Church is bound vnto; the Church whom this doth con|cerne, is a &s;encible knowne company, which is the vi&s;ible Church and the parts thereof: vpon the con&s;ideration, as ma|turately as I could of this opinion, that the Church vi&s;ible cannot erre in doctrine, I did rub vp and &s;earch into my me|mory what I had learned of our Church, which I will de|clare vnto you: I proue not my &s;elfe to be learned, for if I did, I &s;hould but arrogate vnto my &s;elfe that which I am not, &s;ee|ing I haue not beene brought vp in &s;chooles of learning, but I giue the prai&s;e and glory to God the fountaine of all good, <HI>from whom every good and perfect gift doth proceede:</HI> and next to tho&s;e worthy in&s;truments of his, whereby I haue beene taught: and now I will adre&s;&s;e my &s;elfe a little to &s;peake to my private Chri&s;tian brethren, who are a little more learned then the re&s;t, be they either of our Nation or others which proues your Religion: that &s;omething they may be edified, if this our conference come to their hands, either by your re|port or otherwi&s;e.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You haue made a flouri&s;hing preamble to your learning, I pray let me heare it.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Surely what&s;oever good I haue, or what&s;oever good I haue learned, I de&s;ire to returne the glory and prai&s;e thereof, to that Centor and Fountaine of good and wi&s;edome from whence it flowed vnto me: and I thinke I cannot glorifie God better in common Chri&s;tian charitie, then to &s;pend my be&s;t meditations and endevours to bring into the way of truth
<PB N="55" REF="35"> tho&s;e poore &s;educed &s;oules of your religion, who by rea&s;on of their blind ignorance, are led by their &s;educing guides, ra|ther to the pit of everla&s;ting de&s;truction, then to Ie&s;us Chri&s;t the fountaine of their everla&s;ting &s;alvation.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well proceede what more haue you to &s;ay.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>This I &s;ay, that I doe marvaile that any truely learned man either in the word or workes of God, will be a Papi&s;t and of your religion, for that many partes of their doctrine, are again&s;t the doctrine reveiled to the world, by the word and workes of God: the Church is as you know, called a body, and this I would haue you to learne, that all bodies what&s;oeuer con&s;i&s;t of two parts, which are the matter and forme: Let vs a little con&s;ider, fir&s;t, the great bodie of the earth, and the fir&s;t creation thereof, it is &s;ayd in the fir&s;t of <HI>Gene.</HI> and the fir&s;t ver&s;e, <HI>that in the beginning,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 1.1.</NOTE> <HI>God created the heaven and the earth, and the earth was without forme and voide:</HI> now it is not &s;ayd that the heaven was without forme and void, for God made that perfect in the fir&s;t moment of time, which it &s;hall be ever after: now the earth was not perfect at the fir&s;t moment of time, becau&s;e it was without forme and voide.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What was it to be without forme and voide?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were to be without forme, is to want the e&s;&s;entiall con&s;titution of a body, and al&s;o to want a reall di&s;tinction of a body, the truth is, it was no body really and actually, for all bodies reall, doe bring forth &s;omething, and produce &s;omething, but the earth which was the fir&s;t matter of all things, being &s;ometime without forme, did produce &amp; bring forth nothing: therefore really and actually it was no per|fect body, the very lea&s;t body that almo&s;t we can &s;ee, that is a reall and actuall bodie, whether it be a naturall, a vegetatiue, or &s;en&s;itiue body, even by the naturall induement, as by a law which God hath put in it, will produce &s;ome effect, whereby man for knowledge, or for v&s;e may be bettered &s;omewhat.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But what manner of body or thing, or what manner of being had this fir&s;t matter of all things, &s;eeing it was of it &s;elfe really and
<PB N="56" REF="36"> actually nothing?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were with the learned, it was &s;omething potenti|ally, but nothing actually, it was in power to be all things, it &s;elfe being as yet nothing really or di&s;tinctly.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Can you tell how long this fir&s;t matter of all things did re|maine without forme and voide?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I take it that it did remaine &s;o 12 houres, for <HI>darkenes was vpon the deepe,</HI> which ver&s;e 5. is called night, and this night was the fir&s;t part of the fir&s;t 24 houres, and this I &s;ay, I thinke may be coniectured by that place; now I &s;ay againe that every creature is that which they are, they are it by their formes: God onely is without matter and forme, and there|fore he is merely and only mo&s;t &s;pirituall, take away the forme of any creature, and you take away their very e&s;&s;ence &amp; being, for the forme is it that &s;u&s;taines them, and makes them ope|rate and worke according to the &s;everall agen&s;ies of their nature, for the producing of effects; the maine end of their operations and effects,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Prov. 16.4. Ephe. 1.6.</NOTE> is the glory of God, <HI>for God made all things for his owne &s;ake:</HI> be&s;ides there are &s;peciall ends for the good of other of Gods creatures, but their more &s;peciall ends of their operations and effects, are for the good of Gods chil|dren, who in Chri&s;t haue by Gods mercy the dominion of the creatures re&s;tored, which they lo&s;t by &s;inne.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>If the forme doth cheri&s;h and &s;u&s;taine the creature, then what did &s;u&s;taine and cheri&s;h the fir&s;t matter of all things, it being with out all forme?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It was pre&s;erved at that time by the &s;pirit that moved vpon it, which in &s;tead of a forme, did cheri&s;h and &s;u&s;taine it as a Henne doth her egges.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But are you able to &s;hew how God did put this voyde</HI> Chaos <HI>the fir&s;t matter of all things into forme, and how he did make all things out of this fir&s;t matter being formed?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were that it is not for the feeble braine of man to &s;earch into the &s;ecret doings of the mo&s;t High, for that were gro&s;&s;e curio&s;itie: yet I will &s;hew you, what I haue learned of a learned wri<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">er of ours, that this fir&s;t matter being the com|mon &s;ubiect of contrary formes, it mu&s;t needes be before
<PB N="57" REF="36"> them. <HI>Gen.</HI> 1.2. it is &s;aid <HI>to be without forme,</HI> vntill God put in|to it the 4 formes of the elements. Now this fir&s;t matter of all things did fill the lower world, and therefore it is probable that the highe&s;t part of this fir&s;t matter did receiue the forme of fire, the &s;econd of ayre, the third the forme of water, and the la&s;t the forme of earth, <HI>Gen.</HI> 1.3. fir&s;t light, then firmament, ver&s;. 6. afterwards water, ver&s;. 9. and la&s;tly, dry land, the &s;ame ver&s;e. And thus God by his Word did make the elements out of the fir&s;t matter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Can you &s;hew me what difference there is in the formes of the elements?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The 4 elements may be divided into 2. parts, the higher, and hotter, but the fire hath the mo&s;t actiue &amp; working forme, &s;o that it is mo&s;t hot and light, therefore in the highe&s;t roome. The ayre hath warmene&s;&s;e and is actiue: the&s;e two elements make the &s;econd and fir&s;t heaven, and are &s;tiled by the holy Gho&s;t, <HI>Light and the firmament.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is the &s;econd part you haue divided the elements into?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The &s;econd part is the water and earth, which make one round globe in the inferiour world; the&s;e were more colder, and therefore le&s;&s;e actiue; the water God made mo&s;t cold and moi&s;t, and the earth God made cold and dry. And thus I haue &s;hewed you that God made the fir&s;t matter of all things with|out forme, and then that he did put forme into it, and then by the power of his Word made the elements and their formes, by producing them out of the fir&s;t matter after he had formed it. The&s;e things none can know but by Divinitie; for no hu|mane arts can teach a man that the fir&s;t matter of all things was made of nothing, and that the fir&s;t matter of all things had a beeing before the&s;e formes were put into it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And how were all other creatures made and created?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The other creatures are called <HI>Elementaries,</HI> becau&s;e they were made of the foure elements. If you aske how they were made, I an&s;were, that God made them by a mixture of the ele|ments, which alters their extremities and bringeth them into a temper, which you may thus conceiue: Fir&s;t water, being of a running nature is &s;tayd by the drine&s;&s;e of the earth, &s;econdly,
<PB N="58" REF="37"> the earth being dry in the highe&s;t degree, would dry vp and de&s;troy the moy&s;ture of the water, if the ayre &s;hould not put into &s;uccour his next neighbour. Thirdly, the coldne&s;&s;e of the water and earth would wholy extingui&s;h the heate of the ayre, if the fire &s;hould not &s;uccour him. All the&s;e thus meeting to|gether, doe &s;leken one anothers forces, by meanes whereof the elementary creatures &s;pring out. <HI>Gen.</HI> 1. <HI>let the earth bring forth.</HI> This had beene vnpo&s;&s;ible without heate and moy&s;ture, and therefore the other elements joyned with the earth in the pro|duction. This I &s;ay not to binde Gods power to meanes, for God could haue made the fir&s;t matter to bring forth creatures when it was without forme, as well as when he made it at the fir&s;t of nothing,</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what doth all this concerne the vi&s;ible Church, which is the thing our Conference principally intendeth?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>This is the drift of that I haue &s;poken, to bring you the better to know what the Church is, and whereof it doth con|&s;i&s;t; for as I haue &s;aid and proued, that all naturall bodies con|&s;i&s;t in the matter and forme: &s;o I &s;ay, all Societies and Corpo|rations of men either in the Church or Common-wealth, con|&s;i&s;t al&s;o of matter and forme. If a new Corporation in particu|lar be erected in the Common-wealth by the con&s;ent of the King, tho&s;e that &s;eeke to be incorporated in that Societie, doe propo&s;e &s;ome lawes and rules to bind them in that a&s;&s;ociation, which being agreed vpon, and their Charter granted, then are they a complete bodie. Now what is the matter, and what is the forme of this body? The matter is the men that be mem|bers of this Corporation, and the forme is the lawes and rules in which they are bound in obedience to that Societie; now the lawes is the life and being of any Societie, which lawes be|ing wholy abrogated, the Societie is di&s;&s;olved: but if any part of the lawes be changed by being in part repealed or augmen|ted by further ediction, then the Societie doth not di&s;&s;olue till they all wholy be abrogated; even as when any naturall agent doth by corruption begin to loo&s;e the forme, it remaines &s;till a body naturall till the forme be wholy evtingui&s;hed by corrup|tion, and then it remaines no more a body but returnes to the
<PB N="59" REF="37"> fir&s;t principles whereof it was compo&s;ed.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, what is the matter and forme of the Church vi&s;ible on earth?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer, that the matter of the Church is the &s;oules and bodies of men, which are rea&s;onable and voluntary agents; for no creatures can be of this body and &s;ocietie, but &s;uch as haue rea&s;on and will: and the forme of it is the lawes and doctrine of &s;alvation reveiled in the Word of God: but this is the diffe|rence between the lawes of the Church, and the lawes of civill Societies, that the lawes of the Church, I meane tho&s;e divine lawes in which they are principally bound in this &s;ocietie are perfect, and will admit no change, either by vtter abrogation, or by part repealing, or augmentation, or by further edition: but the lawes of men doe admit change, becau&s;e what&s;oever proceedeth from them is imperfect: and I &s;ay al&s;o lawes eccle|&s;ia&s;ticall which are made for &s;eemely order for the admini&s;tra|tion of tho&s;e divine lawes, may admit change, becau&s;e they are made by imperfect men: but for divine lawes, they are imme|diately reveiled from God, who hath intru&s;ted the Church with them, not to augment them with further addition, or in part to repeale them (as the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> like an vnfaith|full &s;teward doth by her wicked traditions) but to &s;pread them, Preach them, and explicate them, for the gathering the faith|full together vnder the protection of Chri&s;t, the onely foun|taine of their &s;alvation: the&s;e lawes are e&s;&s;entiall to the vi&s;ible Church, and the very forme and life of the Church; if they be taken away, the Church loo&s;eth the very life of it, &amp; the mem|bers thereof returne to their fir&s;t principles, which is either <HI>Turkes,</HI> or <HI>Iewes,</HI> or <HI>Heathens,</HI> or <HI>Infidells,</HI> and therefore I mar|vell the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> &s;hould deny the outward profe&s;&s;ion of the&s;e lawes to be a marke of the vi&s;ible Church. If a man &s;ee a hor&s;e in the high way that hath life in him, they will &s;ay, he is a hor&s;e, but if he haue no life in him, they will &s;ay, he was a hor&s;e, they will not &s;ay, he is a hor&s;e: Can they di&s;cerne the life of a bea&s;t, and are they &s;o ignorantly &s;otti&s;h that they can|not di&s;cerne the life of a vi&s;ible Church, when it hath life in it: the&s;e lawes of God are the Word of life, and worke &s;ome
<PB N="60" REF="38"> kind of life in the generall multitude by a temporary faith, by which they joyne in communion in the outward wor&s;hip of the true &s;ervice of God, but not to &s;erue him in &s;pirit &amp; truth: but this Word and law of God is a word of eternall life to them that wor&s;hip God in &s;pirit and in truth; for the holy Gho&s;t &s;aith; <HI>Many are called, but few are cho&s;en.</HI> And our Saviour &s;aith; <HI>Feare not little flocke, it is your Fathers plea&s;ure to giue you a kingdome.</HI> And the Prophet <HI>I&s;aiah</HI> &s;aith; that <HI>if the children of I&s;raell were in number as the &s;and of the Sea, yet &s;hall but a remnant be &s;aved.</HI> To the&s;e cho&s;en ones, this little flocke, to this poore remnant, the Word is a &s;avour of life vnto life. The&s;e are they that wor&s;hip <HI>God in &s;pirit and in truth,</HI> and in the&s;e is there a true &s;aving faith wrought. And this I &s;ay againe, that this mu&s;t needs be the infallible marke by which the vi&s;ible Church is, and may be knowne. What if there be &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of men to teach; what if there be antiquitie in &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, and the cere|mony of ordination; what if there be vnitie, and vniver&s;alitie, all the&s;e be but acce&s;&s;aries, one thing is nece&s;&s;ary, namely, the heavenly word and doctrine: all the&s;e acce&s;&s;aries when they are propo&s;ed to be markes of a vi&s;ible Church, they may blind the eyes of ignorance, but men of wi&s;edome will &s;earch the life of the Church, whether that be in it or no, and if that be not wanting, then they will admit of tho&s;e markes which your Church &s;aith are markes, but if the Word, Sacraments, and doctrine, which be infallible markes be wanting, then are your markes &s;nares to catch fooles, or flaps to &s;care flies. If a man lay in his bed dead, though he had acce&s;&s;aries to his life, about him, as a good fire to warme him, good apparell to cloth him, good meate to feed him, a good hou&s;e to harbour him, yet all the&s;e would not &s;hew him to be a living man, nor would I beleeue him &s;o to be, though all the world &s;hould tell me that he is, if I &s;ee not his life in him; no more can I beleeue a Church to be a Church, but by the life of doc|trine.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well Seniour</HI> George, <HI>you haue di&s;cour&s;ed vnto me of Gods mighty creation of all things, and that all bodies con&s;i&s;t of their matter and forme, but you haue not &s;poken of man and his creati|on.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="61" REF="38">
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I remember wi&s;e <HI>Salomon</HI> in his Proverbes, hath this &s;aying (namely) wi&s;edome is good with an inheritance, vp|on this &s;aying, I con&s;ider how naturally all men doe &s;eeke for worldly inheritances, but how few there be that &s;eeke for wi&s;edome to inioy it, and to imploy it to the glory of God in the releiving their poore needie Chri&s;tian brethren, true it is, all my life long the Lord hath hitherto in mercy trained mee vp in his &s;choole of wi&s;edome, which he hath erected in this our Kingdome of Great Brittaine, and I can not but be|waile my great neglect, in that I haue not beene made more wi&s;e vnto &s;alvation, but what the Lord hath taught mee in this his &s;choole of wi&s;edome, I de&s;ire to impart it vnto you for your edification: Now fir&s;t I &s;ay that one principall part of this wi&s;edome, is to know rightly a mans owne &s;elfe, which if he rightly know, he &s;hall the better learne to know God his Creator, and Chri&s;t his Redeemer, whom rightly to know is eternall life.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I thinke you &s;ay true, well now you haue done with your pre|amble, I pray you proceede how did God make man.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I will if God plea&s;e begin with mans Creation, then next with his corruption, wherein I will &s;hew al&s;o the corruption of all creatures, as a con&s;equence of his fall, and &s;o intreat of the corruption and errour of the vi&s;ible Chuch, and therein I will &s;hew that one Church is more corrupt then an other in the parts thereof, and la&s;tly, I will &s;hew the de&s;truction of all, as con&s;equent of corruption.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Come begin your &s;peech of the Creation of man.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Our mighty GOD after he had created the heaven and all the Angels, as al&s;o the earth and all the creatures, then he procceded to make man; whom he made Lord of all the workes of his hands in this lower world.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But I pray you let me aske you a que&s;tion before you pro|ceede any further, what is the e&s;&s;ence of man, and what is his mat|ter and forme, for you &s;ayd that all bodies con&s;i&s;t of matter and forme?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I did &s;o, and it is mo&s;t true that I &s;ayd, and therefore I an&s;were you, that the matter is the body which is compo|&s;ed
<PB N="62" REF="39"> of the elements, yet the forme of the elements, is not the forme of man (as they are of other elementary creatures) but the &s;oule is the forme of man, as the forme of the elements is in other creatures.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Goe on I am &s;atisfied.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;ay God created man a rea&s;onable creature, and vo|luntary agent, con&s;i&s;ting of a body and a &s;oule, which &s;oule is immortall; now God by his word commanded the earth and waters to bring forth other creatures, but when he made man; he &s;ayd, let vs, as if he &s;hould haue &s;ayd, man is a more honourable creature, then all the creatures we haue made in all the world, and therefore let vs; the Father, the Word, and the Spirit, be advi&s;ed as by coun&s;ell, of his creation, man is as it were a little world: for what&s;oever is in other crea|tures in the world, is in man, be it in naturall agents, or ve|getatiue, or &s;en&s;itiue, nay of intelectuall &s;pirits, as Angels, for &s;o is man in re&s;pect of his &s;oule.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How did God create man?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were in his owne Image and likenes, <HI>God &s;ayd let vs make man in our Image, and according to our likenes,</HI> it is &s;o called,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 1.26. Colo. 3.10.</NOTE> becau&s;e he was &s;o furni&s;hed in every point by God, not onely in his frame and perfection of his &s;oule and body: but al&s;o, by his actions and governement of the creatures: <HI>Gen.</HI> 1.26. <HI>Let them rule-over the bea&s;ts, and fi&s;he<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">, and fowles,</HI> &amp; &s;o forth. This Image and &s;imilitude, was that abilitie to &s;hew forth the wi&s;edome, holines, and righteou&s;nes of God, which did ri&s;e from the perfection of his e&s;tate, both inward, and in the forme of his body and &s;oule, and outwardly in command over other things, &s;o that there could be no let any where, for the performance of his acts, in all obedience whereunto hee was made.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But wherein doth the Image of God con&s;i&s;t?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were it doth con&s;i&s;t in two things, fir&s;t in confor|mitie of him to Gods righteou&s;nes and holines, as it appea|reth in <HI>Paul</HI> to the Ephe&s;ians: <HI>Put on the new man, which af|ter God,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 4.2.4. Gen. 1.2.</NOTE> <HI>is created vnto righteou&s;nes and true holines,</HI> and &s;econd|ly, in his rule over the creatures: by his conformitie with
<PB N="63" REF="39"> God, we are to vnder&s;tand, that whereby he was made fit both in body and &s;oule to glorifie God, in v&s;ing all faculties and members as in&s;truments of true righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e and holine&s;&s;e. <HI>Rom.</HI> 12.1. &amp; 1 <HI>The&s;.</HI> 5.23. 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 6.20. in all the&s;e places ho|line&s;&s;e and righteou&s;nes is equally required both of body and &s;oule.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How was mans body made?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It was compo&s;ed and made of the fine&s;t and pure&s;t du&s;t of the earth, and the re&s;t of the elements,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 2.7.</NOTE> God prepared it with in&s;truments mo&s;t fitting for the accompli&s;hment of his dutie, and comely for his place; this body being made of principles foregoing, was in po&s;&s;ibilitie &s;ubject to corruption and de&s;tru|ction, and to returne into its former principles. <HI>David</HI> &s;aith;<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 139.14.</NOTE> <HI>I will pray&s;e thee, for I am fearefully and wonderfully made,</HI> in re|gard of &s;o innumerable and exqui&s;ite in&s;truments for v&s;e,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 6.13.</NOTE> <HI>for the members thereof were weapons of righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e;</HI> and for beau|tie mo&s;t comely; <HI>for they were naked and not a&s;hamed.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 2 25.</NOTE> And &s;aith <HI>David; Lord thou ha&s;t crowned him with wor&s;hip and glory.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 8.5.</NOTE></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And how was his &s;oule created?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It was created immediately of nothing, and not of princi|ples foregoing, as the body was, and for this cau&s;e it never dy|eth: the manner was that in creating it &s;hould be infu&s;ed, and in infu&s;ing it &s;hould be created; for God did not create our &s;oules in heaven, and &s;o breath them into our bodies, but in|wardly in framing our bodies in breathed our &s;oules; hence it is called the breath of life. And for the excellency thereof God giues man the whole divination of a living &s;oule.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 2.7.</NOTE></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What are the faculties with which the &s;oule of man was indu|ed when God immediately created and infu&s;ed it.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, his &s;oule was indued with mo&s;t rare and excel|lent faculties, whereof &s;ome worke in and vpon the body by elementary &s;pirits; and others immediately by their owne for|ces. Marke the Text, and you &s;hall perceiue this to be true, God &s;aid to them <HI>bring forth fruit and multiple, and fill the earth,</HI> this is to be vnder&s;tood of the inferiour faculties: <HI>&s;ubdue the earth, and rule over the fi&s;h of the Sea, and over the fowle of hea|ven, and over every bea&s;t that moveth vpon the earth,</HI> this is to be
<PB N="64" REF="40"> vnder&s;tood of the &s;uperiour faculties of the &s;oule, which are the more excellent: the inferiour faculties may be &s;ubdued by ele|mentary force, which if they could not, then the body &s;hould never die no more then the &s;oule, but we &s;ee by daily experi|ence that they may be &s;ubdued, becau&s;e we &s;ee men doe daily die; but the &s;uperiour faculties doth &s;ubdue all creatures, and them&s;elues are not &s;ubject to be &s;ubdued.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>No, are not rea&s;on and will to be &s;ubdued? how commeth it to pa&s;&s;e, that rea&s;on is &s;ubdued by rea&s;on and force of argument?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;ay that mans rea&s;on and will hath no power to com|mand them, but God alone, and if rea&s;on be &s;ubdued of rea&s;on, it is by arguments drawne from the Word of God, &s;o that it is God by his Word that doth &s;ubdue rea&s;on: they are no better then brute bea&s;ts that bury the&s;e two noble faculties of the &s;oule, and &s;uffer them&s;elues to be ruled by their inferiour fa|culties, and tho&s;e inferiour to be ruled of bruti&s;h natures: blind the mind, and turne the will, and then meere &s;ence will rule vs.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How doth the inferiour faculties of the &s;oule worke vpon the body, and is the forme and life of the body?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that the &s;oule doth worke in and vpon the bo|dy by meanes of the &s;pirits that are ingendered of the more for|mall elements, whereof the body was compo&s;ed; and the&s;e &s;pi|rits are as it were the middle betwixt the body and the &s;oule, and therefore conjoyne them together. Hence it appeareth that man might die by the extinction of tho&s;e &s;pirits, and yet Gods ble&s;&s;ing and whole&s;ome foode might &s;o cheri&s;h and re|leiue them, that man might haue beene immortall. We &s;ee that naturall death is the decay of this bond, &amp; our be&s;t health is in the pre&s;ervation of it. Thus you may perceiue that the elementary &s;pirits are not the life of man, but they are the &s;eate of life, and the in&s;truments of the &s;oule, whereby life is wrought in the body, and if the&s;e &s;pirits be decayed by cor|ruption, then the body dieth, and the &s;oule goeth to God that gaue it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Is there any divi&s;ion or di&s;tinction of the&s;e &s;pirits which con|ioyne the &s;oule and the body together?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="65" REF="40">
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Yes, for they are either naturall, or they are animall.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what doth the &s;oule worke by the naturall &s;pirits in the body?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The&s;e naturall &s;pirits &s;erue for generation, and for aug|mentation, or growth and nutrition.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what the animall &s;pirits?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, they &s;erue for &s;ence, motion, and affection; it is lamentable to thinke, how man abu&s;eth him&s;elfe in all the&s;e &s;ince the fall.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I pray you di&s;cour&s;e further of the&s;e &s;uperiour powers, and most excellent faculties of the &s;oule, rea&s;on and will and how they doe worke?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Adam</HI> in the perfection of his nature being made after the likene&s;&s;e of his Maker, re&s;embleth him al&s;o in the manner of his working, to that what&s;oever he might haue done, the &s;ame he might haue wrought both wittingly and freely; and this was by tho&s;e powers of his &s;oule, rea&s;on and will, whereby he might be a free beginner, that is, a cau&s;e by deliberate coun&s;ell of his acts. <HI>Adam</HI> might eate freely of every tree, yea, of the forbidden tree, if he would die for it: (which he did to the lo&s;&s;e of the &s;alvation of him and his po&s;teritie) but in Chri&s;t, the Lord in mercy hath recovered it againe, &s;o that <HI>Adam</HI> was made at the fir&s;t with free-will, for there was nothing either in his &s;oule or body, that might hinder him from the perfor|mance of his act.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I pray you al&s;o &s;hew me further his dominion and Lord&s;hip over the creatures, and wherein this Lord&s;hip doth con&s;i&s;t?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>For his Lord&s;hip and dominion, read the 8. <HI>P&s;alme,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 1.26. P&s;al. 8.6.</NOTE> ver&s;e the 6. <HI>Thou ha&s;t made him to haue dominion in the workes of thine hands; thou ha&s;t put all things vnder his feete.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And wherein doth this dominion con&s;i&s;t?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, it doth con&s;i&s;t in a mo&s;t free v&s;e of all things for the glory of God, his owne nece&s;&s;itie, and lawfull delight; and that, without all let or hinderance of any of his actions; and therefore if he offended in the intemperate v&s;e of any of the creatures, it was his owne fault; God &s;aid to <HI>Adam,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 3.11.</NOTE> <HI>who told thee that thou wa&s;t naked, ha&s;t thou eaten of the tree whereof I
<PB N="66" REF="41"> told thee thou &s;hould&s;t not eate?</HI> Hence God &s;heweth plainely, he was guiltie of his owne wicked action; and therefore he &s;inned mo&s;t freely. Now fir&s;t God gaue <HI>Adam</HI> for him&s;elfe, and the bea&s;ts, meate from the plants and hearbes, as likewi&s;e the dre&s;&s;ing of them. <HI>Gen.</HI> 1.29.30. Secondly, the bring|ing <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">he creatures to <HI>Adam,</HI> to &s;ee how he would call them. Thirdly, God placed him in the garden of <HI>Eden,</HI> as in a &s;tately pallace planted of God at the Ea&s;t &s;ide, which he repleni&s;hed with all manner of plants both for plea&s;ure and nece&s;&s;itie: and thus God did, to the end that man being appointed by God vnder him, as Lord Deputie over all his creatures, he might there keepe his Court, and that he might haue matter of im|ployment,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 2.15.</NOTE> God appointed him <HI>to keepe and till the ground.</HI> I might haue further inlarged my di&s;cour&s;e of the Creation, but this &s;hall &s;uffice for avoiding of tediou&s;ne&s;&s;e.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now God having ended his worke of Creation, by giving the creatures a being, and a law of operation by their matter and forme, doth he &s;o leaue them?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>No; He hath not onely created them, but he al&s;o pre&s;er|veth them, and continueth them being in their e&s;&s;ences, and forces of operations, both vniver&s;all and &s;ingular, and by his providence provideth for them to the lea&s;t circum&s;tance:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 10.29.</NOTE> <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 104.24. <HI>in wi&s;edome ha&s;t thou made them all,</HI> and therefore by the &s;ame Wi&s;edome doth he provide for them, ver&s;e 27. they all waite vpon him, and <HI>he giveth them foode in due &s;ea&s;on:</HI> all, both creation, pre&s;ervation, and admini&s;tration, are a&s;cri|bed to the wi&s;edome, power, and goodne&s;&s;e, and mercy of God. In the 104. <HI>P&s;alme,</HI> from 2. ver&s;e to the 10. of Gods creation, from the 10. to the 27. of Gods admini&s;tration, and from thence, of his pre&s;ervation. And thus in briefe of Gods creation and providence.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now I pray you proceede, and let me according to your promi&s;e heare your iudgement and reading of mans fall and corruption.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>This I &s;ay fir&s;t, that though <HI>Adam</HI> was made in the like|ne&s;&s;e and Image of his Maker, which &s;tood in holine&s;&s;e and righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e, and in the dominion and rule over the crea|tures, yet this perfection was not immutable, but might be
<PB N="67" REF="41"> changeable by force of temptation, as the event did declare. Now <HI>Adam</HI> having free will, lo&s;t the puritie of his created na|ture, him&s;elfe being a cau&s;e, by his free receiving the temptati|on, and harkening therevnto, contrary to the Commandement of God, when he might haue re&s;i&s;ted the &s;ame: the Comman|dement was this; <HI>And the Lord God commanded the man,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 2.16.17.</NOTE> <HI>&s;ay|ing, thou &s;halt eate freely of every tree of the garden:</HI> Then follow|eth the prohibition; <HI>but of the tree of knowledge of good and evill, thou &s;halt not eate of it:</HI> and the cur&s;e that &s;hould follow his ea|ting <HI>for in the day that thou eate&s;t thereof, thou &s;halt die the death.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How was Adams fall effected?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The principall cau&s;es, was the Devill, and <HI>Adams</HI> yeel|ding to the temptation.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what were the in&s;trumentall cau&s;es?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The Serpent and the Woman: the Devill in the Serpent &s;aid to the Woman, <HI>Gen.</HI> 3.1. Yea hath God indeede &s;aid, <HI>yee &s;hall not eate of every tree of the garden, &amp;c. but God knoweth that when you &s;hall eate thereof, you &s;hall be as Gods, knowing both good and evill.</HI> Hence our fir&s;t parents judged the Law their hinde|rance, and to keepe them from an ine&s;timable good, tooke and did eate the forbidden fruit; the Serpent was an In&s;tru|ment thus: The Devill abu&s;ing the Serpents &s;ubtiltie, v&s;ed him as a meanes of &s;educing the Woman: the Woman was an in&s;trument, as being &s;educed of the Devill by the Serpent; <HI>The Serpent beguiled Eue through his &s;ubtiltie.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Cor. 11.3.</NOTE></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What are the effects of Adams fall?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, the effects are three; 1. blame, 2. guilt, 3. pu|ni&s;hment, <HI>Rom.</HI> 5.12. <HI>By one man &s;inne entered into the world, and death by &s;inne, and &s;o death went over all men, fora&s;much as all men haue &s;inned.</HI> All men &s;inned in regard of blame: death en|tered in regard of guilt: and death went over all as a puni&s;h|ment.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is meant by blame, by guilt, and by puni&s;hment?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Blame is Gods ju&s;t cen&s;ure of &s;inne. <HI>Gen.</HI> 3.14. <HI>Becau&s;e thou ha&s;t done this, thou art accur&s;t.</HI> Sinne cen&s;ured, is blame worthy, and guilt is, whereby they are tyed to vndergoe the
<PB N="68" REF="42"> puni&s;hment. <HI>Gen.</HI> 2.17. <HI>in the day thou eate&s;t thereof thou &s;halt die the death;</HI> and the puni&s;hment is the ju&s;t anger of God vp|on them. <HI>Rom.</HI> 2.5. <HI>By hardne&s;&s;e of heart thou heape&s;t vpon thy &s;elfe wrath again&s;t the day of wrath, and of the declaration, &amp;c.</HI> Ver&s;e. 8.9. <HI>Iudgement and wrath, tribulation and angui&s;h, &s;hall be vpon every one that doth evill.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How doth God &s;hew him&s;elfe glorious in Adams apo&s;ta&s;ie, and in him the fall of all men?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It doth appeare vnto vs that he doth glorifie him&s;elfe in 3 attributes, that is to &s;ay, his holines, his ju&s;tice, and his mercy.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>De&s;cribe to me his holine&s;&s;e.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>His holine&s;&s;e is whereby he being pure and free from all &s;inne, cannot away with any &s;inne. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 5.4. <HI>Thou art a God that love&s;t no iniquitie, neither &s;hall any evill dwell with thee.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is his Iu&s;tice?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>His ju&s;tice is, whereby he being mo&s;t ju&s;t in him&s;elfe, cannot but execute ju&s;tice: as in well doing to them that doe well, &s;o in inflicting puni&s;hment on them that doe evill. <HI>Rom.</HI> 2.6.7.8.9.10.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 2 5.6.7.8.9.10.</NOTE> Gods ju&s;t judgement is <HI>to reward every man according to his workes; to them that continue in well-doing, glory, honour, immortalitie, peace, and eternall life:</HI> but to the re&s;t, <HI>indignation, wrath, tribulation, and angui&s;h.</HI> It is called, as it &s;eemes to burne more remi&s;ly again&s;t &s;inne, <HI>anger:</HI> as more &s;harpely, <HI>wrath:</HI> and as God doth giue &s;entence, it is called <HI>Iudgement,</HI> and executing the &s;ame, <HI>Revenge: Rom.</HI> 2.8. <HI>Anger and wrath,</HI> ver&s;e the 5. <HI>Iu&s;t Iudgement:</HI> 2 The&s;&s;. 1.8. <HI>In flaming fire to ren|der vengeance:</HI> God mu&s;t needs hate &s;inne, and in his ju&s;tice pu|ni&s;h it, becau&s;e it doth oppo&s;e the ju&s;tice of God, which is God him&s;elfe; and we &s;ee in nature, how mainly every thing doth fight again&s;t that, w^c^h doth oppo&s;e &amp; indevour to overthrow the being of another; as fire to oppo&s;e water, and water fire.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is his mercy?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>His mercy is whereby he v&s;eth compa&s;&s;ion al&s;o towards his creatures offending. Gen. 6.3.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 6.3.</NOTE> <HI>My &s;pirit &s;hall not alwayes &s;triue with man, becau&s;e he is but fle&s;h.</HI> Gen 8.21. <HI>I will hence|forth cur&s;e the ground no more for mans cau&s;e, for the imaginations of his heart, are evill even from his youth:</HI> P&s;al. 78.38.39. <HI>He forgaue their iniquities, called backe his anger, did not &s;tir vp all his wrath, for he remembred they were but fle&s;h, a winde pa&s;&s;ing and
<PB N="69" REF="42"> commeth not againe;</HI> fir&s;t therefore Gods mercie appeares in this, that he did never for&s;ake any man, till he fir&s;t for&s;ooke God, as appeareth in the examples of <HI>Caine, Saul, Achitophel</HI> and <HI>Iudas:</HI> &s;econdly, never any &s;ought for mercy, but found it, were his &s;innes never &s;o grievous, and many that &s;ought it not, yet haue found it; as the woman of <HI>Samaria,</HI> the wid|dow of <HI>Naim,</HI> and the &s;icke man at the Poole, of <HI>Bethe&s;da.</HI> Thirdly, God was much more di&s;plea&s;ed with <HI>Caine,</HI> for de&s;|pairing of his mercy, then for murthering his brother; and with <HI>Iudas</HI> for hanging him&s;elfe, then for betraying his ma&s;ter, in that they would make the &s;innes of mortall men, greater then the infinite mercy of the eternall God, or as if they could be more &s;infull then God is mercifull.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Of what kinds are his mercy?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>There be two kinds of his mercy, the one is his bounti|fulnes, the other is his gentlenes, <HI>Rom.</HI> 2.4. <HI>de&s;pi&s;e&s;t thou the riches of his bountifullnes patience and long &s;uffering.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is his gentlenes?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>His gentlenes, is whereby he in his Iu&s;tice remembreth mercy, <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 103.8.9. <HI>The Lord is full of compa&s;&s;ion and mercy, flow to anger, and of great kindnes, he will not alwayes chide, nei|ther keepe his anger for ever;</HI> this doth appeare in his patience and long &s;uffering. <HI>Rom.</HI> 2.4.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is his patience?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>His patience is, wherby he mo&s;t gently &s;uffereth &s;inners, and deferreth puni&s;hment. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 50.21. <HI>the&s;e things thou did&s;t, and I held my tongue:</HI> that is patiently &s;uffering thy &s;innes for a time to goe vnpuni&s;hed.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is his long &s;uffering?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>His long &s;ufferance is, whereby he long expecteth re|repentance, <HI>Lament.</HI> 3.22. <HI>It is the Lords mercy, that wee are not con&s;umed, becau&s;e his compa&s;&s;ions faile not:</HI> Eccle. 8.11. <HI>Be|cau&s;e &s;entence is not executed &s;peedi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">y: therefore men are fully &s;et to doe evill:</HI> when on the contrary, they ought to be moved to for&s;ake their &s;innes, <HI>Rom.</HI> 2.4.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is his bountifulnes?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>His bountifulnes is, whereby he being rich in goodnes, poureth forth his good gifts vpon his &s;infull creatures not|with&s;tanding
<PB N="70" REF="43"> their &s;innes, <HI>Mat.</HI> 5.45. <HI>Your heauenly Father maketh his Sunne to ari&s;e on the evill, and on the good: and &s;end|eth raine on the iu&s;t, and vniu&s;t.</HI> Thus farre I haue &s;hewed you, that the very fall of <HI>Adam.</HI> God ordered it to his owne glo|ry: fir&s;t of his holines, which being mo&s;t ab&s;olutely pure, and without the lea&s;t &s;taine of &s;inne, being oppo&s;ite to his ho|lines, could not but perfectly hate &s;inne &s;econdly, his iu&s;tice, which mu&s;t needes puni&s;h &s;inne: thirdly, his mercy, where|by he v&s;eth compa&s;&s;ion al&s;o towards his creatures offending.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now I pray you &s;hew me vpon whom the puni&s;hment was in|flicted?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The per&s;ons vpon whom the puni&s;hment was inflicted, was fir&s;t the Devill, next the Serpent, who&s;e &s;ubtiltie he v&s;ed for the deceiving the woman, and then the woman, whom being deceived,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 3.14.15.</NOTE> he v&s;ed as an in&s;trument to deceiue man.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What was the puni&s;hment inflicted vpon the Devill?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The puni&s;hment inflicted vpon the Devill, was fir&s;t the cru&s;hing of his head: that is the bringing to naught his wick|ed deui&s;e again&s;t man, and Gods coun&s;ell: by the &s;eede of the woman, that is, Chri&s;t, who&s;e heele he brui&s;ed, that is, his hu|miliation, <HI>Gen.</HI> 3.14. Secondly, the hardening of Satan and his a&s;&s;ociates in their &s;innes, that they cannot repent and find mercy, <HI>Gen.</HI> 3.15. <HI>I will put enmitie, betweene thy &s;eede and the womans:</HI> It is well knowne that ho&s;tility and enmitie doe ever increa&s;e hatred, and hatred of God impenitency, <HI>P&s;alme</HI> 50.17. <HI>Wicked and impenitent &s;inners hate to be reformed:</HI> The third puni&s;hment, is their bani&s;hment from heaven, into the elements; and re&s;ervation of them to Iudgement and hell fire, 2. <HI>Pet.</HI> 2.4. <HI>God &s;pared not the Angels that &s;inned, but ca&s;t them downe into hell, and delivered them into chaines of darkenes, to be kept vnto damnation,</HI> Iude ver&s;e 5. <HI>They are re&s;erved in everla&s;t|ing chaines vnder darkenes, vnto the iudgement of the great day.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what was the puni&s;hment vpon the In&s;truments?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were fir&s;t vpon the Serpent, a cur&s;e aboue all the bea&s;ts of the field, 2. Enmitie betwixt him and the woman, 3. A &s;en&s;ible feeling of paine in his going vpon his belly, 4. His eating of du&s;t.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="71" REF="43">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what was the puni&s;hment of the woman?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The puni&s;hment of the woman was fir&s;t her inforced &s;ubiection to her husband, 2.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 3.14.1<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"></NOTE> Her manifold griefes in con|ception and going with childe, and her paine in traveiling, the&s;e puni&s;hments &s;hee had, be&s;ides the puni&s;hments &s;he hath in common with man.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philp,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what are the puni&s;hments of man?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were that the puni&s;hment vpon <HI>Adam,</HI> and con&s;e|quently vpon all mankind, is &s;inne, and death. <HI>Rom.</HI> 5.12. <HI>as by one man &s;inne entered into the world, and death by &s;inne, and &s;o death went over all men, for as much as all men haue &s;inned.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I pray how can God inflict &s;inne as a puni&s;hment?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that it is as an effect of divine ju&s;tice by order of con&s;equence, that where &s;uch an offence went before, &s;uch an evill &s;hould follow, to make the partie feele the &s;mart of it: &s;o originall and actuall &s;inne follow <HI>Adams</HI> fir&s;t &s;inne, as ju&s;t|ly inflicted vpon <HI>Adam.</HI> The order is Gods, which makes it bitter and afflictiue to the &s;oule and con&s;cience. Originall &s;in followes the fir&s;t at the very heeles; and by it we feele won|derfull mi&s;ery. We &s;ee daily, how God puni&s;heth pride by en|vie: envie is not of God, but the order and afflictiue power is to be given to divine ju&s;tice. 2 of <HI>Sam.</HI> 16.10. <HI>Shimei</HI> his cur|&s;ing of <HI>David</HI> is imputed to Gods Commandement: not as out|wardly or inwardly filling his heart with malice, but at this time &s;ending it for <HI>Davids</HI> further humiliation. <HI>Iob.</HI> 1.21. <HI>Iob</HI> robbed by wicked men, confe&s;&s;ed God to be the taker, be|cau&s;e he knew, God ordered it for his tryall and patience. The <HI>Iewes</HI> crucifie Chri&s;t,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Acts. 2.25<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"></NOTE> and yet that was the determinate Coun&s;ell of God; &s;o then the order di&s;po&s;ing, that originall &s;inne &s;hall follow <HI>Adams</HI> tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion, and make it bitter vnto vs, is of God: I meane, as far as it is of the nature of puni&s;hment, it is of God: but when it comes to be con&s;idered &s;imply as a &s;inne, &s;o it is not of God, but of the creature, as was formerly declared.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What &s;innes doth God inflict as puni&s;hments?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The &s;innes inflicted are both originall and actuall; from this bitter roote of our fir&s;t tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion, &s;prang all our mi&s;e|ry,
<PB N="72" REF="44"> <HI>Rom</HI> 5.19. <HI>One mans di&s;obedience hath made many &s;inners,</HI> both originally and actually.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is originall &s;inne?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Originall &s;in is, as the learned &s;ay, an exorbitation or mi&s;|order of the whole man, both inward in him&s;elfe, and outward in the government of the creatures. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 51.5. <HI>I was borne in iniquitie.</HI> Rom. 7 24 <HI>a body of death.</HI> H<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">b. 12.1. <HI>a &s;in that han|geth &s;o fa&s;t on,</HI> a clo&s;ing &s;in, that compa&s;&s;eth vs about. <HI>Gen.</HI> 5.6. <HI>&amp;</HI> 8.21 <HI>the frame of mans heart is evill continually.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Hath not man free will?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>No; his rea&s;on and will are out of order and exorbitant, and ther<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">fore he hath no freedome of will to any good, that may be plea&s;ing to God, but wholly vnto evill. <HI>Ioh.</HI> 8.34.35.36. Servants of &s;inne mu&s;t be no freemen, but &s;uch are all, vn|till Chri&s;t re&s;tore them. <HI>Rom.</HI> 3.11. <HI>None that vnder&s;tandeth or &s;eeketh God.</HI> Ver&s;. 12. <HI>they are all gone out of the way, made alto|gether vnprofitable; not one that doth good, no not one:</HI> by nature we haue neither mind, will, nor endevour to ought that is good.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What is actuall &s;inne?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Actuall &s;inne is, the continuall jarring of man vpon out|ward objects, by rea&s;on of his naturall or originall mi&s;order; as for example, an In&s;trument out of tune, is di&s;&s;onant and vn|fitting in all harmony. <HI>Rom.</HI> 3.13.14.15.16.17.18. throte, tongue, feete, wayes, and all, are without the feare of the Lord. <HI>Rom.</HI> 1.29.30. full of vnrighteou&s;ne&s;&s;e, fornication, wicked|nes, covetou&s;ne&s;&s;e, malitiou&s;nes, with many other actuall &s;ins there recited. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 50.16.17. crimes again&s;t the fir&s;t Table in a forme of Religion, but a deniall of the power thereof. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 5.18.19.20. and crimes again&s;t the &s;econd Table, &s;peeches and actions, as theevery, adul<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ery wicked and deceitfull words, &amp;c. And in the mind no good. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 10.4. he is wickedly &s;ecure. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 18.11.13. proud. <HI>Revel.</HI> 18.7. <HI>Luk.</HI> 18.11.12. he per|ceiveth not the things of the word and &s;pirit, for they are foo|li&s;hne&s;&s;e vnto him. 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 2.14. wicked thoughts and &s;peeches of them that feare God. <HI>Mat.</HI> 12.24. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 74.8. no care of death, or hell, or judgement. <HI>I&s;a.</HI> 18.15. <HI>Luk.</HI> 12.19.45. of the
<PB N="73" REF="44"> will and affections, proud, wicked, and vile motions, inclina|tions, and de&s;ires. <HI>Galat.</HI> 5 17. of the members, innumerable wretched actions. And thus I haue de&s;cribed vnto you, the e&s;tate and condition of all men by nature, by rea&s;on of the fir&s;t puni&s;hment God laid vpon <HI>Adam,</HI> and his po&s;terity, for his fir&s;t offence, wherein you may perceiue, that there is little hope, for any man to expect, an impo&s;&s;ibilitie of the vi&s;ible Church not to erre or be corrupted, &s;eeing that all men are thus corrupted and out of order, not onely in their will and affections, but al&s;o in their rea&s;on it &s;elfe: therefore the Lord in mercy con&s;idering all mens naturall exorbitation, hath co~mended to his Church his &s;acred Oracles of his Word, as a rule whereto they mu&s;t take heede, for their inlightening and guiding in the way to heaven.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Declare vnto me the &s;econd puni&s;hment that God laid vpon Adam and his po&s;teritie for his offence.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The &s;econd puni&s;hment is death, which death is a depri|vation of life, and thereby man is &s;ubiect to much mi&s;ery. <HI>Rom.</HI> 6.33. <HI>The wages of &s;inne is death.</HI> Gen. 2.17. <HI>in the day thou eate&s;t thereof, thou &s;halt die the death.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How many kindes of death be there?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>There be two kinds of death, the fir&s;t and the &s;econd.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Declare the fir&s;t death.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The fir&s;t death is, &s;ubiection to the mi&s;eries of this world, the beginning hereof, is the &s;ubiectio~ to the mi&s;eries that come by the lo&s;&s;e of the good things of the body, as of health, whence commeth &s;ickne&s;&s;e and deformitie: &s;ence of nakedne&s;&s;e, weari|ne&s;&s;e, &s;ubiection to dangers, al&s;o &s;ubiection to the mi&s;eries, that come by the lo&s;&s;e of externall things, as of friends and friend&s;hip: honor, rule over the creatures, and of things nece&s;|&s;ary for the maintenance of life.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>When is the fir&s;t death perfected?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that the perfection and end thereof is, the go|ing out of the &s;pirits, whereby the &s;oule departeth out of the body, and the body afterward is re&s;olved into the elements.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is the &s;econd death?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The &s;econd death is the &s;ubiection of man to the mi&s;ery
<PB N="74" REF="45"> of the world to come, the beginning whereof is in this life as forerunners thereof, the emptines of the good things of the mind, as fir&s;t ignorance of God; &s;econdly, terrour of con&s;ci|ence; thirdly, flying and hiding him&s;elfe from the pre&s;ence of God, or el&s;e a deepe &s;ecuritie or &s;en&s;le&s;nes of mi&s;ery, de&s;paires, and a fearefull expectation of judgements.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is the perfection of the &s;econd death?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The perfection of the &s;econd death is an eiection eternal|ly from the face of God, and a ca&s;ting of the &s;oule immediately after the fir&s;t death into hell, and a re&s;ervation of the body in the graue, as in a dungeon again&s;t the day of judgement, when after the re&s;urrection both &s;oule and body &s;hall be ca&s;t thi|ther.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And is this an end of your di&s;cour&s;e of Adams puni&s;hment for his fir&s;t tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I am de&s;irous for your further vnder&s;tanding, to &s;hew you that God &s;o hated the &s;inne of <HI>Adam,</HI> that he did not &s;pare to cur&s;e the whole cour&s;e of nature for his &s;ake, even the ele|ments, and al&s;o the elementary creatures, which are compo&s;ed of their mixture: the words are the&s;e; <HI>Cur&s;ed is the earth for thy &s;ake.</HI> Thus God made the creatures which were obedient &s;er|vants, to be as it were rebellious enemies to <HI>Adam</HI> and his po|&s;teritie.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Why the earth was not guiltie of any &s;inne, and therefore &s;hew me, how in Iu&s;tice God did cur&s;e it, &s;eeing it was not guiltie of the crime?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, true it is, that no creatures are guiltie of the crime of &s;inne, but &s;uch as haue rea&s;on and will, therefore the earth and all the creatures produced out of it as out of their fir&s;t matter, being made for Gods glory and mans &s;ake, are cur&s;ed for mans &s;inne, that he might be cur&s;ed and puni&s;hed not one|ly in his owne per&s;on and po&s;terity, but as it were al&s;o puni&s;hed in his goods.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But wherein doth this cur&s;e of God vpon the creatures con&s;i&s;t, &s;eeing all things remaine as they were created at the fir&s;t?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It doth con&s;i&s;t in this, that they haue their ble&s;&s;ing and goodne&s;&s;e of creation, weakened and are now &s;ubiect to cor|ruption
<PB N="75" REF="45"> and vanitie;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 8.19.20 21.22.23.</NOTE> and therefore are not now &s;o perfect as at their fir&s;t creation: vnder which corruption and vanitie they doe groane, and the whole cour&s;e of nature in this world doth long and waite when the &s;onnes of God &s;hall be reveiled, that they may be delivered from the bondage of their corruption; vnder which by divine malediction in ju&s;tice to mans &s;inne they are in bondage. Nay, I &s;ay, that the very creatures haue and doe now groane and repine when&s;oever they are abu&s;ed to the &s;atisfying of wicked &s;inners voluptuous de&s;ires: Oh how much more &s;hould vild men groane and weepe for their naturall corruption by &s;inne, &s;eeing they haue brought &s;uch a mi&s;ery vpon all the world of Gods creatures by their &s;innes.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But you &s;aid even now, that the creatures which were at the fir&s;t obedient &s;ervants to man, are now become rebellious enemies to him. I pray &s;hew me wherein their rebellion doth con&s;i&s;t, &s;eeing that they doe to this day yeeld their &s;ervice, whereby the life of man is continued and pre&s;erved?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>To this your que&s;tion, I an&s;were, that the elements them&s;elues, of which the bodies of men and all other creatures are compo&s;ed, doe continually rebell again&s;t man, for mans rebellion again&s;t God by his &s;inne. As for example;<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 19.5.</NOTE> the <HI>Sunne who like a mightie man reioyceth to run his race, and nothing is hid from the heate thereof,</HI> and God having contracted heate and light into that body, to giue heate and light to the creatures vpon the earth: This Sunne, I &s;ay, is by his intemperate heate a continuall vexation to &s;ome Inhabitants of the earth, as in <HI>India,</HI> and other Southern Countries is well knowne to our Countreymen traveiling into tho&s;e parts: Be&s;ides we often who liue in the&s;e more temperate Climates, by the violent heate thereof, haue the earth &s;o dried that the gra&s;&s;e is burnt vp, and fruits &s;o pined, even as a poore childe at the withered bre&s;ts of the mother, and al&s;o the element of water which is cold in the highe&s;t degree, and of a gathering nature, is a con|tinuall vexation vnto &s;ome other parts of the earth by extreame fro&s;ts and inundations, as in the more Northern Countries it is well knowne: and al&s;o the element of earth, a continuall vexa|tion by barrenne&s;&s;e in &s;ome part of it, as we &s;ee by experience
<PB N="76" REF="46"> in our owne Countrey, that &s;ome part thereof is by nature more barren then others: We &s;ee al&s;o by experience, that the element of ayre is in &s;ome part of the world &s;o corrupt, that it is al&s;o a continuall affliction to the inhabitants: and &s;trangers comming to liue there, out of a more pure and fre&s;h aire, are &s;oone corrupted with agues, rheumes, with fluxes, and many other di&s;ea&s;es: now I &s;ay againe, that the&s;e 4. elements, fire, aire, water, and earth, being the mothers of all elementary creatures, doe nouri&s;h all elementary creatures, as mothers doe their children with their milke, and that according to the a|gen&s;ie of their compo&s;ed natures; as the fire to yeeld vnto them heate and light; the water coldne&s;&s;e and moy&s;ture; the aire warmth and breath; and the earth drine&s;&s;e and coldne&s;&s;e. Now it is cleare by experience, that all elementary creatures, haue their dependance for pre&s;ervatio~, vpon Gods providence, who v&s;eth as &s;ubordinate and &s;econd cau&s;es the elements, who by their influence and operations for the continuance, pre&s;er|vation, fertilitie, and augmentation of the elementaries, accor|ding to their naturall endowments: yet &s;o, that they the mo|ther elements doe not yeeld to the elementary creatures &s;uch a perfect influence for their good, as they did at the fir&s;t creati|on. And this commeth as I haue before &s;hewed, by Gods di|vine malediction in ju&s;tice for mans &s;inne.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, let me heare of the corruption of other creatures, which you call Elementaries.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George;</SPEAKER>
<P>The elementary creatures are of two &s;orts, that is to &s;ay, &s;uch as are of an imperfect, and al&s;o &s;uch as are of a perfect mixture: of the former, we haue little mention in the hi&s;tory of the Creation, but of the latter, in the fir&s;t of <HI>Gene&s;is,</HI> where the hi&s;tory of the Creation is &s;et downe, we haue given vs ma|ny examples.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What be the creatures of an imperfect mixture?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>They be &s;mokie and vaporous bodies, which be exhaled by the fire out of the earth and water, and &s;u&s;pended in the ayre, or inclo&s;ed in the pores and holes of the earth, <HI>P&s;alme</HI> 148.4. <HI>Clouds,</HI> ver&s;e 8. <HI>Fire, and haile, &s;now and vapours, &s;tor|me winds &amp;c.</HI> which execute his word, they all mu&s;t prai&s;e
<PB N="77" REF="46"> the Lord, becau&s;e he created them: the&s;e are called Meteours, becau&s;e they hang aloft in the ayre; of the&s;e, the le&s;&s;e is to be &s;ayd in divinitie, becau&s;e they rather come by generation, then by creation; yet God doth wonderfully expre&s;&s;e his Maie&s;tie in the&s;e imperfect bodies; among&s;t the&s;e Meteors and vaporous bodies, are included lightnings and &s;treames of fire in the elementarie heavens, the operations whereof doe &s;et on fire, Churches, Hou&s;es, Trees, and &s;ometimes killeth men and bea&s;ts, and in the&s;e are included earthquakes, whirle|winds, bla&s;ing &s;tarrs, and fading comets, by all which, the Lord doth a&s;toni&s;h, affright and &s;hew him&s;elfe terrible to the earth, by all which, we may admire the power of his hands, but never come to knowledge of his word.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well let me heare &s;omewhat, of the corruption of the ele|mentary creatures that followed vpon Gods cur&s;ing of the earth, the fir&s;t matter of them I meane of tho&s;e of a perfect mixture.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer as before, that for mans &s;inne, the ble&s;&s;ing and goodnes of their creation is weakened, and they are all &s;ub|iect to corruption and vanitie, now all the creatures in &s;ome &s;ort, haue &s;ome re&s;emblance with God in their goodnes, as I &s;hewed before. Now the fir&s;t degree of goodnes is, that ge|nerall perfection, which all things doe &s;eeke, by de&s;iring the continuing of their e&s;&s;ence, and beeing, now among the crea|tures; &s;ome are more con&s;tant, and &s;ome le&s;&s;e con&s;tant, yet all things covet as much as may be, to be like vnto God in be|ing, even tho&s;e incon&s;tant natures, though they cannot ob|taine it per&s;onally, doe &s;eeke it an otherway, by of-&s;pring and propagation. There is an other degree of goodnes, which each thing coveteth by affecting re&s;emblance with God in the con&s;tancie of their operations, according to the agencie of their kinds, the immutabilitie of God they &s;triue vnto, by working alway, or for the mo&s;t part, after one manner or te|nure: now I &s;ay, although Gods creatures are innumerable, yet they may all be brought into the&s;e 4. kinds, as for exam|ple, &s;ome be 1. naturall, &s;ome 2. vegetatiue, &s;ome 3. &s;en&s;itiue, and &s;ome 4. intellectuall or rationall; now all the&s;e as I haue &s;ayd, con&s;i&s;t in their matter and forme, which forme is the
<PB N="78" REF="47"> law of working, as I take it in all their &s;everall kinds, now I doe not de&s;ire to detract the lea&s;t thing from the God of glory, whom I &s;erue in his &s;onne Chri&s;t, for hee it is, which is the God of nature, and by his providence hath the admini&s;tration of all things, and nature in her &s;everall kinds, is but his in&s;tru|ment, whether it be for the glory of his mercy or iu&s;tice, and therefore, I an&s;were to your que&s;tion, this their forme where|in is contained their law of working is weakned and dimini|&s;hed, for all creatures ob&s;erue a certaine rule or law of work|ing, which law or rule God hath in&s;tituted in their &s;everall natures to guide them in their working and this I &s;ay againe that their law of working is weakened, whereby they do not &s;o perfectly worke for the pre&s;ervation of their owne kind in &s;peciall, neither for the good of other creatures, which haue dependances on them for the goodnes of their working.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I pray how are they weakened in the law of their working, for their owne pre&s;ervation, and the good of others which haue depen|dance of them, for the goodnes of their working?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were that their weakenes of working, commeth by their vanitie and corruption, whereunto they are &s;ubiect by rea&s;on of Gods cur&s;e vpon them for mans &s;inne, and therefore they doe hold alwayes their equall temper and proportion, with which God did at their fir&s;t creation indue them, and hence it is that they are often in di&s;temper, either by exce&s;&s;e, or by defect; for exce&s;&s;e and defect are oppo&s;ite to true pro|portion. I remember a learned man of ours &s;ayth, that nature is nothing el&s;e, but Gods in&s;trument, and he &s;ayth, that <HI>Dio|ni&s;ious</HI> in the cour&s;e of nature, perceiving &s;ome &s;udden di&s;tur|bance, cryed out that God doth either &s;uffer impediment, and is by a greater then him&s;elfe hindered, or if that be impo&s;|&s;ible, then hath he determined to make a pre&s;ent di&s;&s;olution of the world, for this corruption of nature, who&s;e law of working beginning to cea&s;e, doth pre&s;uppo&s;e, or is a forerun|ner of de&s;truction, of which you &s;hall heare hereafter: now I &s;ay, what a wonderfull puni&s;hment is it to man for his &s;inne, that the creatures elementary being perfect in their lawes of working in their fir&s;t creation, are now by Gods iu&s;t iudge|ment
<PB N="79" REF="47"> corrupted by exce&s;&s;e or defect of working, by which the earth doth bring forth thi&s;tles &amp; thornes, cockell and darnell,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 3.<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters"></NOTE> tares, and many other hurtfull plants and hearbs, all which I take it the earth did bring them forth before the fall, but then they were not hurtfull annoyances, becau&s;e man was then in innocency: but after the fall of man, God made them hurtfull annoyances for mans &s;inne, and cau&s;ed the earth in an exce&s;&s;iue manner to produce them, whereby they doe &s;ucke the fatne&s;&s;e of the earth from &s;uch other hearbs and plants and fruits as are more nece&s;&s;ary for mans nouri&s;hment, both of health, and &s;trength, and life. Be&s;ides, God for mans &s;inne doth &s;end Can|ker wormes, Catterpillers, Gra&s;hoppers, and many kindes of Mi&s;e, which eate the fruits, and corne, and graine. Be&s;ides, <HI>He maketh a fruitfull land barren, for the iniquitie of them that dwell therein.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what &s;ay you of elementary creatures &s;en&s;itiue, and of their corruption?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Our great God after he had fini&s;hed the worke of his crea|tion, appointed vnto man his foode in the&s;e words;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 1.29.</NOTE> <HI>And God &s;aid, behold I haue given vnto you every hearbe bearing &s;eed which is vpon all the earth; and every tree wherein is the fruit of a tree bearing &s;eede, that &s;hall be to you for meate.</HI> Now it is the Word of God that &s;anctifieth, and is the &s;taffe and &s;trength of bread, whereby it nouri&s;heth. How innumerable were the fruits and hearbes which God &s;anctified for mans v&s;e, as wheate, barley, milke, rice, &s;ugar, honey, rie, with many &s;uch; and the fruits of trees, as apples, peares, dates, figs, and innumerable more; and of hearbes innumerable more. And the Lord further to expre&s;&s;e his bountie, did giue man libertie to eate of fi&s;h, fowle, and fle&s;h, and this further grant was after man had &s;inned, and after God had de&s;troyed almo&s;t the whole world of &s;inners, &s;aving eight per&s;ons. What was there in man to moue him to to this bountie, &s;ure nothing; for the Lord &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 8.21.</NOTE> <HI>the imaginati|ons of mans heart is evill, even from his youth.</HI> Nay, the Lord, for all man was &s;o &s;infull and wretched a creature, did renew his dominion over the workes of his hands, as is expre&s;&s;ed in the&s;e words;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen 9.2.3.</NOTE> <HI>The feare of you and the dread of you &s;hall be vpon every
<PB REF="48"> bea&s;t of the earth, and vpon every fowle of the heaven, and vpon all that moveth vpon the earth, and vpon all fi&s;hes of the Sea, into your hands are they delivered, every thing that moveth and liveth &s;hall be meate for you, as the hearbe haue I given you all things.</HI> Now this dominion and rule of the creatures, which God gaue after the floud of <HI>Noah,</HI> was not &s;o perfect as their dominion which they had, in the time of innocency: for the cur&s;e which was laid vpon them at the fir&s;t for mans &s;inne, doth &s;till cleaue vnto them, whereby they are &s;ubiect to vanitie and corruption; as we may &s;ee in the &s;en&s;itiue creatures by experience, their law of working was not to de&s;troy and devour each other, and to make a pray of each other for their meate and foode, as we &s;ee the great bea&s;ts, foules, and fi&s;hes doe, to &s;atisfie their hunger vpon the &s;maller; for he appointed them their foode otherway, as appeareth in <HI>Gene&s;is</HI> 1.30. in the&s;e words; <HI>Likewi&s;e to every bea&s;t of the earth, and to every foule of the heaven, and to every thing that moveth vpon the earth, which hath life in it &s;elfe, every greene hearbe &s;hall be for meate, and it was &s;o.</HI> Be&s;ides, it is &s;aid in <HI>Gene|&s;is</HI> the 6. that <HI>the earth was corrupt before the Lord, for the earth was filled with crueltie;</HI> for bea&s;ts and foules do cruelly oppo&s;e each other by fighting &amp; tearing each other, as we &s;ee by dogs how they doe cruelly teare with their teeth one another, and Cockes with fighting kill one another; as we &s;ee it al&s;o with other bea&s;ts and foules, how cruelly they oppo&s;e each other; and all this came by man, who cruelly murthered him&s;elfe by his &s;inne; and man and woman how cruell they are each to o|ther, is too lamentable to &s;peake of. Bea&s;ts before the fall of man did dwell together,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;a. 11.4.5.</NOTE> and none did mole&s;t or hurt one ano|ther, but &s;o &s;oone as man had rebelled again&s;t the Lord, and that them&s;elues were &s;ubiect vnto vanitie, they began to op|pre&s;&s;e and devour one another. But is this all? No, they are corrupted in their law of &s;ubiection and obedience in their &s;ervice vnto man; For the ravening bea&s;ts, as Lyons, Beares, Tigers, Wolues, and Dogs, with many more, will teare in pee|ces, deuour, and eate the fle&s;h of man; nay, all the ho&s;t of Gods creatures, are readie pre&s;t to execute the Lords ju&s;tice again&s;t man, for his rebellion by &s;inne again&s;t God: a mans hor&s;e will
<PB N="81" REF="48"> &s;trike his Mai&s;ter, and will faulter in his law of &s;trength by &s;tumbling, to the laming or killing of his mai&s;ter: a mans dog will bite his Mai&s;ter; and his Cow will gore him, even &s;ome|times to death. What &s;hould I &s;ay? it is marvaile that our mor&s;els we eate, doe not &s;uffocate and &s;top our breath; that our cloths doe not cleaue to our skin, and teare it off our backe; that our hou&s;es fall not on our heads, and cru&s;h vs in peeces; and the ground we tread on, &s;wallows vs not vp quicke; the very law of the creatures, is &s;o turned again&s;t man, for his &s;ub|iecting them to vanitie and corruption, by his &s;inne again&s;t God their Creator, that the Lord is often faine by miracle to &s;tay their rages: as to quench the violence of devouring fire in the Oven, into the which the three &s;ervants of God were ca&s;t by <HI>Nebuchadnezzar;</HI> and to &s;top the mouths of Lyons, into who&s;e dennes <HI>Daniel</HI> was ca&s;t: our Saviour &s;taid the waues of the Sea, and &s;tilled the tempe&s;tuous &s;tormes and winds. Nay, I thinke I may &s;afely &s;ay, that the Lord doth continually worke miraculou&s;ly for vs, in that he &s;tayeth the rage of all the crea|tures, from working our pre&s;ent de&s;truction, wee having by our &s;innes brought them to vanitie and corruption, but this our omnipotent God doth, to glorifie him&s;elfe in his rich good|nes &amp; mercy; for as it is in the <HI>P&s;alme,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 104.</NOTE> <HI>the earth is ful of the good|ne&s;&s;e of the Lord;</HI> And this goodnes the Lord doth &s;till continue to invite &amp; draw vs vnto him&s;elfe, the e&s;&s;ence and fountaine of all good; and tho&s;e that &s;ubmit their willes to be drawen vn|to, and to &s;eeke him, the goodne&s;&s;e of the creatures, are as pled|ges of his loue; but tho&s;e that will not be invited to &s;eeke him, the goodne&s;&s;e of the creatures, will but fat them vp again&s;t the great day of &s;laughter. And thus far of the corruption of the &s;en&s;itiue elementaries, and of the corruption of the whole world by mans &s;inne.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You haue made a long digre&s;&s;ion from our intended conference of the vi&s;ible Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I haue &s;o, but I hope my digre&s;&s;ion hath tended to edifi|cation, and to draw you along to the better vnder&s;tanding and con&s;ideration of the corruption of the vi&s;ible Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What corruption doe you meane? I know all men are corrupted
<PB N="82" REF="49"> with &s;inne, and &s;o the vi&s;ible Church is corrupted in that it con&s;i&s;teth of &s;infull members.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Nay, I would haue you to know, that the vi&s;ible Church in the &s;everall parts of it, may be and often is corrupted with er|rour, and even here&s;ie too.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I deny that, for our Church doth not erre, and it holdeth that it cannot erre in matter of faith.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I haue told you, that I would proue, that the vi&s;ible Church may and often hath erred in matters of faith.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, let me heare what you can &s;ay, to proue that which you haue &s;aid, which I know you cannot doe.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Thus I begin. All &s;inne what&s;oever proceedeth either from the errour of judgement, or from the peruer&s;nes of will, now I would intreate you, to con&s;ider with me a little what I haue formerly &s;aid and proved. I haue &s;hewed you, that all bo|dies both naturall, vegetatiue, &s;en&s;itiue, rationall, and collectiue bodies, either civill or eccle&s;ia&s;ticall, which is the Church vi&s;i|ble, that they all con&s;i&s;t of matter and forme. I haue &s;hewed you al&s;o of man, how he is corrupted in his law of rea&s;on, and will, by originall &s;inne. I haue al&s;o &s;hewed you that for mans &s;inne the whole cour&s;e of nature, even all the creatures are cor|rupted in the law of their working, and &s;ubiect vnto vanitie in ju&s;tice for mans &s;inne. It now remaineth that I proue vnto you, that the vi&s;ible Church in her forme and law of working may be corrupted: it is plaine by your owne acknowledge|ment, that all men are corrupted with &s;inne, your owne lear|ned men doe freely grant, that albeit the Pope, as they &s;ay, can|not teach here&s;ie, nor propound errour; he may notwith&s;tan|ding him&s;elfe wor&s;hip Idols; thinke ami&s;&s;e concerning mat|ters of faith; yea, giue him&s;elfe vnto acts diabolicall, even be|ing Pope, and yet they hold him head and principall ruler of the vi&s;ible Church; but this is our comfort, we acknowledge no &s;uch rotten and corrupted head, but the head whom we doe acknowledge, is a mo&s;t holy, mo&s;t wi&s;e, and vncorrupted head, which head is Chri&s;t Ie&s;us our Saviour: but &s;eeing the head and members are corrupt, as you acknowledge, and may be &s;ubiect vnto errours; hence it is, that the vi&s;ible Church may
<PB N="83" REF="49"> erre, for that which is true in every member of the Church, is al&s;o true in the whole: becau&s;e men in this life are inlightened but in part, and therefore &s;till remaine &s;ubject to blindne&s;&s;e of minde, and ignorance, and to rebellion of their will and affections. I know, that &s;ome learned men of ours, doe hold that the whole Church vi&s;ible doth not erre, but in the parts it may and doth erre, but &s;eeing it may erre in the parts, I can|not &s;ee, but it may doe &s;o, though not fundamentally and per|tinaciou&s;ly in the whole: your Church is no more able to de|fend their gro&s;&s;e errours, then I am able to defend my &s;elfe a|gain&s;t an ho&s;te of men of ten thou&s;and, and therefore the de|vill hath taught them a tricke, to defend all in gro&s;&s;e at on<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> blow, by maintaining that the Church cannot erre: but Seni|our <HI>Philip,</HI> I would wi&s;h you, and all private men, to take heed of this opinion; for by this they doe deceiue many thou&s;and &s;oules, to their eternall perdition: for by this, they doe defend their gro&s;&s;e Idolatries, &s;uper&s;titions, and filthy ab&s;urdities, which mu&s;t not be called into que&s;tion, becau&s;e their Church cannot erre.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But before you proceede any further, &s;hew what is here&s;ie, which maketh an hereticke.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It is to be deceived in iudgement, in &s;ome principall grounds of true religion, as the <HI>Arrians</HI> were, in the denying the eternitie of the &s;onne of God, and as the <HI>Pelagians</HI> were, and your Church with them, holding a libertie of will in a naturall man in godly actions: &amp; to per&s;i&s;t ob&s;tinately in the &s;ame.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>From whence are the principles of religion gathered?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were from the word of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>So &s;ay we; but what word is it you meane?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I meane the word of God reveiled in the Scriptures,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Tim. 3.15.16.17.</NOTE> <HI>which is &s;ufficient to make man wi&s;e vnto &s;alvation, and to make a man of God perfect in all things.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I meane not onely the word of God written, but al&s;o the word of God reveiled to the Church by traditions, from both which the principles of religion are gathered.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Your traditions make the word of God in the &s;cripture
<PB N="84" REF="50"> imperfect, as if they needed a &s;upply, but we renounce your traditions, if they be brought to &s;upply the defect of the &s;crip|tures, they being a perfect rule to lead vnto eternall bli&s;&s;e, and therefore all principles of religion mu&s;t be drawne from thence: Marke what Saint <HI>Iohn</HI> &s;ayth, what was the end of the written word,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">h. 20.31.</NOTE> <HI>the&s;e things are written, that you might beleeue that Ie&s;us is that Chri&s;t that &s;onne of God, and that in beleeving, yee might haue life through his name:</HI> and if the &s;criptures were written to bring vs to faith, and to haue life in the name of Chri&s;t, and the &s;criptures being &s;ufficient to this end, what neede haue we then of your traditions, they being indeed not the word of God, but the word of humane invention.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How can you know that &s;cripture is &s;cripture, and the word of God, but by the tradition of the Church?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer we contemne not the te&s;timony of the Church, no nor the te&s;timony of Heathen hi&s;tories, wherein are recor|ded many things that are &s;et downe in the Bible: yet the Hea|thens te&s;timony is not &s;o good, as is the Churches, nor the Churches, &s;o good, as the &s;criptures te&s;tifying of it &s;elfe, nor the &s;cripture &s;o evident, as is the witnes of the Spirit, who was the Authour of the &s;criptures.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How doth the Church witnes, that the &s;cripture is the word of God?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>By publi&s;hing, and preaching it to the world.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>How doth the Church preach and publi&s;h it to the world?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were fir&s;t by reading, and therein it publi&s;heth it, and preacheth it as a witnes, that the &s;criptures they reade, is the word of God, Secondly, the Church doth preach and publi&s;h it by Sermons, that the &s;criptures is the word of God, and this is by explication, in delivering the true &s;ence, and ap|plying it to the nece&s;&s;arie v&s;e of &s;infull &s;oules.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And how doth the &s;cripture beare witnes vnto men that it is the word?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer, that the grounds to &s;hew out of the &s;criptures, that they are the word of God,<NOTE PLACE="marg">The cau&s;es of <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">e Scripture.</NOTE> may be reduced to &s;ixe heads, the fir&s;t is taken from the cau&s;es: as fir&s;t, from God the Au|thour of &s;cripturs; and &s;econdly, the pen-men of the holy
<PB N="85" REF="50"> Gho&s;t, namely, the Apo&s;tles, and Prophets, and Evangeli&s;ts, touching the authour, the Scripture refers it &s;elfe onely vn|to God, therefore he alone is the bare and vndoubted Au|thour thereof, and this in con&s;cience we may re&s;t vpon.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what &s;ay you to the pen-men of the holy Gho&s;t?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>For the writers of the &s;criptures, <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> the <HI>Prophets,</HI> and the <HI>Apo&s;tles,</HI> in their writings doe not &s;et forth their owne glory, vertue, and nobilitie, but haue acknowledged their owne errours, and faults, yea &s;uch faults, as may be di&s;grace|full to them&s;elues, and their po&s;teritie: a plaine proofe, that they were not carried by policie, and naturall rea&s;on, but were holy men, guided by the holy Gho&s;t: if rea&s;on had guided them they would never haue written, that which would haue turned to their di&s;grace, but would rather haue commended them&s;elues, their name, &s;tocke, and linage, as humane writers doe: but the&s;e writers giue and a&s;cribe all prai&s;e and glory to God, yea when they &s;peake of commendation due to men, they giue it all to God in men, God is in their writings, the beginning, the end, and all.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what is the &s;econd head of rea&s;ons?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The &s;econd head of rea&s;ons,<NOTE PLACE="marg">The matter of the Scripture.</NOTE> is taken from the matter and contents, as fir&s;t no other bookes can &s;et out the corruption of mans nature by &s;inne, the fountaine of this corruption, and the puni&s;hment of the &s;ame, both in this life and in the life to come; it di&s;covereth &s;infull particular thoughts, lu&s;ts, and af|fections, which no other booke hath ever done be&s;ides, the rea&s;on of man cannot di&s;cerne them by nature, vnle&s;&s;e it re|ceiue a further light by grace. Yea, the Scripture &s;ets downe things, that no mans heart can imagine, and yet are true by ex|perience: for example, that it is an evill thought to thinke there is no God, man by nature cannot imagine it, but it is true by experience, and therefore <HI>David</HI> &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 14.</NOTE> <HI>the foole hath &s;aid in his heart, there is no God.</HI> Thus by the light of the Word it is true, therefore the Scriptures is the Word of God. Secondly, <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">hat the maine contents of the Scriptures are &s;undry Articles of faith, all which are aboue mans rea&s;on, and yet they are not a|gain&s;t it, but at lea&s;t &s;ome of them may be proved by it; for ex|ample,
<PB N="86" REF="51"> that there is a Redeemer of the world, is an Article of faith aboue rea&s;on, yet not again&s;t it, for in naturall vnder|&s;tanding, God is not all ju&s;tice, and no mercy, but if there were no Redeemer, then &s;hould God be all ju&s;tice without mercie&punc; now becau&s;e he hath reveiled him&s;elfe, to be as well merciful, as he is ju&s;t, rea&s;on concludeth, there is a Redeemer. Againe, that the Redeemer &s;hould be God and man, is aboue rea&s;on, yet not again&s;t it, for rea&s;on teacheth that he mu&s;t be God, that he might &s;atisfie the infinite ju&s;tice of God for &s;inne, which none but God can doe; againe, that he mu&s;t be man, becau&s;e that man had &s;inned, man mu&s;t be puni&s;hed for the &s;inne of man. Thirdly, in the Scriptures there are &s;undry predictions of Prophecies made before-hand particularly, which not|with&s;tanding were not to come to pa&s;&s;e till 100. 200. or 300. yeares after: and all the&s;e Prophecies or predictions, in the &s;ame manner as they haue beene foretold, haue beene fulfilled. As for example, <HI>Iacob</HI> in his Will foretold, that the Scepter &s;hould not depart from <HI>Iuda</HI> till <HI>Shilo,</HI> that is, the <HI>Me&s;&s;ias</HI> come: this was verefied, even as it was foretold; for a little be|fore Chri&s;ts birth, the Scepter was taken from the <HI>Iewes,</HI> and tran&s;lated to the <HI>Romane</HI> Empire; and <HI>Herod</HI> put the whole Colledge of the <HI>Iewi&s;h</HI> Governors, called the <HI>Sanedrin</HI> to death. I might declare many more predictions, which came to pa&s;&s;e as they were foretold, which doe evidently &s;hew, that the Scrip|tures are the Word of God. Fourthly, the Law a part of the Scripture, is propounded mo&s;t purely and perfectly without exception or limitation, whereas in all mans Lawes &s;ome &s;innes are condemned, but &s;ome be tollerated and permitted, but in Gods Law every &s;inne is condemned, &amp; none either forborn<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> or excu&s;ed, therefore the Scripture is Gods word. La&s;tly, the &s;tile and &s;peech of the Scripture is plaine and &s;imple, without affectation, and yet full of grace and Maie&s;tie; for in that &s;im|ple &s;tile it commandeth the whole man, body, and &s;oule; it threatneth everla&s;ting death, and promi&s;eth everla&s;ting life, and it doth more affect the heart of man, then all the writing in the world what&s;oever.<NOTE PLACE="marg">The effects of Scripture.</NOTE> The third rea&s;on to &s;hew the Scripture to be the Word of God, is taken from the effects, whereof one|ly
<PB N="87" REF="51"> two &s;hall &s;uffice. Fir&s;t the doctrine of the &s;cripture in the Law, and e&s;pecially in the Go&s;pell, is contrary to the corrup|ted nature of man; wherevpon <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith thus;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 8.7.</NOTE> <HI>the wi&s;edome of the fle&s;h is enmitie again&s;t God;</HI> and yet the &s;ame Word being Preached, conuerteth nature, and turneth the heart of man in|to it, in &s;uch &s;ort, as in this la&s;t age, it hath wonne a great part of the world, to the imbracing thereof. Now in rea&s;on this is impo&s;&s;ible, that a thing which is &s;o flat again&s;t mans corrupted nature, &s;hould prevaile with it &s;o far, as to cau&s;e man to liue and to die in the profe&s;&s;ion and the maintenance thereof; and this &s;heweth that God is the Author thereof, from whom the word of Creation came, to which every thing at the fir&s;t yeelded o|bedience, therefore the Scriptures is the Word of God. Se|condly, the Word of God hath this effect, to be able to mini|&s;ter comfort, in all di&s;tre&s;&s;es of body and mind, and of con&s;ci|ence; and when the helpes of humane learning, which is of great v&s;e, and force in other ca&s;es, haue done all that they can, without effect or &s;ucce&s;&s;e, even then, the &s;weete promi&s;es of the Go&s;pell, will reviue and rai&s;e vp the heart, and giue it full contentment. Experience &s;heweth this to be a confe&s;&s;ed truth in particular ca&s;es, &amp; it teacheth whence this word proceedeth, wherein the&s;e promi&s;es are contained, namely, from God: for when he &s;etteth the con&s;cience vpon the racke, the Word that relieueth and refre&s;heth the &s;ame, mu&s;t needs proceede and come from him alone.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Properti<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">.</NOTE> The fourth rea&s;on is from the pro|perties of Scripture; the fir&s;t is antiquitie, which mo&s;t plaine|ly appeares in Scriptures by the Hi&s;tories, though the doctrine is al&s;o as ancient; therein is contained a continuall hi&s;tory, from age to age, for 4000. yeares before Chri&s;t, even from the begin|ning of the world. The &s;econd propertie is, con&s;ent with it &s;elfe in all parts, both for matter, &s;cope, and end. The writings of men do di&s;&s;ent from them&s;elues, by rea&s;on of ignorance and forgetfulne&s;&s;e in the Authors; but the Scripture agreeth with it &s;elfe mo&s;t exactly, and the places that &s;eeme to di&s;agree, may ea&s;ily be reconciled; which &s;heweth, that holy men, by whom it was penned, were directed by the wi&s;edome of the &s;pirit of God; therefore the Scripture is the Word of God.</P>
<PB REF="52">
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">Contraritties.</NOTE>The fift rea&s;on is drawen from the contrarieties: the Devill and wicked men, are in judgement and di&s;po&s;ition, as contrary to Scriptures, as light to darkene&s;&s;e. I proue it thus; let a man reade any booke of Philo&s;ophie, and labour to be re&s;olved vpon any one point therein, he &s;hall never be tempted to in|fidelitie; but if the &s;ame man read the bookes of Scripture, and labour to vnder&s;tand them, he &s;hall haue within him&s;elfe, many motions and temptations, not to beleeue and obey it. Now, what &s;hould be the cau&s;e thereof, but that the&s;e bookes are the Word of God, which the devill labours to oppugne with might and maine, therefore the Scripture is the word of God? Againe, con&s;ider the &s;ame in the practice of wicked men, they will not brooke the rebuke of their &s;innes, as their Idolatrie, bla&s;phemie, and other notorious crimes by Scriptures, but will &s;eeke the life of him that &s;hall &s;harply reproue them. And hence it was, that wicked Kings &s;o per&s;ecuted the Lords Pro|phets. Yea further, let it be marked, that tho&s;e wicked men that are tainted with tho&s;e wicked crimes, and cannot abide the Scriptures and teachers thereof to their death, haue common|ly fearefull ends. Now the oppo&s;ition of Satan, and wicked men to the Scriptures, &s;hewes them to be the mo&s;t holy word of God. The &s;ixt rea&s;on is taken from &s;undry te&s;timonies; fir&s;t, of holy Martyres in the Old and New Te&s;tament, who haue given their liues for the maintenance of the Scriptures, and &s;ealed with their bloud, and that mo&s;t patiently and wil|lingly, not being di&s;maid. The &s;tories of Martyrs in all ages confirme this truth; and vnle&s;&s;e they had beene &s;upported by a divine power, in &s;o good a cau&s;e, they could never &s;o many of them, haue &s;uffered in &s;uch cruell manner as they did, there|fore the Scriptures is the word of God. The &s;econd te&s;timony, is the con&s;ent of heathen men; heathen men, who haue recor|ded the &s;ame things, at lea&s;t many of the principles that are &s;et downe in the Scripture; if this were not &s;o, man &s;hould haue &s;ome colourable excu&s;e of his vnbeliefe, and the&s;e things which they record, were not all taken out of the Bibles, but were re|g&s;tired to memory by Hi&s;toriographers, that lived in the times, when they were done; &s;uch were the &s;tories of the Creation,
<PB N="89" REF="52"> and Floud, and of the Tower of <HI>Babell,</HI> of the Arke, of <HI>Abra|ham,</HI> and of his po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ions, of Circumci&s;ion, of the miracles of <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> of the birth of Chri&s;t, of the death of <HI>Herod, Agrippa,</HI> and &s;uch like. And the&s;e we take for true in humane Stories, much more then, ought we to doe it in the Word of God, which is the Scriptures. The third te&s;timony, is of miracles, the doctrine of Scripture was confirmed by miracles wrought by the Teachers thereof, the Prophets and Apo&s;tles, aboue all power and &s;trength of nature, and &s;uch as the devill cannot counterfeit; as the &s;taying of the Sunne, and the rai&s;ing of the dead, &amp;c. The fourth, is the te&s;timony of the holy Gho&s;t, which is the argument of all arguments, to &s;ettle and re&s;olue the con&s;cience, and to &s;eale vp the certaintie, that the Scripture is the Word of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But how is the te&s;timony of the holy Gho&s;t obtained, and how may we di&s;cerne it to be his te&s;timony, and not of man?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were fir&s;t by re&s;igning our &s;elues to become truely obedient to the doctrine taught, <HI>Iohn</HI> 7.17.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 7.17.</NOTE> <HI>If any man will doe my Fathers will,</HI> &s;ayth Chri&s;t, <HI>he &s;hall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God,</HI> Secondly, by praying vnto God, for his &s;pirit to certifie our con&s;ciences, that the doctrine reveiled is the doctrine of God: <HI>Aske</HI> &s;ayth our Saviour, <HI>and it &s;hall be given you,</HI> and Mat. 7.7.8.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Math 7.7.8.</NOTE> <HI>Your heavenly Father will giue the holy Gho&s;t to them that de&s;ire him.</HI> Luke 11.13.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Luk. 11.13.</NOTE> <HI>If any man lacke wi&s;edome, let him aske it of God, who giveth to all men liberally, and reproacheth no man, it &s;hall be given him.</HI> Iames 1.7.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Iam. 1.7.</NOTE> And thus I haue &s;hewed you the evident te&s;timonies, whereby a man may know that the &s;cripture is the word of God: as fir&s;t, the Church, whom God doth v&s;e as his in&s;trument, to draw Infidels, to beleeue the &s;cripture to be the word of God, and when Infidels are &s;o per&s;waded, then the &s;criptures as a more &s;tronger evidence, doth te&s;tifie of it &s;elfe, that it is the word of God, and this appeareth by tho&s;e evident demon&s;trations, I haue formerly declared, and next the &s;tronge&s;t and mo&s;t in|fallible evidence is, of the &s;pirit of God, when by his power, he doth regenerate, and change a man as it were, obediently into the word in loue, to feare the threats again&s;t &s;inne and &s;in|ners,
<PB N="90" REF="53"> and to obey the commandements, both negatiuely and affirmatiuely, and to repo&s;e him&s;elfe confidently vpon the pro|mi&s;es of grace and mercie therein reveiled, and &s;o much &s;hall &s;uffice to proue that the &s;cripture, is the word of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>When will you begin to proue that the Church may erre, you haue againe, made a long digre&s;&s;ion from it.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>My digre&s;&s;ion hath ri&s;en vpon your que&s;tions, which I held fit for you to moue, and me to an&s;were, &s;eeing the &s;crip|tures, are the ground of the Church, whereupon we doe now conferre, for as the Apo&s;tle &s;aith, <HI>the Church is founded vpon the doctrine of the Apo&s;tles, and Prophets, Ie&s;us Chri&s;t being the head corner &s;tone,</HI> and wee know nothing of their doctrine, but by the &s;criptures: I know, you of your Religion, doe held the authoritie of the Church, is greater then the autho|ritie of the &s;criptures, and therefore our digre&s;&s;ion, hath not beene impertinent to our di&s;cour&s;e of the Church, but of this hereafter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What we of our Religion hold is true: but &s;hew your proofe, that the vi&s;ible church may erre.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I will begin with <HI>Adam,</HI> in who&s;e loynes the vi&s;ible Church was, even in the time of innocencie, and yet then the Church erred,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 2.17.</NOTE> the Lord gaue him a Law of prohibition, by forbidding him to eate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evill, in which commandement &s;tood his hap|pines, and felicitie, namely, by cleaving vnto God in obedi|ence to this commandement, but hee erred from this com|mandement,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen 3.4.9.</NOTE> in beleeving the Devils doctrine, who &s;ayd, <HI>ye &s;hall not die at all: but God doth know, that when yee &s;hall eate thereof, your eyes &s;hall be opened, and ye &s;hall be as Gods, knowing good and evill:</HI> This lying doctrine, <HI>Adam</HI> beleeved and obey|ed to his owne ruine, and the corrupting his po&s;teritie, this precept was ea&s;ie for <HI>Adam</HI> to haue kept, &s;eeing hee was per|fectly pure by Creation, and had abilitie to performe his act of obedience. But &s;eing the Church in innocency erred, there is little hope, that the Church vi&s;ible, con&s;i&s;ting of none, but corrupted members, &s;hould not erre. See what followed in the &s;ucceeding times of the vi&s;ible Church, it was wor&s;e and
<PB N="91" REF="53"> wor&s;e, as may be &s;eene by the corruption and confu&s;ion, that was in the time of <HI>Noah</HI> and of <HI>Abraham,</HI> and among&s;t the <HI>I&s;|raelites</HI> in <HI>Egypt,</HI> notwith&s;tanding the miracles they &s;aw, every day wrought before their eyes; as &s;aith the Lord by <HI>Ezechiell. When I had lift vp mine hand to deliver you out of Egypt,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ezech. 20.6.7.8.</NOTE> <HI>none of you did ca&s;t away the abhominable things of Egypt: none of you did depart from your Idols. Thy brea&s;ts</HI> (&s;aith he to the vi&s;ible Church,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ezech. 23.</NOTE> then to <HI>Ieru&s;alem</HI> her &s;elfe) <HI>were bru&s;ed by the Egyptians in their virginitie.</HI> And &s;aith S. <HI>Steven,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Act. 7.39.</NOTE> <HI>in their hearts they turned backe into Egypt.</HI> And this &s;hall &s;uffice for the fir&s;t &s;tate and period of the vi&s;ible Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, let me heare what you can &s;ay of the next period of the Church vi&s;ible?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The next period of the Church, is vnder the Law. God hath had ever &s;ome Church vi&s;ible vpon the earth, and there|fore vnder the Law. <HI>When the people of God,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod. 32. P&s;al. 106.19. 2 Kings. 18 4. Iere. 11.13. 2 King 22.17</NOTE> <HI>both Prie&s;ts and peo|ple, wor&s;hipped the Calfe in the Wilderne&s;&s;e; When they adored the bra&s;en Serpent; When they &s;erved the gods of the Nations; When they bowed their knees to Baall; When they burnt Incen&s;e, and of|fered &s;acrifice to Idols.</HI> Were not the&s;e errours, thinke you, and yet were they the vi&s;ible Church of God that fell away into the&s;e vile abu&s;es? True it is, the wrath of God was mo&s;t fierce|ly inflamed again&s;t them, and their Prophets, ju&s;tly condem|ned them, as an adulterous &s;eede, and a wicked generation of mi&s;creants, which had for&s;aken the living God, and of him were likewi&s;e for&s;aken, in re&s;pect of that &s;ingular mercy, wherewith he kindly and lovingly embraceth his faithfull children. Howbeit, the members of the vi&s;ible Church they were, and had formerly bin, that thus after abandoned them|&s;elues to Idolatry, and to the &s;ervice of &s;trange gods: yea, mem|bers of the vi&s;ible Church, continued many of them &s;till, that yet wor&s;hipped the bra&s;en Serpent, and that &s;acrificed in the high places, though directly contrary they did therein, to Gods expre&s;&s;e word and will. Finally, when the <HI>Iewes</HI> would not hearken, to the admonition of the Prophets of God, the graci|ous God would, as it were, force them by his mercy, and therefore &s;ent them downe from heaven, &s;alvation it &s;elfe, to
<PB N="92" REF="54"> wit, Ie&s;us Chri&s;t his onely Sonne our Lord. But how did the vi&s;ible Church carry her &s;elfe towards him? Surely, he had no greater enemies, then the Prie&s;ts, the Scribes, the Doctors, and the Phari&s;ies; and the&s;e were the Cleargie, as you &s;peake, and &s;uch as had the Law committed vnto them; the&s;e were tho&s;e which &s;hould haue beene the lights of the Church; and the&s;e, if Chri&s;t &s;pake of the reformation of the Church, they &s;aid, <HI>He would de&s;troy the Temple;</HI> if he &s;pake of the grace of God offered by the <HI>Me&s;&s;ias,</HI> then they &s;aid, <HI>He bla&s;phemed a|gain&s;t the Law of God;</HI> if he &s;pake of the kingdome of heaven, then he &s;pake <HI>again&s;t the Maie&s;tie of Cae&s;ar;</HI> if he wrought mi|racles, then they &s;aid, <HI>it was by the power of the devils;</HI> and if he alledged the Scriptures, then they demanded to &s;ee his orders for his Doctor&s;hip; and they ca&s;t him in the teeth, that <HI>he was but a Carpenters Sonne.</HI> And if you con&s;ider the Church vi&s;i|ble among&s;t the people, they cho&s;e <HI>Barrabas,</HI> a murtherer, re|fu&s;ing Chri&s;t the <HI>Me&s;&s;ias,</HI> and him they Crucified. Oh, what a feareful errour was this of the Rulers, and people of that vi&s;i|ble Church! And thus much, in briefe, of the errours of the vi&s;ible Church from time to time, till Chri&s;t his a&s;cen&s;ion in|to heaven. I might haue &s;hewed multitudes of examples in particulars, of the error of the vi&s;ible Church before the Cru|cifying of Chri&s;t; but for the avoiding of weari&s;ome tediou&s;|ne&s;&s;e to you and my &s;elfe; I haue thought the&s;e &s;ufficient, and if you will but acquaint your &s;elfe with the Scriptures, you &s;hall find much more errour to haue beene in the vi&s;ible Church, then any man can well relate by &s;peech vnto you.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, let me heare you proue to me, that one part of the vi&s;ible Church is, or may be, more corrupted with errour then another.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, the vi&s;ible Church, as I haue &s;aid, is but one; of which Church, all parts haue not beene alwayes equally &s;incere and &s;ound. In the dayes of <HI>Abia,</HI> it appeareth plainely, that <HI>Iudah</HI> was by many degrees, more free from here&s;ie and pollution then <HI>I&s;raell;</HI> as that &s;olemn Oration &s;heweth, where he pleadeth for the one again&s;t the other, on this wi&s;e; <HI>O Ie|robeam, and all I&s;raell, heare you mee, haue you not driven away the Prie&s;ts of the Lord, the &s;onnes of Aaron, and the Levites, and
<PB N="93" REF="54"> haue made you Prie&s;tes like the people of the Nations: who&s;oever commeth to con&s;ecrate with a young Bullocke and &s;eaven Rammes, the &s;ame may be a Prie&s;t of them that are no gods; but we belong vn|to the Lord our God, and haue not for&s;aken him, and the Prie&s;ts the &s;onnes of Aaron mini&s;ter vnto the Lord every morning and eve|ry evening burnt offerings and &s;weet incen&s;e, and the bread is &s;et in order vpon the pure Table, and the Candle&s;tickes of gold, with the Lampes thereof to burne every evening; for we keepe the watch of the Lord our God, but yee haue for&s;aken him.</HI> And doe you not thinke, that the parts of the Chri&s;tian Church, were defiled more one then another, with error &amp; corruption, after Chri&s;ts a&s;cen&s;ion? In S. <HI>Pauls</HI> time, the puritie and integritie of <HI>Rome</HI> was famous: oh, that the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> were now as then it was! we need not then be exhorted, to joyne with it in Gods &s;ervice; for we would willingly glorifie God in her commu|nion and fellow&s;hip, but as &s;hee is we dare not, lea&s;t we be par|takers of her &s;innes. Reade the Epi&s;tles to the Church of the <HI>Corinthians,</HI> and you &s;hall find her many wayes reprooved. Looke into the Church of <HI>Galatia,</HI> and you &s;hall find by the Epi&s;tle which <HI>Paul</HI> writ to them, that they were much more out of &s;quare, then <HI>Corinth</HI> was. Looke in S. <HI>Iohn</HI> his time, who (as I take it) out-lived all the Apo&s;tles, and you &s;hall find <HI>Ephe&s;us</HI> and <HI>Smyrna</HI> in far better &s;tate of puritie, then <HI>Thiatira</HI> and <HI>Pergamus</HI> were: the errors of them I omit for brevities &s;ake.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But Rome hath greater promi&s;es and priviledges then all other parts of the vi&s;ible Church, and therefore no maruaile if they fayle; if they for&s;ake &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion and communion with her.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>In time co~venient, we &s;hall heare you &s;hew the promi&s;es, and priviledges, and primacie of the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> aboue other parts of the vi&s;ible Church. But in the meane time, it is cleare, as I haue proved, that the vi&s;ible Church hath erred in her &s;everall parts, and that one part hath beene more corrup|ted, and more erroneous then another; it is the dutie therefo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">e of the vi&s;ible Church, if one part be wounded with error or here&s;ie, that the &s;ounder in charitie labour to heale it; if one pa<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">t be lamed, the &s;tronger part is in dutie to indevour to
<PB N="94" REF="55"> make it goe vpright in the faith of Gods truth; if one part be full of Lepro&s;ie, the pure part &s;hould labour to clen&s;e it; if one part be &s;icke vnto death in here&s;ie, the &s;ounder part &s;hould labour to keepe it aliue in the Lords truth. This dutie hath our Church of great <HI>Brittaine</HI> charitably performed towardes the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> as is evident both by the learned bookes of our late gracious renowned &amp; learned King; as al&s;o by the learned and godly di&s;putations, and bookes of Controver&s;ies with your Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> and yet &s;hee continueth in her corruptions and here&s;ies &s;till. It may be &s;aid of <HI>Rome,</HI> as our Saviour Chri&s;t &s;aid of <HI>Ieru&s;alem,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 23.37.38.</NOTE> in S. <HI>Mathews</HI> Go&s;pell; his words are, <HI>Ieru&s;alem, Ieru&s;alem, which kille&s;t the Prophets, and &s;tone&s;t them which are &s;ent vnto thee, how often would I haue ga|thered thy children together, as the henne gathereth her chickens vnder her wings, and yee would not.</HI> And doth not the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> follow <HI>Ieru&s;alem</HI> in her rebellion, in killing and cru|cifying the Pa&s;tors &amp; Prophets of the new Te&s;tament, which Chri&s;t in loue doth &s;end vnto her, to reclaime her? Hath not the Lord in mercie, a long time &s;pread out the wings of the Go&s;pell, and clucked to the Chickens of <HI>Rome</HI> to come and gather them&s;elues vnder the wings of his gracious protection, and to &s;helter and keepe them, from eternall wrath and confu|&s;ion to come, and yet they will not come out of that Church of confu&s;ion? I would wi&s;h you Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> and all private men to obey the voyce of Chri&s;t, and be well acquainted with it, to di&s;cerne it from the voyce of Antichri&s;t, which &s;peaketh in the Church of <HI>Rome.</HI> Ble&s;&s;ed be God, the voyce of Chri&s;t in the Go&s;pell, hath prevailed with many in drawing them to repentance; and although the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> doe labour to &s;uppre&s;&s;e and darken the light of it, yet God in mercie doth &s;till keepe it open, and cau&s;eth it to &s;hine, whereby many are gathered into the more pure part of the vi&s;ible Church, to their eternall &s;alvation.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>The Church of Rome hath the Go&s;pell of Chri&s;t as well as your Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>But your Church keepes it &s;hut from &s;uch as you and I am; wee mu&s;t tru&s;t them with our &s;alvation; wee mu&s;t not
<PB N="95" REF="55"> looke into the Go&s;pell of Chri&s;t for it; is not this a pittifull ca&s;e?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, what haue you further to &s;ay of the vi&s;ible Church; if you haue any thing further to &s;ay, &s;peake on, that we may proceede to conferre of other things.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;aid that when I had &s;hewed the Creation and corrup|tion of all things, I would &s;hew the de&s;truction of them: and in this I will be briefe. Fir&s;t therefore I &s;ay againe, that corrup|tion doth goe before de&s;truction, and corruption is the cau&s;e of de&s;truction, we may &s;ee by our owne experience, that mans body being corrupted by di&s;ea&s;es, bringeth forth death, which de&s;troyeth the body. This corruption groweth for want of due proportion, the want of which, is cau&s;ed by defect or want of that which &s;hould be, or by exce&s;&s;e of that, which &s;hould not be: and this di&s;temper, hath God laid vpon mens bodies for their &s;inne; the whole cour&s;e of nature, as you haue heard, is corrupted in the law of working, by Gods judgement for mans &s;inne, and therefore at the day of Iudgement mu&s;t be de&s;troyed, as appeareth by the Apo&s;tle <HI>Peter.</HI> 2 <HI>Pet.</HI> 3.7.<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Pet.</HI> 2.3.7.</NOTE> <HI>The heavens and earth which are now, are kept by the &s;ame Word in &s;tore; and re&s;erved vnto fire, again&s;t that day of condemnation, and de&s;tru|ction of vngodly men.</HI> And in the 10. ver&s;e,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ver&s;. 10.</NOTE> he &s;heweth that this de&s;truction &s;hall be vnexpected; for he &s;aith, <HI>but the day of the Lord will come as a theefe in the night, in the which the heavens &s;hall pa&s;&s;e away with a noy&s;e, and the elements &s;hall melt with heate, and the earth, with the workes that are therein, &s;hall be burnt vp.</HI> And the Apo&s;tle by way of exhortation in the 11. and 12.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ver&s;. 11.12.</NOTE> ver|&s;es, &s;aith to the vi&s;ible Church, <HI>Seeing therefore that all the&s;e things mu&s;t be di&s;&s;olved, What manner of per&s;ons ought yee to be in holy conver&s;ation and godline&s;&s;e, looking for, and ha&s;tning vnto the comming of the day of God, by the which the heavens being on fire, &s;hall be di&s;&s;olved, and the elements &s;hall melt with heate?</HI> And thus you &s;ee that the whole world of Gods crea|tures mu&s;t be de&s;troyed; all wicked men both in the vi&s;ible Church, and out of it, mu&s;t be de&s;troyed, the obedient and meeke &s;heepe of Chri&s;t, mu&s;t goe on his right hand to be ble&s;|&s;ed for evermore, and the &s;turdy goats on his left hand, to vn|dergoe
<PB N="96" REF="56"> his cur&s;e and wrath for evermore; therefore happy are they, which again&s;t that day, haue wrought out their &s;alvation with feare and trembling: and again&s;t that day haue made their calling and election &s;ure vnto them&s;elues, and then they will lift vp their heads with joy. Thus you may perceiue, that the vi&s;ible Church at this great day of de&s;truction, &s;hall haue an end; nay, the inke, paper, and parchment of the Word of God mu&s;t be de&s;troyed with fire, but the Word of God en|dureth for ever.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>It is time now that we come to conferre vpon the markes of the Church, which we doe hold as infaileable to the vi&s;ible Church, whereby it may be knowne.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I pray you, Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> giue me leaue a little, to &s;ay &s;omewhat more of the vi&s;ible Church, to &s;hew you not onely that it may, and hath erred, which alreadie I haue proved, but the way whereby it hath erred, and is po&s;&s;ible to erre, if it be not guided with the &s;pirit of God. The Word of God is for e|ver mo&s;t pure,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;al. 12.6.</NOTE> and therefore cannot be corrupted by any de|vill, or devili&s;h men: but the Church may be corrupt two wayes: The fir&s;t, by fal&s;ed explications, in delivering a fal&s;e &s;ence of &s;ome part of the Scriptures, &amp; making that fal&s;e &s;ence to be a Rule and Law of working for the vi&s;ible Church. The other way is, by making the Word written to be imper|fect, by adding a &s;upply of the imperfection thereof by the Churches traditions. And the&s;e two wayes the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> doth erre mo&s;t gro&s;ly, as hereafter, God-willing, &s;hall be declared in our further Conference. But I will no longer hin|der you, from &s;hewing me the markes of the Church, which your Church holdes infaileable; come, I pray you let me heare them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I pray Seniour</HI> George, <HI>faile not &s;eriou&s;ly to ob&s;erue them; for they be &s;uch as will not deceiue you, but will directly point out vnto you the pure vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t, to which if you &s;ubmit your &s;elfe, you may expect &s;alvation.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Well, Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> let me heare them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>They be the&s;e:</HI> 1. <HI>Succe&s;&s;ion;</HI> 2. <HI>Antiquitie;</HI> 3. <HI>Multitude;</HI> 4. <HI>Miracles;</HI> 5. <HI>&V;i&s;ibilitie;</HI> 6. <HI>&V;nitie;</HI> 7. <HI>Holy;</HI> 8. <HI>Catholicke.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="97" REF="56">
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> if it plea&s;e you we will try by your markes which is the purer Church, yours of <HI>Rome,</HI> or ours of great <HI>Brittaine.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am very well contented, and if you will, wee will begin with your Church: and fir&s;t, for Succe&s;&s;ion; by this marke, you are no Church, for your Church hath beene but &s;ince Luthers dayes, which I take it is not &s;o much as</HI> 200. <HI>yeares; but our Church &s;ucceeded the Apo&s;tles liueally from Bi&s;hop to Bi&s;hop, e&s;pecially, S. Peter in his Bi&s;hopricke and &s;eate of Rome.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I pray you, Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> is this &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of place and per&s;on, a ground of your faith and Religion, whereby you looke to attaine everla&s;ting life?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Yes &s;urely, it is a principall ground of our faith and Religi|on.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then I am very &s;orry for you, that you build your faith and &s;alvation, vpon &s;o vn&s;ound, &s;o vncertaine, and &s;o erroni|ous a ground.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, what &s;ay you to &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, doe you vtterly deny that?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>No, &s;urely, &s;o as there be not wanting &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of &s;ound and vncorrupted doctrine. And if you will giue me leaue, I will &s;hew you our foundation, vpon which we build our faith and &s;alvation; and next, I will &s;hew you our &s;ucce&s;&s;ion.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I warrant you will &s;hew me a goodly foundation: how can you &s;hew a foundation, or a Church of God to build vpon that foundation, &s;eeing you want builders; for your builders are but counterfeit, for they cannot &s;hew their lawfull ordination, and &s;ending, whereby they haue power to build; for the Apo&s;tle &s;aith,</HI> None can Preach,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 8.</NOTE> ex|cept he be &s;ent.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Well, Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> harken what I &s;hall &s;ay in defence of our Church of great <HI>Brittaine;</HI> and if you will rea&s;on with mildne&s;&s;e, like a good Chri&s;tian, though you be very igno|rant, yet if your errours be but a mi&s;conceit in your judge|ment, and are not yet growen into your will of peruer&s;ne&s;&s;e, then I hope all partiall affections will be laid a&s;ide by you, and you will giue heede vnto the truth, you &s;hall heare: but if your partiall re&s;pect to the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> be &s;uch, that you will not giue heede vnto the truth when you heare it, then it
<PB N="98" REF="57"> will be better to giue over our Conference. What &s;ay you; will you heare with a meeke mind?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, I will heare you till you be weary, as I haue before pro|mi&s;ed you.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then thus I begin, when man had vtterly lo&s;t his life of holines by &s;inne, and by it expo&s;ed him&s;elfe to all mi&s;eries both corporall and &s;pirituall, temporall and eternall; the mighty and gracious God, out of his infinite goodnes and mer|cy, laid a &s;upernaturall foundation and ground, whereupon, to build a &s;pirituall and &s;upernaturall hou&s;e, for his owne &s;pe|ciall habitation, which is the Church of his elect: and this foundation, was layd before he called labourers to build his elect vpon it. I de&s;ire therefore to take the &s;ame cour&s;e in rea|&s;oning with you: all men of di&s;cretion you know, when they goe about to build a hou&s;e, will fir&s;t be a&s;&s;ured the ground is &s;trong, firme and &s;ure, and then will get labourers and arti|ficers to build it vp; this therefore is my de&s;ire, to &s;hew you the foundation and ground of the Church, before I come to the Church, or builders thereof.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, proceed, what is the ground of the Church, whereupon it is built, and which a man mu&s;t re&s;t his &s;oule on for ever?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer: that the foundation and ground of the Church of Gods elect, is the promi&s;e of God, and the matter promi|&s;ed,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 3.15.</NOTE> which is, <HI>the &s;eede of the woman, &s;hall breake the &s;erpents bead:</HI> this is that foundation, on which the Church hath beene built in all the ages of the world. I thinke I &s;hall not neede to proue, that this &s;eede of the woman, is Ie&s;us Chri&s;t our Sa|viour, for I &s;uppo&s;e that the weake&s;t Chri&s;tian doth know it; but this I de&s;ire to proue, that the Church hath no other foun|dation, and that this foundation, is the alone foundation, and that there is none other, whereupon the Church &s;hould be builded,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 3.11.</NOTE> and this by the fir&s;t to the <HI>Corin.</HI> 3.16. is manife&s;t, in the&s;e words, <HI>for other foundation can no man lay, then that which is laid, which is Ie&s;us Chri&s;t;</HI> and that Chri&s;t is the foun|dation of the Church, looke the&s;e places. <HI>Mat.</HI> 16.18. and 21.24. <HI>Acts.</HI> 4.11. and many moe: vpon this foundation, the Church of old, in the time of nature, was built even when,
<PB N="99" REF="57"> and before the word of God was written, for God reveiled this foundation to <HI>Adam,</HI> by word of mouth, and renewed the &s;ame to the 12. <HI>Patriarkes,</HI> by tradition for the &s;pace of 2400 yeares: vnto the time of <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> the liues of men in the <HI>Patriarkes</HI> times, were long, and their memories &s;erved as bookes, to record this foundation, and therefore when the liues of men were &s;hortened by &s;inne, it plea&s;ed God to v&s;e in mer|cy to his Church, meanes more durable; and therefore in <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> time, committed the foundation, and doctrine of the Church to writing: therefore our Saviour Chri&s;t &s;ayth now, <HI>Search the Scriptures, for in them, you thinke to haue eternall life, for they te&s;tifie of me:</HI> So that if ever we will finde the founda|tion, and the doctrine, to build the Church vpon this founda|tion, we mu&s;t looke into the &s;criptures for all, or el&s;e, we &s;hall never but goe a&s;tray; therefore the Apo&s;tle &s;ayth,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 2.<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">0.</NOTE> <HI>Yee are built vpon the foundation of the Apo&s;tles and Prophets, Ie&s;us Chri&s;t him|&s;elfe, being the chiefe corner &s;tone.</HI> This is the foundation vpon which our Church of great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> doth build the &s;oules of men vnto heaven I hope you dare not &s;ay this is an errour, and a fal&s;e foundation.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>No I will not &s;ay, it is an errour, and fal&s;e foundation, but this is your errour, that you will not admit an other foundation, though Chri&s;t him&s;elfe, hath layd one in the&s;e words,</HI> vpon thee <HI>Peter,</HI> will I build my Church, <HI>but this I will further proue anone.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I haue &s;hewed you in <HI>Paul</HI> to the <HI>Corinthians,</HI> plaine de|niall of any other foundation of the Church; and therefore that place of our Saviour to <HI>Peter,</HI> mu&s;t be vnder&s;tood of the obiect of <HI>Peters</HI> faith, which is Chri&s;t him&s;elfe, as the cohe|rence of the place doth evidently declare. And when you in|devour further to proue your fal&s;e foundation, you &s;hall haue further an&s;were; in the meane time, con&s;ider I doe earne&s;tly de&s;ire you, as you tender your owne &s;alvation, and intreat you to ground your faith, and &s;alvation, vpon this mo&s;t holy and &s;trong fundation. All other foundations that the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> hath laid, are all but fal&s;e foundations and will de|ceiue you.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well Seniour</HI> George, <HI>tell me now the head of the Catholike
<PB N="100" REF="58"> Church, and declare that vnto me al&s;o.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that Ie&s;us Chri&s;t our Saviour, is al&s;o the alone head of the Catholike Church, for he is not onely the &s;trong and powerfull ground and foundation of the Church, to vp|hold it, that it &s;inke not into the &s;ea of Gods wrath, to its con|fu&s;ion for ever, but hee is al&s;o the head and husband of the Church, who wi&s;ely governes his Spowes the Church, and that he is the head of the Church, &s;ee what the Apo&s;tle &s;aith to the Ephe&s;ians,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 1.10.</NOTE> <HI>and hath made all things &s;ubiect vnder his feete, and hath given him over all things, to be the head to the Church, which is his body;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Chap. 5.</NOTE> and he &s;ayth further, in the 5. Chap. <HI>For the husband is the wiues head, even as Chri&s;t is the head of the Church, and the &s;ame is the Saviour of his body,</HI> and to the <HI>Colo&s;.</HI> he &s;aith,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Col. 2.10.19.</NOTE> <HI>and yee are complete in him, which is the head of all prin|cipallitie and power,</HI> and he is the ma&s;ter of the Church, Chri&s;t Ie&s;us our Saviour is the e&s;&s;entiall word and wi&s;edome of the Father,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 10.25.</NOTE> and therefore wi&s;ely di&s;po&s;eth the building of the Church, vpon the foundation, which is him&s;elfe: wee know by naturall rea&s;on, that though the &s;oule of the body of man, is the life of every part, yet the &s;eate of rea&s;on, wi&s;edome, and vnder&s;tanding is in the head, even &s;o the &s;oule of the Church, is the &s;pirit of God, which &s;pirit doth knit vs the members of the Church, vnto our head Chri&s;t, yet the &s;eat of the wi&s;e|dome of the Church, is in the head, which head, is anoynted with oyle of wi&s;edome, and gladnes aboue his fellowes, and of his fulnes, doth the Church receiue grace for grace, and the &s;everall members by him are made wi&s;e vnto &s;alvation, this is indeede and in truth, the head of the Catholike Church, and vnder this head, doth our Church of great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> pro|fe&s;&s;e the Catholike faith, and our particular Church of great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> doth acknowledge no other Catholike head of the vniver&s;all Church; wee acknowledge our Soveraigne King CHARLES, to be &s;upreame governour, of all cau&s;es Eccle|&s;ia&s;ticall and civile, in his dominions, next and immediately vnder Chri&s;t; but we doe not acknowledge him to be the &s;u|preame of the Catholike Church, neither will he be &s;o impi|ous, to take this title vpon him; that title which he doth iu&s;t|ly
<PB N="101" REF="58"> take vpon him, and wee doe a&s;cribe vnto him, is the gracious ordinance of God, for <HI>E&s;ay</HI> prophe&s;ied that <HI>Kings &s;hould be nur&s;ing Fathers, and Queenes &s;hould be nur&s;ing Mothers,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">I&s;ay. 49.</NOTE> even to the Churches of the Gentiles. The fir&s;t king that go|verned the Common-wealth, and Church of <HI>I&s;rael,</HI> was <HI>Saul,</HI> his name as &s;ayth the learned, &s;ignifieth de&s;ired, for the peo|ple being weary of the government of God,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Sam. 8.7.</NOTE> de&s;ired to haue a king to governe them, and God granted them their de&s;ire, and gaue them <HI>Saul</HI> to be their king; and after <HI>Saul, David,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Sam. 16.17.</NOTE> and then <HI>Salomon,</HI> and the re&s;t lineally after him, till the <HI>Ro|mans</HI> by Gods iu&s;t iudgement, for the &s;innes of the <HI>Iewi&s;h</HI> Church, did conquer them, and then the &s;cepter was taken a|way from the Tribe of <HI>Iuda,</HI> which was the Kings Tribe, but remained &s;till with the <HI>Sanedrin</HI> of the <HI>Iewes,</HI> but when the prophe&s;ie of <HI>Iacob</HI> was fulfilled, which was,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 49.10.</NOTE> that <HI>Shilo &s;hould come,</HI> which <HI>Shilo</HI> was <HI>Chri&s;t,</HI> then did the <HI>Romanes</HI> take away the &s;cepter from <HI>Iuda,</HI> and not before: now I &s;ay that <HI>Saul</HI> the fir&s;t king, was not of the Tribe of <HI>Iuda,</HI> becau&s;e he was de&s;i|red of the people, but <HI>David</HI> being cho&s;en of God for their king, hee was of the Tribe of <HI>Iuda,</HI> of who&s;e &s;eede lineally Chri&s;t came: now you &s;ee that kings are the ordinance of God: &s;ee what the head and foundation of your Church &s;aith, which is <HI>Peter</HI> the Apo&s;tle,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Pet. 2.13.</NOTE> <HI>Submit your &s;elues vnto every ordinance of man for the Lords &s;ake, whether it be vnto the King, as vnto the &s;uperiour,</HI> heare what the Apo&s;tle <HI>Peter</HI> &s;aith, <HI>he calleth the king the &s;uperiour,</HI> but your Pope will be &s;upreame aboue him, and he &s;aith further, <HI>and vnto Governours, as vnto them that are &s;ent of him, for the puni&s;hment of evill doers, and for the pray&s;e of them that doe well:</HI> and &s;ee their power confirmed by the Apo&s;tle <HI>Paul</HI> in the&s;e words,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 13.1.2.3.4.5.</NOTE> <HI>Let every &s;oule be &s;ubiect to the higher pow|ers,</HI> the&s;e powers are the Magi&s;trates, <HI>and they are ordained of God,</HI> and there mu&s;t be &s;ubiection to them, <HI>for con&s;cience &s;ake:</HI> Let your Pope and Prie&s;tes, and People, looke to this ordi|nance of God, but your Pope e&s;pecially makes no con&s;cience of this ordinance of God, but &s;hewes him&s;elfe as king of kings: now further what &s;aith our Saviour Chri&s;t, for the con|firmation of the power of kings, &s;aith he, <HI>giue vnto Cae&s;ar, the
<PB N="102" REF="59"> thing that is Cae&s;ars.</HI> Thus you &s;ee what we attribute vnto our king, which is a &s;uperioritie of governement in his owne do|minions, and not over the whole Catholike Church: but to the head and foundation of the Church, I &s;ay againe vnto you Seniour <HI>Phillip,</HI> and to all priuate men what&s;oever, by way of admonition, that you looke mo&s;t carefully to the head and foundation of your &s;oules: for it is a dangerous matter in this to be deceived; for the building of your &s;oules, mu&s;t be an&s;werable to the foundation, and that mu&s;t be by &s;ound, pure, and whole&s;ome doctrine: let me &s;hew you a little re&s;emblance; A man that buildeth an hou&s;e, and &s;etteth it partly, vpon a firme and &s;trong foundation, and partly, vpon an vnfirme, &s;an|die, and vn&s;ound foundation, that vn&s;ound foundation, being not &s;trong to beare vp the building, will be an occa&s;ion of the fall, and ruine of the whole frame: whereas if the builders had built the hou&s;e vpon the &s;trong foundation onely, though they had not builded it &s;o cunningly as they &s;hould, yet there is hope the hou&s;e would &s;tand, by rea&s;on of the &s;trong foun|dation; and that part of the vnskilfull building, by better ad|vi&s;e might be mended: now to apply this to our pre&s;ent pur|po&s;e; your Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> doth build, as they pretend your &s;oules to God, and they doe lay a foundation; this foundati|on, is partly <HI>Chri&s;t,</HI> and partly <HI>Peter,</HI> and his &s;uppo&s;ed &s;ucce&s;|&s;ors the Popes. Now I &s;ay the latter part of their foundation is erroneous and vn&s;ound, and will proue the vtter de&s;tructi|on of your &s;oules for ever; for Chri&s;t will be the whole foun|dation, or none at all, and therefore build not your &s;oules vp|on &s;uch deceitfull foundations; as the&s;e, that <HI>Peter</HI> had a &s;o|veraignty over the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles. 2. That hee was a particular Bi&s;hop. 3. That he was Bi&s;hop of <HI>Rome.</HI> 4. That he had his &s;eate at <HI>Rome</HI> 25. yeares. 5. That the Pope that now is, is <HI>Peters</HI> &s;ucce&s;&s;or, and 6. That the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> cannot erre, nor the Pope in his con&s;i&s;tory. I tell you Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> the&s;e be &s;uch rotten foundations, and &s;o erroneous, or vn|certaine, that the relying vpon them, will rather bring you to eternall confu&s;ion, then to everla&s;ting &s;alvation and bli&s;&s;e for <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">vermore. I haue &s;hewed you in the <HI>Corinthians,</HI> that other
<PB N="103" REF="59"> foundation can no man lay, then that which is layd, which is Ie&s;us Chri&s;t. If the builders vpon this foundation, be vnwi&s;e, by building vpon it fal&s;e doctrine, which is likened to &s;traw or &s;tubble, this manner of building, &s;hall not alwayes deceiue, but the light of the truth at length, appearing as day, &s;hall di&s;|&s;olue this darke doctrine, and &s;hew what it is, &s;o that it &s;hall not &s;tand vpon this pure foundation, which is Chri&s;t; yet &s;o long as this gratious foundation which is Chri&s;t is mainetai|ned intire, there is hope of &s;alvation vpon repentance: for their fal&s;e building, it &s;hall be burnt away with the fire of Gods truth.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well Seniour</HI> George, <HI>it is now time to conferre vpon our markes of the vi&s;ible Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I am contented that now we begin to examine them, but I mu&s;t tell you, we &s;hall now &s;pend our conference mo&s;t vp|on controver&s;ies, depending betweene your Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> and ours of Great <HI>Brittany.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And I mu&s;t tell you Seniour</HI> George, <HI>that there is no part of the vi&s;ible Church, that doth contend with the Church of</HI> Rome <HI>in contrarying her doctrine, and oppo&s;ing again&s;t her, but they are hereticall, and &s;chi&s;maticall Churches; and therefore I feare you will &s;hew your &s;elfe an heretike if you contradict the doctrine of our Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>You make me remember a thing done in my Fathers hou&s;e, when I was a little boy: there was a Plow-man of my Fathers, who being a good husband, had by his thrift got a &s;tocke of money, and in a Winter evening received 3. pound of one of his debtors, and told it by the Kitchin fire, before his fellowes: and one of them a wicked fellow, covetous of his money, vpon a &s;udden went out of the Kitchin, as if he went to bed; but indeede, went and &s;tood behind the &s;table doore, with his hatchet in his hand, prepared ready again&s;t hee that had the money &s;hould come to bed, who lay over his hor&s;es, and when he came to bed, he &s;trucke his fellow on the head with his hatchet, and dazeled him, and he that was &s;trucken, laid his hand vpon his head, and the theevi&s;h fellow &s;trucke againe with his hatchet, and hit his fellow that had the money,
<PB N="104" REF="60"> on the backe of the hand, the Plow-man being thus vilely &s;trucken, cryed out &s;o, that the whole hou&s;e-hold came out to helpe him, and the doggs came out running before them, &s;o that the theevi&s;h fellow was prevented of his purpo&s;e, and was inforced to flee from him, whom hee had thus treache|rou&s;ly &s;trucken, and being out of &s;ight of the whole hou&s;e|hold, runneth with the doggs deceitfully, as if he had &s;et them on the theefe: but indeede him&s;elfe was the cheefe, as was after|wards well proved; even &s;o it is with your Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> all vi&s;ible parts of the Church, that haue purged and refor|med them&s;elues, from the dro&s;&s;e and filth of your corrupti|ons, you tearme them &s;chi&s;matikes, and hereticall Churches- when in truth, the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> her-&s;elfe, is the mo&s;t no|torious hereticall, and &s;chi&s;maticall Church in the world: but why are tho&s;e parts of the vi&s;ible Church hereticall? even for&s;ooth, becau&s;e they will not acknowledge the Popes tyran|ny, and arrogancie over the Catholike Church, which by their report, is the principall Article, we mu&s;t beleeue, if we will be &s;aved, and againe, becau&s;e we reiect Images: and becau&s;e, wee wor&s;hip not the bread in the Communion: and becau&s;e, wee communicate vnder both kindes: and becau&s;e, the Prie&s;tes with vs are married: and becau&s;e, wee know not what Purgatory is, nor alow of it: the&s;e and ma|ny more of your here&s;ies, becau&s;e we alow them not, but ab|horre them, becau&s;e they are contrary doctrines to Gods truth, therefore all the reformed Churches, are Churches of here|tikes, and your Pope doth &s;et his Prie&s;ts, and Ie&s;uites, to barke at the true reformed Churches, as if they were theeues, and robbers, that come in at the window, rather to fleece the flocke of Chri&s;t, then to feede them with whole &s;ome foode of Gods truth, when indeede they them&s;elues, are the &s;tarvers, fleecers, and &s;troyers of the flockes of Chri&s;t Ie&s;us.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, well, you &s;till wrong the Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>for &s;hee is the true ancient Church, and holds the ancient faith, and if you can, &s;hew me the errour, the Authour of the errour, and the time, when &s;uch errour was brought into the Church, and if you cannot, you are a vile fellow, in thus condemning the Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>for an he|reticall Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="105" REF="60">
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Is not he a &s;trange fooli&s;h man, that his hou&s;e being on fire, and his neighbour telling him of it, will driue his neigh|bour to proue how it came on fire; hee &s;hould rather thanke his neighbour, and intreate him to helpe to put it out, then to driue him to proue, by what man, and at what time, it came on fire; nay, your Pope &s;hould doe, as cleanely hou&s;ewiues doe, who when their hou&s;es are foule, doe not inquire how they came foule, but will &s;et their &s;ervants a worke, and put their owne helping hand al&s;o to the clean&s;ing of them: but your Pope and Prie&s;ts, will rather defile the Church of Chri&s;t, with their filthy feete of their affections, by bringing in more vile &s;uper&s;titions, then clean&s;e it of any.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, proue the errour, the Authour, and the time of the er|rour, or el&s;e you proue nothing, and what you &s;ay, is idle and vaine.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Well, I will &s;hew &s;ome of your errours, the Authours of the errours, and about what time, they were brought into the Church, and by the&s;e few, you may perceiue, how the re&s;t came into the Church, by the pride and covetou&s;nes of your Popes. <HI>The &s;onnes of Zebedees children,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 10.42.</NOTE> &s;ued to Chri&s;t for the greate&s;t roomes of honour in his kingdome, Chri&s;t an&s;wers them, yee know that the Lords of the Gentiles haue dominion, an<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> they that are great, exerci&s;e authoritie over them, but it &s;hall not be &s;o with you; what &s;aith Saint <HI>Ber|nard</HI> vpon thi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> place to Pope <HI>Eugenius,</HI> it is plaine &s;aith he, that here dominion is forbidden; and what &s;aith your owne Pope <HI>Gregory</HI> the great, if one be called vniver&s;all Bi&s;hop, the vni|ver&s;all Church goeth to decay: and yet doth your Pope v&s;urpe an vniver&s;all dominion directly, again&s;t the plaine prohibiti|on of our Saviour Chri&s;t, and the iudgement of the&s;e two Fathers: the one whereof, being Pope, did oppo&s;e <HI>Iohn</HI> Bi|&s;hop of <HI>Con&s;tantinople,</HI> which laboured for the vniver&s;all &s;u|premacy, which afterward <HI>Boniface</HI> the 3. Bi&s;hop and Pope of <HI>Rome,</HI> ambitiou&s;ly obtained, about the yeare of our Lord and Saviour Chri&s;t, 6<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">7. and of whom did he obtaine it, but of <HI>Phocas</HI> the Emperour, who as &s;tories record, was a mur|therer of his Lord and Ma&s;ter: And this is the fir&s;t error, that I note now of your Church, with the Authours, and the time
<PB N="106" REF="61"> of it. Gods commandement is, that no Images be made for &s;uper&s;titious v&s;e,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod 20.</NOTE> and that <HI>none &s;hould bow downe to them, nor wor&s;hip them:</HI> and yet <HI>Adrian</HI> Pope of <HI>Rome,</HI> prevailed with <HI>Con&s;tantine</HI> the Emperour, and his mother <HI>Irene,</HI> to hold a Councel at <HI>Nice,</HI> which yet was not the antient and fir&s;t Coun|cell of <HI>Nice,</HI> in which Councell, was decreed the retaining, making, having, &s;etting vp, and wor&s;hipping of Images, and to &s;alute them in the name of the Lord; was not this gro&s;&s;e Idolatry thinke you? This was about the yeere of Chri&s;t, 733. and here you haue the Authours, and time of this gro&s;&s;e er|rour. The Leviticall prie&s;ts were married, and &s;o were &s;ome of the Apo&s;tles, and <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith, <HI>Let a Bi&s;hop be the husband of one wife:</HI> he &s;aith, <HI>to avoid fornication, let every man take his owne wife:</HI> and yet contrary to Gods word, and the practi&s;e of god|ly pa&s;tors, Pope <HI>Silve&s;ter</HI> the fir&s;t, for bad Sub-deacons to mar|ry, and this was about the yeere of our Lord, 315. and Pope <HI>Dama&s;us</HI> about the yeere 369. decreed that no Clergie man, &s;hould haue knowledge of his wife, becau&s;e it is written, <HI>tho&s;e that are in the fle&s;h cannot plea&s;e God:</HI> and <HI>Gregory</HI> the 7. about the yeere 1070. in a Councell at <HI>Rome,</HI> forbiddeth the Cler|gie, Prie&s;ts, Bi&s;hops or Deacons, to marry, vnder paine of the great cur&s;e, this doctrine is plaine the doctrine of Devils, as <HI>Paul</HI> &s;ayth. About the yeere 492. Pope <HI>Gela&s;ius,</HI> began to be Pope, in who&s;e time, &s;ome would haue brought in the Com|munion of the Lords &s;upper but in one kind, but this <HI>Gela&s;ius</HI> writeth again&s;t &s;uch; I know not by what &s;uper&s;tition they are taught to be thralled, who taking the portion of the holy bodie only, doe ab&s;taine from the cup of the hallowed bloud: either &s;aith hee, let them receiue the whole &s;acraments, or be put from the whole, for &s;uch divi&s;ion of the &s;acrament, can not, without great &s;acriledge be committed: and yet the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> doth take from the people, the communion of the bloud of Chri&s;t, and hath prohibited their participati|on therein, by a &s;olemne decree, ma<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">e in the Councell of <HI>Con&s;tance:</HI> contrary to the commandement of our Saviour Chri&s;t, who commandeth, <HI>Drinke ye all of this,</HI> as well as, <HI>eate yee all of this.</HI> Pope <HI>Symmachus,</HI> began his regency the yeere
<PB N="107" REF="61"> of our Lord, 500. and in his time (if the decree at lea&s;t be his) he decreed, that the Pope is &s;ubiect to none, but God, and yet Saint <HI>Peter</HI> &s;aith, <HI>Men &s;hould &s;ubmit to every ardinance of man, for the Lords &s;ake, whether it be vnto the king, as vnto the &s;uperi|our. Pelagius</HI> the fir&s;t, was the fir&s;t that brought into the Ma&s;&s;e, prayer for the dead, 555. out of a &s;hort hi&s;tory, of your Popes, collected by a learned divine of ours, I had the&s;e errors, and might thence haue &s;hewed you, the beginnings of many more, with the Authours of them; but the&s;e &s;hall &s;uffice to the wi&s;e Chri&s;tian, to take heede of &s;educement by any, to &s;ub|mit vnto that Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, come Seniour</HI> George, <HI>let vs come now to our markes of the vi&s;ible Church, and fir&s;t for &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, &s;hew me the iudge|ment and practi&s;e of your Church, touching this marke; and then I will &s;hew you the iudgement and practi&s;e of our Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>I doe thinke you cannot proue your Church, to be a vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t, by this marke.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>God willing, by this marke, I will proue our Church, to be a pure part of Chri&s;ts vi&s;ible Church, which I &s;hall the better proue, if I &s;hew you the &s;ucce&s;&s;io~ of the vi&s;ible Church, even from the beginning of the world, which I will doe ac|cording to my poore vnder&s;tanding and reading, and that I hope according to the Analogie of faith reveiled in the &s;crip|tures, and the mini&s;tery of the word of faith in this Church, wherein I haue beene bred all my dayes. I doe hold it a truth, that ever &s;ince the world was created and fini&s;hed, there was a vi&s;ible or &s;en&s;ible knowne Church: the Church was once in innocencie, in the loynes of <HI>Adam</HI> and <HI>Eue,</HI> and though <HI>Adam</HI> by eating the forbidden fruit, made him&s;elfe, and his po&s;terity, no Church of God, yet before God did giue &s;entence again&s;t them, hee laid the foundation of the Church in the promi&s;e, <HI>that the &s;eede of the woman &s;hould breake the Serpents head:</HI> and this promi&s;e was made &s;encible to <HI>Adams</HI> vnder|&s;tanding, though he and <HI>Eue</HI> had not grace of faith, to build their &s;oules vpon it, till God had given &s;entence of guiltines, and condemnation vpon them: I &s;ay then that Chri&s;t the pro|mi&s;ed &s;eede of the woman, for in him the &s;econd per&s;on in the
<PB REF="62"> Trinitie, a&s;&s;umed our nature, &s;o that tho&s;e two natures, were yet but one per&s;on, is the foundation of the vi&s;ible Church: but how is he the foundation of the vi&s;ible Church? Not as he is the foundation of Gods elect; he is the foundation of the vi&s;ible Church, by externall profe&s;&s;ion, and externall mini|&s;tery, whereby they do outwardly acknowledge, and outward|ly proclaime him to bee the head, and foundation of the Church: for even tho&s;e that haue not &s;aving and &s;anctifying grace, yet may conceiue and beleeue Chri&s;t to be the <HI>Me&s;&s;ias,</HI> who &s;hould reconcile men vnto God, and they may conceiue and beleeue him to be God, becau&s;e God, who in nature is infinite, and is infinitely offended, is to be appea&s;ed al&s;o, by &s;uch a nature as is infinite, as al&s;o they may conceiue and be|leeue that man having offended God, mu&s;t make &s;atisfaction, which no man nor Angell could doe, but the man Chri&s;t Ie|&s;us, being perfect God and perfect man. And this foundation God layd, before he called <HI>Adam,</HI> either externally to be a pa&s;t|or, or builder of the &s;oules of others vpon this foundation, yea or before hee called him by an effectuall calling, to build his owne &s;oule vpon this foundation by faith; &s;o that God him|&s;elfe immediately did preach Chri&s;t vnto <HI>Adam,</HI> and by his preaching, did call <HI>Adam</HI> by an effectuall calling, and gaue him faith to build his &s;oule vpon Chri&s;t the foundation: hee made him al&s;o a Prie&s;t, to <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">le&s;&s;e the people, proceeding from his loynes, and to offer &s;acrifices for him&s;elfe and the people. He was al&s;o a King to governe them, and a Prophet to teach them: now that <HI>Adam</HI> was a prie&s;t, I thinke wee neede not doubt, for the which I alledge this rea&s;on; fir&s;t, <HI>Adam</HI> and <HI>Eue</HI> having &s;inned, they were both a&s;hamed, and God clothed them with skins of bea&s;ts, to &s;hew them their bea&s;tlines; now the bodies of tho&s;e bea&s;ts (it may be thought) were for <HI>Adam</HI> to offer in &s;acrifice, and that by them God caught him a law, and v&s;e of &s;acrifice: for it is not likely, that God would de|&s;troy bea&s;ts, to haue them &s;poyled; and it may &s;eeme that <HI>A|dam</HI> had not libertie yet to eate any; and we &s;ee, that <HI>Caine</HI> and <HI>Abell</HI> offered &s;acrifices, as being taught by their father <HI>Adam.</HI> The&s;e &s;acrifices were types, and figures of Chri&s;t to come, who
<PB N="109" REF="62"> &s;hould be &s;laine, and offered as an eternall &s;acrifice, well plea|&s;ing vnto God for the &s;innes of the world: now as God gaue <HI>Adam</HI> a law of &s;acrifices, &s;o al&s;o hee gaue him a law of faith, and obedience, which law of faith and obedience, is the very &s;ame law of faith, and religious obedience, which we in the Church of great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> doe profe&s;&s;e with them, as you &s;hall heare anone. Now I &s;ay, <HI>Adam</HI> was the fir&s;t builder of the &s;oules of men vpon the foundation, which God in his infinite goodnes, mercie, and power had laid: and he built them by that law and rule, faith and doctrine, which God had taught him, and this faith, doctrine, and law of working, is in&s;epe|rably ioyned to tho&s;e builders, whom God doth &s;end; and therefore none mu&s;t &s;eperate tho&s;e whom God hath joyned: and therefore I marveile, that the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> doe make &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Pa&s;tors, to be a marke of the Church of God, without &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of doctrine.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But I pray tell me, who were</HI> Adams <HI>&s;ucce&s;&s;ors in his prie&s;t|hood.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer; they were the fir&s;t borne of every familie, to whom it may &s;eeme, that the re&s;t brought the Tithes, offe|rings, and &s;acrifices, that were due vnto the Lord, which &s;ome confirme al&s;o from the example of <HI>Abraham,</HI> who gaue tithes vnto <HI>Melchi&s;edech,</HI> the fir&s;t borne of that familie, whereof <HI>A|braham</HI> came; if <HI>Melchi&s;edech</HI> at lea&s;t was <HI>Sem,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 7.2.</NOTE> the &s;econd &s;onne of <HI>Noah,</HI> as divers Divines of great note haue held, and had the prerogatiue of the fir&s;t borne by Gods providence; <HI>Abraham</HI> him&s;elfe was a prie&s;t, by rea&s;on hee had a devided familie of his owne; but <HI>Melchi&s;edech</HI> was a greater prie&s;t,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ver&s;. 6.9.</NOTE> and ten degrees before him, and therefore <HI>Abraham</HI> gaue tithes vnto <HI>Melchi&s;edech,</HI> and he did ble&s;&s;e (according to his office of prie&s;thood) <HI>Abraham:</HI> the authour to the <HI>Hebrewes,</HI> &s;ayth, <HI>without all contradiction, the le&s;&s;e is ble&s;&s;ed of the greater. Iacob</HI> vowed to giue tithes vnto the Lord, and it is probable, that he performed his vow, and gaue it into the hands of <HI>I&s;aack,</HI> who was his father, and fir&s;t borne,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 28.2<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">.</NOTE> and prie&s;t at that time by Gods &s;pecial prerogatiue given vnto him: &s;o that from hence, I gather that <HI>Adams</HI> two &s;onnes, <HI>Caine</HI> and <HI>Abell,</HI> brought
<PB REF="63"> their &s;acrifices to <HI>Adam</HI> their father, and high prie&s;t to offer vnto God: but how&s;oever that were, this is certaine, that as from <HI>Adam,</HI> they had beene taught to &s;acrifice, &s;o they &s;acri|ficed; and that cour&s;e and order continued &s;ucce&s;&s;iuely, till the time of the Law, and the prie&s;thood of <HI>Levie.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But name his &s;ucce&s;&s;ors, and &s;hew what law the&s;e fir&s;t borne Prie&s;ts had to build the Church vpon the promi&s;ed &s;eede, &s;eeing they had no law written.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen 5.</NOTE>His &s;ucce&s;&s;ors and genealogie, are &s;et downe in the 5. of <HI>Gene&s;is,</HI> where there be ten prie&s;ts, and builders of the Church, from the creation till the flood; their names be the&s;e, <HI>Adam, Seth, Eno&s;h, Kenan, Mahalaleell, Iered, Henoch, Methu&s;alem, Lamech, Noah.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what law and rule, had they to build the &s;oules of men, vpon Chri&s;t the promi&s;ed &s;eede?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that the word of God was their law and rule, by which they did build the Church vpon Chri&s;t the rocke of our &s;alvation; they builded not by humane inventions.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And how was the word delivered, &s;eeing it was not written?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that the word of God, was then delivered by tradition, fir&s;t, God delivered and reveiled his will to <HI>Adam</HI> by word of mouth, and renewed the &s;ame to the Prie&s;ts and Patriarkes, not by writing, but by &s;peech, and dreames, and other in&s;pirations; and thus the word of God went from man to man, for the &s;pace of two thou&s;and and foure hundreth yeares, vnto the time of <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> who was the fir&s;t penman of holy &s;criptures.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But can you &s;hew nothing out of &s;cripture, that that Religi|on, doctrine, and faith, which was then, is the &s;ame which your Church of great Brittaine, now profe&s;&s;e and preach to the world? you &s;aid it is the &s;ame, proue it, or el&s;e how &s;hall I beleeue you, and if you doe not proue it, you will &s;hew your &s;elfe to be but a lyer and a deceiver.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>God willing I will proue it hereafter, but fir&s;t giue me leaue to confirme their Prie&s;thood and &s;acrifice, by an other place of &s;cripture, which I had almo&s;t forgot: <HI>Iob</HI> in his time was a prie&s;t, and <HI>Iethro, Mo&s;es</HI> father in law was a Prie&s;t, and
<PB N="111" REF="63"> therefore there were other Prie&s;ts as I take it, be&s;ides the line of Prie&s;ts which I haue recited: but tho&s;e Prie&s;ts were onely kept in memory by tradition, and regi&s;tred by <HI>Mo&s;es;</HI> becau&s;e of their line the high Prie&s;t of our profe&s;&s;ion Chri&s;t &s;hould come, and becau&s;e in that line, Religion was mo&s;t purely pre|&s;erved.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Proue that</HI> Iob <HI>was a prie&s;t.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I thinke I can doe it, and that very plainely in the la&s;t Chapter of his Booke, the Lord being angry, and his wrath kindled again&s;t <HI>Eliphas</HI> the <HI>Temanite,</HI> &amp; his two friends; <HI>for yee haue not &s;poken of me the thing that is right, like my &s;ervant</HI> Iob; <HI>therefore take vnto you now &s;eaven Bullocks, and &s;eaven Rams, and goe to my &s;ervant</HI> Iob, <HI>and offer vp for your &s;elues burnt offering, and my &s;ervant</HI> Iob <HI>&s;hall pray for you, for I will accept him,</HI> lea&s;t I &s;hould put you to &s;hame; thus you &s;ee that <HI>Iob</HI> was a Prie&s;t; and did the office of a Prie&s;t, to pray for, ble&s;&s;e, and receiue the &s;acrifice of the people brought to him by Gods command: this confirmes that I haue formerly &s;ayd of the Prie&s;thood of <HI>Adam,</HI> and his &s;ucce&s;&s;ours.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now to their Law and doctrine, let me heare it.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The Lord having created the fir&s;t man, called his name <HI>Adam,</HI> which &s;ignifi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">th earth, or earthly; and <HI>Adams</HI> fir&s;t &s;on was <HI>Cain,</HI> which &s;ignifieth <HI>po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion,</HI> for &s;o did <HI>Adam</HI> name him: but he perceiving what might be the comfort of &s;uch po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion, nameth his &s;econd <HI>Abell,</HI> which &s;ignifieth <HI>vanitie,</HI> to &s;hew, that if a man haue never &s;o large kingdomes, or po&s;|&s;e&s;&s;ions, or be never &s;o nobly borne, as <HI>Cain</HI> was, except the &s;onne of God, it is all but vanitie, and a vexation of minde. This is the doctrine that we the Church of great <HI>Brittaine</HI> doe profe&s;&s;e and teach, that Chri&s;t is the onely gaine and po&s;&s;e&s;&s;i|on, and that all other gaine and po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion is but vanitie and vexation without him; therefore <HI>Adam</HI> nameth his third &s;on <HI>Seth,</HI> which &s;ignifieth <HI>&s;etled;</HI> &s;o that <HI>Adam</HI> con&s;idered his own mi&s;erable condition by &s;inne, and the vanitie of all things in this world, Gods grace &s;o wrought with him, that by faith he &s;etled him&s;elfe vpon the promi&s;ed &s;eed, Chri&s;t Ie&s;us, the im|moveable rock of our &s;alvation: and to expre&s;&s;e his &s;tabilitie of
<PB REF="64"> faith, called his &s;onne <HI>Seth,</HI> that is, <HI>&s;etled.</HI> Now you &s;hall &s;ee by the names of the re&s;t of the ten fathers, what vertues are &s;igni|fied by them, <HI>Seth</HI> having obtained by Gods free favour the faith of his father <HI>Adam;</HI> this faith being the principall grace, whereby the &s;oules of the righteous are knit vnto Chri&s;t; and it is faith in Chri&s;t, that produceth a godly life; for, <HI>what is not of faith is &s;inne,</HI> therefore <HI>Seth</HI> calleth his &s;onne <HI>Eno&s;h,</HI> which &s;ignifieth <HI>zealous,</HI> and therefore &s;orrowfull; and this he did, becau&s;e he &s;aw the corruption of Religion, and good life to in&s;ue vpon the marriage of the &s;onnes of God with the daugh|ters of men, who regard worldly preferment rather then the promi&s;e of life everla&s;ting, by continuing in true Religion, which zeale and &s;orrow we profe&s;&s;e for the like &s;innes. <HI>Eno&s;h</HI> named his &s;onne <HI>Kenan,</HI> which &s;ignifieth the contrite or god|ly repentance, which &s;orrow is mentioned by the Apo&s;tle <HI>Paul</HI> to the <HI>Corinthians,</HI> where he &s;aith; <HI>I reioyce not that yee did &s;or|row, but that yee &s;orrowed vnto repentance:</HI> which &s;orrow vnto repentance, is a turning from all &s;inne vnto God: and this con|trition, &s;orrow, and repentance we profe&s;&s;e and teach. Now as repentance commeth of godly &s;orrow, and as faith, zeale, and godly &s;orrow vnto repentance, are gracious gifts of God; &s;o there is required a thankefull acknowledgement of them; therefore <HI>Kenan</HI> named his &s;onne <HI>Mahalaleel,</HI> which &s;ignifi|eth <HI>pray&s;e God;</HI> which none can doe effectually, without an humble and a lowly mind; he knowing that &s;uch fruit is re|quired of &s;uch a tree, therefore he nameth his &s;onne <HI>Iared,</HI> the humble or lowly. Now looke backe a little, what hath bin &s;aid by the fir&s;t builders of the Church, fir&s;t, they &s;etled them|&s;elues vpon Chri&s;t the &s;ure foundation of the Church; next, they are zealous for Religion, and &s;orrowfull for the wicked|ne&s;&s;e of the times; next, they are contrite and &s;orrowfull, and repent, and turne to God from their owne &s;innes; and then they are thankfull, and pray&s;e God for all his &s;pirituall favours, and corporall ble&s;&s;ings: and all the&s;e vertues which they pro|fe&s;&s;e, mu&s;t be in an humble and a lowly minded man, that is indued with all the fore&s;aid graces. They with vs &s;ay, he &s;hall be a ve&s;&s;ell &s;anctified vnto honour, meete for the v&s;es of the
<PB N="113" REF="64"> Lord: therefore <HI>Iared</HI> the <HI>lowly,</HI> named his &s;onne <HI>Henoch</HI> the <HI>holy,</HI> which is the &s;ignification of his name, and therefore it is &s;ayd, he walked with God: and this he did in a holy conver|&s;ation of life, as a man dedicated to God, and therefore was ta|ken vp into heaven. Thus we &s;ee by the &s;ignification of the&s;e names, what was, and is the will of God; wherein they did, and we &s;hould &s;pend our dayes, in walking with God in holi|nes, as <HI>Henoch</HI> did, and the other fathers: and &s;ayth the Apo|&s;tle, <HI>the end of our faith, is the &s;alvation of our &s;oules vnto ever|la&s;ting life;</HI> and therefore <HI>Henoch</HI> the holy, nameth his &s;onne <HI>Methu&s;ala,</HI> which &s;ignifieth <HI>long life.</HI> Thus <HI>Henoch</HI> being a&s;|&s;ured of the infinite mercies of God towards him and his &s;eede, by faith &s;till beholding as in a gla&s;&s;e, the redemption by the &s;onne of God, nameth his &s;onne accordingly <HI>long life:</HI> but be|cau&s;e men &s;hould not thinke, that any here in this world li|veth without calamitie, and lea&s;t outward happines, &s;hould make men forget God, <HI>Methu&s;ala</HI> being a Prophet preached of the de&s;truction of the world by the floud, calleth his &s;onne <HI>Lamech,</HI> which &s;ignifieth <HI>&s;trucken</HI> or <HI>heart wounded;</HI> which &s;heweth that <HI>Lamech,</HI> was outwardly afflicted by men, and in|wardly afflicted in con&s;cience by the Devill; and in re&s;pect that he being next tho&s;e times of danger, wherein the world &s;hould be drowned, for de&s;pi&s;ing the preaching of the Fa|thers. And though God throweth con&s;ciences downe for a while, with griefe of other mens iu&s;t puni&s;hment, yet he rai|&s;eth them vp againe, giving them hope of his a&s;&s;ured promi|&s;es, and a &s;weete comfort of eternall life. <HI>Lamech</HI> being thus &s;trengthened by faith, ayming &s;till to the &s;entence of &s;alvati|on propounded in Paradice, calleth his &s;onne, <HI>Noah,</HI> which &s;ignifieth <HI>re&s;torer</HI> or <HI>comforter. Noah</HI> was a figure of Chri&s;t, and we doe not reade, that God did &s;peake to any of the&s;e ten Fathers, but to <HI>Adam</HI> the fir&s;t, and <HI>Noah</HI> the la&s;t of the tenne Fathers, before the floud. He built the Arke a figure of the Church, and therefore he was a figure of Chri&s;t, the great builder of the &s;pirituall Church of God. I de&s;ire to be as &s;hort as I can, and therefore I will here end my di&s;cour&s;e of the fir&s;t age of the Church, in which time all fundamentall truth of
<PB REF="65"> religion was taught, which you may conceiue by their &s;igni|ficant names, which is the very religion wee at this day doe profe&s;&s;e in this particular Church of great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> and ther|fore wee are in a true &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, in that which is the life and being of a true vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t, and therefore Seni|our <HI>Philip,</HI> I exhort you and all private men, to looke chiefly to the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of true faith, and doctrine, without which you can haue no hope of &s;alvation, though you haue &s;ucce&s;|&s;ion of per&s;ons.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, haue you done with the Fathers and builders of the Church before the Law, if you haue, then proceede to your &s;ucce&s;|&s;ion.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I remember that one of the Apo&s;tles &s;ayth, <HI>that God did in times pa&s;t &s;undry wayes &s;peake vnto his people, but now at the la&s;t, he &s;peakes to vs by his owne &s;onne:</HI> but I will as well as I can, &s;hew fir&s;t how God did ordinarily &s;peake to his people in the &s;econd age of the Church, which is vnder the Law. In the former age of the Church, the word and lawes of God were ordinarily, as you haue heard delivered by tradition: but as I haue &s;aid, the liues of men being &s;hortened, their memories were more weake, and therefore the Lord in mercy delivered his lawes and will by meanes more durable, which was by writing; then he ordained other ordinary Prie&s;ts, which were &s;ucce&s;&s;ours of the fir&s;t borne Prie&s;ts, and the&s;e were the Prie&s;ts of <HI>Levie:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Numb. 12.21</NOTE> and this appeareth in the third of numbers, in the&s;e wordes: <HI>and al&s;o the Lord &s;pake vnto</HI> Mo&s;es <HI>&s;aying; I haue even taken the Levites from among the children of I&s;raell, for all the fir&s;t borne that openeth the matrix of the children of I&s;raell, and the Levites &s;hall be mine;</HI> and the end was to &s;erue God in the Sanc|tuary. Now for this mini&s;tring tribe <HI>Levie,</HI> there were degrees among them: for tho&s;e that came of his &s;on <HI>Kohath,</HI> were the high Prie&s;ts; and tho&s;e that came of <HI>Ger&s;hom</HI> and <HI>Merari,</HI> were allotted vnto inferior &s;ervices, as in this booke largely appear|eth: but you mu&s;t vnder&s;tand that the fir&s;t borne of the <HI>Koha|thites,</HI> were onely high Prie&s;ts, as <HI>Aaron,</HI> and the elde&s;t after him lineally by ordinary rule in every Altar duty, as al&s;o one|ly appointed to enter into the holy of holies, and that once a
<PB N="115" REF="65"> yeare, the&s;e Leviticall Prie&s;ts, did build the Church of God, vpon the ble&s;&s;ed foundation Chri&s;t, by the word and lawes of God written, which word and law, was all one with tho&s;e lawes delivered formerly by tradition,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod. 19.5</NOTE> but onely differ'd in the manner of delivery: the Lord did make choi&s;e of the I&s;raelits to be his people, as appeareth in the 19 of <HI>Exodus,</HI> in the&s;e words: <HI>And now therefore if you will heare my voyce indeede, and keepe my Covenant: then &s;hall you be my cheife trea&s;ure aboue all people, though all the earth be mine.</HI> Now when the Lord had made choi&s;e of his Church, and Pa&s;tors to build the Church vpon Chri&s;t the foundation; which builders, were the Levi|ticall Prie&s;ts, and tho&s;e were the ordinary builders all the time of the Law. The Lord al&s;o rai&s;ed extraordinary builders, which were the Prophets, which were the expounders of the Law, who prophecied al&s;o of the Me&s;&s;ias to come: and tho&s;e Prophets did denounce from God, the Iudgements which he threatned again&s;t the contemners and breakers of his lawes: they &s;pared none, neither prie&s;ts, nor people, no, nor the Kings and Rulers, as <HI>Eliah</HI> told <HI>Ahab; Thou and thy fathers hou&s;e, doe trouble I&s;rael,</HI> and the Prophet <HI>Nathan</HI> told <HI>David</HI> the King, <HI>Thou art the man:</HI> now as God had made choi&s;e of his Church, and appointed Pa&s;tors and Teachers to build the Church vp|on Chri&s;t the foundation, &s;o al&s;o he gaue them lawes, to frame the &s;everall &s;oules of the Church, for his &s;pirituall building. The&s;e lawes were of 3 &s;orts, <HI>Morall, Iudiciall,</HI> and <HI>Ceremonial:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod. 19.16.17.18.</NOTE> Fir&s;t, for the <HI>Morall</HI> law, with what Maie&s;tie and terror, was it delivered; as in thundring and lightning, and in a thicke cloud vpon the mount, and the &s;ound of a trumpet, very loud, &s;o that all the people were afraid, and the mount <HI>Sina</HI> was all on a &s;moake, becau&s;e the Lord came downe vpon it in fire, and the &s;moake a&s;cended as the &s;moake of a furnace, and all the mount trembled exceedingly. Now if the Law were delivered with &s;uch Maie&s;tie and terror, what &s;hall become of contem|ners of this law, and of tho&s;e that breake this law, and teach men &s;o to doe, as your Pope,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Math 5.19.</NOTE> and Church of <HI>Rome</HI> doe mo&s;t fouly, as (God willing) you &s;hall heare hereafter. Now I pray you hearken a little, what I &s;hall &s;ay of the <HI>Morall</HI> law and the
<PB REF="66"> Go&s;pell together. God cals the <HI>I&s;raelites</HI> out of <HI>Egypt,</HI> and willeth them to heare his law in the&s;e words, God &s;pake all the&s;e wordes &s;aying, <HI>I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt.</HI> In the fir&s;t &s;entence, you haue the Go&s;pell taught in the&s;e words, <HI>thy God;</HI> for by this is vnder|&s;tood the redemption by Chri&s;t: for though God in re&s;pect that he is the Creator, is God both of the wicked, and the vn|godly, yet he never calleth him&s;elfe the God of the wicked: hi|therto is all the law referred, for all the prophecies in Chri&s;t are yea and Amen: this entrance to the Law by the Go&s;pel, is exceeding nece&s;&s;ary, for &s;eeing if wee behold the infinite Maie&s;tie of God in our weakenes, there is no cau&s;e but of trem|bling and feare. It plea&s;eth God in the face of thy godly Re|deemer, to &s;hew him&s;elfe favourable, and reconciled, where|by we may approach with boldnes. Now I &s;ay, God gaue al|&s;o <HI>Iudiciall</HI> lawes, for the politicall government of the com|mon wealth of <HI>I&s;raell,</HI> which <HI>Iudiciall</HI> lawes, were &s;ome cere|moniall, &s;ome morall, or naturall: as they were ceremoniall, they ended at the death of Chri&s;t; but as they are naturall, or morall, they binde alwayes to the ende of the world. Now the Magi&s;trate might doe nothing, but that which he knew to be the will of God, and therefore he was to &s;tand before the high Prie&s;t, who &s;hall aske coun&s;ell for him, by the iudgement of <HI>&V;rim</HI> and <HI>Thummim before the Lord, at his word they &s;hall goe out,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Num. 27.28.</NOTE> <HI>and at his word they &s;hall come in, both he, and all the Children of I&s;rael with him, and all the Congregation:</HI> and this wee al&s;o hold and teach, that our King and &s;ubordinate Magi&s;trates vn|der him, may doe nothing for the government of the common wealth, but by con&s;ulting with God, to know his will by his word. And thus farre we are in a true &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of the anci|ent Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now I pray let me heare your iudgement of the Ceremoniall Law, and what the Iewes Church were taught by it.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were, that the Iewi&s;h Church were taught by <HI>Mo|&s;es,</HI> the redemption by Chri&s;t, and this he did by the Ceremo|niall Law. Fir&s;t, of the Tabernacle, there were two places, 1 <HI>The Holy,</HI> 2 <HI>The Holy of holie&s;t,</HI> the holy was called the Sanc|tuary
<PB N="117" REF="66"> of the world, and the holy of holie&s;t, did repre&s;ent the &s;tate of heaven, it is &s;ayd in the Epi&s;tle to the <HI>Heb:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 9.1.9. Heb. 10.1.</NOTE> <HI>That the law was the &s;hadow of good things to come:</HI> and the &s;hadowing law, was the ceremoniall law, as is plaine to be perceived by this 10 Chapter: within the Holy of holie&s;t, was the Arke of the covenant of God, and it was covered, and the covering was called the mercy &s;eate, which figured Chri&s;t, who is our pro|pitiatory or mercy &s;eate, to cover our &s;innes: Over the mercy &s;eate, were the forme of two Angels, having relation to the Angels that kept the way to the tree of life, to &s;hew that none were worthy to come into the Holy of of holie&s;t, but <HI>Aaron</HI> the annointed of the Lord, who likewi&s;e figured Chri&s;t, both in name and office: in name, for a learned man of ours, &s;ayth that <HI>Aaron</HI> &s;ignifieth Chri&s;t, which in Engli&s;h is annointed, and in office, by entring once for all, into the Holy of holie&s;t: for it was the high Prie&s;ts office once every yeare to enter into the Holy of holie&s;t with bloud, of this <HI>David</HI> &s;peakeh, <HI>When he commeth into the world, meaning Chri&s;t,</HI> he &s;ayth, <HI>Sacrifice and burnt offerings thou woulde&s;t not haue,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 40.7.</NOTE> <HI>but a body ha&s;t thou ordai|ned; in the beginning of thy booke, it is written, that I &s;hould doe thy will O God, then &s;ayd I, loe I come.</HI> And thus you &s;ee how the redemption of Chri&s;t, was taught by <HI>Mo&s;es.</HI> Now to teach the <HI>I&s;raelites</HI> the way to Chri&s;t the Me&s;sias, God appointed divers &s;acrifices, &s;ome to be offered vp directly, for expiation for &s;in: and &s;econdly, &s;ome for te&s;tifying due thankefulnes vnto God, for favours received. Tho&s;e &s;acrifices for &s;inne, are all tho&s;e, which brought with them effu&s;ion of bloud, and &s;prinkling of the &s;ame: the&s;e all, doe figure the bloud of Chri&s;t, which &s;hould be &s;hed, for the forgiuenes of &s;innes, and this is clearely &s;et downe and proved by the Authour to the <HI>Heb: Now the &s;acrifices that were offered, were of cleane bea&s;ts,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb 9.7.11.12 13.14.</NOTE> <HI>&s;ignifying that Chri&s;t that was to be offered once for all,</HI> &s;hould be of ab&s;olute per|fection: It were too tedious to enter into di&s;cour&s;e of the di|vers particular &s;acrifices, for &s;innes of Princes and Rulers, Prie&s;ts and particular people, and for the whole congregation, all which did figure out Chri&s;t Ie&s;us, who by his death, and
<PB REF="67"> bloud&s;hedding, did offer him&s;elfe to the father, as a perfect &s;a|crifice well plea&s;ing to God, for the &s;innes of the world. Now the Altar that &s;anctified his offering, was his Deity, the &s;acri|fice which hee offered, was his humanity, and the Prie&s;t that offered this acceptable &s;acrifice, was both natures vnited in one per&s;on, Chri&s;t both God and man, and thus in briefe as well as I can, I haue &s;hewed you the ceremonies vnder the Law, which taught the <HI>I&s;raelites</HI> the Me&s;sias to come.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what Law el&s;e, had they to direct them in holy life, reli|giou&s;ly towards God, and in iu&s;tice towards man?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I haue &s;hewed you before, that they had <HI>Iudiciall</HI> lawes, for their civill governement. And al&s;o the <HI>Morall</HI> law, which is a perfect rule of righteou&s;nes, which no meere man did e|ver perfectly performe, but Chri&s;t the Me&s;sias, (being per|fect God and perfect man) hath perfectly performed it for all penitent beleevers. And this he did, fir&s;t, by the inherent ho|lines of his nature; &s;econdly, by his actiue obedience of his life: thirdly, pa&s;&s;iuely in his &s;uffrings; and therefore the Law &s;heweth vs, what we could haue done in our &s;tate of Inno|cencie, and it &s;heweth vs what we cannot doe, now in the &s;tate of corruption, and therfore it is now a &s;choole-ma&s;ter, to driue vs to Chri&s;t. Now the two re&s;emblances of the heavenly and earthly &s;anctuary, are a gla&s;&s;e for vs to behold Gods glory in. The heavens re&s;embled by the Holy of holie&s;t, are the hea|vens of God, where he is mo&s;t &s;pecially pre&s;ent: and the Ho|ly, re&s;embleth the Church on earth, where he is pre&s;ent a|mong&s;t men. In which there be creatures, cleane, and vn|cleane; the cleane, to repre&s;ent the godly; the vncleane, the wicked of conver&s;ation: and as trees, and all other creatures, differ one from another, &s;o doe the manners of men: and God made bea&s;ts, fi&s;h, and fowle, to expre&s;&s;e the affection of mens mindes, and gaue liberty to bea&s;ts, fi&s;h, and fowle, to eate vp one another; but to man, he gaue a Iu&s;tice among them&s;elues, and taught them a civill life, by eating of cleane bea&s;ts, and forbiddeth gro&s;&s;e behaviour in forbidding to eate vncleane bea&s;ts, fi&s;hes, and fowles. This di&s;tinction of cleane bea&s;ts, fi&s;hes, and fowles, from vncleane; was appointed by <HI>Mo&s;es</HI>
<PB REF="67"> law; to di&s;tingui&s;h the Iewes, the people of God, from the Gentiles, who were not the people of God, but Heathen. The vncleane bea&s;ts forbidden, were Hogs and Dogs, Conie and Hare, Dawe and &s;uch like: to &s;hew that we &s;hould not be like Hogs, to wallow in the mire of our vncleane conver&s;ation; nor like Dogs to returne to the vomit of our former impieties, but hold on in the newnes of a &s;anctified life, nor like Co|nies, who&s;e nature is to vndermine: but to deale faithfully with our neighbours; that &s;o our conver&s;ation may appeare before men, as we may glorifie our father which is in heaven: nor like the Dawe or Crow, which peereth with his eyes, for we ought not to be curious, in looking to other mens faults, but &s;triue to mend our owne,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Math 7.</NOTE> as our Saviour Chri&s;t teacheth in the Go&s;pell, <HI>Thou that &s;pie&s;t a mote in thy brothers eye, fir&s;t pull out the beame out of thine owne.</HI> And of the re&s;t of vncleane bea&s;ts, fi&s;hes and fowles, &s;omething in life is taught to be e&s;|chewed, for the lawfulnes, and vnlawfulnes of eating them. Now there is no doubt, for Chri&s;t hath broken downe the wall of &s;eperation, and wee may now freely v&s;e any of them. But the equitie of the &s;ame law remaineth &s;till, for the law of God, is eternall. All the cleane, were &s;uch as chewed the cud, and parted the hoofe; as Oxe, Sheepe, Goate and Hart, and &s;uch like; to teach vs that we ought alwayes to be meditating of the workeman&s;hip of heaven and earth, and the rdempti|on by the &s;onne of God: painefull in our vocation, as Oxen; meeke as Sheepe; hardy as Goates vnder the cro&s;&s;e of Chri&s;t; and &s;wift to good with the Hart; that our bodies might be a cleane tabernacle, holy, and vndefiled, fit for the Holy of holi|e&s;t to enter in; &s;o &s;hould we be clothed with <HI>Aarons</HI> white gar|ment of perfect ju&s;tice, and in our bo&s;ome retaine the precious Iewell of <HI>&V;rim</HI> and <HI>Thummim,</HI> that is light of the knowledge of Chri&s;t, and perfection to embrace the &s;ame. Thus you &s;ee that the Law and all the Ceremonies thereof; the Tabernacle, and all the appertenances thereof; <HI>Aarons</HI> office and attyre, are all to be applyed to the redemption by Chri&s;t, the equitie of which Lawes, we in the Church of Great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> doe preach and profe&s;&s;e, and therefore we are the true Church and &s;uc|ceede
<PB REF="68"> the true Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well let me heare what you can &s;ay of the doctrine and Reli|gion, taught in the Church, in the new Testament, and how it &s;uc|ceedes the doctrine of the Church of old, both before and vnder the law, and what Pa&s;tors &s;uccedes for the building of the Church vpon Chri&s;t the foundation, which mu&s;t continue from his a&s;cention into heaven vnto the end of the world.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Fir&s;t, therefore I &s;ay that the ceremoniall law vpon the comming of Chri&s;t, is di&s;anulled, as is plaine, in the 7. to the <HI>Heb:</HI> in the&s;e words,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 7.18.19.</NOTE> <HI>For the commandement that went afore, is di&s;anulled, becau&s;e of the weakenes thereof; and vnprafitablenes, for the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope, made perfect;</HI> whereby we draw nearer vnto God, for the end of the law was to bring vs to Chri&s;t, by whom, we draw neare vnto God. Now that the Prie&s;thood of <HI>Aaron,</HI> is changed, as al&s;o the law: looke the 12 ver&s;e, the <HI>Leviticall</HI> and <HI>Aaronicall</HI> Prie&s;thood, is vtterly changed, and Chri&s;t become our high Prie&s;t, and is &s;o for ever; <HI>and that not after the order of Aaron, but for ever after the order of Melchi&s;edech.</HI> And his prie&s;thood cannot pa&s;&s;e to any other, becau&s;e he endureth for ever: now as Chri&s;t is our high Prie&s;t, &s;o he offered a &s;acrifice to the Fa|ther for vs, in the&s;e words, both in the 40. <HI>P&s;al.</HI> and in the 10. to the <HI>Heb. Then &s;ayd he,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 110.4. Heb. 7.17.24.</NOTE> <HI>Loe I come to doe thy will O God: hee taketh away the fir&s;t, that he may &s;tabli&s;h the &s;econd, by the which will, we are &s;anctified, even by the offring of the body of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t once made.</HI> As Chri&s;t is our eternall Prie&s;t and &s;acrifice, for the appea&s;ing of the wrath of the Father, due vnto vs for our &s;ins, &s;o al&s;o he hath a perpetuall care of his Church. <HI>Iohn</HI> 17.12. and Chri&s;t is the onely Doctor and Ma&s;ter, whom we mu&s;t heare in the Church. <HI>Deut.</HI> 18.15. <HI>Act.</HI> 3.22. <HI>Chri&s;t onely hath &s;atis|fied for vs. Mat.</HI> 20.28. and 26.28. <HI>Rom.</HI> 3.25. and many more places, <HI>Chri&s;t alone is &s;ufficient to &s;alvation. Act.</HI> 16.31. Chri&s;t can make to liue. <HI>Iohn</HI> 11.25. Chri&s;t is the perpetuall Advocate. 1 <HI>Iohn</HI> 1.12. <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.34. <HI>Chri&s;t is the Lord of all. Mat.</HI> 28.18. <HI>Phil.</HI> 2.9.10.11. <HI>Col.</HI> 2.10. What &s;hould I &s;ay, <HI>he is all in all,</HI> for the good of his cho&s;en, and therefore it is a fearefull <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">ing in doctrine to derogate from him in any thing; It is
<PB N="121" REF="68"> &s;ayd in the <HI>Heb:</HI> 1.1.2.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 1.1 2.</NOTE> <HI>At &s;undry times, and in divers manners, God &s;pake in the old time to our fathers by the Prophets; In the&s;e la&s;t dayes, he hath &s;poken vnto vs by his &s;onne, whom he hath made heyre of all things, by whom al&s;o he made the worlds.</HI> So that <HI>Mo|&s;es,</HI> and all other holy builders, may be faithfull builders, as &s;ervants; but Chri&s;t is the ab&s;olute Ma&s;ter builder of his Church; <HI>Who is the &s;onne over his owne hou&s;e, who&s;e hou&s;e we are,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 3 5.6.</NOTE> <HI>if we hold fa&s;t that confidence, and the reioycing of the hope vnto the end.</HI> He is the great Ma&s;ter and Doctor, and Ma&s;ter builder of his Church, as he &s;aith to <HI>Peter,</HI> and the other Apo&s;tles, vp|on <HI>this Rocke, will I build my Church,</HI> &s;o that he is the builder, o|ther builders are but his in&s;truments.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what Pa&s;tors, and builders,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 4.11.</NOTE> <HI>did Chri&s;t &s;end to build his Church, vnto the end of the world?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Paul</HI> to the <HI>Ephe.</HI> &s;heweth in the&s;e words; <HI>Chri&s;t a&s;cen|ded vp on high, and gaue gifts vnto men, for the building of his Church; as &s;ome to be Apo&s;tles, &s;ome Prophets, &s;ome Evangeli&s;ts, &s;ome Pa&s;tors and Teachers:</HI> I pray Seniour <HI>Philip</HI> marke, here are reckoned vp the builders of the Church, &amp; among&s;t them, your &s;upreame mini&s;teriall head, is left out; &s;ure if hee had beene ordained by Chri&s;t, the Apo&s;tles would not haue left him out, being an office of &s;o great weight, as your Church makes him, but more of this hereafter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Which of the&s;e builders, doe your mini&s;ters &s;ucceede? &s;urely, I thinke none of them, &s;eing your Church began but in King</HI> Henry <HI>the</HI> 8 <HI>his Raigne.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Surely, our Teachers &s;ucceed them all, as they are Prea|chers of Gods word: our Saviour Chri&s;t and his Apo&s;tles, and the Prophets of old; were all preachers of Gods word, and in this our Pa&s;tors are their &s;ucce&s;&s;ors, but they do not &s;ucceed Chri&s;t as he is the Me&s;sias; neither doe our Pa&s;tors &s;ucceede the Apo&s;tles in their Apo&s;tolicall office, for that dyed with them, and &s;o did likewi&s;e the Prophets. But in breaking the bread of life, by preaching every way both in &s;ea&s;on, and out of &s;ea&s;on, and in this to haue a care of their flockes, whereof the holy Gho&s;t hath made them over&s;eers, herein they &s;uc|ceede the former preachers.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB REF="69">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>This is &s;trange to mee that there &s;hould be Pa&s;tors to preach, that never had calling, and never were &s;ent to preach, I pray tell me, can any preach except he be &s;ent?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Truely indeede they cannot, <HI>For no man taketh this honor to him&s;elfe,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb. 5.4. Iohn 1 6. Mat. 10.16. Rom. 8 15. Iere. 23.21.</NOTE> <HI>but he that is called of God, as was Aaron,</HI> and it is &s;aid of <HI>Iohn Bapti&s;t; There was a man &s;ent from God:</HI> and our Savi|our &s;aith to his Apo&s;tles, <HI>Behold I &s;end you;</HI> and the Apo&s;tle <HI>Paul</HI> &s;ayth, <HI>How can they preach, except they be &s;ent?</HI> And the Prophet <HI>Ieremy,</HI> reproveth &s;uch, <HI>as runne before they were &s;ent.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, you &s;ay truth, and hence it is that your Mini&s;ters are no Pa&s;tors, becau&s;e they cannot proue their calling to be a true calling.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Our Pa&s;tors haue a lawfull calling, as they haue proved, and I my &s;elfe will make it manife&s;t anon.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But I pray you haue they an inward or an outward calling?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;were they haue both.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>An outward calling mu&s;t either be immediately by the voice of Chri&s;t, as was the Apo&s;tles, or mediately by the hands of the Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>They are called of God by the Church, for it is he that giveth Pa&s;tors, &amp; Teachers, for the confirmation of the Saints.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>If they be called truely, then they mu&s;t deriue their authori|ty, by lawfull &s;ucce&s;&s;ion from Chri&s;t and his Apo&s;tles, if they doe &s;o, let them &s;hew their de&s;cent.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The Mini&s;ters of our Church of great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> receiue Impo&s;ition of hands, in lawfull manner, from lawfull Bi&s;hops, endued with lawfull authority, and their calling is ordinary.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Your Bi&s;hops them&s;elues, whence haue they this authority?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>They receiued it from God, by the hands of &s;uch Bi|&s;hops, as went before them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But your fir&s;t reformed, whence doe they deriue their &s;ucce&s;|&s;ion?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P>I will a little &s;peake of the fir&s;t conver&s;ion of this land, and then &s;peake &s;ome-what of tho&s;e which were the In&s;tru|ments, which Chri&s;t did v&s;e for its convertion, &amp; then &s;hew the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of our Mini&s;ters lineally, from tho&s;e fir&s;t converters. Fir&s;t, I &s;ay it is a thing cleare, that our Countrey of Great <HI>Brit|taine,</HI> received very anciently the Chri&s;tian faith, as I perceiue,
<PB N="123" REF="69"> by the booke of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, written by a learned and reverend Divine of ours, named Ma&s;ter <HI>Francis Ma&s;on;</HI> who hath there in, recited many Fathers and Hi&s;torians, that haue written of the <HI>Brittaines</HI> receiving the Chri&s;tian faith, in the very &s;pring of the Primitiue Church, their names are the&s;e; fir&s;t, <HI>Theodo|ret;</HI> and before him, Saint <HI>Ierome;</HI> and before him, Saint <HI>Chri|&s;o&s;tome;</HI> and before him, <HI>Athana&s;ius;</HI> and before him, <HI>Tertul|lian;</HI> and before him, <HI>Origen;</HI> and to all the&s;e, (the &s;ayd M. <HI>Ma|&s;on</HI> &s;ayth) agreeth that which <HI>Polidore Virgil</HI> bringeth out o <HI>Gildas,</HI> the mo&s;t antient writer of our Nation. That <HI>Brittaine,</HI> received the faith, from the fir&s;t &s;pringing of the Go&s;pell: &s;o that at the very dawning of the day, to vs th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">t were in darkenes, and in the &s;hadow of death, the everla&s;ting light appeared, and the &s;onne of righteou&s;nes did &s;hine vpon them. The bar|ren wildernes of <HI>Brittaine,</HI> became a fruitfull garden, and was graciou&s;ly watred with the dew of heaven: And thus it was in part fulfilled, which was foretold in the P&s;almes, <HI>I will giue thee the Heathen for thine inheritance,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">P&s;al. 2.8.</NOTE> <HI>and the vttermo&s;t parts of the earth, for thy po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I haue heard that your Countrey of Great</HI> Brittaine, <HI>haue beene anciently converted to the faith of Chri&s;t</HI> 3. <HI>times, and that by</HI> 3. <HI>Bi&s;hops of</HI> Rome; <HI>as fir&s;t, by Saint</HI> Peter: <HI>&s;econdly, by</HI> Eleu|therius: <HI>thirdly, by Pope</HI> Gregory: <HI>and that Saint</HI> Peter <HI>came hither in his owne per&s;on; and</HI> Eleutherius <HI>and</HI> Gregory <HI>by their Legates.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Nay, what if it be proved that the <HI>Brittaines</HI> were Chri|&s;tians before the <HI>Romans:</HI> our learned M. <HI>Ma&s;on</HI> &s;ayth, that your Pa&s;tors doe proclaime every where, that <HI>Peter</HI> was the fir&s;t founder of the Church of <HI>Rome;</HI> but when came S. <HI>Peter</HI> fir&s;t to <HI>Rome? Baronius</HI> &s;aith, in the yeare of Chri&s;t, 44. be|ing the &s;econd of the Emperour <HI>Claudius.</HI> Now let vs con&s;i|der when our Iland fir&s;t received the &s;weete Influence of the Go&s;pell; and here we will follow <HI>Gildas,</HI> who was the mo&s;t antient Hi&s;torian of our Nation, and for his wi&s;edome, was &s;urnamed <HI>Sapience,</HI> and for his devotion, and eloquence, may well be termed, the zealous and golden mouth'd <HI>Gildas:</HI> this <HI>Gildas,</HI> declareth, how tho&s;e frozen Ilands, farre remote from
<PB REF="70"> the vi&s;ible &s;unne, receiue the glittering beames of Chri&s;t Ie&s;us, the invi&s;ible &s;onne. In the time of <HI>Tiberius Ce&s;ar,</HI> which is the more remarkeable, becau&s;e he profe&s;&s;eth in the &s;ame place, that he pronounceth it vpon &s;ure grounds, and certain know|ledge. Now <HI>Tiberius</HI> died in the yeare of Chri&s;t, 39. according to <HI>Baronius;</HI> whereupon it followeth that the <HI>Brittaine</HI> received the Go&s;pell fiue yeares at lea&s;t, before either <HI>Paul</HI> or <HI>Peter</HI> came at <HI>Rome,</HI> by which it is manife&s;t, that our fir&s;t conver&s;ion, is not come from <HI>Rome.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, I thinke it fal&s;e what you &s;ay; for</HI> Brittain <HI>was conver|ted thrice by tho&s;e which came from</HI> Rome, <HI>and it is the opinion of our Divines, and e&s;pecially by father</HI> Par&s;ons <HI>proved, that the A|po&s;tle S.</HI> Peter, <HI>was the fir&s;t converter of the</HI> Brittaines <HI>to the Chri|&s;tian faith.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Well, we are now come to tho&s;e which were the conver|ters of this Nation. I know by M^r. <HI>Ma&s;ons</HI> booke, that &s;ome hold that S. <HI>Peter,</HI> &s;ome S. <HI>Paul,</HI> &s;ome <HI>Simon Zelotes,</HI> &s;ome <HI>A|ri&s;tobilus,</HI> and &s;ome <HI>Io&s;eph</HI> of <HI>Arimathea,</HI> and that you among&s;t you hold it the be&s;t opinion, that S. <HI>Peter</HI> did fir&s;t convert our Natio~. It &s;eemeth that many of the Apo&s;tolical men, were here in <HI>Brittaine</HI> in the Primitiue time. But we cannot make it an Article of faith, which of them did fir&s;t convert this Land, yet it is more probable, that the Apo&s;tle <HI>Paul,</HI> rather then the A|po&s;tle <HI>Peter,</HI> did fir&s;t convert this Nation to the faith, or <HI>Simon</HI> of <HI>Canani,</HI> both which were Apo&s;tles, and had commi&s;&s;ion not from <HI>Peter,</HI> but from Chri&s;t immediately; and verily that S. <HI>Paul</HI> was here, is a point not without probabilitie; for he was the Apo&s;tle to the <HI>Gentiles. In labours abundant, in perils often, and that by Sea.</HI> He was a &s;tarre &s;wiftly gliding from Ea&s;t to We&s;t; a herauld proclaiming the acceptable day of the Lord. But we are of opinion, and thinke it is mo&s;t probable of all, that <HI>Io&s;eph</HI> of <HI>Arimathea,</HI> who was &s;ent hither by <HI>Philip</HI> the A|po&s;tle out of <HI>France,</HI> with ten others of his companions; and this <HI>Io&s;eph</HI> was the fir&s;t that did convert our Nation to the Chri&s;tian faith, and he did obtaine a place here of the King, where he and his company did re&s;ide, as in a Mona&s;tery; which place to this day is called <HI>Gla&s;&s;enbury.</HI> This was that <HI>Io|&s;eph</HI>
<PB N="125" REF="70"> which buryed the ble&s;&s;ed body of our Saviour Chri&s;t in his Sepulchre, in his garden. He afterward became a Preacher of the Re&s;urrection; In <HI>Gla&s;&s;enbury</HI> he poured out his pretious oyntment, and all <HI>Brittaine</HI> was filled with the &s;weetne&s;&s;e of the Odour. Now whither he was the fir&s;t Preacher in <HI>Brit|taine,</HI> we cannot define; But if he were the fir&s;t, then the fir&s;t converter came from <HI>Arimathea,</HI> and not from <HI>Rome,</HI> being &s;ent by <HI>Philip,</HI> and not by S. <HI>Peter.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now let vs conferre of the &s;econd conver&s;ion of this Nation, vn|der Pope</HI> Elutherius, <HI>and King</HI> Lucius.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>This is not to be called a conver&s;ion of our Nation, but rather a new &s;upply of Preachers, and further propagation of the Go&s;pell. All the &s;everall orders of your Prie&s;ts, let them beat their heads together, and they &s;hall never be able to proue that the Go&s;pell and faith of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, was ever &s;ince wholy extirpated out of this I&s;land, &s;ince the fir&s;t plantation in the A|po&s;tles times.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>It may be, the faith was profe&s;&s;ed by &s;ome private Chri&s;tian<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">, but not by the King, nor any induced by his authoritie; for him&s;elfe, he was not a Chri&s;tian, but &s;ent vnto Pope</HI> Elutherius, <HI>that by his commandement he might be made a Chri&s;tian.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>In that he wrote his Epi&s;tle to that purpo&s;e, you may &s;ee the motion proceeded from his owne brea&s;t, and not from the Preaching of <HI>Elutherius;</HI> he was already made a Chri&s;tian by the Bapti&s;me of the &s;pirit, and was de&s;irous to be made &s;o by the Bapti&s;me of water; he had already entred him&s;elfe into the &s;choole of Chri&s;t, &amp; &s;ought meanes that his whole kingdome might follow after, which argueth that his &s;oule was &s;anctified with grace. It is truth by Hi&s;tory, as it &s;eemes to me, that King <HI>Lucius</HI> did &s;end to <HI>Elutherius,</HI> Bi&s;hop of <HI>Rome,</HI> one <HI>Elvanus,</HI> who was brought vp at <HI>Gla&s;&s;enbury,</HI> and who did di&s;per&s;e through the wide fields of <HI>Brittain,</HI> tho&s;e fir&s;t &s;eeds of the Go&s;|pell &s;owne by <HI>Io&s;eph.</HI> It is recorded by hi&s;tory, that <HI>Elutherius</HI> made <HI>Elvanus</HI> Bi&s;hop of <HI>Brittaine,</HI> and one <HI>Meduinus,</HI> who went to <HI>Rome</HI> with <HI>Elvanus,</HI> Doctor, to Preach the faith of Chri&s;t through the whole I&s;land; which &s;heweth that when they were &s;ent Emba&s;&s;adours to <HI>Elutherius,</HI> they were no No|vi&s;es,
<PB N="126" REF="71"> but profound Divines, and practi&s;ed Teachers in the Schoole of Chri&s;t, as they are termed by one of your owne Hi&s;torians, as M^r: <HI>Ma&s;on</HI> &s;aith. Thus it appeareth that there were learned Preachers, which had &s;owne the &s;eeds of the Go|&s;pell through the whole I&s;land, even at the time of <HI>Elutherius</HI> &s;ending.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You and your Church are vnthankfull, and vnwilling to ac|knowledge your obligation to</HI> Rome.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>We acknowledge a &s;ingular ble&s;&s;ing from thence d<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ri|ved vnto this Nation; for <HI>Eleutherius</HI> &s;ent <HI>Fugatius</HI> and <HI>Dona|tianus,</HI> otherwi&s;e called <HI>Domiranus,</HI> by whom joyning with <HI>Elvanus</HI> and <HI>Meduinus,</HI> Chri&s;tian Religion was advanced. Then King <HI>Lucius</HI> was baptized, and many of his people; that the <HI>Druides</HI> were removed, and in their roomes Chri&s;tian Preachers placed. Thus Idolatry was di&s;poiled of her prop; and <HI>Dagon</HI> did fall downe before the Arke of <HI>I&s;raell.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Were not all the&s;e Bi&s;hoprickes erected, or at lea&s;t confirmed by the authoritie of the Bi&s;hop of Rome?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer; when the King de&s;ired to receiue the <HI>Romane</HI> lawes, the Bi&s;hop returned this an&s;wer, That there were alrea|die in <HI>Brittaine</HI> the old and new Te&s;tament, out of which by the Councell of his kingdome, he might take a law to governe his kingdome and people; for he was the Vicar of Chri&s;t in his owne kingdome. And as he did not interpo&s;e him&s;elfe in matters temporall, &s;o neither doth it appeare that he did in mat|ters &s;pirituall or Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall. He &s;ent not one Preacher into <HI>Brittaine,</HI> before he was entreated by the King. Neither doe we finde, that he a&s;&s;umed to him&s;elfe any authoritie, in erec|ting of Bi&s;hoprickes; neither did that age a&s;cribe it vnto him, as you &s;hall &s;ee in M^r: <HI>Ma&s;ons</HI> booke of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Bi&s;hops, where it doth more largely appeare.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And what &s;ay you to their conver&s;ion by</HI> Au&s;tin, <HI>who was &s;ent hither by Pope</HI> Gregory, <HI>and made Bi&s;hop of Canterbury.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>He was &s;ent I grant, but he did not lay the foundation of the Church, but built vpon another mans foundation; for there were at his arrivall in <HI>Brittaine</HI> &s;eaven Bi&s;hops, and an Archbi&s;hop, profe&s;&s;ing the Chri&s;tian faith; and about 2000.
<PB REF="71"> Monkes in the Mona&s;tery of <HI>Bangor.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>They were Brittaines, but S.</HI> Au&s;tin <HI>layd the foundation in o|ther places of the Land.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Not &s;o; for the <HI>Scots</HI> received the Go&s;pell even before the Preaching of <HI>Paladius,</HI> as Ma&s;ter <HI>Ma&s;ons</HI> booke will &s;hew you. The <HI>Pikts</HI> which were more Southern, received it afterward by <HI>Ninianus,</HI> a <HI>Brittaine</HI> borne; and the re&s;t of them, inhabi|ting the high Northern Mountaines, and cragged clifts, were converted by <HI>Columbus,</HI> an Iri&s;h man.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Yet</HI> Au&s;tin <HI>converted the Engli&s;h, called then the</HI> Angles.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The <HI>Angles</HI> po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ed the kingdome of <HI>Northumberland</HI> and <HI>Mercia. Northumberland</HI> was converted in the dayes of King <HI>O&s;wal,</HI> by the mini&s;tery of <HI>Aidon</HI> a <HI>Scot.</HI> And <HI>Mercia</HI> vnder King <HI>Penda,</HI> who being de&s;irous to marry the King of <HI>Northumberlands</HI> daughter, could not enjoy her but vpon this condition, That he and his people &s;hould become Chri&s;tians, by which occa&s;ion he fir&s;t attained to the heavenly truth, wherein he was exceedingly delighted aboue all earthly joyes. So he was brought to Chri&s;t by meanes of his ble&s;&s;ed Bride, and was baptized by <HI>Finanus,</HI> one of <HI>Aidons</HI> &s;ucce&s;&s;ors.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>This I&s;land being thus devided, the</HI> Iutts <HI>which flouri&s;hed in the kingdome of</HI> Kent, <HI>received the water of life fir&s;t from</HI> Au&s;tin. <HI>From whom al&s;o the golden &s;treames were derived vnto the</HI> Sax|ons.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>We acknowledge to Gods glory, that he and his, conver|ted thou&s;ands, yet dare we not &s;ay, that they layd the fir&s;t foundation in <HI>Kent.</HI> For in <HI>Canterbury,</HI> in the Regall Citie, even when <HI>Au&s;tin</HI> arrived, there was a Chri&s;tian Church, built in the time of the <HI>Romanes,</HI> dedicated to the memory of Saint <HI>Martin,</HI> whither <HI>Berta</HI> the Queene de&s;cended from the bloud royall of <HI>France,</HI> with <HI>Lathardus</HI> a Bi&s;hop her Chaplaine v&s;u|ally re&s;orted to divine &s;ervice. So it is mo&s;t likely, that <HI>La|thardus</HI> the French man, had layd &s;ome &s;tones in the founda|tion, before the comming of <HI>Au&s;tin,</HI> therefore is he that fir&s;t layd the foundation, the converter of the Kingdome of <HI>Kent,</HI> and not <HI>Au&s;tin,</HI> who came after, and built vpon the foun|dation formerly layd. I wi&s;h your <HI>Romi&s;h</HI> Prie&s;ts would imi|tate
<PB REF="72"> <HI>Elutherius,</HI> and <HI>Gregory,</HI> and <HI>Au&s;tin,</HI> &s;ent by him; for <HI>Elu|therius</HI> did not obtrude any vpon the Kingdome, but onely &s;ent at the Kings reque&s;t, and <HI>Au&s;ten,</HI> comming from <HI>Gregory,</HI> did not &s;teale in &s;ecretly, but &s;tayd in the I&s;land of <HI>Tennet,</HI> vntill &s;uch time as he knew the Kings plea&s;ure; neither offered he to Preach in <HI>Kent,</HI> before the King gaue him and his fellowes licence: they came not in di&s;gui&s;ed; they lurked not in cor|ners; they brought no Bulls in their bo&s;omes to di&s;charge &s;ub|jects, or to depo&s;e Princes. But their proceedings towardes their Prince, were Chri&s;tianly, hone&s;tly, and orderly. They came to plant the faith of Chri&s;t, your Prie&s;ts come to &s;up|plant it. They to preach obedience, you to teach rebellion. Their go&s;pell was a go&s;pell of peace, you arme the &s;ubject a|gain&s;t his Soveraigne, they conuerted people, yours pervert them. They &s;ought to build the Church, yours &s;eeke the ruine of the Church and Common-wealth. I hartily wi&s;h them to con&s;ider, what great difference there is betwixt them, and <HI>Au&s;tin.</HI> Thus I haue breviated &s;ome part of M^r. <HI>Ma&s;ons</HI> booke, to &s;hew the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of the pa&s;tours and builders of our Church, from the <HI>Apo&s;tles</HI> to <HI>Au&s;tin</HI> his time.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>And can you &s;hew your &s;ucce&s;&s;ion from Au&s;tin, till the time of your pretended reformation?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>It is a thing confe&s;&s;ed by your owne Prie&s;ts and writers, that the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Bi&s;hops, from <HI>Au&s;tin</HI> till <HI>Cranmor,</HI> who was our fir&s;t Bi&s;hop in the reformation, was a true &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, and that according to the Cannon of the Church, and al&s;o that <HI>Cranmor</HI> him&s;elfe was Cannonically con&s;ecrated, and that by the command and authority of <HI>Pope Clement,</HI> in the yeare of our Lord and Saviour Chri&s;t. 1532. The ninth of the <HI>Ca|lendes</HI> of <HI>March,</HI> and the &s;ayed Bi&s;hop <HI>Cranmor</HI> vpon the &s;aid commi&s;&s;ion from the <HI>Pope,</HI> was con&s;ecrated <HI>Arch</HI>-Bi&s;hop of Canterbury as followeth. <HI>Thomas Cranmor.</HI></P>
<P>Con&s;ecrated the 30. of <HI>March,</HI> 1533. and in the 24. of <HI>Henry</HI> the 8. by 3. Bi&s;hops, viz.
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>Iohn Lincolne.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Iohn Exon.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Henry A&s;aph.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Admit he were a lawfull Arch-Bi&s;hop, yet he was a principall
<PB N="129" REF="72"> cau&s;e of all tho&s;e lamentable alterations, which happened in the dayes of</HI> King <HI>Henry the</HI> 8. and <HI>Edward the</HI> 6.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Doe you call them lamentable? but I &s;ay they were a gra|tious beginning of thou&s;ands of ble&s;&s;ings, both to the Church, and Common-wealth of <HI>England.</HI> But I pray you let me a&s;ke you one thing, haue you not heard or read, that it is the opi|nion of your divines, that a Bi&s;hop, being rightly ordained, he can never lo&s;e his power of being a Bi&s;hop, nor his power to ordaine others.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Yes I know that it is their opinion, that no &s;chi&s;me nor here&s;ie, nor evill conver&s;ation of life, can take away his power of being a Bi|&s;hop, nor his power of giving orders to others.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then you doe confe&s;&s;e a&s;much as I would haue you, you &s;ay right that <HI>Cranmor</HI> was a true Bi&s;hop, and that he had power to giue orders to others. And according to his office he did ordaine other Bi&s;hops, and they had power to ordaine o|thers accordingly. This power hath &s;ucce&s;&s;iuely continued in our Church mo&s;t truly according to the <HI>Cannon</HI> of the church, to this very day; for <HI>Cranmor</HI> was ordained by authority, from the Bi&s;hop of <HI>Rome,</HI> by three <HI>Popi&s;h</HI> Bi&s;hops, and he be|ing <HI>Metropolitane:</HI> by the a&s;&s;i&s;tance of other Bi&s;hops, did or|daine other Bi&s;hops all the raigne of <HI>King Henry</HI> the eight. And when the happy time came, of Gods mercifull provi|dence and goodne&s;&s;e to this Nation, that there &s;hould be a more perfect reformation in King <HI>Edwards</HI> dayes, the Idola|trous Prie&s;thood was taken away. Yet &s;uch Bi&s;hops as were ordained in King <HI>Henryes</HI> time, by <HI>Cranmor</HI> and other Bi&s;hops a&s;&s;i&s;tance, as would renounce Popery, were &s;till Bi&s;hops in King <HI>Edwards</HI> dayes without reordination: and &s;o likewi&s;e, &s;ome Bi&s;hops in King <HI>Edwards</HI> dayes, that turned to Popery, were received &amp; continued Bi&s;hops in Queene <HI>Maryes</HI> daies, without reordination. And al&s;o in Queene <HI>Elizabeths</HI> dayes, Popi&s;h Bi&s;hops renouncing Popery, &s;till continued Bi&s;hops, without reordination. As for example, I will name one, by name <HI>Antony Kitchin,</HI> a man more fitt to be a Scullion in a kit|chin then a Bi&s;hop of &s;oules. Yet I hope God gaue him repen|cance, becau&s;e he died in the ble&s;&s;ed time of reformation. In
<PB REF="73">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="129" REF="73">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="130" REF="74"> Queene <HI>Elizabeths</HI> dayes, in the fifth yeare of her raigne, this <HI>Antony Kitchin,</HI> in King <HI>Henrys</HI> dayes was made Bi&s;hop of <HI>Lan|daff,</HI> kept his dignities and place in King <HI>Edwards</HI> dayes, con|tinued the &s;ame all the raigne of Queene <HI>Mary:</HI> and &s;o till the day of his death, which was in the 5. of Queene <HI>Elizabeth.</HI> This me thinks &s;hould giue &s;atisfaction to the con&s;cience of all private men in our Kingdome: That the Church of great Britaine is a true Church of Chri&s;t, even by this marke, of which the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> doth &s;o much glory, I meane the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Pa&s;tours and Bi&s;hops, for we haue a lineall &s;uc|ce&s;&s;ion of Bi&s;hops as well as they; and even from them, &s;o that if theirs be good, &s;o is ours. And therefore this &s;hould &s;topp the mouthes and &s;tay the penns al&s;o of your wicked writters a|gain&s;t our Church, e&s;pecially of that fearefull vilde Libellour. Who &s;aith, that the Prote&s;tants haue no faith, no hope, no charity, no repentance, no ju&s;tification, no Church, no alter, no &s;acrifice, no prie&s;ts, no religion, no Chri&s;t. What &s;hould a man &s;ay to him, and the re&s;t; Intemperat &s;pirits that they are, they doe bla&s;pheame Chri&s;t Ie&s;us the ble&s;&s;ed Saviour of man|kinde, for in his name is our Church of England gathered. They doe bla&s;pheame his Temple and Tabernacle, which he hath pitched among&s;t vs: even our Church and whole Reli|gion, whereby we are knit vnto God. If they of malice &s;peake thus, then I &s;ay with <HI>Michael</HI> the Arch-angell, <HI>the Lord re|buke them,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Iude 9.</NOTE> but if they &s;peake of ignorance, as I hope they doe; Then I &s;ay with the ble&s;&s;ed Martyr <HI>Steven, Lord lay not this &s;inne to their charge.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Acts 7.60. Luk. 23.24.</NOTE> Or our ble&s;&s;ed Saviour Chri&s;t, <HI>Father for|giue them, they know not what they doe.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I will proue anon to your face, that your Bi&s;hops of England be no Bi&s;hops, but Fir&s;t can you proue this lineall &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of your Bi|&s;hops?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I referr you for proofe, to Mai&s;ter <HI>Ma&s;ons</HI> booke of &s;uc|ce&s;&s;ion of Bi&s;hops, where you &s;hall &s;ee the lineall de&s;cent both of the <HI>Metropolitane</HI> Bi&s;hops of <HI>Canterbury</HI> and <HI>Yorke,</HI> and o|ther Bi&s;hops exactly proved by authenticall records of ordina|tion. But I &s;ay, this proofe of our &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of per&s;ons and place were nothing, if we did not &s;ucceed in the &s;aving Doc|trine
<PB REF="74"> of &s;alvation revealed by the Sonne of God, Chri&s;t Ie&s;us our Lord and Saviour, without the ble&s;&s;ed truth of &s;alvation, we &s;hould bee no better then painted Boxes in <HI>Apotcearies</HI> &s;hops, which are without good &s;ollid matter in them, or like a faire Casket, who&s;e Iewels are gon. But thankes be to God, we &s;ucceed in that which is the e&s;&s;entiall life of a true vi&s;ible Church of Chri&s;t, which is the &s;aving Doctrine of &s;alvati|on.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What you haue hitherto &s;ayed in defence of your Bi&s;hops, to proue the lawfullne&s;&s;e of them, is nothing, becau&s;e to the very being of a Bi&s;hop: the order of Prie&s;thood, is e&s;pecially required which is not to be found in the Church of England, and therefore the want of Prie&s;thood over-throweth the very e&s;&s;ence of your Bi&s;hops.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer if you meane no more by Prie&s;ts, then the holy Gho&s;t doth by Presbyter, that is, the mini&s;ter of the newe Te&s;tament, then we profe&s;&s;e, and are ready to proue that our Bi&s;hops and Mini&s;ters are &s;uch, as they are called, in the booke of Common prayers, and forme of ordering, becau&s;e they re|ceiue in their ordination, authority to preach the word of God, and to admini&s;ter the holy Sacraments. Secondly, if by Prie&s;ts, you meane &s;acrificing Prie&s;ts, and would expound your &s;elues of &s;pirituall &s;acrifices; then this name as it belongs to all Chri&s;tians, &s;o it may be applyed to the Mini&s;ters, but if you meane by a prie&s;t, a &s;acrificer vnto God, for the quicke and the dead; whereby the Mini&s;ters of the new Te&s;tament are Prie&s;ts properly: and in the Sacrament, he offers Chri&s;ts body and bloud to God the father, really, properly, or bodily for the remi&s;&s;ion of &s;innes. This Prie&s;thood, and your Ma&s;&s;es, for the quicke and the dead, the Church of England condem|neth as bla&s;phemous, fal&s;e, and dangerous deceits. The Church of England teacheth thus according to the Scriptures; <HI>viz.</HI> the offring of Chri&s;t, once made, is that perfect redemption, pro|pitiation and &s;atisfaction for all the &s;innes of the whole world, both originall and actuall, and there is no other &s;atisfaction, but that alone once made: <HI>And that Chri&s;t offered him&s;elfe but once,</HI> looke <HI>Heb.</HI> 9 15. and ver&s;e 10. and that Chri&s;t is the one|ly Prie&s;t, having an eternall prie&s;thood, which cannot pa&s;&s;e
<PB REF="75"> from him to any other, looke <HI>Heb.</HI> 7.24.25. And thus I haue proved our Church, by your marke of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, both of place and per&s;ons, to be a true Church of Chri&s;t; but princi|pally by our marke, which is infallible, that is &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of doctrine. Now for our &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Bi&s;hops from King <HI>Hen|ry</HI> the 8. till this day; It cannot with hone&s;ty be denied, as I haue before declared, and is confe&s;&s;ed in generall by one of yours, who&s;e name is <HI>Cud&s;emius,</HI> who came into England in the yeare of our Lord, 1608. to ob&s;erue the &s;tate of our Church, and the orders of our Vniver&s;ities; concerning the &s;tate &s;aith he, of <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">he <HI>Calvinian</HI> &s;eat in England, it &s;o &s;tandeth, that it may either endure long, or be changed &s;uddenly in a trice: In regard of the Catholike order therein, a perpetuall line of their Bi&s;hops, and the lawfull &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Pa&s;tors, re|ceived from the Church. Behold he confe&s;&s;eth we haue the Catholike order. Secondly, a perpetuall line of Bi&s;hops. Third|ly, a lawfull &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Pa&s;tors, and that derived from the Church: But withall I would haue you to know, that though our Bi&s;hops and Pa&s;tors received it from the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> yet with a double difference. For fir&s;t, <HI>Cranmor</HI> and the re&s;t received their orders from Popi&s;h Bi&s;hops, in a Popi&s;h man|ner, defiled with many popi&s;h pollutions; but when it plea&s;ed God to open their eyes, they pared away the pollutions, and re|taining that which was good, delivered it to po&s;teritie. So our Pa&s;tors &s;ucceede yours in their orders not &s;imply, but to farre as they are agreeable to the Scriptures, for the man of &s;inne did &s;it in the Temple of God; and <HI>Antechri&s;t</HI> had v&s;urped the chaire of Chri&s;t, even in this kingdome, &s;o that then good things &amp; bad were mingled together. Therefore in that which yours received fro~ Chri&s;t, our Pa&s;tors willingly &s;ucceed them. In that which your Bi&s;hops received from <HI>Antichri&s;t,</HI> ours doe renounce and di&s;claime. Secondly, <HI>Cranmor</HI> and the re&s;t, recei|ved &s;hels of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, without carnels of true doctrine: for though your Church did giue power to preach the truth, yet being bewitched with <HI>Antichri&s;t</HI> in many things, it did not reveale the truth: but when God by the &s;criptures revealed it vnto them, they both preached it them&s;elues, and co~mended
<PB REF="75"> it to po&s;terity. Neither was this by &s;chi&s;me to leape out of the Church, but out of corruption in the Church; even as the wheat carnell, when it is clean&s;ed, leapeth not out of the Barne, but out of the chaffe.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well Seiniour</HI> George: <HI>haue you ended the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of your Bi&s;hops.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Yes &s;urely, and I thinke in &s;uch a rea&s;onable manner, in a weake mea&s;ure, (yet truely according to the word of God) as may giue &s;atisfaction to godly mindes. That our Church of Great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> is a true Church of Chri&s;t, and that none without the &s;inne of Schi&s;me, being in the precincts thereof, may &s;eperate from it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Time hath brought vs now, to our Church, the Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>which is the true Mother Church; as appeareth by this marke, which never wanted a true &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of</HI> Popes <HI>and</HI> Bi|&s;hops, <HI>&s;ince the Apo&s;tles times, and e&s;pecially, &s;ince the Apo&s;tle S.</HI> Peter <HI>was their Pope and Bi&s;hop, about the &s;pace of</HI> 25 <HI>yeares.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>From whence doe you deriue your &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Bi&s;hops and Pa&s;tors?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>From S.</HI> Peter <HI>the Apo&s;tle, for he is the fountaine of all &s;piri|tuall Iuri&s;diction, which I will proue by the divine law of Chri&s;t him&s;elfe.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>You, nor all the pack of your Ie&s;uites, is never able to conclude this by law divine, I pray let me heare your proofe, that <HI>Peter</HI> was inve&s;ted in this right, by divine law.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>The Scripture is full of proofes and te&s;timonies, declaring both his lawfull authority, and his due execution thereof. Fir&s;t, for his authority, the promi&s;e of the Keyes, and the commi&s;&s;ion of feeding the &s;heepe doth proue it directly. Fir&s;t, for the promi&s;e of the keyes; The&s;e wordes declare, which our Saviour Chri&s;t &s;pake to</HI> Peter, I will giue thee the keyes of the Kingdome of heaven;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Mat. 16.19.</NOTE> <HI>Chri&s;t gaue him not one, but two keyes,</HI> viz. <HI>the key of knowledge, and the key of power. Fir&s;t, by the key of knowledge, he was able to open all Scripture and controver&s;ies of Religion: Secondly, he had the key of power, and this is of Order and Iuri&s;diction: by this key, he was able to ordaine Bi&s;hops and Pa&s;tors of the Church; and againe to locke them out of the Mini&s;terie, by depo&s;ing and degrading as occa&s;ion re|quired;
<PB REF="76"> by the key of Iuri&s;diction, he might open and &s;hut both the outward court, by excommunications, ab&s;olution, di&s;pen&s;ation, cal|ling generall coun&s;els &amp;c. and the court of con&s;cience, by forgiving and retaining &s;innes. In a word, in the&s;e keyes, all eccle&s;ia&s;ticall pow|er was comprehended, and given to</HI> Peter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>And is this jurisdiction of <HI>Peter,</HI> and of his &s;uppo&s;ed &s;uc|ce&s;&s;ours a ground and foundation of your religion?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">ver&s;e 8.</NOTE><HI>Yes &s;urely, for our Saviour &s;aith,</HI> Vpon this rock wil I build my Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I will make a little preamble before I come to di&s;pute, and di&s;cu&s;&s;e the&s;e points. This is our happines in our Church, that although Sathan, hath greatly prevailed with vs, that many of our Pa&s;tours, Governors, and people, haue run into &s;candall to the great griefe of the godly of our religion, by an vngodly, and di&s;&s;olute, and corrupted cour&s;e of life, which haue cau&s;ed our enemies to bla&s;pheame our holy reli|gion: Yet he hath not prevailed, &s;ince the time of our happy and ble&s;&s;ed reformation, to be a lying &s;pirit in the mouthes of our Pa&s;tours and Prophets: and if at any time he hath prevail|ed with &s;ome private Mini&s;ters, to broach any dangerous er|ror, pre&s;ently he is refelled by the Iudicious and godly Pa|&s;tours of our Church, and that by the &s;word of the &s;pirit, which is the word of God, and ble&s;&s;ed be God, our Iudicious and wi&s;e King, together with the &s;ubordinate civill powers vn|der him. By the &s;word of Magi&s;tracy, doe joyne with them to the &s;uppre&s;&s;ing of &s;uch errors, if at any time, they be pub|likely preached among&s;t vs. But &s;uch is the fearefull e&s;tate of the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> through Gods ju&s;t judgment, that Sathan hath prevailed to be a lying &s;pirit, in the mouthes of the mo&s;t of their Pa&s;tours, and that for many hundred of yeares toge|ther. And therefore I would wi&s;h you Signior <HI>Philip,</HI> and all private men, to try by the ble&s;&s;ed and infallible touch-&s;tone of the written word of God, the &s;pirit of the Church, whither it be of God or not. For you &s;hall finde, that that Church, by the Doctrine thereof, doth oppo&s;e the truth of God, revealed by his &s;onn Chri&s;t Ie&s;us our Lord, in many grounds of &s;aving truth, e&s;pecially by this point of the &s;upremacie of <HI>Peter,</HI> over
<PB N="135" REF="76"> the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles. And his &s;uppo&s;ed &s;ucce&s;&s;ion the Popes of <HI>Rome,</HI> ouer the Catholike Church, and the whole World. Therefore let vs &s;eriou&s;ly con&s;ider tho&s;e la&s;t recited &s;criptures, for the proofe of the Pops &s;upremacy, out of which I &s;ay, you cannot conclude his juri&s;diction.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Marry the place which I la&s;t recited was in this words.</HI> Vp|on this rocke will I build my Church, <HI>which words are meant of Peter; therefore hee is the rocke and the foundation of the Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I deny that <HI>Peter</HI> is the rocke of the Church,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Reue. 11.14</NOTE> but I con|fe&s;&s;e that he is a rocke of the Church, as the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles and Prophets were. For the Church is founded vpon the Doctrine of the Apo&s;tles, <HI>Ie&s;us Chri&s;t being the head corner &s;tone.</HI> Now I &s;ay, that both <HI>Peter,</HI> and the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles and Prophets, were not in their per&s;ons foundation &s;tones, but in re&s;pect of their Doctrine and mini&s;try, for Chri&s;t him|&s;elfe aboue, is the per&s;onall and e&s;&s;entiall foundation of the Church, and it is no better then bla&s;phemy to make any other per&s;on; or per&s;ons to be the rocke and foundation of the Church. If the Pope wil needs be a rocke or foundation of the Church, let him doe as <HI>Peter</HI> and the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles, and all good Pa&s;ttours doe, viz. Vphold the Church by a con&s;tant preaching of whol&s;ome and &s;ound Doctrine, el&s;e hee is not &s;o much as a little &s;tone in the building: But this is to hard a taske for him.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, what doe you &s;ay to tho&s;e places of &s;cripture I haue aledg|ed for Peters &s;upremacy?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I haue told you before, that Chri&s;t the &s;onne of God, the &s;econd per&s;on in Trinity, being perfect God and man, is the foundation of the Church, and &s;o is, and ever hath beene, and ever &s;hall be the &s;trong foundation of the Church: the Metaphor of rocke and &s;tone, is v&s;ed to &s;hew the &s;trength and everla&s;ting continuance of this, building, the Apo&s;tles and Prophets, and all faithfull teachers, are all by their pure and vncorrupted Doctrine mini&s;teriall foundations of this build|ing, and all faithfull Chri&s;tians are &s;tones of this building: but <HI>Ie&s;us Chri&s;t is the head corner &s;tone,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Pet. 2.5. 1 Pet. 2 6.7. Act. 4.11.</NOTE> which the whole frame of the Church in all ages, did re&s;t vpon. Now I will come to the
<PB N="138" REF="77"> text you la&s;t alledged: There was a que&s;tion there prop&s;ed by Chri&s;t, to all his Apo&s;tles, and not to <HI>Peter</HI> alone, whom &s;aith our Saviour, <HI>&s;ay ye that I am?</HI> This que&s;tion was an&s;wered by <HI>Peter,</HI> in the name of all the re&s;t: Thou art the &s;onne of the liv|ing God. Wherevpon in the 18: ver&s;e &s;aith our Saviour, vp|on this rocke will I build my Church. Now your Church doth vnder&s;tand it of <HI>Peter,</HI> and ours, vpon the object of <HI>Peter</HI> and the other Apo&s;tles faith, which was Chri&s;t to bee the Son of the living God. Now con&s;idering that the Apo&s;tle hath &s;aid, as I haue before related; that other foundation can no man lay, then that which is laid, which is Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, and he being in many places of &s;criptures called the head corner &s;tone of the Church, and the foundation of the Church; Then I marvell the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> dare interpret it the per|&s;on of <HI>Peter</HI> and his &s;ucce&s;&s;ors: doe they not &s;ee they make our Saviour an vnperfect rocke and foundation of the Church, when they add to him the per&s;on of <HI>Peter,</HI> and his &s;uppo&s;ed &s;ucce&s;&s;ors as a &s;upply?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, to the other words of our Saviour,</HI> whom &s;ay ye that I am? <HI>This que&s;tion was an&s;wered by</HI> Peter <HI>in the&s;e words,</HI> Thou art Chri&s;t the &s;onne of the living God: <HI>our Saviour telleth</HI> Peter <HI>that he was happy, and in the</HI> 18: <HI>ver&s;e, thou art</HI> Peter, <HI>and vpon this rocke will I build my Church;</HI> and the gates of hell &s;hall not prevaile again&s;t it. <HI>And I will giue thee the keyes of the kingdome of heaven, and what&s;oever thou &s;halt binde on earth, &s;hall be bound in heaven: and what&s;oever thou &s;halt lo&s;e on earth, &s;halbe lo&s;ed in heaven. The&s;e words doe &s;hew that</HI> Peter <HI>had a greater Iuri&s;diction and power then all the other Apo&s;tles, and therefore he had a &s;upre|macy aboue them all.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I an&s;wer that the keyes were given to the re&s;t of the Apo|&s;tles as well as to <HI>Peter;</HI> for the que&s;tion being propo&s;ed by our Saviour, <HI>whom &s;ay ye that I? am</HI> the an&s;were was made by <HI>Peter,</HI> thou art Chri&s;t the &s;onne of the living God. Wherevpon M^r: <HI>Ma&s;on</HI> &s;aith, that S. <HI>Au&s;tin</HI> ob&s;erved that <HI>Peter</HI> alone made an&s;were for all the Apo&s;tles: and his ob&s;ervation is according to the &s;criptures, which te&s;tifieth that <HI>Peter</HI> before this time had an&s;wered in the name of them all. <HI>We beleeue and know that
<PB N="137" REF="77"> thou art the Chri&s;t the &s;onne of the living God.</HI> Now as <HI>Peter</HI> an|&s;wereth one for all, &s;o Chri&s;t &s;aid to <HI>Peter,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Iohn 6.69.</NOTE> and in him to them all. <HI>I will giue you the keyes of the kingdom of heaven.</HI> Thus the Fa|thers interpret the place, as <HI>Au&s;tin, Peter</HI> receaved the keyes to|gether with them all; &amp; <HI>Ierom,</HI> they al receiue the keyes; &amp; <HI>Ori|gen,</HI> the keyes were common to al; &amp; <HI>Hillary,</HI> they obtained the keyes of the kingdome of heauen; and <HI>Ambro&s;e;</HI> what is &s;aid to <HI>Peter,</HI> is &s;aid to the Apo&s;tles. This con&s;ent of the Fathers, &s;hould over-balance your opinion again&s;t the coun&s;ell of <HI>Trent.</HI> Indeede your Prie&s;ts and Ie&s;uits, make the World be|leeue that you will be judged by the Fathers; But when it commeth to the tryall, your Prie&s;ts for&s;ake them. The Fathers mu&s;t be pretended for a fa&s;hion: but your holy father the Pope of <HI>Rome,</HI> is the very needle and compa&s;&s;e, whereby you &s;ayle. I might further rea&s;on with you by Mai&s;ter <HI>Ma&s;ons</HI> booke; where it is proved both by &s;criptures, and by Fathers, and by your owne writers, that the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles received their Iuri&s;diction immediately from Chri&s;t, and not from <HI>Peter;</HI> But I will giue you &s;ome &s;hort and invincible arguments to &s;hew you, that the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles had equall power, with the Apo&s;tle Saint <HI>Peter.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Come on I pray let me heare them, me thinkes, you &s;hould not dare to doe this, that you doe, being &s;o &s;imple a man.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I pray God that I may be truely &s;imple and innocent in the Lords cau&s;e without deceit. Our Saviour Chri&s;t after his a&s;cen&s;ion gaue gifts vnto men, for the repairing of the Saints, by the worke of the Mini&s;try, and Saint <HI>Paul</HI> nameth their Offices; which were <HI>&s;ome Apo&s;tles, &s;ome Prophets, &s;ome Evan|geli&s;ts, &s;ome Pa&s;tors and Teachers.</HI> I marvell,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 4.11.</NOTE> <HI>Paul</HI> in this place left out the Vicar general; he that is the mini&s;teriall head, &amp; Chri&s;ts Deputy of the Catholike Church: Why did he not mention him in this place, it being &s;o fitting, if there had beene any &s;uch great office? Sure here it was meete, that he &s;hould haue beene mentioned with his gifts, fitting &s;o great a place, this argueth, &s;urely there is no &s;uch office, and therefore wee re|ject it.</P>
<P>The Second rea&s;on or argument is this, Chri&s;t is perfect God
<PB N="138" REF="78"> together with the Father, and the Holy Gho&s;t; and &s;o he hath Vice-gerents, to governe the world; as namely, Kings and Princes, and they are his In&s;truments, for he &s;aith, <HI>by me Kings raigne, and decree Iu&s;tice:</HI> but Chri&s;t is al&s;o a Mediator of his redeemed ones; a King of his Church and cho&s;en ones: and in this office, he hath neither fellow nor deputy. For none is capable of this office: if he &s;hould haue a fellow, as you in your Religion, make your Popes to be, he &s;hould be then an vnperfect Mediator, and he can haue no Deputy; for what man can <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ee capable of his offices, to doe in the roome and &s;tead of Chri&s;t, that which he doth? becau&s;e his workes, are workes of a Mediator, which are compound workes, ari&s;ing of the effects of his two natures, concurring in one, and the &s;ame ac|tion, both from his Godhead, and from his manhood, and therefore to the effecting of this worke, there mu&s;t nece&s;&s;arily be required an infinite power, which far exceeds the &s;trength of any created nature. The third rea&s;on, may be drawne from his ble&s;&s;ed promi&s;e, of his ble&s;&s;ed pre&s;ence, Chri&s;t &s;aith all pow|er is given vnto mee in heaven and on earth. <HI>Goe therefore,</HI> &s;aith he to the Apo&s;tles, <HI>and teach all Nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Sonne, and Holy Gho&s;t, teaching them to ob&s;erue all things what&s;oever I haue commanded you:</HI> which is el&s;e where, commanded by other phra&s;es; <HI>as feeding his &s;heepe,</HI> and to the worke of feeding his &s;heepe, and teaching, and baptizing. In the la&s;t ver&s;e, he &s;aith, <HI>Loe I am with you, to the end of the world;</HI> and el&s;e hee &s;ayth, <HI>where</HI> 2. <HI>or</HI> 3. <HI>are ga|thered together in my name, there am I in the mid&s;t of them.</HI> Now &s;eeing hee is pre&s;ent in e&s;peciall manner by promi&s;e, what neede he to haue a Deputy, of an vniver&s;all Iuri&s;diction, to &s;upply his ab&s;ence. <HI>Ergo,</HI> there is no &s;uch Iuri&s;diction nor &s;upremacy given to <HI>Peter,</HI> and his &s;uppo&s;ed &s;ucce&s;&s;ors the Popes. Nay in the exerci&s;e of the keyes of binding and loo|&s;ing, and excommunications, the Pa&s;tors and Church are but his In&s;truments, and he him&s;elfe the principall agent. The 4. argument is this, when the &s;onnes of <HI>Zebedeus</HI> &s;ued vnto Chri&s;t for the greate&s;t roomes of honour in his Kingdome, thinking hee &s;hould be an earthly King, Chri&s;t an&s;wereth them, <HI>Ye know, that the Lords of the Gentiles haue dominion, and
<PB N="139" REF="78"> they that are great, exerci&s;e authoritie over them, but it &s;hall not be &s;o with you:</HI> Will you heare what M. <HI>Perkins</HI> &s;aith out of an ancient Father, &s;peaking again&s;t one of your Popes, <HI>Eugenius</HI> by name; the Father was Saint <HI>Bernard,</HI> who applyed the&s;e wordes to Pope <HI>Eugenius, It is plaine,</HI> &s;aith <HI>Bernard, that here dominion is forbidden the Apo&s;tles.</HI> Goe to then, dare if you will, to take vpon you ruling an Apo&s;tle&s;hip; or in your Apo&s;tle|&s;hip, rule or dominion: if you will haue both alike, you &s;hall loo&s;e both, otherwi&s;e you mu&s;t not thinke your &s;elfe exemp|ted from the number of them, of whom the Lord complaineth thus, they haue raigned, but not of me: they haue beene, but I haue not knowne them. It is cleere by that which hath beene &s;ayd, that <HI>Peter</HI> the Apo&s;tle had no power of Iuri&s;diction o|ver the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles; nor over the Catholike Church, no further then the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles had; for they all had equally authority immediately from Chri&s;t, <HI>to preach, and bap|tize all nations.</HI> Your learned Cardinall <HI>Bellarmine</HI> him&s;elfe, doth confe&s;&s;e that all the Apo&s;tles receiue their Iuri&s;diction immediately from Chri&s;t, and therefor not from S. <HI>Peter.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>We confe&s;&s;e that all receiue the keyes, but Chri&s;t gaue them</HI> Peter <HI>immediately, to the re&s;t by</HI> Peter. <HI>So all power both of order, and iuri&s;diction proceeded from</HI> Peter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>But your learned cardinall by foure arguments proveth, that they all receiued their juri&s;diction immediately from Chri&s;t; Fir&s;t he proveth it by the&s;e words of Chri&s;t. As my father &s;ent me, &s;o I &s;end you; which expo&s;ition hee &s;trength|neth by the authorities of <HI>Chry&s;o&s;tom, Theophylact, Cyrill,</HI> and <HI>Cyprian.</HI> By the evidence whereof, he affirmeth that the &s;ame things were given to the Apo&s;tles, by the&s;e words; <HI>I &s;end you,</HI> which was promi&s;ed to <HI>Peter</HI> by the&s;e words. I will giue thee the keyes, and after delivered by the&s;e words; <HI>feede my &s;heepe:</HI> And addeth, it is cleare that by the&s;e; <HI>I will giue thee the keyes:</HI> and by this &s;aying, <HI>feede my &s;heepe;</HI> there is vnder&s;tood a mo&s;t full juri&s;diction even in the outward court. Secondly, he pro|veth it by <HI>Matthias,</HI> who was neither elect by the Apo&s;tles, nor received any authority by them: But being elected by God, was pre&s;ently accounted among&s;t the Apo&s;tles; and ve|rily
<PB N="140" REF="79"> &s;aith he; If all the Apo&s;tles had their juri&s;diction from <HI>Peter,</HI> that &s;hould haue bin manife&s;ted mo&s;t of all in <HI>Matthias.</HI> Thirdly, he proveth it by Saint <HI>Paul;</HI> who profe&s;&s;eth that he had his juri&s;diction from Chri&s;t, and thence confirmeth his Apo&s;tle-&s;hip;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gala. 1.1. ver&s;e 15.</NOTE> for he &s;aith, <HI>Paul an Apo&s;tle, not of man, nor by man, but by Ie&s;us Chri&s;t. Gal:</HI> 1.1. <HI>ver&s;e</HI> 15. And that he might declare that he received no authority from <HI>Peter,</HI> or any other Apo&s;tle, he &s;aith; <HI>When it plea&s;ed God which had &s;eperated me from my mothers wombe: and called me by his grace, to reveale his &s;onne in me, that I &s;hould preach him among the Gentils. Immedi|atly I communicated not with fle&s;h and bloud; neither, came I againe to Ieru&s;alem, to them which were Apo&s;tles before mee. But I went into</HI> Arabia, <HI>and turned againe to</HI> Dama&s;cus, <HI>then after</HI> 3. <HI>yeares I came againe to</HI> Ieru&s;alem, <HI>to vi&s;it Peter.</HI> And againe hee &s;aith; To me tho&s;e that &s;eemed to be &s;ome-thing, conferred nothing. Fourthly and la&s;tly, he proveth it, becau&s;e the Apo&s;tles were made onely by Chri&s;t, and yet had juri&s;diction; As appear|eth. Fir&s;t, by Saint <HI>Paul,</HI> Excommunicating the <HI>Corinthians.</HI> Secondly, by the &s;ame <HI>Paul,</HI> making Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall lawes. Thirdly, becau&s;e the Apo&s;tolike dignity, is the highe&s;t digni|ty in the Church; wherefore it is evident, that the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles received not their power of juri&s;diction from <HI>Peter,</HI> but from Chri&s;t. Thus you may &s;ee what a dangerous thing it is to receiue Articles of faith from the Church of <HI>Rome;</HI> yea, though they &s;eeme to produce them out of &s;cripture. Much more when &s;hee vrgeth articles of faith of her owne hatching without &s;cripture. Therefore we that are private men, had neede to be carefull to try all things, and keepe that which is good; as the Apo&s;tle advi&s;eth, lea&s;t we be deceived.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I doe not thinke that</HI> Bellarmin <HI>did &s;ay all this again&s;t the Iu|ri&s;diction of</HI> Peter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I referre you to Ma&s;ter <HI>Ma&s;ons</HI> booke of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, the 4. booke: the 149. page where you &s;hall in the margent &s;ee <HI>Bellarmines</HI> booke cited for the proofe thereof. But let vs pro|ceede; admit that <HI>Peter</HI> had &s;uch a prerogatiue by the divine law of Chri&s;t, what is that to the Pope?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I an&s;wer that the</HI> Pope <HI>is the &s;ucce&s;&s;or of</HI> Peter; <HI>Therefore
<PB N="141" REF="79"> what power &s;oever belongeth to</HI> S. Peter; <HI>doth &s;o to the</HI> Pope.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Was not S. <HI>Peter</HI> an Apo&s;tle? Can there be &s;ucce&s;&s;ion in the Apo&s;tle-&s;hipe?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Our Doctor</HI> Stapleton <HI>teacheth, that of the Apo&s;tle-&s;hip there is no &s;ucce&s;&s;ion.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then the Pope doth ill, to adorne him&s;elfe with Apo|&s;tolique titles; his Sea Apo&s;tolique, his Legat Apo&s;tolique, his Pardon Apo&s;tolique, his Seale Apo&s;tolique, his Bull Apo|&s;talque, and all Apo&s;talique. Thus you &s;ee by his lying titles, what manner of head hee is of the Catholike Church; what a mi&s;ery is this to the Church? Yea, his office is an Apo&s;tle &s;hip, Cau&s;es mu&s;t be heard by his Apo&s;tle-&s;hip; Weighty matters mu&s;t be re&s;erued to his Apo&s;tle-&s;hip; Bi&s;hops mu&s;t vi&s;ite the Thre&s;hold of the Apo&s;tles, vnle&s;&s;e they be di&s;pen&s;ed withall, by the Apo&s;tles, and that is by the Pope. I will &s;ay no more, what Ma&s;ter <HI>Ma&s;ons</HI> booke relates of his wicked titles, but this I will &s;ay out of his booke; that we hope, God will rai&s;e &s;uch Angels in our Church, as he was in the Church of <HI>Ephe|&s;us:</HI> Of whom it is written, that he had tryed them; who &s;ay they are Apo&s;tles and are not, and had found them lyers. Be|fore we proceede any further in rea&s;oning about the power of the Pope, I will &s;hew you wherein the Bi&s;hops and Pa&s;tours doe &s;ucceede the Apo&s;tles, and wherein they doe not. For this I would haue you con&s;ider with me, that in the Apo&s;tles, &s;ome things were extraordinary, and &s;ome things ordinary. They had 4. Extraordinary prerogatiues. Fir&s;t, they were Im|mediately called by Chri&s;t him&s;elfe. Secondly, they had an vnlimited commi&s;&s;ion, to teach and baptize all nations. Third|ly, they had an infallible direction by the Spirit, both in prea|ching and in writing that they could not erre. Fourthly, they had power to worke Myracles. All which were nece&s;&s;ary for the fir&s;t planting of Churches, but were not all conveyed to po&s;terity by &s;ucce&s;&s;ion. Other things they had, which were nece&s;&s;ary for the Church in all future ages; in which they had &s;ucce&s;&s;ors. As fir&s;t, they had power to mini&s;ter the word and Sacraments; wherein every private Mini&s;ter &s;ucceeded them. Secondly, they ordained mini&s;ters, executed cen&s;ures,
<PB N="142" REF="80"> and other things belonging to the government of the Church, wherein every Bi&s;hop &s;ucceeded them; &s;o that in the latter, the re&s;t had &s;ucce&s;&s;ors as well as <HI>Peter.</HI> In the former, the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles had no &s;ucce&s;&s;ors: no more had <HI>Peter.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, what&s;oever you haue &s;ayed, I will proue in</HI> Peters <HI>prac|ti&s;es, his Iuri&s;dicton aboue the other Apo&s;tles, and the Pope hath &s;ucceeded</HI> Peter, <HI>in the exerci&s;e of his &s;upremacy ever &s;ince; That</HI> Peter <HI>had iuri&s;dictio~ more then the other Apo&s;tles, is manife&s;t by the third</HI> Synod, <HI>held at Ieru&s;alem, in the yeare of Chri&s;t</HI> 51. <HI>Where indeede Saint</HI> Peter <HI>&s;hewed him&s;elfe. For he &s;pake fir&s;t and la&s;t, and S.</HI> Iames, <HI>and all the re&s;t yeelded to his &s;entence.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Not one of all the&s;e points is true but fal&s;e, I pray ob|&s;erue, that <HI>Peter</HI> &s;poke not fir&s;t, is cleare by the&s;e words; when there had Bin much di&s;putation, <HI>Peter</HI> ro&s;e vp and &s;ayd; and that he &s;pake not la&s;t,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Act. 15.7. ver&s;e 12.13. &amp; 20.</NOTE> appeareth al&s;o. For the text mentioneth no &s;peech of his but one; after him &s;poke <HI>Paul</HI> and <HI>Barnabas:</HI> and then Saint <HI>Iames;</HI> and the Coun&s;ell concluded the mat|ter according to the word of Saint <HI>Iames,</HI> yea, according to a &s;peciall point, not mentioned by Saint <HI>Peter;</HI> neither were the acts of the Coun&s;ell &s;et out in the name of <HI>Peter,</HI> but a <HI>Synodall</HI> Epi&s;tle was &s;ent from them all; neither did Saint <HI>Peter</HI> &s;ub|&s;cribe vnto it; I <HI>Peter,</HI> the Vicar of Chri&s;t, the Prince of the Apo&s;tles, the vi&s;ible head, and ordinary Pa&s;tor of the Church; but he was onely put in among&s;t the re&s;t, in the&s;e words; <HI>It &s;eemeth good vnto the holy Gho&s;t and vnto vs.</HI> Where is now his &s;upreame authority?<NOTE PLACE="marg">ver&s;e 28.</NOTE> If ever he &s;hould haue challenged it, this had bin the time; this was the place: e&s;pecially &s;eeing he was pre&s;ent, not by his legat, but in his owne per&s;on. If now he had challenged it; his &s;ucce&s;&s;ors for ever might quietly haue enjoyed it. What did he meane thus to forget him&s;elfe, and to prejudice po&s;terity? And as the Apo&s;tolicall <HI>Synods</HI> recei|ved not their authority from him, &s;o neither did the Apo&s;tles them&s;elues, &s;everally con&s;idered; as is evident in Saint <HI>Paule,</HI> excommunicating the ince&s;tuous <HI>Corinthian;</HI> &s;ee by what au|thority he did it,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 5.3.</NOTE> I verily &s;aith Saint <HI>Paul,</HI> as ab&s;ent in body, but pre&s;ent in &s;pirit, haue determined already as though I were pre&s;ent, that he that hath &s;o done this deede in the name of
<PB REF="80"> the Lord Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, you being gathered together, and my &s;pirit with you, with the power of the Lord Ie&s;us Chri&s;t bee delivered vnto Sathan; He &s;aith not the &s;pirit of Saint <HI>Peter:</HI> but my &s;pirit; &s;o that your vi&s;ible head, had neither hand nor foote in this action. Saint <HI>Paul</HI> acknowledgeth neither &s;ubor|dination vnto him&s;elfe, nor derivation of authority from him. And as he had juri&s;diction, &s;o had <HI>Timothy</HI> &amp; <HI>Titus,</HI> to receiue accu&s;ations, and to commaunde them not to teach any other Doctrine; If they did, to &s;top their mouthes.<NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Tim. 5.19. 1 Tim. 2 3. Titu. 5.1.11.</NOTE> All which pla|ces, are to be expounded of Iudiciall proceeding in the con&s;i|&s;tory, and argue a juri&s;diction in <HI>Titus</HI> and <HI>Timothy,</HI> which &s;o farre as we can learne, they received from Saint <HI>Paul,</HI> and not from Saint <HI>Peter;</HI> Wherefore we conclude, that Saint <HI>Peter</HI> was not the onely fountaine vnder Chri&s;t, of &s;pirituall ju|ri&s;diction by the Law of God; but the twelue Apo&s;tles, were twelue fountaines, all equally derived from Chri&s;t Ie&s;us, the fountaine of fountaines; but that is nothing to the Pope: If <HI>Peter</HI> had &s;uch prerogatiue by divine law.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I tell you the Pope &s;ucceeded</HI> Peter, <HI>not as he is an Apo&s;tle, but as he is the ordinary Pa&s;tor of the Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then he &s;ucceeded not <HI>Peter</HI> in all his right, but haue not other Apo&s;tles &s;ucce&s;&s;ors al&s;o?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>No, for theit authority was extraordinary, and therefore tem|porary and died with them&s;elues, but his ordinary; and therefore per|petuall, and liveth in his &s;ucce&s;&s;ors.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I haue &s;hewed you, what was extraordinary in the Apo|&s;tles, and dyed with them; and what was ordinary and liueth with their &s;ucce&s;&s;ors.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>This I know, that the Bi&s;hop of</HI> Rome <HI>&s;ucceedeth</HI> Peter <HI>in the government of the Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>You dare not &s;ay that this power in <HI>Peter</HI> was extraordi|nary, for then it could not goe by &s;ucce&s;&s;ion; and if it were ordinary in <HI>Peter;</HI> Why not in the re&s;t, &s;eeing as hath binne proved? Chri&s;t gaue as large a commi&s;ion in as ample wordes to the re&s;t, as to <HI>Peter:</HI> but if we &s;hould faigne that <HI>Peter</HI> had &s;uch Monarchicall juri&s;diction; By what Law &s;hall the Pope &s;ucceede him in it?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB REF="81">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>The &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of the Bi&s;hop of</HI> Rome, <HI>into the</HI> Popedome <HI>of</HI> Peter, <HI>is of Chri&s;ts</HI> In&s;titution; <HI>and therefore by Law Di|vine.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Of Chri&s;ts <HI>in&s;titution,</HI> where, or when? If you alledge the&s;e wordes, <HI>feede my &s;heepe;</HI> they were &s;poken onely to <HI>Peter,</HI> yet &s;o that the &s;ub&s;tance of the precept was not pro|per to him, but common to all. And if I &s;hould demaund of you wherewith &s;hould <HI>Peter</HI> feede the Sheepe and Lambes of Chri&s;t? Is it not with the &s;weete pa&s;ture of the Word of God? And the Commi&s;&s;ion given to all the Apo&s;tles; to t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ach and baptize all Nations; What &s;hould they teach all Nations? Was it not the &s;ame word of God, expre&s;&s;ed in the&s;e words. <HI>Teaching them to ob&s;erue all things what&s;oever I haue commanded you?</HI> Are not the words of Chri&s;t revealed in the Scriptures? The keys of the kingdome of heaven which were delivered to all the Apo&s;tles, by which they &s;hould lock out all impenitent &s;inners, and open by their mini&s;try of the &s;ame words, the dore of eternal life to all beleevers and true pe|nitent &s;inners, and doe they not all by the mini&s;tery of the &s;ame word, bind all vnrepentant and vnbeleeving &s;inners, vn|to the eternall puni&s;hment, and al&s;o by the &s;ame word, mini|&s;terially ab&s;olue and loo&s;e the beleevers, and true penitent &s;inners, from all their &s;innes and puni&s;hments due? This &s;hew|eth the &s;ub&s;tance of the&s;e words, <HI>and feede my &s;heepe;</HI> is com|mon to all the Apo&s;tles, but if we &s;hould imagine that Chri&s;t did in&s;titute a Monarchy per&s;onally in <HI>Peter,</HI> how commeth it to be locall? this certainely can not be Chri&s;ts in&s;titution, becau&s;e he nameth no place.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>It was in</HI> Peters <HI>power never to haue cho&s;en to him&s;elfe any particular Sea, and then after his death, neither the Bi&s;hop of</HI> Rome, <HI>nor the Bi&s;hop of</HI> Antioch <HI>had &s;ucceeded, but hee whom the Church had cho&s;en.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then you make it locall by <HI>Peters</HI> choice, and not by the law of Chri&s;t.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Was not</HI> Peter <HI>Bi&s;hop of</HI> Rome?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>So men &s;ay, but you cannot proue it by the law of Chri&s;t, which is the divine law of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="145" REF="81">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Will you denie a hi&s;tory &s;o famou&s;ly recorded by</HI> Eu&s;ebius, <HI>and other ancient Authors?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>We doe not deny the hi&s;tory, but mu&s;t wee make hu|maine hi&s;tories, the ground of our faith? If the hi&s;tory be true, which yet I take to be vntrue, if it &s;ay that <HI>Peter</HI> was Bi|&s;hop of <HI>Rome,</HI> about 25. yeares, as your Church makes the world beleeue: for <HI>Peter</HI> was an Apo&s;tle, and his commi&s;&s;ion with the re&s;t of the Apo&s;tles was to preach, teach, and baptize all nations, and had no commi&s;&s;ion to fixe him&s;elfe in any Sea, or Bi&s;hopricke, for my owne part, I haue no skill to looke in|to hi&s;tories, for I haue no gift of tongues, neither haue I any tran&s;lated into our vulgar; but a learned iudicious Pa&s;tor of ours, hath &s;ayd in his publicke mini&s;tery, that tho&s;e hi&s;tories which are alledged by your men, were written about 300 yeares after <HI>Peters</HI> time, and not by any Author that lived in his time. Therefore tho&s;e hi&s;torians might haue fal&s;e relati|ons, and therefore a fearefull thing it is, for the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> to draw out of tho&s;e hi&s;tories, articles to &s;erue their owne turne, and &s;o impo&s;e them vpon the people of God, as grounds and principles for them to relie their faith vpon: there+fore Seniour <HI>Phillip,</HI> I would heartily wi&s;h you, and all pri|vate men to be carefull of &s;uch doctrines, and articles of faith, which cannot be proved by the word of faith, which is the Scriptures; though what-&s;oever Church, or man, or men, of what note or eminency &s;oever, they be in the Church, or in the world, that will vrge them vpon you: For I remember a &s;aying of S. <HI>Au&s;tin,</HI> worthy of &s;peciall note, and it is that all articles of faith nece&s;&s;ary to be beleeved, are plainely &s;et down in the Scripture; but of <HI>Peter</HI> being a Bi&s;hop, and Bi&s;hop of <HI>Rome,</HI> Nay, that he ever came at <HI>Rome,</HI> is neither plainely &s;et downe, nor concluded thence by nece&s;&s;ary con&s;equence.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>It was in</HI> Peters <HI>power to haue continued at Antioch, and then without doubt, the Bi&s;hop of</HI> Antioch, <HI>had beene his &s;ucce&s;&s;or, but becau&s;e he tran&s;lated his chaire fixed it at</HI> Rome, <HI>and there died, thence it comes to pa&s;&s;e, that the Bi&s;hop of</HI> Rome <HI>&s;ucceeded him.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>If the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of place, depend vpon the fixing of S. <HI>Peters</HI> chaire at the place of <HI>Rome,</HI> what &s;hall be &s;ayd of <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">e
<PB REF="82"> Popes, which kept at <HI>Avinion,</HI> in <HI>France,</HI> the &s;pace of 70 yeares, as your owne writers te&s;tifie, and all that time, never came at <HI>Rome.</HI> Now this is to build vpon the fact of S. <HI>Peter,</HI> and not vpon the law of God; a fearefull ca&s;e, that the Churches faith, mu&s;t depend vpon &s;uch fond devi&s;es, that cannot be proved by the word of God. I &s;ay that <HI>Rome</HI> cannot proue by any promi&s;e of Chri&s;t, that the Church and truth of God, &s;hould be perpetually fixed there, if ever there were any Church that might alledge &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of place; it was Ieru&s;alem: for the Scripture &s;aith thereof. <HI>The Lord will dwell for ever in this Tem|ple,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> Chron. 33.<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">.5. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;al. 132.<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">2.13.14. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> P&s;al. 78. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">er&s;e 69.</NOTE> <HI>and againe I haue cho&s;en and &s;anctified this hou&s;e, that my name may be there for ever:</HI> but the promi&s;e is conditionall, <HI>If thy children will keepe my covenant, and my te&s;timonies that I &s;hall teach them:</HI> and therefore when the Prophets reproved them, and the Prie&s;ts alledged nothing el&s;e but this, <HI>The Temple, the Temple, the Temple of the Lord;</HI> See what the Lord &s;ayd in an|&s;were to them:<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">erem. 7.4.26.</NOTE> <HI>Tru&s;t not in lying wordes, &s;aying, the Temple of the Lord, but amend your wayes and your workes.</HI> So <HI>Rome</HI> was once a holy City, but the Lord is almo&s;t vtterly departed from it, for their gro&s;&s;e errors, and wickedne&s;&s;e. Our Saviour Chri&s;t &s;aith, <HI>De&s;olation &s;hall &s;it in the holy place;</HI> And the Apo&s;tle <HI>Paul</HI> &s;ayth,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ath. 24.15.</NOTE> <HI>That Antichri&s;t &s;hall &s;it in the Temple of God:</HI> what &s;hould we trouble our &s;elues any further about &s;o palpable an error? If Pa&s;tors haue po&s;&s;e&s;t a place never &s;o long; if they haue not the life of a true Church, it is nothing, and this life is &s;ound doctrine.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, let vs come now to our Church, to trie it by our marke of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Pa&s;tors and Bi&s;hops.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Well, you doe hold that the Popes are <HI>Peters</HI> &s;ucce&s;&s;ors, and that they haue derived vnto them, the &s;upremacy &amp; cheife Iuri&s;diction of the Catholicke Church, and thereupon they are the head, and foundation of the Church, and all this is de|rived vnto them from <HI>Peter,</HI> the head and Prince of the A|po&s;tles.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>All the&s;e points, we hold to be certainely true.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>How weakely you and your Church, doe maintaine the
<PB N="147" REF="82"> &s;upremacy of <HI>Peter,</HI> by the Scriptures; let God, and all good men judge; &amp; as for <HI>Peters</HI> being a Bi&s;hop, or his ever being at <HI>Rome,</HI> or that the Popes the fir&s;t of them, were his &s;ucce&s;&s;ors: not one of the&s;e points, you (nor any of your Prie&s;ts for you) are able to proue them by one word of Scripture, and yet every one that will be &s;aved, mu&s;t hold them as Articles of faith, and confidently beleeue them, by your Religion: but now for the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of the Popes in the &s;upremacy, and juri&s;diction of S. <HI>Peter,</HI> there is one hi&s;tory, that will overthrow all the hi&s;tories they doe bring to proue it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Alas poore man, you are to weake of braine, and to &s;imple to be a good hi&s;torian; But let me heare the &s;tory?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I confe&s;&s;e I haue no skill in &s;tory, but I will alledge it out of an author that had skill, and that had skill to confute your errors; but it is &s;o, that I will fir&s;t aske you a bue&s;tion or two: which doe you thinke is greater in juri&s;diction and power, an Apo&s;tle or a Bi&s;hop?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Sure an Apo&s;tle is greate&s;t, both of Iuri&s;diction and Pow|er.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>And is the <HI>Pope</HI> any more then a Bi&s;hop?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>No, he is but a Bi&s;hop, but he is the prime Bi&s;hop of all others in the World, and none in the world, did ever enter into the office of a minister in the Catholike Church, either in the highe&s;t or inferiour places, &s;ince the death of S.</HI> Peter, <HI>but by the authority of the Popes, his &s;ucce&s;&s;ors; neither did or ought to exerci&s;e their office in the Ca|tholike Church, but by his authority.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>This fancy is ea&s;ily overthrowne; I pray was not S. <HI>Iohn</HI> an Apo&s;tle?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Yes indeede was he; but what of that?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Was he not called by Chri&s;t immediately; and had the juri&s;diction of an Apo&s;tle immediately from Chri&s;t?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>What of all this if we grant vnto it; what doth it preiudice vs, and advantage you?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George</SPEAKER>
<P>Thus it advantageth vs, and preiudices you; For it over|throweth your Popes &s;upremacy. But I will aske you another que&s;tion; did not Saint <HI>Iohn</HI> exerci&s;e his Apo&s;tle-&s;hip, which hee received from Chri&s;t immediately, all the time of his life?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB REF="83">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Yes no doubt of it, for all the Apo&s;tles held their office and executed the iuri<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">diction of their Apo&s;tle-&s;hip, all the time of their liues; what inferre you therevpon?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then thus I conclude, that after <HI>Peters</HI> death, there was long a greater juri&s;diction in the Church; then <HI>Peter</HI> confer|r<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">d vpon his &s;uppo&s;ed &s;ucce&s;&s;ors the Popes, for they were but Bi&s;hops as you haue confe&s;&s;ed; and the Apo&s;tle Saint <HI>Iohn</HI> lived long after <HI>Peter</HI> the Apo&s;tles death, and exerci&s;ed his Apo&s;tle &s;t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ps juridiction during his life. Saint <HI>Iohn</HI> the Apo|&s;tle of Chri&s;t (as Saint <HI>Ierom</HI> &s;aith and witne&s;&s;eth vnto vs) lived 68. yeares after the pa&s;&s;ion of Chri&s;t; and con&s;equently dyed in the yeare of Chri&s;t, 101. Which according vnto <HI>Ba|ronius,</HI> one of your owne writters, was in the ninth yeare of <HI>Clement,</HI> who was the third Pope after <HI>Peter.</HI> Now Saint <HI>Iohn</HI> by this account, v&s;ed his juri&s;diction of Apo&s;tle-&s;hipe, which was the greate&s;t, &s;pirituall juri&s;diction vnder Chri&s;t. All the time of <HI>Linus</HI> and <HI>Cletus,</HI> and to the ninth yeare of <HI>Clement;</HI> which plainly overthroweth your opinion; that the Popes were the greate&s;t in juri&s;diction over the Catholike Church after <HI>Peters</HI> death. But let me aske you a que&s;tion, did S. <HI>Iohn</HI> lo&s;e his Apo&s;tle-&s;hip after the death of Saint <HI>Peter,</HI> and was glad to light his candle againe from <HI>Linus,</HI> and after his death, from <HI>Cletus;</HI> and after his, from <HI>Clements?</HI> If this be &s;o, then there was after the death of Chri&s;t whil&s;t an Apo&s;tle lived, a greater juri&s;diction in the Church, then the juri&s;diction of an Apo&s;tle, which cannot be. Tell me Signiour <HI>Philip,</HI> did Saint <HI>Iohn</HI> re|nue his Apo&s;tolicall juri&s;diction from the grant of <HI>Linus, Cle|tus,</HI> and <HI>Clement?</HI> Tell me, why doe you not tell me? Me thinkes you &s;tand as one holding a mad Dogg by the eares, which neither knowes how to hold him fa&s;t, nor yet to let him goe.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Though I cannot an&s;wer it, yet there are of our religion which can confute and confound you in this point, and him from whom you had it.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I know there are of your Religion which will endevour to doe it, if they can; but alas they cannot. By &s;ophi&s;try they w<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ll endevour to make truth fal&s;hood; but truth cannot be a|&s;hamed
<PB REF="83"> nor overthrowne, with all the devices of &s;ophi&s;try they can devi&s;e: No, not if the Devill the father of lyes con&s;ult with them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, now we come to the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Bi&s;hops and Pa&s;tors in the Church; I will proue the Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>to be a true Church of God; and this marke for the Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>hath had a true lineall &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Bi&s;hops from the Apo&s;tle S.</HI> Peter, <HI>even till this very day. For the</HI> Pope <HI>of</HI> Rome <HI>that now is: hath in a true lyne &s;ucceded them all; therefore the Church of</HI> Rome <HI>that now is, is the true Church of God. Therefore all Chri&s;tians that will be &s;a|ved, mu&s;t &s;ubmit them&s;elues vnto her, to be their &s;pirituall mo|ther.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I know you all bragg of &s;ucee&s;&s;ion of place and per&s;ons, but as for &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Doctrine, which is the life of a true Church, what is become of that? I do grieue for that, becau&s;e I cannot finde that in the Church of <HI>Rome;</HI> for that is almo&s;t quite extingui&s;hed: and that little which remaineth, is &s;o ob|&s;cured by Devilli&s;h humaine inventions, that I can &s;carce per|ceiue any life in her. But for your braggs of place and per&s;ons, it is but as the &s;hell of a nut, when the divelli&s;h Wormes haue eate out the kernell; or as a faire Casket, when the Iewells are &s;tolne; but come, Who was <HI>Peters</HI> immediate &s;ucce&s;|&s;or?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Why that was Pope</HI> Linus, <HI>who was Pope of</HI> Rome <HI>next vnto S.</HI> Peter.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>But you cannot proue this by <HI>Peters</HI> Doctrine in his E|pi&s;tles, nor in the Apo&s;tles Acts, nor in the Epi&s;tles of any of the other Apo&s;tles; therefore not to be beleeved as an Article of faith, and vndoubted truth. And as for the hi&s;tories of it, they are vncertaine; for the Popes decrees &s;ay, <HI>Clement</HI> was his next &s;ucce&s;&s;or; and <HI>Eu&s;ebus</HI> &s;ay, <HI>Linus.</HI> And as it is vncertaine which was his fir&s;t &s;ucce&s;&s;or, &s;o it is vncertaine, when <HI>Peter</HI> came fir&s;t to <HI>Rome.</HI> For <HI>Oro&s;ius</HI> &s;aith, <HI><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">eter</HI> came to <HI>Rome</HI> in the beginning of <HI>Claudius</HI> raigne: And <HI>Ierem,</HI> in the &s;econd yeare, others in the fourth yeare, others in the 13. yeare; and <HI>Dama&s;us</HI> &s;aith, he came thither in <HI>Ner<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">es</HI> raig<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">e. So that there is no certainety in that, which they make an vn|doubted
<PB REF="84"> principle. There was once a Woman-Pope, who&s;e name properly was <HI>Gilberta,</HI> a Dutch woman of <HI>Ments</HI> or <HI>Ma|guntia,</HI> which is contrary to the Scripture; which permitteth not a Woman to beare rule in the Church of God. If &s;he were, as the hi&s;tories report, Pope, then they were no Popes and Pa&s;tors which &s;he did ordaine; and their orders were meere Nullities. Then what can all them, that haue &s;ucceeded her &s;ince, be; but meere Lay-men? For &s;he being a Woman, could not be Pope or Bi&s;hop: For &s;hee was vncapable, either to re|ceiue or giue orders. So hauing nothing to giue in matter of orders, tho&s;e which &s;he ordained received nothing; &s;o all the Bi&s;hops which haue &s;ucceeded lineally &s;ince her regency, had no power con&s;equently to giue orders one to another. What man of true &s;anctified judgeme~t, will rely his &s;oule vpon the be|leefe of &s;o dangerous an Article, that all the Popes &s;ince <HI>Peters</HI> death, were true Popes, and heads of the Catholike Church?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But our Church doth deny, that there was any &s;uch Woman, Pope, becau&s;e that hi&s;tories, where &s;uch a woman Pope is recorded, were made</HI> 2 <HI>or</HI> 300. <HI>yeares &s;ince &s;uch a woman Pope &s;hould be, and therefore vncertaine; and there vpon they vtterly deny, that there was any &s;uch woman Pope.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I haue heard that they vtterly deny that there was any &s;uch Pope, vpon the ground you &s;peake off; but the Woman being made Pope, was named Pope <HI>Iohn,</HI> and was in the ranke and catologue of the Popes; but now they haue &s;punged her out in their be&s;t endevours. But I thinke they cannot but mu&s;t needes haue her in the ranke, or el&s;e the linkes of your &s;ucce&s;&s;ion will breake. A learned Divine of ours &s;aith out of your owne authors, that there was in <HI>Rome</HI> a &s;chi&s;me held 39. yeares, one Pope again&s;t another; at length the coun&s;ell of <HI>Con&s;tance,</HI> put downe tho&s;e fal&s;e Popes; and to another gaue the Popedome. This mu&s;t needes be granted, that during the raigne of tho&s;e fal&s;e Popes, there was a breach in your &s;ucce&s;&s;i|on. I reade that in the yeare 1083. and 1058. and 1062. there were 2 Popes together; I reade al&s;o that <HI>Benedict</HI> the 9. <HI>Silve&s;ter</HI> the 3. and <HI>Gregory</HI> the 6. were Popes all at one time. And at an other time, <HI>Benedict</HI> the 13. a Spani&s;h Pope, &amp; <HI>Gre|gory</HI>
<PB N="151" REF="84"> the 12. a <HI>French</HI> Pope, and <HI>Iohn</HI> the 23. an <HI>Italian</HI> Pope, all together; what manner of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion is this, thinke you? There|fore it is no good marke of a vi&s;ible Church, without &s;ucce&s;&s;i|on of Doctrine; which is the &s;ure&s;t and infallible&s;t marke. <HI>Mana&s;&s;es</HI> polluted the Church, and violated Iu&s;tice: and yet he &s;ucceeded good <HI>Ezechias</HI> his father; and <HI>Io&s;iah</HI> reformed the Church, and renued the lawes; yet was Grand-child to, and &s;ucceeded that wicked <HI>Mana&s;&s;es.</HI> The &s;ame al&s;o may happen in the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Prelats in the Church: Againe, if any Church might ever alledge the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of Pa&s;tors, it was the Church of the Iewes, for it was in the hou&s;e of <HI>Aaron;</HI> from Father to Sonne, and none that was out of the &s;ame hou&s;e, might ever &s;acrifice; be&s;ides, there was a promi&s;e made vnto them, that they &s;hould continue &s;o for ever. And indeede when the Prophets exhorted them to a reformation, they had this in their mouthes: <HI>The law &s;hall not peri&s;h from the Prie&s;ts;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ierem 18 18. Ierem. 8 8.</NOTE> <HI>nor coun&s;ell from the wi&s;e, nor the Word from the Prophets.</HI> But what &s;aith the &s;pirit of God vnto them? <HI>Say not we are wi&s;e,</HI> &amp;c. <HI>The Law of the Lord is with vs, &amp;c.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Iere 23 15. Ezech. 7.26.</NOTE> It is in vaine that we may depend, <HI>The &s;cribe is in vaine, the wi&s;e men are a&s;hamed; and &s;ee|ing they haue reiected the word of the Lord, what wi&s;edome is in them.</HI> And againe, <HI>the Prophets prophecy lyes:</HI> And the Prie&s;ts beare rule, by meanes of them. And againe, <HI>The prophaning of the &s;ervice of the highe&s;t is gon foorth from them.</HI> And againe, <HI>the Lawe &s;hall peri&s;h from the Prie&s;ts, and coun&s;ell from the Ancients.</HI> I will end with one text more: the Scribes and Phari&s;es could boa&s;t to our Saviour Chri&s;t, <HI>That they were the &s;eede of Abra|ham:</HI> I know it well, &s;aith our Sauiour,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ioh. 8.33. &amp; 44.</NOTE> but the Devill is your Father; as Almighty God &s;aid to the Children of <HI>I&s;raell:</HI> thy father is an <HI>Amorite,</HI> and thy mother a <HI>Hittite.</HI> And now to drawe to a conclu&s;ion, of our rea&s;oning about &s;ucce&s;&s;ion: Me thinkes by the light of naturall rea&s;on, that &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of place and per&s;on, &s;hould not be a true marke of a true vi&s;ible Church, without &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of true Doctrine. Take a natu|rall rea&s;on or two, as for example: A filthy trotting Iade, may &s;ucceede in one and the &s;elfe &s;ame &s;table, in the po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion of one and the &s;elfe &s;ame man. A faire through pac't Gelding,
<PB REF="85"> to the prejudice of the owner, and them that &s;hall v&s;e him. A wicked man oft &s;ucceedeth a good man, in one and the &s;elfe &s;ame hou&s;e and family, to the prejudice of the family; by his vnlawfull tyrannous v&s;age. And &s;o a wicked Magi&s;trate, may &s;ucceede a good; as before you haue heard. But if a good Hor&s;e, faire and fat, and well pac't, &s;ucceede another good be|fore; there is no prejudice to the Ma&s;ter, nor to any that haue right to v&s;e him: And if a good man &s;ucceede a good man in a f<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">mily, there is no hurt, but joy &amp; comfoat to the family: For the good governme~t is continued, the maintenance of the fami|ly is not wa&s;ted with the riotous exce&s;&s;e, but rather encrea&s;ed to the joy &amp; comfort of all. Now I &s;ay, if there doe &s;ucceede in the Church, wicked Pa&s;tors, which doe vnder the colour of per&s;onall &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, bring into the Church, poy&s;oned Doc|trine of their owne inventing, whereby the poore &s;heepe of Chri&s;t are in danger to be infected, to the lo&s;&s;e of Gods favour in their &s;alvation; Shall the Pa&s;tors per&s;onall &s;ucce&s;&s;ion ex|cu&s;e their bringing into the Church &s;uch wicked Doctrine? Or &s;hall this per&s;onall &s;ucce&s;&s;ion excu&s;e the people for recei|ving &s;uch wicked Doctrine? What man of rea&s;on will thinke it an excu&s;e for either? No, no, it is the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of &s;ound Doctrine according to the law of God; which is the onely thing nece&s;&s;ary for all pople to looke vnto in &s;ucce&s;&s;ion: and therefore per&s;onall &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, is vaine and wicked to be alled|ged without it, to bee a true marke of the vi&s;ible Church of God. I will end our di&s;cour&s;e of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, with &s;ome me|morable &s;ayings I haue read to be in the Fathers. And fir&s;t, what &s;aith <HI>Nazianzene,</HI> the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of the Sea, hath nothing el&s;e but the name; the true, and reall &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, is that of the &s;aith. And what &s;aith Saint <HI>Ba&s;ill</HI> of the Church, which defi|leth the Doctrine and the Sacraments. It may very well bee &s;aid, how is the faithfull Cittie become a Harlot? And Saint <HI>Ambro&s;e,</HI> they haue not the &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of <HI>Peter,</HI> which haue not the faith of <HI>Peter.</HI> And Saint <HI>Bernard</HI> &s;aith of the Prelats of his time, tho&s;e O Lord are formo&s;t to per&s;ecute thee, that &s;eeme to hold the formo&s;t place in the Church: It is a &s;mall matter for our Watch-men not to guide vs, except they al&s;o de&s;troy vs.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB REF="85">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Let vs now come to another marke of the Church vi&s;ible which doe you thinke fitte&s;t to be next vnto &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, for of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion we haue ended our conference?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I doe thinke it fitte&s;t now to conferre of Vnity, for in our conference of &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, we haue the head of the vi&s;ible Church, and therefore in cour&s;e of method, it will bee mo&s;t meete to come to the body of the Church, which is principal|ly &s;hewed in vnity.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am of your minde in this, and therefore let vs proceede and conferre vpon this marke of vnity; another infallible marke of a true vi&s;ible Church, in the Iudgement of our Divines, And in this you cannot po&s;&s;ibly proue your Church to be a true Church of Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Yes by this very marke, will I (God willing) proue this part of the Church in Great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> a true Church, and yours a fal&s;e Church, I mea<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters"> the Church of <HI>Rome.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I marveile you will be &s;o mad to vndertake a thing &s;o impo&s;|&s;ible, &s;eeing you are &s;o devided among&s;t your &s;elues into divers &s;ects; as &s;ome of you be</HI> Calvini&s;ts, <HI>&s;ome</HI> Prote&s;tants, <HI>&s;ome</HI> Swinglians, <HI>and &s;ome</HI> Browni&s;ts <HI>and the familie of</HI> Loue, <HI>and others; can there be a true vnion, where there is &s;uch a divi&s;ion?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>If I &s;hould returne the l<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ke to you, what &s;ects there be among&s;t you, and your Church and Religion, as I haue read and heard, it would rather be but contention in both of vs, then godly edifying: but a little I will &s;hew you what &s;ects there be in your Church, as I haue both read and heard; as that there be &s;ome <HI>Capucines,</HI> &s;ome <HI>Franciskans,</HI> &s;ome <HI>Domi|nicans,</HI> &s;ome Gray, &s;ome White, &s;ome Blacke Fryars; as for your <HI>Ie&s;uits,</HI> and <HI>Secular Prie&s;ts,</HI> what divi&s;ions and contenti|ons there is betweene them, your booke called the <HI>Quodli|bets,</HI> doth manife&s;tly &s;hew. It is not &s;ome divi&s;ion in a Church, that doth vtterly de&s;troy a Church; for then I &s;uppo&s;e there was never any Church vi&s;ible in the world, &s;ince the fall, for there was, and ever will be &s;ects and here&s;ies in the Church, that they that are approved may be knowne: and as for &s;ome divi&s;ions and contentions in the vi&s;ible Church, the be&s;t may be &s;ubject vnto it, &s;eeing men are not perfect in it; As Saint <HI>Peter</HI> and Saint <HI>Paul</HI> did di&s;agree and contend, and &s;o did
<PB REF="86"> <HI>Paul</HI> and <HI>Barnabas.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gala. 2.11. Act. 15.39.</NOTE> Vnity of it &s;elfe, is no marke of a Church vi&s;ible, without there be a vnity in one head, and one body by faith and loue, faith that vniteth vs to Chri&s;t, and loue, that v|niteth the members of the church each to other; which vnity was in the church of the Iewes in the wildernes, where they all agreed to make an Image of a golden calfe,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod. 32. 1. Math. 27.22.</NOTE> they al&s;o agreed together to kill Chri&s;t, but my drift and my poore meditati|ons haue beene, how to edifie you in your owne markes of the church, and therby to &s;hew you, and all ignorant Papi&s;ts how cunningly the Devill hath deceived your church and all peo|ple adherent to the &s;ame, by cau&s;ing them to di&s;ioyne the&s;e, which are the e&s;&s;entiall, true, and infallible markes of a vi&s;ible church, from tho&s;e acce&s;&s;ary markes of the church, I meane the true and publike mini&s;tration of the word and &s;acraments, from &s;ucce&s;&s;ion, vnity, antiquity, and the re&s;t. I doe purpo&s;e therefore to &s;hew you, the true vnion; of the which true vni|on, we doe hold, and then de&s;cend to di&s;cu&s;&s;e your vnion.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I perceiue you are very arrogant and proud, that you will di&s;|cu&s;&s;e our vnion, but runne your race and proceede.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Then thus I proceede, Fir&s;t, I &s;ay as I haue formerly &s;ayd and proved, that Chri&s;t is the head and foundation of the church, and that the church is his body. Al&s;o I haue proved that the holy Gho&s;t, which is the &s;pirit of God, doth vnite this body the church to Chri&s;t the head, and this I proued by the 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 12.13. and that it is his body, I proved further. 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 10.17. and the 2 <HI>Cor.</HI> 11.2. and many more. Now the church on her part, doth vnite her &s;elfe vnto Chri&s;t her head by faith, as appeareth in <HI>Ephe.</HI> 3.17.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe. 3.17.</NOTE> in the&s;e words; <HI>He dwelleth in our hearts by faith.</HI> Now tho&s;e that are properly and indeede vni|ted to Chri&s;t, by the &s;pirit and faith, are members of the invi|&s;ible church, which is properly his &s;pirituall body. And I come now to &s;peake of the vnion of the vi&s;ible church of Chri&s;t, where as I haue formerly &s;aid, there mu&s;t be a di&s;tincti|on made, betweene the vi&s;ible and the invi&s;ible church, for the invi&s;ible church, is properly and indeede vnited to Chri&s;t, but the vi&s;ible in all the parts thereof are vnited to Chri&s;t one|ly by outward profe&s;&s;ion. A man that makes outward profe&s;|&s;ion
<PB N="155" REF="86"> of vnion with Chri&s;t, may be properly &s;o indeede, but wee cannot certainely know it, but charitably &s;o conceiue, therefore I &s;ay that it is the outward profe&s;&s;ion, and outward preaching of Chri&s;t, to be Lord, foundation, and head of the church, that maketh the vi&s;ible church: and by this externall profe&s;&s;ion, &amp; mini&s;tration of holy things, are we in the church of Great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> vnited to Chri&s;t our head, and by the&s;e we hold vnion with al the vi&s;ible parts of the church in the world. If we con&s;ider in briefe the whole doctrine of our vnion with Chri&s;t, as fir&s;t, the efficient cau&s;e thereof, Gods free election. Secondly, the effectuall vocation vnto the Vnion. Thirdly, the &s;pirituall vnion it &s;elfe by the holy Gho&s;t. Fourthly, the vnion by faith, take it as your church define faith; which is to beleeue the word written is true: or as we define a ju&s;tify|ing faith, which is to apprehend and apply the promi&s;es of grace in Chri&s;t by faith: in all the&s;e points, both for the be|ginning, and the continuance of this vnion both with Chri&s;t our head, and al&s;o the members one with another in faith and loue, we hold I &s;ay this vnion, as purely by our doctrine, as any Church in the World, and therefore by this marke, we are a true church of Chri&s;t.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>We of the Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>are the true church of Chri&s;t, but ye doe not hold vnion with our church, therefore by this marke of vnion, you are no true church of Chri&s;t, but heretickes and &s;chi&s;|matickes.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>We hold vnion with you &s;o farre forth, as you hold v|nion with Chri&s;t. The church is catholike, and Chri&s;t is the head thereof. And it being catholike, is not tyed to <HI>Rome.</HI> The good wheat-corne being thre&s;hed, doth flie out of the chaffie eare, but not out of the Barne: even &s;o wee flie from your chaffe, and dro&s;&s;e of fal&s;e doctrine and here&s;ie, but not out of the catholike church; and this &s;hall &s;uffice, to &s;hew that by this marke of vnity, our church, is a true part of the vi&s;ible catholike church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now I will by this marke of vnion proue our church to be the true church; for the Scripture &s;ayth, there &s;hall be one Shepheard and one flocke, and the &s;hepheard is the</HI> Pope, <HI>who is &s;et vp as a mi|ni&s;teriall
<PB N="156" REF="87"> head, and the flocke, is the whole Catholike Church. And this church is but one, and is &s;weetely vnited vnto this head in one faith: therefore the church of</HI> Rome, <HI>is the true catholike church, by this marke of vnity.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>This is my an&s;were, Fir&s;t, that whereas you &s;et vp a mi|ni&s;teriall head, which you doe, you &s;hall never proue it by Scripture.<NOTE PLACE="marg">E<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">he. 4.12.</NOTE> For the mini&s;try is di&s;per&s;ed among&s;t the Pa&s;tors, and no in any one head. Secondly, I an&s;were, by this one mini&s;teriall head, your Church did rob Chri&s;t of his &s;ove|raignty and honour, becau&s;e in &s;etting vp this mini&s;teriall head, they &s;teal things from him, proper to him alone, as the priviledge to forgiue &s;innes properly, and the power to go|verne the whole earth, by making of lawes, that &s;hall as truely binde the con&s;cience, as the law of God. Thirdly, for your head, why, there was &s;ometimes 3. at once, as you haue heard, all of them &s;triving for the Popedome; therefore there was no vnity, in the very head of your church. And it is cleare to me, and I would to God in his mercy t'were &s;o to you, and to all private Chri&s;tians, that your Church hath &s;et vp a fal&s;e head, and in many parts of their doctrine a fal&s;e faith, to vnite them vnto this fal&s;e head. And as for that one pa&s;tor that you &s;peake of, it is Chri&s;t Ie&s;us, the &s;hepheard of &s;hepheards, who is the onely proper Pa&s;tor of the catholike church, both of Iewes and Gentiles.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>You &s;peake fal&s;ely, for we haue &s;et vp no fal&s;e head, nor no fal&s;e faith, but are truely vnited vnto a true head, and that by a true faith.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Well well, Seniour <HI>Phillip,</HI> as you and all private men loue your owne &s;alvation, and loue to free your &s;elues from eternall condemnation, be carefull to ground your &s;elues true|ly, by a true faith vpon a true foundation, which is Chri&s;t our Saviour; and vnite your &s;elues al&s;o by true faith, vnto a true head, which is Chri&s;t alone, and none other. But I will pro|ceede further to &s;hew you the want of vnion, even in the very heads of your Church. I reade that about the yeare 886. and about the yeare 892. There was greate di&s;&s;ention among&s;t the Popes, the heads of your Church. I pray harke what fol|lowes,
<PB N="157" REF="87"> I read that Pope <HI>Steven</HI> the &s;ixt abrogated all <HI>Formo|&s;us</HI> his predece&s;&s;ors decrees: and after he was dead and buried, tooke vp his body, cut of 2 fingers of his right hand, and bu|ried him againe in lay habite. I read that the following Popes, <HI>Theodorus</HI> the &s;econd, <HI>Romanus</HI> and <HI>Iohn</HI> the 10. confirmed all <HI>Formo&s;us</HI> his Acts. I likewi&s;e reade, that after all this, Pope <HI>Sergius</HI> di&s;anulled their Acts: and tooke vp the body of <HI>For|mo&s;us,</HI> and ca&s;t it into the river <HI>Tiber.</HI> Doe you not &s;ee, What goodly vnity there was here among&s;t your heads the Popes? I will &s;hew you the like want of vnity in the whole body of your Church. It is the opinion of your Church, and I thinke it is true; that the whole vi&s;ible Church is repre&s;ented by a generall councell. The fir&s;t Nicen councell allowed Prie&s;ts marriage, and the Communion in the Lords &s;upper, in both kindes both of bread and wine. But the councells of <HI>Con&s;tance</HI> and <HI>Ba&s;il,</HI> forbad the laitie the cup. And the councell of <HI>Trent,</HI> forbids both the cup to the laitie, and marriage to the Clergie. I al&s;o reade that the third coun&s;ell of <HI>Carthage,</HI> that none &s;hould be called vniuer&s;all Bi&s;hop: But now the councell of <HI>Trent</HI> cur&s;eth him, who &s;hall deny the Pope of <HI>Rome,</HI> to be the head Bi&s;hop of all the World. Againe, I reade that the gene|rall councell of <HI>Con&s;tantinople</HI> over-threw Images: And I reade that the &s;econd councell of <HI>Nice,</HI> decreed them to be wor&s;hip|ped: And I read that the councell of <HI>Franckefort</HI> vnder <HI>Charles</HI> the great, determineth it to be Idolatry; and cur&s;eth the &s;ayed <HI>Nicen</HI> councell. I reade al&s;o that there was a great controver|&s;ie in Anno. 1476. betwixt the <HI>Franci&s;cans</HI> and <HI>Dominican</HI> Fryers, touching the conception of the Virgin <HI>Mary,</HI> whither &s;he were conceived in &s;in or no: the <HI>Dominicans</HI> held &s;he was; the <HI>Franci&s;cans</HI> the contrary: But Pope <HI>Zi&s;tus</HI> the 4. Ioyning with the <HI>Franci&s;cans,</HI> 4. of the other were condemned &amp; burnt at <HI>Rome.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Alph. de Ca&s;tro.</HI> Chap. 6. holdes the Pope Inferiour to the councell, the opinion of the <HI>Ie&s;uites &amp;c.</HI> This day is he aboue the councell. I reade that about the <HI>Euchari&s;t,</HI> they haue a world of differences among&s;t them&s;elues; as whether Chri&s;t did con&s;ecrate when hee ble&s;&s;ed the bread and the wine, or
<PB REF="88"> when hee &s;aid this is my body. Secondly, whether &s;o much bread as is taken onely, be con&s;ecrated? Thirdly, whether the &s;ub&s;tance of the bread be turned to nothing, or changed into the &s;ub&s;tance of Chri&s;t? whether there be a bodily motion in the Sacrament. Whether the body of Chri&s;t, in the Sacrament can be touched? how the accidents in the &s;acrame~ts are with|out a &s;ubiect? whether the accidents can be broken, whether they can nouri&s;h? whether the water mingled with the wine, be turned into Chri&s;ts bloud? whence come wormes in the ho&s;t? Thus you &s;ee what diui&s;ions &amp; di&s;&s;entions there are, among&s;t you, both in your Popes councells, and &s;everall orders of Prie&s;ts. Is this the vnity you bragg of? Sure your vnity may be rather called a Con&s;piracy again&s;t Chri&s;t, then a vnity vn|der him. <HI>Herod</HI> and <HI>Pilate</HI> were made freindes, again&s;t Chri&s;t &s;hould be crucified; and they joyned in the execution of him: So all of you, what&s;oever your di&s;&s;entions and di&s;cordes bee among&s;t your &s;elues, even in matters of faith, yet in this one maine Article of your faith; that the Pope is head, and hath a &s;upremacy over the whole Church of God; Herein you mu&s;t needs concurre and agree, though in my poore Iudge|ment, the mo&s;t weakly maintained, of all other points con|troverced betweene you and vs. For this point, (as I remem|ber) <HI>Bellarmine</HI> &s;aith is the head of faith: and for the denyall of this, all mu&s;t lo&s;e their deare&s;t blood, though they main|taine Chri&s;t to be the &s;upreame head never &s;o purely: Iewes &s;hall liue in their bo&s;ome, even in <HI>Rome,</HI> vnder the Popes no&s;e, though they vtterly deny Chri&s;t: this is a fearefull ca&s;e, and this is a wicked vnion.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now let vs proceede to another marke, which we &s;ay, is a marke of a vi&s;ible Church.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Since that we haue ended our conference about the vni|ty of the vi&s;ible Church: let vs proceede to the &s;anctitie of it, for that I thinke is meete&s;t to be next treated of.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I am contented, and therefore as you haue begunne the other markes at your Church, &s;o beginne this: and in this marke, you &s;hall never be able to proue your Church, a Church of Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Yes &s;urely but I can, by the helpe of God, proue it to be
<PB REF="88"> a mo&s;t holy Church, as holy a part of the vi&s;ible Church mi|litant, as is any vi&s;ible part in the Chri&s;tian world.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I never &s;aw, nor rea&s;oned with &s;o Impotent a man: You will proue any thing for the maintaining of your hereticall church; if you can; why doe you not &s;ee, are you blinde, that your people both magi|&s;trates and mini&s;ters, and all &s;oules of &s;ubiects, be mo&s;t vilde in vn|godlynes, and doe expre&s;&s;e it in the wickednes of their liues?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Surely I confe&s;&s;e with griefe of heart, that the generall multitude of our people, are grievou&s;ly polluted with feare|full &s;innes of many kindes. But what if it might be &s;ayd of vs, as the Prophet <HI>Amos</HI> &s;ayd of the Governors of <HI>Samaria?</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Amos 4.1.</NOTE> <HI>You oppre&s;&s;e the poore, and de&s;troy the needy.</HI> And al&s;o, what if it might be &s;ayd, of our Governors, as the Prophet <HI>E&s;ay</HI> &s;ayd? <HI>Woe vn|to them that decree wicked decrees, and write greevious things: To keepe backe the poore from Iudgement; and to take away the Iudge|ment of the poore of my people, that Widowes may be their prey:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">E&s;a. 10.1.2 Zeph 3.4.</NOTE> <HI>and that they may &s;poyle the Father-le&s;&s;e. E&s;ay.</HI> 10.1.2. And what if it might be &s;ayd of our Mini&s;ters and Prophets, that they are light and wicked per&s;ons, and that they haue polluted the Sanctuary? And what if the Lord &s;hould call the in&s;en&s;ible Creatures, <HI>the heavens and the earth,</HI> as he doth by the Prophet <HI>E&s;aiah,</HI> to witne&s;&s;e again&s;t vs for our rebellion In the&s;e words? <HI>heare O Heavens and hearken O Earth, for the Lord hath &s;aid: I haue nouri&s;hed Children, and brought them vp,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">E&s;a. 1.2.</NOTE> <HI>and they haue rebelled again&s;t me.</HI> Yet wee may be a pure Church vi&s;ible for all that: Becau&s;e wee maintaine the pure faith and Doc|trine.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>But how is the Church holy, when it con&s;i&s;ts of &s;o vilde a crew, you your &s;elues in the</HI> Creede, <HI>call it holy?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Surely I mu&s;t be faine to catechi&s;e you in this, as I haue in the re&s;t of our di&s;cour&s;e. You may &s;ee how jgnorantly you haue beene bred in your Religion: that you mu&s;t be catechi&s;|ed in the markes of your owne Church. They tell you that Succe&s;&s;ion, Vnity, Sanctitie and Holines and others, are marks of the vi&s;ible Church: But without &s;ucce&s;&s;ion of faith and doctrine, and vnity in faith and doctrine; and if the vi&s;ible Church be not made holy by the true faith and doctrine, the&s;e
<PB REF="89"> markes are but deceitfull, and may guide you to the Church; who&s;e fal&s;e wicked doctrine, will teach you rather the way to hell and everla&s;ting de&s;truction; then to heaven to enjoy eter|nall happynes and bli&s;&s;e.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, I pray proceede, and make no long preambles; how is the vi&s;ible Church pure and holy?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I am de&s;irous to edifye you, and re&s;olue you in all things, to the power and vnder&s;tanding, God in his mercy hath given me, and therefore I am &s;ure, that the vi&s;ible Church is pure and holy in two or three re&s;pects. I &s;hould haue put this in minde, &s;till that you keepe a di&s;tinction betweene the Invi&s;ible and the vi&s;ible Church. For the Invi&s;ible Church I haue told you, is properly and indeede, the &s;pirituall and my&s;|ticall body of Chri&s;t: and I haue told you how that that body is perfectly holy, pure and righteous, in the &s;ight of God by Iu&s;tification: And in part holy by Sanctification in this life. Now I de&s;ire if it were po&s;&s;ible, to &s;peake to the capacitie of the &s;imple&s;t among&s;t you, that you might not be deceived in the purity, holines, and &s;anctitie of the Church: and there|fore now I come to the holines of the vi&s;ible Church. And I &s;ay as before, it is called holy in two or three re&s;pects. Now as I take it, the vi&s;ible Church is holy; and &s;o called fir&s;t, in re|&s;pect of &s;ome &s;mall remnant that be in it, that are perfectly ho|ly before God by Iu&s;tification; and in part holy by &s;anctifica|tion, I will &s;hew you a prety fitt Similitude, and it is this. Thre&s;hers v&s;e when they haue thre&s;hed, to put the corne be|fore it be fanned on a heape, and this heape is called corne, al|though the greate&s;t part be chaffe: Even &s;o the congregation of the vi&s;ible Church, is called holy, in re&s;pect of the &s;mall number of holy ones in it: even as the heape is called corne, though mo&s;t of it be chaffe. The denomination of the word Holy, is of the better part, and not of the greater: for the mo&s;t are Hipocrites and prophaine Di&s;&s;emblers. This in my judge|ment is clearely proved by the Prophet <HI>E&s;aiah:</HI> The Chur|ches of <HI>Iudah</HI> and <HI>I&s;raell</HI> were vi&s;ible Churches; of them the Prophet &s;aith: Though the number of the Children of I&s;raell be as the &s;ands of the &s;ea; <HI>yet &s;hall but a remnant be &s;aved.</HI> Our
<PB N="161" REF="89"> Saviour calleth his, <HI>but a little flocke:</HI> And he &s;aith, <HI>there be but fewe that walke in the narrow way to heaven.</HI> So that the Church vi&s;ible, is called holy in re&s;pect of the &s;mall remnant of holy ones, which are properly mi&s;ticall members of Chri&s;t: which doe lye hid in the vi&s;ible Church, from the eyes of men, yet &s;eene to the eyes of God. And thus you &s;ee the fir&s;t rea&s;on why the vi&s;ible Church is called holy.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, &s;eeing you haue vndertaken to catechi&s;e me, let me know a &s;econd rea&s;on of it?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>A &s;econd rea&s;on why the vi&s;ible Church is called holy, Is, becau&s;e God hath committed vnto her, his holy ordinan|ces; the Word and Sacraments. And for this cau&s;e &s;he is cal|led by Saint <HI>Paul, the pillar and ground of truth.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Tim. 3.15</NOTE> Not that &s;hee &s;hould add vnto truth, any thing that is devi&s;ed by her &s;elfe: but that &s;he &s;hould vphold the truth, herein the world again&s;t the Devill and wicked men, who labour to pull downe the truth by their lying and deceitfull Doctrines. A &s;trong pillar in a hou&s;e doth as you know, beare vp the hou&s;e and &s;upport it from falling in windy &s;tormes and tempe&s;tous wether: Even &s;o, doth the vi&s;ible Church the truth of God, again&s;t the win|dy &s;tormes of hereticall Doctrine: and &s;o again&s;t the tempe&s;ti|ous lightenings, fiery per&s;ecutions by wicked enemies of the truth, except &s;he bee negligent of her duty. A third rea&s;on why the vi&s;ible Church of God is called holy, is, becau&s;e &s;he &s;preadeth abroad the holy truth to the World: And this &s;he doth by two wayes; Fir&s;t, by reading it to the world, and by this &s;he te&s;tifyeth as a witne&s;&s;e, that it is the truth of God. Se|condly, &s;he &s;peaketh Gods word by explication: and thus &s;he delivereth the true &s;ence of the word of truth, to the better in|forming of the Iudgement of the people. And thus al&s;o by application, &s;he either converteth to &s;alvation, or el&s;e convin|ceth the con&s;ciences of men to their condemnation. The fourth rea&s;on, why the vi&s;ible Church is called holy; is the ex|ternall profe&s;&s;ion of holynes, and that according to the rule of the holy Word of truth, revealed in the &s;criptures to the Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now let me &s;ee, whether the Church of great Brittaine may be
<PB N="162" REF="90"> called holy by the&s;e rea&s;ons?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>For the fir&s;t rea&s;on, that the vi&s;ible Church is called holy, for the &s;mall number of tho&s;e, that bee truely holy in it; I am a&s;&s;uredly per&s;waded, that the Lord affecting &s;o his owne or|dinances, which are the preaching of the Word, and admini|&s;tration of his Sacraments, which haue bin purely performed, by this our Church of great <HI>Brittaine</HI> this many yeares, &s;ince our happy time of reformation; that hee hath, and daily doth conferre grace in the hearts of &s;uch, as he hath ordained to &s;al|vation: and that many multitudes, though not the greate&s;t; which haue receiued the fir&s;t fruites of their Inheritance; and are now tran&s;lated from hence, having all teares wiped from their eyes, are now in re&s;t in their &s;oules, at the right hand of God, with Chri&s;t Ie&s;us their head in glory. I am al&s;o per&s;wa|ded, &s;o long as God in mercy to this our Nation, &s;hall hold o|pen the booke of the Go&s;pell of his deare Sonne; that it may be preached, read, and taught, that many more, from time to time, will be brought to faith and repentance, &amp; con&s;equently to eternall happines and bli&s;&s;e of &s;oule &amp; body for ever; which God in mercy grant vnto vs. And thus our Church is holy by the fir&s;t rea&s;on.</P>
<P>Now I come to the &s;econd rea&s;on, why the vi&s;ible Church is called holy, which is becau&s;e God hath intru&s;ted her, and committed vnto her keeping, his holy ordinances: And for this cau&s;e, &s;he is called the pillar &amp; ground of truth. Now I &s;ay, by this rea&s;on al&s;o, is this our Nationall and particular church of great <HI>Brittaine</HI> mo&s;t excellently holy. I be&s;eech you to con|&s;ider it, for &s;he hath, and doth faithfully di&s;charge the tru&s;t re|po&s;ed in her: For &s;he &s;uffereth it not to bee corrupted, by fal&s;e additions, neither doth &s;he &s;uffer it to be dimini&s;hed by repea|ling any &s;tatute, or law of Gods holy Scriptures, which hee hath committed vnto her: but faithfully keepeth it perfect, pure, holy, and entire, as it is in it &s;elfe, delivered vnto her by God him&s;elfe. She al&s;o pre&s;erueth it by Gods a&s;&s;i&s;tance, from wicked enemies, and oppo&s;ers that labour to invade her, and vtterly to expul&s;e the Go&s;pell of peace from this Kingdome. As for example, In 1588. the Lord from heaven, made the
<PB REF="90"> Elements of wind and water to fight for her, to the over-throw of your great Navie, and al&s;o the Lord did as it were by Myra|cle quench the violence of fire, intended by our treacherous dome&s;tick bo&s;ome enemies, in their Gun-powder plot. And God in mercy hath confounded the manifold other devi&s;es, which the enemies of our Church and Gods truth, enviou&s;ly haue plodded again&s;t vs: She is a &s;helter to &s;trangers of other Nations, who doe profe&s;&s;e the &s;ame word of truth with vs, and being exiled, flee the greevous per&s;ecutions of your Church, or of the enemies of the truth.</P>
<P>For the third rea&s;on, that the vi&s;ible Church is called holy, by &s;preading it to the world, fir&s;t, by reading: and thus our Church of Great <HI>Brittaine,</HI> doth &s;hew her &s;elfe to be a holy and faithfull vi&s;ible Church. In that &s;he readeth the holy Scripture, not in a &s;trange and vnknowne tongue, for then &s;hee &s;hould be a Barbarian to her children but in her owne tongue faithfully tran&s;lated, whereby her children may by it learne to try all things, and to keepe that which is good, and that they might &s;earch the Scriptures; <HI>for in them they thinke to haue eternall life, for they doe te&s;tifie of Chri&s;t:</HI> and that <HI>this word of God, &s;hould dwell plenteou&s;ly in her children,</HI> and that by it, <HI>they &s;hould learne to &s;peake graciou&s;ly:</HI> and thus you &s;ee, &s;he doth teach her children like a good Chri&s;tian mother, the lan|guage of <HI>Canaan</HI> the holy tongue. Thus you &s;ee our Church is no concealer of the word and &s;criptures of God, as yours of <HI>Rome</HI> is: but like a faithfull pillar of truth, &s;preadeth it to her Children, by reading it vnto them, &amp; &s;uffering them to learne the language of the Scriptures, by reading it them&s;elues. Oh the wonderfull and vn&s;peakable benefit, that commeth to the people of God, by this liberty of reading the Scriptures! for this me thinkes, you &s;hould affect vnion with vs. And la&s;tly, by explication, doth our church &s;hew her &s;elfe to be holy, in that &s;he doth deliver a true &s;ence &amp; con&s;truction of the Scrip|ture, to her children, by Divinity-Lectures, and Sermons, and by this doth &s;hee convince her adver&s;aries; that by their Se|cular learning doe oppo&s;e the truth of God revealed in the Scriptures: as is evident by the bookes of controver&s;ies, writ|ten
<PB REF="91"> by our learned King, and our learned Pa&s;tors again&s;t your Church: &amp; al&s;o &s;he &s;heweth her &s;elfe to be holy by application, by v&s;ing the keyes of Gods kingdome faithfully. And this &s;he doth mini&s;terially, by denouncing the terrors, threats, and cur&s;es of the law, again&s;t all wicked and impenitent &s;inners, expo&s;ing them to the infinite Iudgement of Gods wrath, till they repent and beleeue: And thus &s;he &s;huts the kingdome of heaven. Againe, &s;he mini&s;terially &s;ets open the kingdome of heaven to all beleeving penitents;: by applying the ble&s;&s;ed promi&s;es of grace in the name of Chri&s;t, whereby they bee comforted in their deepe&s;t di&s;tre&s;&s;e of con&s;cence for their &s;ins: And like a holy and loving mother, by her holy mini&s;try, doth &s;hare out in holy wi&s;edome, the portion due to every vi|&s;ible Church of hers. Tho&s;e that are weake, and but Babes; &s;he giues them the &s;incere milke of the word of God, that they may growe thereby. And tho&s;e that are able to beare it, &s;hee giveth &s;tronger meate: For the word of God which &s;he doth admini&s;ter, is fit for both: her Pa&s;tors are wi&s;e and able to mi|ni&s;ter comfort to them which are weary. Shee in example of Chri&s;t her head, by her mini&s;try, doth not quench the &s;moak|ing flax, nor breake the bru&s;ed reed. But cheri&s;heth the weake, and confirmeth the &s;trong: and thus I haue &s;hewed you the holines of our Church by the third rea&s;on, which is by expli|cation. And now I come to the fourth and la&s;t rea&s;on of the holines of the vi&s;ible Church, and that is her externall and ho|ly profe&s;&s;ion.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>In this you may &s;hame to open your mouth to proue your Church to be holy, the liues of men are &s;o wicked in it.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Truely Seniour <HI>Philip</HI> I confe&s;&s;e, as before with greife, that the greater number of our people of all &s;orts in this Iland, and Church, are vile, and prophane; and I doe thinke, that were it not for the good lawes of our Kingdome, which doe con&s;traine and compell them, to make outward profe&s;&s;ion, they would many of them make none at all. Their outward carriage in al manner of wickednes, their liues doth apparent|ly &s;hew it &s;o. But what of this, do you thinke that the covenant of God, is broken with the whole? Our Kings and Queenes,
<PB REF="91"> together with our Auncients and fore-fathers, both of the L<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">|tie and Clergie, together with the people of the land, di<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> make a covenant mo&s;t ble&s;&s;edly with God, to purge the land &amp; kingdom of your popi&s;h &s;uper&s;tition and jdolatry. In King <HI>Henry</HI> the 8. his dayes it was begunne: In King <HI>Edwards</HI> the reformation was much more further perfected: In Queene <HI>Elizabeths,</HI> it &s;till encrea&s;ed: and in our late mo&s;t learned King <HI>Iames</HI> his time, &amp; now &s;till mo&s;t happily continued. This they haue done in example of the good Kings of <HI>Iudea,</HI> as <HI>Ezekiah</HI> and <HI>Io&s;iah,</HI> and others. And according to this fir&s;t reformati|on, haue we made a profe&s;&s;ion, and in this outward profe&s;&s;ion ble&s;&s;ed be God, we &s;till keepe covenant with God; which I be&s;eech our Almightie, and eternall mo&s;t ble&s;&s;ed God, for his ble&s;&s;ed &s;onns &s;ake Ie&s;us Chri&s;t our Lord, our Pa&s;tors may &s;o doe to the end of the world.</P>
<P>But now to come to our profe&s;&s;ors, I grant that the greater number of the profe&s;&s;ors of our Religion, may be but form|all; &amp; that they doe profe&s;&s;e for wrong endes and by-re&s;pects, as to avoyde the Penalties of our civill Lawes, and our Eccle&s;i|a&s;ticall cen&s;ures. And againe, for the pray&s;es of men, for that they would bee counted good Church-men: And to avoyde the &s;candall of prophanes, and becau&s;e they thinke it &s;afe&s;t to doe as mo&s;t doe: and many doe make the out-ward profe&s;&s;ion of Gods truth, to be a meanes, the better to bring to pa&s;&s;e their projects of deceipts; and too many doe make their out-ward profe&s;&s;ion as figg-leaues to cover their inward hipocry&s;ie. The e&s;tabli&s;hed vi&s;ible churches, were never without &s;uch bad pro|fe&s;&s;ors: For where God hath his Church, there the Devill will haue his Chappell: If not by here&s;ie, yet he will haue it &s;et vp by deceiptfull hipocry&s;ie. Thus farre of our wor&s;t profe&s;&s;ors, and now to our better. The&s;e be tho&s;e that are out-wardly better reformed: Fir&s;t, a man may di&s;cerne them by their company, for they will &s;hunne the company of &s;uch as are in their liues prophane and vnreformed, and wil a&s;&s;ociate them|&s;elues with &s;uch as are vertuous and godly. They avoyde the fir&s;t, for feare of defilement by tentation to evill: and they en|cline vnto the other, becau&s;e they would haue their &s;pirits
<PB N="166" REF="92"> quickened vnto good. And for their habit in apparell, it is mo|de&s;t, nor greedily taking vp every vaine new fa&s;hion; as is the manner of our vaine&s;t and prophane&s;t profe&s;&s;ors, and of ma|ny of your gallante&s;t <HI>Romane Catholikes.</HI> Neither is their ap|parrell co&s;tly aboue their rankes and callings, but rather vn|der; avoyding &s;uperfluities, both in apparell, diet, and other ordinary expences, whereby they may the better enable them|&s;elues for pious, godly, and charitable expences, as God by his providence, &s;hall call for it at their hands. Their be|haviour is gratious, vertue is &s;eene in their very Counte|enance, their &s;peech is not &s;currilous and Wanton, but for the mo&s;t part gratious vnto edification allwayes: the holy tongue and language of <HI>Canaan</HI> is frequent among&s;t them. All mens tongues by nature, are &s;et on fire of hell; but Gods grace hath &s;o prevailed with them, as to quench their tongues, with the waters of vertue: In a word, we haue in our Church, &s;uch profe&s;&s;ors, as doe avoyde all appearance of evill; and which doe keepe them-&s;elues vn&s;potted of the world, and without the reach of iu&s;t exception of any. They are godly, giving attendance at the dore-po&s;ts of Gods hou&s;e, to heare his Word, that they might learne from Gods Word, rules to di|rect them in the carriages of their liues. And they there, in a holy joynt-communion, with the congregation, offer vp their prai&s;es and prayers, in the name of our ble&s;&s;ed Mediatour Chri&s;t, for who&s;e &s;ake, they and their &s;acrifices, are accepted of God, being offered in faith. And for the &s;acraments, which be In&s;truments and &s;ignes, and &s;eales of &s;alvation, they con|&s;cionably frequent them often: and this their holy and righte|ous life, is not according to the lawes or rules of humane In|vention, but according to the rules and lawes of God, revea|led in the Scriptures. Now I &s;ay, though many may in our Church make glorious &s;hewes to the World, of &s;incerity in their profe&s;&s;ion, and yet be deceitfull hypocrites: yet I am per|&s;waded a&s;&s;uredly, that we haue multitudes that are true <HI>Na|thaniels, I&s;raelites,</HI> in who&s;e hearts (as they are &s;anctified) is no guile: who&s;e outward profe&s;&s;ion doth proceede from pure hearts, good con&s;ciences, and faith vnfained; and in the con|ver&s;ation
<PB REF="92"> of their liues, haue a due re&s;pect vnto all the com|mandements of God, walking hone&s;tly in all things, and ha|ting the garments &s;potted by the fle&s;h. And thus I haue pro|ved our Church of great Brittaine, to bee a true and holy church, by your mark of holines. Nwo let vs try yours by it al&s;o.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Now let me &s;hew you the proofe of our Church by this marke of holines, to be a true Church: As fir&s;t there be holy men admirable for holines. Secondly, there is a holy &s;evice. Thirdly, holy Ceremo|nies. Fourthly, holy &s;acrifice, holy &s;acraments, and la&s;tly, holy dayes.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Now let me &s;hew you how holy your Church of <HI>Rome</HI> is, I will beginne at the head and fountaine thereof your <HI>Popes,</HI> for &s;o you take them to bee: And looke what the head and fountaine is, &s;uch mu&s;t needes be the body, and &s;treames that flowe from &s;uch head and fountaine. I will beginne with Pope <HI>Marcellinus,</HI> of whom I reade that he &s;acrificed to the Idols of the <HI>Painims.</HI> I reade that Pope <HI>Alexander</HI> the 6. poy|&s;oned <HI>Gemes</HI> the great Turkes brother, committed to his cu|&s;tody. I reade that one Pope <HI>Hildebrand,</HI> hired one to kill the <HI>Emperour.</HI> I reade that Pope <HI>Iohn</HI> the 13. committed Ince&s;t with his two &s;i&s;ters: and I reade that he was wounded in adul|tery. I reade that Pope <HI>Alexander</HI> the &s;ixt, lay with his owne Daughter. I reade that Pope <HI>Hildebrand,</HI> was a Sorcerer. I read that Pope <HI>Silve&s;ter</HI> the &s;econd, gaue him&s;elfe to the Devill, to be Pope. I read that many others were <HI>Magitians,</HI> as <HI>Iohn</HI> the 21. and <HI>Benedict</HI> the 9. &amp;c. Againe, I read that Pope <HI>Alexan|der</HI> the 6. cut off the the hands and feete of one <HI>Mencinellus,</HI> becau&s;e he wrote again&s;t his filthines. I reade that Pope <HI>Iohn</HI> the 13. cut off the hands and no&s;es of divers <HI>Cardinalls.</HI> I read that Pope <HI>Sergius</HI> the 3. kept another mans wife, her name was <HI>Marozia,</HI> wife to one <HI>Guido.</HI> I read that his Ba&s;tard came to the <HI>Popedome,</HI> his name was Pope <HI>Iohn</HI> the 11. or 12. I read that Pope <HI>Sixtus</HI> the 4. graunted liberty to the whole family of the <HI>Cardinall</HI> of Saint <HI>Luce</HI> in the three hoat moneths, <HI>Iune, Iuly,</HI> and <HI>Augu&s;t,</HI> to v&s;e <HI>Sodomy:</HI> At the foote of the licence was written, be it, as it is reque&s;ted. I read that every common Harlot in <HI>Rome,</HI> paid a fee to Pope <HI>Sixtus</HI> the 4. Thus, that whereas you condemne our Churches of vnholines, &amp; there|fore
<PB N="168" REF="93"> it could not be in your opinion by this marke a Church of Chri&s;t. What &s;hould one thinke of your Church, that hath &s;uch vngodly a head and fountaine? Now &s;eeing there is &s;uch wickednes in the head of your Church, I will &s;hew you the wicked errors of &s;ome of your Popes. Fir&s;t <HI>Liberius</HI> an A|rian, &s;econdly <HI>Ana&s;tatius</HI> the &s;econd <HI>Ana&s;ta&s;ian,</HI> thirdly <HI>Honori|us</HI> a Monothelit, condemned by the <HI>Roman</HI> Councell vnder <HI>Adrian,</HI> fourthly <HI>Hildebrand,</HI> threw the Sacrament into the fire, &s;ixtly <HI>Iohn</HI> the 22. derided the Go&s;pell held the &s;oules to be mortall, and was therefore by the Councell of <HI>Con&s;tance</HI> cal|led a Devill incarnat, &s;ixtly <HI>Leo</HI> the 10. to Cardinall <HI>Beambus,</HI> calleth the &s;tory of Chri&s;t a fable, &s;euenthly, <HI>Iohn</HI> the 13. cal|led the Devill to helpe him at Dice, and dranke to him. Now I will &s;hew you, what I reade of the filthines, of the principall part of the body. I reade that one <HI>Gallus Senonen&s;is,</HI> wrote a|bout 400. yeares agoe, that Sathan was let loo&s;e at <HI>Rome,</HI> to de&s;troy the Church. I read that Thomas <HI>Becket</HI> a <HI>Romi&s;h</HI> Saint, acknowledged the common proverbe to be true, that there is no right at <HI>Rome.</HI> I reade that the Bi&s;hop of worce&s;ter a Pa|pi&s;t told <HI>Philpot,</HI> that he thought the wickednes he &s;aw in <HI>Rome,</HI> made him an Heretick. If the head-Pa&s;tor, and head-City of your religion, be thus defiled with &s;o wicked behaviour, what is the whole body of your profe&s;&s;ors?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, your writers who thus informe you, abu&s;e our holy Fa|thers the</HI> Popes, <HI>and our holy City of</HI> Rome. <HI>I would you would renounce your Here&s;ie, and travell thither; you &s;hould then bee an Eye-witnes, of the holines there, how it doth abound: And then you &s;hould know, how you are deceitfully abu&s;ed by your writ|ters.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>As for my errors, I will renounce them, if you can &s;hew me them: But I &s;uppo&s;e, you can &s;hew me no error heerein. And as for my travell to <HI>Rome,</HI> I feare I &s;hould behold there; (&s;hould I goe thither:) greater abomination, then any yet I haue heard off: and I know already, that there is prepared Fa|got and Fire for me, except I will betray the Lords truth, and deceiue my owne &s;oule, by wicked equiuocation. But to re|turne to the &s;eeming holines of your Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> where|by
<PB N="169" REF="93"> you would proue it to be a pure and true Church, for your holy &s;ervice. I marvell what your Church meaneth to haue it in Latin, and not in the Vulgar tongues; whereby the peo|ple might acquaint them&s;elues with the holines thereof? But Sathan being an old Polititian, hath prevailed with your Church; to hide your &s;evice in an vnknowne tongue from the people, that they &s;hould not &s;pie out the bla&s;phemous fil|thines of your &s;ervice. Let me &s;hew you a little in part, your vnholy and corrupt &s;ervice. God in the Prophet <HI>E&s;aiah</HI> &s;aith: <HI>He will not giue his honour to any other.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">E&s;a 48.21.</NOTE> And this is a great ho|nour to God, to flee vnto him onely by prayer: there is neither Commandement nor promi&s;e in the &s;cripture, that if wee doe pray vnto Saints, we &s;hall be heard: vpon which two, every lawfull prayer mu&s;t bee built. I meane, vpon a Commande|ment and promi&s;e, what &s;aith Saint <HI>Iames?</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Iam. 1.5.</NOTE> <HI>If any man lacke Wi&s;edome, let him aske it of God, and it &s;halbe given him.</HI> And what &s;aith Saint <HI>Paul?</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 10.13</NOTE> <HI>Who&s;oever &s;hall call vpon the name of the Lord, &s;halbe &s;aved.</HI> And who is the Mediator, by whom we mu&s;t pray? Is it not Chri&s;t alone, and no other. For what &s;ay|eth the &s;cripture? There is one Mediator betweene God and man, the man Chri&s;t Ie&s;us. And therefore what &s;aith our Sa|viour? <HI>What &s;oever you aske my Father in my name, he will giue it you.</HI> Againe, what &s;aith our Saviour? <HI>Come vnto me, all yee that are weary, and heavie laden, and I will ea&s;e you.</HI> Vpon the Saints dayes in your Church, in their prayers, &s;till the&s;e words come in: That by their merits, wee may haue profit; and by their reque&s;ts, we may be delivered. Thus they derogate from the mercy of God, and the gloryous merits of Chri&s;t, as if his were not &s;ufficient. This one place of <HI>E&s;ay,</HI> me thinkes &s;hould convince their prayers to the Saints departed, if they would acknowledge it; The words are, <HI>doubtle&s;&s;e thou art our father, though</HI> Abraham, <HI>be ignorant of vs, and</HI> I&s;raell <HI>know vs not.</HI> If <HI>A|braham</HI> the father of the faithfull, be ignorant of vs; &s;o is all the re&s;t of his Saints: therefore in vaine to pray vnto them. And for your daily &s;acrifice of the Ma&s;&s;e, it is a bla&s;phemous Idole; <HI>for Christ offered him&s;elfe, a mo&s;t perfect &s;acrifice:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Heb 9.15. Heb. 10 20.</NOTE> <HI>With which God was well plea&s;ed. And this he did but once for all.</HI> You
<PB N="170" REF="94"> adore a peece of bread, when it is carried in proce&s;&s;ion, for though it were true that the bread in the Sacrament, were tur|ned into the body of Chri&s;t: yet the Sacrament being ended, it mu&s;t needs returne to the former nature. What a fond thing is it to make prayers for the dead, becau&s;e there is no certainty of their e&s;tate? And they &s;alute the Cro&s;&s;e &s;aying, all haile O Cro&s;&s;e, our onely hope &amp;c. Increa&s;e righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e to the godly, and giue pardon to the guilty. And you pray the Vir|gin <HI>Mary,</HI> to pray the Father, charge thy Sonne, commaund by the right of a mother: they &s;ay that Saint <HI>Francis,</HI> could &s;aue all that &s;hould liue after him, to the end of the World, through his merits, from everla&s;ting death. Looke 1. <HI>Timo:</HI> 2.5. and that place proveth that there is <HI>but one Mediator, as there is but one God.</HI> I reade that the forme of the ab&s;olution, to penitentiares runneth thus, the pa&s;&s;ion of Chri&s;t, and the me|rits of the ble&s;&s;ed Virgin, of Saint <HI>Peter,</HI> and Saint <HI>Paul,</HI> and of other Hee, and Shee Saints, be vnto thee for remi&s;&s;ion of &s;ins. What vngodly, and vnchri&s;tian divinity is this? I reade that who&s;oever readeth the Cannon of the Ma&s;&s;e, &s;hall there &s;ee, a world of idle &amp; ridiculous ceremonies. I read that they &s;ay in|deed they haue the forme of the Ma&s;&s;e, by the traditions of the Apo&s;tles. But the truth is, that it was now a peece, and then a peece patched vp by their owne Popes. As fir&s;t, <HI>Sixtus</HI> the &s;econd brought in the <HI>Sanctus: Innocentius</HI> fir&s;t, brought in the Pax: and <HI>Leo,</HI> the 1. added this clau&s;e: a holy Sacrifice, and vnbloudy Ho&s;t. <HI>Gela&s;ius,</HI> brought in the Prefaces, and Col|lects, and Gradualls. <HI>Simmachus,</HI> the <HI>gloria in Excel&s;is: Aga|petus</HI> 1. Proce&s;&s;ions, <HI>Pelagius,</HI> 2. the 9. Prefaces before the Cannon. <HI>Sergius</HI> 1. brought in <HI>Agnus dei. Gregory</HI> 1. confe&s;&s;eth, that one <HI>Schola&s;ticus</HI> made mo&s;t part of the Cannon. Thus you may perceiue that there is not written in the fore-head and outward profe&s;&s;ion of your Head Pa&s;tors, and Church <HI>Holines vnto the Lord.</HI> But rather Idolatrous &s;uper&s;tition, and vngodlines to the Prince of darkne&s;&s;e, and to Antichri&s;t. For the&s;e things that I haue recited, being in your publique &s;er|vice booke, cannot be proved by the word of God, which is the Cannon &amp; rule of holines, by which the vi&s;ible church of God, &s;hould direct her &s;elfe.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB REF="94">
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>It is nothing yet you haue &s;ayd; for the Church is holy by her faith, for Chri&s;t hath promi&s;ed, that her faith &s;hall not faile: and &s;he hath the &s;pirit to lead her into all truth, and Chri&s;t prayed that</HI> Peters <HI>faith &s;hould not faile. Therefore the Church of</HI> Rome <HI>is ho|ly in faith, for that was</HI> Peters <HI>Bi&s;hopricke, and the promi&s;e belong|eth to the Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>and the po&s;terity thereof after him, to the end of the world.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Faine you would proue your Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> a true Chuch by this marke of holines, and her holines by her faith: But alas you cannot. Chri&s;ts promi&s;e indeede is certaine, and doth not faile any of the elect; for their faith &s;hall never faile, nor the Gates of hell &s;hall never prevaile again&s;t it. This pro|mi&s;e was made to <HI>Peter;</HI> but you mu&s;t con&s;ider that it was made to him, as he was one of the elect of God: and a faithful Di&s;ciple of his Lord and Ma&s;ter, and the effect of it was, that his faith in that his Lord and Ma&s;ter Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, &s;hould ne|ver vtterly faile, how-&s;oever he might &s;lip and fall. And hee prayed for <HI>Peter,</HI> as he prayed for every faithfull man, who&s;e faith doth not faile, but is the hand and in&s;trument of their &s;alvation. Thus you may &s;ee, what errors and ab&s;urdities your Church doth runne into, by not holding a di&s;tinction, be|tweene men as they are of the vi&s;ible, and as they are of the in|vi&s;ible Church. And for as much as your Church doth bragg, as other heretickes doe, of the promi&s;e of the &s;pirit: let me tell you that the &s;pirit, is alwayes joyned with the Word; for the&s;e are in&s;eparable. Marke what the Prophet <HI>E&s;ay</HI> &s;aith of the new covenant, in the&s;e words: <HI>And I will make this my covenant with them &s;aith the Lord, my &s;pirit that is vpon thee, and my words which I haue put in thy mouth: &s;hall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy &s;eede, nor out of the mouth of the &s;eede of thy &s;eede, &s;aith the Lord: from hence forth even for ever.</HI> The word and &s;pirit cannot bee di&s;ioyned, without fearefull &s;acriledge: therefore our Saviour Chri&s;t &s;aith, <HI>when the comforter is come,</HI> meaning the &s;pirit of truth, <HI>he &s;hall leade you into all truth: and he &s;hall bring all things to your remembrance which I haue told you.</HI> And he &s;aith to the Apo&s;tles, in Saint <HI>Mathew</HI> by comman|dement,
<PB REF="95"> <HI>teaching them to ob&s;erue all things,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Iath. 28.20.</NOTE> <HI>what&s;oever I haue commaunded you.</HI> And to this, hee promi&s;es his pre&s;ence, <HI>loe I am with you alway to the end of the world.</HI> So that you &s;ee that the &s;pirit doth leade the Church into the truth of Chri&s;t, and bringeth it to their remembrance; and the Apo&s;tles mu&s;t teach nothing, but that which Chri&s;t commaunded them. And therefore the Church of <HI>Rome</HI> doth wickedly, to teach for doc|trine, any thing which cannot be proved by the Word of Chri&s;t: and therefore by this marke of holines, &s;he is no true holy Church of Chri&s;t; becau&s;e &s;everall Articles of her faith, haue no ground in the &s;criptures, which is the holy Word of faith.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Are you able to proue that the Church of</HI> Rome, <HI>cannot proue all her articles of faith by &s;criptures?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea that I can, fir&s;t &s;he can never proue it lawfull for the word and &s;criptures of God, and the publike wor&s;hip and &s;er|vice of the Church, to bee in an vnknowne tongue: but wee can proue the &s;criptures condemne it. Secondly, you cannot proue that the Pope and Church, can take away from the Lai|tie, the Cup and Sacrament of the body and bloud of Chri&s;t. Thirdly, they cannot proue their religious wor&s;hip of Ima|ges. Fourthly, they cannot proue, that <HI>Peter</HI> was Bi&s;hop of <HI>Rome,</HI> and that <HI>Linus, Cletus</HI> and <HI>Clement</HI> were his &s;ucce&s;&s;ors there. The&s;e points there is not &s;o much as a &s;eeming &s;hew in &s;cripture to proue them: many other Articles of their faith, they endevour to proue by &s;cripture, which are controverted betweene them and vs, but the cannot. The Church of <HI>Rome</HI> proclaimes to the World, that &s;hee is the pillar and ground of truth: I would to God, &s;he were as &s;he profe&s;&s;eth her &s;elfe to be: Then would &s;he vphold the truth, but &s;he rather vphold|eth, and &s;preadeth her owne deceitfull Doctrine, then the truth of God. Oh that &s;he were as <HI>Paul</HI> was, <HI>pure from the bloud of all men:</HI> then &s;he &s;hould doe as <HI>Paul</HI> did; <HI>keepe nothing backe, but &s;hew the whole Councell of God to the people.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ct. 20.26.28</NOTE> But &s;he is, I dare be bold to &s;peake it, guilty of the bloud of many millions of Chri&s;tian &s;oules, by keeping backe and concealing, the coun|&s;ells of God from the people. And be&s;ides what Mini&s;ter &s;o|ever
<PB N="173" REF="95"> doth keepe backe nothing of the coun&s;ells of God from the people, but doth labour to teach them the whole will of God revealed in the &s;criptures, &s;o farre forth as God in mercy, hath inlightened him; and what people &s;oever, doe &s;pend their liues and conver&s;ations according to Gods holy coun|&s;ells and will to them taught; &s;halbe &s;ure (if they come with|in the reach of the v&s;urping juri&s;diction of your Pope, and Church of <HI>Rome:</HI>) to endure the heauie templation of Fagot and Fire, as from the greate&s;t adver&s;ary, that Sathan hath rai|&s;ed in the World, again&s;t Gods holy truth, and the holy pro|fe&s;&s;ors thereof in the vi&s;ible Church, and that vnder the hypo|criticall name of the holy Mother Church. Without holines it is impo&s;ible to &s;ee God, as the &s;cripture &s;aith. None mu&s;t come nigh vnto God that is not holy: none &s;hall po&s;&s;e&s;&s;e the eternall habitation of holines in the heavens, but tho&s;e that haue the beginnings of holines heere on earth: therefore the Lord hath &s;et downe &s;uch rules and lawes of holines in the holy &s;criptures, as will make men holy in his &s;ight; if they in their cour&s;e of life, take heede there-vnto. Now the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> enjoynes to be ob&s;erved by her Children, &s;uch lawes and things as the &s;criptures never &s;anctified nor made holy for his religious &s;ervice. The&s;e are the things which your Church calleth holy, as holy Images, holy Crucifixes, holy Beads, holy Water, holy P<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">xe: and in Bapti&s;me they add ho|ly Oyle, holy Creame, holy Salt, holy Spittle: and their Pil|grimages, which be meerly &s;uper&s;titious, as to the Lady <HI>Lore|to,</HI> the Lady <HI>Wal&s;ingham,</HI> and multitudes of things they cau&s;e you to doe, which you are per&s;waded in your ignorance, that you are the holyer by them. Alas poore &s;oules! Oh that you had hearts to beleeue what Chri&s;t hath &s;aid in the&s;e words! The words that I preach, &s;hall Iudge you at the latter day. He preached by <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> and the Prophets, he preached by his owne Per&s;on, and by his Apo&s;tles, and none of them did &s;hew any holines in &s;uch ridiculous and childi&s;h toyes, but rather condemne them: and hee will one day call you to account for them, as is expre&s;&s;ed in the holy &s;cripture, in the&s;e words, who required tho&s;e things at your hands? It is not your holy Fa|ther
<PB N="174" REF="96"> the Pope, nor you holy Mother the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> will beare you out in that great day of reckoning: for to you &s;hall then be &s;aid, I gaue you the light of my Go&s;pell which was glorious; but ye loved rather the <HI>Egyptian</HI> darknes of <HI>Rome:</HI> It wil be then &s;aid, I gaue you my word, to be a lanthorne to your feete, and a light vnto your paths: but you walked ignorant|ly, by an <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">mplicit faith in darknes, taught you by the Church of <HI>Rome.</HI> Your con&s;ciences doe now lye a&s;leepe, in a dead &s;e|curitie in the lappe of the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> as ma&s;tife Doggs, chained in their kennells: But in the la&s;t day, at the great ac|count, they wilbe wakned and torment you, accu&s;e, witnes, and condemne you before the great Iudge Chri&s;t; for con|temning his Word of truth, which is able to &s;aue your &s;oules, and to make you perfect in the wayes of holines. This word of truth, is truely reade and preached heare in this I&s;land of ours, by Pa&s;tors lawfully &s;ent, as I haue formerly proved: which I would haue you and all others, as you tender your owne eternall good both of &s;oule a body, &s;eriou&s;ly to con&s;i|der: and thus I haue made an end of your marke of holines of the vi&s;ible Church.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, I haue given you the hearing all this while, but let vs pro|ceede to another marke.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George</SPEAKER>
<P>It is to little purpo&s;e, to be large in other markes; &s;eeing without &s;oundnes of Doctrine, all your markes, doe not di&s;|cover a true pure Church without it: and therefore for other markes, I will now but as it were touch them. And as for an|tiquitie, one of your markes I haue &s;hewed already: that ours, is as ancient as yours, if not before it in antiquity, but for foundnes of doctrine; it is before it in antiquity as the ancient recordes of the &s;criptures doe te&s;tifye, and I haue proved vnto you.</P>
<P>And as I haue &s;hewed vnto you, that faith and doctrine is e&s;&s;entiall to the vi&s;ible Church, for it is the forme and life|blood of the Church; &s;o let mee (as I thinke) explaine it to you by a fit &s;imilitude. A man of a Noble family in our king|dome, very anciently de&s;cended, and truely honourable by de&s;cent in blood; If hee wickedly commite treachery again&s;t
<PB REF="96"> our King and his royall i&s;&s;ue, or again&s;t the &s;tate; Is not his blood of honour, both for him&s;elfe, and his po&s;terity tainted, and quite extingui&s;hed by his great di&s;loyaltie? Even by the lawes of our kingdome, he cannot now in any ca&s;e pleade his prerogatiues of honour; neither can his i&s;&s;ue, vnle&s;&s;e the King re&s;tore them. Let vs apply this &s;imilitude; our Church whil&s;t it remained with your Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> and held com|munion with her, was a long time polluted in her bloud: The forme, faith, and life of her, was &s;o corrupted by con&s;en|ting to the di&s;loyall treachery again&s;t God, and his Sonne Chri&s;t and all his Children; that had not our mo&s;t gracious God, re&s;tored her to her ancient Nobilitie and honour, by making her through his grace, a&s;hamed of her Idolatry and &s;uper&s;tition, and fal&s;e-wor&s;hip, which &s;he treacherou&s;ly practi|&s;ed with the Church of <HI>Rome:</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Iere 6 15.</NOTE> and al&s;o cau&s;ed her to &s;tand in the wayes, as the Prophet <HI>Ieremy</HI> exhorted the Iewes to <HI>aske af|ter the old and ancient wayes of the Lord, which is the good way,</HI> from which with the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> &s;hee had a long time gone a&s;tray, &s;he had &s;till remained Ignoble and di&s;honour|able. It had beene vaine, and to no purpo&s;e, to pleade her an|cient Nobility of an ancient Church, con&s;idering whil&s;t &s;hee remained with you, &s;hee was polluted in her life-bloud, by treacherous Idolatry and &s;uper&s;tition: but now,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Ier. 6.16.</NOTE> by Gods free mercy and favour, &s;he hath obeyed his voyce and command by the mini&s;try of the Prophet <HI>Ieremy. For &s;hee hath &s;tood in the wayes, and asked for the old way, which is the good way,</HI> and found it: and &s;he teacheth her Children to walke therein, that they might finde re&s;t vnto their &s;oules. So that the ancient Church of God now liveth in her, and all other parts of the vi&s;ible Church, in whom the Lord hath re&s;tored the pure life of faith and doctrine: &s;o that now wee may iu&s;tly &s;tand vpon our No|ble and honourable antiquity, as a prorogatiue which cannot iu&s;tly be gain&s;ayed.</P>
<P>And now for the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> we confe&s;&s;e that &s;he was an ancient, honourable, and Noble Church of Chri&s;t; but her ca&s;e is altred, for &s;he hath lo&s;t the be&s;t part of her Nobility, and antiquity, and that by meere treachery both again&s;t Chri&s;t
<PB REF="97"> and his Church: her ancient Noble-bloud of found doctrine, is &s;tained with novelty and here&s;ie many wayes, as hath beene abundantly proved vnto her by many of our learned Divines. But as the Prophet <HI>Ieremy</HI> &s;aid of the Iewes Church; <HI>they were not a&s;hamed:</HI> So may we &s;ay of <HI>Rome,</HI> that &s;he is not a&s;hamed of her abominations,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Iere. 6.15.16.</NOTE> although &s;he hath beene never &s;o lovingly exhorted by the Lord; and that by the mini&s;try of his &s;ervants in the&s;e latter times. The old and ancient wayes of the Lord, which is the good way, is contemned, her owne wayes newly devi&s;ed by her &s;elfe imbraced, and of her Children obeyed: And therefore I mu&s;t needs conclude, that &s;he is yet defiled in her bloud, by hereticall novelty; and therefore in vaine for her to plead for her proofe to bee a true Church by her marke of antiquity.</P>
<P>And for your marke of multitude, it is &s;trange it &s;hould bee counted a marke of a vi&s;ible Church; whereas it is rather a marke of the wicked routes of the Devill: For &s;o the Heathens might haue oppo&s;ed &s;ometime again&s;t the Church and &s;aid, we haue all Nations but one, and in that one Nation all fami|lies again&s;t one or two:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Gene. 6.</NOTE> as in the time of <HI>Noe,</HI> they that are called men of renowne, &amp; intituled the &s;onnes of God, mock|ed both <HI>Noe,</HI> and his Religion. And likewi&s;e when the Lord made choi&s;e of <HI>Abrahams</HI> family, and placed them in the land of <HI>Canaan;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">1 King. 12.</NOTE> tenne tribes again&s;t <HI>Iuda,</HI> and in <HI>Iuda</HI> and <HI>I&s;rael,</HI> the Idolaters more in number then the godly: for <HI>Elias</HI> com|plained, <HI>he was left alone:</HI> again&s;t one good Prophet, namely <HI>Michea,</HI> there &s;tood vp foure hundred fal&s;e. And the Pro|phet <HI>Ieremiah</HI> cryes,<NOTE PLACE="marg">1. King 22. Ier. 4.9.</NOTE> <HI>that all the people is deceived, even their Kings, their Prie&s;ts, and their Prophets:</HI> and what &s;aith the Pro|phet <HI>E&s;ay;</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">E&s;a. 53.1.</NOTE> <HI>Who will beleeue our report? And to whom is the arme of the Lord revealed?</HI> And God &s;aith in <HI>Exodus: Thou &s;halt not follow a multitude to doe evill.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Exod. 23.2.</NOTE> And what &s;aith our Saviour? <HI>Wide is the gate that leadeth to de&s;truction, and many there be that goe in thereat.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Math. 7 13. Luke 12.32.</NOTE> And againe our Saviour &s;aith; <HI>Feare not little flocke, it is your Fathers will to giue you the Kingdome.</HI> And thus you &s;ee, that the &s;malle&s;t number is rather a marke of Gods Church, then the greate&s;t.</P>
<PB REF="97">
<P>And for your marke of Revelations, or Vi&s;ions, or Prophe&s;ies, which are a kinde of myracles: and therefore I will be breife in them altogether. I will alledge a plaine text to confute them, that they &s;hall not &s;tand as markes of the true Church of God, I pray you giue good heed to this text I &s;hall alledge, for it overthroweth all the myracles and prophe&s;ies your Church doth &s;o much brag of, to the deceiuing of the &s;imple: the words are the&s;e. <HI>If there &s;hal ari&s;e &s;aith the Lord, in the mid&s;t of thee, a Prophet, or a Dreamer of dreames, and the &s;igne or wonder, which hee hath told thee come to pa&s;&s;e, whereof he &s;pake vnto thee, &s;aying let vs goe after other Go<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">, &amp;c.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Deut 13.</NOTE> <HI>Thou &s;halt not hearke~ to the words of that Prophet.</HI> So that admit the church of <HI>Rome</HI> &s;hould performe &s;ome miraculous &s;igne or wonder to co~|firme &s;ome fal&s;e Doctrine of hers, and that the myracle were true in effect: yet the end of this myracle being fal&s;e, which is <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">o draw men to the &s;ervice of fal&s;e Gods, or the true God in a f<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">l&s;e wor&s;hip: we mu&s;t not heare the fal&s;e Prophet, nor obey his Doctrine, but we mu&s;t try the doctrine by the touch &s;tone of the Scriptures, as you haue formerly heard. S. <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith, that they that haue gifts of Prophe&s;ie, mu&s;t prophe&s;ie according to the analogie, or proporti|on of faith: And therefore mu&s;t be tryed by it, as S. <HI>Iohn</HI> &s;aith: <HI>try the &s;pirits, whether they be of God or not.</HI> And if you will &s;ee what <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith in the <HI>The&s;&s;a:</HI> for there he &s;aith, <HI>that Antichri&s;t &s;hall come,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Rom. 12.<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"></NOTE> even by the effectuall working of Sathan, <HI>with all power, and &s;ignes,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> The&s;&s;a.</NOTE> <HI>and lying wonders.</HI> And this place I would haue you, and all private Chri&s;tians well to con&s;ider; as you tender your owne woe &amp; mi&s;e|ry, or your owne bli&s;&s;e and happines for ever. For if the Pope be <HI>Antichri&s;t,</HI> as I take it to be mo&s;t certaine that hee is, who&s;e com|ming is not onely with lying &s;ignes, and wonders, but al&s;o in all deceivablenes of vnrighteou&s;nes; then mu&s;t your e<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="3 letters">te needes <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">e mo&s;t dangerous and lamentable: For, to whom doth h<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 word"> Even among them that peri&s;h. And why do they peri&s;h? <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">he <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">+&s;on is, <HI>becau&s;e they received not the loue of the truth that t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="3 letters"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 word"> bee &s;aved.</HI> See the Iudgement of God vpon t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">em <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 span"> be|leeue the truth: For it is &s;aid,<NOTE PLACE="marg">V<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="3 letters">e 11.</NOTE> <HI>Therefore God &s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">all <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 span"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">+lu&s;ions, that they &s;hould beleeue lyes.</HI> O fearefu<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 span"> is, that all they might be damned which beleeue no<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 span">: But had plea&s;ure in vnrighteou&s;nes. What Chri&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="4 letters"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 span"> reading this place, being truely touched with <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">p<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">r<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">tuall comi&s;er<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">+tion,
<PB N="178" REF="98"> that doth not from his &s;oule, co~mi&s;erate and pitty the fearefull e&s;tate of tho&s;e of your religion that liue in this our Church, where the truth of God, and of Chri&s;t Ie&s;us our Lord, is &s;o powerfully, &s;o purely, &amp; &s;o &s;incerely taught. And yet haue plea&s;ure in a deceitfull and an vnrighteous Doctrine taught them, by that man of <HI>Sinne:</HI> and &s;uch as are deceitfully &s;ent from him. I doe now purpo&s;e to conclude our conference at this time, but I cannot breake off, with|out a friendly and Chri&s;tian like exhortation; and could wi&s;h that my head &amp; heart were a fountain of teares for you all, that I might truely weepe for your mi&s;ery that will come vpon you except ye repent, and for&s;ake the fal&s;e Doctrine taught you by the Church of <HI>Rome.</HI> I doe therefore as a private Chri&s;tian Brother, exhort you Seniour <HI>Philip,</HI> and all other that are e&s;tranged from the truth, to be reconciled vnto God, and expre&s;&s;e your reconciliation to the World, by your frequenting the &s;chooles of the truth, that the e&s;|&s;ence of truth Chri&s;t Ie&s;us hath directed here, for it is that truth that is able to &s;aue your &s;oules. But if you will not receiue the loue of Gods truth, and for&s;ake deceitfull and vnrighteous doctrines. Then your ca&s;e is dangerous, &amp; much more dangerous then tho&s;e of your religion, that haue not lived vnder the cleare light of Gods truth as you haue done. In the meane time, I will not giue over, to pray vnto the God of truth, that you may come to the &s;aving know|ledge of truth, that you may be &s;aved and liue ble&s;&s;edly for ever.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Phi.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Well, I like wel your mind, if it were guided by the truth, which it cannot be, except you were reconciled to the church of truth, which is the Church of</HI> Rome.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Your Church of <HI>Rome</HI> is not a Church of truth, as hath bene largely proved, by our Divines in their Sermons and writings, and my &s;elfe in a weake mea&s;ure in our conference of the Church vi&s;ible haue &s;hewed vnto you.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Haue you any more to &s;ay of the vi&s;ible Church?</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>Surely I haue done at this time, what I meant to &s;ay of the vi&s;ible Church; and I pray God it may profit you and other poore &s;imple &s;educed &s;oules, who are ignorant what the church is, and whereof it doth con&s;i&s;t. It now remaineth that we &s;hould con|ferre of the faith of the vi&s;ible church, but I told you at the fir&s;t be|ginning of our confere~ce, that the di&s;cour&s;e co~cerning the faith of the vi&s;ible church would be &s;ome-what large: and &s;ure Seig: <HI>Philip,</HI>
<PB REF="98"> I doe not know whether I &s;hall liue to haue conferrence with you about it: for the faith of the church is, as health &amp; life to the body; and they that &s;hould confer with you about it, had need to be very judicious to edifie you in it. I haue hitherto but a little touched the life of the vi&s;ible church, and I doe de&s;ire with my heart, that &s;ome wi&s;e judicious private Chri&s;tian, would privately confer with you about the health &amp; life of the vi&s;ible church; we in our conference of the vi&s;ible church, haue but as it were &s;urveyed the outward parts of the church. That which followeth to be treated of, is the very anatomizing of the vi&s;ible church, by &s;earching into the &s;pi|rit and life of the vi&s;ible church: &amp; he that &s;hould confer with you, had neede to be well read in the Doctrine of the pure Orthodoxall church, and al&s;o of the Doctrine of tho&s;e two parts of the vi&s;ible Church, which we haue hitherto treated of, I meane the church of <HI>Rome,</HI> and the Church of great <HI>Brittain,</HI> he had neede to be no No|vice in the &s;ingular Art of divine <HI>Theologie,</HI> that he might be wi&s;e, to di&s;cover the di&s;ea&s;es and &s;ickne&s;&s;es of both the&s;e two parts of the Church, and be wi&s;e al&s;o to &s;hew their care in this: I confe&s;&s;e that my Iudgement is too weake. I want both Arts and Learning, and the gift of tongues: but yet I could finde in my heart, to draw out a plot and referre the building to them that are wi&s;er, if any judici|ous private Chri&s;tian of our religion will vnder-take it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Come on then I pray you, let me &s;ee your plot, and I will &s;hew you how I like it.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>I haue in our conference of the vi&s;ible Church, &s;hewed that Chri&s;t Ie&s;us being perfect man, is every where in the &s;cripture cal|led our Lord, and that he is the Lord, both of heaven &amp; earth, and that it is e&s;&s;entiall to the vi&s;ible church, &s;o to confe&s;&s;e and acknow|ledge him. Now in this, I would aske your Iudgement, whether that part of the vi&s;ible, church which doe by their Doctrine mo&s;t purely preach to the world, the <HI>Soveraignty</HI> of his Lord &s;hip, and do giue vnto him, all his dignities and prerogatiues royall, both in heaven and earth: be the &s;afe&s;t Church for a private man to joyne with, and &s;ubmit him&s;elfe vnto for the guide of his &s;oule and body vnto everla&s;ting life?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I an&s;wer, it is the &s;afe&s;t to &s;ubmit vnto, and that is the Church of</HI> Rome.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Geo.</SPEAKER>
<P>Again, I aske your Iudgement, whether the Church be the &s;afe&s;t
<PB REF="99"> to joyne with, that doth mo&s;t purely preach faith in his name?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I &s;ay it is the &s;afe&s;t, and that al&s;o the Church of</HI> Rome.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George.</SPEAKER>
<P>Againe, I aske you whereas <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith, there is one Lord, one Faith, one Bapti&s;me. Which bapti&s;me is the mini&s;teriall In&s;tru|ment, which the vi&s;ible Church doth v&s;e to initiate and knit men vnto Chri&s;t, and his mi&s;ticall body: whether that Church which teacheth mo&s;t purely, the Doctrine of &s;acramentall vnion with Chri&s;t by bapti&s;me be your &s;afe&s;t cour&s;e to joyne with?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I &s;ay it is the &s;afe&s;t, and that al&s;o is the Church of</HI> Rome.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Geo.</SPEAKER>
<P>I will aske you three que&s;tions of another &s;ort, the fir&s;t is, that whereas all things mu&s;t be done to the glory of God; whether the Church be the &s;afe&s;t to joyne with, &amp; &s;ubmit vnto, that doth mo&s;t glorifie God by her doctrine?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I &s;ay it is the &s;afe&s;t, which is the Church of</HI> Rome.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Geo.</SPEAKER>
<P>The 2. que&s;tion of this &s;ort, is that, whereas that none but tho&s;e which are humble, are fitt for grace; therefore is not that Church the &s;afe&s;t to &s;ubmitte vnto, that doth by her doctrine, throw men down in the &s;ight of their mi&s;ery, by &s;in, both originall, &amp; actual?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>I &s;ay it is the &s;afe&s;t, which is the Church of</HI> Rome.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>A third que&s;tion of the &s;econd &s;ort, whether the church, when a &s;infull man is humbled in the &s;ight of his mi&s;ery by &s;inne, is the &s;afe&s;t to joyne with, that by her Doctrine doth mini&s;terially be&s;t re&s;tore, and lift him vp to a &s;tate of grace?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>This al&s;o is the &s;afe&s;t, and that is the Church of</HI> Rome.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>There are foure que&s;tions more to aske you, but I will include them all in one: There are foure grounds of religion, as fir&s;t, the Creede, the &s;econd, the Lords prayer, the third, the Sacraments, the fourth and la&s;t the ten Commandements. And is that the &s;afe&s;t Church that te<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">cheth the&s;e foure grounds mo&s;t purely?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Philip,</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Yes no que&s;tion, and that is al&s;o the Church of</HI> Rome.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>George,</SPEAKER>
<P>The&s;e points I thought good, to lay as a ground for a further di&s;pute, concerning the faith and life of a Church vi&s;ible, the Doc|trines of the&s;e points taught by the Church of England, being compared, it will be found, that the Church of England is the &s;afe&s;t to joyne with in Gods &s;ervice vnto &s;alvation.</P>
</SP>
<TRAILER>FINIS.</TRAILER>
<PB REF="99">
</DIV1>
</BODY>
</TEXT>
</EEBO>
</ETS>
