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<DATE>04-06-11</DATE>
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<NAME>Mona Logarbo</NAME>
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<VID>175323</VID>
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<TEXT LANG="eng">
<FRONT>
<DIV1 TYPE="title page">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<P><HI>Quakeri&s;m</HI> The My&s;tery of INIQUITY Di&s;covered: In a Brief DIALOGUE Between A Chri&s;tian &amp; a Quaker: By way of Supplement To my former Papers Exhibited in <HI>D&V;BLIN</HI> again&s;t them, in two of the mo&s;t important par|ticulars charg'd upon them; <HI>Viz.</HI> The Holy Scriptures, and our Lord <HI>Je&s;us Christ;</HI> in which it doth mo&s;t evidently appear, that both are denied by them, in a true, Chri&s;tian, and proper &s;en&s;e.</P>
<P>By <HI>John Plimpton.</HI></P>
<P><HI>D&V;BLIN,</HI> Printed 1698.</P>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="to the reader">
<PB REF="2">
<PB REF="2">
<OPENER><SALUTE>Reader,</SALUTE></OPENER>
<P><HI>I</HI> Shall here pre&s;ent thee with this en&s;u|ing Dialogue, between <HI>a Chri&s;tian</HI> and <HI>a Quaker;</HI> In which are faithfully repre|&s;ented, the Quakers Opinions concerning the Holy Scriptures, and our Ble&s;&s;ed Lord and Saviour Je&s;us Chri&s;t. I doubt not but it will be return'd, as forgeries and fictions, upon my own head, the common an&s;wer they have for all their Adver&s;aries: But I am con&s;cious to my &s;elf that I have not wrong'd them in any thing, either by mi&s;-reading, curtailing, mi&s;-con&s;truing, or mi&s;-applying any pa&s;&s;age I have quoted out of their Books. I am willing therefore to appear in publick, that &s;o the&s;e things may be more fully, clearly, and plainly di&s;covered and laid open for common benefit, and for examination of my charges, to &s;ee if I have wrong'd them or not: But this you &s;ee they wholly de|cline; and their rea&s;on is, becau&s;e I am an ignorant, conceited, and empty per&s;on, and therefore they think them&s;elves not accoun|table for the&s;e things, unto a per&s;on under my circum&s;tance, &amp;c. but certainly this is but a Quakers Quibble, as all men may plainly di&s;cern; for if they think them|&s;elves
<PB REF="3">
not oblig'd to meet me in publick, why do they &s;o much concern them&s;elves in Prin|ting, one Pamphlet after another, and to exhibit the &s;ame up and down privately; is it not to cover over their deceit and wickedne&s;s, and to in&s;inuate upon peoples minds, that they are better in their Opinions than really they are. Now, to the end I might not be burthen&s;ome to my &s;elf in writing, nor to the Reader in reading, I &s;hall only in&s;i&s;t upon the&s;e two things before men|tioned: for if the true Chri&s;t be denied by them, then is Satisfaction, Ju&s;tification, Bapti&s;m, and the Lord's Supper, and all other things clearly gone; the foundation being de&s;troyed, the hou&s;e mu&s;t of nece&s;&s;ity fall. Now I do affirm, Chri&s;t and the Scriptures are divided by them; and therefore all they &s;ay of them, is but meer Equivocations, and the Quakers Mini&s;try are but meer Impo|&s;ters and Cheats.</P>
<P>Con&s;ider well what thou reade&s;t, and the Lord give thee under&s;tanding. If God &s;hall have any glory, and thou &s;halt receive any benefit, I have my end,</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>J. P.</SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
</FRONT>
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="dialogue">
<PB N="5" REF="3">
<HEAD>A BRIEF DIALOGUE Between A CHRISTIAN &amp; a Quaker.</HEAD>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chri|&s;tian.</SPEAKER>
<P>VVEll met Neighbour, I would fain have &s;ome Di&s;cour&s;e with you: for I have read in &s;everal of your Adver&s;aries Books, that you hold dangerous Errors, a&s;&s;erting tho&s;e things that are notoriou&s;ly fal&s;e, and denying tho&s;e things that are re|ally true; and more particularly, the holy Scriptures, and our Lord and Sa|viour Je&s;us Chri&s;t. What &s;aye&s;t thou to this?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Quaker.</SPEAKER>
<P>I have told thee, &s;trainings, perver&s;ions, and fal&s;e inferences, are the frequent practice of our Adver&s;aries, <HI>the Qua. a Chri&s;tian, p.</HI> 3.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>I know this is your common an|&s;wer,
<PB N="6" REF="4">
but whether it be true, I que&s;tion. What &s;aye&s;t thou therefore to the Scrip|tures?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>I do declare to the whole world, that we believe the Scriptures to con|tain a declaration of the mind and will of God, in and to tho&s;e ages in which they were written, <HI>ibid. p.</HI> 9.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>What is this to the purpo&s;e; I know thou can&s;t u&s;e a thou&s;and &s;uch E|quivocations: But tell me plainly, are the Scriptures the rule of Faith and Pra|ctice, or not?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Becau&s;e we deny the Scriptures to be the rule of Faith and Practice, in honour to that divine light that gave them forth, <HI>ibid. p.</HI> 15.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Wilt thou confe&s;s my charges, and yet think to prove thy &s;elf a Chri|&s;tian, and render my Impeachment as vain; certainly thou art infatuated, or wor&s;e, otherwi&s;e thou would'&s;t never talk at &s;uch a vain rate, and render thy &s;elf &s;uch a ridiculous Scribler to all the world.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Thou ha&s;t left out what follows, <HI>viz.</HI> which was the Author of them in
<PB N="7" REF="4">
the holy Pen-men; that we &s;hould therefore deny all tho&s;e holy precepts, commandments and rules relating to life and godline&s;s that are therein con|tained,&mdash;If thou had'&s;t cited this, thou had'&s;t lo&s;t thy end; as not doing it, &s;hews thy malice and folly together, <HI>ibid.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Thou ha&s;t ab&s;olutely denied them to be the rule of Faith and Pra|ctice; and yet in the &s;ame breath would'&s;t have me believe that thou do'&s;t own tho&s;e holy precepts, com|mandments and rules relating to life and godline&s;s therein contained: Is not this to &s;ay, they are not to be believed nor practiced; and yet to &s;ay they ought to be believed and practiced; and is not this heterodox: or are we to own that for precepts, commandments, and rules, which we are not to believe, which is ab&s;urd. But &s;ince you &s;eem to own the Scriptures in &s;ome &s;en&s;e, do you own them to be the true &s;ayings of God?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea, &s;o far as they agree to the Light within?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>'Tis evident what e&s;teem you
<PB N="8" REF="5">
have of the Scriptures, &s;ince you own the&s;e holy precepts, commandments and rules therein contained, no farther than the Light within directs you.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>I have told thee this is forgery, palpable forgery, <HI>Count. Chri&s;t. p.</HI> 11.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>I know you are ready to accu&s;e me of forgery: but pray tell me how far you do own and receive them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>By what rule &s;hall we be con|vinced, that the Scripture is the only rule of Life, and hath this eminency above the Spirit: we own the Spirit to be the only rule and guide into all truth,&mdash;and is the only rule now to under|&s;tand the Scriptures; <HI>G. W. Apol. p.</HI> 48.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Thou querie&s;t here by what rule thou maye&s;t be convinced that the Scrip|tures are the only rule: Hence 'tis evi|dent thou do&s;t not own them &s;o to be; and then &s;aye&s;t the Spirit is the only rule to guide into all truth, and to under|&s;tand the Scriptures by: is not <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 word"> to grant what is charg'd upon you <HI>viz.</HI> that you deny them to be the <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">ule of Faith and Practice, and that you own them no further man they agree with the Light within.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="9" REF="5">
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>I would fain know of tho&s;e of our pre&s;ent age,&mdash;upon what foot they receive them into this place and authority; is it by tradition, or revela|tion? I mean the internal te&s;timony of the Spirit, or the external award and avouchment of men: if the former, they unavoidably come over to us; for then the Spirit will, and mu&s;t be both rule and judge, <HI>W. Pen Chri&s;tian Qua|ker, p.</HI> 141.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Then the rea&s;on why men ought to live up to tho&s;e holy rules laid down in the Scriptures, is not from that di|vine authority that is impo&s;ed upon them: men are no further obliged either to Faith or Obedience, than the Light within moves them thereunto, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> The Scriptures mu&s;t be receiv'd upon the authority of the Light within, or upon the authority of men, or upon their own authority: both the latter are ab&s;urd in your eyes, therefore the former only is true. Not from men, nor tradition, for thou &s;aye&s;t that is Popery, and believing as the Church believes, <HI>ibid. p.</HI> 142. again thou querie&s;t, <HI>p.</HI> 140, 141. How &s;hall I
<PB N="10" REF="6">
be a&s;&s;ured the Scriptures came from God? I am bound to try all things, then them among the re&s;t. I would fain know what I mu&s;t try them with? with the Scriptures? then the Scrip|tures mu&s;t be the rule of my examina|tion, and Faith concerning them&s;elves; which is improper. <HI>W. Pen,</HI> ha&s;t thou not here reprobated the Scriptures with a witne&s;s! certainly you are the mo&s;t prodigious Hereticks and Impo&s;ters that ever any age did produce.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Whether the fir&s;t Penman of the Scriptures was <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> or <HI>Hermes?</HI> or whether both the&s;e are not one? or whether there are not many words con|tained in the Scriptures, which were not &s;poken by in&s;piration of the holy Spirit? whether &s;ome words were not &s;poken by the grand Impo&s;ter, &s;ome by wicked men, &s;ome by wi&s;e men, ill applied; &s;ome by good men, ill expre&s;&s;ed; &s;ome by fal&s;e Prophets, and yet true; &s;ome by true Prophets, and yet fal&s;e? <HI>Qua|kers Refuge, p.</HI> 17.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Well if it be thus, then whether it is not dangerous, to receive the Scrip|tures
<PB N="11" REF="6">
any further then they agree with the Light within? and if <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> and <HI>Her|mes,</HI> be both one; then whether thy que|ry be not frivolous? if not, then whether the fir&s;t, with all the re&s;t of thy queries be not very mi&s;chievous? having this na|tural tendency to prejudice the weak Reader. And &s;o the&s;e things being ta|ken collectively: Whether 1&s;t. thou would&s;t not throw a&s;ide a great part of the holy Scripture as doubtful; particularly the Books of <HI>Mo&s;es.</HI> 2. Whe|ther thou would&s;t not have &s;ome part to be diabolical? 3. Some part fal&s;e. 4. Some part fooli&s;h, both in expre&s;&s;ion and application. 5. And &s;ome part lit|tle to be regarded though true, beeau&s;e &s;poken by Lyars. 6. Some part &s;poken by in&s;piration, and yet of no Authority, becau&s;e fal&s;e: and &s;o no part of it the true Record, or Declaration of God's Love for the Salvation of Mankind; for that, or nothing, is the implication of thy di&s;tinctions: but what further ha&s;t thou to &s;ay.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Though we do &s;ay, men ought to live up to tho&s;e holy rules contained in
<PB N="12" REF="7">
the Scipture, yet the rea&s;on why, is that conviction they meet with from the Light in their own Con&s;ciences: there|fore the Light within is both our war|rant for &s;aith in, and obedience to them, <HI>Rea&s;on again&s;t rail.</HI> pag. 48.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Certainly, thou <HI>(W. Pen)</HI> art a &s;hamele&s;s man, thou do&s;t not care what thou do&s;t affirm, or deny, &s;o it may &s;erve for thy Intere&s;t: but if thou ha&s;t any &s;hame in thee, I will make thee a&s;ham'd. Did&s;t thou not affirm, in pag. 47. that the greate&s;t rea&s;on of your belief concer|ning the Prophe&s;ies, and Promi&s;es recor|ded in the Scriptures, was not from any outward thing, but that inward te&s;ti|mony that you have received from the holy Light within you, to the truth and faithfulne&s;s of tho&s;e &s;ayings. And now <HI>W. P.</HI> after thou had&s;t writ all this, and much more, that might be minded; thou ha&s;t charg'd <HI>T. H.</HI> with forgery, becau&s;e he charg'd the <HI>Quakers</HI> with the truth: certainly thou mu&s;t be an Athie&s;t, or a Per&s;on given up to a reprobate mind, or el&s;e thou could&s;t not remain Impeni|tent, as 'tis evident thou do&s;t, by tho&s;e
<PB N="13" REF="7">
Papers thou ha&s;t &s;et forth of late: Oh! <HI>W. Pen,</HI> repent if thy day of grace be not over. But &s;ince thou ha&s;t &s;o much favour for the Scriptures, as to receive them &s;o far as they agree with the Light within, pray tell me whether you do not e&s;teem your own words (as &s;poken im|mediately by the Spirit) to be of greater authority then any Chapter in the Bible.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>That which was &s;poken from the Spirit of truth in any, is of as great au|thority as the Scriptures, or Chapters are; and greater. <HI>G. W. Apol.</HI> pag. 49.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>But how can that which is &s;po|ken by a <HI>Quaker</HI> (&s;uppo&s;ing though not granting, to be from the Spirit of truth) be of greater authority then that which the holy Spirit hath &s;poken in the Scrip|tures? but &s;ince you exalt your words to be above the Scriptures, pray what do you think of your writings.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Fox</HI> and <HI>Hubberth<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">rne,</HI> in a Book of theirs, called, <HI>Truths Defence,</HI> pag. 2. in an&s;wer to Par&s;on <HI>Comelford</HI> of <HI>Stavely</HI> Chappel; the Auth<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters"> <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">aving &s;ent &s;ome queries to the P<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 chunk">, who in&s;tead of
<PB N="14" REF="8">
&s;wering them, burned them: thereupon he tells the Par&s;on the &s;aid Book and page, that he might as well have con|demned the Scriptures to the fire to be burned, as his queries he &s;ent him; or that he might as well have &s;aid, the &s;ay|ing of Chri&s;t and his Apo&s;tles were ab|&s;ur'd as his queries, they (meaning his Queries) being given forth by the &s;ame Spirit, <HI>&amp;c.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Certainly, the&s;e are great &s;wel|ling words of Vanity; if you propound queries to any, they mu&s;t be e&s;temed e|qual with the Scriptures: but if any propound queries to you, they mu&s;t be doom'd, as conjured up in the black Art, out of the bottomle&s;s pit: that they are the Language of a white devil, pro|pounded in the &s;ubtilty of unclean wi&s;|dom, only to carp, cavil, and to in&s;nare the innocent, Certainly were you &s;uch innocent Per&s;ons, as you pretend to be, you would never exalt your &s;elves, and deba&s;e all others, nay you would not ex|alt your own words, and writings, above, nor equal with the Scriptures. But &s;ince you thus under-value the Scrip|tures,
<PB N="15" REF="8">
don't you believe them to be the true &s;ayings of God.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>I have told thee before, that &s;ome were &s;poken by fal&s;e Prophets, and yet true, and &s;ome by true Prophets, and yet fal&s;e. And <HI>Samuel Fi&s;her</HI> in his ru&s;tick alarm, to the <HI>Rabies,</HI> tells thee, that they are fal&s;e, and fal&s;ified: both Tran&s;cripts and Tran&s;lations; yea, that none of them are right.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Certainly you are vile wretches, the very prodigy of the times we live in, for &s;hould any wi&s;e man read, and con&s;ider well what you have written, he mu&s;t needs conclude, that you have con|&s;pir'd together to under-value the Scrip|tures, and to expo&s;e them to the greate&s;t &s;corn and contempt in the world. But what &s;aith <HI>W. Pen</HI> to this.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>If the Scriptures are the rule, they are &s;o either in their Original or Copies; if in their Original that is not extant, then no rule in being, for the la&s;t of it that was extant. Was <HI>John</HI>'s Hi&s;tory at <HI>Ephe&s;us</HI> not &s;een the&s;e thou|&s;and years: if the Copies mu&s;t be the
<PB N="16" REF="9">
rule, it were to be wi&s;hed, we knew which were the righte&s;t to the Original, there being above thirty in number: this is undetermined, and for ought we &s;ee indeterminable: and that which makes good what I &s;ay, are the variety of readings among tho&s;e Copies, amoun|ting to &s;everal thou&s;ands; and if the Copies cannot, how can the Tran&s;lations be the rule &s;o d<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">ffering from the true &s;ence of the Copies, in many things, and from another: be&s;ides, I would fain know of <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">ho&s;e of our pre&s;ent age, who thus contend for the Scriptures being the rule, <HI>&amp;c.</HI>&mdash;upon what foot they re|ceive them into this place and authority. <HI>W. P. Chri&s;tian Quaker. pag.</HI> 141.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>I perceive thou do&s;t not only deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith and Practice, but do&s;t al&s;o que&s;tion by what authority we do receive them, and thy rea&s;ons for &s;o doing is, 1&s;t. Be|cau&s;e the Original is lo&s;t. 2. Becau&s;e the Copies be above thirty in number. 3. Becau&s;e there be &s;everal thou&s;ands of different readings in tho&s;e Copies. 4. Becau&s;e the Tran&s;lations are &s;o differing
<PB N="17" REF="9">
from the true &s;ence of the Copies in ma|ny things. Thus, oh you <HI>Quakers</HI> have repre&s;ented the Scriptures, in a wor&s;e &s;en&s;e than ever I read or heard any Je|&s;uit, or Romani&s;t ever did; for tho' they cen&s;ure our Tran&s;l<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">tions in &s;ome things, yet I never heard but they did &s;peak well of the Copies. Thus have you rendred the Scriptures altogether unprofitable: For if there be &s;o many thou&s;ands of Errors in them, how &s;hall I know what is right. And &s;o this will make good what you formerly &s;aid, <HI>viz.</HI> That it was dangerous for ignorant Peo|ple to read them. Well, your opinions are &s;o naucious, it makes my &s;tomack be|gin to wamble, it is almo&s;t time to leave it; however before we part, let me ask you one que&s;tion or two more. For &s;ince you pretend &s;ometimes to own tho&s;e holy Precepts, and Commandment therein contained; I would know to whom they are commanded.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>That is no command from God to me, which he commands to another; neither did any of the Saints, we read of in Scripture, act by the command
<PB N="18" REF="10">
which was to another, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> They obeyed every one their own command; and thou <HI>J. Turner,</HI> or any other who goes to Duty, as you call it, by Imitation from the Letter without, which were commands to others, in your own wills and time; your Sacrifice is not accep|ted, but is an abomination to the Lord. <HI>Edw. Borrough's Works. p.</HI> 47.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ch.</SPEAKER>
<P>If it be an abomination to the Lord to do tho&s;e commands which were given to others, as <HI>Borrough</HI>'s &s;ays. And Ido|latry to call the Bible, a means of our knowing God, as <HI>G. W.</HI> &s;ays <HI>Dip. plung'd p.</HI> 13. Then whether we may not ca&s;t off all commands in Scripture, until commanded a-new by the Light within: And whether this be not the rea&s;on why you ca&s;t off all duty? neglecting Prayer in your Familles, not accounting your &s;e<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">ves under that cur&s;e, <HI>Jer.</HI> 10.25. al&s;o craving no ble&s;&s;ing upon your victuals, before you eat, nor returning any thanks after, but &s;it down, and ri&s;e up like hogs. Certainly the&s;e things are very offen&s;ive, to all that are Chri&s;tians indeed. If this be Quakeri&s;m, the Lord deliver me from it. But can'&s;t thou &s;ay no more.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="19" REF="10">
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>By order and authority given me by the Spirit of the Living God, on the 31th day of the 10th month, 1655, about four a clock in the morning, the word of the Lord came to me, &s;aying, write my controver&s;ie with all the In|habitants of the earth. Hence I do &s;ay, that to take up a command from the Letter, and &s;ay Chri&s;t commands it, that thus you are in the witchcraft, <HI>Edw. Burrough</HI>'s works, <HI>p.</HI> 96. compared with. <HI>p.</HI> 105.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Is it witchcraft to &s;tand in awe of Chri&s;t's Commands, to reverence their authority, to endeavour to our ut|mo&s;t an ob&s;ervance thereof? if it be &s;o, I have done with you; and I hope, if all &s;ober Chri&s;tians will con&s;ider the&s;e things, they may ea&s;ily &s;ee what e&s;teem you have of the holy Scriptures: but I will leave it, and proceed to another point.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chri&s;tian.</SPEAKER>
<P>Being well a&s;&s;ured that you deny the Scriptures to be the rule of Faith and Practice, any farther than they agree with the Light within: I
<PB N="20" REF="11">
would fain know what your opinion is concerning Chri&s;t.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qua.</SPEAKER>
<P>Some are not a&s;hamed to tell the world in our name, that Chri&s;t was never vi&s;ible as to his bodily appear|ance, and con&s;equently, that we deny his coming in the fle&s;h above &s;ixteen hundred years ago, tho his coming is an article of our Chri&s;tian Belief, <HI>W. Pen, Truth further cleared, p.</HI> 37.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>I am almo&s;t certain, that never any one accu&s;ed you for denying Chri&s;t's vi&s;ible appearance: that we all accu&s;e you of is, for denying that vi&s;ible appearance to be Chri&s;t, or part of Chri&s;t, to which you will not an|&s;wer directly, &s;ignifying hereby you are pinched.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>We believe and confe&s;s Je&s;us Chri&s;t took our nature upon him, and was like unto us in all things, &s;in ex|cepted: that he was born of the Vir|gin <HI>Mary,</HI> and &s;uffered under <HI>Pontius Pilate,</HI> the Roman Governor, crucified, dead, and buried in the Sepulchre of <HI>Jo|&s;eph</HI> of <HI>Arimathea;</HI> that he ro&s;e again the third day, and a&s;cended into Hea|ven,
<PB N="21" REF="11">
and &s;its on the right hand of God, in the power and maje&s;ty of his Father, who will one day judge the world by him, even that ble&s;&s;ed man Chri&s;t Je&s;us, according to their works, <HI>ibid. p.</HI> 17, 18.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>This Creed &s;eems very plau&s;ible, as tho it were orthodox: but to the end, neither I, nor any others may be deceiv'd by it; I would ask thee the&s;e few que&s;tions; and I prithee an&s;wer me directly: (1&s;t.) Whether Chri&s;t was be|fore he took that body; or whether the taking that body did not con&s;titute him Chri&s;t?</P>
<P N="2">(2.) Whether Chri&s;t was ever vi|&s;ible? or whether he was Chri&s;t only as God, and &s;o never &s;een with mortal eyes?</P>
<P N="3">(3) Whether God is Chri&s;t, and Chri&s;t be the Light? and whether the Light in it &s;elf be the Chri&s;t of God? and if &s;o, whether the Light did &s;uffer under <HI>Pontius Pilate,</HI> was dead and bu|ried, ro&s;e again the third day; and whe|ther the Light is a&s;cended into Heaven, and whether it now &s;its on the right
<PB N="22" REF="12">
hand of God? An&s;wer me briefly, and directly hereunto, that &s;o I may be &s;a|tisfied: I will therefore repeat it again.</P>
<P N="1">(1&s;t.) Whether Chri&s;t was before he took that body? or whether the taking that body did not con&s;titute him Chri&s;t?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qua.</SPEAKER>
<P>Who&s;e are the Fathers, and of whom as concerning the Fle&s;h Chri&s;t came, who is over all, God ble&s;&s;ed for ever, <HI>Amen.</HI> Since here Chri&s;t is di&s;tin|gui&s;hed from the body he took, and made one with that God, who is over all, ble&s;&s;ed for ever, <HI>Amen:</HI> As much as to &s;ay, of who&s;e fle&s;h Chri&s;t took, therefore Chri&s;t was before he took it; or his taking it did not con&s;titute him Chri&s;t, <HI>W. P. Chri&s;t Qua. p.</HI> 97.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>This is a direct an&s;wer, and it puts me out of all doubt, concerning your opinion in this matter: But &s;ince you deny that body to be part of Chri&s;t, was Chri&s;t ever vi&s;ible.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qua.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Abraham</HI> &s;aw my day, and re|ioyced; they &s;till harping upon that vi|&s;ible body, not thirty three years old; rep<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">ied, <HI>thou art not yet fifty, and ha&s;t thou &s;een</HI> Abraham? taking that to be
<PB N="23" REF="12">
the <HI>Me&s;&s;iah,</HI> the Chri&s;t of God, and Sa|viour of the World he meant, which they &s;aw with their carnal eyes, <HI>ibid. p.</HI> 96.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>'Tis believ'd among the Chri|&s;tians that the Godhead, and Manhood conjoint, was the true Chri&s;t; but thou wilt have the Godhead only to be Chri&s;t. Certainly, I think herein ha&s;t thou de|nied the true Chri&s;t; but art thou in good earne&s;t, was Chri&s;t never &s;een with carnal eyes.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qua.</SPEAKER>
<P>Chri&s;t was never &s;een with car|nal eyes, nor heard with carnal ears; <HI>Humphry Wolrich Declaration to the</HI> Bap|ti&s;t, <HI>page</HI> 13.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Do&s;t thou think any rational Man will conclude I have wronged you in calling you Impo&s;ters and Cheats; &s;urely you are no Mini&s;ters of Chri&s;t, but fal&s;e Prophets: becau&s;e you te&s;tifie contrary to the Scriptures; &s;ee <HI>Joh.</HI> 1.29 to the 42. and there you may read Chri&s;t was vi&s;ible, contrary to the bo d a&s;&s;ertions of the <HI>Quakers:</HI> But it may be <HI>John</HI>'s Te&s;timony here agrees not with the Light within, and therefore they re|ceive
<PB N="24" REF="13">
it not; well it agrees with the Light in me, and I had rather believe <HI>John</HI> who &s;aith, <HI>behold the Lamb of God</HI> (for I &s;uppo&s;e he was a Chri&s;tian) then all the <HI>Quakers</HI> in the World: But what &s;aye&s;t thou to this Lamb.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qua.</SPEAKER>
<P>The Outward Lamb &s;hews forth the Inward Lamb. <HI>Chri&s;t. Qua. p.</HI> 97.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>I would fain know what thou meane&s;t by outward and inward Lamb; if by the outward you mean the bodily appearance crucified at <HI>Jeru&s;alem,</HI> then you make good that &s;aying, <HI>Je&s;us Chri&s;t</HI> at <HI>Je&s;ulalem,</HI> a type, a figure, a &s;hadow: If you mean the Pa&s;chal Lamb under the Law, then the Chri&s;t Chri&s;tians be|lieve in, who was crucified at <HI>Jeru&s;alem,</HI> was not the antitype; and &s;o the true Chri&s;t is denied by you. Well, but go on.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Nothing which was mortal was called Chri&s;t, <HI>J. W. Quakers Refuge, p</HI> 38. For thy word vi&s;ible, he is not, nor never was vi&s;ible to thee, nor thy generation; for tho&s;e that did profe&s;s the Scriptures, as thou and thy generation doth, cruci|fied him, <HI>Edw. Burrough's works, p.</HI> 34.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="25" REF="13">
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>J. Whitehead</HI> &s;aith, nothing that was mortal was called <HI>Chri&s;t:</HI> and <HI>E. B.</HI> &s;aith, the Querie&s;t and his generation crucified him; how could they crucifie him that was immortal? except you mean metaphorically, as <HI>W. Pen</HI> &s;aith: if &s;o, then <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> was not crucified in a proper, but metaphorical &s;en&s;e! But &s;ince you deny him to be outward in any &s;en&s;e, tell me what he is.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Chri&s;t is God, <HI>Chri&s;tian Quaker, p.</HI> 97. He is the Seed, <HI>ibid.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>What is God?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>The Light within, <HI>G. Fox</HI> the younger.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Since we are upon this Point, I &s;hall make a little digre&s;&s;ion from the matter in hand: <HI>T. H.</HI> having brought the Quaker in; &s;aying, the Light within was God; he asks, did the Light within create all things? makes you an&s;wer, yea: &s;ee this confirmed, <HI>G Fox, Gr. My&s;t. p.</HI> 185. the light which every man that cometh into the worid is enlightned withal, is <HI>Chri&s;t;</HI> by whom the world was made. Again, he asks, is the Light within the object of divine wor&s;hip?
<PB N="26" REF="14">
He makes you an&s;wer, yea: that this is true, &s;ee a Pamphlet entituled, <HI>Dam|nable Here&s;ie di&s;covered:</HI> where the Au|thor &s;ays, 'tis damnable here&s;ie to deny to wor&s;hip the mea&s;ure of light in eve|ry man: thus you &s;ee the Light within is God, is the Creator of all things, is the obj<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">ct of divine wor&s;hip, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> The&s;e are therefore no forgeries, but real truths. Well, but you &s;ay <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> is the &s;eed, where is this &s;eed?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>It is inward and &s;pi<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">itual, <HI>Chri|&s;tia<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> Quaker. p</HI> 97.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>I<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> it not all one to &s;ay <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> is God, is the Seed, is the Light within: if &s;o, c<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">n the Light within be crucifie?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu</SPEAKER>
<P>Ye have <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">ondemn'd and ki<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters">'d the <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">u&s;t, <HI>James</HI> 5 5 6. that is, <HI>Chri&s;t Je|&s;us</HI> in their heart, him they crucified, <HI>G. Keith Immediate <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters">velation, p</HI> 77.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Was the Light within, or <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> in the hearts, cruc<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">fi<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">d under <HI>Pontius Pilate?</HI> certainly your c<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">n&s;e&s;&s;ions to <HI>Chri&s;t's</HI> &s;ufferings, are but meer Equivo|cations. But go on.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>If there be any other <HI>Chri&s;t</HI> but he that was crucified within, he is the
<PB N="27" REF="14">
fal&s;e Chri&s;t; and he that hath not this Chri&s;t that was ri&s;en, and cr<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">cified within, is a reprobate: though devils and reprobates may ta<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">k of him with|out, <HI>G&punc; Fox, Gr. My<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">t p.</HI> 206.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>But &s;ince you have denied <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">hri&s;t to be vi&s;ible, and conc<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">uded, tha<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> if there be any Chri&s;t but he that was c<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">u<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters">fi<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">d within, he is the fal&s;e Chri&s;t <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 word"> what do you think of tho&s;e Min<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;ters that Preach Chri&s;t without?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>They that are fal&s;e Preach Chri&s;t without, and bid people be ieve in him, as he is in Heaven above: but they that are true, Preach Chri&s;t within, <HI>Smith's Primmer, p.</HI> 8.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>This is a great difference in their Doctrine; for one to Preach without, and another to Preach Chri&s;t within.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea, it doth m ke as great a difference, and hath no more fellow&s;hip together than the Ea&s;t hath with the We&s;t, <HI>ibid. p.</HI> 9.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>And is this an infallible tryal of them?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea, it will not deceive thee, but will certainly give thee under&s;tanding, <HI>ibid.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="28" REF="15">
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Thus you are in the Quakers e&s;teem; (you, Epi&s;copal, Presbyterian, Independant, and Bapti&s;t,) fal&s;e Preach|ers; and that which infallibly proves you &s;o, is your Preaching Chri&s;t with|out, and bidding people look to him in Heaven above! But <HI>W. Pen,</HI> if this be fal&s;e Doctrine, to Preach as thou &s;aye&s;t, what do&s;t thou mean, when thou &s;aye&s;t Chri&s;t a&s;cended into Heaven, and &s;its at God's right hand?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>He is at the right hand of God, but I cannot believe he hath a per&s;onal being at the right hand of God without all men, <HI>G. Whitehead, Chri&s;t a&s;cended, p.</HI> 18. Chi&s;t in per&s;on remote in a body of fle&s;h, and not in men, is not Scrip|ture, but added, <HI>ibid. p.</HI> 69.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Is Chri&s;t no otherwi&s;e at God's right hand, than as he is in you?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>'Tis a fal&s;e and lying imagina|tion, to imagine either Chri&s;t or God, and his right hand, to be &s;o remote, as not to dwell in any man, <HI>G.W. ibid. p.</HI> 69. I deny that Chri&s;t hath now a body of fle&s;h and bones, circum&s;crib'd (or limi|ted) in that Heaven which is above,
<PB N="29" REF="15">
and out of every man on earth, <HI>J. Whitehead Quakers Refuge, p.</HI> 40.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Certainly you do but equivocate in all you &s;ay of Chri&s;t: hence 'tis plain that all you own concerning Chri&s;t, Heaven, and God's right hand, is no more then what is in you; but &s;ince you deny he hath a body of fle&s;h and bones, now in heaven, and out of e|very man on earth, do you believe he hath any body now.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea, the Church is his body, <HI>Edw. Borough's Works. p.</HI> 150.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Hath Chri&s;t no other body but his Church?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>To &s;ay Chri&s;t hath two bodies, one out of &s;ight of the Saints; there is &s;o much wickedne&s;s and ignorange in the broachers of &s;uch a particular, that it needs no an&s;wer, <HI>Burrough's, ibid. p.</HI> 151, 152. And now before he had accu&s;ed any for &s;aying Chri&s;t hath but one body, he &s;hould have produced plain Scripture, that &s;aith he has two, or is the head of two bodies, a natural and a &s;piritu|al, <HI>G. W. Apol. p.</HI> 33.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>You &s;ay the Church is Chri&s;t's body, I &s;uppo&s;e you under&s;tand that to be his &s;pi|ritual body; and then you deny he hath two bodies: hence 'tis plain you believe he hath no other body but his Church. But do you believe he &s;hall &s;o come, in like manner as he was &s;een go into heaven.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="30" REF="16">
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>I deny he &s;hall come vi&s;ibly, and tho' it be &s;aid in like manner, yet every like is not the &s;ame, <HI>G. Whitehead, Chri&s;t a&s;cended. p.</HI> 22.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Is not this a plain denial of Chri&s;t's &s;econd per&s;onal coming?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>They are like to be deceived, who are expecting Chri&s;t's &s;econd coming will be a Per&s;onal coming, which word per&s;on you add to the Scriptures; not minding the penalty, <HI>Revel.</HI> 22. <HI>G. W. ibid. p.</HI> 23.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>'Tis almo&s;t time to conclude, but be|fore we part, let me tell thee that from what hath been &s;aid: I do gather, 1&s;t. That you a&s;&s;ert that Chri&s;t was before he took that body, and that the taking that body did con|&s;titute him Chri&s;t; nay, that it was no part of Chri&s;t. 2. That Chri&s;t was never vi&s;ible, nor &s;een with carnal eyes. 3. That Chri&s;t is God, and God is the Light within; and that this Light in it &s;elf is the Chri&s;t of God; and that this Light was all the Chri&s;t that was crucified, which was crucified only with|in. 4. That Chri&s;t, Heaven, and God's right hand, is only within. 5. That Chri&s;t's &s;econd coming will neither be vi&s;ible nor per|&s;onal; con&s;equently, that he is come, as much as he will come. I think by this time I may &s;afely conclude, that both the holy Scriptures, and the true Chri&s;t, is really denied by you, notwith&s;tanding your equivocations, and therefore Quakeri&s;m is the Mi&s;tery of iniqui|ty;
<PB N="31" REF="16">
or in it &s;elf but a meer my&s;tical Ro|mance.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>Strainings, Perver&s;ions and fal&s;e In|ferences, being the frequent practice of our Adver&s;aries; at which rate the Scriptures may be made to prove there is no God: if the&s;e words, the fool hath &s;aid in his heart, be left out of the Text, <HI>The Quaker a Chri&s;ti|an. p.</HI> 3</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>If thou thinke&s;t fit I am willing to put it upon tryal; In the mean time I do affirm I have done ye no wrong, neither by curtail|ing, &s;training, or mi&s;applying of your prin|ciples. I have taken many things immedi|ately from your own Books: Some things in|deed I have taken from <HI>Tho. Hick's Dialogues,</HI> I hope that's no offence to thee.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>Tho. Hicks</HI> is guilty of vile forgeries, <HI>Counterfeit Chri&s;tian Title page.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>I know you accu&s;e <HI>Tho. Hicks</HI> of many things, which I know he is not guilty of: but do&s;t thou indeed believe his quotations, in his Dialogues are forgeries.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Qu.</SPEAKER>
<P>I never thought &s;o, much le&s;s writ &s;o, nor was that the que&s;tion, taking quotations for places cited, as to book and page; and if generally accepted by him, <HI>Countefeit Chri|an, p.</HI> 17.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Chr.</SPEAKER>
<P>Herein then do&s;t thou ju&s;tify both him and me from forgeries in this matter; however I have &s;een the mo&s;t part of what I
<PB N="32" REF="17" MS="y">
have here written, in your own Books. I &s;hall now take my leave of thee, (de&s;iring thou maye&s;t turn from Quakeri&s;m to Chri+&s;tianity) I &s;hall addre&s;s my &s;elf to the Rea+der, whom I would heartily de&s;ire he would &s;eriou&s;ly con&s;ider what is here written; I de+&s;ign it for thy good: and now Reader, con+&s;ider, the true Chri&s;t is really denied by th<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> Quakers; and if &s;o, they are no Chri&s;tians and &s;o I hope thou wilt carefully avoid them and then, (as I have &s;aid before) all other do+ctrines fall to the ground. I might min<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> many more of their gro&s;s errors which as yet I have no<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> done; I &s;hall mind but one, and that is the Re&s;urrectio<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> of the Dead, which tho' they pretend to own in &s;om<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> &s;en&s;e, I &s;ay they own it in no true &s;en&s;e. I recommen<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> all to the ble&s;&s;ing of God, and re&s;t thy Friend,</P>
</SP>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>JOHN PLIMPTON.</SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
</BODY>
<BACK>
<DIV1 TYPE="publisher's advertisement">
<HEAD>POSTSCRIPT.</HEAD>
<P><HI>W. Pen</HI> tells you in his la&s;t Pamphlet, Intituled, <HI>Truth furth<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters"> cleared, p. 44, 45. Principle</HI> 15th. that frou our denying t<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters"> re&s;urrection of the &s;ame natural and corruptible body, we are made deny the Re&s;urrection of any Body; however &s;piritual and glorifi<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters"> and even of eternal Reward too. Now if the Body ri&s;e not, and t<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters"> &s;oul be part of God; ahen con&s;equently all eternal Rewards are de<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters">+ed, the fir&s;t is denyed by <HI>W. Pen.</HI> The <HI>2d</HI> is a&s;&s;erted by <HI>G. Fox,</HI> th<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> King and Prophet, <HI>Great My&s;tery p. 29. 68. 90. 100.</HI> in which pl<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">+ces 'tis plain from his words, that the &s;oul being a &s;piritual &s;ub&s;tanc<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> is part of God, and God's Being, without beginning, and infinit<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> con&s;equently Angels and Devils are Gods, being &s;piritual &s;ub&s;tanc<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> or part of God's Being. Such horrid Bla&s;phemy is <HI>G. Fox</HI> and <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 word"> Quakers Guilty of.</P>
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<P>&rindx;If any de&s;ire to have any of the&s;e Books, let the<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> come to my Lodging at Mrs. <HI>Bruntons</HI> in <HI>Great T<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters">+mas-Court,</HI> where they may be &s;upplied.</P>
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<TRAILER>FINIS.</TRAILER>
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