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<DATE>2013-10-10</DATE>
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<NAME>Mona Logarbo</NAME>
<RESP>MURP</RESP>
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<ITEM>Proofed and reviewed as part of batch B130810.pdcc.</ITEM>
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<IDG S="marc" R="UM" ID="B02380">
<STC T="W">C6085A</STC>
<STC T="C">R176596</STC>
<BIBNO T="oclc">52211997</BIBNO>
<VID>175606</VID>
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<TEXT LANG="eng">
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="petition to Parliament">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<HEAD>To the Honourable Hou&s;e of Commons in PARLIAMENT a&s;&s;embled. The humble Petition of Commi&s;ary <HI>Lyonell Copley.</HI></HEAD>
<OPENER>SHEWETH;</OPENER>
<P>_THat whereas upon a certificate from the Court of Accompts this honourable Hou&s;e was plea&s;ed to Order Your Petitioner forthwith to pay the &s;um therein expre&s;&s;ed, which notwithstanding his willingne&s;&s;e for their &s;atisfaction (if his life lay upon it) h<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">e cannot po&s;sible in readie mony doe, mo&s;t of his per&s;onall e&s;tate now lying in the hands of the State in his Arreares and other|wi&s;e, Now fora&s;much as the &s;aid Committee, not having in&s;tructions (as he <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="3 letters">ce<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="4 letters">) what to allow <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 word"> di&s;allow in Ac|compts of this nature (he being the first of this kinde they have pa&s;&s;ed Ac|compts with) have thought fit to charge upon him all the Hor&s;es, Armes, and furniture of Warre hee hath receaved from the State, for the rai&s;ing and re|cruting of his Troope of Hor&s;e (no<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> in their &s;ervice in his Excellencies Ar|mie) to the <HI>xxi.</HI> of <HI>M<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">rch 1643.</HI> and have valued them at <HI>2033. 16:0:</HI> as if hee had bought them of the State, though there was no Ordi|nance Order of Parliament, or contract of his binding him to make them good, hee n<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">t having any u&s;e thereof but for their &s;ervice, which he is readie to re&s;igne and deliver up into what hands this Honourable Hou&s;e &s;hall thinke fit.</P>
<P>Hee therefore humbly prayes this Honourable Hou&s;e, he may with thei<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> con&s;ent and fa<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters">r deliver up his &s;aid Troope of Hor&s;e, with the Armes and other furniture for Warre, as they are valued to him by the &s;aid Committee, and the &s;ame bee accepted as payment which will &s;urmount the &s;aid &s;umme
<PB N="2" REF="2" MS="y"> expre&s;&s;ed upon the &s;aid certificate, be&s;eeching this Honourable Hou&s;e he may then be received into their favour, and admitted (in what way they in their wi&s;domes &s;hall thinke most equall to a review of his &s;aid accompts and his ju&s;t exceptions received to the &s;aid certificate being well a&s;&s;ured hee &s;hall clearely make appeare there is a very great &s;umme really due unto him.</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>And your Petitioner &s;hall ever humbly pray <HI>Lyonell. Copley.</HI></SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="disposition of petition">
<OPENER><DATELINE><DATE>Die Sabbathi 19. Octo. 1644.</DATE></DATELINE></OPENER>
<P>_THe humble Petition of Commi&s;&s;ary <HI>Copley</HI> was this day read in the Hou&s;e of Commons, and Orde|red, that it bee referred to the <HI>Com|mittee</HI> formerly appointed for <HI>Commi&s;&s;ary Cop|lies</HI> bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, to &s;tate the de&s;ires of the Petiti|on, and to report their opinions to the Hou&s;e.</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>H. El&s;yng Cler: Parl: D. Com.</SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="petitioner's response to Committee">
<PB N="3" REF="2" MS="y">
<HEAD>Commi&s;arie <HI>Copley,</HI> his rea&s;ons given into the Committee of the Li&s;t for his Excellencies Army, why the Committee of Accompts ought not to have charged him with the hor&s;es and Armes he received for the rai&s;ing and Recrute of his Troope at a value as his debt, yet if charged ought to be allow|ed at the &s;ame values by way of di&s;count if not found to be by him imbe&s;led or converted to his owne u&s;e, and that tho&s;e yet in his Troope or lo&s;t upon &s;<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">rvice &s;ince his accompt, ought to be accepted of as good payment, for &s;o much as they are vallued to him according to the de&s;ires of his Petition lately pre&s;ented to the honourable hou&s;e of Commons in this behalfe, as al&s;o for a revenue of his Accompts.</HEAD>
<P>AT the fir&s;t e&s;tabli&s;hment of the Army that was not &s;ettled or de|clared that the Capt. &s;hould make good the Hor&s;es and Armes he received from the State for him&s;elfe, Troope or Company, not was there any Covenant twixt the State and him to that purpo&s;e, nor is there any Ordinance or order of both or either of the Hou|&s;es of Parliament, binding him thereto, till the Ordinance of the 26. of <HI>March</HI> 1644. which was &s;ince the accompt and lookes only for|ward as by the &s;ame herewith &s;hewed doth appeare.</P>
<P N="2">2. He conceives that beyond all Example and pre&s;ident, and contrary to the Rules of Warre and common Iu&s;tice, that he &s;hould be charged to the value of 2000. pounds and upwards for his &s;aid hor&s;e and Armes, a yeare or two after his entertaynment into and progre&s;&s;e in the &s;ervice of the Parliament, the e being no condition of his part, or &s;o much as any propo&s;all on theirs, whereby he could imagine that would be expected at his hands.</P>
<P N="3">3. Wee ray&s;ed and had before the battle of <HI>Newbury,</HI> eighty &s;ix hor&s;es for his Troope, as by his accompts given into the &s;aid Com|mittee upon his Oath herewith &s;hewed doth appeare, All which were not worth above five pound a hor&s;e one with another, no value being &s;et upon them nor Ticket given for them to any per&s;on by a|ny
<PB N="4" REF="3" MS="y"> per&s;on by any Committee or per&s;on what&s;oever, whereby the State can be charged with one peny for them, neither could they, (had he not charged him&s;elfe) have charged him upon any account therewith.</P>
<P N="4">4. The Committee of Accompts (without any ju&s;t ground as he conceives) thought fit upon an Accompt of their owne making up to charge him withall the &s;aid hor&s;es at ten pound per hor&s;e, which he conceives they could not properly nor rightly doe for that they are unacquainted in that way, and not imployed for that end, but principally for that they never &s;aw any of them, it being divers Monthes after the &s;aid hor&s;es were killed, lo&s;t or made away before they were a Committee.</P>
<P N="5">5. All the &s;aid hor&s;es were before or at the battle of <HI>Newbury</HI> ei|ther dead killed, or lo&s;t, upon &s;ervice by hard duty one way or other, except eight at mo&s;t he having lo&s;t above fortie in the battle as he hath proved before this honourable Committee, two only of them being converted to his owne u&s;e which he made good to the State as by the &s;aid Accompt herewith &s;hewed doth appeare.</P>
<P N="6">6. He received for the Recrewt of his &s;aid Troope &s;ince <HI>Newbury</HI> battle in hor&s;es and mony to buy hor&s;es with, at ten pound a hor&s;e, eighty &s;ix more with which as with the former to a hoofe he char|ged him&s;elfe upon his &s;aid Accompt expre&s;&s;ing upon his oath each mans name who had them being of his Troope fortie two, where|of he received &s;ince the &s;aid Ordinance which are not charged upon him by the &s;aid accompt made up by the &s;aid Committee to the 21. of <HI>March,</HI> 1643, nor did he know that they had charged him with his &s;aid hor&s;es and Armes at a prize as his debt, nor how they had made up the &s;aid accompt till payment of what was certified by the &s;aid Committee to be due from him, was ordered by the honour|able Hou&s;e of Commons.</P>
<P>The &s;aid hor&s;es received for his recrewt and tho&s;e eight brought from <HI>Newbury</HI> battle unle&s;&s;e &s;ome few which &s;hortly dyed or was utterly un&s;erviceable were mu&s;tred in his &s;aid Troope the 20th. of <HI>May</HI> 1644. which then con&s;i&s;ted of eighty foure &s;tate hor&s;es, fortie two whereof are part of tho&s;e charged upon him by the &s;aid <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="2 letters">co<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">n<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">
<PB N="5" REF="3" MS="y"> at 10^<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> <HI>per</HI> hor&s;e as by the Mu&s;ter <HI>Roll</HI> at te&s;ted by Sir <HI>Edward Dod&s;worth</HI> herewith &s;hewed doth appeare, which &s;aid Troope of hor&s;e now is and ever &s;ince hath beene upon &s;ervice in his Excellencies Army, and are the very &s;ame ho<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;es he is charged with as afore&s;aid, and are tho&s;e only which co&s;t or can co&s;t the State any peny, twenty three whereof were not wo<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">th above &s;ix pound <HI>per</HI> hor&s;e, one with another, none of all which were ever &s;eene by the &s;aid Committee nor ought as he conceives to be charged upon him however &s;o o|therwi&s;e then the ordinance provides for.</P>
<P>The &s;aid hor&s;es r<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter">ceived as afore&s;aid he never had occa&s;ion for, nor hath u&s;e of, but for the &s;ervice of the &s;tate, except for two of them which he made u&s;e of to his owne particular, with which he charged him&s;elfe upon his &s;aid accompt upon the &s;ame prizes they co&s;t the State.</P>
<P>All the Armes, Pi&s;tolls, Saddles and their furniture what&s;oe|ver which he hath received both before and &s;ince the Accompt and Ordinance to this day, unle&s;&s;e twelve Saddles and &s;ix Backes, Bre&s;ts and Pots are to abridle charged upon him at &s;everall prizes, by the &s;aid Accompt, and one hundred pound part of the price of the &s;aid Saddles al&s;o part whereof were lo&s;t upon &s;ervice and other|wayes as the hor&s;es were before and at the battle of <HI>Newbury,</HI> three Pi&s;tolls and few or no Armes being brought of that day, And the re&s;idue received &s;ince the battle of <HI>Newbury</HI> they were delive|red to his Officers and Troops mu&s;tred the 20th. of <HI>May</HI> afore&s;aid who were armed and have &s;erved therewith in his Excellencies Army ever &s;ince, none of which as he conceives ought to be char|ged upon him however no otherwi&s;e then is provided by the Or|dinance.</P>
<P>The &s;aid Hor&s;es and Arms which he received as afore&s;aid though hee had beene bound to make them good, and they neither lo&s;t kil|led, or made away, the &s;tate could not expect he &s;hould pay &s;o much mony for them as the &s;aid Committee valued them at, notwith&s;tan|ding at the time when hee did receive them they had bin really worth &s;o much; becau&s;e &s;o many thereof as hee &s;hall deliver in againe in their kinde though lame, &s;poyled, or broake, or give accompt for be|ing
<PB N="6" REF="4" MS="y"> lo&s;t in &s;uch a way as the Ordinance provides allowance, for the State is bound to accept of as made good in their owne &s;en&s;e.</P>
<P>Hee conceaves that &s;uch Hor&s;es and Armes received by him as afore&s;aid as are made wor&s;e in and by the &s;ervice halfe in halfe more or le&s;&s;e, and after that by accident dye, are lo&s;t, or made away in &s;uch manner as the &s;aid Ordinance provides not allowance for, he ought not to make good &s;o much mony for them as at his fir&s;t receipt ther|of they were valued at, or were truly worth, the &s;tate having had their &s;ervice by which they doe become of little or no value.</P>
<P>Hee conceaves that the Parliament when they made that Ordi|nance binding every Captain to make good his Hor&s;es and Armes, intended and concluded to pay the Captaine and his Troope or company con&s;tantly, which ought in the fir&s;t place to be performed before the other can bee expected, becau&s;e by rea&s;on of their want of pay they cannot provide for and maintaine their Hor&s;es if they fall &s;icke, or lame, whereby they are di&s;abled to keepe them alive and &s;erviceable (and the like for the repaire of their Armyes and &s;addles which unavoidably occa&s;ioneth the lo&s;&s;e of many Hor&s;es and Arms, which not being by his or his Souldiers default he, ought not as hee conceaves to be charged with them or pay for them.</P>
<P>If it be alleadged that the Captaine is to receive the Souldiers Arreares thereby to make good to him&s;elfe the value of the Hor&s;es and Armes lo&s;t by the Souldier, and therefore ought to make them good to the State, hee an&s;wereth, that he conceaves that cour&s;e to bee very unequall and will bee of ill con&s;equence to the State, for there are very many Souldiers who&s;e Hor&s;es, or Armes or both, doe dye, or are lamed, or otherwi&s;e &s;poyled that &s;tay not a month in the Troope, yet may bee le&s;&s;e, few &s;o long as their Arreares will make good the value of them, and tho&s;e that doe, yet would bee ill taken they &s;hould pay for their Hor&s;e and Armes which are worne out an<GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 letter"> &s;pent in the States &s;ervice, And &s;o by con&s;equence he conceaves <GAP DESC="illegible" EXTENT="1 word"> will nece&s;&s;arily follow either the Captaine, or his Souldiers or both, mu&s;t be di&s;couraged and forced to de&s;ert the imployment, or in the conclu&s;ion be certainly undone.</P>
<P>Hee conceaveth that the Oath obliging the Committee of Ac|compts
<PB N="7" REF="4" MS="y"> to deale faithfully in taking of accompts of the Kingdome relates only to the State, not to the Accomptant neither have they as yet any bounds &s;et or rules given them for taking accompts of this kinde, his being the fir&s;t of this nature, and the way to &s;tate the re&s;t, therefore a reveiw of his &s;aid accompts according to &s;uch rules as may be given them, is (the foregoing rea&s;ons con&s;idered) mo&s;t ju&s;t and nece&s;&s;ary all the &s;ouldiery under the Parliaments &s;ervice be|ing a like concerned herein.</P>
<P>Hee hath diver&s;e other rea&s;ons to offer to this Honourable Com|mittee for their further &s;atisfaction, if it &s;hall bee nece&s;&s;ary, but for that they have not as yet thought fit to let him &s;ee or be acquainted with the rea&s;ons they have (as yet alleadged) receaved from the &s;aid Committee of Accompts for his being charged with his Hor&s;e, and Armes as is already &s;et forth, and why tho&s;e in his Troope &s;o char|ged ought not to be accepted at the &s;ame values they are charged, as good payment, he (knowing they cannot be &s;o powerfull for his de|fence) forbeareth to give any further rea&s;ons till they &s;hall plea&s;e to &s;how him what is alleadged again&s;t him, which as yet is his undoub|ted right, &s;o he hopes before they report their &s;en&s;e of this bu&s;ines they will afford him, with convenient time for his an&s;wers thereto, that &s;o the true &s;tate thereof may fully appeare to the Honourable Hou&s;e of Commons, to who&s;e judgement thereupon he &s;hall freely &s;ubmit him&s;elfe.</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>Lyonell Copley.</SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
<TRAILER>FJNIS</TRAILER>
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