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<DATE>2009-09-02</DATE>
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<NAME>Mona Logarbo</NAME>
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<DIV1 TYPE="modern library bookplate">
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<P><HI>Columbia Vniversity in the City of New York</HI> LIBRARY</P>
<P><FIGURE>
<FIGDESC>seal of Columbia University</FIGDESC>
<HEAD>&yhwh; SIGILLVM &middot; COLLEGII &middot; COLVMBIAE &middot;  &middot; EBORACI</HEAD>
<Q><P>In LVMINE TVO VIDEBIMVS LVMEN</P> <BIBL>1 PET 11 12 &amp;c.</BIBL></Q>
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<P>THE SELIGMAN LIBRARY OF ECONOMICS PURCHASED BY THE UNIVERSITY 1929</P>
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<DIV1 TYPE="list of reasons">
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<HEAD>A mode&s;t Vindication of the Ca&s;e of <HI>John Giffard</HI> Gent. And an An&s;wer to the Reply of the Pre&s;er|vators of Deane Forre&s;t.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<HEAD>With certain Rea&s;ons why tho&s;e Iron Works &s;hould not be demoli&s;hed untill his &s;tock be wrought out.</HEAD>
<ITEM>1 _IT &s;eems not a little &s;trange to the Vindicator, That the Remon&s;trance of Parliament of Decemb. 15. 1641. &s;hould be u&s;ed as an Argument for de&s;truction of his Iron Works in the Forre&s;t of Deane, which by a &s;peciall Ordinance of Parliament of October 27. 1645. (notwith&s;tanding the &s;aid Remon&s;trance) were thought fit by the judgment of the &s;ame Parliament to be continued: and by the &s;ame Ordinance a&s;&s;igned wood for the &s;upply thereof. And though the Parliament did give order to demoli&s;h all the Iron Works in the &s;aid Forre&s;t, and yet were afterwards plea&s;ed upon ju&s;t Grounds and Rea&s;ons to continue Mr. <HI>Giffards,</HI> it ought not to &s;eeme &s;trange to any well-affected per&s;ons, e&s;pecially the Pre&s;er|vators of that Forre&s;t, what the Parliament upon &s;ub&s;e|quent debate and mature deliberation have done therein for relief of the &s;aid <HI>Giffard</HI> in pro&s;ecution of the &s;aid Ordinance.</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. To the &s;econd: And it cannot be con&s;trued le&s;&s;e then &s;uperlative boldne&s;&s;e in the Penner of that Reply, to render the Order and Re&s;ult of Parliament as an act of <HI>very great injustice,</HI> that other Works that were built up|on
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the inheritance of private Gentlemen in the Forre&s;t were pulled down, though not one of the Owners of the &s;aid Works held theirs, or had wood a&s;&s;igned them by &s;peciall Ordinance of Parliament, or did petition for re|lief, although they were not ignorant the &s;aid Vote did concern all other the Iron Works in the &s;aid Forre&s;t, as well as the &s;aid Mr. <HI>Giffards.</HI> Be&s;ides the Pre&s;ervators wel know that other Works are continued in the Forre&s;t which have &s;pent the Forre&s;t wood, and that one of the &s;aid Pre&s;ervators hath lately begun to build a Furnace within that Forre&s;t, which cannot long be kept going without making u&s;e of the Forre&s;t wood. And who&s;oever will without prejudice view the printed Ca&s;e of the &s;aid <HI>Giffard,</HI> and the Parliaments Order of Reference to the honourable Committee of Revenue thereupon, and their Report to the Hou&s;e, will find &s;ufficient Rea&s;ons given for continuance of tho&s;e Works till his &s;tock be wrought out, and not grounded upon bare pretences and allegati|ons, as by the Pre&s;ervators is &s;ugge&s;ted.</ITEM>
<ITEM>3. And why a de&s;igne of their progenitors driven on for fifty yeares and upwards, whom they magnifie to have been men of publike &s;pirits, &s;hould now <HI>(for private inte|re&s;t)</HI> be drawn into example to the utter ruine of a par|ticular per&s;on, that hath had no wood in the &s;aid Forre&s;t but what he hath ju&s;tly paid for, nor hath any power or potency for his protection but the mercy and ju&s;tice of Parliament, again&s;t &s;uch powerful &amp; prevalent Adver&s;aries. And why the ju&s;t and pious intentions of the Parliament to relieve a di&s;tre&s;&s;ed per&s;on, &s;hould be prejudicated or in|terpreted <HI>a da&s;hing of the hopes of thou&s;ands pretended to be greater &s;ufferers for the Parliament then</HI> Mr. Giffard, he under&s;tands not the rea&s;on of that a&s;&s;ertion. Neither in|deed can it be made appeare, that any one of tho&s;e thou|&s;ands (which in truth are but few hundreds) have in any mea&s;ure proportionably been &s;o great &s;ufferers as the Vin|dicator. And there was never heretofore any pre&s;ident of pulling down Iron VVorks before the &s;tock was wrought out, nor any Petition preferred to that end, till of late
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mo&s;t injuriou&s;ly again&s;t Mr. <HI>Giffard,</HI> whereby it plainly appears there is a &s;lie de&s;igne and &s;elf-intere&s;t driven on by the Petitioners, beyond the pre&s;ervation of wood and timber, which was the chief pretence.</ITEM>
<ITEM>4. And is it not a high pre&s;umption in the Penners of that Reply, to a&s;&s;ert that what the Parliament hath done or &s;hall do in altering their re&s;olutions, is in a charitable gratification to the in&s;inuations of a private man, thereby adjudging and cen&s;uring the pa&s;t and future tran&s;actions of Parliament upon bare and &s;pecious pretences, though in truth founded upon the grounds of ju&s;tice, equity and rea&s;on, an unparallell'd boldne&s;&s;e without pre&s;ident or example: And though the Parliament hath been plea&s;ed to refer the Petition of the &s;aid <HI>Giffard</HI> to a Committee of theirs, to con&s;ider how the woods of the Forre&s;t may be pre&s;erved from con&s;umption by rea&s;on of his Iron-works, and how the Petitioner may have relief, and report their O|pinions to that honourable Hou&s;e; yet in oppo&s;ition to the &s;aid Order of Parliament, they in&s;inuate that the &s;aid <HI>Giffards</HI> ju&s;t reque&s;ts are pretentions rather then reall truths, thereby indeavouring to ob&s;truct the Report, and hinder reliefe to the Petitioner, till the &s;aid bu&s;ine&s;&s;e be examined, though they very well know that if that Report be not made before the 25. of this in&s;tant March, all his works will be pulled down to the ground, &amp; he thereby totally ruined before he can be heard; and re&s;t not there, but &s;tate an ab&s;tru&s;e que&s;tion, whether it be charitable or honorable to gratifie the de&s;ires of one man, to the apparent lo&s;&s;e of the State, and di&s;advantage of &s;o well de&s;erving a people. But wherein this apparent lo&s;&s;e to the State, or di&s;advantage to the people lies, they neither do nor can &s;et forth. For, &s;ufficient &s;ecurity being given that no wood or timber in that Forre&s;t &s;hall be cut or dimini&s;hed by Mr. <HI>Gif|fard</HI> his Servants or Workmen for his u&s;e upon any pretence what&s;o|ever, during the time to be granted him for working out his &s;tock, which is the Order and Report of the &s;aid honourable Committee of the Revenue, and their opinion that he may have a yeares time from Lady day next allowed for that purpo&s;e. It is impo&s;&s;ible there can be any lo&s;&s;e to the State, or di&s;advantage to the people; and therefore ad|mires the Penman does not blu&s;h to &s;ugge&s;t &s;o great a fallacy, Where|as the continuing of tho&s;e Works till the &s;tock (already bought) be wrought out, will be of very great advantage to this Commonwealth, in keeping down the price of iron, which (&s;ince the late demoli&s;hing of &s;ome Works in that Forre&s;t) is much advanced, and will be rai&s;ed higher, if tho&s;e Works &s;hould be &s;uddenly demoli&s;hed.</ITEM>
<ITEM>5. The fifth is fully an&s;wered in the &s;econd Article.</ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="list of responses">
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<LIST>
<HEAD>An&s;wer to the Objections again&s;t the &s;everall Rea&s;ons in the Ca&s;e of Mr. <HI>Giffard,</HI> for obtaining time to work out his Stock.</HEAD>
<ITEM>1. FIr&s;t it is alledged, that the greater part of the wood he hath coal'd was timber, but doth not nominate any place where the &s;aid timber was coal'd, or of whom it was bought: if the Author and penner of it would have it &s;uppo&s;ed to be timber of the Forre&s;t of Dean, that is both improbable and untrue, notwith&s;tanding his pretence of proof by the Commi&s;&s;i|on; for the Surveyor and four Pre&s;ervators of the For|re&s;t formerly appointed and authori&s;ed by the Honoura|ble Committee of the Revenue to &s;et out the Fellet, and deliver the wood which was by them &s;old to Mr. <HI>Giffard,</HI> (which &s;aid Officers in the places where they live are e|&s;teemed by their Neighbours to be men of &s;ufficiency and integrity) did fir&s;t bound out the Fellet, and afterwards taking the advice of a Ship-Carpenter, and of a Hou&s;e-Carpenter, did mark all the be&s;t timber trees to &s;tand, lea|ving the re&s;idue to be cut down by his workmen for the u&s;e of the Iron VVorks; and &s;ome of the &s;aid Pre&s;erva|tors were daily in the &s;aid Fellet, where if they found any tree or con&s;iderable piece of a tree after cutting down that proved to be timber, they marked the &s;ame, and cau|&s;ed it to be &s;quar'd and pre&s;erv'd for that purpo&s;e, divers of which are yet to be &s;een in the Forre&s;t within the &s;aid Fellet; by which it appears all due care was taken for pre|&s;ervation of the timber: and the &s;aid Officers and an un|der VVoodward did as there was occa&s;ion, deliver the
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Cordwood by mea&s;ure to Mr. <HI>Giffard</HI> or his &s;ervants, kee|ping a ju&s;t account of the &s;ame: what hath been by him, or to his u&s;e received is duely paid for. He pre&s;umes for the Rea&s;ons herein expre&s;&s;ed, none will believe that he made &s;uch con&s;umption of timber as is &s;ugge&s;ted, and hopes that it is not to be imputed to him as a Crime, to have made u&s;e of &s;uch wood as he bought and paid for to tho&s;e that had good authority to &s;ell the &s;ame; he de&s;ires no future dealing, onely craves leave to work out his &s;tock already bought, and no more.</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. To the &s;econd, Mr. <HI>Giffard</HI> doth affirm that he hath &s;uch a &s;tock of Coal made of the Forre&s;t wood, as in his Ca&s;e was truly alledged, neither can the contrary be made appear, whatever the Author or Penner pretends, thereby unju&s;tly and maliciou&s;ly a&s;per&s;ing the &s;aid Mr. <HI>Giffard,</HI> who though indeed he begs of the Parliament, did never make any brags of his Policy in the Countrey, nor hath made a|ny Contracts at all for Coal or VVood &s;ince the fir&s;t of January la&s;t, but to the contrary, gave &s;peciall command to his &s;ervants to buy none at all, and believes they have ob&s;erved his command, becau&s;e he knows of nothing to the contrary.</ITEM>
<ITEM>3. To the third, he cannot believe his &s;tock of 5000. l. and upward will be worth any thing, if all the Iron Works in the &s;aid Forre&s;t be pul'd down, for the Charcoals will be broken in pieces in removing and carriage of them to any other Iron VVork, &s;o that they will not be worth the charge, and for other part of the &s;tock it will be of as lit|tle value, the charge of carrying it &s;o great a di&s;tance con|&s;idered: and for his twofold an&s;wer that Mr. <HI>Giffard</HI> hath no &s;uch &s;tock of the State, by his leave that is not true, for the Coal made of the VVood he bought of the State is a great part of it, and they can &s;uffer no lo&s;&s;e by giving him leave to work out all his &s;tock with his works which he built and repaired at his own charge, and paid two thou&s;and pounds for u&s;e of them, for five years, of which above two years and a quarter is yet to come, and unex|pired, but craves only that by the Ju&s;tice and favour of the
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Hou&s;e he may have but one years time, and cannot doubt but that the Parliament for the Rea&s;ons before alledged will think his reque&s;t ju&s;t and rea&s;onable, and that he ought to have the working out his own &s;tock rather then any other man. And whereas it is by &s;ome in&s;inuated, that there be Undertakers that will buy his &s;tock and make him a gainer, tho&s;e are but meer delu&s;ions to &s;pin out the time&punc; till his works by the violence of his enemies be pluckt down, whereby he may be &s;ilently undone, and left with|out remedy, but hopes the Parliament will never &s;uffer &s;o great an injury to be done to him that hath &s;erved them faithfully with his life and fortune, and is ready and wil|ling to do the like again, if they &s;hall have occa&s;ion.</ITEM>
<ITEM>4. Mr. <HI>Giffard</HI> doth not de&s;ire the continuance of the I|ron VVorks longer then to work out his &s;tock, which un|der favour he hopes will be thought a very ju&s;t and rea&s;o|nable reque&s;t: he is willing the good timber of the Forre&s;t &s;hould be pre&s;erved for &s;hipping, and is re&s;olved to buy no more wood at any rate what&s;oever: he will not pre|&s;ume to be &s;o &s;aucy to put interpretations upon the Votes of Parliament, as the Author of this Article doth, and for his undertakers to &s;erve this Nation with forraign Iron, as good &amp; good cheap as now they have: fir&s;t, 'tis manife&s;t it will never be &s;o good, and &s;econdly, it is much doubted that the undertaking will not long be performed, it is heartily wi&s;hed that this Common-wealth (by &s;ad experi|ence) may not find the contrary.</ITEM>
<ITEM>5. The giving &s;ecurity will be found to be of value, for no wood or timber can be cut in the Forre&s;t for the u&s;e of Mr. <HI>Giffard</HI> without hazard of forfeiting the Bond, and in ca&s;e any &s;uch thing &s;hould be attempted, the State, may when they plea&s;e &s;eize upon twenty times the value: his allegation that goodly trees have fallen to make Coal, is not to be applied to Mr. <HI>Giffards</HI> ca&s;e, neither can there be any &s;uch thing laid to his Charge or proved again&s;t him; he cannot ju&s;tifie all the workmen that are imploy|ed about his Iron VVorks, but is a&s;&s;ured that the greate&s;t part of them have been more faithfull to the Parliament,
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<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="in gutter" EXTENT="1 letter">hen divers of tho&s;e that have put their hands to the Peti|<GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="in gutter" EXTENT="1 letter">ion for pulling down Iron VVorks.</ITEM>
<ITEM>6. And for the &s;adne&s;&s;e of M. <HI>Giffard's</HI> condition, and his friends, it is very evident to all, except &s;uch as with|out cau&s;e are, or will be po&s;&s;e&s;t with prejudice again&s;t him, it is not a bare pretence, but a reall truth, nor can it be proved by able men, that M. <HI>Giffard</HI> hath gained any &s;uch &s;ums of money as is pretended; for he hath had the works, as to his own u&s;e, not two years and three quarters, did pay 2000.l. for them, be&s;ides the building and the re|pairing, which co&s;t above 1500.l. more, and above 1100.l. debt due to the State, which he likewi&s;e &s;atisfied, was for|ced to take up great &s;ums of money to &s;tock the &s;aid Works, be&s;ides his particular debts in the Country to &s;e|verall poor men that are not able to forbear their money, and among&s;t whom he oweth very great &s;ums: the&s;e pay|ments and other deductions con&s;idered, it is not probable that any &s;uch great gain &s;hould be made in &s;o &s;hort a time; the truth is, if his works be pulled down before his &s;tock be wrought out, he will be &s;o great a lo&s;er thereby, that <GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="in gutter" EXTENT="1 letter">t will utterly ruine him, and many of his friends that are <GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="in gutter" EXTENT="1 letter">ngaged with him: that he cannot be made a &s;aver by his <GAP DESC="illegible" REASON="in gutter" EXTENT="1 letter">eall &s;tock unle&s;&s;e he hath time to work it out, is already an&s;wered: It is an ea&s;ie matter to traduce and &s;candalize a man, but a mo&s;t difficult thing to repaire a ruined e|&s;tate; they humbly and earne&s;tly de&s;ire to be heard for the good of the State, but &s;hew not wherein there is pro|bability of lo&s;&s;e, or hope of gaine to the State: The de&s;igne of M. <HI>Giffards</HI> adver&s;aries is to retard and ob&s;truct any relief from the honourable Hou&s;e untill his Works be pulled downe, and then they well know it will be too late. And why the penman of this Article &s;hould pre|&s;ume to aver, as by the &s;ame is clearly meant, that an Act of Iu&s;tice and Mercy in the State to relieve a di&s;tre&s;&s;ed Petitioner, &s;hould be either a damage or di&s;honour unto them, without better rea&s;ons &s;hewed for it, is a Paradox that wi&s;er men then him&s;elfe under&s;tand not.</ITEM>
<ITEM>7. In the joyning i&s;&s;ue they &s;pare not to alledge any
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thing that may make for their purpo&s;e, though never &s;o far different from the pre&s;ent bu&s;ine&s;&s;e: It is not hin|ted in the Ca&s;e, nor was ever de&s;ired, that the Works &s;hould &s;tand any longer then to worke out the &s;tock; and as the wa&s;te and &s;poile of timber made by others in that Forre&s;t, doth not concerne Mr. <HI>Giffard,</HI> the &s;ame ought not to be urged to his prejudice: If any thing can be laid to his charge, he de&s;ires a fair proceeding by a le|gall triall, where he may have liberty to make his ju&s;t defence, and that he may not be de&s;troyed in an arbitra|ry way by a rude multitude, the greater part of which come to pilfer and &s;teale what they can lay hands on, and covertly carry away.</ITEM>
<ITEM>8. The lo&s;&s;e Mr. <HI>Giffard</HI> &s;u&s;tained at Cirence&s;ter, as it cannot be denied, when&s;oever it &s;hall be controverted, will ea&s;ily be proved, and for his &s;uppo&s;ed gain of 6000.l. in the Forre&s;t, it is a meer fiction hatch'd in the Penmans braine, and in ca&s;e he were a gainer, it is neither ju&s;t nor rea&s;onable he &s;hould be de&s;troyed without a cau&s;e. Their believing that he is not &s;o fit an object of pity as others, is no rule to the Parliament, the pay that the Petitioner and his &s;on received for their &s;ervice; was not half &s;o much as as he laid out to rai&s;e his Troop, their compa|ri&s;ons of other mens affections cannot bla&s;t his fidelity, who doth not &s;o urgently in&s;i&s;t upon the &s;tanding of the Works, but for a rea&s;onable time to work out his &s;tocke, which his judgement doth informe him will be both ho|norable and profitable for the Parliament to grant, and prejudiciall to no man, except &s;uch as de&s;ire to rai&s;e the price of Iron for their private advantage, to the manife&s;t damage of the Common-wealth,</ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>All which is humbly &s;ubmitted to the wi&s;dome and judgement of the Parliament, and every Member thereof, and their &s;peedy Order thereupon craved, without which &s;udden de&s;truction will fall upon</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>Your mo&s;t humble &s;ervant, <HI>JOHN GIFFARD.</HI></SIGNED></CLOSER>
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