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<DATE>2011-05-17</DATE>
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<NAME>Olivia Bottum</NAME>
<RESP>MURP</RESP>
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<ITEM>Did text and markup review.</ITEM>
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<TEXT LANG="eng">
<FRONT>
<DIV1 TYPE="title page">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<P>A REPLY of two of the Brethren <HI>TO</HI> A. S. WHEREIN YOU HAVE OBSERVATIONS ON HIS CONSIDERATIONS, ANNOTATIONS, &amp;c. Upon the Apologeticall Narration.</P>
<P>WITH A Plea for Libertie of Con&s;cience for the Apologi&s;ts Church way; Again&s;t the Cavils of the &s;aid <HI>A.S.</HI> Formerly called <HI>M. S.</HI> to <HI>A. S.</HI></P>
<P>Humbly &s;ubmitted to the judgements of all rationall, and moderate men in the world.</P>
<P>With a &s;hort &s;urvey of <HI>W. R.</HI> his <HI>Grave confutation of the Separation,</HI> and &s;ome mode&s;t, and innocent touches on the LETTER from <HI>ZELAND,</HI> And M^r. <HI>PARKER'S</HI> from <HI>New-England.</HI></P>
<P>The &s;econd Edition, corrected, and inlarged.</P>
<Q><P>Nec Imperiale est dicendi libertatem negare, nec Sacerdotale, quod &s;entias non decere.</P>
<BIBL><HI>Ambr. Ep. 17.</HI></BIBL></Q>
<P>Licenced and Entred according to Order.</P>
<P><HI>London,</HI> Printed by <HI>M. Simmons,</HI> for <HI>H. Overton.</HI> 1644.</P>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="to the reader">
<PB REF="2">
<PB REF="2">
<HEAD>A Word to the READER, &s;hewing the Cau&s;es of this &s;econd Edition, VIZ.</HEAD>
<P>_NOt meer importunity of friends (though many) but <HI>1.</HI> To un|di&s;plea&s;e (if it may be) &s;ome of the contrary judgement, by blotting out &s;ome &s;harp ex|pre&s;sions; though extorted, forced and wrung forth by the violent hammering and inculcating provocations of <HI>A. S.</HI> as may be &s;een in &s;everall pa&s;&s;ages of his <HI>Ob&s;ervati|ons,</HI> &amp;c. <HI>2.</HI> To plea&s;e the <HI>Author</HI> in recti|fying the accidental leaving out; as al&s;o the in&s;ertings in of &s;omethings, that gave not that &s;elf-content as &s;ome may deem. <HI>3.</HI> For the explanation of &s;ome things to the Rea|der.
<PB REF="3"><HI>Brevis e&s;&s;e laboro, ob&s;curus fio:</HI> ha&s;te cau&s;eth brevity, brevity ob&s;curity. The want, or change of an <HI>and, the, not,</HI> or <HI>that,</HI> &amp;c. oft-times makes a Sentence go heavie and har&s;h. <HI>4.</HI> To &s;et right &s;ome ma|teriall mi&s;takes in printing. <HI>5.</HI> And la&s;tly, to tell <HI>A. S.</HI> why no names at length were put to their book; <HI>viz.</HI> becau&s;e he did not put his name at length to his, nor hath hee any where in print owned it that we know of. Therefore have the two brethren (who only for di&s;patch, joyned in this <HI>Reply,</HI> to <HI>A. S.</HI>) forborn al&s;o in this &s;econd Edition to &s;ub&s;cribe their names, though they doubt not by Gods grace to make good any thing they have written.</P>
<CLOSER><SALUTE>Farewell.</SALUTE></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
</FRONT>
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="observations">
<PB N="1" REF="3">
<HEAD><HI>A. S.</HI> SOME OBSERVATIONS AND ANNOTATIONS VPON THE <HI>APOLOGETICALL NARRATION,</HI> Humbly &s;ubmitted to the Honorable Hou&s;es of PAR|LIAMENT, the mo&s;t Reverend and learned <HI>DIVINES</HI> of the <HI>A&s;&s;embly,</HI> and all the <HI>Prote&s;tant Churches</HI> here in this I&s;land and abroad.</HEAD>
<P><HI>M.S.</HI> _IF <HI>A. S.</HI> his heart be rent with di&s;content in two pieces (as he &s;aith in his Epi&s;tle) at the innocent bleatings of that wronged Lambe the Apologie; &s;urely our hearts more ju&s;tly may bee rent in twenty pieces to heare and &s;ee this roring Lyon|like Reply, with his many clawes of <HI>Ob&s;ervations, Annotations, Con&s;iderations,</HI> &amp; <HI>Notes,</HI> renting and tearing that mode&s;t and innocent thing, and no man &s;aying to him, Why doe&s;t thou &s;o? Is this the u&s;e men make of <HI>pre&s;&s;ing Sermons,</HI> and prin|ted <HI>Con&s;iderations</HI> to &s;tay and <HI>wait what the A&s;&s;embly would doe;</HI> that &s;ome preach, &amp; others print for their own way, on the one &s;ide, while&s;t the other &s;tand &s;till to be beaten, muffled and bound up from &s;peak|ing by Pen and Pre&s;&s;e without much &s;triving? The Apologie did but tell men with as gratious words &amp; as much &s;weetne&s;&s;e as a thing could &s;peake, how farre they did recede from, and di&s;claim <HI>Separation</HI> and <HI>Browni&s;me;</HI> and how neere they did cloze with the pre&s;ent reformed Churches, even beyond expectation, &amp; &s;ee how many &s;tinging flies are, and about to a light upon this youngling newly eaned. One buzzing to the other, as one Raven inviting another, at this lambing-time of the yeare, that the young brood at the &s;ame minute may &s;ee the light and lo&s;e their eyes.</P>
<P>How many Replyes in a few weekes, appearingly have turned the world, if not the Church, up&s;ide downe; mo&s;t men &s;eeming to bee re|&s;olved before the Arguments are &s;olved.</P>
<PB N="2" REF="4">
<P>Beleeve it, it workes more upon the &s;pirits of the be&s;t men, then e|ver any thing yet that befell this Kingdome. Things before were <HI>ir|regular</HI> enough, but now <HI>prepo&s;terous;</HI> before <HI>re&s;olute</HI> enough, now <HI>vi|olent;</HI> before the <HI>body</HI> of the Kingdome, the Common-wealth, was &s;ore &s;ick, now the <HI>&s;oule,</HI> the Church.</P>
<DIV2 TYPE="part">
<HEAD>THE TITLE OF THE BOOKE.</HEAD>
<P>The Title of the Booke in the Title page and the fir&s;t page is, <HI>Son<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> Ob&s;ervations, Annotations, and Generall Con&s;iderations upon the Apolo|geticall Narration, humbly &s;ubmitted to the Honorable Hou&s;es of Parlia|ment, the mo&s;t reverend and learned Divines of the A&s;sembly, and all the Prote&s;tant Churches here in this I&s;land, and abroad.</HI></P>
<P>A title carying a great breadth with it, and &s;oaring high, as if <HI>A. S.</HI> were confident that in his booke he &s;peakes <HI>learnedly,</HI> as a Scholar, <HI>truly,</HI> as an hone&s;t man, <HI>gravely,</HI> as a &s;erious man, and <HI>lovingly,</HI> as a Chri&s;tian man; and that all the&s;e waies hee did make good that title, which if it bee &s;haped to the booke, and read according to the rode thereof, I &s;peake it &s;eriou&s;ly and with a &s;ad heart (the&s;e being no times nor things for je&s;ting or jearing, which is the fault of <HI>A. S.</HI>)<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>A. P. M.</HI> &s;aid <HI>A. S.</HI> jeer'd. Another Gentlema~ &s;aid, he li|ked not the &s;pirit of the man, yet neither of them Indepen|dents.</NOTE> may mo&s;t ju&s;tly be read thus: <HI>In Ob&s;ervations and in Con&s;iderations &s;imply committed a|gain&s;t the Honorable Hou&s;es of Parliament, the reverend A&s;&s;embly of Di|vines, and the Prote&s;tant Churches at home and abroad.</HI></P>
<P>For this one &s;ingle &s;imple <HI>A. S.</HI> now &s;tarts up by him&s;elfe, peremp|torily to &s;tate, and determine the Que&s;tions, for the re&s;olution wherof the Parliament thought the A&s;&s;embly of Divines few enough to un|dertake; and therefore call'd all them together for that purpo&s;e, who are now mo&s;t intent upon the pin of the controver&s;ie; yet as if <HI>A. S.</HI> would take the worke out of their hands, he will anticipate, and fore|judge the five Mini&s;ters as utterly erring throughout (for he &s;ifts them corne after corne) which if true, the di&s;pute is an end. Goe then <HI>A. S.</HI> and carrie, if you dare, your platforme to the Parliament, and intreate the learned A&s;&s;embly to di&s;&s;olve.</P>
<P>But, <HI>A. S.</HI> will goe his owne way, and thereby hee hath given great offence to the <HI>Prote&s;tant Churches,</HI> to charge them all of di&s;&s;enting from the five Mini&s;ters, &amp; awakening mens &s;pirits into replyes, when before they were drow&s;ing with long expectation the&s;e two years of a publike determination, and I wi&s;h this might have been the la&s;t Reply, before all things were &s;weetly compo&s;ed. How ever this intends only to take off a&s;per&s;ions, not to lay downe a&s;&s;ertions. We will but barely an|&s;wer
<PB N="3" REF="4"><HI>A. S.</HI> who hath &s;o la&s;ht the five Mini&s;ters with &s;o much &s;harp|ne&s;&s;e of &s;pirit, for telling the world <HI>how far off they are from Browni&s;me and Separation, and how clo&s;e they come to the more reformed Churches in Scotland and England.</HI> Many very good men have wondred that the five Mini&s;ters clo&s;ed &s;o much; yet <HI>A. S.</HI> is bitterly angry they clo&s;e no more, before the point be di&s;puted. O, it was a fault of the Cynick Philo&s;opher in his high &s;hooes &s;o to dance on the Platonick Philo&s;o|phers Bed and Arras Coverlet, with boa&s;ting, that <HI>he danced on his bro|ther Philo&s;ophers pride,</HI> as that the patient Philo&s;opher could ju&s;tly re|ply, yea, &s;aith he, <HI>Thou dance&s;t on my pride with thy greater pride.</HI></P>
<P>How much of this is <HI>A. S.</HI> his, I &s;ay not; but &s;ure it was the un|&s;ea&s;onable&s;t, if not the mo&s;t un&s;avoury book to multitudes of &s;piritu|all palates, as ever wi&s;e man put forth.</P>
<P>Yet <HI>Iames Cranford</HI> is quoted by the Printer in the page before the Title, as approving it and the book with a licentious approbation, in the&s;e words; <HI>The&s;e judicious Ob&s;ervations and Annotations, &amp;c. as being at this time nece&s;&s;arie and &s;ea&s;onable for the vindication of all Prote&s;tant Chur|ches, defending the authority of Parliaments and Synods, and prevention of di|vi&s;ion amongst our &s;elves, (though I reverence the per&s;ons of the Apologi&s;ts, yet) I approve to be impre&s;&s;ed.</HI></P>
<P>Mr. <HI>Cranford,</HI> if the Printer hath dealt faithfully with you, let me intreat you (and the Lord help you) to &s;ee your &s;elfe, ask your con&s;ci|ence, ask your rea&s;on, ask the book it &s;elfe, whether there be one true clau&s;e in all that you have &s;aid?</P>
<P>Are the&s;e Ob&s;ervations, &amp;c. of <HI>A. S. judicious,</HI> that are extra-judici|all and prejudiciall to the publick peace and order, and ordinance for di&s;pute, prejudging and adjudging them, who joyntly with the grave A&s;&s;embly, <HI>A. S.</HI> acknowledgeth the Arbitrator in the matters in que|&s;tion? Are they at this time <HI>nece&s;&s;arie,</HI> when the grave Commi&s;&s;ioners of <HI>Scotland</HI> had with farre more prudence and &s;olidity then <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;aid by way of reply &s;o much to the Apologie, <HI>Nemine reclamante,</HI> none re|plying till <HI>A. S.</HI> was abroad? Is there any need to bring a great prin|ting Pre&s;&s;e, to &s;quee&s;e to death a poore worme troden on before? Or to bring many leavers to break an egge, that makes &s;mall re&s;i&s;tance? The truth is, <HI>A. S.</HI> his Ob&s;ervations are like a man with a Pole-axe, knock|ing a man on the head to kill a flie lighting on his beard.</P>
<P>For though he &s;aith, <HI>He humbly &s;ubmitteth to the Prote&s;tant Churches,</HI> yet hee layes about him as if hee would knock them all down unto a &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion to <HI>A.S.</HI> who&s;oever they be that will not &s;toop to his book. For though he thinkes that all <HI>Prote&s;tant and Chri&s;tian Churches</HI> are <HI>for
<PB N="4" REF="5">him</HI> rather then for the <HI>five Mini&s;ters,</HI> as he intimates in the beginning of his Epi&s;tle, and therefore in all likelihood profe&s;&s;eth a &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion to them, yet he will find many Churches in <HI>London</HI> (he would wonder if we &s;hould name how many) that will not &s;ubmit to his book, and yet come to the publick Ordinance, doe not &s;eparate, but are mo&s;t willing to &s;ubmit to the truth, regularly di&s;cu&s;&s;ed, cleared, and brought down to them. Yet &s;till <HI>James Cranford</HI> &s;tands fixed in the licence page, in black and not blu&s;h, for a&s;&s;erting that <HI>A. S.</HI> his Ob&s;ervations, &amp;c. are <HI>judicious</HI> and <HI>nece&s;&s;arie;</HI> when as they are neither, unle&s;&s;e <HI>prepo&s;terou&s;ne&s;&s;e, abu&s;e of good men,</HI> and the <HI>di&s;turbance of the people,</HI> be <HI>judicious</HI> and <HI>nece&s;&s;a|rie.</HI> For though the en&s;uing an&s;wer will prove them evill, yet they will never be proved nece&s;&s;arie evils. They are not &s;o much as <HI>civilly nece&s;sary,</HI> either <HI>nece&s;&s;itate praecepti,</HI> as commanded by Parliament, or A&s;&s;embly, or <HI>nece&s;&s;itate medii,</HI> as u&s;efull to compo&s;e, but indi&s;po&s;e the minds of men, to embrace things prejudiced with the violence of private &s;pirits. Men will not be &s;o ea&s;ily whipt and compelled by one inferiour.</P>
<P>Again, are the Ob&s;ervations <HI>&s;ea&s;onable,</HI> which doe but <HI>inter&s;trepere,</HI> make a noy&s;e, whil&s;t the Divines are di&s;puting, drawing the people together in heaps, there taking up their parts, to defend one again&s;t another, and pre-ingage them&s;elves before they come to heare what the A&s;&s;embly will &s;ay? For &s;uch a book cannot come forth, but it makes a thou&s;and di&s;pute in a week, every one then contending for his owne, when it is &s;o irregularly and illegally taken from him. Are they for the <HI>vindication of all Prote&s;tant Churches,</HI> when as in condemning the Apology, they condemne <HI>many,</HI> very many Churches in <HI>England, ma|ny</HI> in <HI>Holland,</HI> generally <HI>all</HI> in <HI>New-England,</HI> notwith&s;tanding &s;ome private Letters and Manu&s;cripts &s;ent over, to which we &s;hall an&s;wer afterwards. Are they for the <HI>defence of the authoritie of Parliament,</HI> in oppo&s;ition to the Apology? Doth the Apology touch one haire of the honourable heads of the Parliament? Are not the five Mini&s;ters chidden &s;ome where in print,<NOTE PLACE="marg">R. C.</NOTE> for &s;aying, <HI>They allow more to the civill Magi&s;trate, then they thinke others principles can?</HI> Doth not <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;nib them t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">o for going (as he thinkes in their Apology) to the civill Ma|gi&s;trate?<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Pag.</HI> 4.</NOTE> Doth not <HI>A. S.</HI> in his Booke give a negative vote again&s;t the civill Magi&s;trates directive power in matters of Religion?<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Pag.</HI> 5.</NOTE> Let me &s;ay what I thinke, &s;eeng I think no harme, viz. If the re&s;olutions of the Divines be not dige&s;ted by the rea&s;on and graces of the Hou&s;es of Parliament, and &s;o made as their owne &s;en&s;e, for ought I know they will never be turned into a Statute.</P>
<P><PB N="5" REF="5">
If the Parliament have no directive power in matters of Religion, or Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall, under any notion; then <HI>A. S.</HI> will condemn them for voting down the new Canons, and pre&s;cribing the Oath or Covenant.</P>
<P>Are the&s;e Ob&s;ervations for the <HI>defence of the authoritie of Synods,</HI> in oppo&s;ition to the Apologie? What Synods? <HI>Scripture-Synods?</HI> Where doth the Apologie whimper again&s;t them? or doe you mean <HI>Cla&s;&s;icall</HI> ones? If &s;o, that's the que&s;tion. And &s;o you proclaim a <HI>defence</HI> of that which yet hath no <HI>exi&s;tence.</HI> The que&s;tion is not re&s;olved. La&s;tly, are the&s;e <HI>Ob&s;ervations for prevention of &s;ad divi&s;ion amongst our &s;elves?</HI></P>
<P>Well. Mr. <HI>Cranford,</HI> you have by this endeavoured to &s;et Divines together by the eares <HI>More Eccle&s;ia&s;tico,</HI> your licentiating hath inabled men to give the <HI>&s;econd blow,</HI> upon <HI>which</HI> the Common Law layeth the <HI>breach of the peace.</HI> And notwith&s;tanding you licence the&s;e <HI>Annotations, yet you &s;ay you reverence the per&s;ons of the Apologi&s;ts.</HI> A pinne for &s;uch com|plements; Love me, and love the truth. Let us mea&s;ure your re&s;pects to them, whil&s;t the advantage of the higher ground whereon it &s;tands be removed. Away with your <HI>dare verba,</HI> your froathy words; This is the truth, &s;o much you re&s;pect them, as <HI>A. S.</HI> re&s;pects them. And &s;o much have you &s;poken <HI>judiciou&s;ly, truly,</HI> and <HI>&s;ea&s;onably,</HI> as <HI>A.S.</HI> hath &s;poken, and no more. If he be ca&s;t, you will be condemned. Stand by Mr <HI>Cran|ford,</HI> and heare <HI>A. S.</HI> tryed, and in him your &s;elfe.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="part">
<HEAD>THE EPISTLE.</HEAD>
<P>A. S. <HI>To the right reverend Divines, the Authors of the Apologetical Narration.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> The Authors of the Apologeticall Narration de&s;ire more of your <HI>right,</HI> though they have le&s;&s;e of your <HI>reverence.</HI> Had I written a booke with &s;o much <HI>unreverence,</HI> I would either have blotted out my title <HI>Right Reverend,</HI> or el&s;e I &s;hould never have put in that Epi&s;copall &s;tile, <HI>Mo&s;t Reverend,</HI> and <HI>Right Reverend,</HI> &s;eeing the <HI>Bi&s;hops</HI> are going. For to &s;troke in the title, and to &s;trike in the book, is but flattery, if not gro&s;&s;e di&s;&s;imulation. Or as to &s;ay, <HI>Art thou in health my brother? and in the meane while to &s;trike under the fift rib.</HI></P>
<P>A. S. <HI>The high e&s;teeme I have ever had of your per&s;ons, &amp;c. except onely in your particular opinions, wherein the di&s;&s;ent from al Prote&s;tant, yea all Chri|&s;tian Churches in the world.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Now let the Prote&s;tant Churches (to whom you &s;ay you &s;ub|mit) judge whether in the&s;e words, there be not a notorious untruth. For wherein doe the five Mini&s;ters and their Churches differ from ma|ny
<PB N="6" REF="6">Churches in <HI>England,</HI> diver&s;e in <HI>Holland,</HI> and generally all within the Patent of <HI>New-England,</HI> if you account the&s;e places Prote&s;tant?</P>
<P>It may be you will object, Mr. <HI>Parkers Letter and &s;ome Manu&s;cripts from New-England, and the Letter from Zeland.</HI> To Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> his Let|ter we neede &s;ay little, the Letter will an&s;wer for us, though Mr. <HI>Par|ker</HI> little thought when he wrote it, to finde an <HI>A. S.</HI> in <HI>England,</HI> or that his brother <HI>Bayly</HI> would have printed his Letter &s;eemingly to an|ticipate the di&s;putation of the A&s;&s;embly, as if hee meant to beg the que|&s;tion, though but with &s;hewes and &s;hadowes.</P>
<P N="1">1. Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> &s;aith not one word for a <HI>Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyterie,</HI> (the maine difference in hand) but for a <HI>Congregationall,</HI> that he would have in &s;ome things more managed by the Presbyteries of every Congrega|tion, without putting every thing to the vote of the people of the Congregation, becau&s;e &s;ome <HI>confu&s;ion</HI> hath followed upon it. Doth in nece&s;&s;aries abu&s;e take away the u&s;e? There was confu&s;ion in the Church of <HI>Corinth.</HI> Or is there any mention of this in the Apologie, that all bu&s;ine&s;&s;es of the Church mu&s;t be put to the vote of the Congregation?</P>
<P N="2">2. That in that thing only there hath been an arguing on both &s;ides. M. <HI>Parker</HI> &amp; Mr. <HI>Noy&s;e</HI> only are mentioned in the letter, to be on the one &s;ide &amp; all the other Churches on the other, again&s;t Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> and Mr. <HI>Noy&s;e.</HI> And 3^l^y. Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> doth not &s;ay he won the day, but as hee an&s;wered their Arguments (as he &s;aith) &s;o he confe&s;&s;eth they an&s;wered his Argu|ments, and the thing is left to con&s;ideration. Yea a godly man of New-England told me that the Churches of New-England did conceive that Mr. <HI>Parker</HI> had received full &s;atisfaction from them in that point. How ever it were, all amounts but to a private letter &s;ub&s;cribed by one man, yet <HI>Imprimatur</HI> &s;aith <HI>I. C.</HI> as if much to the purpo&s;e. But tooke but a little afterward to our an&s;wer to a Letter from Zeland, and you &s;hall find the judgement of New-England in Letters newly come over.</P>
<P>To any private copies or Manu&s;cripts from New-England, one Mr. <HI>Rutherf<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">d</HI> hath an&s;wered, as too much jumping with the Apologie and oppo&s;ite to <HI>Cla&s;&s;icall Presbytery.</HI> Another, if it had come forth, would have beene keener again&s;t <HI>A. S.</HI> then the Apologie is. So that if the Apologie doe differ from that, it's onely becau&s;e the Apologie more agrees with the reformed Churches of this I&s;land. And for the third, it hath nothing at all for <HI>Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyterie,</HI> but &s;ome things touching the ordering of Congregationall Presbyteries, and all the&s;e are but private intelligencers, and mutuall advi&s;ers, not determinati|on, or natio<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">all. No more then, I &s;uppo&s;e, Mr. <HI>Cranford</HI> or <HI>A. S.</HI> will ac|count the &s;trange <HI>Queries</HI> on the Apologie and Scotch Commi&s;&s;ioners
<PB N="7" REF="6">Reply, to bee the &s;en&s;e of New-England, though made by one of that Countrey.</P>
<P>As for the letter of <HI>Zeland,</HI> I cannot tell how to &s;peak all the truth, &amp; not offend &s;ome, whom by my will I would not in the lea&s;t di&s;plea&s;e. Sure this will not offend to tell <HI>A. S.</HI> that in <HI>Holland,</HI> if not in <HI>Zeland,</HI> are &s;ome Churches that are fully with the five Mini&s;ters, unto which &s;ome of them doe relate. And to &s;peake the&s;e things to the Letter it &s;elfe, being matters of fact, I hope cannot ju&s;tly offend. 1. That that Letter came admirably punctuall upon the very nick after the fir&s;t re|ply to the Apologie was out. 2. That a Scotti&s;h Knight (as it was infor|med) nine or ten dayes before it was known abroad, that the letter was to come, &s;aid, <HI>What if ye receive a Letter from Zeland, di&s;liking the Apo|logie?</HI> or to that effect. 3. That there is a Scotti&s;h Church (of which one <HI>Spang</HI> is a very bu&s;ie agent) at <HI>Trevere</HI> hard by <HI>Middleborough,</HI> whence the letter came. 4. That there are in it many high pa&s;&s;ages &s;eeming to &s;ome &s;o prejudiciall to our worthy Magi&s;tracy, that it ju&s;tifies that of the Apology, &s;aying, <HI>That the five Mini&s;ters, &amp;c. give more to the Civil Magi&s;trates, then the principles of &s;ome Presbyterians do.</HI> The &s;aid letter giving &s;o <HI>too little</HI> to the Magi&s;tracy, that the State of <HI>England,</HI> I think, cannot approve it here among us. <HI>Verbum &s;apienti&s;at e&s;t.</HI> More may be thought, upon evident grounds, but not &s;poken here. 5. Mo&s;t happily by almo&s;t a miraculary providence, in this nick of time, came two let|ters from <HI>New-England</HI> to countermand Mr. <HI>Parkers</HI> Letter thence, and the other from <HI>Zeland.</HI></P>
<P>The fir&s;t from Mr. <HI>Winthorp</HI> Governor of <HI>New England, To his reve|rend and very good brother, Mr.</HI> Hugh Peters <HI>Mini&s;ter of the Go&s;pel, the&s;e deliver in London. Our late A&s;sembly of about fourty Elders met, wherein the way of our Churches was approved, and the Presbytery di&s;allowed.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Winthorp Governor. Decemb.</HI> 10. 1643.</P>
<P>The &s;econd from another of <HI>New-England,</HI> to another Mini&s;ter in <HI>Old-England</HI> about the &s;ame time, wherein we have the&s;e pa&s;&s;ages. <HI>We have had,</HI> &s;aith he, <HI>a Synod lately in our Colledge, wherein &s;undry things were agreed on gravely, as, That the votes of the people are needfull in all admi&s;&s;i|ons and excommunications, at lea&s;t in way of con&s;ent; all yeelding to act with their con&s;ent.</HI> 2. <HI>That tho&s;e that are fit matter for a Church, though they are not alwayes able to make large and particular relations of the work and do|ctrine of faith, yet mu&s;t not live in the commi&s;&s;ion of any known &s;in, or the neg|lect of any known duty.</HI> 3. <HI>That con&s;ociation of Churches in way of more gene|rall meetings yearly, and more private monethly or quarterly, as Con&s;ultative Synods, are very comfortable and nece&s;&s;ary for the peace and good of the Chur|ches.</HI>
<PB N="8" REF="7">4. <HI>It was generally de&s;ired that the exercitium of the Churches power might onely be in the Elder&s;hip in each particular Church, unle&s;&s;e their &s;innes be apparent in their worke.</HI> 5. <HI>That Pari&s;hes, Churches in old England, could not be right without a renewed Covenant at lea&s;t, and the refu&s;ers ex|cluded. And were not New-England &s;o farre, the Churches of New-Eng|land would &s;oon &s;end a third, punctually to approve the Apologie, unle&s;s it bee for their merer compliance with them who notwith&s;tanding have written a|gain&s;t them.</HI></P>
<P>We have been the longer in an&s;wer to this clau&s;e, becau&s;e wee finde <HI>A. S.</HI> to bee but the Text of other mens Commentary-di&s;cour&s;es; who &s;ay, <HI>That the five Mini&s;ters will oppo&s;e all the vi&s;ible Chri&s;tian Chur|ches in the world.</HI> If they did, it were not &s;uch a wonder, as for one <HI>Wickliff</HI> in one age, one <HI>Hu&s;&s;e</HI> in another, and <HI>Luther</HI> in a third to op|po&s;e all the world.</P>
<P>The truth is, all Churches generally, partly by tyranny, and partly by Security, are grown &s;o corrupt, that to apologize for a through reformation, &s;eemes to reprove all, and &s;o all are ready to be offended, that are le&s;&s;e reformed. We have heard of &s;ad &s;tories of late, but true, (not teld in a corner) of the <HI>lamentable over-&s;preading of Popery, Athe|i&s;me, drunkenne&s;&s;e in &s;ome kingdomes, and adulterie, formality, &amp;c. in o|thers.</HI> If we reforme but in part, by halves, imitating <HI>Hen.</HI> 8. towards the Pope, <HI>cutting off the head of Prelacie, and &s;itting down in their Chaire (&s;imilia non &s;unt contraria)</HI> as M^r <HI>Davenport</HI> meeting with a Cla&s;&s;icall Presbytery in his way to <HI>New-England,</HI> &s;aid they were but thirteen Bi|&s;hops for one) the cry of the &s;in again&s;t our light and opportunity, will call back our reeling Reformation (like will ha&s;ten to like) an unble&s;t po&s;ture will leave us unhealed of our &s;ins, and our &s;ins will make us be|come any thing. Had not the Abbeys been pulled downe, the <HI>Priories</HI> &s;ince had had opportunity to have ri&s;en. Therefore <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> grinds the Idol to powder, that it might be quite aboli&s;hed. I &s;peak all this by way of &s;uppo&s;ition, what &s;hall upon full debate be found to be the <HI>Idol,</HI> the <HI>ne&s;t</HI> of Popery, the <HI>Chair</HI> of Prelacy, the <HI>half-reformation.</HI></P>
<P>Thus of your charging the <HI>five Mini&s;ters</HI> with di&s;&s;enting from all <HI>Prote&s;tant Churches.</HI> The expre&s;&s;ion that follows, is a mo&s;t gro&s;&s;e one. <HI>That they differ from all Chri&s;tian Churches.</HI> I &s;ay gro&s;&s;e, in two things: 1. To call them <HI>Churches,</HI> and <HI>Chri&s;tian,</HI> that are not Prote&s;tant (and <HI>ergo</HI> are Popi&s;h) now &s;ince the Councell of <HI>Trent</HI> wherein they gave Chri&s;t a bill of divorce (as the learned a&s;&s;ert) anathematizing mo&s;t of his main truths. The Popi&s;h (notwith&s;tanding a few Saints in <HI>&s;ecret</HI> here and there) are in a dependance on Antichri&s;t. 2. To charge it as a
<PB N="9" REF="7">crime on the five Mini&s;ters to differ from them, when as it is a &s;in and &s;hame not to di&s;&s;ent from them. If you diffent not from them, you will never kindly di&s;&s;ent from the intituled Mo. <HI>R. A. BB.</HI> and Rt. Rev. BB. I ob&s;erve that men in their Replies, &s;ecretly afore they are aware, run to the Popi&s;h markes of a Church, <HI>viz. Vi&s;ibility, Succe&s;&s;ion, &V;ni|ver&s;alitie.</HI></P>
<P>A. S. <HI>You as my &s;elfe are but men, yet ye know but in part, and con&s;equently may erre.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Yet this one man thinks he hath more knowledge to his part, then the other <HI>five Mini&s;ters,</HI> or el&s;e &s;ure he would not &s;o boldly con|demne them of erring, in a point which all the A&s;&s;embly have not yet determined; and &s;o peremptorily acquit him&s;elf.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>I thought this which is the que&s;tion between you and all the Churches in the Chri&s;tian world.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> This untruth comes thick upon us, <HI>that the Apol differs from all the Chri&s;tian world.</HI> It is intimated in the title. It is expre&s;&s;ed in the very beginning of the Epi&s;tle, and here againe, and once more in 3. pag. of the Epi&s;t. and once in Con&s;id. 5. and how oft more in the book I doe not yet know, till I find as I goe. We have an&s;wered it once for all in the thre&s;hold of this Epi&s;tle.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>I e&s;teemed it no le&s;&s;e a part of my dutie and Chri&s;tian libertie, as a man to oppo&s;e my &s;elfe to five men: then for five men to oppo&s;e five hundred thou&s;and, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Hear ye, O all ye men on earth, that <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;aith it is his <HI>Chri|&s;tian liberty</HI> to oppo&s;e the <HI>five Mini&s;ters:</HI> but the whole &s;cope of his booke is to rebuke them upon &s;uppo&s;ition that they doe oppo&s;e others. whiles they tell them wherein: they agree with them. One in&s;tance follows at the he<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">l of his <HI>Chri&s;tian liberty;</HI> to which by and by. Mean while, Reader, ob&s;erve how this mans words do &s;mell <HI>popi&s;hly</HI> (though I think the man to be a real Prote&s;tant) as if they came from Rome, in|timating as if <HI>vi&s;ibilitie, univer&s;alitie,</HI> and &s;o <HI>pluralitie</HI> of voyces of lear|ned men, might be unerring, or very certain argument. He &s;peaks as if he had forgot or never heard of <HI>Wickliff,</HI> many yeares after him <HI>Hu&s;&s;e,</HI> long after him <HI>Luther&punc;</HI> ju&s;tly oppo&s;ing the whole world, as we all religiou&s;ly maintain at this day. And that one <HI>Paph<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">utius</HI> oppo&s;ed a whole Councel (mi&s;taken in a point) which is upon record of Hi&s;tory, to his great honour to this day.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>Five men to oppo&s;e &s;o many learned men, &s;o many holy Divines, hun|dreds, and thou&s;ands for one of you, no way inferiour to the learnede&s;t and be&s;t among you, and not only to particular men and Divines, but to &s;o many; yea,
<PB N="10" REF="8">and tho&s;e the mo&s;t pure, and mo&s;t reformed Churches of the world, among&s;t whom there have been found &s;o many thou&s;ands who have &s;ealed Chri&s;ts truth with the lo&s;&s;e of their goods, impri&s;onment of their bodies, by exile of their per|&s;ons, yea with their deare&s;t blood, and lives, who if they wrote not miracles, yet God declared his almighty power in working miracles about them, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Here we have in <HI>forme</HI> (and I will not &s;ay how much more) a <HI>Popi&s;h</HI> argument, I will not &s;ay a <HI>mopi&s;h</HI> argument; I abhor flying on men in &s;tead of <HI>matter.</HI> To this I will &s;peake, and then they that will be deceived, let them be deceived. Fir&s;t, you<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Doctrines and practi&s;es prove men good, not men, do|ctrines and practi&s;es good</NOTE> dub &s;uch a number of men and people Saints, <HI>mo&s;t reformed, learned, no way inferiour to the learned&s;t, and be&s;t among the five Mini&s;ters,</HI> as if you knew perfectly all mens &s;pi|rits, mens lives in all places in the world, and the five Mini&s;ters parts, &amp;c. <HI>intus &amp; incute.</HI> Then &s;econdly, as before you came, what <HI>R. Reve|rend and mo&s;t Reverend</HI> (I de&s;ire to &s;peake it no other way then with a Chri&s;tian griefe and anger again&s;t &s;uch Sophi&s;mes) &s;o now you Cant to us as it were the Popi&s;h Prelaticall <HI>Letanie,</HI> and <HI>Te Deum,</HI> As if by the <HI>temptations and fa&s;tings,</HI> by the <HI>pa&s;&s;ions,</HI> by the <HI>deaths and burialls of &s;uffe|ring Chri&s;tians; The noble army of Martyrs prai&s;ing the holy Church through|out all the world acknowledging,</HI> you would conjure us to yeeld any thing upon pluralitie of voyces, or topick arguments, that may &amp; are turned every way, and u&s;ed by all &s;orts good and bad for their owne waies.</P>
<P N="1">1. Men <HI>living in a notorious &s;inne</HI> of gro&s;&s;e u&s;ury, unju&s;t enclo&s;ures, monopolizing, &amp;c. Fir&s;t, They will tell you of &s;everall Mini&s;ters, &amp;c. very holy men; and then &s;econdly, They will tell you that tho&s;e Mi|ni&s;ters doe approve of tho&s;e things.</P>
<P N="2">2. The <HI>Malignants now cry,</HI> that &s;o many good Lords, &s;o many Par|liament men, mo&s;t of two Kingdomes are for the King, <HI>Ergo,</HI> the King doth well; beleeve it who &s;o will.</P>
<P>The <HI>Papi&s;ts</HI> proclaime, that they have pluralitie of voyces, Martyrs, &amp;c. <HI>Ergo,</HI> they are in the right.</P>
<P>So the <HI>Prelacie</HI> tell us, that of Bi&s;hops were many Martyrs (to which <HI>Smectymnuus</HI> an&s;wers) by them was compo&s;ed the Liturgie, and they have a thou&s;and for one of them, (&s;o they had formerly) and mo&s;t of the learned Doctors, &amp;c. Scholars, Divines and Lawyers were for them, therefore they were in the right.</P>
<P>Then &s;ome of our re&s;pected brethren of the reputed <HI>godly Non-Con|formi&s;ts</HI> come in a title of a Booke thus,<NOTE PLACE="marg">A touch on W. R. his booke, called <HI>The grave Con|futation,</HI> &amp;c.</NOTE> <HI>A mo&s;t grave and mode&s;t Confu|tation of the errors of the &s;ect commonly called</HI> (as <HI>W. R.</HI> &s;ayth) <HI>Browni&s;ts or Seperati&s;ts</HI> (&s;o his skill writes it for <HI>Separati&s;ts</HI>) <HI>agreed upon long &s;ince by the joynt con&s;ent of &s;undry godly and learned Mini&s;ters of this Kingdome,
<PB N="11" REF="8">then &s;tanding out and &s;uffering in the cau&s;e of Inconformitie, and now publi&s;h|ed in a time of neede</HI><NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">VVhat now all, or the greate&s;t part of them, come to our publik meetings, and the Apol. di&s;|claims Sepa|ration, and Browni&s;me? unle&s;&s;e you would drive them to corners again.</NOTE> <HI>&amp;c. again&s;t that pernitious evill. Publi&s;hed by W. R.</HI> As if their &s;ufferings were a &s;eale of the ju&s;t length of reformation, how farre we mu&s;t go, and no further. When as the mo&s;t of them &s;tood only upon the negative part, <HI>What they would not have,</HI> but onely a few declared po&s;itively, of which &s;ome for a Congregationall presbytery or Church-way, be it, or be it not, <HI>a pernitious evill,</HI> as <HI>W. R.</HI> calls it. God forbid, that if wee have &s;uffered for Chri&s;t, in the behalfe of any piece of truth, that therefore we &s;hould pride up our &s;elves as having done &s;o much; or &s;tint our &s;elves from proceeding further in know|ledge, or affright our &s;elves from &s;uffering more, if more truths bee to be <HI>contended for,</HI> as the Apo&s;tle &s;peakes; or lea&s;t of all through the &s;ides of <HI>Browni&s;me</HI> or <HI>Separation,</HI> to would the truth &amp; Saints of Je&s;us Chri&s;t, ju&s;t in the nick of &s;uch reproachings ca&s;t upon them that di&s;claime in words and practi&s;e all pernicious Browni&s;me, &amp;c. It cannot bee for|gotten that the choice&s;t doctrines held in <HI>England,</HI> have beene called pernitious here&s;ie. And therefore it is an high peremptorine&s;&s;e in a generall title to call all tho&s;e things <HI>pernitious evils,</HI> &s;ome of which are truths. We have, and doe di&s;claim <HI>Separation</HI> and <HI>Browni&s;me,</HI> properly &s;o called.</P>
<P>But if the <HI>Pope</HI> or the <HI>Devill</HI><NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Mar. 1.24.</NOTE> confe&s;&s;e Chri&s;t, we will not therefore call that truth, <HI>a pernitious evill.</HI> I &s;uppo&s;e all that <HI>W. R.</HI> book &s;ets forth in heads, and Chapters, as to be confuted, are &s;ome of tho&s;e things hee means are <HI>pernitious evills.</HI> As,</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. That <HI>pag.</HI> 8. <HI>Many Pari&s;h-Churches are not rightly gathered.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. That <HI>p.</HI> 11. <HI>That they Communicate in a fal&s;e and idolatrous wor&s;hip, as &s;tinted prayers; Homilies, Catechi&s;mes.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>3. That <HI>p.</HI> 17. <HI>they want that Di&s;cipline and order which Chri&s;t in his Te&s;tament hath appointed for the gouernement of his Church.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>4. That <HI>p.</HI> 50. <HI>That it is objected again&s;t them, that the ignorant and pro|phane multitude are admitted to all priviledges of the C<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">urches.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
<P>Are the&s;e (we give but a ta&s;t) <HI>pernitious evills?</HI> Then you condemne <HI>Smeclymnuus</HI> for writing, the Parliament and A&s;&s;embly for removing and about to remove the&s;e exceptions; And mo&s;t presbyterian Mini|&s;ters in <HI>London</HI> for forbearing togive Communious to &s;uch multitudes. Mr. <HI>Calamy</HI> &s;aid, that <HI>an impo&s;ed, Litu<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">gie was idolatry.</HI> And our worthy brethren of Scorland ju&s;tly &s;tood up again&s;t the&s;e enormi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ies. No won|der therefore if <HI>W. R.</HI> booke abound with weakene&s;&s;es and impertinen|cies; in &s;tead of Confutation of &s;uch things as the&s;e. For I patronage not any fal&s;e or unadvi&s;ed &s;peeches of <HI>Barrow,</HI> or &amp;c. there u&s;ed.</P>
<P N="3"><PB N="12" REF="9">
3. <HI>A. S.</HI> Saying, <HI>That the Apologi&s;ts differ from the mo&s;t reformed Chur|ches in the world.</HI> Some of which hee knowes are in Holland, more in England, mo&s;t in New-England, all publike Churches, if hee &s;peakes not fal&s;ly, or ignorantly; yet begging the Que&s;tion, whether the Churches named, or the Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyterian are mo&s;t reformed?</P>
<P>To clo&s;e our an&s;wer to this, tell us no more of your multitud<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">s, the Lord keepe us all from the <HI>broad way that leadeth to de&s;truction,</HI> though <HI>many there be therein.</HI> One <HI>Phinees,</HI> one <HI>Elijah</HI> left alone in the eye of the world, two again&s;t thou&s;ands, <HI>viz. Caleb</HI> and <HI>Jo&s;uah</HI> in the truth are more to be honored, then &s;warmes of &s;warvers (I judge none.) The time is at hand, that <HI>ten men &s;hall take hold of one Jew</HI><NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Zech. 8.23.</NOTE> and &s;o on one true&punc; chri&s;tian. Godly men may be hunted out of a Kingdom, not of the truth,
meane while &s;uch a Kingdom may be without them, but neere the more without judgments, <HI>England</HI> was never quiet, but wor&s;e &amp; wor&s;e, &s;ince it hunted away almo&s;t a little Nation of Saints to <HI>New-England,</HI> though <HI>W. R.</HI> joyning i&s;&s;ue with <HI>A. S.</HI> will follow them, with a blotting pen in print, even to that Kingdome too. Yea and take in his way many Churches in old <HI>England,</HI> and &s;ome that are and lately were in <HI>Holland,</HI> and then have at <HI>New-England,</HI> none comes ami&s;&s;e that have gone an inch in reformation beyond <HI>W. R.</HI> his Non-Conformitie. Like him who would &s;trike all that were next him, who e're they were that in|jured him. And all this worke he cuts out for him&s;elfe in his booke he calls <HI>a Narration of &s;ome Church cour&s;es in New-England.</HI></P>
<P>&lindx; O that all Readers that will not be wilfully blind, would by the way ob&s;erve, how <HI>A. S.</HI> condemnes the Apologi&s;ts, as guiltie of di&s;&s;en|ting from the Churches in <HI>New-England.</HI> And <HI>W. R.</HI> condemnes them for agreeing with the Churches of <HI>New-England.</HI> So that <HI>A. S.</HI> and <HI>W. R.</HI> doe not agree betweene them&s;elves. But you &s;hall have an An|&s;wer to that booke of <HI>W. R.</HI> in a di&s;tinct treati&s;e by it &s;elfe, ere long God permitting. Meane while we goe forward with <HI>A. S.</HI></P>
<P>A. S. <HI>I am per&s;waded in my con&s;cience, that your opinion of Independency, &amp;c. if it were admitted (pardon my expre&s;&s;ion till I be better in&s;tructed) could not but prove the roote of all &s;orts of Schi&s;me and Here&s;ie, and con&s;equently the utter overthrow of Chri&s;ts univer&s;all militant Church.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> If you &s;peake cordially, as &s;uppo&s;ing indeede that you may be better in&s;tructed, it had beene be&s;t for you to have &s;tayd for the A&s;|&s;emblies determination, or to have conferred with &s;ome of them you write again&s;t, before you had written and printed that de&s;perate &s;peech, le&s;t the inke &s;eeme letters of blood to you at your dying pil|low. I warrant you, if what one, or many <HI>&s;ay onely,</HI> would make an ar|gument,
<PB N="13" REF="9">a multitude would &s;ay, <HI>that a coactive cla&s;&s;icall Presbyterie would be the root of couched Prelacy, and Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall tyrannie.</HI> But I will not be one of them to &s;ay &s;o. <HI>Probatum e&s;t;</HI> in <HI>New-England,</HI> that which you call <HI>Independency,</HI> hath not procured, but cured, or purged out here&s;ies, &s;chi&s;mes, formalitie, prophanene&s;s, more then &s;ome other Kingdoms that &s;o hate and hit at mi&s;-called <HI>Independeney.</HI></P>
<P>A. S. <HI>You &s;ue for a Toleration, and con&s;equently for a Separation.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> So then, where Papi&s;ts are tolerated, there they are Separati&s;ts too. It's but the Noun of multitude between, but that the <HI>Independents</HI> in <HI>England</HI> might tolerate, and the <HI>Presbyterians</HI> might be tolerated, would they then be <HI>Separati&s;ts?</HI> Who de&s;ires &s;eparation? but rather union in the truth. If any hold the truth, and &s;tumble, though of weak|ne&s;s, at &s;ome &s;maller matters, (as you count them) it is your duty to &s;uffer them, and to <HI>bear with the weak,</HI> and not <HI>offend the con&s;ciences of Brethren;</HI> or Gods woe is by him pronounced again&s;t you.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>I may adde to all the&s;e, your undervaluing of the Parliaments great favour towards you. For yee know, brethren, how they, notwith&s;tanding your former &s;eparation from all other Churches, &amp;c. invited you to be members of this A&s;&s;embly, had they not given you the capacity, yee had been altogether in|capable. And not only that, but they honoured one of you with the high favour of &s;ending one of you with their Commi&s;&s;ioners to</HI> Scotland.</P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> O abominable accu&s;ation, O &s;ycophanti&s;ing in&s;inuation! Who art. <HI>A. S. Cujas.</HI> Can an <HI>Engli&s;h-man,</HI> unje&s;uited, or any Mini|&s;ter unprelati&s;ed, or any man hone&s;ti&s;ed, &s;ay thus? I am di&s;tre&s;&s;ed how to put home to this, and yet prudently. I tell thee, <HI>A. S.</HI> Thy <HI>accu&s;ation</HI> is a gro&s;s fal&s;hood. For their re&s;pect to the Parliament, and their re|&s;pect from the Parliament, let many of the choyce members of both Hou&s;es &s;peak, they will &s;oon prove thee a gro&s;s &mdash;. Thy <HI>probation</HI> a &s;illy phanta&s;ie. Did ever any Vote of the <HI>Parliament,</HI> or of the <HI>A&s;&s;embly,</HI> accu&s;e the Apologie of undervaluing the <HI>Parliaments</HI> favours? None but he that hath <HI>A. S.</HI> as part of his name, would &s;ay &s;o. For all di&s;|creet men &s;ee plainly, that as the <HI>form</HI> and &s;tile of the Apologie is mo&s;t &s;weet; &s;o the <HI>matter</HI> now in hand &s;o much as is there intimated, is the Que&s;tion. Can that be an offence to the <HI>Parliament,</HI> for the five Mini|&s;ters to propound that of the things they are to debate (by Ordinance of <HI>Parliament</HI>) which is to them the que&s;tion, making it ready, and lea|ving it for debate in the A&s;&s;embly? Yea, whether the whole draught of the Apologie be to be condemned or commended by the <HI>Parliament,</HI> that is al&s;o a que&s;tion yet unre&s;olved, by <HI>Parliament, A&s;&s;embly,</HI> and a con&s;iderable part of City and Kingdom. Therefore why doth one <HI>A. S.</HI>
<PB N="14" REF="10">pre&s;umptuou&s;ly make it a crime again&s;t the <HI>Parliament?</HI> Since the thrice worthy <HI>Parliament</HI> had it in debate in the Hou&s;e,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>March.</HI> 13. 1643.</NOTE> being put on by the Letters from <HI>Middleborough</HI> in <HI>Zeland,</HI> and upon the &s;peech of learned M^r^. <HI>Selden,</HI> and others, they re&s;olved with a generall acclama|tion, that the Apologie was to be left as it was found, <HI>unblamed.</HI> The God of heaven in much mercy ble&s;s the <HI>Parliament,</HI> as for all the good they have done, &s;o for their uprightne&s;s therein, They joy of the Churches is now as high as their &s;orrows would have been deep, had it been condemned. For it would to them have been not only a dolefull <HI>ante,</HI> or <HI>anti,</HI> but-anticipating-pre&s;age. But ble&s;&s;ed be our <HI>Parliament-guiding</HI> God; that as they had no hand in the Apologie, &s;o they would have no hand again&s;t it. Therefore away <HI>A. S. Operam &amp; oleum perdi|di&s;ti</HI> (as the Starling &s;aid to the Emperour, having &s;aluted him in vain with <GAP DESC="foreign">) you have lo&s;t your labour. The <HI>Parliament</HI> de&s;pi&s;e &s;yco|phanti&s;ing colloguing; (Are you as wi&s;e as that Bird to &s;ee that, it &s;aid?) And on the other &s;ide they do not repent of what honour they conferred on M^r^. <HI>Nye,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">For the Par|liament in wi&s;dom cho&s;e &s;ome Epi&s;co|pall men to be of the A&s;|&s;embly, to plead their own cau&s;e if they could. Some of w^c^h &s;ince ca&s;t out them&s;elves, and others were ca&s;t out.</NOTE> and through him on his brethren of the &s;ame judgement. They could not but think (what ever you dream) but that the five Mini&s;ters were in as neer a capacity to be of the A&s;&s;embly, &amp;c. being native <HI>Engli&s;h-men,</HI> and again&s;t Epi&s;copacie, as either tho&s;e of other Nations, or tho&s;e of our own, in judgement holding for Epi&s;co|pacie; and &s;tanding for the ju&s;t and lawfull authority of Magi&s;tracy as either.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>The Apol. Narration containing (how ever you name it) a &s;ingu|lar de&s;ire of &s;eparation from</HI> them, <HI>that &s;o cheri&s;h you, with &s;ome unworthy nick-names put upon them, who &s;tile you by no wor&s;e names then Brethren.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> What ever names <HI>A. S.</HI> puts upon this his Book, as <HI>Annot. Con&s;id.</HI> Notes &s;ure enough <HI>(Nigro carbone notandus. Hic Niger e&s;t, hunc tu Romane caveto,)</HI> it is not candid, but holds forth <HI>A. S.</HI> his &s;ingular de&s;ire of making divi&s;ion, if he could, either between the <HI>Parliament</HI> and the <HI>Brethren,</HI> or between them and our deare&s;t brethren of <HI>Scotland,</HI> if <HI>M. S.</HI> do rightly divine what he means by them. <HI>God</HI> and <HI>man</HI> hates this thy de&s;ign (O <HI>A. S.</HI>) <HI>Six things the Lord hates, yea, &s;even are abomi|nation to him: Aproud look, a lying tongue, an heart that devi&s;eth wicked imaginations, a fal&s;e witne&s;s, that &s;peaketh lies, him that &s;oweth di&s;cord among brethren, &amp;c.</HI> (for I have named enough for <HI>A. S.</HI> to make his choice.) And I am informed, that the worthy Commi&s;&s;ioners of <HI>Scotland</HI> (nobly done) do utterly di&s;like <HI>A. S.</HI> his Book. From whom we have far more evident and effectuall &s;ymptomes of their cordiall love, then the word <HI>Brethren.</HI> Which with <HI>A. S.</HI> in his Book is nothing but <HI>Complementall
<PB N="15" REF="10">di&s;&s;imulation;</HI> For his Epi&s;tle begins, as it were, with <HI>ki&s;&s;ing,</HI> viz. Right reverend and dear <HI>Brethren.</HI> And his book is biting. So that as he u&s;eth the word <HI>Brethren,</HI> it is much to the &s;ame &s;en&s;e, as a para&s;iticall Mini&s;ter being to preach an odde fellows funerall, did u&s;e the words of that de|cea&s;ed mans Will, viz. <HI>In the name of God, Amen:</HI> (this &s;tory is proper for <HI>A. S.</HI> if he hath any skill in the law, for I cannot yet be certain what he is:) &s;aith the <HI>Prie&s;t</HI> (being put to it for matter for his Trentall Pane|gyrick) <HI>See the devotion of this decea&s;ed brother; he begins his Will, with In the name of God, Amen.</HI> A &s;illy Goo&s;e; for it's as common for all good and bad to begin their Wills &s;o (as <HI>A. S.</HI> knows if a Lawyer) as for <HI>A. S.</HI> to call <HI>Brethren,</HI> and to bawl forth reviling all along his book.</P>
<P>As for the Nick-names <HI>A. S.</HI> chargeth upon the five Mini&s;ters, with which they &s;hould nick-name, I know not whom, he names them not; which makes me think, he hath no skill in Law. He knows that <HI>Dolus latet in univer&s;alibus,</HI> or to u&s;e his own words, <HI>p.</HI> 47. <HI>Sermones generales non movent,</HI> we cannot an&s;wer to generalls; nor can he find them in the Apologie. What a Phari&s;ee may phanta&s;ie, that will not have mens defects intimated as they &s;tand in the crowd of all Chri&s;tendome, I am &s;ure the worthy Commi&s;&s;ioners piou&s;ly confe&s;s <HI>their Churches may be yet further reformed;</HI> and what religious men will not &s;igh forth the &s;ame, touching their own native Countries?</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>What el&s;e have yee done, but erected one A&s;&s;embly in the A&s;&s;embly, by private authority again&s;t publike; taking private re&s;olutions again&s;t publike?</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> O gro&s;s! yet he will follow <HI>Machiavels</HI> coun&s;ell that &s;aid, <HI>Ca|lumniare audacter, aliquid adherebit,</HI> If men mu&s;t not &s;peake, write, or preach any thing that may relate to &s;omething in debate in the A&s;&s;em|bly, then, (as it was excellently &s;poken in <HI>Parliament,</HI>) Mini&s;ters may write and &s;ay nothing at all. Divers print and preach for the Presby|tery, yet of the A&s;&s;embly. Are they all a private particular A&s;&s;embly?</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>Sundry rea&s;ons made me to &s;u&s;pect, that ye would &s;ay more then ye &s;ay.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> And what then? Did you think by this your <HI>Reply,</HI> to hu&s;h them? No readier way to make them or their friends to &s;ay more then either they intended, or you would willingly hear. Yet confe&s;s one truth; <HI>That there hath been two replies to them already, yet they have printed no reply</HI> (that we know of) for that you mean (I &s;uppo&s;e) by &s;aying more. El&s;e, God forbid, but they &s;hould &s;peak, and &s;peak in the A&s;&s;embly too; though one &s;aid, <HI>Hee had much ado to forbear moving to have one of them to be ca&s;t out of the A&s;&s;embly, for propounding his Rea&s;on to the Que&s;tion, to which he was called by order of Parliament.</HI></P>
<P>But for you, <HI>A. S.</HI> you would make a &s;tone &s;peak (as they &s;ay.)
<PB N="16" REF="11">If you believe not the Poet, <HI>Si natura negat, facit indignatio ver&s;um;</HI> yet believe the Scripture:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Eccle&s;. 7.7. <HI>M. R.</HI></NOTE> <HI>Oppre&s;&s;ion would make a wi&s;e man mad.</HI></P>
<P>But let me tell you now of one that is of your judgement for the <HI>Presbyterie,</HI> but by far a more &s;olid and di&s;creet man then your &s;elf, that &s;aid, <HI>There was this good by the Apologie, that therein the five Mini&s;ters had wrapt up them&s;elves, that they could not &s;ay more in &s;ub&s;tance oftener then was there in expre&s;&s;ed. Nor could they recede from that compliance with you they had therein profe&s;&s;ed.</HI> So you &s;ee you <HI>Presbyterians</HI> may differ among your &s;elves, no wonder therefore, if from the five Mini&s;ters.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>I love you all from my heart.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Good Reader, compare this mans book with his heart. And good Writer, (if I do not mi&s;-call thee) judge whether in your book you act the part of a loving <HI>Phy&s;itian,</HI> were your potion never &s;o cor|diall, in that you admini&s;ter it &s;calding hot, though you flatter till it's powred down the throat.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>The will is but a blind faculty.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Now, where is your <HI>Philo&s;ophie?</HI> Is there an unrea&s;onable faculty in the rea&s;onable &s;oul, that hath no light but by participati|on? This is news to con&s;iderate <HI>Philo&s;ophers,</HI> that do not take things upon tru&s;t, by tradition, of &s;peculative untried principles.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>My main aim hath been, Gods glory, and the edification of weak brethren, who may have been mi&s;ted by your mo&s;t learned Di&s;cour&s;e.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Yet this man in his 1 <HI>Annot. pag.</HI> 4. &s;aith, <HI>It comes very &s;hort, is weak and &s;lender, and no way &s;atisfactory.</HI> The man makes nothing of contradictions, upon contradictions; for even here al&s;o is a contra|diction or two more. Are the five Mini&s;ters di&s;cour&s;e mo&s;t learned, and yet errour too, as you &s;aid in the beginning of your Epi&s;tle? And are they mo&s;t learned, and yet le&s;s learned then you?</P>
<P>But indeed (&s;aith one) <HI>Hee makes a great noy&s;e of learning in his book, ratling his Sophi&s;try-terms, &s;o that though hee hath failed in his Divinity, Phy&s;ick, and Philo&s;ophie hitherto, yet hee will make us know that hee is a notable Logician; or he will make our ears ring with unengli&s;hed Ergoes,</HI> with <HI>A genere ad &s;peciem affirmativ&egrave;,</HI> with <HI>A po&s;&s;e ad e&s;&s;e non valet con&s;e|quentia; Non po&s;&s;ibile e&s;t e&s;&s;e,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Page of his book, 53, 54.</NOTE> <HI>po&s;&s;ibile e&s;t non e&s;&s;e, totum, totaliter, materi|aliter, di&s;po&s;itiv&egrave;</HI> with his <HI>modifications, a&s;&s;umptions, &amp;c.</HI> and multitudes of &s;uch lumber to the weake brethren. O, &s;aid one, that &s;ome body would earne&s;tly intreat him to &s;peak &s;eriou&s;ly, whether he thinks in his con&s;cience this to be his direct way to that end hee here profe&s;&s;eth, namely, to <HI>edifie weak Brethren?</HI> Alas, &s;uch things to them, if Engli&s;hed, are but gibberi&s;h, and as charms.</P>
<P><PB N="17" REF="11">
A. S. <HI>E&s;teeming that during the re&s;t of my pilgrimage, which cannot be long, having no other thing to doe, I &s;hall doe well to doe this.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> I'l tell you what one &s;aid to this. <HI>Would God he had rather no pa|tient, then he &s;hould have no patience, then the Church &s;hould be his patient (&s;eeing he hath no more skill in her griefe;) that he had no client, then that he &s;hould be a treacherous Advocate; that he would rather doe nothing, then evill. For it is a &s;ad thing, &s;aid he, that good men neer their end &s;hould write &s;ome &s;orry peece, to be a monument of their declining in their la&s;t dayes, and of their di&s;grace before they are buried.</HI> As a worthy man a little afore his death, wrote in defence of ceremonies, for which formerly he had &s;uffered. A warning to <HI>A. S.</HI> and all good men, that their good works &s;hould be more at la&s;t, and &s;o to leave that character to the hypocrites, as one ob&s;erves, <HI>to live &s;moothly, towards his end to doe &s;orily, and then to die &s;uddenly.</HI></P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="part">
<HEAD>A. S. <HI>HIS CONSIDERATIONS.</HI></HEAD>
<P>M. S. Truly called Interrogatories which A. S. puts to the five Mini|&s;ters, as if he were already gotten into the Chair, &amp;c.</P>
<P>A. S. His fir&s;t Con&s;ideration. Whether in any Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall or Poli|tick A&s;&s;embly of the Chri&s;tian world, wherein things are carried by plu|rality of voices, it be ordinarie for any incon&s;iderable number thereof to joyn in a particular combination among them&s;elves, and therein to take particular re&s;olutions?</P>
<P>M. S. We have heard of &s;ome Parliaments in Europe, that the Hou&s;e of Peeres is &s;o con&s;titute, <HI>that if a vote pa&s;&s;e where &s;omes con&s;ciences amongst them cannot yeeld to, they may mode&s;tly enter in the Hou&s;e their di&s;sent from it.</HI> But whether this be &s;o or not, the five Mini&s;ters did not take particular re&s;olutions and publi&s;h them in print, to cro&s;&s;e the proceedings and Di&s;|putes of the A&s;&s;embly; or &s;tate a que&s;tion yet unre&s;olved by the A&s;&s;em|bly, but onely told the Kingdome <HI>de facto,</HI> what they had held and practi|&s;ed, and therfore in the Apologie &s;peak in the <HI>pa&s;t time,</HI> with &s;ome very few and &s;hort touches upon what ground.</P>
<P>Wherein they declare them&s;elves to clo&s;e nearer with the A&s;&s;embly, were they all Presbyterian (as we know the contrary) then thou&s;ands ever thought they would.</P>
<P>And withall they doe profe&s;&s;e them&s;elves &s;o unwedded to their former practi&s;es, and &s;o far from over-weening their pre&s;ent judgements,<NOTE PLACE="marg">See Apol. p 10. It is their &s;eco~d golden rule by which they walked.</NOTE> that upon di&s;covery of more light, they are mo&s;t willing to open their eyes upon it, and let it in. And therefore you A. S. have done very ill, to di&s;|courage them as much as in you is, from that &s;weetne&s;&s;e of &s;pirit, that hath appeared in all their writings and carriages.</P>
<P>But our main an&s;wer to this your Con&s;ideration (which makes it a gro&s;&s;e incon&s;ideration, if not untruth) is this, That the A&s;&s;embly of them|&s;elves
<PB N="18" REF="12">are not to conclude things by a meer plurality of votes, if you dare beleeve the Ordinance of Parliament, who&s;e words are, <HI>To conferre and treat amongst them&s;elves of &s;uch matters and things touching and concerning the Liturgie,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">O<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="3 letters">in for the calling of the A&s;&s;embly. Page. 4.5.</NOTE> <HI>Di&s;cipline, and Government of the Church of England, or the vindi|cation and clearing of the doctrine of the &s;ame, from all fal&s;e a&s;per&s;ions, and mi&s;|con&s;tructions, as &s;hall be propo&s;ed unto them, by both or either of the &s;aid Hou&s;es of Parliament, and no other, and to deliver their opinions and advices of our touch|ing the matters afore&s;aid, as &s;hall be mo&s;t agreeable to the word of God, to both or either of the &s;aid Hou&s;es from time to time, in &s;uch manner and &s;ort, as by both or either of the &s;aid Hou&s;es of Parliament &s;hall be required.</HI> And <HI>in ca&s;e of diffe|rence of opinion among the &s;aid Divines, they &s;hall pre&s;ent the &s;ame, together with their rea&s;ons thereof, to the Hou&s;es of Parliament.</HI></P>
<P>Which words, be&s;ides confutation of your <HI>pluralitie of voyces,</HI> doe more then allow &s;o much as is done in the Apologeticall Narration, that being but a narration of <HI>pa&s;t things.</HI></P>
<P>A. S. his &s;econd Con&s;ideration, <HI>Whether in taking &s;uch re&s;olutions, they &s;hould not con&s;equently re&s;olve them&s;elves to quit the A&s;&s;embly, and to appear as parties.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> The antecedent was denied before on the fir&s;t Con&s;ideration: therefore the con&s;equence is de&s;troyed. And for the <HI>con&s;equence</HI> or Propo|&s;ition it &s;elfe, of the five <HI>Mini&s;ters</HI> quitting the A&s;&s;embly, and to appeare as parties, for &s;etting forth the Apologie; I utterly di&s;like your motion, as &s;triking at the worthy Commi&s;&s;ioners of Scotland, as if they likewi&s;e &s;hould quit the A&s;&s;embly for replying to the Apologie. Men of a far better &s;pirit then you are. And though they be &s;omewhat ingaged in a &s;etled Presbytery, yet carry them&s;elves more &s;agely and moderatly, then many of our own men; an honour for them, and a &s;hame for us.</P>
<P>A. S. His fourth Con&s;ideration (and for the third vani&s;heth upon our an&s;wer to the fir&s;t and &s;econd) <HI>Whether this Apologeticall Narration was ne|ce&s;&s;ary, when yee found the calumnies, mi&s;takes, mi&s;-apprehen&s;ions of your opini|ons, and mi&s;ts that had gathered about you, or were rather ca&s;t upon your per&s;ons in your ab&s;ence, begin by your pre&s;ence againe, and the ble&s;&s;ing of God upon you, to &s;catter and vani&s;h, without &s;peaking a word for your &s;elves and cau&s;e?</HI></P>
<P><HI>M.</HI> S. Yea it was: For look but to the next full period afore; and you &s;hall find that this you repeat as touching that &s;cattering and vani&s;hing of mi&s;ts, doth but relate to the people, and only to &s;ome of them, <HI>viz. Tho&s;e that profe&s;&s;e or pretend the power of godline&s;s.</HI> The&s;e mens &s;erene &s;pirits onely were the beams that began to &s;catter the mi&s;ts. And therefore the <HI>Apolo|gi&s;ts</HI> &s;peak di&s;tinctly and punctually (and not indefinitely as you) in the words you &s;eem to quote; <HI>viz.</HI> they &s;ay that they found <HI>many</HI> (mark) <HI>ma|ny</HI> of tho&s;e mi&s;ts, not <HI>all;</HI> and did but begin to &s;catter, as you your &s;elfe re|peat.
<PB N="19" REF="12">The Apologi&s;ts &s;ay, They did but <HI>begin</HI> to &s;catter. For in the appre|hen&s;ion of the Apologi&s;ts, their motion was like the lowrings of an incon|&s;tant morning, the mi&s;ts a&s;cend, and anon de&s;cend, and by and by a&s;cend, and turn into a <HI>Scotti&s;h</HI>-mi&s;t, as the <HI>Engli&s;t</HI> Proverb is, <HI>That will wet an Engli&s;h|man to the skin.</HI> The <HI>mi&s;t went up by the hils; but</HI> (as the other Proverb is) <HI>down by the Mils,</HI> they turned into rain.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Apo. pag. 1</NOTE> What mean el&s;e tho&s;e words of the Apologie; <HI>Our ears have been &s;o filled with a &s;udden and unexpected noy&s;e of confu&s;ed exclamations, in the interpretation of mo&s;t reflecting on us, that awakened thereby, we are inforced to anticipate a little that di&s;covery of our &s;elves, which we otherwi&s;e re&s;olved to have left to time.</HI></P>
<P>And tho&s;e words of the Apologie:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Apol. p. 27.</NOTE> <HI>Whereas your &s;ilence upon all the fore|mentioned grounds, hath been by the ill interpretation of &s;ome, imputed either to our con&s;ciou&s;ne&s;s of the badne&s;s and weakne&s;s of our cau&s;e, or to our inability to maintain what we a&s;&s;ert in difference from others, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P>And tho&s;e words of the Apologie;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Apol. p. 31.</NOTE> <HI>Since the change of times from our exile, we have indured that which to our &s;pirits is no le&s;s grievous; the oppo&s;iti|on and reproach of good men, even to the threatning of another bani&s;hment.</HI> No doubt but the Apologi&s;ers know what they &s;ay, and what they can &s;ay, if called to &s;peak out. Be&s;ides, if the people had let them alone, &s;hould &s;eem &s;ome Mini&s;ters would not. O, it was an unhappy Anticipation (O, if the will of God had been to have prevented it) that in the very nick, be|fore the A&s;&s;embly met, that two Books &s;hould fore&s;tall the Market, the one penned by a learned <HI>Scot,</HI> and the other by a learned <HI>Engli&s;h-man,</HI> that &s;et the tongues of men &s;o a wame.</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, to vomit out upon the five Mini&s;ters Tenet, and next to a&s;per&s;e their per&s;ons, before the A&s;&s;embly had made one Syllogi&s;me, <HI>Hinc illae la|chrymae.</HI> Hence the Apologie (poor meek thing) was forced to &s;peak; and thereupon <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;o fiercly breathed (I had almo&s;t &s;aid brayed) out again&s;t it &s;o many bitter words.</P>
<P><HI>A. S.</HI> tels us in this his 4^t^h Con&s;ideration, <HI>of the honour the Parliament &s;h<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">wed the Apologi&s;ts, in calling them to be members of the A&s;&s;embly,</HI> which was enough to ju&s;tifie their per&s;ons from all a&s;per&s;ions, without any Apologie.</P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> To this we an&s;wer; That they and their friends will ever ac|knowledge the Honourable <HI>Parliaments</HI> great re&s;pect to them. And &s;o much the more, in the&s;e times wherein great <HI>A. S.</HI> and little, &amp;c. do &s;o la|bour to render them odious. But I think I &s;hould not cro&s;s the &s;en&s;e of the <HI>Parliament</HI> if I &s;hould not make it an univer&s;all <HI>major</HI> propo&s;ition: That all whom the Honourable <HI>Parliament</HI> &s;hall call to be members of the A&s;&s;em|bly, are <HI>ip&s;o facto</HI> vindicated from all a&s;per&s;ions; and &s;o to conclude, that all Epi&s;copall Prelaticall men that in life and practi&s;e have been&mdash;if they &s;hould be called to be of the A&s;&s;embly, were <HI>eo nomine</HI> vindicated from all
<PB N="20" REF="13">a&s;per&s;ions. I am &s;ure <HI>de facto</HI> that &s;ome very learned men were called by the &s;weet indulgence of the honourable <HI>Parliament</HI> for the common good to be Members of the grave A&s;&s;embly, who &s;ince upon better knowledge of them, are by the <HI>Parliament</HI> purged out of the A&s;&s;embly (a good ridde, the A&s;&s;embly is the better for their ab&s;ence) and &s;ome are at <HI>Oxford,</HI> &s;ee how <HI>ter&s;e</HI> they be; and &s;ome in pri&s;on, &s;ee how their member&s;hip of the A&s;&s;embly have vindicated them. Be &s;ure of it, that the choice of men for the A&s;&s;embly was to find men good, not to make them &s;o. And two wor|thy <HI>Parliament</HI> men of a County may not know at fir&s;t all the faults in every Town, or the lint on every black coat. And therefore &s;ince that, the worthy <HI>Parliament</HI> hath well bru&s;ht &s;ome.</P>
<P>If the <HI>Parliament</HI> put never &s;o much honour upon the five Mini&s;ters in calling them to the A&s;&s;embly; yet &s;ince many have a&s;per&s;ed them, or &s;ome laboured how to make them odious to Kingdoms and Nations, and who but the order of <HI>A. S.</HI> mainly in&s;tigating? And therefore this fully an&s;wers to your la&s;t <HI>Quere</HI> in your fourth <HI>Con&s;ideration.</HI> Whether this Apologie was nece&s;&s;ary after the fir&s;t cloud was neer over? every night mu&s;t be cleared by a new ri&s;e of the Sun.</P>
<P><HI>A. S.</HI> his 5^t^h Con&s;ideration, &s;aith, That <HI>the five Mini&s;ters do blame</HI> all <HI>Prote&s;tant Churches as not having the power of godline&s;s, and the profe&s;&s;ion there|of, with difference from carnall and formall Chri&s;tians, advanced and held forth among them as among</HI> you, <HI>which is commonly thought to be particularly intended again&s;t the</HI> Scots.</P>
<P><HI>M.</HI> S. Sure it is no otherwi&s;e commonly thought to be particularly in|tended again&s;t the <HI>Scots;</HI> and generally to blame all Prote&s;tant Churches, then in or by your common &s;en&s;e deriving <HI>&s;pecies,</HI> vain &s;eemings to your phanta&s;ie, from your outward &s;en&s;es an evill eye ill affected. For the Apologie calls our dear brethren the <HI>Scots,</HI> the more reformed Churches. And for the words <HI>all,</HI> and <HI>among you,</HI> whereby you would pre&s;ent them &s;etting them&s;elves as an oppo&s;ite member of di&s;tinction to all Prote&s;tant Churches, and blaming them all as undi&s;tingui&s;hed from carnall and for|mall Chri&s;tians, in compari&s;on of them and their five Churches; the words <HI>all</HI> and <HI>you,</HI> are forged and foy&s;ted in by your &s;elf, and &s;o mu&s;t go for very fal&s;hoods charged upon them.<NOTE PLACE="marg">Apol. p. 4.</NOTE> The words of the Apologie are, 1. <HI>That they, and many others had but ob&s;erved touching the non-advance of the power of godline&s;s, &amp;c.</HI> among &s;ome, <HI>what them&s;elves had generally acknowledged.</HI> The five Mini&s;ters do not charge it, but repeat it as confe&s;&s;ed by them&s;elves. 2. It is not &s;aid it was confe&s;&s;ed, and they ob&s;erved there was <HI>no</HI> power of godline&s;s, but is was not <HI>advanced.</HI> 3. Nor is it &s;aid it was <HI>not advanced,</HI> but not advanced <HI>as in this our I&s;land.</HI> This <HI>I&s;land</HI> being a common phra&s;e, yea, and your phra&s;e too in the title of your Book, to &s;ignifie <HI>Scotland</HI> and <HI>England</HI> both.</P>
<P><PB N="21" REF="13">
And then where is that particular intendment again&s;t Scotland; or the five Mini&s;ters laying their Churches in the ballance again&s;t other Chur|ches?</P>
<P>Fourthly and la&s;tly, they &s;peake but <HI>indefinitely</HI> in a contingent matter, and therefore can bee con&s;trued but of &s;ome particulars; and therefore did not ayme at <HI>all.</HI> You know how highly they e&s;teeme of <HI>New-England,</HI> and therefore that is not excluded from the advance of the power of go<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">|line&s;&s;e, as in this I&s;land of great Britaine Engli&s;h and Scots are included. However, as no man that is a knowing man either by hear&s;ay or travell over the next Sea, will accu&s;e Scotland as mo&s;t carnall and formall (it were well for the world if in that, &amp;c. others had not farre exceeded them) &s;o none of us, except Phari&s;ees, will excu&s;e our Nations of remi&s;|ne&s;&s;e in advancing the power of godline&s;&s;e in apparent view above carna|litie and formalitie.</P>
<P>You &s;ee by our an&s;wer to the Apologie, that not that Apologie but your <HI>will</HI> cau&s;ed you to &s;peake that which is not by wi&s;e men once to bee mentioned at this time, as if the Apologi&s;ts intended to &s;ay any the lea&s;t thing to grieve our brethren the Scots.</P>
<P><HI>A. S.</HI> his &s;eventh Con&s;ideration (for the &s;ixth is non-&s;en&s;e, unle&s;&s;e we put the interrogatorie point at Anabapti&s;ts, and &s;o <HI>A. S.</HI> to take unto him and them, hee ranks him&s;elfe with all, calling them <HI>us,</HI> I &s;ay, to take to him and them the Browni&s;ts and Anabapti&s;ts to be of his partie. Reader, view his &s;ixth Con&s;ideration, whether you can make &s;en&s;e of it, I cannot, nor any thing of con&s;equence; therefore an&s;wer not unto it) his &s;eventh Con&s;ideration, I &s;ay, interrogates thus: <HI>Many are de&s;irous to know whe|ther this Apologeticall Narration publi&s;hed by you five alone, be in the name of your five alone, or of all tho&s;e al&s;o, or a part of tho&s;e whom ye pretend to hold your tenets: if in the name of you five onely, whether ye five can arrogate a power unto you &s;elves to maintaine the&s;e tenets as the con&s;tant opinion of all your Churches; having no generall confe&s;&s;ion of their faith thereabouts. If in the name of all the re&s;t, we de&s;ire you would &s;hew your Commi&s;&s;ion from all your Churches, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Good Reader doe but turne about the&s;e interrogatories, and put them to <HI>A. S.</HI> and put <HI>A. S.</HI> in &s;tead of the five Mini&s;ters, and you may kill <HI>Goliah</HI> with his owne &s;word; if five Mini&s;ters have arrogated in the Apol. one <HI>A. S.</HI> much more in his Reply. If <HI>A. S.</HI> doth not like the conver&s;ion; we an&s;wer po&s;itively.</P>
<P N="1">1. It's no arrogating for any Chri&s;tian upon ju&s;t occa&s;ion to make his confe&s;&s;ion of faith.</P>
<P N="2">2. The confe&s;&s;ion of faith in doctrine that is in all the be&s;t reformed Churches is theirs; For one touching pure Di&s;cipline, it was not found in Scotland whiles the tyrannie of the Bi&s;hops prevailed. Whiles things
<PB N="22" REF="14">are in <HI>fieri,</HI> a wi&s;e man will not expect them <HI>in facto e&s;&s;e.</HI> Faith may bee when confe&s;&s;ion dares not appeare. <HI>A. S.</HI> is angry with that confe&s;&s;ion of faith in the Apologie, and hath opened the mouthes of many others (as we heare) ready to barke too at it, they doe but &s;tay their turnes, why then doth he call for more confe&s;&s;ion?</P>
<P N="3">3. The godly learned Fathers, <HI>Tertullian, Ju&s;tin Martyr, &amp;c.</HI> pro|duced no authority from men to Apologize for the truth; the Scripture they Apologized for, bore them out.</P>
<P N="4">4. The Parliament allow the five Mini&s;ters more, <HI>viz.</HI> to &s;hew their rea&s;ons; therefore the le&s;&s;e, to &s;hew their opinion.</P>
<P N="5">5. A thou&s;and and a thou&s;and good Chri&s;tians were glad to heare how the five Mini&s;ters di&s;&s;ented from the rigid Separation, and clo&s;ed with the be&s;t reformed Churches (the &s;ole bu&s;ine&s;&s;e of the Apologie in effect) and thought that no good Prote&s;tants would have beene &s;orry for them.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>His eight Con&s;id. interrogates the five Mini&s;ters thus; Whether yee de&s;ire a toleration for you five alone in</HI> your (<HI>marke</HI> your) <HI>Religion, for all the re&s;t? Item, if a toleration in publick, in erecting of Churches apart? or to live qui|etly without troubling of the State? As for the last, appearingly ye may have it un&s;ought. But for the re&s;t, the Parliament is wi&s;e enough, and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> An Apologie for the Apologi&s;ts Church-way. Toleration, pro|perly &s;o called, is (&s;aith learned <HI>Capel</HI>) of things unlawfull: His words are, <HI>The Law I know permitted u&s;ury to the Jewes, to the &s;tranger, what of that?</HI> It followes the rather, <HI>yet it is of it &s;elfe a &s;inne, becau&s;e permi&s;&s;ion is of &s;innes, not of duties.</HI> Cap. Tempt. of V&s;ury. We are not, friend <HI>A.S.</HI> come to that yet. To yeeld the one, or beg the other. Wee challenge it as your duty that are Prote&s;tants, to allow us our liberty that are Prote&s;tants, and hold with you, in Doctrine and Di&s;cipline, al&s;o in <HI>&s;ub&s;tance;</HI> the difference be|ing <HI>an accident.</HI> 1. The <HI>quantitie;</HI> you would have it extended to <HI>Col|loquies, provinciall Cla&s;&s;es, &amp;c.</HI> over every Church, which appeares not in Scripture, either name or thing. Wee would have it bounded within e|very particular Church made up to competent hundreds, with a &s;uffi|ciencie of Church Officers for parts and number. And 2. <HI>Nece&s;sity</HI> of con|&s;traint, for in appeales you would cite and con&s;traine men to appeare be|fore the &s;aid <HI>Colloquies</HI> &amp; <HI>Cla&s;&s;es, &amp;c.</HI> For which there is not the lea&s;t in the Scriptures; we would have a free voluntary recour&s;e out of con&s;cience to the brotherly advi&s;e of neighbour Churches, or a Synod, dogmatically to declare Chri&s;ts minde unto us, and in ca&s;e of refu&s;all to &s;ubmit to their judgement, having no ground in Scripture to refu&s;e; the Advi&s;ing Chur|ches to renounce communion with the offending Church; and the particular Church to pronounce <HI>excommunication</HI> again&s;t their offending
<PB N="23" REF="14">brother. So that the difference is not in <HI>ente, &s;ed modo:</HI> not in the <HI>thing,</HI> but the <HI>manner</HI> rather. We &s;ay therefore, it is your duty to give us our own, our liberty, as much (if not more) as we to let you alone, whiles both parties avouch that they are unconvinced as yet, of a po&s;&s;ibility of a neerer agreement. We know not of the lea&s;t clau&s;e of a &s;entence, or peece of an example in all the Scriptures, for any to con&s;train mens con&s;ciences by outward violence, po&s;itively to act contrary to their principles con&s;ci|entiou&s;ly held, or for any to yeeld thereunto. We have many pa&s;&s;ages to the contrary in Scripture.</P>
<P>The <HI>Amorites</HI> gently intreated <HI>Abraham</HI> and his family, and were confederate with them, Gen. 14.13. So did the <HI>Phili&s;tines,</HI> or men of <HI>Gerar,</HI> Gen. 20. And before both, the <HI>Egiptians,</HI> Gen. 12.19. So did the men of <HI>Gerar</HI> deale with <HI>I&s;aac, Gen.</HI> 26. The <HI>Sechemites</HI> &s;aid they would kindly intreat <HI>Jacob</HI> and his &s;ons, becau&s;e they were peaceable, Gen. 34.20, &amp;c. The <HI>Egiptians</HI> appoint <HI>Go&s;hen</HI> for the I&s;raelites, to dwell peace|ably in the mid&s;t of Egypt. The <HI>Chaldeans</HI> or <HI>Babylonians</HI> at length allow the Jewes the libertie of their religion, with all accommodations there|unto, <HI>Nehem.</HI> and <HI>Ezra</HI> throughout. Compare 2 Chron. 36. The <HI>Ro|mans</HI> likewi&s;e bare with the Jewes, and their Judai&s;me for many yeares both before and after Chri&s;ts time. How much more therefore &s;hould <HI>Prote&s;tants</HI> beare with <HI>Prote&s;tants,</HI> who have &s;pent their e&s;tates and blood in winning their joint liberty from the common enemy, Athei&s;ts, Papi&s;ts, Neuters, Prelats, &amp;c. Chri&s;ts rule is to win men by in&s;truction, and not to force men with de&s;truction in matters of religion, Matth. 10.14, 15. &amp; v. 27, 28. <HI>Luke</HI> 9.54. 1 Cor. 7.23. 2 Tim. 2.24, 25. &amp; 2 Tim. 4.1, 2, 3, 4. with infinite more places. Nor doe we find in Scripture per&s;ecution to be rai&s;ed by the Iewi&s;h Church again&s;t Religion, but onely when the divinely in&s;tituted ceremonies, which had got &s;uch e&s;teem in the Iewes hearts, were about to be taken downe by the preaching of the libertie of the Go&s;pel, and a &s;pirituall wor&s;hip, unknown as yet to the whole world. For in the Iewi&s;h Church before, and in Chri&s;t and the Apo&s;tles times, 1. were the <HI>Sadduces,</HI> Matth. 16.1. who denied the re&s;urrection, Angels and Spirits, Acts 23.8. 2. The <HI>Phari&s;ees,</HI> Matth. 23. who (though they confe&s;&s;ed tho&s;e) held Fate, Free-will, and humane Traditions.<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>See</HI> Io&s;eph. lib. <HI>3.</HI> and Chem. in exam. Conc. Trident. part. p. <HI>20. on 1 Tim. 5.23. 1 Tim. 4.3. Colo&s;&s;. 2.</HI></NOTE> 3. The <HI>A&s;&s;ideans, Cha&s;idim,</HI> or <HI>Good men,</HI> Rom. 5.7. (which <HI>A&s;&s;ideans</HI> mentioned in the <HI>Apocrypha,</HI> 1 Maccab. 7.13. are tran&s;lated by <HI>Jo&s;eph,</HI> <GAP DESC="foreign">, <HI>Good men,</HI> lib. 12. cap. 16.) who &s;tudied to adde to the Scriptures, and profe&s;&s;ed to be holy above the law. 4. The <HI>E&s;&s;enes,</HI> who held it un|lawfull to drink wine, forbad marriage, and commanded tho&s;e <HI>dogmata,</HI> (therefore Colo&s;&s;. 2. the Apo&s;tle u&s;eth <GAP DESC="foreign">, and <GAP DESC="foreign">, being the <HI>E&s;&s;eans</HI> words) <HI>Touch not, ta&s;t not, handle not;</HI> becau&s;e the junior <HI>E&s;|&s;eans</HI>
<PB N="24" REF="15">might not touch the Elders or Seniors, nor might ta&s;t, &s;ave onely bread, &s;alt, water, and hy&s;&s;op. 5. The <HI>Pythagoreans,</HI> who held that the &s;oule of the la&s;t departed, ro&s;e in the body of the next that was born. <HI>Herod</HI> &s;e<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ms to be of this opinion, <HI>Mat.</HI> 14.1, 2. See the <HI>Genevanotes</HI> on that place; yet we find no publick per&s;ecution rai&s;ed by the Jewi&s;h Church a|gain&s;t the&s;e, or of the&s;e one again&s;t another. So in the Church of <HI>Corinth</HI> were divers odde, and &s;ome dangerous opinions, as doubting of the re|&s;urrection to come, conceiving it to be pa&s;t already, yet no per&s;ecution moved again&s;t them. So in the Church of <HI>Galatia,</HI> &s;o in the 7. Churches of <HI>A&s;ia.</HI> The Churches force not them that are <HI>without,</HI> by per&s;ecution, but are rebuked for not excommunicating, or neglect of convincing and re|proving them that are <HI>within.</HI> For later times, if the <HI>Turks</HI> allow <HI>Chri&s;ti|ans</HI> that are peaceable, the liberty of their con&s;cience, both <HI>Greeks, Eng|li&s;h,</HI> &amp;c. and the <HI>Spaniards, Germans,</HI> &amp;c. permit the <HI>Jewes;</HI> no wonder if the <HI>Low-countrey-men</HI> permit &s;everall opinions of Prote&s;tants among them. We are wor&s;e then the <HI>Indians,</HI> if we &s;hould not deale kindly with or|thodox Chri&s;tians.</P>
<P>We ju&s;tly abhor the ten per&s;ecutions, again&s;t the inju&s;tice whereof <HI>A|ri&s;tides, Ju&s;tinus, Mileto Sarden&s;is, Apollinaris, Athenagoras, Tertullianus,</HI> and others wrote Apologies in behalfe of Chri&s;tian religion. And we ju&s;tly abhor the <HI>Spani&s;h inqui&s;ition,</HI> the <HI>Engli&s;h Marian per&s;ecutions,</HI> and the Bi|&s;hops high Commi&s;&s;ion; again&s;t all which many worthy men have writ learnedly. And we have &s;een the event of endevouring to force con&s;cience in matter of opinion or wor&s;hip. On the one &s;ide, in <HI>England</HI> it made many thou&s;ands of hypocrits, Church-papi&s;ts, time-&s;ervers, &amp;c. And on the other &s;ide, in <HI>Holland</HI> and <HI>Scotland</HI> it ju&s;tly cau&s;ed State-in&s;urrections; and for the &s;ame rea&s;on wee al&s;o are legally now up in arms to obtaine a&s;&s;urance that we &s;hall have the liberty of con&s;cience and law.</P>
<P>I &s;peak not this as if on the one hand I did now charge this upon the in|tentions of the State, God forbid. <HI>His meliora &s;per<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">.</HI> But onely I &s;ea&s;onably an&s;wer <HI>A.S.</HI> and prevent what I can anyes turning <HI>A. S&s;ians</HI> in their opi|nions or in&s;tigations. I hope it &s;hall never be known in the world, that ever any per&s;ecuted the mi&s;called-<HI>Separati&s;ts</HI> or <HI>Independents,</HI> that are &s;ound in opinion, pure in di&s;cipline, and holy in practice, &s;ave onely Pa|pi&s;ts and Prelaticall men. The&s;e were the fir&s;t, and I hope &s;hall be the la&s;t that ever per&s;ecuted the Saints of the mo&s;t high. Nor on the other hand do I &s;peak this as to intimate that I aprove a toleration of the broach|ing of all opinions, or any toleration of &s;ome practi&s;es.</P>
<P N="1">1. The lea&s;t venting of any <HI>opinion</HI> again&s;t fundamentalls; as <HI>Judai&s;me,</HI> denying Chri&s;t to be the true <HI>M<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;&s;ias; Arriani&s;me</HI> and <HI>Sociniani&s;me,</HI> oppo&s;ing the Deity of Je&s;us Chri&s;t; <HI>Arminiani&s;me,</HI> that que&s;tions the
<PB N="25" REF="15">per&s;on of the Holy Gho&s;t: <HI>Papi&s;me,</HI> holding Ju&s;tification by works; or that <HI>Anabapti&s;me</HI> that denies the derivation of <HI>Adams</HI> originall corrupti|on to us, and the power of Chri&s;ts grace to be conveyed to us without any &s;pirituall power of our free will, (fal&s;ly &s;uppo&s;ed to be in us) or of the like <HI>opinions,</HI> ought to be &s;uppre&s;&s;ed by due proportion, to that rule <HI>That no man,</HI> or <HI>Prophet,</HI> &amp;c. <HI>might intice his kindred, friend,</HI> or <HI>neigh|bour to Idolatry, on pain of death,</HI> Deut. 13.1. to 12. much le&s;s is the <HI>practice</HI> of Idolatry or any impiety by proportion to the prohibition of bla&s;phemy on pain of death, <HI>Levit.</HI> 24.11. to be tolerated. Yet to pre|vent Idolatry, the &s;word may be taken up, <HI>Jo&s;h.</HI> 22.11. <HI>Negatively,</HI> the outward act, either of &s;peaking &s;uch evill opinions, or doing &s;uch evill facts, may be re&s;trained, and yet no violence done to the con&s;cience to act contrary to it's inward dictates and per&s;wa&s;ion, being not yet con|vinced they are evill. This being only a &s;u&s;pen&s;ion and intermi&s;&s;ion of the outward man from acting towards others, not a coaction or &s;ub|ver&s;ion of the inward acts of judgement and under&s;tanding in him&s;elf. And &s;o <HI>Jewes,</HI> or <HI>&amp;c.</HI> may be permitted among Chri&s;tians; &s;o as they do not manife&s;t their errors and defiance again&s;t the fundamentall truths; that &s;o they may hear, and believe, and be converted, or how el&s;e &s;hall they be won to the truth; and the promi&s;e of God fulfilled touching their call?</P>
<P N="2">2. The &s;preading and practi&s;ing of opinions that apparently tend to Libertine-licencious ungodline&s;s, ought not quietly to be permitted. They cannot be &s;uffered, but with &s;inne and reproof from Chri&s;t to the &s;ufferers of them, <HI>Rev.</HI> 2. <HI>v.</HI> 14. to <HI>v.</HI> 21. where two Churches, <HI>viz. Per|gamos,</HI> and <HI>Thyatir<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">,</HI> are charged with &s;inne, and reproved by Chri&s;t for <HI>having among them</HI> and <HI>&s;uffering Balaamiues, Nicolaitans,</HI> and <HI>Jeza|bellians</HI> to vent &s;uch opinions, <HI>viz.</HI> 1. That under pretence of liberty and charity, wives were to be common. 2. Vnder pretence of avoiding &s;candals and perils, it was lawfull for Chri&s;tians to be pre&s;ent at the the &s;acred things, Idolatries and joyiall banquettings of <HI>Pagans,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>V<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">de Port.</HI> in 2 Revel</NOTE> as things indifferent. The&s;e in the Churches ought to have been excom|municated (if refractory) out of the Churches. The&s;e, not of any Church (if they will not be convinced by conference with the Churches) ought to be re&s;trained from their evill practi&s;es by the Magi&s;trate, accor|ding to the examples of the pious Kings reforming abu&s;es, upon the ground of <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> penning of <HI>politiq<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">e</HI> laws to puni&s;h them that could not be accounted meet members of a Church, for their lewd lives.</P>
<P N="3">3. For tho&s;e opinions that are neither again&s;t fundamentals, nor tend to licenciou&s;ne&s;s; but &s;t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ive to beat out truths, thereby to creep clo&s;er to the rule, to walk more evenly, in the path, both of Doctrine
<PB N="26" REF="16">and Di&s;cipline; and will in both by a &s;trict bond <HI>amongst them&s;elves</HI> walk as exactly as by any power Eccle&s;ia&s;tical <HI>without them,</HI> &s;et above them a (their own wil<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> &s;hall be in &s;tead of others lawes) I &s;ay, &s;uch opinions are not to be re&s;trained, either from all divulging or practi&s;ing, that wee can finde by any Scripture. We wave the que&s;tion now; <HI>Which is the only true form of Di&s;cipline?</HI> and put the ca&s;e in generall, <HI>What opinions and practices that are con&s;cienciou&s;ly taken up ought to be left unre&s;trained?</HI> To which our an&s;wer is, that this &s;ort here are they; or el&s;e how &s;hall there be a <HI>trying all things,</HI> a <HI>trying of the &s;pirits,</HI> a di&s;covery of new light and <HI>pre&s;ent truths</HI> prophe&s;ied to be revealed in their &s;everall periods of times? If any be con|trary-minded, we &s;hall be glad to hear their grounds; till they produce tho&s;e, and make them clear to the Churches, wee ask our due, a quiet per|mi&s;&s;ion to injoy that liberty which Chri&s;t hath bought, and the Go&s;pel brought; and not to be jeered by any <HI>A. S.</HI> as here; who tells the five Mini&s;ters that to live quietly without troubling the State, they may have it appearingly un&s;ought. Let the world judge, whether here be not a &s;aucy jeer, both in matter and form of &s;peech. I would <HI>A. S.</HI> had made u&s;e of that toleration, and then he had not &s;o intolerably troubled a Kingdome, Or el&s;e if he had no &s;tomack at fir&s;t to be quiet, if for &s;ome days he had but had &s;omewhat <HI>appearingly</HI> allowed him to bite upon, &s;omewhat <HI>appearingly</HI> to quench his thir&s;t, he would have had a &s;tomack rather to eat and drink, then bite and jeere. He is &s;o pa&s;&s;ionate, that hee doth not remember what he &s;ays in one page, &s;o as it may be reconciled to another. Here he &s;aith, <HI>the Parliament is wi&s;e enough, and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God:</HI> (you may perceive his meaning by reading his Interrogatory) yet in his Annotation upon the in&s;cript of the Apologie, <HI>pag. 5. He &s;uppo&s;eth that the Parliament &s;hould arrogate, if it &s;hould take upon it any directive power in mat|ters of Religion.</HI> If he hath any Schola&s;tick quillet to reconcile this within him&s;elf, it is more then the common people and <HI>weak brethren</HI> he writes to know of.</P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Note that A. S. <HI>bath one Con&s;ideration more; But were it not that it it did an&s;wer it &s;elf, I &s;hould have been too weary of his former incon&s;iderate con|&s;iderations to have &s;taid here, being eager to come to his book.</HI></P>
<P N="1">1. He &s;aith, that they ayme at <HI>&s;eparation</HI> (he meanes the five Mini&s;ters, though they di&s;claime it in their Apologie, unle&s;&s;e to &s;eparate as our bre|thren the Scots did from Prelaticall coaction) &s;hould <HI>tolerate &s;ome &s;mall pretended defects</HI> (they are but <HI>pretended</HI>) yet he &s;aith not <HI>approved</HI> by tho&s;e from whom they de&s;ire to &s;eparate.</P>
<P N="2">2. He &s;aith, the Church (from which the five Mini&s;ters would &s;epa|rate) te&s;tifies a great de&s;ire to reforme <HI>defects,</HI> yet tho&s;e defects, &s;aith he, are but <HI>pretended</HI> to be in it.</P>
<P N="3"><PB N="27" REF="16">
3. Hee thinkes that the five Mini&s;ters &s;hould doe better to &s;tay in the Church, to reforme abu&s;es, then by &s;eparation to let the Church peri&s;h in abu&s;es. Now he &s;uppo&s;eth, <HI>de&s;troying abu&s;es;</HI> and would have the five Mini&s;ters &s;tay to helpe reforme; yet he is angry with their Apologie, that doth but &s;igh forth an intimation of neede of reformation. And &s;o angry that he would (as ye heard in his &s;econd con&s;ideration, its &s;o long &s;ince that he hath forgotten it) have the five Mini&s;ters quit the A&s;&s;embly.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="part">
<HEAD><HI>A. S.</HI> his Annotations upon the in&s;cription of the Apologi&s;ts Narration.</HEAD>
<P><HI>M.S.</HI> If I thought <HI>A.S.</HI> had any skill in Phy&s;ick, I would aske him whe|ther by <HI>Annotations,</HI> he meanes, as the Phy&s;itians &s;peake, <HI>Annotationes in|compre&s;&s;as, becticarum febrium indicia,</HI> violent annotations are &s;ig<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">es of an hectick feaver in his vitall parts.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>All Apologies &s;uppo&s;e &s;ome accu&s;ation, which here appeares none.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Not to meddle with your Eng<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">i&s;h, which is &s;car&s;e grammaticall, you are intreated to &s;peake true. Doth not the Apologie begin and end with &s;ad complaints? Remember our an&s;wer to your fourth Con&s;idera|tion.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>If intended for an An&s;wer to that which hath been written again&s;t your opinions, it comes very &s;hort, weake, and &s;lender.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Why then would you fight with a fly? The Mou&s;e told the Ele|phant, that he would never get honour in killing a &s;illy Mou&s;e. Why did you be&s;tow &s;o much Oratorie and Logicke, to clap it and fi&s;ticuffe it?</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>Neither is it a meere Apologeticall Narration, but al&s;o a grievous accu|&s;ation again&s;t all our Churches, as de&s;titute of the power of godline&s;&s;e.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> This indeede is a fal&s;e accu&s;ation, as we have cleered it in our An&s;wer to your fi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">t Con&s;ideration.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>The Apologie &s;aith, humbly &s;ubmitted &amp;c. So humbly &s;ubmitted to the honourable Hou&s;es of Parliament, as if they &s;ubmit not them&s;elves to your de&s;ires, &amp;c. for any thing I can &s;ee, yee &s;eem no wayes minded to &s;ubmit your &s;elves to theirs.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> I am &s;orry your eyes &s;hould be &s;o dim, or your &s;elfe &s;o to doat. All indifferent men can &s;ee in the Apologie abundance of propen&s;itie to &s;ubmit to them according to truth; farre more then there is in one <HI>A. S.</HI> to &s;ubmit to five Mini&s;ters, who&s;e holine&s;&s;e you admire, and who&s;e lear|ning you extoll.</P>
<P>A. S. <HI>You being Divines, ye &s;hould rather fir&s;t have con&s;ulted with the A&s;|&s;embly of Divines, your brethren, then &s;o</HI> ex abrupto <HI>gone to the Civill Magi|&s;trate, that arrogates not to him&s;elfe any directive power in matters of Religion,
<PB N="28" REF="17">this is more convenient to the &s;pirit and power of godline&s;&s;e, that the &s;pirit of the Prophets in &s;uch matters &s;hould be &s;ubject to the Prophets, then unto the &s;pirit of the Civill Magi&s;trate.</HI></P>
<P><HI>M. S.</HI> Marke how this fellow A. S. 1. &s;uppo&s;eth it arrogancie in the Parliament to have any directive power in matters of Religion, in ca&s;e the A&s;&s;embly (which God forbid) &s;hould mi&s;take. Surely by this bold ex|pre&s;&s;ion he would not have the Parliament judge of the rea&s;ons of the A&s;&s;embly in ca&s;e of di&s;&s;ent. Lea&s;t of all doth A. S. con&s;ider that the Par|liament are Members of many excellent Churches; That they laid downe the Common Prayer book in their hou&s;es before &s;ome Presbyterians could &s;ee rea&s;on to doe &s;o. That the Parliament &s;o looked on the A&s;&s;embly cho|&s;en by them, as not to take things meerely upon tru&s;t, but &s;ee with their owne eyes.</P>
<P N="2">2. He dreamingly &s;uppo&s;eth that either our A&s;&s;embly is like the A&s;|&s;embly of Scotland for breadth and &s;trength; or el&s;e hee takes them for <HI>a Church,</HI> and in the act of prophe&s;ying; which la&s;t I wonder A. S. being a rank Presbyterian &s;hould in the lea&s;t allow of, and call the five Mini&s;ters to the rule thereof.</P>
<P N="3">3. A. S. &s;uppo&s;eth that it is le&s;&s;e convenient to the power of godline&s;s for the wronged five Mini&s;ters to appeale to the Civill Magi&s;trate in Par|liament.</P>
<P N="4">4. <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;uppo&s;eth, that becau&s;e the Parliament have cho&s;en the <HI>A&s;&s;em|bly,</HI> that therefore &s;ome men in &s;ome ca&s;es at lea&s;t, &s;hould wave the Parli|ament, and goe to the <HI>A&s;&s;embly.</HI> This is <HI>A. S.</HI> his fine intimation prompted to all &s;candalous and fal&s;e teaching erroneous Mini&s;ters, to take up and learne, in their ca&s;es relating to Religion, to wave the Parliament, and to goe to the <HI>A&s;&s;embly.</HI></P>
<P N="5">5. <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;uppo&s;eth that the <HI>A&s;&s;embly</HI> would bee &s;o unwi&s;e (&s;ee what a &s;illy fellow <HI>A. S.</HI> is) as to goe beyond their Ordinance, to judge one an|ther. When as they will take upon them no &s;uch thing, not &s;o much as to ca&s;t out, or take in one member, without the Parliament: much le&s;&s;e will they judge per&s;ons that &s;hall wrong the five Mini&s;ters that are not of the A&s;&s;embly.</P>
<P>The re&s;t of his Annotations on the In&s;cription are but meare paper blots, and therefore I omit them.</P>
</DIV2>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="preface">
<PB N="29" REF="17">
<HEAD><HI>A Preface to the</HI> READER, <HI>by way of</HI> Intro|duction, to the in&s;uing part of the <HI>Di&s;cour&s;e,</HI> which re&s;pecteth the Book it &s;elf.</HEAD>
<OPENER><SALUTE>READER,</SALUTE></OPENER>
<P>_HAving diligently peru&s;ed the <HI>Cacologeticall</HI> or rough com|mentaries of <HI>A. S.</HI> upon the &s;mooth <HI>Apologeticall</HI> Narra|tion of the five Mini&s;ters, I finde the greate&s;t difficulty, that hee is like to encounter, who by a &s;ober An&s;wer &s;hall de&s;ire to make the world amends for that injury, which that writing hath done it, is this, how to make his an&s;wer &s;oft' enough. For the truth is, that here is much more anger or pa&s;&s;ion, then rea&s;on, to turn away, and the Wi&s;eman informs us, that it is <HI>A &s;oft An&s;wer that turneth away wrath,</HI> Prov. 15.1. If <HI>A. S.</HI> could be but redeemed out of the hand of that great jealou&s;ie, wherewith he burns over his pre&s;ent apprehen&s;ions <HI>in re Presbyterali,</HI> though all the arguments, and &s;trength of di&s;cour&s;e, wherewith his judgement is &s;upported therein, were left intire to him, he would be found in a &s;ufficient po&s;ture him&s;elf, to do him&s;elf the right of giving &s;atisfaction unto the world, for the wrong he hath done it, in that di&s;cour&s;e, and to make his atonement with his own pen. Though in many ca&s;es Anger is able to do more then rea&s;on can un|do; yet in matter of argument or writing, the little finger of a mans rea|&s;on is commonly able to pull down what the loins of his pa&s;&s;ion hath in a tumultuary way and method built up. Any man that &s;hall but diligently ob&s;erve the endle&s;s variety and multitude of keen expo&s;tulations, impe|rious interrogations, the importune, peremptory, and in&s;ulting charges, criminations and a&s;per&s;ions, the wrigglings, wringings, wre&s;tings, wran|glings, the &s;trainings, &s;tretchings, &s;tingings, &s;tinglings, the captious, crooked, and cro&s;s-grain'd Interpretations of things, wherewith that piece is farced in an unrea&s;onable proportion to the bulk of it, cannot lightly but conclude, that Indignation was the chief Oracle con&s;ulted with, about the framing of it.</P>
<P>But becau&s;e I would willingly decline all occa&s;ions of heat and recri|mination, as far as a &s;ober and ju&s;t vindication, not &s;o much of the per|&s;ons, as of the cau&s;e &s;o evill-intreated therein, will bear, I &s;hall chiefly confer with <HI>A. S.</HI> about his Reals, and leave men of common civility to determine and judge of his per&s;onalls; unle&s;s (po&s;&s;ibly) &s;omewhat
<PB N="30" REF="18">in this kinde &s;hall now and then occa&s;ionally fall in. I make no que&s;tion but that the Apologi&s;ts will be well able to bear it, that the cau&s;e which they maintain, &s;hould have the preeminence of their per&s;ons, in point of defence; nor are they &s;o &s;canted in the con&s;ciou&s;ne&s;s of their own worth and innocence, but that they are very well able to be out, and bear the want of &s;o much of their reputation for a time, as the <HI>Ob&s;ervations</HI> and <HI>An|notations</HI> of, I know not who, have unju&s;tly taken from them; e&s;pecially, in ca&s;e they &s;hall &s;ee it be&s;towed by their friends upon the accommodation of that honourable cau&s;e wherein they are ingaged and declared.</P>
<P>Since the former impre&s;&s;ion of this Di&s;cour&s;e, I perceive there is yet more anger and indignation broke forth into the world again&s;t that harm|le&s;s, gall-le&s;s and Dove-like <HI>Apologeticall Narration;</HI> concerning which, that may be truly &s;aid (though in a different &s;en&s;e) which <HI>Au&s;onius</HI> &s;aid of none of the wor&s;t Emperours in his Epitaph:<NOTE PLACE="marg">Marcus Anto|nius. Au&s;on. de duodecim Cae&s;aribus, <HI>&amp;c.</HI></NOTE></P>
<Q>Hoc &s;olo Patriae, qu&ograve;d genuit, nocuit.</Q>
<P>All the harm it hath done to the World or its Country, only is this, it hath begotten, and that not in its own likene&s;s, children of &s;weet, &s;ober, and tem|perate &s;pirits,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Aelian.</HI> lib. 1. cap. 29.</NOTE> but rough blu&s;tering Borean <HI>Ob&s;ervations</HI> and <HI>Annotations,</HI> gha&s;tly <HI>Anatomies,</HI> with &s;ome &s;uch other Heterogeneall fiery impre&s;&s;ions. <HI>Aelian</HI> makes report of a &s;trange prodigie once happening in a Grecian I&s;land, <HI>viz.</HI> That a Sheep brought forth a Lion; This Lion brought forth with this remarkable and eminent contrariety to the cour&s;e of nature, pre&s;ag'd (as the &s;ame Author relateth) tyrannie. I had much rather be a benefactor to the world by the communication of my hopes to it, when I have any that may befriend it; then to draw any man into pain or trouble with my &s;elf, by imparting my fears. But when Sheep bring forth Lions, and D<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ves Serpents, and calm Chri&s;tian-like &s;pirited di&s;cour&s;es, invective, bitter, and high ri&s;ing raging <HI>An&s;wers</HI> and <HI>Replies, Difficile e&s;t prophetiam non &s;cribere;</HI> Who can but prophecie? God of his mercy de&s;troy the &s;ign, and make the prediction vain.</P>
<P>As for the Author of the black <HI>Ob&s;ervations</HI> and <HI>Annotations,</HI> <GAP DESC="foreign">, he hath his wages well paid in<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">o his bo&s;ome for his work, in the precedent and &s;ub&s;equent of this Di&s;cour&s;e:</P>
<Q><GAP DESC="foreign"></Q>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">Anatomie of Independen|cie, &amp;c.</NOTE>As for <HI>Levi</HI> the <HI>Anatomi&s;t,</HI> who hath joyned him&s;elf with his brother <HI>Simeon</HI> the <HI>Annotator,</HI> to ma&s;&s;acre the innocent <HI>Narration,</HI> though for the pre&s;ent hee hath taken &s;anctuary under the &s;hadow of the Figure <HI>Anony|mi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">,</HI> and for fear of the wo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;t, I mean di&s;honour and di&s;grace, (for fear of authority in this ca&s;e, &s;wimming with the Presbyterian &s;tream, hee could have none) playes lea&s;t in fight with his name, yet I make no que&s;tion but
<PB N="31" REF="18">his day al&s;o is in coming, wherein his fal&s;e tran&s;lation of &s;treight actions into crook'd reports, will be corrected and amended according to the ori|ginall, and the my&s;terie of his intentions in that tran&s;lation, truly tran&s;la|ted into the knowledge and under&s;tanding of all men. This <HI>Anatomicall</HI> or cutting Di&s;cour&s;e, according to my <HI>A. S.</HI> his calculation, wants no|thing of a perfect libell, but only that it hath the formality of an <HI>Impri|matur</HI> to cover that nakedne&s;s of it; otherwi&s;e, as well in the Privatives of it, as Po&s;itives, I mean, as well in re&s;pect of the want of the Authors name, as of the matter and content of it, <HI>quantus quantus e&s;t, &s;apit libel|lum e&uacute;m&abque; famo&s;um.</HI> Suppo&s;e his Narrative of Independent infirmities and mi&s;carriages, would abide the touch&s;tone; yet was it a grand over-&s;ight in a man pretending to &s;o much knowledge and wi&s;dome, as hee &s;eems to do in this piece, not to con&s;ider, whether the dung-hils of Princes as well as of Pea&s;ants do not afford rags to them that will rake in them: whether the independent &s;tory, though written by an adver&s;ary, yeelds that propor|tion in weakne&s;s, which the Presbyterian Commentaries, if but unpartial|ly penn'd, would do in wickedne&s;s. I am not afraid to refer it to the con|&s;cience of the <HI>Anatomi&s;t</HI> him&s;elf to judge and &s;ay, under which of the two governments, the throne of Satan is lift up the higher; and whether thefts, rapines, murthers, drunkenne&s;s, bla&s;phemies, &s;orceries, witchcrafts, &amp;c. reign (and are like to continue reigning) more in the Independent, then Cla&s;&s;ique territories. But I tru&s;t the men, upon who&s;e faces that dirt is ca&s;t, will wipe them&s;elves clean in due time, and wre&s;t the di&s;&s;ecting knife out of the <HI>Anatomi&s;t's</HI> hand. I hear a bird &s;ing, that the bird in their brea&s;ts &s;ings a note of innocencie from tho&s;e a&s;per&s;ions: For the pre&s;ent, I &s;hall leave this Author to the reward of tho&s;e that intend to do God &s;ervice in per&s;ecuting his Saints.</P>
<P>There is another Advocate for the Presbyterian cau&s;e &s;tep'd forth lately upon the Stage, who adventures his name upon the confidence (it &s;eems) which he hath of his work: 'Tis intituled, <HI>A Confutation of the Anabapti&s;ts by</HI> T. B. This man with a party of his di&s;cour&s;e, faces the <HI>Anabapti&s;ts,</HI> whi|le&s;t with the main body of it he falls in upon the quarters of the <HI>Indepen|dents;</HI> in which re&s;pect, though I cannot ju&s;tifie him in his <HI>intentions,</HI> yet, as touching matter of <HI>execution,</HI> I judge him innocent: <HI>Animum nocentem, calamum innocentem gerit,</HI> Independencie (if I mi&s;take not very much) will never fall by the edge of his &s;word.</P>
<P>But <HI>(Reader)</HI> when &s;hall we &s;ee an end of the&s;e di&s;putes in the world? and when &s;hall the names of Presbyterian &amp; Independent (with all others of the like trouble&s;ome and jarring importance) cea&s;e from among&s;t us?</P>
<P>I cannot prophe&s;ie unto thee the ju&s;tne&s;s of the time, when this great wonder &s;hall be; but &s;ome few &s;ignes of this time approaching (if ever it
<PB N="32" REF="19">&s;hall approach) I conceive I am able to inform thee.</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, when men &s;hall begin to grow to a clearne&s;s, &s;inglene&s;s, honoura|blene&s;s and Chri&s;tian like greatne&s;s in their ends, making them&s;elves and their own intere&s;ts, their foot-&s;tool, and the glory of God, and the publike accommodation of the world, their throne; this is one great &s;ign that that golden age we &s;peak of, is at the door. The rea&s;on is, becau&s;e there is no hope (&s;carce a po&s;&s;ibility) of a general accord among&s;t men in any degree con&s;cientious, but in the truth, or mind of God revealed in the Scriptures. No other band is like ever to gather them all, or hold them longer fa&s;t to|gether. The rea&s;on of this is, becau&s;e in a great &s;ociety or communion of men, wor&s;hipping God aright, (I mean with uprightne&s;&s;e of heart) it is &s;eldome or never found, but that &s;ome of them, fewer or more, have the truth of God revealed to them, &s;ome in one point, and others in another, and that with &s;uch a&s;&s;urance, or evidence of under&s;tanding, that no argu|ments or rea&s;onings to the contrary what&s;oever are able to remove them, or alter their judgements therein. So that except all the re&s;t &s;hall come o|ver unto them, and joyn with them in &s;uch particulars as the&s;e, there is no po&s;&s;ibility of a thorough union in judgement between them. Now there is no way, means, or method more probable and hopefull to bring men to the knowledge of the truth, or (which is the &s;ame) of the mind of God delive|red in the Scriptures, in all things, then that &s;implicity or Chri&s;tian noble|ne&s;s of &s;pirit (which we &s;pake of) in their ends. The rea&s;on is, becau&s;e the tenour, frame and con&s;tituting principles of the Scriptures are ca&s;t, moul|ded and ordered by him that is the great Author of them, on purpo&s;e to comport and fall in with &s;uch ends, as were mentioned, <HI>viz.</HI> his own glory, and the publike accommodation of men from every particular: and on the contrary, to oppo&s;e, thwart, and cro&s;s every man in all his per&s;onall and particular ends what&s;oever, which have not a perfect &amp; intire con&s;i&s;tence with tho&s;e other. So that he that is in&s;pired, acted, and led by tho&s;e high and noble ends, the magnifying of God, and doing good to the community of men, can have no occa&s;ion or tentation at any time upon him to bow, &s;train, force, or wre&s;t any Scripture, becau&s;e in their native and proper &s;en&s;e and tendencie, they comply with him, and (as the Hebrew phra&s;e is) &s;peak to his heart; whereas on the contrary, if men be ingaged in &s;elf-ends and aims, which are incompliant with the glory of God, and the general good of men, as when they make the&s;e their foot-&s;tool, and their own honor or greatne&s;s, their throne, they have a &s;trong tentation, amounting to little le&s;s then a nece&s;&s;ity upon them, to deal violently with the Scriptures, to bend and &s;train, and force them out of their owne rectitude and &s;treight|ne&s;s, becau&s;e otherwi&s;e they wil not countenance or comply with them in their crooked ends, but condemn them.</P>
<P><PB N="33" REF="19">
He that intends to make hoops of a clean &s;treight-bodied tree, mu&s;t in the working of it alter the comely &s;hape and &s;treightne&s;&s;e of it, wherein it grew, and bend, and crook, and bow quite round, all that he imployeth of it to &s;uch a purpo&s;e, whereas he who&s;e Art and intent is to make Javelins, Lances, Pikes, or the like, of &s;uch a tree, hath no occa&s;ion to alter the na|tive &s;hape or figure of it in point of &s;treightne&s;&s;e, becau&s;e Nature it &s;elf had fitted it to his hand in this re&s;pect for &s;uch u&s;es and purpo&s;es as the&s;e; nay, this man &s;hould do again&s;t him&s;elfe, if he &s;hould alter them: In like man|ner, they who &s;eeke them&s;elves in wayes and ends which contradict the lawfull peace and comforts of other men, if withall they de&s;ire to have their proceedings countenanced and atte&s;ted by the Scripture for ju&s;t and good, they mu&s;t of nece&s;&s;ity &s;uborn them, and make them &s;peak what the holy Gho&s;t never meant they &s;hould &s;peak; whereas tho&s;e men who value not, regard not them&s;elves but in their order and due &s;ubordination, and are willing to gird them&s;elves and &s;erve, til God and men have fir&s;t eaten, and can be content with the rever&s;ions and broken meat of their table, be they never &s;o mean; the&s;e men (I &s;ay) need not &s;olicit or importune the Scri|ptures for their te&s;timony or compliance with them in their way, becau&s;e their native in&s;piration from God, leads them willingly, yea rejoycingly, yea triumphantly hereunto. Such men &s;hould but prevaricate with them|&s;elves and their own ends, if they &s;hould go about to make one haire of the head of the Scripture, either black or white, which the holy Gho&s;t hath not made &s;uch to their hand. Therefore whiles &s;ome men &s;hall &s;eeke to a|dorn their own names and reputations with the plunder and &s;poyls of o|ther mens, and lay the foundations of their owne greatne&s;&s;e in the ruines of the lawfull comforts and peace of others, there is no hope of a generall or through accommodation in matters of religion. It is impo&s;&s;ible that &s;uch men &s;hould comport with the truth in their way, and con&s;equently with tho&s;e who embrace the truth. Nor will any method of violence, as either impri&s;oning, fining, cru&s;hing, &s;uppre&s;&s;ing, bani&s;hing, cutting off by death, or the like, be able to advance that unity and accord which we al lu&s;t after, though &s;ome in Gods way, others in their own: the very gho&s;ts, and &s;ha|dows, and memories of tho&s;e that &s;hal &s;uffer in any of the&s;e kinds, for con|&s;cience towards God, will be as &s;o many &s;pirits of divi&s;ions, di&s;&s;entions, and di&s;tractions among&s;t tho&s;e that will chu&s;e no other Arbitrators to comprimize, their differences, but the <HI>Sword</HI> and <HI>Blood.</HI></P>
<P>Another &s;igne of tho&s;e Halcyon days approaching, &s;o much de&s;ired by us all, wherin all gu&s;ts, and winds, &amp; &s;torms of contrary doctrines, opinions, and Sects in religion, &s;hal be turned into a &s;weet calm of an univer&s;al unity and accord, is this: when Apo&s;tles, Prophets, Evangeli&s;ts, Pa&s;tors and Tea|chers, &s;hall be no more turned into Councels, Synods, and &s;ecular Armes: I
<PB N="34" REF="20">mean, when men &s;hall be freely permitted, without feare or danger of mo|le&s;tation, to con&s;ult with the Apo&s;tles, Prophets, &amp;c. of what religion it were be&s;t for them to be, without having their judgements emancipated, fore&s;talled and over-awed by the definitive, and compul&s;ory determinati|ons, and allowances of other men</P>
<P>The rea&s;on hereof is, becau&s;e the writings of the Apo&s;tles, Prophets, &amp; Evangeli&s;ts, with the Mini&s;tery of faithfull Pa&s;tors and Teachers, are &s;an|ctified and &s;et apart by God, for this very end and purpo&s;e, namely, <HI>the per|fecting the Saints,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Ephe&s;. 4 13.</NOTE> <HI>&amp;c. till they all come into the unity of the Faith, &amp;c.</HI> There|fore whil&s;t Councels, Synods, &amp;c. &s;hall intrude, or &s;tep in, as new Apo&s;tles, Prophets and Evangeli&s;ts, of another order, between tho&s;e Apo&s;tles, Pro|phets and Evangeli&s;ts, and tho&s;e Pa&s;tors and Teachers, which Chri&s;t hath given for the &s;etling of an univer&s;all peace and unity throughout all the Churches of his Saints, in due time, to interrupt &amp; intercept them in their work and way, &s;o that they can never have the judgments &amp; con&s;ciences of men in their native ingenuity and freedome to work upon, but &s;till up|on the di&s;advantage of Synodical impre&s;&s;ions and fore&s;tallments, partly with fear, partly with favour, partly with hope and conceit of the truth, there is little hope of &s;eeing the vi&s;ion of joy and glory in the world, I mean the Saints and Servants of Je&s;us Chri&s;t univer&s;ally ki&s;&s;ing and em|bracing one another in the armes of unity, truth and peace. It is in vain to wa&s;h in <HI>Abanah</HI> or <HI>Pharphar,</HI> when onely the waters of <HI>Jordan</HI> are &s;ancti|fied for the cure. To commit adultery, is not the way to increa&s;e, though fle&s;h and blood &s;hould determine for it. <HI>They &s;hall eate</HI> (&s;aith God) <HI>and not have enough: they &s;hall commit adultery and not increa&s;e, becau&s;e they have left off to take heed unto the Lord,</HI> that is, becau&s;e they had &s;ub&s;tituted their own wi&s;dome and inventions in &s;tead of his, for bringing their de&s;ires and ends to pa&s;&s;e, <HI>Ho&s;.</HI> 4.10.</P>
<P>Thirdly (and la&s;tly) when the generality of men profe&s;&s;ing godline&s;s and religion, &s;hall be content to furni&s;h them&s;elves with religion (I mean with knowledge in religion) by &s;maller parcels, as the &s;tock of their own judgements and under&s;tanding &s;hall be able from time to time to accom|modate th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">m, and &s;hall make &s;cruple of taking it up by whole &s;ale from Sy|nods, Councels, and Books, only for ea&s;e and cheapne&s;s &s;ake: this al&s;o is as the putting forth of the Fig-tree, which &s;hewes the Summer of an univer|&s;all accord among&s;t the Saints, to be at hand. The rea&s;on is, becau&s;e God hath promi&s;ed (and will perform accordingly) that <HI>if men &s;hall apply their heart to under&s;tanding, and &s;hall cry after knowledge, and &s;eek her as &s;ilver, and &s;earch for her as for hid trea&s;ure, they &s;hall th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">n under&s;tand the feare of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God,</HI> Prov. 2.2, 3, 4. But there is no promi&s;e made, that they who to favour them&s;elves, and to gratifie the fle&s;h, and to &s;ave the
<PB N="35" REF="20">labour of &s;eeking and &s;earching after knowledge, &s;hall take in the dictates and re|&s;olutions of men, and call them <HI>knowledge</HI> and <HI>under&s;tanding,</HI> without any more adoe, &s;hall either find <HI>the fear of the Lord,</HI> or true <HI>knowledge of God.</HI> Now till men &s;hall generally <HI>find the fear of the Lord,</HI> and the true <HI>knowledge of God,</HI> (which is not like to be out of that way, which the promi&s;e of God mentioned hath &s;anctified thereunto) there will be little hope of the generall meeting of men in the bond of peace, as was formerly argued in another of the&s;e &s;ignes.</P>
<P>Fourthly and la&s;tly, when Chri&s;tian States, and men of &s;ounde&s;t judgment, grea|te&s;t learning, parts and abilities therein, &s;hal give free liberty to men look'd upon as oppo&s;ite in judgment to the truth, to publi&s;h and openly declare the grounds &amp; rea|&s;ons of their judgments in each particular, and not compell them either to keep them burning or glowing in their own brea&s;ts, or el&s;e to propagate and vent them privatly, and among&s;t per&s;ons that have neither learning nor abilities in any kind, to encounter or oppo&s;e them; this is another hopefull &s;igne that the dayes of a ge|nerall accommodation in matters of religion, are comming upon the world.</P>
<P>The rea&s;on of this is plain, becau&s;e till truth reigne among the Saints, Peace is not like to reigne, (the rea&s;on whereof hath been already given) nor will Truth ever reigne like unto her&s;elf, till all her enemies (I mean errors and mi&s;pri&s;ions in matters of Religion) be &s;ubdued and brought under her feet. Nor is there any like|lihood in a way of rea&s;on or ordinary providence, that &s;uch enemies of the truth &s;hould ever be &s;ubbued, til they come to look tho&s;e &s;ons of Truth in the face, who are anointed by God with a &s;pirit of wi&s;dome and under&s;tanding, for the confuta|tion and utter aboli&s;hment of them. Doubtle&s;&s;e one main rea&s;on why errours, and fond and foul opinions do &s;till propagate &amp; prevail with &s;o high an hand among&s;t us, is, becau&s;e the&s;e Mini&s;ters and Teachers are &s;uffered to have none other vent for them, but only among&s;t people that are children in under&s;tanding, and not fur|ni&s;hed with &s;trength of knowledge, or parts of learning to with&s;tand them. The common proverb hath &s;omwhat in it to this purpo&s;e; <HI>Inter eaecos etiam lu&s;cus pote&s;t regna<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">e,</HI> A man with one eye will make a goodly King over tho&s;e that are blind.</P>
<P><HI>Reader, the Preface hath done with thee, and recommends thee to the Booke, where it wi&s;h|eth a happy greeting between thy judgment and the truth.</HI></P>
<DIV2 N="1" TYPE="chapter">
<HEAD><HI>Chap. 1.</HI> Concerning the directive p<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">wer in m<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">tters Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall, and which concern Religion; whether, how, or in what &s;en&s;e, it may be conceived to re&s;ide, in the civill Ma|gi&s;trate, Synods or other men.</HEAD>
<P><HI>Sect.</HI> 1. A. S. <HI>Pag.</HI> 5. hath this left-handed expre&s;&s;ion concerning the civill Ma|gi&s;trate, <HI>That he arrogates not to him&s;elf any directive power in matters of Religion</HI> The Reader mu&s;t do h<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">m a courte&s;ie in finding him out a very &s;oft &s;en&s;e for the word <HI>arrogate;</HI> otherwi&s;e, he will be found in a mi&s;pri&s;ion of a foul in&s;i|nuation again&s;t the Civill Magi&s;trate, as, <HI>viz.</HI> that he arrogates, <HI>i.</HI> (in the ordina|ry con&s;truction of the word) proudly a&s;&s;umes to him&s;elf, when he claims or exer|ci&s;eth
<PB N="36" REF="21">that <HI>executive, coercive, &amp; externall power, in and about matters of Religion,</HI> w^c^h yet <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf in the very next <HI>page,</HI> knowing on which &s;ide to butter his owne bread, a&s;cribes unto him: For, as he that &s;hould &s;ay of <HI>A. S.</HI> by way of commenda|tion, that he never corrupted a matron, or woman in marriage, &s;hould yet hereby re|&s;lect a &s;hrewd &s;u&s;pition upon him, that his innocency in this kind could not &s;o well be avouched, in re&s;pect of Virgins, or others of that &s;ex, out of matrimoniall rela|tion: in like maner, <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf intending an honorable purgation or vindicatio~ of the civil Magi&s;trate in the&s;e words, <HI>That he arrogates not to him&s;elf any directive power in matters of Religion,</HI> doth he not by the &s;ame rule of Antithetical relation (or im|plication) imply that he doth <HI>arrogate</HI> another power, which &s;tands in a Relative op|po&s;ition to it, which (according to his own di&s;tribution) is <HI>an executive, coercitive, &amp; external power, in &amp; thout matters of religion?</HI> but I marvel, that the man &s;hould here &s;o cleanly wipe the civil Magi&s;trate of <HI>a di ective power in matters of Religion,</HI> when as but a few pages before, in his 8. <HI>Ob&s;erv.</HI> he had pleaded <HI>wi&s;dome enough in the Parlia|ment to know what is convenient for the Church of God.</HI> If the Parliament be wi&s;e e|nough to know what is convenient for the Church, I know no rea&s;on why that Directive power here &s;poken of, &s;hould be derogated, or taken from them, e&s;peci|ally by tho&s;e, who (it is much to be feared) are much &s;traitned in re&s;pect of a &s;pi|rit of that wi&s;edome them&s;elves. Surely <HI>A. S.</HI> in &s;aying <HI>that the Parliament is wi&s;e e|nough to know what is convenient for the Church,</HI> hath &s;ifted the Synod or A&s;&s;embly, with a &s;ieve of vanity, and broke the head of the nece&s;&s;ity thereof; &amp; &s;o is guilty of a far higher mi&s;demeanour again&s;t it, then the Apologi&s;ts are in any thing that they have done, or &s;aid, yea or then him&s;elf layeth to their charge; which yet is his rod of &s;corpions to &s;courge them from place to place.</P>
<Q>Turpe e&s;t Doctori, cum culpa redarguit ip&s;um.</Q>
<P><HI>Sect.</HI> 2. But let us con&s;ider a little more narrowly, whether <HI>A. S.</HI> hath quited him|&s;elf like a Doctor of the Chaire, in &s;tripping the civill Magi&s;trate of <HI>a Directive power</HI> in matters of Religion, and putting on him in &s;tead thereof, the purple robe of <HI>an executive, coercitive and externall power only.</HI> pag. 6.</P>
<P N="1">1. By &s;uch an umpirage and deci&s;ion as this between the civill Magi&s;trate, and him&s;elf, with his fellow Presbyters, hath he not made the one <HI>Iudex,</HI> and the other <HI>Carnifex:</HI> the one mu&s;t give the &s;entence, the other mu&s;t do the execution? The Civil Magi&s;trate is much beholding to the Pres|byter, for giving of him a con&s;ecrated &s;word to fight the Presbyterian battells; and for per&s;wading him to pull out his own eys, upon this pre&s;umption, that he &s;hall &s;ee better with his. I perceive Presbyterie is policy in the highe&s;t: and &s;eeks to put the Magi&s;trate between it &s;elf, and the envie and di&s;content of the people; and yet neverthele&s;s, hopes to gain from the hand of the Magi&s;trate &s;uch an interpretation of this practice, as thereby to be e&s;teemed the be&s;t and faithfulle&s;t friend it hath in all the world. This cunning of the &s;pirit we now &s;peak of, puts me in minde of the Ape, that took the Spaniels foot to pull the Che&s;s-nut out of the fire. Surely the frame and con&s;titution of Presbyterie, is exactly calculated for the meridian of this pre&s;ent world; but w<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ether it will indif|ferently &s;erve for that which is to come, <HI>totus dubito,</HI> I am in doubt all over. And indeed, <HI>A. S.</HI> him|&s;elf is &s;omwhat ingenuous in acknowledging, that this government hath litle or no relation unto or compliance with, the world which is to come, profe&s;&s;ing, p. 13. <HI>the externall peace of the Church, to be the adaequate end thereof.</HI></P>
<P N="2"><PB N="37" REF="21">
2. I would gladly be informed, whether <HI>A. S.</HI> thinks it rea&s;onable,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 3.</NOTE> meet, or Chri&s;tian, that the civill Magi&s;trate, &s;hould immediately, hand over head, without di&s;tinction, without &s;earching (for his owne &s;atisfaction) into the equitablene&s;&s;e, and lawfulne&s;&s;e of what a Pres|byterie or Synod &s;hall commend unto him for execution, intere&s;&s;e him&s;elfe in the execution of what&s;oever &s;hall be &s;o recommended and pre&s;ented unto him? I pre&s;ume <HI>A. S.</HI> will not arrogate unto him&s;elfe, nor to his A&s;&s;embly, an infallibilitie, though (in &s;ome places) I find him very loath to abate this in the reckoning (if it would be allowed;) and the truth is, that the whole fabrique (well-nigh) of his di&s;cour&s;e, to make it rationall, and any thing to purpo&s;e, requires &s;uch a &s;uppo|&s;ition for the bottom and foundation of it, as this. Yet pag. 8. he con|de&s;cendeth &s;o low, as to number him&s;elfe among&s;t tho&s;e, who <HI>know that they know but in part:</HI> and pag. 9. among&s;t tho&s;e that are <HI>con&s;cious of their owne infirmity:</HI> which principle if he would plea&s;e to follow home, it would teach him to ca&s;t away the greate&s;t part of his di&s;cour&s;e with indignation, and to &s;ay unto it, <HI>get thee hence.</HI> If he grants a po&s;&s;i|bility of errour or unrighteou&s;ne&s;&s;e in the re&s;ults and awards, whether of his Presbytery or A&s;&s;embly, which are &s;uppo&s;ed to be tran&s;mitted to the Magi&s;trate for execution; he cannot, &s;peaking like a man, deny him a lawfulne&s;&s;e of power, no nor yet a nece&s;&s;itie by way of duty, to ex|amine and judge them, whether they bee lawfull or meet to bee put in execution, or no. And he that hath a power to judge and to determine, what is meet to be done, or not done, executed, or not executed, in matters of Religion, may bee &s;aid to have a <HI>Directive power</HI> in &s;uch things (at lea&s;t in the common &s;en&s;e and notion of a <HI>Directive</HI> power) as well as an Executive. But</P>
<P N="3">3. <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;hould befriend my intellect very much,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 4.</NOTE> to tell me plain|ly and di&s;tinctly, what he means by a <HI>Directive power in matters of Reli|gion;</HI> being (as it &s;hould &s;eeme) a daintie mor&s;ell, which hee would faine complement away from the Parliament and civill Magi&s;trate, and &s;natch away from all others, for him&s;elfe and his friends (Presbyteri|all Eccle&s;ia&s;tiques) to make merry with. 1. If by a <HI>Directive power,</HI> he meanes a liberty or power of con&s;idering, advi&s;ing, and propo&s;ing of what may be expedient to be done in matters of Religion, and for the good of the Church; I know no man but is intere&s;&s;ed in &s;uch a power: As when the Tabernacle was to be built, every man had pow|er to bring and offer what hee had, and what his heart &s;erved him to part with for &s;uch a purpo&s;e, towards the edification and furni&s;hing of it. But why this liberty or power &s;hould be denied unto the Parlia|ment
<PB N="38" REF="22">or Civill Magi&s;trate, upon whom principally the charge lyeth to provide quietne&s;&s;e and peace for the Churches within the verge of their temporall juri&s;diction; rea&s;on (doubtle&s;&s;e) on this &s;ide the Moone there lyeth none; and <HI>A. S.</HI> mu&s;t be very Seraphicall to finde any.</P>
<P N="2">2. If by <HI>a Directive power,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 5.</NOTE> he meanes an authoritative power, to con|clude, &s;ay, and &s;et down, what &s;hall, mu&s;t, or ought to be done, again&s;t all contradiction, <HI>in matters of Religion,</HI> I know no &s;ubject capable of &s;uch a power, but onely he that is above all the Predicaments in Lo|gique, or he <HI>to whom all power is given, both in Heaven and on earth.</HI> Cer|tain I am, that neither the one nor the other can be inve&s;ted with any greater power, then this. If the Presbyterians demand &s;uch a <HI>Directive</HI> power as this, let them ask the Crowne, Throne, and Kingdome of Chri&s;t al&s;o.</P>
<P N="3">3. If by a <HI>Directive power</HI> he means,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 6.</NOTE> a prudentiall faculty or ability, to direct, order, or pre&s;cribe, whether unto a mans &s;elfe or others, what in a way of rea&s;on, humane conjecture, or probability, is be&s;t and fitte&s;t to be done, followed, or imbraced in matters of Religion, as I would not deny this power (and that in &s;omewhat a more excellent degree) to <HI>A. S.</HI> his Presbytery or Synod, (alwayes provided that the con&s;tituting members of either, be of a &s;ound con&s;titution, as well for &s;pirituall wi&s;edome, as for meekne&s;&s;e and humility) &s;o is it not by <HI>A. S.</HI> to be denied to many private members of particular Churches; daily experience teaching us, that God gives of this prudentiall facul|tie unto many of the&s;e, by the Ephah, whereas to many Pa&s;tors it is given but by the Omer. And if this be the Directive power which he meanes, though he &s;eeks to allure the Parliament from the claim of it, by fa&s;tening a complementall commendation of mode&s;ty upon them, by way of exchange for it, proclaiming it unto the world, that they <HI>doe not arrogate it to them&s;elves;</HI> yet they doe claim it, yea, and exer|ci&s;e, act, and make u&s;e of it, from day to day, as occa&s;ion requireth. 1. In contriving and publi&s;hing their Ordinance for calling the A&s;&s;em|bly (formerly mentioned) they exerci&s;ed &s;uch a power, as we now &s;peak of. 2. In limiting tho&s;e that were to be of the A&s;&s;embly, to the &s;ubject or Argument, on which it was permitted unto them to debate and treat (as appeares by the Ordinance they did) they did no le&s;&s;e. 3. In appointing and ordering them not to determine or conclude of things as they plea&s;ed by plurality of votes, but <HI>to deliver their opini|ons and advices as &s;hould be mo&s;t agreeable to the word of God</HI> (another pro|vi&s;o in the Ordinance) they did the &s;ame. 4. In injoyning them, <HI>in ca&s;e
<PB N="39" REF="22">of difference of opinions between them, to pre&s;ent the &s;ame, together with the rea&s;ons thereof, unto both Hou&s;es</HI> (another member of that Ordinance) they did every whit as much. 5. In their nomination and calling &s;uch and &s;uch Mini&s;ters or Divines by name, and not others, to bee of the A&s;&s;embly, they acted the &s;ame power. 6. In framing the temper and con&s;titution of the A&s;&s;embly, allaying it with &s;uch and &s;uch members of their own, they &s;teer'd the &s;ame cour&s;e. 7. And la&s;tly (to omit many other particulars of like con&s;ideration) in their me&s;&s;ages or di|rections &s;ent unto them from time to time, how to proceed, what par|ticulars to wave for the pre&s;ent, what to fall upon, and to debate, to ha|&s;ten the i&s;&s;ue of their con&s;ultations, with the like, what doe they el&s;e but claim and exerci&s;e &s;uch a <HI>Directive power in matters of Religion,</HI> as we la&s;t di&s;tingui&s;hed?</P>
<P>If <HI>A. S.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 7.</NOTE> hath any other notion of his <HI>Directive power in matters of Religion,</HI> be&s;ides the&s;e three, my &s;oule hath not yet entred into that his &s;ecret; but waits for his opening a doore unto me by which it may. He taxeth the Apologi&s;ts once and again for generalities, and ob&s;cu|rities in their expre&s;&s;ions: But he that &s;aith, <HI>A man &s;hould not &s;teal, com|mits &s;acriledge</HI> him&s;elf.</P>
<P N="4">4. Whereas harping &s;till upon the &s;ame &s;tring,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 8.</NOTE> (the &s;ound whereof is &s;o melodious in his own eares, how har&s;h &s;oever in other mens) he chargeth the Apologi&s;ts, for <HI>going again&s;t the Parliaments intention,</HI> in ca&s;e they think, <HI>that they &s;hould judge of que&s;tions in debate between them and their brethren;</HI> &s;urely he &s;peaks rather as he would have it, then as he hath any ground to &s;peake. If he had plowed with their Hei&s;er, con&s;ulted with their expre&s;&s;ions of them&s;elves in reference to their in|tentions in this kind, he would have a&s;&s;oyled their riddle farre other|wi&s;e. For to what purpo&s;e &s;hould they injoyne the A&s;&s;embly (as we lately heard they doe in the Ordinance mentioned) <HI>in ca&s;e of difference of opinions between them, to pre&s;ent the&s;ame, together with the rea&s;ons therof, unto both Hou&s;es of Parliament,</HI> if they had no intention to umpire or judge between them? Have they a de&s;ire to look upon &s;uch differen|ces as &s;ome rare &s;ight, or plea&s;ant &s;pectacle, onely to &s;olace and delight them&s;elves with them? And why doth the tenour of their delegati|on of power to the A&s;&s;embly, run in this &s;train, <HI>To deliver their opini|ons and advices, as &s;hould be mo&s;t agreeable to the word of God?</HI> Do's any man de&s;ire the opinion and advice of another in any matter that con|cerns him, without any intention of con&s;idering or judging of them?</P>
<P>But <HI>A. S.</HI> is as cunning as <HI>A. C.</HI> and would fain commend his care and tenderne&s;&s;e over the Parliament,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 9.</NOTE> in the things of their honour and
<PB N="40" REF="23">peace, by in&s;inuating unto them a non-vocation from God, to doe any thing with their judgments and under&s;tandings <HI>in matters of Religion,</HI> but all things (without exception) with their hand and power, that the A&s;&s;embly, whether out of their judgments or affections, &s;hall pro|po&s;e or <HI>dictate</HI> unto them. <HI>A. S.</HI> (I believe) is a brother of the &s;tronger &s;ide of the A&s;&s;embly; otherwi&s;e it is every whit as much to be fea|red, that he would have Arminianiz'd as much, if not far more then the Apologi&s;ts have done. But if the Parliament hath no calling from God, to judge of matters between the Apologi&s;ts and their Brethren (the A&s;&s;emblers) I would willingly know who hath? or whether it be rea&s;onable, that the Apologi&s;ts matters yet remaining undecided, and unjudged between them and their Brethren, &s;hould &s;uffer as men con|victed, only becau&s;e their adver&s;aries and accu&s;ers (the Brethren yee wot of) are more in number then they, and will needs continue ad|ver&s;aries to them? Our Saviours te&s;timony concerning him&s;elfe and his own cau&s;e, was a thou&s;and times more authentique and valid then the te&s;timony of never &s;o many men, take the be&s;t of the whole gene|ration, is in theirs; and yet he &s;aid, <HI>If I beare witne&s;&s;e of my felfe, my witne&s;&s;e is not true,</HI> (Joh. 5.31.) That is, it is not formally, or in a legall interpretation, true; it is not true upon any &s;uch termes, but that you may rea&s;onably wave it, if you apprehend that you have grounds to do it. <HI>But</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>there is another that beareth witne&s;s of me, &amp;c.</HI> The te|&s;timony of a thou&s;and men in a ca&s;e which equally (or though it bee with &s;ome inequality) concernes them&s;elves, is of no more validitie or authoritie, then of a particular man, in a ca&s;e relating onely to him|&s;elfe. Yea, a good mans con&s;cience, in matters relating unto him&s;elfe, is never in more danger of &s;uffering, then in a crowd, concern'd in the &s;ame manner with him. It is the &s;aying of one, that <HI>etiam ex timidi&s;&s;i|mis animalibus acris multitudo cogi pote&s;t,</HI> that is, you may make a fierce company of the fearfulle&s;t creatures that are, if you put enough of them together; &s;o frequent experience &s;heweth, that <HI>etiam ex aequi&s;&s;i|mis hominibus iniqua multitudo cogi pote&s;t;</HI> you may make a bad a&s;&s;embly, of the be&s;t men.</P>
<P>Be&s;ides,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 10.</NOTE> <HI>A.S.</HI> him&s;elf affirms, <HI>p.</HI> 38. <HI>That to be both Judge and Party in one cau&s;e cannot be granted to tho&s;e that have no authoritative power one over another:</HI> and that <HI>Par in Parem non habet imperium.</HI> Therefore why &s;hould the Apologi&s;ts fall in judgement by the hand of tho&s;e that are parties, and but equall to them? Again, It is his own rea&s;oning, <HI>pag.</HI> 45. <HI>If all Churches were equall</HI> (as for ought I know, or that <HI>A. S.</HI> alledgeth to the contrary, they are) <HI>there can neither be &s;uperiours nor
<PB N="41" REF="23">inferiours, and con&s;equently no obedience or di&s;obedience.</HI> And if <HI>Ju&s;tice con&s;i&s;teth not in an Arithmeticalls but Geometrical, proportion</HI> (which is his own &s;aying, <HI>pag.</HI> 70. and &s;omewhat more rationall and le&s;s Presbyte|riall, then mo&s;t of it's fellows are) then is there no rea&s;on, that perei<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">|ptorine&s;s of vote, how Arithmetically &s;o ever priviledged, but weight and worth of argument, &s;hould carry it again&s;t them. Which how it may fall, when God &s;hall cancell or rever&s;e the Sciptures that now are, and make a new revelation of him&s;elf unto the world, I know not; but while&s;t the&s;e &s;tand, confident I am, that they will never &s;o fall.</P>
<P>But why the man &s;hould deny the Parliament a calling to judge of matters between the Apologi&s;ts &amp; their Brethren,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 11.</NOTE> when as every other man in the Kingdome hath a calling, yea, and &s;omewhat more then a calling, a &s;peciall and weighty nece&s;&s;ity to do it, (though not after the &s;ame manner in re&s;pect of the con&s;equence of their judgement) I &s;ee as little rea&s;on, as I do for twenty and ten things more a&s;&s;erted by him. Would <HI>A. S.</HI> have even the meane&s;t of men to &s;ing obedience and &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion to the A&s;&s;embly without their under&s;tandings? Alas, they could make no melodie in their hearts unto God with &s;uch a &s;ing|ing. Nor would the &s;ong be either honourable or comfortable to the A&s;&s;embly it &s;elf, if them&s;elves and others would but plea&s;e to be&s;tow a few &s;erious thoughts upon it. The glory of a Synod lies not &s;o much in the &s;trength of their conclu&s;ions, as of their premi&s;&s;es: nor is it any thing worthy to be pre&s;umed, in compari&s;on of what it is to be known, to be wi&s;e and upright men. Me thinks an A&s;&s;embly of con&s;cientious and learned men, &s;hould rather count it a prophanation of their con|clu&s;ions and re&s;olves, then otherwi&s;e, to have them &s;wallowed without chewing; to have them &s;ub&s;cribed and con&s;ented unto only in &s;uch a way, and upon &s;uch terms, as fools are wont to believe, &s;ub&s;cribe, and con&s;ent unto all things: But,</P>
<P N="5">5. To make the Apologi&s;ts out of love with &s;o much as looking to|wards the <HI>Parliament</HI> for any relief from them again&s;t the &s;evere de|votion of their <HI>Brethren,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 12.</NOTE> in ca&s;e they vote contrary to them (under which hope <HI>A. S.</HI> injoyes him&s;elf with much contentment) hee tells them, that by &s;uch a cour&s;e or expectation, they will joyn them&s;elves with the Arminians, of whom he is plea&s;ed to tell this Story. <HI>That ho|ping the civill Magi&s;trate would have been for them, they gave this Directive or Deci&s;ive power unto him; and afterwards repented them&s;elves when they found him again&s;t them.</HI> Leaving the truth of the Story upon the credit. of the Relator; I an&s;wer:</P>
<P N="1">1. That Je&s;us Chri&s;t was never the more a &s;inner, for being <HI>numbred</HI>
<PB N="40" REF="24">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="41" REF="24">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="42" REF="25">by the Jews <HI>amongst tran&s;gre&s;&s;ours,</HI> or for being crucified btween two thieves. Nor are the Apolog&s;ts, or men of their judgement ever the more culpable or blame-worthy for being bound up in the &s;ame bundle of condemnation with Delinquents, by their adver&s;aries. <HI>Quis enim landaverit ho&s;tem?</HI></P>
<P N="2">2. Neither did <HI>Paul</HI> count it any di&s;paragement to him,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 13.</NOTE> to preach that Je&s;us Chri&s;t was the Son of God, becau&s;e the Devill had preached the &s;ame Doctrine before him. Nor doth <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf think him&s;elf ever the more a Papi&s;t, becau&s;e the <HI>Papi&s;ts</HI> (as him&s;elf confe&s;&s;eth after|wards, <HI>pag.</HI> 18.) <HI>believe all that he believeth</HI> (though for my part I think any man as good a <HI>Prote&s;tant</HI> as him&s;elf, that believe that much as he) And <HI>pag.</HI> 64. in his 18^t^h rea&s;onle&s;s Rea&s;on again&s;t a toleration of men better then him&s;elf, he in&s;inuates this as a choice commendation of his Presbyterial Government, that <HI>in it their Churches are not expo&s;ed unto the calumnies of the Papi&s;ts, who pretend to be nothing but one Church;</HI> mean|ing, that a compliance with them in unity and uniformity, will be an exemption to them from their calumnies.</P>
<P N="3">3. It is an old piece of &s;ubtilty of the old Serpent,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 14.</NOTE> to oppo&s;e God in his Saints, and in his wayes, by teaching his Prophets and Agents to make parallels between, to &s;ort and to &s;uit Gods &s;ervants with his, and Gods wayes or works with his, that &s;o the fooli&s;h and incon&s;iderate world might be brought to think, that God and hee are but one, and that there is little or no difference between them. How did <HI>Jannes</HI> and <HI>Jambres</HI> with&s;tand <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> but by doing the &s;ame things in appearance by the help of the Devill, which <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> did by the finger of God? By this they hardened <HI>Pharaoh</HI> and the Egyptians with this confidence and conceit, that God was no more with <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> then with them. <HI>A. S.</HI> pa|rallels the Apologi&s;ts with the Arminians, hoping to catch the foot of the &s;imple in this &s;nare, to make them think that they are both bapti|zed into one and the &s;ame &s;pirit: you &s;hall finde a further &s;train of this malignity in him, <HI>pag.</HI> 22.</P>
<P>Fourthly (and la&s;tly) if the Arminians gave that <HI>power to the Civill Magi&s;trate</HI> which they are here charged to have done,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 15.</NOTE> <HI>upon hope they would have beene for them,</HI> they are no Antipodes to <HI>A. S.</HI> and his fra|ternitie, who deny this power to the Civill Magi&s;trate, for feare they &s;hould not be <HI>for them,</HI> if they were left free to judge of their owne actions. All the lineaments in the face of Presbyterie demon&s;trate this to be in the heart of it; a willingne&s;s to conferre all, and all manner of power what&s;oever upon the Civill Magi&s;trate in matters of Religion, which they may be &s;ecured will be u&s;ed to &s;erve their turnes, and not
<PB N="43" REF="25">to the prejudice or di&s;turbance of them in their way. And &s;o <HI>A. S.</HI> af|ter hee had laboured in the very fire, and had ingag'd him&s;elfe to the uttermo&s;t to prove the negative, he fals off with this glozing clo&s;e at the la&s;t, (pag. 51.) <HI>that if the King and Parliament &s;hould finde</HI> [any thing contrary to what he had delivered] <HI>expedient, he had nothing to &s;ay again&s;t it.</HI> Therefore of the two, Arminians are more charitably af|fected towards the Civill Magi&s;trate, in ca&s;ting a power upon them, out of an hope they would u&s;e if for their good, then the Presbyteri|ans are in denying this power unto them, out of feare they will u&s;e it to their damage.</P>
<P N="6">6. (And la&s;tly,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 16.</NOTE> for conclu&s;ion of this fir&s;t Chapter) concerning &s;uch a Directive power in matters of Religion, as <HI>A. S.</HI> (it &s;eemes) would here &s;eque&s;ter for the honour and &s;ervice of his Presbyterie, when Je|&s;us Chri&s;t had declared him&s;elfe willing to dive&s;t him&s;elfe, and make a delegation of it unto them, I &s;hall as willingly acknowledge and adore their parent, as any other. In the meane time, (God &s;upporting me) I &s;hall with the utmo&s;t of my power, and in the pre&s;ence of all di&s;cou|ragements, dangers, deaths, vindicate the rights and prerogatives be|longing to the crowne of my great Lord and Ma&s;ter: what &s;hall be|come of me in &s;o doing&punc; <HI>ip&s;e viderit.</HI> As for &s;uch <HI>a Directive power,</HI> which with the honour and &s;afety of the rights of Heaven, is attributa|ble unto men, who&s;e character and cognizance is this, <HI>not to be compul|&s;orie unto men by any externall violence, whether directly or indirectly, to &s;ub|&s;cribe again&s;t their judgements and con&s;ciences to it,</HI> I can freely allow as much of it to <HI>A. S.</HI> and his Presbyterial A&s;&s;emblies, as will &s;tand with their peace with God, with their honour in the &s;ight of unpartiall and intelligent men, with the peace and edification of the Churches of God: if they would have more (let them looke to it) this de&s;ire of theirs will in time finde them out and &s;lay them.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="2" TYPE="chapter">
<HEAD><HI>Cap. 2.</HI> Concerning that executive, coercitive, and externall power in mat|ters of Religion, which <HI>A. S.</HI> a&s;cribes unto the Civill Magi&s;trate. <HI>pag. 6.</HI></HEAD>
<P>A. <HI>S.</HI> in this &s;ixth page, to per&s;wade with the Parliament and Civill Magi&s;trate, that they &s;hal do God good &s;ervice to re&s;igne up their eyes patiently into the hands of his Presbyterie, feeds them with the commendations of <HI>Constantine the Great, in refu&s;ing an unju&s;t and exorbi|tant pow<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">r, which the Councell gave to him.</HI> Where (by the way) it is &s;ome|what ob&s;ervable, that it is a thing incident to Councels and Synods, to
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<PB N="44" REF="27">give <HI>unju&s;t &amp; exorbitant power</HI> unto Civil Magi&s;trates. So that it &s;tands the Parliament &amp; civil Magi&s;trate in hand, before they part with their eyes upon &s;uch terms, to look about them, and to con&s;ider twice over, what power they receive and accept of from the hand of Councel and Synods, e&s;pecially in reference to matters of Religion, and the Chur|ches or &s;ervants of Chri&s;t. It is a terrible &s;aying of Chri&s;t, enough to make both the ears of Kings and Princes, and Parliaments, (yea, and of Synods and A&s;&s;emblies too) to tingle. <HI>Who&s;oever &s;hall offend one of the&s;e little ones, that believe in me, it were better for him that a mil&s;tone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the &s;ea,</HI> Matth. 18.6. It is dangerous medling with Saints in any other way, then of tenderne&s;s and love, be the never &s;o few in number, never &s;o weak in power, or otherwi&s;e (<HI>one of the&s;e little ones,</HI> &s;aith Chri&s;t); All the 21. Rea&s;ons, with 41. more put to them, whereby <HI>A. S.</HI> incites the Parliament again&s;t a toleration of the Apologi&s;ts, with men of their judgement, in the &s;equele of his di&s;cour&s;e; will not deliver either the King or Parliament out of the hand of that threatning, if they come under the dint of it, by offering any violence (&s;hall I &s;ay?) yea, any offence to the lea&s;t of the&s;e little ones. The Holy Gho&s;t (I <HI>Cor.</HI> 15.24.) prophe&s;ieth of <HI>the putting down of all rule, and all authority and power by Chri&s;t:</HI> the rea&s;on thereof, in the words immediatly following, hee &s;heweth to be, their enmity unto him; <HI>for hee mu&s;t reign,</HI> (&s;aith the Apo&s;tle, <HI>Ver&s;.</HI> 25.) <HI>till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.</HI> The truth is, that it is a very hard matter, even for the be&s;t of men, in places of rule, authority and power, to move regularly in their own orb, and not to mi&s;take, or &s;train beyond the tenour of their commi&s;&s;ion, to in|termeddle in the affairs of Chri&s;t, con&s;idering, fir&s;t, that they are com|pa&s;&s;ed about with their own infirmities, as well as other men: &s;econd|ly, in re&s;pect of their callings, they are compa&s;&s;ed about with more ten|tations this way, then other men: thirdly, (and la&s;tly) which is as much, or more then both the former, (if they be Chri&s;tians) what be|tween the in&s;inuations and flatteries of the ba&s;er, and the incon&s;iderate affections and favour of the better &s;ort of Teachers, they are taught to da&s;h their foot again&s;t this &s;tone, as if it were another crown of glory to them.</P>
<P>But let us fir&s;t &s;ee,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 2.</NOTE> what that <HI>executive,</HI> or <HI>coercive</HI> (if it be lawfull to cut <HI>A. S.</HI> a &s;yllable &s;horter) power is, which the man with both hands, and an importune bounty, will needs be&s;tow upon the Civill Magi|&s;trate. 2 By what authority, and upon what grounds he doth it.</P>
<P>For the fir&s;t, hee de&s;cribes and &s;tates this power, after this manner,
<PB N="45" REF="27"><HI>(pag. 6.) The Parliament pretends no Directive power in matters of Religi|on &amp; nor any executive power that is intrin&s;ecall to the Church &mdash; but only an executive, coercitive, and externall power, which is not in, but about the Church, and for the Church, whereby it compelleth refractory men to obey the Church. And this authority belongs actually and in effect,</HI> in actu exercito, <HI>(as they &s;ay) to true Chri&s;tian Magi&s;trates; but to others potentially,</HI> in actu|fignato; <HI>and</HI> jure in rem <HI>only, till they become true Chri&s;tians, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P>In this de&s;cription the man is to me a Barbarian (his own phra&s;e to the Apologi&s;ts) in the word, <HI>Church.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Sect. <HI>3.</HI></NOTE> I have be&s;towed thoughts more then a few to be partners with him in his notion of the word; but <HI>quan|to plus cogito, co minus capio.</HI> For &s;hame <HI>A. S.</HI> out with the beam of ob|&s;curity from your own eye, before you tiffle again to pull the moat of ob&s;curity out of your brothers eye. A man in rea&s;on would think, that the &s;ame word, being u&s;ed four or five times (and that without the lea&s;t intimation of any variety or difference of &s;ignification) almo&s;t within the compa&s;&s;e of &s;o many lines, were &s;till meant, and to be taken in one and the &s;ame &s;en&s;e. If &s;o, then ha with you. The Parliament, <HI>by that coercitive power,</HI> which you are plea&s;ed here to be&s;tow upon it, by way of compen&s;ation for that directive power which you take from it, <HI>compelleth</HI> (&s;ay you) <HI>refractory men to obey the Church:</HI> I pre&s;ume that by the <HI>Church</HI> here, you do not mean all the particular Churches and Congregations in the kingdome in the <HI>folio</HI> of their re&s;pective mem|bers, but in the <HI>deoimo &s;exto</HI> of their Synod, repre&s;entative A&s;&s;embly. If you take the word in the former &s;en&s;e, you only &s;ay, that the Parlia|ment hath power to compell the refractory to obey all the particular Churches, with their &s;everall members in the Kingdome; which is a &s;en&s;e (I conceive) at as much defiance with your ends, as with your and our under&s;tandings. If you take it in the latter (which I doubt not but is your beloved &s;en&s;e) then your meaning is, that the u&s;e and in|tent of that <HI>executive coercive power in matters of Religion,</HI> which you put into the Parliaments hands, is to compell the kingdome, in ca&s;e it be refractory, or <HI>tot quot,</HI> to obey the Presbyterie, and Presbyteriall a&s;&s;emblies in all their Canons, Determinations, and Decrees what|&s;oever, without bail or mainpri&s;e, without mercy or compa&s;&s;ion, whether a man findes &s;ap, &s;en&s;e, &s;avour, rea&s;on or Religion in them or no.</P>
<P>But yet &s;econdly,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 4.</NOTE> I know not well how you &s;hould mean the Church contracted in her Grand Presbyterie or Generall A&s;&s;embly neither; fir&s;t, becau&s;e you affirm in this <HI>coercive power</HI> in the Parliament, to be <HI>not in, but about the Church, and for the Church.</HI> And I doubt your
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<PB N="46" REF="29">meaning is not that the Parliament &s;hould, either only, or chiefly work or act with this their <HI>coercive power,</HI> upon your Eccle&s;ia&s;tique A&s;&s;emblies, to re&s;train and keep them within compa&s;s; though I confe&s;s, if it &s;hould move only or chiefly in this &s;phere, it would be more <HI>for the Church, i.</HI> for the good and benefit of the Church in generall, then to &s;uffer &s;uch a&s;&s;emblies to fit and impo&s;e oaths upon men to obey their acts, orders, and decrees, (which you tell us, glory|ing in your &s;hame, <HI>pag.</HI> 42. is done in your Presbyteriall Government) and to puni&s;h or cru&s;h tho&s;e that &s;hall have more con&s;cience, then to in&s;lave them&s;elves unto them in &s;uch a way.</P>
<P>And 2. if by <HI>Church</HI> you &s;hould here mean the Church repre&s;enta|tive (as it is more commonly, then properly called) in her generall A&s;&s;embly, you would be a little more open, then (I conceive) will well &s;tand with your principles in &s;uch ca&s;es. For then your meaning is plainly this, That the Parliament hath that <HI>executive coercive power,</HI> which you a&s;cribe to it, not for the Church, <HI>i.</HI> the benefit of the Saints and &s;ervants of God throughout the kingdome, but for the benefit and behoof of the Ecclefia&s;tique Presbyteries and A&s;&s;emblies only. Now however, I can ea&s;ily believe, that thus you would have it, yet I conceive it &s;omewhat eccentricall to your other motions to profe&s;s it.</P>
<P>And yet 3. when you immediately adde; that <HI>in vertue of this au|thority, when parties pretend to be effended by the Church, or if the Church judge any thing ami&s;s, hee</HI> (the civill Magi&s;trate) <HI>may command the Church to revi&s;e and examine its judgement, &amp;c.</HI> You mu&s;t needs mean your tran&s;cendent Church of Presbyters; otherwi&s;e you &s;hould pre|varicate, and grant a judiciary power to particular Congregations.</P>
<P N="4">4. (And la&s;tly) in the very next <HI>page) (pag. 7.)</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 5.</NOTE> to repre&s;ent the vo|luntary exile of the Apologi&s;ts, with as hard-favour'd an a&s;pect in the eyes of men as he could, his indignation again&s;t it utters it &s;elf in this Patheticall &s;train over the poor Church of God in this Kingdome. <HI>And if they all had fled away, what might have become of the poor Church of God in this Kingdome? &amp;c.</HI> Here, by the <HI>Church of God in this King|dome,</HI> he cannot mean the Eccle&s;ia&s;tique Church of repre&s;enting Pres|byters, becau&s;e, if the&s;e had all fled away, there had been no <HI>Church of God</HI> (in &s;uch a &s;en&s;e) <HI>in this Kingdome.</HI> By <HI>the Church of God in this place,</HI> if he means any thing like a man, hee mu&s;t needs mean the godly part in the Kingdom, and that con&s;idered, without their Presbyters or Pa&s;tours. And oh that hee, and his coopinatory party would but grant that that <HI>executive coercive power</HI> which is in the civil Magi&s;trate, is for this Church: I mean, for the benefit and peace of this <HI>Church of
<PB N="47" REF="29">God.</HI> But in the mean time you &s;ee, that his Trumpet in the De&s;crip|tion he gives of his <HI>executive, coercive, externall power in the Magi|&s;trate,</HI> gives no di&s;tinct &s;ound; perhaps he blew wild on purpo&s;e, le&s;t an enemy &s;hould know how to prepare to battaile again&s;t him.</P>
<P>But is there never a ble&s;&s;ing, of rea&s;on, or truth, in all this clu&s;ter? Come and &s;ee.</P>
<P><HI>In vertue of this authoritie</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>when parties pretend to be offended with the Church, or the Church judge any thing ami&s;&s;e,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 6.</NOTE> <HI>he</HI> (the Civill Ma|gi&s;trate) <HI>may command the Church to examine its judgement,</HI> &amp;c. In the&s;e few words he hath plainly plundred and undone a very confiderable partie of his owne beloved notions el&s;ewhere. For,</P>
<P N="1">1. What rea&s;on hath he to be &s;o invective again&s;t the Apologi&s;ts (as he is pag. 49. and 50.) for holding that Kings or civill Magi&s;trates are above the Church, when as him&s;elfe here profe&s;&s;eth, that <HI>they may command the Church;</HI> e&s;pecially his own Maxime el&s;ewhere, being this, that <HI>Par in parem non habet imperium;</HI> and that <HI>Where there is no Su|periour or Inferiour, there can be no obedience or di&s;obedience.</HI></P>
<Q>Non buc, non illuc exemplo nubis aquo&s;ae.</Q>
<P N="2">2. If the civill Magi&s;trate hath power <HI>to command the Church to re|vi&s;e her judgment, when &s;he judgeth any thing ami&s;&s;e,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 7.</NOTE> &s;urely he hath power to examine and judge of her proceedings, whether they be regular, e|quall, and ju&s;t, or no; except you will &s;ay, that he comes to the know|ledge of your itregular and undue proceedings in your Presbyteries, by immediate revelation. Suppo&s;e either the one or the other, what rea&s;on have you to deny him part and fellow&s;hip with you in that <HI>Di|rective power in matters of Religion,</HI> which you ingro&s;&s;e and appropri|ate to your &s;elves, as we have formerly &s;een?</P>
<P N="3">3. If &s;o, then your Presbyteriall A&s;&s;embly, or judging Church, may determine and judge ami&s;&s;e. And if &s;o, 1. how dare yee compell or make the people under your government to &s;weare obedience or &s;ub|jection unto your orders, which yet by your own confe&s;&s;ion (<HI>pag.</HI> 42) ordinarily you doe? 2. Why are you not &s;atisfied with that &s;ubjecti|on to your Presbyteriall Deci&s;ions, which pleadeth no exemption, but only in the ca&s;e of non-&s;atisfaction, about the lawfulne&s;&s;e or truth of them? You give men a good foundation, <HI>a liberty to beleeve that you may erre;</HI> but you will not &s;uffer them to build upon it, to refu&s;e you, when they think in their &s;ouls and con&s;ciences that that you doe erre, They that will &s;eparate between &s;uch premi&s;&s;es and &s;uch conclu&s;ions,
<PB N="48" REF="30">will hardly make good Chri&s;tians them&s;elves, or &s;uffer others &s;o to be. And if you be but ingenuou&s;ly willing to goe along with this your own principle, <HI>That you may erre,</HI> as farre as it would gladly lead you, me thinks I dur&s;t undertake that the Apologi&s;ts and you &s;hall com|primize before to morrow next.</P>
<P N="4">4. (And la&s;tly) if parties may have cau&s;e to be offended,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 8.</NOTE> and not onely <HI>pretend</HI> to be offended (as <HI>A. S.</HI> would mince it) with the Church (as out of all que&s;tion they may, if the Church may judge ami&s;&s;e) then have they power to judge of their actions, as well as they of theirs. No man is ju&s;tifiable in his complaint or offence taking, but he that hath a power to examine and judge of that which gives the cau&s;e, or mini&s;ters the occa&s;ion of the offence. And if a fingle partie, which is no Presbyter or Prophet (in your &s;en&s;e) hath a lawfull power to ex|amine and judge of the acts and orders of a Presbyteriall or Propheti|call A&s;&s;embly; and may po&s;&s;ibly by means of &s;uch an examination, take them tardie; do not &s;o far magnifie the &s;pirits of your Prophets again&s;t the &s;pirits of our Saints, as to think the&s;e good for nothing but to &s;wear homage and va&s;&s;alage unto them.</P>
<P>But. <HI>A. S.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 9.</NOTE> (&s;u<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">el<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">) plea&s;eth him&s;elfe highly with a paracell of di|&s;tinctions, w^c^h <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">e pre&s;ents us within the prementioned De&s;cription; and hopes (perhaps) to make an atonement with them for his confu|&s;ion or<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">er wi&s;e.</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, He di&s;tingui&s;heth of that <HI>executive, coercive power,</HI> where with h<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> inve&s;ts the civill Magi&s;trate, as not being <HI>in, or intrin&s;ecal<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> unto the Church</HI> hus <HI>ex ernall,</HI> and <HI>about the Church.</HI> Secondly, he di&s;tingui&s;h|eth the &s;ubject capable of this power, the civill Magi&s;trate, into <HI>truly Chri&s;tian,</HI> and <HI>not truly Chri&s;tian.</HI> Thirdly, upon this di&s;tinction, he builds a third di&s;tinction, concerning the manner of the competencie of this power, to the one kind of &s;ubject and the other; telling us, that this power or <HI>authority belongs actually and in effect,</HI> in actu exercito, &amp; j<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">re in re <HI>to true Chri&s;tian Magi&s;trates; but to others potentially,</HI> in actu &s;ignato, <HI>and</HI> jure in rem <HI>onely, till they become true Chri&s;tians.</HI></P>
<P>The man (you &s;ee) hath much adoe to find,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 10.</NOTE> or come at that <HI>power,</HI> where with he would &s;o fain gratifie the civill Magi&s;trate, <HI>in matters of Religion:</HI> He adjures three unclean &s;pirits of di&s;tinctions, to tell him what, and where it is; and yet they doe but <HI>peep and mutter</HI> in their an&s;wer and make no man the wi&s;er by it. Here he &s;eeks for the <HI>coer|cive power of the civill Magi&s;tratre in matters of Religion,</HI> in the &s;ame black &s;ea of darkne&s;&s;e and confu&s;ion, wherein he &s;eekes (and would make the world beleeve he finds) the Presbyterian government after|wards.
<PB N="49" REF="30">But if the one and the other be cloz'd up in &s;uch an ammuniti|on of rockes of di&s;tinctions, as <HI>A. S.</HI> repre&s;ents them in his &s;tory, cer|tainly they are inacce&s;&s;ible to the judgements and con&s;ciences of per|&s;ons of mean capacity; and much more inacce&s;&s;ible to the judgments and con&s;ciences of more under&s;tanding and con&s;idering men. The ve|ry darkne&s;&s;e it &s;elfe of the di&s;tinctions which he is nece&s;&s;itated to u&s;e, to make his way to come at the one and at the other, is a light &s;uffici|ent to di&s;cover, that neither the one nor the other is any where to be found within the territories either of rea&s;on or of truth. But let us &s;ee the di&s;tinctions play a little before us, for their Ma&s;ters credit.</P>
<P>For the fir&s;t: The <HI>Magi&s;trates power</HI> (&s;aith he) viz. <HI>in matters of Re|ligion</HI> (for &s;o he mu&s;t nece&s;&s;arily be under&s;tood, by the Antithe&s;is in the former clau&s;e or member of this Di&s;tinction, where he denies a <HI>Directive power</HI> unto him, <HI>in matters of Religion) is not in, or intrin&s;ecall to the Church, but extrin&s;ecall and about the Church.</HI> Is it <HI>in,</HI> i. <HI>intrin&s;ecall</HI> to matters of Religion; and but <HI>extrin&s;ecall</HI> in re&s;pect of the Church? So then (it &s;eems) <HI>A. S.</HI> his Presbyteriall Church, is &s;omewhat more inward, intimate, and intrin&s;ecall, then the religion of this Church; otherwi&s;e, how &s;hould the <HI>power of the Magi&s;trate</HI> penetrate <HI>into</HI> the <HI>Religion</HI> thereof, and yet not reach <HI>into,</HI> but onely <HI>unto</HI> the Church it &s;elfe? By this di&s;tinction he hath utterly di&s;grac'd his Presbyteriall Government, by making the Churches under it, more internall and inward, then the religion that is to be found in them. If the Apolo|gi&s;ts had but whi&s;pered one tittle of &s;uch a &s;aying, though at never &s;uch a di&s;tance, it had been enough to have produced &s;even rea&s;ons more (at lea&s;t) again&s;t their toleration, then are yet levied or brought forth into the world.</P>
<P>But 2^l^y, though you &s;eem to deale very bountifully with the Magi|&s;trate in giving him a power <HI>extrin&s;ecall</HI> and <HI>about the Church,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 11.</NOTE> and to content your &s;elfe and your compresbyters with an <HI>intrin&s;ecall</HI> power onely; yet by &s;omewhat that hath been lately printed, it appeares, that you mean to eate at the &s;ame Table with him, which you pretend to &s;pread for him alone. For hath not the pre&s;&s;e very lately been de|livered of this peece of Presbytery,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Reformation clearned, p. 23.</NOTE> that the <HI>Clafficall Presbytery hath the authoritative power of Citation,</HI> ju&s;t as the Bi&s;hops had? And is not &s;uch a power externall, and which is not <HI>in,</HI> but <HI>about</HI> the Churches? For if a Cla&s;&s;is &s;hall cite or excommunicate a member of a Church, a|gain&s;t the judgement and con&s;ent of the Elders of that Church, let all the world judge whether that be not an act of externall power with|out the Church.</P>
<P><PB N="50" REF="31">
If it be replied, No; becau&s;e that Church did implicitly con&s;ent in yeelding their Elders for members of that <HI>Presbytery;</HI> We reply, That if either your publick Law con&s;trains that Church upon penalty,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Invitum dici|tur, quod quis vel per ignoranti|am admittit. Ari&s;t. Eth. l. 3. c. 1. Kecker. Praecog Sy&s;t. Eth.</NOTE> again&s;t their light, to &s;uffer their Elders to fit in the <HI>Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyte|ry,</HI> then that Church doth not freely con&s;ent; or if that Church with|out con&s;traint doth con&s;ent for want of light (as it mu&s;t be &s;uppo&s;ed, if a Cla&s;&s;is upon debate be found to be be&s;ides the word) this <HI>ignorant</HI> act of that Church, is an unwilling or involuntary act, and &s;o no free con|&s;ent. And &s;o the Cla&s;&s;is, according to <HI>A. S.</HI> his di&s;tinction, is like a Ma|gi&s;trate, which is a <HI>Bi&s;hop without, and about that Church.</HI></P>
<P>But good <HI>A. S.</HI> we know it is an ea&s;ie matter to di&s;tingui&s;h the Ma|gi&s;trate into &s;uch an <HI>executive, coercitive, externall power as you &s;peake of;</HI> but we would fain &s;ee you demon&s;trate him into it: and then <HI>A. S.</HI> and <HI>M. S.</HI> &s;hould be no more two, but one S. We know not how to tran&s;|form di&s;tinctions into demon&s;trations.</P>
<P>His &s;econd Di&s;tinction, is of the Subject of this power, the Ma|gi&s;trate, whom he makes two-fold, <HI>truly Chri&s;tian, and not truly Chri|&s;tian.</HI> But,</P>
<P N="1">1. I would faine know by what Touch&s;tone <HI>A. S.</HI> will try his gold in this ca&s;e; I mean judge of the <HI>truth of Chri&s;tianitie in a Magi|&s;trate.</HI> It appeares (from page 50. of his di&s;cour&s;e) that he hath no mind to grant his <HI>truth of Chri&s;tianity</HI> unto a Magi&s;trate that is either <HI>Lutheran, Anabapti&s;t, Socinian,</HI> or <HI>Papi&s;t.</HI> Any of the&s;e mi&s;pri&s;ions in Chri&s;tianity, are as &s;ufficient in <HI>A. S.</HI> his judgement, as in ours, to keep the &s;word of that power we &s;peake of, out of the Magi&s;trates hand. And as for a Magi&s;trate who&s;e judgement &s;hall be infected (per|fected, rea&s;on and truth would &s;ay) with Apologi&s;me, (or the great hatred of his &s;oule) independencie) I make no que&s;tion but he (in the Comique terme) &s;hould bee <HI>exclu&s;i&s;&s;imus</HI> from this capacitie or right above all the re&s;t.</P>
<P>But let us goe on with the man in the termes of his own addre&s;&s;e to the Apologi&s;ts,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 13.</NOTE> in the &s;ame place. If he &s;aith that by a <HI>Magi&s;trate tru|ly Chri&s;tian,</HI> he under&s;tand an <HI>orthodox Magi&s;trate; what if he had one or two errors? would he yet permit him to be orthodox,</HI> and truly Chri&s;tian, <HI>or not?</HI> Till <HI>A. S.</HI> here &s;pecifies, <HI>Seermones generales non movent</HI> (his own &s;hall make u&s;e of my rea&s;on to beleeve, that by a <HI>Magi&s;trate truly Chri&s;tian, A. S.</HI> onely mean a Magi&s;trate, who in his judgement is Presbyteriall: and that this qualification of Presbyteriali&s;me, and <HI>truth of Chri&s;tianitie</HI> in a Magi&s;trate, are again&s;t all contradictions, and
<PB N="51" REF="31">counter-poy&s;ings what&s;oever, <HI>termini aequipollentes</HI> in his Logique. And if this be his meaning, the king (to be &s;ure) hath none of his <HI>power</HI> as yet, <HI>in actu exercito,</HI> and <HI>jure in re;</HI> nor hath the Parliament (at lea&s;t for ought <HI>A. S.</HI> or the kingdom knoweth) any whit more of it then the King. And what&s;oever it hath done hitherto, by any <HI>execu|tive, coercive, externall</HI> power <HI>about the Church</HI> or Church-affairs (in which kinde it hath done very much) depends as touching the validity and ju&s;tifiablene&s;s of it upon this &s;uppo&s;ition, that it Presbyterializeth. Whence it followeth, that he that cannot, or doth not believe that the Parliament is of a Cla&s;&s;ique inclination, cannot (with the leave of <HI>A. S.</HI> his di&s;tinction) judge them to have done lawfully or warrantably any thing that they have done hitherto, about, or for the Church.</P>
<P>The truth is, that till <HI>A. S.</HI> will plea&s;e to define, what manner of Magi&s;trate hee mu&s;t be, that &s;hall pa&s;s the te&s;t of his di&s;tinction, for <HI>truly Chri&s;tian,</HI> wee are con&s;trained to &s;u&s;pend our bounty in confer|ring that <HI>executive, coercive, externall power about the Church</HI> upon any man. Nor do I make much que&s;tion, but that wee &s;hall have twenty Di&s;tinctions more, before we &s;hall obtain that Definition.</P>
<P>But of all the three di&s;tinctions here upon the &s;tage,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 14.</NOTE> the be&s;t dancer is yet behind. <HI>This Power</HI> or <HI>Authority</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>belongs actually and in effect, in actu exercito, &amp; jure in re</HI> (it's very long, me thinks, ere wee hear, to whom it belongs) <HI>to true Chri&s;tian Magi&s;trates: but to others potentially,</HI> in actu &s;ignato, &amp; jure in rem only, <HI>untill they become truly Chri&s;tian.</HI></P>
<P N="1">1. Though I have many times heard of the di&s;tinction, <HI>in actu exer|cito, &amp; in actu &s;ignato,</HI> yet I never heard of any thing belonging to a per&s;on <HI>in actu exercito,</HI> but that belonged to him, and that <HI>per prius, in actu &s;ignato.</HI> Hee to whom the principle or power of acting doth not belong, cannot &s;tand ingaged for the exerci&s;e or acting of &s;uch a power.</P>
<P N="2">2. My &s;oul longs for the Summer fruit of a good rea&s;on from <HI>A. S.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 15.</NOTE> why any <HI>power about the Church, and for the Church</HI> &s;hould not belong, <HI>actually, and in effect</HI> in actu exercito, &amp; jure in re, (and with as many other, proper, unproper, nece&s;&s;ary, unnece&s;&s;ary, &s;ober, ridiculous ex|pre&s;&s;ions as he plea&s;eth) as well to a Magi&s;trate not yet truly Chri&s;tian, as to him that is &s;uch. Hath not an Heathen or Heterodox Magi&s;trate a lawfulne&s;s of power, to do pre&s;ently, this day, this hour, to morrow, and &s;o forth, <HI>toties, quoties,</HI> as much good to and for the Church or Churches of Chri&s;t within his juri&s;diction or dominion, as he could have, if he were truly Chri&s;tian? Do acts of ju&s;tice, bounty, grace to|wards
<PB N="52" REF="32">the Churches of Chri&s;t, any whit more defile a Magi&s;trate how far from truly Chri&s;tian &s;oever, then acts of the &s;ame nature performed unto his other &s;ubjects? The <HI>Kings,</HI> and tho&s;e that were <HI>in authority</HI> in <HI>Pauls</HI> dayes, were generally (all the kings without exception) far from being truly Chri&s;tian; and yet was it not lawfull for them to interpo&s;e with their Authority or Power, that the Churches of Chri&s;t in their dominions, <HI>might lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godline&s;s and hone&s;ty?</HI> If not, then was that exhortation of his, 1 <HI>Tim.</HI> 2.2. to be laid up in Lavender for &s;ome hundreds of yeers after it was given; or el&s;e the benefit and ble&s;&s;ing, the obtaining whereof by prayer is made the ground of the exhortation, mu&s;t have been made over in the intentions of tho&s;e that had &s;o prayed, unto their po&s;terities after many gene|rations. <HI>A. S.</HI> may choo&s;e which of the two hee will believe: for my part, I &s;hall not be his corrivall in either.</P>
<P>Yee have heard <HI>A. S.</HI> his <HI>Di&s;tinctions</HI> for a <HI>coercive power</HI> about the Church in a Civill Magi&s;trate: <HI>Demon&s;trationes autem ubi?</HI> But where are his proofs?</P>
<Q>Quas non invenio u&s;quam, e&s;&s;e puto nu&s;quam.</Q>
<Q>What I finde not any where, I believe to be no where.</Q>
<P>I have &s;earched,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 16.</NOTE> and that &s;omewhat narrowly, throughout the whole volume of his Di&s;cour&s;e, to finde &s;omething, that with any indulgence of imagination might be conceived to look like a proof of this his opinion, and can finde none, &s;ave only that poor one, of the examples of the Kings of <HI>Juda</HI> (<HI>pag.</HI> 63) inforc'd after this manner; <HI>It is the Civill Magi&s;trates part to take away Here&s;ies, Super&s;titions, and corruptions in manners after the examples of the Kings of</HI> Juda. <HI>Where|fore then is it not his duty likewi&s;e to take away all Schi&s;mes which are the high way to</HI> (and &s;ometimes from) <HI>Here&s;ie, and con&s;equently to deny Toleration, which is a way to both?</HI></P>
<P>Reader, neither you nor I, mu&s;t be offended, to have a mole-hill of proof given us for a mountain of conclu&s;ion. You mu&s;t know it is the manner of the Presbyterian School, to hang great weights upon &s;mall wyars. For what need Dictators argue? But,</P>
<P N="1">1. If it be the Magi&s;trates part to take away <HI>Super&s;titions,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 17.</NOTE> <HI>Here&s;ies, &amp;c.</HI> &s;ure it is his part al&s;o to make him&s;elf able to di&s;cern &s;uper&s;titions and here&s;ies from the true wor&s;hip and truths of God. Hee is to &s;erve God in &s;uch a practice, with his own under&s;tanding, and not by the Proctorage of Presbyterie (as you tell the Apologi&s;ts, <HI>pag.</HI> 48. that they mu&s;t <HI>not &s;erve God by a Proctor</HI>) and if &s;o, you mu&s;t untru&s;s, and
<PB N="53" REF="32">deliver back again to him that <HI>Directive power</HI> in matters of Religion, which you lately took from him.</P>
<P N="2">2. When the Magi&s;trate <HI>takes</HI> away Super&s;tition, Here&s;ie,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 18.</NOTE> &amp;c. hee had need have better &s;ecurity then a Synod can give him, to &s;ave him harmle&s;s, in ca&s;e he &s;hould <HI>mi&s;take,</HI> and &s;mite the truth of God, in &s;tead of <HI>Here&s;ie,</HI> and the true wor&s;hip of God in &s;tead of <HI>Super&s;tition.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Act. 5.24.28.38, 39.</NOTE> <HI>Ga|maliel</HI> might have had the full Vote of a Synod or Councell, for per|&s;ecuting the <HI>Super&s;tition, Schi&s;me</HI> and <HI>Here&s;ie</HI> of the Apo&s;tles; but this was not &s;ecurity enough to him; he was afraid of <HI>fighting again&s;t God,</HI> this notwith&s;tanding. And for my part, when the civill Magi&s;trate &s;hall be far enough out of this danger of <HI>fighting again&s;t God,</HI> I have nothing to &s;ay again&s;t his fighting with Super&s;tition, Here&s;ie, Schi&s;me, corruptions in manners, &amp;c. Only my prayer for him unto God is, that hee would give him a wife and under&s;tanding heart, to con&s;ider and di&s;cern, whether u&s;urpation over the judgements and con&s;ciences of the Saints of God, in matters of Religion, be not as grand <HI>a corruption in manners</HI> as a Church or Kingdom is lighly incident unto.</P>
<P N="3">3. Becau&s;e the examples of the Kings of <HI>Judah</HI> for want of better arguments,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 19.</NOTE> are &s;o much importun'd to &s;peak a good word for that <HI>exe|cutive coercive power</HI> in the Civill Magi&s;trate, with which <HI>A. S.</HI> would truk with him for that Directive power (before &s;poken of) let us con&s;ider with a little more freedome and ingenuity, what they con|tribute thereunto.</P>
<P N="1">1. We do not read that any of the good Kings of <HI>Judah</HI> ever of|fered any violence to the true Prophets, or people of the Lord, except it were in pa&s;&s;ion, as 2 <HI>Chron.</HI> 16.10. where <HI>A&s;a</HI> is &s;aid to have been <HI>wroth with the Seer,</HI> that admoni&s;hed him, and to <HI>have put him in pri&s;on.</HI> Which fact of his I think <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf will be a&s;ham'd to pre&s;ent ei|ther to Kings or Parliaments for imitation. Therefore what&s;oever be&s;ides may be prov'd from the example of the <HI>Kings of Judah in mat|ters of Religion,</HI> towards the rearing up of a Presbyterie in the perfecti|on of its glory; certain it is, that nothing can be proved, for the per|&s;ecuting, annoying, cru&s;hing, di&s;gracing, bani&s;hing, fining the Apologi&s;ts, whom him&s;elf (more then once or twice) acknow|ledgeth for very pious, godly, and learned men.</P>
<P N="2">2. Neither did any of the&s;e Kings ever compell any man to be of the Jewi&s;h Religion; nor yet to profe&s;s the Jewi&s;h Religion again&s;t their judgements. It was permitted to per&s;ons of other Nations to live among&s;t them, without being circumci&s;ed, yea, or without &s;mar|ting for want of it.</P>
<P N="3"><PB N="54" REF="33">
3. Nor do we reade,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 20.</NOTE> that ever they attempted any thing again&s;t any Sectaries or Schi&s;matiques (as <HI>A.S.</HI> would call them) which yet aboun|ded in great variety and numbers among&s;t them. We do not finde, that ever they finde impri&s;on'd, bani&s;hed, put to death, either Scribes, or Phari&s;ees, or Herodians, or per&s;ons of any other Sect in the profe&s;&s;ion of the Jewi&s;h Religion, that lived peaceably in their State. Idolatry and Idolaters were (it &s;eems) the adaequate object of their <HI>coercive power</HI> in matters of Religion.</P>
<P N="4">4. Nor did they,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 21.</NOTE> nor were they to inflict any outward puni&s;hment, upon every kinde of Idolater, though of the Jewi&s;h both Nation and Religion; as fir&s;t, not upon covetous per&s;ons, who yet are a kinde of Idolater, <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 5.5. Nor &s;econdly, upon tho&s;e that wor&s;hipped the true God of I&s;rael, though with &s;ome violation of the &s;econd Com|mandement, as when they &s;acrificed in the high places, &amp;c. But, fir&s;t, upon &s;uch only, who apo&s;tatiz'd from the God of I&s;rael, to &s;erve &s;trange gods, the gods of other Nations: And yet &s;econdly, not upon &s;uch neither, &s;imply as &s;uch, but as attempting to intice and draw away other of the people of God unto the &s;ame Idolatries with them, <HI>Deut.</HI> 13.5, 8, 9.</P>
<P N="5">5. There are two rea&s;ons very con&s;iderable,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 22.</NOTE> why the Kings of <HI>Judah</HI> might be inve&s;ted by God with a larger power in matters of Religi|on, then Kings or Magi&s;trates under the Go&s;pel have any ground or warrant to claim from them. Fir&s;t, they were types of Chri&s;t, which no King under heaven at this day is; Secondly, not the people only, but the very Land over which they ruled, were typicall al&s;o, the one of the &s;pirituall Church of Chri&s;t, the other of the heavenly inheritance of that Church: both of them holy and con&s;ecrate in &s;peciall manner unto God. If Kings and Magi&s;trates under the Go&s;pel can plead either the&s;e rea&s;ons, or any other of equall con&s;ideration with the&s;e, I &s;hall not &s;cruple an acknowledgement of an equality of power in them. But otherwi&s;e, to alledge the power of the Kings of <HI>Judah</HI> in matters of Religion, for an inve&s;titure of Kings and Magi&s;trates under the Go&s;pel, with the like, ju&s;tifies the arguing of the Prelaticall School, which pleads the order of the <HI>Aaronicall Prie&s;thood,</HI> to demon&s;trate the nece&s;&s;ity of a Metropoliticall &s;overaigntie.</P>
<P N="6">6. It no where appears that any of the godly Kings of <HI>Judah</HI> ever had,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 23.</NOTE> or exerci&s;ed any power to &s;uppre&s;s, bani&s;h, impri&s;on, trample up|on, cru&s;h or grinde the faces of any godly per&s;ons among them, were they few or many, only becau&s;e they were for a while tender in point of con&s;cience to concurre with the major part of the Prie&s;ts, Scribes,
<PB N="55" REF="33">or Levites in &s;ome things di&s;putable between them, and others in the Land. Vntill <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;hall dig &s;uch a trea&s;ure as this out of the Scrip|tures, hee will never have &s;ufficient wherewith to fini&s;h that tower of <HI>a Magi&s;traticall coercive power in matters of Religion,</HI> which he hath b<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">gun to build.</P>
<P N="7">7. If <HI>A. S.</HI> (or any other) will needs make the Kings of <HI>Judah</HI> tri|butaries to his opinion,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 24.</NOTE> concerning that <HI>coercive power</HI> we &s;peak of in the Civill Magi&s;trate, he mu&s;t fir&s;t prove, that the&s;e Kings were in|ve&s;ted with that power which they exerci&s;ed in matters of Religion, by a morall Law, and which is of perpetuall obligation and ingage|ment upon other Nations. For &s;uch a weak man as I, will rather in|cline to think, that it was conferr'd upon them by a Law Politique and Judiciall; and which no more concerneth or obligeth Kings and Ma|gi&s;trates of other Nations, then that Law mentioned in the &s;ame place with it, (and which indeed is part of it) (<HI>Deut.</HI> 13.) which injoyneth <HI>the &s;laying of the Inhabitants of the</HI> Idolatrous <HI>City with the edge of the &s;word, and the de&s;troying of it utterly with all that is therein, and the cat|tell thereof, with the edge of the &s;word; and the gathering of all the &s;poil thereof into the midst of the &s;treet thereof, and the burning of the City with fire, and all the &s;poil thereof every whit; and the making it an heap for ever, and the not building it again.</HI> I think <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf doth not conceive Chri&s;tian Kings or Magi&s;trates ingag'd in con&s;cience to ob&s;erve all the particulars in this Law.</P>
<P N="8">8. (And la&s;tly) if you con&s;ult with tho&s;e pa&s;&s;ages in the Law where that power which the Kings of <HI>Judah</HI> exerci&s;ed about Idolatry and Idolaters,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 25.</NOTE> (for they went no further; they meddled not with the cru&s;hing of Sects or Schi&s;mes, as we heard) you will finde, that it was the generality or entire body of the Church or Nation of the <HI>Jewes,</HI> and not their Kings, that was inve&s;ted with it by God: See <HI>Deut.</HI> 13. from the beginning to the end: and again, <HI>Deut.</HI> 7.5. and <HI>Chap.</HI> 12.2, 3. with many of like con&s;ideration. So that what they did in this kinde, they did it, or were to have done it, in the Name, and with the con|&s;ent of the Body of their people.</P>
<P>But the grand Pillar and &s;upporter of this <HI>coercive power</HI> in Magi|&s;trates, is this angry and di&s;contented argument. What? Would you have all Religions, Sects and Schi&s;mes tolerated in Chri&s;tian churches? Should <HI>Jewes, Turks,</HI> (and <HI>Papi&s;ts</HI> e&s;pecially,) be &s;uffered in their Religions? What a confu&s;ion mu&s;t this needs breed, both in Church and State? Give me leave to demulce and pacifie this argument; and then we advance to a new &s;ubject. I an&s;wer by di&s;tingui&s;hing.</P>
<P N="1"><PB N="56" REF="34">
1. If by a <HI>toleration,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 26.</NOTE> the argument means either an approbation, or &s;uch a connivence which either takes no knowledge of, or however no ways oppo&s;eth &s;uch Religions, Sects, or Schi&s;mes, as are unwar|rantable, they are not to be tolerated. But fir&s;t, orthodox and able Mini&s;ters ought in the cour&s;e of their publick Mini&s;tery, and other|wi&s;e upon occa&s;ion in a grave, &s;ober, and inoffen&s;ive manner, &s;oundly from the Scriptures to evince the folly, vanity, and fal&s;hood of all &s;uch wayes. Secondly, others al&s;o that have an anointing of light and knowledge from God, are bound to contribute occa&s;ionally the be&s;t of their endevours towards the &s;ame end. Thirdly, in ca&s;e the Mini&s;ter &s;hall be negligent, or forgetfull of his duty in this kind, the Magi&s;trate may and ought from time to time to admoni&s;h him, that he fulfill his Mini&s;tery in that point al&s;o. Fourthly, if a per&s;on, one, two, or more, being members of a particular Church, &s;hal be infected with any hereticall or dangerous opinion, and after two or three ad|monitions, with means of conviction u&s;ed to regain him, &s;hall conti|nue ob&s;tinate, he ought to be ca&s;t out from among&s;t them by that Church. Fifthly and la&s;tly, if it be a whole Church that is &s;o corrup|ted and infected, the re&s;t of the neighbour Churches, in ca&s;e it hath a|ny, ought to admoni&s;h it, and to endevour the reclaiming of it. If it be refractory after competent admonition, and meanes u&s;ed for the reducing of it, they may and ought to renounce communion with it: and &s;o &s;et a mark or brand of here&s;ie and ob&s;tinacie in the forehead of it. But,</P>
<P>Secondly,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 27.</NOTE> if by a toleration the argument means a non-&s;uppre&s;&s;ion of &s;uch Religions, Sects and Schi&s;mes by a &s;trong hand, as by fining, impri&s;oning, disfranchi&s;ing, bani&s;hment, death, or the like; my an|&s;wer is, that they ought to be tolerated, onely upon this &s;uppo&s;ition, that the profe&s;&s;ors or maintainers of them, be otherwi&s;e peaceable in the State, and every way &s;ubject to the Laws, and lawfull power of the civill Magi&s;trate. My rea&s;ons are,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 28.</NOTE> becau&s;e God hath anointed and &s;anctified his word, and the Mini&s;tery hereof, for the <HI>ca&s;ting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts it&s;elfe again&s;t the knowledge of God, and for the bringing into captivity every thought unto the obedience of Chri&s;t,</HI> 2 Cor. 10.5. The A|po&s;tle in this place, <HI>v.</HI> 4. affirms, that the <HI>weapons of his warfare</HI> (mea|ning the knowledge which he had of God, and of Je&s;us Chri&s;t in the Go&s;pel, and his abilities of utterance and preaching) <HI>were mightie through God,</HI> for tho&s;e ends and purpo&s;es. When God hath appointed a means, and that of &s;o much efficacy and power, either to prevent an
<PB N="57" REF="34">inconvenience, or to accompli&s;h any end or effect what&s;oever, for men to wave this means, and to intere&s;&s;e another of their own, is both to put an affront upon God, and to con&s;ult fru&s;tration and di&s;appoint|ment to them&s;elves. And for my part, I am all thoughts made, that the true and adequate rea&s;on why tho&s;e Sects and Schi&s;mes, and wild opinions which are lately &s;tarted among&s;t us, gather &s;o much &s;trength and head, and grow &s;o fa&s;t upon us as they doe daily, is this; that we re|ject the wi&s;edome and coun&s;ell of God for the oppo&s;ing and &s;uppre&s;|&s;ing of them, and have recour&s;e to our owne arm, hoping by di&s;gra|cing, di&s;placing, way-laying, impoveri&s;hing, &s;u&s;pending, impri&s;o|ning, and other weapons and ways of the fle&s;h, to ea&s;e our &s;elves of the burthen&s;omne&s;&s;e and trouble of them. Be&s;ides the Scripture men|tioned, there is a pa&s;&s;age of full importance this way, <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 4.11, 12, &amp;c. <HI>And he gave &s;ome Apo&s;tles, &s;ome Prophets, and &s;ome Evangeli&s;ts, and &s;ome Pa&s;tors and Teachers, for the perfecting of the Saints, for the worke of the Mini&s;tery, for the edifying of the body of Chri&s;t, untill we all come into the unity of faith, and of the knowledge of the Sonne of God,</HI> &amp;c. We &s;ee here that Gods de&s;igne and de&s;ire, as well as ours, is <HI>unitie,</HI> and perfect agreement among&s;t the Saints, in all matters of faith and know|ledge. But how, or by what means, or by whom hath hee projected and purpo&s;ed the obtaining of this his de&s;ire? Mark, he doth not &s;ay, that he gave &s;ome Kings, and &s;ome Princes, and &s;ome Judges, and Ju&s;tices of the Peace, &s;ome Pur&s;evants, and &s;ome Jaylors, &amp;c. to bring us into the <HI>unitie</HI> of the faith; No, but <HI>he gave &s;ome Apo&s;tles, &amp; &s;ome Pro|phets, and &s;ome Evangeli&s;ts, and &s;ome Pa&s;tors and Teachers,</HI> to bring this de&s;irable end of his to pa&s;&s;e. And if we would make more u&s;e of the&s;e agents and in&s;truments of God, <HI>of the Apo&s;tles, Prophets, Evangeli&s;ts,</HI> of <HI>Pastors and Teacher's,</HI> and le&s;&s;e of tho&s;e other (which are our owne) for the quenching of tho&s;e flames of divi&s;ions and di&s;&s;entions that are among&s;t us in matters of Religion, we might in all likelihood &s;ee our de&s;ires in this behalfe, many years &s;ooner then by any other cour&s;e we are like to do. The word of God, e&s;pecially in the hand of an able Mini&s;ter (among other ends) is given by God on purpo&s;e for the <HI>convi|ction</HI> and <HI>&s;topping of the mouths of gain-&s;ayers,</HI> Tit. 1.9, 11. And therfore this will doe it, when a thou&s;and other meanes, not having this a|nointing oyle upon them, though never &s;o plau&s;ible, and promi&s;ing in the eye of humane wi&s;edome, will rather open them yet wider, then otherwi&s;e.</P>
<P N="2">2. It is the expre&s;&s;e order and command of God to Mini&s;ters of the Go&s;pel, upon whom chiefly it lies, by way of office and duty,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 29.</NOTE> to in|&s;truct
<PB N="58" REF="35">and convince gain&s;ayers,<NOTE PLACE="marg">The &s;ervant of the Lord mu&s;t not &s;trive but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, in meekne&s;&s;e in|&s;tructing tho&s;e that op|po&s;e them|&s;elves, if God peradventure wil give them repentance to the acknow|ledgement of the truth. 2 Tim. 2, 24.25.</NOTE> and men contrary-minded to the truth, to performe the&s;e offices unto them <HI>with meekne&s;&s;e;</HI> and there|fore not to threaten them with delivering them over to the Secular powers, or to incite the civill Magi&s;trate again&s;t them. And if it bee not lawfull for the Mini&s;ter to encourage or put on the civill Magi|&s;trate to u&s;e any externall violence or compul&s;ion again&s;t &s;uch, cer|tainly it is not lawfull, much le&s;&s;e any point of duty for him to pro|ceed in any &s;uch way again&s;t them. And if &s;uch meekne&s;&s;e be to be u|&s;ed towards tho&s;e that are profe&s;&s;ed enemies to Chri&s;tian Religion in the main (of which the Scripture in the margine evidently &s;peaketh) much more is it to be &s;hewed towards tho&s;e, who it may be are as cordially affected to this Religion, as our &s;elves, onely di&s;&s;enting from us in &s;ome <HI>apices</HI> or <HI>iota's</HI> of this Religion.</P>
<P N="3">3. <HI>Repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth,</HI> being (as we &s;ee) a &s;peciall <HI>gift of God,</HI> and no man capable of it by his own indu&s;try or &s;eeking, it is very unrea&s;onable that the want of it, being in it &s;elfe a judgement upon a man from God, and withall no wayes prejudiciall or hurtfull unto others,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 30.</NOTE> (at lea&s;t not nece&s;&s;arily or unavoidably hurt|full unto any) &s;hould expo&s;e him to further puni&s;hment and mi&s;e|ry from men. I conceive a rea&s;onable man will think it very hard and unrea&s;onable to puni&s;h a man for not doing of that, which is onely pro|per and in the power of God to doe.</P>
<P>Externall compul&s;ion in matters of Religion,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 31.</NOTE> is of a proper and direct tendencie to make men twofold more the children of &s;in (and &s;o of wrath) then they were before, or would be otherwi&s;e. Now that which directly tends to increa&s;e &s;in and iniquity in a Land, cannot bee lawful, or from God. Suppo&s;e the State-Religion, and manner of wor|&s;hipping God, which the Magi&s;trate practi&s;eth and profe&s;&s;eth, be a|greable to the truth; yet if I, having no &s;uch faith of either, but judging in my &s;oule and con&s;cience, that both State and Magi&s;trate, are polluted in both, &s;hould make profe&s;&s;ion of either as the truth, I &s;hould be a notorious hypocrite and di&s;&s;embler before God and men, wounding my con&s;cience, and condemning my &s;elfe in what I allow in this ca&s;e. And yet &s;uch a profe&s;&s;ion as this, is that which the compul&s;ive power of the Magi&s;trate &s;eekes to extort from me. In which ca&s;e I mu&s;t &s;uffer, becau&s;e I will not &s;in to the ruine and de&s;tru|ction of my &s;oule.</P>
<P>If it be objected, That the intent of the Magi&s;trates compul&s;ion in this ca&s;e, is not to extort a profe&s;&s;ion from me again&s;t my judge|ment and con&s;cience, but to ingage me to rectifie and reforme my
<PB N="59" REF="35">judgment according to the truth, and &s;o to make profe&s;&s;ion accor|dingly.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, Fir&s;t, that I &s;tand already ingaged by a farre greater band hereunto, <HI>viz.</HI> my peace with God, and the &s;afety of my &s;oule, then &s;uffering temporally from the Civill power. Nor can it rea|&s;onably be here replied to me, that many will doe more for feare of a pre&s;ent temporall puni&s;hment, then of the future lo&s;&s;e of their &s;oules; becau&s;e they that will doe this, will be ready enough to com|ply with the Magi&s;trate in his Religion, what ever it be, without com|pul&s;ion. Secondly, if the intent of the temporall compul&s;ion bent a|gain&s;t me, be my engagement to rectifie my judgement according to the truth, &amp; then to profe&s;s accordingly, why is it di&s;charged upon me before it be known whether I have not di&s;charged &s;uch my engage|ments to the uttermo&s;t of my power, and yet am not able to call that truth, which the Magi&s;trate would have me &s;o to call?<NOTE PLACE="marg">Pro. 29.26.</NOTE> <HI>Many</HI> (&s;aith <HI>Solomon</HI>) <HI>&s;eek the face of the Ruler:</HI> and who would not gladly &s;econd the Magi&s;trate in his Religion, if he had his judgement and con&s;cience in his own hand or power?</P>
<P N="5">5. If the civill Magi&s;trate hath an actuall coercive power to &s;up|pre&s;&s;e Schi&s;mes, Here&s;ies, &amp;c. becau&s;e he is <HI>truly Chri&s;tian,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 32.</NOTE> which he had not before, then truth of Chri&s;tianity alters the property and tenour of Magi&s;tracie, and that for the wor&s;e, in re&s;pect of tho&s;e that are in &s;ubjection to it; yea, and (po&s;&s;ibly) in re&s;pect of the be&s;t of tho&s;e that are in &s;uch &s;ubjection. Before he was <HI>truly Christian,</HI> he had (&s;aith <HI>A. S.</HI> and Presbyterians generally) no power to puni&s;h, fine, impri&s;on, bani&s;h, cru&s;h any of his Subjects for the exerci&s;e of their con&s;cience towards God: but by vertue of that great mercy vouch|&s;afed unto him by God, in giving him part and fellow&s;h&s;hip with the Saints in Je&s;us Chri&s;t, he is inve&s;ted with a new power to per&s;ecute the Saints, and to make them pay dearly for having con&s;ciences better (it may be) then his own, at lea&s;t better then to comply outwardly with what they cannot inwardly dige&s;t and approve. If this be the ca&s;e between a Chri&s;tian, and the Civill Magi&s;trate under whom he lives, he hath &s;mall incouragement to pray for the conver&s;ion of &s;uch a Magi&s;trate to the truth, in ca&s;e he were for the pre&s;ent, Heterodox, or Pagan; it being farre better for him to live under &s;uch a Magi&s;tracie, which hath no power to mi&s;-u&s;e him for his con&s;cience &s;ake, then un|der that which hath; yea, and is made to beleeve, that it ought to u&s;e it accordingly.</P>
<P N="6">6. That power is very dangerous for a Magi&s;trate to own, in the
<PB N="60" REF="36">exerci&s;e whereof, he may very ea&s;ily (and commonly doth) run an hazard (at lea&s;t) <HI>of fighting again&s;t God,</HI> or of <HI>plucking up</HI> that which God hath <HI>planted,</HI> or of pulling down that which God hath built up. But is that power of &s;uppre&s;&s;ing Schi&s;mes, Here&s;ies, &amp;c. which <HI>A. S. Cum multis aliis,</HI> are very earne&s;t to fa&s;ten upon him. <HI>Ergo,</HI> The Pro|po&s;ition (I conceive) is too much every mans &s;en&s;e and con&s;ent, to be <HI>A. S.</HI> his di&s;&s;ent. The A&s;&s;umption I demon&s;trate by this rea&s;on: Be|cau&s;e tho&s;e practices and opinions in Religion, which the Magi&s;trate is born in hand by tho&s;e, with who&s;e eys hee &s;ees in &s;uch ca&s;es, are &s;chi&s;maticall, erroneous, and contrary unto God; may very po&s;&s;ibly be the ways of God, and truths of God (&s;uch mens judgements of them notwith&s;tanding.) For fir&s;t, the judgements of the&s;e men are not Apo|&s;tolicall, or infallible. <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf, who makes his demands for Pres|byterian &s;overaignty, as high as another, yet dares not lay claim to this crown. Therefore it's po&s;&s;ible for them to be in a mi&s;pri&s;ion about &s;ome Que&s;tion, or controver&s;all point in Religion. Secondly, fre|quent experience &s;hews, that a minor part (yea, a party for number in|con&s;iderable) of godly per&s;ons in a Church or State, may have the minde of God and of Chri&s;t among them in &s;ome particulars, before the generality or major part of this Church, comes to be inlightened or intere&s;&s;ed in it. For a proofe whereof <HI>ad hominem,</HI> we need go no further, then to that party of godly per&s;ons in the Land, who &s;tood up in Queen <HI>Elizabeths</HI> &amp; King <HI>James</HI> his days, for Presbyteriall Govern|ment, when as the far greater part, both of Magi&s;trates and Mini&s;ters in the Kingdome, were in their judgements oppo&s;ite hereunto, and wholly Epi&s;copall. So that had that Queen or King, or any Parliament under them, gone about to &s;uppre&s;s that party, which yet was then look'd upon as &s;chi&s;maticall, factious, and erroneous, they had (ac|cording to <HI>A.S.</HI> his judgement, touching the judgement of tho&s;e men) <HI>fought again&s;t God,</HI> and &s;ought to pluck up that which he hath planted. Yea, thirdly, (and la&s;tly) it &s;eldome or never falls out, that any truth which hath for a long time been under hatches, and unknown to the gen<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">rality of Mini&s;ters and other learned men in a Church or State, hath been at the fir&s;t, and on the &s;udden, di&s;covered by God, either unto the generality, or major part of them, but unto &s;ome few only, yea, and &s;ometimes but unto one (for a &s;ea&s;on) by, and from whom, he is plea&s;ed to propagate the light and knowledge of it unto more afterwards. If then the Magi&s;trate &s;hould ri&s;e up to &s;uppre&s;s this truth, or tho&s;e that hold it forth unto the world, becau&s;e it hath few friends and many enemies among&s;t the Ma&s;ters in his I&s;rael, and is generally
<PB N="61" REF="36">look'd upon as a &s;chi&s;maticall and erroneous opinion, &s;hould he not (in <HI>Gamaliel's</HI> &s;en&s;e) <HI>fight again&s;t God?</HI> The <HI>hou&s;holder</HI> in the Parable for|bad the <HI>plucking up of the Tares out of his field, for fear of plucking up the Wheat with them,</HI> Matth. 13.29.</P>
<P N="7">7. That power which was never attributed to the civill Magi&s;trate,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 34.</NOTE> by any Chri&s;tians, but only by tho&s;e that had very good a&s;&s;urance that it &s;hould be u&s;ed for them, and on their &s;ide, is not like to be a power appertaining to them by divine right, or conferr'd upon them by God. The rea&s;on of this Propo&s;ition is, becau&s;e it is no wayes credible, that within the compa&s;s of &s;o many ages as are by-gone, no one man of that con&s;cientious generation of Saints, which hath been wont &s;o frequent|ly to deny it &s;elf even unto death, &s;hould acknowledge &s;uch a power in the civill Magi&s;trate, as did by divine right belong unto him, only becau&s;e &s;uch an acknowledgement was like to make again&s;t him&s;elf. Therefore I a&s;&s;ume: But that <HI>coercive power in matters of Religion,</HI> for the &s;uppre&s;&s;ing of errours, &s;chi&s;mes, here&s;ies, &amp;c. was never attri|buted to the civill Magi&s;trate by any Chri&s;tian,<NOTE PLACE="marg">See for the further proof of the minor Propo&s;ition, M^r <HI>Io. Robin|&s;ons</HI> E&s;&s;ayes, <HI>p.</HI> 49.50, <HI>&amp;c.</HI></NOTE> but only by tho&s;e that were very confident, that it would be u&s;ed for their turns, and to effect their de&s;ires. <HI>Ergo, A. S.</HI> him&s;elf is wary and tender above mea&s;ure in conferring it upon him; di&s;tingui&s;hing once and again, and the third time al&s;o upon it (as wee heard) bef<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">re he dares let him have it; yea, and in the clo&s;e, doth as much (in effect) as tell him, that except hee be Presbyterian right down, and will accommodate him and his party with it, he ought not to claim it.</P>
<P N="8">8. That power which in the exerci&s;e of it, directly tends to pre|vent,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 35.</NOTE> hinder, or &s;uppre&s;s the growth and increa&s;e of the light of the knowledge of God, and Je&s;us Chri&s;t in a Church or State, and the Re|formation of &s;uch things, whether in Doctrine or Di&s;cipline, as are unwarrantable therein, is not (que&s;tionle&s;s) of any Divine right or In|&s;titution. If <HI>A. S.</HI> deny this Propo&s;ition, at the perill of his mode&s;ty and reputation be it. So then I a&s;&s;ume; But &s;uch a power in the civill Magi&s;trate as we &s;peak of, directly tends to all the mi&s;chief and incon|venience mentioned. <HI>Ergo,</HI> The evidence of the a&s;&s;umption is this: when men are obnoxious to the &s;troke of the civill power, and in dan|ger of &s;uffering deeply from the Magi&s;trate, for any thing that they &s;hall hold or practi&s;e in Religion contrary unto him, it mu&s;t needs be a great tentation and di&s;couragement upon them, from &s;earching and Inquiring into the Scriptures, after a more exact knowledge of <HI>the good and holy, and perfect will of God</HI> in things; becau&s;e in ca&s;e hee &s;hould di&s;cover any thing contrary to what the Magi&s;trate profe&s;&s;eth, hee
<PB N="62" REF="37">mu&s;t run the hazard, either of <HI>with-holding the truth</HI> hee &s;o di&s;covers, <HI>in unrighteou&s;ne&s;s,</HI> and &s;o of having both God and his own con&s;cience his enemy, or el&s;e of having his bones broken by the iron rod of the civill Magi&s;trate, for m<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">king profe&s;&s;ion of any thing contrary to that which he profe&s;&s;eth.</P>
<P N="9">9. That power which in the u&s;e of it plainly and palpably tends to the gratification of Satan,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 36.</NOTE> carnall and prophane men, is not (certainly) derived from God. To prove this Propo&s;ition, would be but the lighting up of a torch to &s;ee the Sun. I a&s;&s;ume; But that <HI>power in mat|ters of Religion,</HI> to cru&s;h &s;chi&s;mes, here&s;ies, &amp;c. which is by <HI>A. S.</HI> and many others, pinn'd upon the Magi&s;trates &s;leeve, is a power of this tendencie and importance in the u&s;e of it. <HI>Ergo.</HI> This latter Propo&s;iti|on &s;hines clear enough with this light. Fir&s;t, a very great part (if not far the greate&s;t) of tho&s;e that are like to &s;uffer by it, are men of good con&s;cience, and truly fearing God. This is manife&s;t in the Apologi&s;ts and men of their judgement, whom <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf, over and over (though condemning him&s;elf, <HI>toties quoties</HI>) acknowledgeth for very <HI>pious and godly men.</HI> Nor is it like that (ordinarily) men of loo&s;e or no con&s;cience, &s;hould delight to &s;wim again&s;t the &s;treams, either of greatne&s;s or plurality, in matters of Religion. Now then it cannot but be conceived to be matter of &s;olemn gratification to Satan, who is a murtherer, <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">nd blood enemy to the Saints, to &s;ee them di&s;graced, cru&s;hed, troden and trampled upon, e&s;pecially by tho&s;e, whom God hath appointed to be their protectours, and mo&s;t of all, that this grie|vous mea&s;ure &s;hould be mea&s;ured out unto them for the goodne&s;s of their con&s;ciences towards God.</P>
<P>Secondly, It is the impatient and importune de&s;ire of all ignorant, loo&s;e, luke-warm and carnall profe&s;&s;ors, to have all Religions, (as they call them) all wayes, &s;ects, opinions, and practices in Religion, wholly &s;i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">enc'd, &s;uppre&s;s'd, and aboli&s;hed where they live, excepting only that one way and practice, which &s;hall be authori&s;ed and practi&s;ed by the State. Becau&s;e by this means, they hope they &s;hall not be di&s;tracted about their Religion, nor be put upon that &s;ore trouble of &s;eeking it they know not where, or among&s;t whom; but &s;hall have it put into their mouths by the hand of Authority; which they hope likewi&s;e will &s;tand between them and harm, in ca&s;e it &s;hould not prove a Religion of that purity and goodne&s;s, which God requireth.</P>
<P N="10">10. (And la&s;tly) That power which in the u&s;e of it,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 37.</NOTE> directly tends to defile and pollute the con&s;ciences of men, either by de&s;troying the &s;oftne&s;s, tenderne&s;s, and ingenuity of them, or by di&s;turbing the law|full
<PB N="63" REF="37">peace and comfort of them, or by both, is a power from be|neath, not from above. (This Propo&s;ition al&s;o, a con&s;cience any whit ingenuous, cannot lightly deny) But &s;uch is the <HI>coercive power in matters of Religion,</HI> wherewith <HI>A. S.</HI> would fain befriend him&s;elf, in the civill Magi&s;trate. <HI>Ergo.</HI> The truth of the A&s;&s;umption appears in this con&s;ideration: When the con&s;cience of a man hath once broke the bands and tie of its own light, and pro&s;tituted it &s;elf to the de&s;ires and plea&s;ures of men, again&s;t the grain of its own judgement and incli|nation (whereunto it is &s;orely tempted and urged, when the man is threatned deep, in ca&s;e he &s;hall not comply with the State in their Religion, his judgement and con&s;cience being wholly aver&s;e to it) one of the&s;e two great evils or mi&s;eries commonly befalls him. Either 1. God takes no more plea&s;ure in &s;uch a con&s;cience afterwards, but withdrawing him&s;elf from it, leaves it unto it &s;elf, whereupon &s;ecret|ly (as it were) re&s;enting the departure of God from it, it falls upon a cour&s;e of hardening it &s;elf, and by degrees contracts a boldne&s;s, im|pudence, and de&s;peratene&s;s in &s;inning; as a woman by &s;uffering a breach to be made upon her mode&s;tie or cha&s;tity once, often be|comes facile and prone to that kinde of &s;inning afterwards; or el&s;e, 2. by reflecting upon what it hath done in &s;uch a ca&s;e, and feeding night and day upon the &s;ad thoughts of its own act, and ca&s;ting it up between God and it &s;elf, how grievous a &s;in it is, to trample upon its own light, for any mans &s;ake, or upon any con&s;ideration what&s;oever, it brings it &s;elf into grievous agonies of perplexity, and horrour, out of which it never recovers afterward.</P>
<P>Thus I have given <HI>A. S.</HI> an account of my pre&s;ent thoughts, touching that <HI>coercitive power in matters of Religion,</HI> which hee is &s;o importune to put into the civill Magi&s;trates hand, with both his own; making it as &s;trange and uncouth a matter, as a <HI>new Independ neio</HI> a|mounts unto (<HI>pag.</HI> 60.) that any man &s;hould not give the righ<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> hand of fellow&s;hip to his conceit herein. Whic<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> yet notwith&s;tanding I &s;hall be mo&s;t willing and ready to do, if the man wil<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> bu<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> do mee the courte&s;ie &s;olidly and theologue-like, by rea&s;on, and not by vote, that is, unan&s;werably to an&s;wer the ten arguments propunded. For I profe&s;s ingenuou&s;ly, there is nothing &s;eparates between mee and his judgement in the point in hand, but only tho&s;e ten rea&s;ons, with their fellows; and if I were able to an&s;wer them my &s;elf, I would abate the condition required to the bargain, and purcha&s;e my agree|ment with him by mine own labour.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="3" TYPE="chapter">
<PB N="64" REF="38">
<HEAD><HI>Chap. 3.</HI> Concerning Presbyterie, or Cla&s;&s;ique Government of Churches, whether it be founded upon the Scriptures, or what foundation it hath otherwi&s;e.</HEAD>
<P>IT is ea&s;ie to ob&s;erve (and yet well worth the ob&s;erving) how <HI>A. S.</HI> his hand trembleth and &s;haketh in drawing the line of the de&s;cent and p<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">degree of his Presbyteriall Government; hee knows not well where to finde the &s;our&s;e, fir&s;t &s;pring, or originall of it. Hee is be|tween the Scriptures on the one hand, and the law of nature on the other; as the Poet de&s;cribes a fierce Tygre between two droves or herds of cattell.</P>
<Q>Ne&s;cit utr&ograve; potius ruat, &amp; ruere ardet utro&abque;</Q>
<P>He knows not which he had be&s;t fall upon, but hath a great minde to fa&s;ten upon both. When he hath occa&s;ion to skirmi&s;h with the Apolo|gi&s;ts upon this point, me thinks I &s;ee him traver&s;ing his ground, as if he trod upon hot Irons; he treads daintily and tenderly, and &s;hifts his &s;teppings to and again, off and on, as if he felt no ground under him, but that whereof he was jealous. And it &s;eems, that for the whole fami|ly it &s;elf of per&s;ons ingaged in <HI>A. S.</HI> his judgement about Church-government, though they be but one, re&s;olutely enough agreed for the government it &s;elf; yet there are great divi&s;ions of heart among&s;t them concerning the parentage and de&s;cent of it. Some out of a de&s;ire to have it the more adored and reverenced in the world, will needs have it to be of the hou&s;e and lineage of <HI>Johns</HI> Bapti&s;me, <HI>viz.</HI> from heaven, from the Scriptures; Others of them, fearing that genealogie to be &s;o perplexed and intricate, that it is fitter to make &s;trife and que&s;tions of, then d<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">mon&s;tration and &s;atisfaction, think it better to wave that title, and claim, and to content them&s;elves with a Meropean, in &s;tead of a Phoebean parentage for it; to ri&s;e no higher then the liberty or power of the Church it &s;elf, to &s;eek its originall. Which cleft in the hou&s;e con&s;idered, it was a very prudent &s;poke put into the wheel of the Apo|logi&s;ts, by him that gave coun&s;ell (if all tales be true) at no hand to have it put to vote, whether Presbyteriall Government could be pro|ved from the Scriptures, or no. Such a vote as this might very po&s;|&s;ibly have prov'd of as interruptory a con&s;equence to the builders of this Government, as the confu&s;ion of tongues &s;ometimes did to buil|ders of another fabrick.</P>
<P>But <HI>A.S.</HI> is A per&s;e A, for ought that ever yet I could hear (&s;ave on|ly from his own pen) in making <HI>&s;ubordination,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 2.</NOTE> <HI>between &s;uperiour and in|feriour
<PB N="65" REF="38">Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Judicatories,</HI> i. (in plain Engli&s;h) Presbyteriall Government, to be <HI>partim juris divini, partim naturalis aut mixti;</HI> part|ly of divine right, partly of naturall or mixt: which yet is his D<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ci|&s;ion, <HI>pag.</HI> 27. When he affirmes <HI>pag.</HI> 36. that his Presbyteriall power <HI>needs not any pattern formally, and expre&s;sly from Chri&s;t, it &s;ufficeth that it hath one from nature;</HI> would not a man think that he waves the Scrip|tures in the que&s;tion, as being compleatly furni&s;hed otherwi&s;e to make good his &s;tanding? And yet within a few lines after, he glories too in the &s;uperfluous and over-abounding contributions of the Scrip|tures to him: <HI>And yet</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>we can &s;hew a patent for it, not onely from the Law of Nature, which &s;hould &s;uffice, but al&s;o from the Law of Grace, in the old and new Te&s;tament.</HI> In other places, hee &s;eemes wholly to decline the Law of Nature, as if men by their prudentials or power in any kind, had nothing to doe to in&s;titute or &s;et up any power in the Church, but by expre&s;&s;e order and warrant from God in the Scrip|tures. <HI>It is onely in God</HI> (&s;aith he <HI>pag.</HI> 48.) <HI>who is a King in this &s;pirituall Kingdome, a Ma&s;ter in this Hou&s;e, a Father in this Family, who can give power therein unto any man; we dare not be &s;o bold, &amp;c.</HI> and pag. 61. <HI>Veritie con&s;isteth not in the middle of this or that, which yee imagine, but in a confor|mity of our conceptions with their object, and due mea&s;ure, which in this mat|ter is onely Gods word revealed in the Scriptures: and according to this rule I take Presbyterian government rather, &amp;c.</HI> And yet one more, page 34. <HI>Combined Presbyteries (qua tota, &s;ed non qua totaliter con&s;iderata,</HI> i. no man can tell how or which way) <HI>judge of points of doctrine, and di&s;cipline already revealed in the holy Scriptures, and give us new Eccle&s;ia&s;tical. Laws of things indifferent, and &s;o teach and rule the Churches,</HI> &amp;c. Come <HI>A.S.</HI> let you and I conferre lovingly of the&s;e affaires before we part.</P>
<P N="1">1. I wonder much, that having two Nations (at lea&s;t,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 3.</NOTE> if not more) in your own bowels, &s;uch materiall differences as have been touched in your Presbyterian Tribe; nay, that having line again&s;t line, page again&s;t page, leafe again&s;t leafe in your own book, you &s;hou'd be no more compa&s;&s;ionate towards your brethren the Apologi&s;ts, then to bebrand them with differences among&s;t them&s;elves, as you doe more then once, and that with much bitterne&s;&s;e, <HI>pag.</HI> 69. and el&s;where.</P>
<Q>Si vari&acirc;&s;&s;e vocas crimen, variavimus ambo.</Q>
<P N="2">2. The differences that are among&s;t the Apologi&s;ts and men of their judgement,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 4.</NOTE> about the way of their government, are nothing con&s;ide|rable in re&s;pect of yours. They differ but in their haire, and you in your heads. They differ among them&s;elves, but as one &s;tarre d<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ffe|reth
<PB N="66" REF="39">from another; you differ between your &s;elves as much as heaven &amp; earth. They all as one man unanimou&s;ly affirm, that their way of go|vernment is Canonicall, and of Divine a&s;&s;ertion; you are divided a|bour the authority of your way, &s;ome making it Canonicall, others A|pocryphall, &s;ome fetching it from the &s;tarres, others from the du&s;t.</P>
<Q>Hinccaput at&abque; illinc, humero ex utro&abque; pependit.</Q>
<P>By the way, the ingenuous di&s;&s;ent of that party among&s;t you, who cannot &s;ay that they &s;ee any lineament of Heaven in the face of your Government, being yet wel-willers, and friends of affections large e|nough unto it, is unto me as little le&s;&s;e then a demon&s;tration as may be, that your way is but from men, and not from God. For as the &s;aying is, <HI>Quid non &s;entit amor?</HI> If there were any thing in the Scrip|tures that did but look merrily, or ca&s;t a plau&s;ible glance upon your way, would not they that are &s;o entirely devoted both in their judg|ments and affections to it, find it out? yea and double and treble the &s;ympathy and &s;trength of it with their imaginations? As it is the propertie of Love, to <HI>cover a multitude of &s;innes</HI> or tre&s;pa&s;&s;es, that are, (<HI>Prov.</HI> 10.12.) &s;o is it a property likewi&s;e of the &s;ame af|fection to di&s;cover a multitude of plea&s;ing accommodations which are not.</P>
<P>Be&s;ides, it is &s;omewhat more then a mote in the eye of your unitie, that <HI>in &s;ome Churches</HI> (of your Presbyteriall calculation) <HI>particular or Parochial Senats or Con&s;i&s;tories, have power to &s;u&s;pend from their communi|on, tho&s;e that be members thereof; yea al&s;o to excommunicate them, &amp;c.</HI> This is your own bounteous acknowledgment, <HI>p.</HI> 26. I thought that &s;uch a mi&s;demeanour as this in the State Presbyterial, had been of Cla&s;&s;ick vindication, at the lea&s;t.</P>
<P N="3">3. If Presbyterian government <HI>needeth no formall or expre&s;&s;e patterne from Chri&s;t,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 5.</NOTE> then either it hath none &s;uch from him, or this patterne where&s;oever it is found, is but a &s;uperfluitie or impertinencie of Scrip|ture. But that there is nothing &s;uperfluous or impertinent in the Scriptures, is a glory a&s;&s;erted unto them by the holy Gho&s;t him&s;elfe, 2 <HI>Tim.</HI> 3.16. <HI>A<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">l Scripture is given by in&s;piration of God, and is profi|table &amp;c.</HI> Therefore by <HI>A. S.</HI> his own confe&s;&s;ion, his government hath <HI>no formallor expre&s;&s;e pattern from Chri&s;t.</HI> In one &s;en&s;e it may be granted, that Presbyterian government <HI>needeth no formall,</HI> nor yet materiall <HI>pat|tern</HI> from Chri&s;t, <HI>viz</HI> in &s;uch a &s;en&s;e, as it may truly be &s;aid, that Ca|&s;tles in the aire need no reparation. But,</P>
<P N="4">4. If your government <HI>needs no formall or expre&s;&s;e pattern from Chri&s;t,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 6.</NOTE>
<PB N="67" REF="39">we would gladly know whether it needs any <HI>material</HI> or <HI>implicite</HI> pat|tern from him, or what it needs from him, whether &s;omething or no|thing. But if you under&s;tood, or would plea&s;e but to con&s;ider the <HI>nece&s;|&s;ities</HI> of it, I verily beleeve you would confe&s;&s;e that it did &s;tand in need of <HI>that formall and expre&s;s pattern</HI> from him, which you &s;peak of. You &s;ee that for want of &s;uch a <HI>pattern</HI> it drives but heavily,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Prov. 8.12.</NOTE> and is long in getting up into its throne; it hath lo&s;t many a merry day already, &amp; yet daily meets with &s;uch conte&s;tations, oppo&s;itions, contradictions, from &s;ober, wi&s;e, learned &amp; religious men, that it is like to reigne but in the fire of contention, and with the &s;orrow and &s;adnes of many &s;uch hearts as Chri&s;t would not have made &s;ad. And all this calamity befalls it for want of a <HI>formall and expre&s;&s;e pattern from Chri&s;t:</HI> And yet hath it no need hereof? Surely it is very magnanimous, and high-&s;pirited, to be able to beare all this heavie pre&s;&s;ure of mi&s;ery upon it, and yet pro|fe&s;&s;e that it &s;tands in no need of that which would ea&s;e it.</P>
<P N="5">5. If <HI>it needs no formall expre&s;s pattern from Chri&s;t,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 7.</NOTE> we would wil|lingly be informed, what pattern it is, which (you boa&s;t) <HI>you can &s;hew from the Law of Grace for it in the Old and New Te&s;tament.</HI> We &s;uppo&s;e that it &s;tands in need of all that you <HI>can &s;hew for it,</HI> either from the <HI>Law of Nature,</HI> or of <HI>Grace,</HI> either <HI>from the Old Te&s;tament,</HI> or from <HI>the New,</HI> and much more. You tell us, you <HI>can</HI> &s;hew pattern upon pat|tern, but &s;hew none. Surely you would be thought to doe very nobly; <HI>Po&s;&s;e &amp; nolle, nobile.</HI> You do not &s;hew us, but only tell us, (p. 41.) that <HI>if we will, we may &s;ee it in the ordinarie practice of the Church of the Jewes in the Old Te&s;tament.</HI> It &s;eems that &s;ight you have of your Presbyteriall Government, either in this <HI>practice of the Jewi&s;h Church,</HI> or in any other pa&s;&s;age, or part of Scripture, depends upon your <HI>wills:</HI> you are <HI>wil|ling</HI> to &s;ee it, and therefore you &s;ee it. Otherwi&s;e, why &s;hould you tell us that we may &s;ee it, <HI>if we will?</HI> you are happy men, who have your eyes dependant upon your <HI>wills,</HI> and &s;o can &s;ee what you plea&s;e, or have a mind to &s;ee: <HI>Nobis non licet e&s;&s;e tam di&s;ertis;</HI> our wills depend upon our eyes; we dare not will any thing, but what wee fir&s;t <HI>&s;ee,</HI> to be the <HI>will</HI> and mind of God. It is no marvell, that you ca&s;t it as a &s;ore a&s;per&s;ion upon the Apologi&s;ts (p. 4.) that you &s;aw them no wayes <HI>minded to &s;ubmit them&s;elves</HI> (in the&s;e matters of con&s;cience) <HI>to the de|&s;ires of the Parliament.</HI> I verily beleeve, that did their <HI>judgements</HI> de|pend upon their <HI>wills,</HI> as it &s;eems yours doe, they would have been as freely willing to have &s;ubmitted in all things, unto the de&s;ires of the Pa<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">liament, as you are. But,</P>
<P N="6">6. If our wills be weak,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 8.</NOTE> and thereby are hindred from &s;eeing that goodly vi&s;ion of Presbyterian Government in the <HI>practice of the Jewi&s;h
<PB N="68" REF="40">Church,</HI> which you &s;ee, what doe you contribute or afford us towards the healing and &s;trengthening of them? Nay, doe you not rather oc|ca&s;ion that which is weak in this kind, to be <HI>quite turned out of the way?</HI> For when you tell us (as you doe pag. 13.) 1. that <HI>the adaequate end of your Presbyteriall government, is the externall peace of the Church.</HI> And 2. that the power thereof con&s;i&s;ts, fir&s;t, <HI>in the creation, &s;u&s;pen&s;ion and de|po&s;ition of Church-officers: &s;econdly, in determining matters of Doctrine: thirdly, in making Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall lawes concerning things indifferent, &amp;c.</HI> (all which you tell us on a heap, pag. 42.) you both make us very loth and unwilling to find your government there; and withall very confi|dent that there it is not to be found. For,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 9.</NOTE> was the <HI>adaequate end</HI> of the government of that Church, the <HI>externall peace</HI> of the Church? Had it nothing in de&s;igne, for the &s;piri|tuall good, for the edification of the members of it in knowledge, faith, and holine&s;&s;e? Was the power of the high Prie&s;t given him on|ly to keep the Church in externall peace? I thought that to provide for the externall peace of the Church, had rather appertained to the civill Magi&s;trate and government, then to the Eccle&s;ia&s;tick; and it is the Apo&s;tle him&s;elf that thus thoughteth me, 1 <HI>Tim.</HI> 2.2. where he enjoyneth; that <HI>&s;upplications, prayers,</HI> &amp;c. be made <HI>for Kings and all that are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, in all god|line&s;&s;e and hone&s;ty.</HI></P>
<P>Secondly, neither doe I find in the practi&s;e of that Church, any power given to the combined rulers and governours thereof, for the creation, &s;u&s;pen&s;ion, depo&s;ition of Church-officers. I read of the de|po&s;ition of a Church-officer (and no mean one neither) by the Civill Magi&s;trate, 1. <HI>King.</HI> 2.27. <HI>So Solomon ca&s;t out Abiathar from being Prie&s;t unto the Lord, &amp;c.</HI> but of any &s;uch depo&s;ition by the combined ru|lers of that Church, I remember not that I have read. But,</P>
<P N="3">3. As for any power of <HI>determining matters of Doctrine,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 10.</NOTE> this is fur|ther out of my ken in the <HI>practice of that Church,</HI> then any thing el&s;e. I know not well what <HI>A. S.</HI> means by his phra&s;e of <HI>Determining mat|ters of Doctrine;</HI> but in my notion, and in the Grammaticall and pro|per &s;en&s;e of the word, <HI>Determine,</HI> the claim of &s;uch a power ri&s;eth up as a high partition-wall between me and his Government. If by a <HI>power of determining matters of doctrine,</HI> he meanes nothing el&s;e but a liberty or ability of di&s;cu&s;&s;ing and arguing &s;uch matters, and of recom|mending the i&s;&s;ues and re&s;ults of &s;uch di&s;cu&s;&s;ions, unto the Churches, as con&s;onant (in their judgements) to the truth, with a propo&s;all of their de&s;ires unto the Churches, to con&s;ider well of them, and to em|brace
<PB N="69" REF="40">them, if they can &s;o judge and conceive of them, I have nothing to oppo&s;e again&s;t this power. But if by his <HI>power to determine matters of Religion,</HI> he means a power of concluding or defining, what men &s;hall be bound in con&s;cience to receive and beleeve for truth, and &s;hal be look'd upon as &s;inning, in ca&s;e they doe it not, whether they &s;ee &s;uf|ficient ground for what is &s;o concluded, and obtruded upon them, or not, (which I partly beleeve to be <HI>A. S.</HI> his &s;en&s;e, I am &s;ure is the proper &s;en&s;e of the word) &s;uch a power is, (and I think ever will bee) the fir&s;t-born of the abhorrings of my &s;oul. I confe&s;&s;e I cannot be over-confident that <HI>A.S.</HI> intends the re&s;idence of &s;uch a power as this, in his Presbyterian A&s;&s;emblies; partly, becau&s;e he &s;peakes &s;omewhat like a man in this behalfe el&s;ewhere, &s;uppo&s;ing it to be <HI>&s;afe even for a few men to di&s;&s;ent from all the world,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Paget De|fence of Church go|vernment. pag. 29.</NOTE> in ca&s;e they have <HI>very &s;trong rea&s;ons for their di&s;&s;ent,</HI> pag. 22. and requires no &s;ubjection in <HI>particular Congregations unto the judgment of Senats or A&s;&s;emblies, but according to Gods word, pag.</HI> 28. (I tru&s;t he means, &s;o apprehended by the congregation; without this there is no &s;ubjection according to Gods word.) And again, pag. 68. acknowledgeth it as <HI>an undoubted maxime, that the church hath no ab|&s;olute power in her judgments,</HI> &amp;c. with many &s;avoury expre&s;&s;ions in this kind; partly al&s;o, becau&s;e I find this indulgence generally &s;ub&s;cribed with Presbyterian pens, <HI>That the authority which Cla&s;&s;es and Synods ex|erci&s;e, is not ab&s;olute, nor their Decrees held to be infallible, but to be exami|ned by the word of God, and not to be received further then they do agree b<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">re|with.</HI> And yet on the other hand I confe&s;&s;e, that I cannot conceive, or comprehend how <HI>A.S.</HI> his government can hold up her head like her &s;elfe, if this Iron-mace be taken out of her hand. For my part, if this one Article of a liberty to wave Presbyteriall Injunctions and Deci|&s;ions, in ca&s;e of a <HI>non liquet</HI> from the word of God, to him, to whom they are tendered, will bee but a&s;&s;ented unto, and candidly kept and performed, it would be the be&s;t Mediator I know to reconcile my thoughts and judgement to it.</P>
<P N="4">4. Nor can I in the practice of the Jewi&s;h Church,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 13.</NOTE> find either <HI>vola</HI> or <HI>ve&s;tigium</HI> of a <HI>power</HI> granted unto the Rulers thereof, to make Eccle&s;ia|&s;ticall laws <HI>concerning things indifferent;</HI> I rather find a prohibition &s;er|ved upon them for making any &s;uch laws; <HI>Ye &s;hall put nothing unto the word which I command you, nor &s;hall you take ought therefrom, &amp;c.</HI> Deut. 4.2. So again, Chap. 12.32. If <HI>A. S.</HI> can but produce one example of any &s;uch Law or Con&s;titution made by them, he &s;hall be a good benefactor to the penury of my notions; and in con&s;ideration thereof, I will be|&s;tow upon him a da&s;hing out of this peece of his charge.</P>
<P N="5"><PB N="70" REF="41">
5. And la&s;tly,<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Sect.</HI> 12.</NOTE> in the practice of the Jewi&s;h Church, the Prelaticall Schoole &s;ees a vi&s;ion or platforme of her government al&s;o. And <HI>A.S.</HI> by your leave, the High-Prie&s;t as well in his Authoritie as in his robes and holy accoutrements, did farre more plau&s;ibly &s;ympathize with Metropoliticall &s;tate and greatne&s;&s;e, then with Presbyteriall. For my part, I am not able to di&s;cern in all the practice of the Jewi&s;h Church, from the one end of it unto the other, any peece, &s;traine, or veine of &s;uch a <HI>patterne</HI> as <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;peaks of. Surely the vi&s;ion is &s;o condition'd, as not to be &s;een but upon Presbyterian ground. The man did wi&s;ely in granting that he had <HI>no formall or expre&s;&s;e patterne</HI> for his govern|ment either <HI>from the Old</HI> or <HI>New Te&s;tament:</HI> but he &s;hould have done more ingenuou&s;ly to have added, <HI>no nor yet any materiall</HI> or <HI>implicit patterne neither.</HI> For if he hath any <HI>materiall patterne,</HI> it is &s;o purely <HI>ma|teriall,</HI> that it may contend with <HI>materia prima</HI> it &s;elfe for the prize of Invi&s;ibilitie. If he hath any <HI>implicit,</HI> it is wrapt up under &s;o many folds and pleights of ob&s;curity, that no &s;eeing eye is able to pierce through to it.</P>
<P>But doe we not give &s;entence too &s;oon? It may be his <HI>pattern from the New Te&s;tament</HI> will carry it, though that from the Old refus'd to meddle with it. But where &s;hall we &s;eek this? He tells us, pag. 41. <HI>That we may &s;ee it in the Hi&s;tory of the New Te&s;tament, in the judgement given out at the Synod</HI> (either truly or untruly &s;o called) of <HI>Hieru&s;alem, concerning the bu&s;ine&s;&s;e of Antiochia.</HI> What po&s;&s;ibly <HI>we may &s;ee</HI> in length and time, is not ea&s;ie to determine for the pre&s;ent; but I have both more hope and feare of &s;eeing a thou&s;and other things (which yet I cannot certainly &s;ay, that I &s;hall &s;ee) then I have of either, ever to &s;ee Cla&s;&s;icall proceedings demon&s;trated out of that pa&s;&s;age of Scripture. Nor doth <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;o much as put forth his little finger towards &s;uch a Demon&s;tration, but contents him&s;elfe (for the pre&s;ent) to threaten us with his own <HI>hope,</HI> of <HI>&s;eeing</HI> the bu&s;ines <HI>clearly demonstrated to us by a bet|ter <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">and ere long. Clear demon&s;trations</HI> of any thing from the Scriptures, &s;hall be very welcome to us at any time; but me thinks I &s;ee &s;uch in|&s;uperable difficulties in the way, that I feare that <HI>Demon&s;tration</HI> will never come out cleare. Yet becau&s;e I would help forward the <HI>clearnes</HI> of it what I can, I &s;hal make bold to propound unto him that either is, or &s;hall be the undertaker thereof, a few particulars, which (I humbly conceive) mu&s;t be &s;ub&s;tantially prov'd to make the <HI>Demonstration clear,</HI> at lea&s;t to me, and many others.</P>
<P N="1">1. It mu&s;t be prov'd, that the Apo&s;tles in that meeting at Jeru&s;a|lem, <HI>Acts</HI> 15.6. &s;ate there onely in the capacitie of ordinary Elders,
<PB N="71" REF="41">or Presbyters, and not as Apo&s;tles. <HI>i.</HI> that they wav'd or &s;ilenc'd the &s;pirit of infallibilitie which was given them, and fell to worke with the weak and fallible &s;pirits of other men; which is, as if a man &s;hould pull out his eyes to &s;ee with the holes.</P>
<P N="2">2. It mu&s;t further be prov'd, that this Councell at Ieru&s;alem had their &s;tate and &s;et times of meeting, as weekly, monthly, yearly, or the like, and that they did not a&s;&s;emble occa&s;ionally onely. For this is one of the high characters of Presbytery by <HI>A. S.</HI> his owne calculation, pag. 39.</P>
<P N="3">3. It mu&s;t yet be prov'd, that they had <HI>Authoritatem citationis,</HI> an au|thoritative power to cite and call before them whom they plea&s;ed with in the pale of Apo&s;tolicall juri&s;diction, that is, within the com|pa&s;&s;e of the whole world.</P>
<P N="4">4. It mu&s;t al&s;o be made cleere, that the Apo&s;tles and Elders that were members of this Synod, were &s;ent hereunto, by tho&s;e particular Churches, over whom they had right to claime Juri&s;diction, or inten|ded to include in their determinations.</P>
<P N="5">5. The <HI>Demon&s;tration</HI> will never bee <HI>cleare,</HI> till it be &s;ub&s;tantially prov'd, that there was none authorized to &s;it in that Councell, but onely Church-Officers and Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall men; the contrary hereof &s;eeming (at lea&s;t) very apparent, from <HI>ver.</HI> 22. &amp; 23.</P>
<P N="6">6. That likewi&s;e mu&s;t not be left unprov'd, that this Councell had power, as well to make new Laws of indifferent things, as to impo&s;e things nece&s;&s;ary upon the Churches. <HI>ver.</HI> 28.</P>
<P N="7">7. The Demon&s;trator to make his worke <HI>cleere</HI> and clever, mu&s;t prove that the Churches of Syria and Cilicia, had their Commi&s;&s;io|ners or Delegates, &s;itting authoritatively in this Synod, becau&s;e they are included in the Determination, <HI>ver.</HI> 23.</P>
<P N="8">8. It mu&s;t be prov'd likewi&s;e, that <HI>Paul</HI> and <HI>Barnabas</HI> &s;ate as Com|mi&s;&s;ioners upon the &s;ame terms for the Church of Antioch in this Synod.</P>
<P N="9">9. It mu&s;t be made to appeare, either that this Synod or Councell would have proceeded as now they did, whether they could have &s;aid, <HI>It &s;eemed good to the Holy Gho&s;t, and to us,</HI> or no, or that ordinary Sy|nods or A&s;&s;emblies may lawfully proceed as they did, though they have no &s;uch a&s;&s;urance of a concurrence of the Holy Gho&s;t with them, as they had.</P>
<P N="10">10. And la&s;tly, Proofe mu&s;t be made, that tho&s;e words in the clo&s;e of the Epi&s;tle (&s;ent from this Councell to the re&s;pective Churches)
<PB N="72" REF="42"><HI>yee &s;hall do well,</HI> ver. 29. are fulminative, &amp; import &s;ome &s;uch threat|ning or intimation as this, that if they did not &s;ubmit, &s;ome further cour&s;e mu&s;t be taken with them.</P>
<P>If all the&s;e particulars &s;hall be &s;ub&s;tantially cleered and proved, I &s;hall freely acknowledge that there is a plau&s;ible <HI>patterne</HI> for <HI>A.S.</HI> his Government, in the new Te&s;tament, but <HI>Hic labor, hoc opus e&s;t.</HI> I &s;hall not pre-judge any mans abilities; but for the pre&s;ent, I doe as much expect the fulfilling of that Poeticall Prophecie,
<Q>&V;nda dabit flammas, &amp; dabit ignis aquas,</Q> as I doe ever to &s;ee that fifteenth of the <HI>Acts,</HI> &s;afely deliver'd of the man-child cal'd <HI>Presbyterie.</HI></P>
<P>Therefore <HI>A. S.</HI> mu&s;t pardon us if as yet wee be not able to &s;ee any patterne at all of his Government, neither <HI>formall,</HI> nor <HI>materiall,</HI> nei|ther <HI>explicit,</HI> nor <HI>implicit,</HI> either in the old or new Te&s;tament.</P>
<P>Well, but yet the man hath one &s;tring to his bowe more; though <HI>Grace</HI> wil not relieve him, it may be <HI>nature</HI> will. He hath (as hee &s;aith) <HI>a patterne in the Law of Nature which will &s;uffice.</HI> They mu&s;t (I beleeve) have verie good appetites to Presbyterie, that will bee &s;uffic'd with this pattern. The Law of nature is a very va&s;t volume, and <HI>A. S.</HI> hath not quoted either page, leaf, or &s;ection of the book, &s;o that I know not whither to turne, or where to look for his patterne. But me thinks the man him&s;elfe hath given ample te&s;timonie to the <HI>Law of Nature,</HI> that it is no ways guiltie of, or acce&s;&s;arie to his Presbyterian Govern|ment. For that which cannot be made out, to the judgements and con&s;ciences of men, without the helpe of &s;uch an ho&s;t of &s;chola&s;tique, intricate, (if not inexplicable) di&s;tinctions, as <HI>A. S.</HI> is fain to leavie, and mu&s;ter together, <HI>p.</HI> 29. 30. 31. 32. &amp;c. before he can make either h<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ad or foot of his bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, what other originall or de&s;cent &s;oever it may claim, I know not, but (que&s;tionle&s;&s;e) <HI>the Law of Nature</HI> will not owne. The Law of nature &s;aith with one of natures &s;ons; <HI>Odi difficiles nugas:</HI> &s;he meddles not with &s;ubtilties, niceties, or curio&s;ities of di&s;tinctions. A man that is unlearned, and but of ordinarie capaci|tie, that &s;hall read the pages la&s;t quoted, may very po&s;&s;ibly take his odde and uncouth di&s;tinctions for names of unclean &s;pirits, and thinke that the man conjur's for his Government.</P>
<P>But will you plea&s;e to heare the names of his beagles, with which he follows his game, and hunts cla&s;&s;ique Law out of tho&s;e deep and dark caverns &amp; tullians of the earth where Nature had hid it, <HI>&s;tygii&s;&abque; admoveratumbris.</HI> The fir&s;t couple, <HI>Actus primus, &s;enior,</HI> and <HI>Actus &s;ecun|dus,
<PB N="73" REF="42">&s;enior.</HI> The &s;econd couple; <HI>Actus primus, junior,</HI> and <HI>Actus &s;ecundus junior.</HI> The third, <HI>Actus primus, tertius;</HI> and <HI>Actus &s;ecundus, tertius.</HI> The fourth, <HI>Actus &s;ignatus, &s;enior;</HI> and <HI>Actus exercitus, &s;enior.</HI> The fi&s;t, <HI>Actus &s;ignatus, junior;</HI> and <HI>Actus exercitus, junior.</HI> The &s;ixt, <HI>collectiv&egrave;</HI> and <HI>di&s;tributiv.</HI> The &s;eventh, <HI>formerly,</HI> and <HI>materially.</HI> The eight, <HI>To|tum &s;impliciter,</HI> and <HI>totum &amp; totaliter.</HI> The ninth, <HI>Omne &s;impliciter per omne,</HI> and <HI>pro omni &amp; omnino vel omnimodo.</HI> The tenth <HI>Totum, totaliter,</HI> and <HI>totum modificatum.</HI> The eleventh, <HI>Divi&s;im &amp; conjunctim.</HI> The twelfth, <HI>per &s;e,</HI> and <HI>per accidens:</HI> The thirteenth and la&s;t, <HI>Totum con|fu&s;um,</HI> and <HI>totum ordinatum.</HI> Can any rea&s;onable man imagine, that that conclu&s;ion or practi&s;e, which cannot be ju&s;tified or cleared to the under&s;tanding and con&s;cience of learned, pregnant and apprehen|&s;ive men (for the&s;e are no lettuces for illiterate lips) but by the con|tributions and engagements of all the&s;e di&s;tinctions (and &s;ome others not li&s;ted) &s;hould be &s;ufficiently contained in the <HI>Law of nature?</HI> The <HI>Law of nature</HI> is a book for every mans reading and under&s;tanding; but this volume of di&s;tinctions is &s;carce for any mans. If <HI>A. S.</HI> and his partie would but &s;pare the vulgar and common &s;ort of men (as there is neither rea&s;on, nor Religion but why they &s;hould) from putting their necks under the yoke of Cla&s;&s;ique Governement, untill they can plough with the&s;e heifers, I meane till he or they have made them capable of all the&s;e di&s;tinctions, for my part I &s;hould not feare much danger or inconvenience from it, except it were the intercepting or &s;u&s;pending of &s;uch a Governement, as might be a benefit and ble&s;&s;ing to them, while&s;t they are in preparing for the other.</P>
<P>In the mean time we clearly &s;ee that all <HI>A. S.</HI> his foundations for his Presbyteriall building, fail him: neither the <HI>old Te&s;tament,</HI> nor the <HI>New,</HI> nor yet the <HI>Law of Nature,</HI> will con&s;ent to beare or to &s;upport any &s;uch fabrique. Nor is all that hath been here &s;aid by way of con|te&s;t with him about his Government, any whit more then a fir&s;t fruits of what is further oppo&s;eable to it.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="4" TYPE="chapter">
<HEAD><HI>Chapt. 4</HI> Concerning the form of Church-government maintained by the. Apologi&s;ts, commonly called <HI>(nomine ad invidiam comparato)</HI> by the nick-name of Independency; by them&s;elves <HI>Congregationall:</HI> and whether <HI>A. S.</HI> his exceptions again&s;t it, be materiall, or of that moment, that it &s;hould give place to its Competitor.</HEAD>
<P>FOr the ju&s;tification of this Government, in a cat askeua&s;tique or a&s;|&s;ertive way, I &s;hall plead nothing further (for the pre&s;ent) then
<PB N="74" REF="43">what the Presbyterian School it &s;elf grants, conceiving that to be a ground impregnable, e&s;pecially <HI>quoad homines,</HI> to found the lawfulne&s;s of it upon. I &s;hall rather addre&s;s to my Antagoni&s;t <HI>A. S.</HI> and try whe|ther he be any whit more dexterous at pulling down, then we late|ly found him at building up; it may be he is better at hiding, then at finding.</P>
<P>But fir&s;t,<NOTE PLACE="marg">See Ma&s;t r <HI>C<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">s Hole</HI> Independen|cy &amp;c. p. 2.</NOTE> towards the building up of the Congregationall Govern|ment, this corner-&s;tone is given us by our Adver&s;aries, that <HI>where there is no neighbourhood of Congregations, or &s;ingle Churches, whereby they may with conveniency be aiding each to other, there a &s;ingle Congregation mu&s;t not he denyed entirene&s;s of juri&s;diction.</HI></P>
<P>If wee cannot upon this advantage of ground, make good this go|vernment again&s;t all oppo&s;ition, it is very ill be&s;towed on us, and wee de&s;erve to be puni&s;hed with that, which lifts up it &s;elf again&s;t it. But,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, if <HI>entirene&s;s</HI> of Government or <HI>juri&s;diction</HI> be not to be <HI>denyed to a &s;ingle Congregation,</HI> when it is &s;olitary, and without neighbours, then certainly it hath a lawfull right, title, or claim to &s;uch a Juri&s;diction. For what&s;oever doth not in a way of equity or right belong unto any man, ought to be denyed unto him. If then a &s;ingle Church in this ca&s;e, hath a right to an intirene&s;s of rule and government within it &s;elf, I would gladly know, by what right any other Church or churches, be they never &s;o many, can take away this right or priviledge from it. <HI>Tho&s;e whom God hath put together</HI> (&s;aith our Saviour, in the ca&s;e of mar|riage) <HI>let not man put a&s;under.</HI> Doubtle&s;s, if a &s;ingle Church, under the circum&s;tance mentioned, hath a <HI>right to an intirene&s;s of juri&s;diction within it &s;elf,</HI> it hath this right conferred upon it by God, or Chri&s;t him&s;elf, there being no other fountain or foundation thereof imaginable. And if &s;o, then who ever &s;hall take away, or deny this right of Juri&s;dicti|on unto it, mu&s;t &s;hew a commi&s;&s;ion from heaven to do it, or otherwi&s;e be guilty of <HI>putting tho&s;e a&s;under whom God hath joyned together.</HI></P>
<P>Secondly, if a Church yet &s;ingle, be inve&s;ted with a power of Juri&s;|diction within it &s;elf, and &s;hould be ca&s;hiered of this power, by the ri&s;ing up of more Churches neer unto her, then that which is inten|ded by God as a table, &s;hould become a &s;nare unto her; &s;he &s;hould &s;uff r l<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;s, and have &s;orrow from tho&s;e, by whom &s;hee ought to be comforted.</P>
<P>Thirdly, If a &s;ingle Church &s;hould &s;uffer lo&s;s of &s;o con&s;iderable a priviledge, as entirene&s;s of Juri&s;diction is, by the multiplication of Churches n er unto her, then cannot this Church pray for the propa|gation of the Go&s;pel in places neer to it, but &s;he mu&s;t pray again&s;t her
<PB N="75" REF="43">own comfort and peace; which is a &s;ore temptation upon her, either to pray very faintly, or not to pray at all, for &s;uch a thing.</P>
<P>If it be objected and &s;aid, that intirene&s;s of Juri&s;diction is no be|nefit or priviledge to a &s;ingle Church, but rather an inconvenience, or a diminutive priviledge at be&s;t, and that her condition &s;hall be im|prov'd, not impaired, by combining her &s;elf in point of government with other Churches: I an&s;wer,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, that the Scripture it &s;elf makes intirene&s;s of government, or &s;ubjection only unto tho&s;e that are of the &s;ame &s;ociety or body, a &s;pe|ciall mercy, favour, and ble&s;&s;ing from God. <HI>And their Nobles &s;hall be of them&s;elves</HI> (&s;aith God, &s;peaking of that great goodne&s;s he meant to &s;hew unto his people after their return from Babylon) <HI>and their Go|vernour &s;hall proceed from the midst of them &amp;c.</HI> Jer. 30.21. So it is made a character or &s;ign of the pro&s;perous e&s;tate of <HI>Tyres,</HI> that <HI>her wi&s;e men that were in her,</HI> (<HI>i.</HI> of her own Nation) <HI>were her pilots,</HI> Ezek. 27.8.</P>
<P>Secondly, &s;ubjection unto &s;trangers, is &s;till &s;poken of as matter of puni&s;hment and &s;orrow: <HI>Give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen &s;hould reigne over it,</HI> Joel 2.17. The Nations of the Jews were expre&s;ly forbidden to <HI>&s;et &s;trangers to rule over them,</HI> Deut. 17.15.</P>
<P>If it be objected; But Pa&s;tours or Elders of neighbour Churches ought not to be looked upon as &s;trangers, but as Brethren: I an&s;wer, (in a word) though they be brethren in compari&s;on of the unbelieving party of the world, and in re&s;pect of their &s;pirituall de&s;cent from the &s;ame Father with them; yet have they more of the relation and con|&s;ideration of &s;trangers to them, then tho&s;e that are (as it were) of the &s;ame dome&s;tique &s;ociety with them. And therefore &s;ubjection to them, mu&s;t needs have le&s;s of the ble&s;&s;ing, and more of the cur&s;e in it, then &s;ubjection to their own.</P>
<P>Thirdly, the grant of Government and Rule within them&s;elves un|to Towns and Corporations, were ever e&s;teemed matters of &s;peciall grace and favour from Princes: and have &s;ometimes been purcha&s;ed with great &s;ummes by the Inhabitants.</P>
<P>Fourthly and la&s;tly, rea&s;on it &s;elf demon&s;trates intirene&s;s of Go|vernment, to be a &s;weet priviledge and benefit to a particular Church. Fir&s;t, in ca&s;e a man be que&s;tioned, he &s;aves a proportion both of time, and labour of travell in re&s;pect of whath mu&s;t undergo, if hee were to make his an&s;wer at a Con&s;i&s;tory further off. Secondly, proceedings again&s;t him in his own &s;ociety &s;hall be regulated, managed and ordered by his owne Pa&s;tour, who is a Father unto him in the Lord, and who in all rea&s;on, and according to the cour&s;e of (al mo&s;t) all con&s;tant expe|rience,
<PB N="76" REF="44">is more tender, affectionate, and compa&s;&s;ionate towards him, then the Pa&s;tors of other flocks, and tho&s;e that are &s;trangers to him. The <HI>Pharaoh</HI> that knew <HI>Jo&s;eph,</HI> dealt well by him, his kindred, and &s;eed: but (&s;aith the Text) <HI>There <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ro&s;e another Pharaoh that knew not Jo&s;eph, and he evill intreated our Fathers, &amp;c.</HI> Thirdly, he &s;hall be tried, and &s;entenced by tho&s;e, who know not how &s;oon it may be their own ca&s;e to be tried and &s;entenced by him again; which in rea&s;on cannot but teach them moderation and equity, in what&s;oever they &s;hall act or &s;ugge&s;t again&s;t him; whereas, a Con&s;i&s;tory of &s;tanding Judges, who&s;e <HI>fair necks</HI> have little or no cau&s;e to fear any <HI>yoke</HI> of being judged them|&s;elves, are in far more danger, through a confident and con&s;tant u&s;e of the Scepter, of having their hand hardened, and their little finger &s;oon made as heavie as their loins. It is a good rule which <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf prompteth us withall in this ca&s;e, pag. 10. <HI>Nunquam &s;atis fida potentia, ubi nimiae&s;t;</HI> power &s;eldom yeelds any good fruit, where it is too rank and luxuriant. Fourthly, it is a great incouragement and confirmation of face, to a man that is accu&s;ed, and is call'd to an&s;wer for him&s;elfe, e&s;pecially, if he be any thing tender foreheaded and ba&s;hfull, as many of inferiour breed and education are, to an&s;wer before tho&s;e, who&s;e faces are familiar to him, and with who&s;e per&s;ons he is well acquain|ted; and the contrary is a kind of oppre&s;&s;ion to &s;uch a man. Such an ad|vantage or di&s;advantage as this, may ea&s;ily amount to as much, as either a mans &s;tanding, or falling in this cau&s;e. A Con&s;i&s;tory of &s;trange faces, e&s;pecially the per&s;ons being all of &s;uperiour rank and quality to him, may be to a plain man, of as bad a con&s;equence, a<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> the &s;eeing of <HI>Medu&s;a</HI>'s head was (among the Poets) it may turn him into a &s;tone, and make him able to &s;ay little for him&s;elf; whereas, if he be to make an&s;wer at home, the knowledge and intere&s;t hee hath, of, and in tho&s;e per&s;ons before whom he is to &s;peak, will be a &s;overaign antidote unto him again&s;t &s;uch fears, as otherwi&s;e might betray him in his cau&s;e. Fifthly, in this Government we &s;peak of, by the Congregation, private Chri&s;tians have the opportunity of &s;eeing and hearing from time to time, all the carriages, debates, and judiciary proceedings in the Church, which will be not only matter of much &s;atisfaction, but al&s;o as a &s;chool of wi&s;dom and experience unto them dai<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">y; whereas, if the&s;e tran&s;actions be negotiated at a remote Con&s;i&s;tory, the private Chri&s;tian l<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;eth his portion and intere&s;t in them. Sixthly (and la&s;tly) Conclu&s;ions many times are very offen&s;ive and hard to be dige&s;ted, for want of the know|ledge of the premi&s;&s;es, that &s;hould allay and &s;weeten them. Cla&s;&s;ique determinations and awards, e&s;pecially when they ri&s;e high, the rea&s;ons
<PB N="77" REF="44">and grounds of them being (for the mo&s;t part) unknown to the gene|rality of men, are of hard con&s;truction with them: whereas the i&s;&s;ues and awards that are brought forth in a Congregation, the whole &s;eries and &s;torie of all proceedings, <HI>&agrave; capite ad calcem,</HI> being known unto all, mu&s;t needs be much more &s;atisfactory, and of a far better re&s;entment with men. The&s;e rea&s;ons might have been inlarged with much more &s;trength and weight, and many others likewi&s;e added to them; but for the pre&s;ent, de&s;irous wee are that brevity &s;hould have the ca&s;ting voyce.</P>
<P>Who then can lay any thing to the charge of this Government? That can I (quoth <HI>A. S.</HI> in effect, <HI>p.</HI> 38, 39.) I have &s;ixteen rea&s;ons or objections again&s;t it. Yea, but <HI>A. S.</HI> your &s;ixteen Rea&s;ons (or at lea&s;t the greate&s;t part of them, as far as I can &s;ee) have all but one head; and if that be &s;truck off, all tho&s;e rea&s;ons are but as &s;o many dead <HI>corp&s;es.</HI> You alledge again&s;t the Apologi&s;ts, that the <HI>remedy</HI> in their way of Government, for the reducing irregular, <HI>is not &s;ufficient nor &s;atisfactory.</HI> This you prove by laying pen upon paper, untill you had &s;ixteen rea|&s;ons (&s;o called) in black and white. I &s;hall not &s;pend time in tran&s;cri|bing the&s;e your Rea&s;ons, but &s;hall de&s;ire the Reader (though it may be &s;ome di&s;courte&s;ie unto you) to take your book into his hand, and to con&s;ider of them with what is repon'd in An&s;wer to them.</P>
<P>And fir&s;t, for that defectivene&s;s you charge upon the Congregati|onall Government, for the reduction of whole Churches, under er|rours, mi&s;carriages, &amp;c. I an&s;wer:</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, Suppo&s;e that cour&s;e or means which the Apologi&s;ts in&s;i&s;t up|on, <HI>a with-drawing, and renouncing all Chri&s;tian communion with &s;uch Churches, untill they repent,</HI> be not in the eye of rea&s;on or humane con|jecture a means <HI>&s;ufficient</HI> for &s;uch a purpo&s;e, and that not only &s;ixteen, but &s;ix and twenty rea&s;ons, and tho&s;e more plau&s;ible then <HI>A. S.</HI> his &s;ixteen, could be levied again&s;t it, yet if it be a means which God hath authorized for the effecting it (as I verily believe it is, neither doth <HI>A. S.</HI> nor any of his, that yet I have met with, prove the contrary) it will do the deed, and pro&s;per, when as &s;even other means that are greater of fle&s;h, and more promi&s;ing, will but beat the air, and do little of what was intended and projected to have been done by them. How many rea&s;ons may we probably conceive, that the <HI>di&s;puters of this world in Paul's</HI> time, were able to bandie again&s;t preaching, whereby to prove it fooli&s;hne&s;s? yet this was, and &s;till is, and ever will be, maugre all the oppo&s;ition of ten thou&s;and di&s;putations and rea&s;ons
<PB N="78" REF="45">again&s;t it, <HI>the wi&s;dome of God, and the power of God, to &s;ave tho&s;e that be|lieve.</HI> The &s;trength and power of &s;acred Ordinances do not lie in their natures, but in their relations or in&s;titutions. Now, that a <HI>with-drawing of Chri&s;tian communion</HI> from per&s;ons walking inordinately, is an Ordi|nance or means appointed by God, for the reducing and reclaiming of them, is evident, 2 <HI>The&s;.</HI> 3.6. with the 14. <HI>We warn you Brethren, in the Name of our Lord Je&s;us Chri&s;t, that yee withdraw your &s;elves from every brother that walketh inordinately,</HI> &amp;c. and ver&s;. 14. <HI>If any man obey not this our &s;aying in this letter note him, and have no company with him, that he may be a&s;hamed.</HI> Clearly implying, that to with-draw communion, and to deny Chri&s;tian fellow&s;hip unto Chri&s;tians walking inordinately, is both a means of Divine in&s;titution, and otherwi&s;e proper and com|modious in it &s;elf, to reclaim and bring them to Repentance. There is the &s;ame rea&s;on of Churches in this behalf, which there is of per&s;ons; Churches being nothing el&s;e but per&s;ons embodied.</P>
<P>Secondly, &s;uppo&s;e there were no &s;uch <HI>&s;ufficient or &s;atisfactory remedy</HI> for the inconvenience mentioned in the way of the Apologi&s;ts, as <HI>A.S.</HI> conceives to be in his (which yet there is, as hath in part already, and will afterwards further appear) yet Lawyers have a &s;aying, that <HI>a mi&s;|chief is better then an inconvenience.</HI> A man had better run the hazard of a greater lo&s;s, then expo&s;e him&s;elf to a daily wa&s;ting and con&s;uming of his e&s;tate. A man had better be wet through and through with a &s;oaking &s;howre once a yeer, then be expo&s;ed in his hou&s;e to <HI>continuall droppings</HI> all the yeer long. The Delinquencie of whole Churches, (&s;uch I mean, as is matter of publique &s;candall or offence to their neigh|bour Churches) is not an every dayes ca&s;e, no more in the way of <HI>Congregationall</HI> men of <HI>Presbyteriall</HI> Government: you acknowledge the rarity of it in your Government, and we affirm it in ours. Now then much better it is, to want a remedy again&s;t &s;uch an evill, which po&s;&s;ibly may not fall out within an age, though it be greater when it doth fall, then it is to expo&s;e our &s;elves <HI>to continuall droppings,</HI> I mean, to tho&s;e daily inconveniences which wee lately &s;hewed to be Incident to the Cla&s;&s;ique Government.</P>
<P>Thirdly, they that implead the Congregationall way, for being de|fective, as touching the matter in hand, &s;eem to &s;uppo&s;e, that God hath <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ut a &s;ufficiency of power in<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">o the hands of men, to remedy all defects, errours, and mi&s;carriag<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">s of men what&s;oever. El<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters"> why &s;hould it be made matter of &s;o deep a charge and challenge again&s;t the way of t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">e Apologi&s;t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">, that it affords not a <HI>&s;ufficient and &s;atisfactory remedy</HI> either to prevent or heal all po&s;&s;ible mi&s;carriages in all churches?
<PB N="79" REF="45">I would willingly know, in ca&s;e your <HI>Church tran&s;cendent,</HI> your &s;u|preme Se&s;&s;ion of Presbyters, &s;hould mi&s;carry, and in your Doctrinall determinations, give us <HI>bay, &s;tubble, and wood,</HI> in &s;tead of <HI>&s;ilver, gold,</HI> and <HI>precious &s;tones,</HI> (a mi&s;pri&s;ion, you know, wel-neer as incident to &s;uch A&s;&s;emblies, yea, and to tho&s;e that are more generall and oecumeni|all then &s;o, as ob&s;tinacy in errour is to particular Congregations) what remedy the poor Saints and Churches of God under you have, or can expect again&s;t &s;uch a mi&s;chiefe; or what remedy you now have in the way of your government, for the recovering of your &s;elves out of &s;uch a &s;nare, more then what the Congregationall way affordeth, for the re|claiming of particular Churches. Nay, the truth is, your Government in &s;uch a ca&s;e is at a greater lo&s;s in re&s;pect of any probable or hopefull remedy again&s;t &s;uch an evill (which yet is an evill of a mo&s;t dangerous con&s;equence) then the other way of Government is for the reduction of particular Churches. That hath the <HI>remedy</HI> of God (as hath been &s;hewed) though not the <HI>remedy</HI> of men, and yet that <HI>remedy</HI> of God which it hath, in appliable by men, and tho&s;e known who they are, <HI>viz.</HI> the Churches of Chri&s;t neer adjoyning; but if your great Ec|cle&s;ia&s;tique body be tainted or infected, though never &s;o dangerou&s;ly,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Corpora mor|bis majora patent. <HI>Sen.</HI></NOTE> God mu&s;t have <HI>mercy on you,</HI> and that in a way &s;omewhat (at lea&s;t) more then ordinary, if ever you be healed. For that <HI>Directive power in matters of Religion,</HI> which, had you left it in other mens hands, might in this ca&s;e, through the ble&s;&s;ing of God, have healed you, being now only in your own, hath not only occa&s;ioned that evill di&s;ea&s;e that is upon you, but al&s;o leaves you helple&s;s and curele&s;s by other men. <HI>A. S.</HI> makes the greate&s;t part of his arguments again&s;t that way of Government which hee oppo&s;eth, of <HI>what iffs,</HI> I mean, of loo&s;e and impertinent &s;uppo&s;itions, and ca&s;es, that are not like to fall out, till <HI>ur&s;a major,</HI> and <HI>ur&s;a minor</HI> meet (unto which kind of arguments, every whit as much as enough hath been an&s;wered already) but he &s;hall &s;hew him&s;elf a &s;overaign Benefactour indeed to the Presbyterian cau&s;e, if he can find out <HI>a remedy &s;atisfacto|ry and &s;ufficient</HI> again&s;t that &s;ore evill we &s;peak of incident to his Go|vernment in the ca&s;e mentioned: which is a ca&s;e both of a far wor&s;e con&s;equence then the ob&s;tinacy of a particular Church in &s;ome error; and (I fear) of a far more frequent occurrence then the world is willing to take notice of.</P>
<P>Fourthly, let us ponder a little, how <HI>&s;ufficient and &s;atisfactorie</HI> that <HI>remedie</HI> again&s;t the evill now in con&s;ideration, is, which the Cla&s;&s;ique politie, under the protection of A. S. his pen, &s;o much glorieth in; let
<PB N="80" REF="46">us compare the two remedies, of the two corriving polities together, as A. S. hath done, after this manner.</P>
<P><HI>But the Presbyteriall Government</HI> (&s;aith he, p. 39.) <HI>is &s;ubject to none of the&s;e inconveniences: For the collective or combined elder&s;hip having an Au|thoritative power, all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Cove|nant to &s;ubmit them&s;elves thereunto: Every man knoweth their &s;et times of meeting, wherein &s;undrie matters are di&s;patched, and all things carried by pluralitie of voyces, without any &s;chi&s;me or &s;eparation.</HI> Not to be trouble|&s;ome to the man about his Grammaticals, (wherein hi pen &s;lips oftner then <HI>Pri&s;cian</HI> will <HI>tolerate</HI> in &s;uch a piece) becau&s;e in the&s;e he oppo&s;eth nothing but a mans conceit either of overmuch &s;cholar&s;hip, or overmuch care, in him.</P>
<P>Here is a <HI>remedie</HI> indeed again&s;t &s;ome inconveniences; but whether the inconveniences be not much better then the remedie, <HI>adhuc &s;ub Judice lis e&s;t.</HI> But what are the inconveniences?</P>
<P>The fir&s;t is, <HI>that Churches being equall in authoritie, one cannot binde another to give any account, in ca&s;e of offence given.</HI> Well, what is the re|medie for this in Cla&s;&s;ique con&s;titution? <HI>The combined Elder&s;hip having an authoritative power, all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to &s;ubmit them&s;elves,</HI> &amp;c. What is another inconvenience? <HI>In ca&s;e other churches were offended in the proceedings of a particular church, they could not judge in it; for then they &s;hould be both judge and partie in one cau&s;e, &amp;c.</HI> Well, what is the remedie in Presbyterian politie? <HI>The combined Elder&s;hip having an authoritative power, all men and Church|ches, &amp;c.</HI> What is a third inconvenience? <HI>That Congregationall Govern|ment giveth no more power or authoritie to a thou&s;and Churches over one, then to a Tinker, yea to the Hangman over a thou&s;and, &amp;c.</HI> What is the Presby|terian remedie for this? <HI>The combined Elder&s;hip having an Authorita|tive power, &amp;c.</HI> The <HI>combined Elder&s;hip</HI> with their <HI>Authoritative power</HI> together <HI>with a Law or Covenant whereby all men and Churches under them, are bound to &s;ubmit unto them,</HI> are as bars of iron and gates of bra&s;&s;e to keep out al tho&s;e inconveniences, irregularities, defilements, pollu|tions, out of the Presbyterian Temple, whereunto (it &s;eems) the Congregationall temple, for want of &s;uch &s;toure and tight provi&s;ions, lies open. But,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, what if your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip</HI> hath neither footing nor foundation in the Word of God? It is not the &s;erviceablene&s;&s;e of it a|gain&s;t a thou&s;and &s;uch inconveniences as were mentioned, that will ju&s;tifie it. <HI>Sauls</HI> offering &s;acrifice was a means to prevent the <HI>&s;cattering of the people</HI> from him; yet <HI>Samuel</HI> told him that <HI>he had done fooli&s;hly in
<PB N="81" REF="46">it;</HI> and it co&s;t him his Kingdom. 1 <HI>Sam.</HI> 13.9.13.14. So the putting forth of <HI>Vzz<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">h's</HI> hand to &s;tay the Ark, was a meanes to keepe it from being &s;haken; but yet the doing of it co&s;t him his life. <HI>Peters</HI> valour and zeale in drawing his &s;word, and laying about him, was a likely meanes of re&s;cuing his Ma&s;ter; but the Lord Chri&s;t preferred the im|minent danger of his life before &s;uch a re&s;cue, and check'd the &s;word that was drawne for him againe into the &s;heath. That Law and con&s;ti|tution in the Papacie, whereby <HI>all men &amp; all Churches thereof,</HI> are bound to &s;ubmit their judgements in matters of Faith to the deci&s;ion of the Papall Chair, is as &s;overaigne a <HI>remedie</HI> again&s;t all tho&s;e inconvenien|ces named, as that for which Cla&s;&s;ique Authoritie is &s;o much magnified by you; and yet it is never the le&s;&s;e abominable in the eyes both of God and men. The Que&s;tion is not, which Government will &s;erve mo&s;t turnes; but which is mo&s;t agreeable to the will and Word of God. If that of Presbyterie be defective this way, as there is ex|treame cau&s;e to feare it is, this defect cannot be recompenced or re|deemed by any other commendation what&s;oever.</P>
<P>Secondly, neither can we with any tolerable &s;atisfaction informe our &s;elves out of all your di&s;cour&s;e, either what you meane by that <HI>Au|thoritative power,</HI> which you claime to your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip,</HI> nor yet how, or by what, or who&s;e Authoritie, they come to be inve&s;ted with it. As for the power, &s;ometimes you deny it to be <HI>Magi&s;teriall,</HI> or &s;uch, which may not lawfully be declin'd, when a man cannot &s;ub|mit unto it without di&s;obedience to God; otherwi&s;e, you make it &s;o irrefragably &s;acred, as if it were no le&s;&s;er &s;in then perjurie it &s;elfe, to detract it. Again, for the inve&s;titure of your Elder&s;hip with this po|wer, whether they arrogate it unto them&s;elves and are their own car|vers, or whether the Civill State and Parliamentarie Law, or whether the free and joynt con&s;ent of tho&s;e over whom this power is exerci&s;ed, do conferre and derive it upon them, you informe us not, but count an <HI>ignoramus,</HI> better then a verdict. But till you do re&s;olve us by what Authoritie or power this <HI>Authoritative power</HI> comes into the hand of your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip,</HI> we &s;hall thinke it &s;afer to &s;tand to the hazard and dammage of all the <HI>inconveniences</HI> &s;poken of, then to &s;ubject to it.</P>
<P>Thirdly, if the Law of the State, be the fir&s;t and mo&s;t con&s;iderable band or tye upon men to &s;ubmit unto the power of your <HI>combined Ed|der&s;hip</HI> (as you &s;eeme here to imply, in &s;aying <HI>that all men &amp; all Chur|ches thereof are bound by Law, &amp;c.</HI>) then 1. you mu&s;t acknowledge that the root and ba&s;e of your Government is <HI>pote&s;tas &s;ecularis,</HI> &s;ecular
<PB N="82" REF="47">authoritie; and then how is it Eccle&s;ia&s;tick or &s;pirituall? A man may as well <HI>bring a clean thing out of an unclean</HI> (in <HI>Jobs</HI> expre&s;&s;ion) as make a &s;pirituall extraction out of a &s;ecular root. Secondly, it will re&s;t up|on you to prove, that the Civill State hath a power to forme and fa|&s;hion the government of the Churches of Chri&s;t. Yea, thirdly (and la&s;tly) it will be demon&s;tratively proved again&s;t you, that you re|&s;olve the government of the Churches of Chri&s;t (in the la&s;t re&s;olution of it) into the humors, wills, and plea&s;ures of the world, yea of the vile&s;t and mo&s;t unworthy of men. But,</P>
<P>Fourthly (and la&s;tly) the <HI>Authoritative power of your combined El|der&s;hip</HI> being granted unto you, we doe not &s;ee how the inconveni|ences you find in the Congregationall way, will bee much better &s;olv'd in yours. For fir&s;t, what if a particular Congregation under the juri&s;diction of your Elder&s;hip, reflecting upon the Oath or Cove|nant it hath taken for &s;ubjection thereunto, (as likewi&s;e upon all o|ther engagements that way) as unlawfull, &s;hall peremptorily re|fu&s;e to &s;tand to the awards or determinations of it, what will you do in this ca&s;e? How will your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip</HI> remedy this incon|venience? What? will you excommunicate this Church? The A|pologi&s;ts in their way do little le&s;&s;e; (and that by a power farre le&s;&s;e que&s;tionable then yours) nay in your interpretation they doe every whit as much: Or will you deliver them over <HI>Brachio &s;ecularie</HI> to be hamper'd and taught better then it &s;eems you can teach them, by pri|&s;ons, fines, bani&s;hment, &amp;c. O <HI>A. S.</HI> remember you tar'd the Apo|logi&s;ts, for comporting in a very &s;mall matter (in compari&s;on) with the Arminians (in ca&s;e it had been true) and will you comply with the Papi&s;ts in a matter of this high nature? Churches had need take heed how they chu&s;e men for their Guardians, that will &s;o di&s;po&s;e of them if they plea&s;e them not. Be&s;ides, you know what was &s;aid in the &s;econd chapter, touching the power of the Magi&s;trate in this ca&s;e. And what if in the Se&s;&s;ion of your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip</HI> there be no &s;uch thing as plurality of votes concerning excommunication of &s;uch a Church, (as it is very po&s;&s;ible that in &s;uch a meeting the truth may find ju&s;t as many friends as error hath, and no more) is not the <HI>remedy</HI> you &s;pake of, now in the d<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;t?</P>
<P>Again &s;econdly, (to touch upon the &s;econd inconvenience mentio|ned) when your <HI>combined Elder&s;hip</HI> proceeds again&s;t a particular Church among&s;t you, upon offence taken, is not this Elder&s;hip as well <HI>Party</HI> as <HI>Jud<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">?</HI> If you think you have every whit the better of it, becau&s;e your Elder&s;hip, though it be both <HI>Party</HI> and <HI>Judge,</HI> yet hath
<PB N="83" REF="47">an <HI>authoritative power</HI> over tho&s;e whom it judgeth: I an&s;wer fir&s;t, that as our Saviour told <HI>Pilate, He could have no power again&s;t him, except it were given him from above;</HI> no more can your Eder&s;hip have over tho&s;e whom it judgeth in this ca&s;e. Now how uncertain and faint the probabilities are, that they have any power over them given them <HI>from above,</HI> hath been formerly &s;hewed at large. And if that power which your Elder&s;hip claimeth, and exerci&s;eth over the Church ar|raigned, be not <HI>from above,</HI> then the Apologi&s;ts <HI>remedy</HI> is farre better and &s;afer then yours. Secondly, to hold and maintain, that all tho&s;e that have an <HI>Authoritative power</HI> over men, may lawfully by vertue of &s;uch power, be both parties and Judges, is to exalt all manner of ty|ranny, violence and oppre&s;&s;ion by a Law. Upon &s;uch a &s;uppo&s;ition, men inve&s;ted with authority and power, whether in Church or State, may be their own carvers, and &s;erve them&s;elves of the e&s;tates, liber|ties and lives of tho&s;e that are under them, how, and when, &amp; as oft as they li&s;t. And why doe you not &s;ubmit to the deci&s;ive judgment of the King in all controver&s;ies depending between you and him, if that be your doctrine?</P>
<P>For the third inconvenience (&s;o called) I &s;hall be your debtour to tell me plainly and di&s;tinctly, what power more your government gi|veth to a <HI>thou&s;and Churches over one, then to a Tinker, or the Hangman, o|ver a thou&s;and.</HI> I doe not remember where either your &s;elfe, or any of your party, have calculated the proportion; but I well remember a &s;aying in <HI>Charron, That every humane propo&s;ition hath equall authoritie,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Tout propo&s;iti|on humane a autant d'au|therite quel'autre, &s;i la rai|&s;on n'on fait la d fference. Charion de &s;ag<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;&s;e. Plus credendi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> e&s;t a&s;&s;ertioni alicujus &s;im|plicis &amp; non autho<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">izati excellenter in Scripturis e|ruditi, quam declarationi Papae.</NOTE> <HI>if rea&s;on make not the difference:</HI> and another of <HI>Ger&s;on</HI> (much commen|ded by Prote&s;tant Authors, though the Author of it Pontificiall) <HI>The &s;aying of a &s;imple man, and no wayes authoriz'd, if he be well &s;een in the Scriptures, is rather to be beleeved, then the Popes own determination.</HI> But <HI>A. S.</HI> what makes you thinke (for I can ea&s;ily gue&s;&s;e what makes you &s;ay) that the government of the Apologi&s;ts <HI>gives no more power to a thou&s;and Churches over one, then to a Tinker or Hangman over a thou&s;and? &V;bi, uando, quibus te&s;tibus,</HI> did this government, or any &s;on it hath, ever make any &s;uch compari&s;on, or &s;o farre honour either your <HI>Ti<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">|ker</HI> or <HI>Hungman,</HI> as to make them, quall in power to a <HI>thou&s;and Chur|ches.</HI> And yet I &s;uppo&s;e, if a man &s;hould &s;ay, that the du&s;t in the bal|lance hath as much life in it as the Sunne, it would be no di&s;parage|ment to this excellent and glorious creature; becau&s;e the excellencie of it doth not &s;tand in any degrees or &s;uperiority of life above any o|ther creature, but in the aboundance of light which it hath, and the height of its &s;ituation, and the &s;ervice abtene&s;&s;e of it to the world by
<PB N="84" REF="48">means of both. In like manner if it be &s;uppo&s;ed (which I think, upon what hath been delivered may very rea&s;onably be &s;uppo&s;ed) that the glory and excellencie of Churches doth not &s;tand in any <HI>power or au|thority</HI> that one hath over another, or many over one, but in other farre more rich, and holy, and honourable endowments, relations, and qualifications, it can be no prejudice or di&s;paragement unto <HI>ten thou&s;and</HI> of them, to &s;ay they have no more authority over one, then <HI>A. S.</HI> his <HI>Tinker</HI> or <HI>Hangman</HI> hath over them. Therefore if <HI>A. S.</HI> his admired peece of Church-policie, hath no greater commendation, then to &s;erve for preventing &s;uch <HI>Inconveniences</HI> as this, the world needs make no great lamentation over it, though it were in the condition of <HI>Rachels children,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Matth. 2.18.</NOTE> when &s;he <HI>wept</HI> for them, and would not be <HI>comforted.</HI></P>
<P>Some other <HI>inconveniences</HI> there are, wherein <HI>A. S.</HI> findes the Go|vernment which he oppo&s;eth, tardie, and thinkes he &s;ets a crown of glory upon the head of his Presbytery, in vindicating the <HI>innocencie</HI> of it in re&s;pect of &s;uch guilt; But, alas! he wa&s;heth off this guilt with blood, or with water fouler then it (as hath been &s;hewed) and <HI>con|demneth</HI> his government in that wherein he mainly <HI>alloweth</HI> it. The guilt is innocencie, in re&s;pect of the purgation. There is one inconve|nience (formerly opened and in&s;i&s;ted upon in this chapter) very inci|dent to Presbytery, the con&s;cience whereof (me thinks) &s;hould make all the &s;ons of that way, rather to cover and compa&s;&s;ionate, then to complain or cry out of any inconvenience they either &s;ee, or rather think they &s;ee in another.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="5" TYPE="chapter">
<HEAD><HI>Chap. 5.</HI> Whether the Apologi&s;ts and men of their judgement, may lawfully and without danger or prejudice to the State, be tolerated: and whether <HI>A. S.</HI> his rea&s;ons to the contrarie, be of &s;ufficient weight to per&s;wade ei|ther to the bani&s;hment, cru&s;hing, or &s;uppre&s;&s;ing of them in any kind.</HEAD>
<P>HE that hath read the precedent part of this di&s;cour&s;e, and doth, though but with the lowe&s;t degree of impartialitie, con&s;ider what hath been argued between the two wayes, Presbytery and Apo|logi&s;me, cannot lightly but mourne over the title of this chapter; and think him to be a man of iron entrails that &s;hould give occa&s;ion to &s;uch a Que&s;tion as is there propounded.</P>
<P>Suppo&s;e the opinion maintained in the latter part of the &s;econd Chapter, were wav'd, and &s;uch a <HI>coercive power</HI> in matters of Religion
<PB N="85" REF="48">as <HI>A. S.</HI> contends for, allowed in the Magi&s;trates hand, yet that any man &s;hould plead for the drawing of this &s;word again&s;t tho&s;e men, who fir&s;t, have &s;uch a con&s;iderable &s;trength, if not of evidence, yet of rea&s;on, for what they practi&s;e and profe&s;&s;e: &s;econdly, have a like (if not a more) con&s;iderable &s;trength again&s;t that way of government which they cannot &s;ubmit to. Thirdly, are by their fierce&s;t adver&s;aries and oppo&s;ites them&s;elves, acknowledged ten times over for <HI>very pious, godly, and learned men.</HI> Fourthly, have been (at lea&s;t the generali|tie of them) and &s;o continue, men of the mo&s;t affectionate, and withall the mo&s;t effectuall activitie and forwardne&s;&s;e to promote the great cau&s;e of Religion, Parliament, and Kingdome. Fifthly, are as deep in, or (if you will) as much out of their e&s;tates rateably, for the &s;up|port of this cau&s;e, as any other &s;ort of men what&s;oever. Sixthly, have (many of them) &s;uch as were meet for &s;uch a &s;ervice, adventur'd their per&s;ons and lives, in the face of the rage and furie of the common e|nemie, continuing &s;till in the &s;ame engagements. Yea, &s;eventhly (and la&s;tly) have (&s;ome of them) expo&s;ed them&s;elves to more danger, and harder termes from the adver&s;e party, then ordinary (in ca&s;e they &s;hould prevaile) by a publick vindication of the cau&s;e of the Parlia|ment in print from the Scriptures, and that before any man of differing judgment from them in Church affairs, appeared in the cau&s;e upon &s;uch termes; that any man (I &s;ay) on this &s;ide of malignancie, &s;hould con&s;ult the &s;orrow, trouble, di&s;grace, &s;uppre&s;&s;ion, ruine of men, &s;o holy, &s;o harmle&s;&s;e, of &s;uch eminent de&s;ert in the cau&s;e of Religion, State, Kingdome, me thinkes &s;hould exceed the line of humanity, and be thought &s;ome in&s;piration or &s;ugge&s;tion from the great enemy of mankind.</P>
<P>Neverthele&s;&s;e, if either God, Rea&s;on, the peace or &s;afety of the Kingdome, require the &s;orrows or &s;ufferings of the&s;e men, I make no que&s;tion but they will be willing to di&s;pen&s;e with all con&s;iderations what&s;oever that &s;tand up to plead their immunitie, and will with <HI>I&s;aac</HI> patiently &s;uffer them&s;elves to be bound, yea and to be offered up in &s;acrifice al&s;o, if need be. Onely their humble reque&s;t and &s;uit is, that they may not be &s;acrificed upon the &s;ervice of the ignorance, vain &s;ur|mi&s;es, needle&s;&s;e jealou&s;ies, bitter &s;ugge&s;tions, whether of a few, or of many. Better a thou&s;and times is it, that &s;uch di&s;tempers as the&s;e, though found in millions of men, &s;hould &s;uffer, were it never &s;o deep, then that the lea&s;t hair of the head of one of tho&s;e men &s;hould fall to the ground.</P>
<P>One <HI>A.S.</HI> (it &s;eems) is come forth with a band of one and twentie
<PB N="86" REF="49">Rea&s;ons, to attach the liberty of the&s;e men, and to &s;eize the fredome of their con&s;ciences, and comforts for the u&s;e of the Presbytery, though his word be, <HI>For God and his Country.</HI> But let us give him an unpar|tiall hearing of what hee hath to &s;ay: If the Presbyterie hath right either to the liberties or comforts of the&s;e men, God forbid that any man &s;hould deny them unto it.</P>
<P>Wee &s;hall take the Allegations into con&s;ideration, in that order that him&s;elf pre&s;ents them, in <HI>p.</HI> 61.62, 63&punc; 64, 65. of his Di&s;cour&s;e; de|&s;iring the Reader once more, to reade the tenour of them more at large from his own pen, becau&s;e I intend my An&s;wer with as little tran&s;cribing as may be.</P>
<P>To the fir&s;t we an&s;wer:<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>A. S.</HI> his fir&s;t Rea&s;on a|gain&s;t Tole|ration, An|&s;wered.</NOTE> fir&s;t, that we are no wayes able to compre|hend, why, or how the toleration of the Apologi&s;ts and theirs, &s;hould <HI>open</HI> any <HI>doore to all &s;orts of erroneous opinions,</HI> any whit more then <HI>A. S.</HI> his entertaining of a &s;ober and di&s;creet &s;ervant to wait upon him, &s;hould open a door to all the Kings guard to become his hou&s;hold at|tendants: or then an allowance of provender to his friends hor&s;e, &s;hould open a door to all Prince <HI>Ruperts</HI> troops to rack and manger with him. Nay, &s;econdly, wee are verily per&s;waded (and that upon good grounds) that the granting unto the Apologi&s;ts a free exerci&s;e of their Mini&s;tery, will (under God) be an effectuall means both of cha&s;ing away of many erroneous opinions, which are (for the pre&s;ent) fighting again&s;t the truth of God among&s;t us; as al&s;o of preventing the coming on of further &s;upplies from Hell unto them. <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf gives them this te&s;timony, <HI>pag.</HI> 70. that <HI>whoever knows them, knows well they want no abilities to di&s;pute their opinion in any A&s;&s;embly in Europe.</HI> Men of their abilities, being &s;ound and orthodox in their judgements withall, are Carpenters prepared (as it were) on purpo&s;e by God, for the cutting down of the horns of fal&s;e doctrines and opinions, if they be &s;uffered to work.</P>
<P>Thirdly, (and la&s;tly) if the wor&s;t &s;hould come to the wor&s;t (as the &s;aying is) better <HI>a doer opened to all &s;orts of erroneous opinions,</HI> yea, and to many other inconveniences greater then this; then that the guilt of any per&s;ecution, or of any evill increatings of the Saints and &s;ervants of God &s;hould cleave unto a people or State.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">An&s;wer to his &s;econd Rea|&s;on.</NOTE>To your &s;econd Alledgement, why no Toleration for the Apolo|gi&s;ts, we an&s;wer; fir&s;t, that the very con&s;titution of it is but &s;uper|&s;titiou&s;ne&s;s of fear: <HI>The &s;hadow of the mountains &s;eem men unto you. It may breed factions and divi&s;ions between per&s;ons of what&s;oever relation,</HI> &amp;c. <HI>May</HI> (the countrey Proverb &s;aith) <HI>comes but once a yeer;</HI> but that <HI>May</HI>
<PB N="87" REF="49">this Proverb &s;peaks of, <HI>mu&s;t</HI> come &s;o oft; but <HI>A. S.</HI> his <HI>May, may</HI> po&s;|&s;ibly not come in an age, no nor in many generations. And would hee have &s;o many thou&s;and of the dear children and &s;ervants of God, as do Apologize in the Land, actually and out of hand, be compelled to eat their bread in darkne&s;s, to be filled with heavine&s;s, and many of them (it is like) to peri&s;h by hunger, nakedne&s;s, &amp;c. for the honour and exaltation of his <HI>May be?</HI></P>
<Q><L>Non Dea te genuit, &s;et duris cautibus horrens</L>
<L>Cauca&s;us, Hyrcanae&abque; admorunt ubera tygres.</L></Q>
<P>The man &s;peaks as if he had been bred of rocks, and &s;uck'd the milk of Tygres.</P>
<P>Doth he not de&s;erve to be beaten with his own rod? and becau&s;e his writing books <HI>may</HI> cau&s;e many troubles and di&s;tractions among&s;t us, not to be <HI>tolerated</HI> to have pen, ink, or paper any more?</P>
<P>Secondly, I would know of him, whether hee deemeth him&s;elf to be of <HI>another Religion</HI> then the Apologi&s;ts, becau&s;e he di&s;&s;ents in judge|ment from them about Church-government. If &s;o, he mu&s;t deem him|&s;elf either Arminian, Papi&s;t, Socinian, or wor&s;e; if not, then <HI>Candorem tuum A. S.</HI> in that malignant expre&s;&s;ion, whereby you would make &s;imple people believe, that <HI>the father and the &s;on, and &s;o the husband and wife, are of different Religions,</HI> when they do not walk in the &s;ame way of Church Di&s;cipline.</P>
<P>Thirdly, why &s;hould &s;uch a difference as this, at lea&s;t a liberty thus to differ, without &s;marting on either &s;ide, <HI>breed factions or divi&s;ions between per&s;ons in relation? Doth the wilde A&s;s bray</HI> (&s;aith <HI>Job</HI>) <HI>when he hath gra&s;s? or loweth the Ox over his fodder?</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Job 6.5.</NOTE> Surely per&s;ons are ne|ver upon better terms of advantage to agree, then when contentment is injoyed on every &s;ide. Or in ca&s;e of &s;uch a difference as we &s;peak of, if it be matter of di&s;content to one party, that the other is not of the &s;ame practice with him, you may confidenly believe that the mi&s;|carriage in this kind re&s;ts on the Presbyterian &s;ide; the &s;pirit thereof inordinately lu&s;ting after unity in practice, <HI>viz.</HI> whether either there be any unity in judgement or no, yea, or whether there be any ground for it or no, on the di&s;&s;enting &s;ide. You may prophecie of troubles and di&s;tractions likely to ari&s;e in families and other relations, with &s;ome|what the le&s;s danger of mi&s;carrying in your predictions, if you ani|mate or incourage tho&s;e that are, or &s;hall be of your party, to make the fray. As I have read a &s;tory of a Wizard in <HI>France,</HI> who foretold the death of the Duke of <HI>Burgondie</HI> upon a certain day; and to make
<PB N="86" REF="50">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="87" REF="50">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="88" REF="51">him&s;elf a true Prophet, when the day came, murthered him him&s;elf.</P>
<P N="4">4. Suppo&s;e <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;hould have the Apples given him which his &s;oul lu&s;teth after, and no toleration granted, would there not be as much, if not more, rea&s;on to fear factions and divi&s;ions between Magi&s;trate and Subject, Husband and Wife, &amp;c. as otherwi&s;e? If God &s;hould not incline the judgement, or not &s;atisfie the con&s;cience of the one of the&s;e parties in relation, concerning the lawfulne&s;s of that Go|vernment Presbyteriall, which wee &s;uppo&s;e (for argument &s;ake) to be e&s;tabli&s;hed without a toleration of any other, would not the party agrieved and burthened in this kinde, be (in all likelihood) wor&s;e company for the other, more troubled, more di&s;contented, and every whit as much divided, both in judgement and practice from him; yea, and more divided in affection, di&s;contentment being one of the grea|te&s;t enemies that are, to love, union, and peace? Were it not a thou|&s;and times better, and more conducing unto unity in affection and peace, rather to &s;uffer the di&s;contented party to marry then to burn, I mean, to injoy the freedom of their con&s;cience, rather then to be per|petually kept in an iron chain of &s;pirituall di&s;content? We cannot but know that relations were incumbred with &s;uch factions and divi&s;i|ons, as <HI>A. S.</HI> &s;peaks of, even whil&s;t the mountain of <HI>Samaria</HI> &s;tood, I mean, when Epi&s;copacy reigned, when yet there was no tolera|tion of Pluralities of Church-government (though of Church-livings there was.)</P>
<P N="5">5. Nothing is more frequent in and about the City, then for mem|bers of the &s;ame family, to addre&s;s them&s;elves to &s;everall Mini&s;teries from time to time, the husband to hear in one place, the wife in ano|ther, the childe in a third, for their better &s;pirituall accommodations re&s;pectively, yea, and &s;ometimes to communicate with &s;everall Mini|&s;t rs, without the lea&s;t breach or touch of di&s;contentment on any &s;ide.</P>
<P N="6">6. And la&s;tly, It can hardly be expected, e&s;pecially in this King|dom, where the godly and under&s;tanding party have &s;o long &s;uffered, and that in extremity, from a peremptory impo&s;ed State-government, without any relaxation or mitigation, and have lately ta&s;ted the un|expre&s;&s;ible &s;weetne&s;s of ea&s;e, peace, and liberty of con&s;cience, that they &s;hould without extreme di&s;content be brought back into another hou&s;e of bondage, where the furnace of peremptory &s;ubjection is like to be heat every whit as hot, as in the other. Excellency of teaching, and that abundant light of the knowledge of God, which hath &s;hined from the Mini&s;tery among&s;t us, into the hearts of many thou&s;ands, have made the con&s;cience very &s;oft and tender in many. And where
<PB N="89" REF="51">con&s;cience is tender, a little violence is a great torment to it.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His third Rea|&s;on An&s;werd.</NOTE>To <HI>A. S.</HI> his third rea&s;on, to prove the intolerablene&s;s of a Tole|ration, wee an&s;wer, that the inward parts of it are but vanity and fal&s;hood. For, 1. It &s;uppo&s;eth that malignant &s;uppo&s;ition we &s;pake of, <HI>viz.</HI> that Presbyterie and Apologi&s;me, make two differing Reli|gions. 2. That there is <HI>no State in Chri&s;tendome, where there is one only Religion e&s;tabli&s;hed, that will admit the publike exerci&s;e of any other;</HI> which is manife&s;tly untrue, as is notoriou&s;ly known in <HI>France,</HI> the <HI>Low-Countries, &amp;c.</HI> 3. And la&s;tly, it &s;uppo&s;eth, that Apologi&s;me, in ca&s;e it be tolerated, mu&s;t needs become a Schi&s;me in that Religion which is e&s;tabli&s;hed in the Land. Wee conceive, that every difference in judgement doth not make a Schi&s;me in that Religion which is pro|fe&s;&s;ed on both &s;ides; we &s;hall then finde abundance of the weed grow|ing in the Presbyterian field it &s;elf. I my &s;elf know differences not a few among&s;t that party; and &s;ome not of the lighte&s;t con&s;equence. Or, if his meaning be, that the practice of it, in ca&s;e of a Toleration, &s;hould become a <HI>Schi&s;me</HI> from the Presbyterian Church or Govern|ment, wee an&s;wer, 1. That as yet wee have no Presbyterian Church or Government among&s;t us; and &s;o, if the toleration be granted be|fore &s;uch a Government be e&s;tabli&s;hed, it is apparently <GAP DESC="foreign">, out of the reach of &s;uch an imputation for ever. 2. If it be not a Schi&s;me before, and without a toleration, I do not apprehend what influ|ence or a&s;pect a Toleration &s;hould have upon it, to make it one. 3. And la&s;tly, I conceive him to be an incompetent Judge, uncapable of knowing or determining what a Schi&s;me is, who acknowledgeth his ignorance or non-knowledge of what a Church is, which is a <HI>A. S.</HI> his Profe&s;&s;ion or confe&s;&s;ion (which you will) <HI>pag.</HI> 21. <HI>And in this al&s;o we con&s;e&s;s our ignorance, that wee know not wherein con&s;i&s;teth its e&s;&s;ence or being</HI> (&s;peaking of a Church) I cannot believe that he &s;hould perfectly know the nature of darkne&s;s, that is ignoranant of what be|longs to light; nor that he &s;hould know what death is, who is igno|rant wherein life con&s;i&s;teth; nor that he &s;hould know what a <HI>&s;chi&s;me</HI> or rent means, that knows not what belongs to the unity and intire|ne&s;s of the body. The rule among the &s;ons of Rea&s;on, in all &s;uch ca&s;es as the&s;e, is this; <HI>Rectum e&s;t index &s;ui &amp; obliqui;</HI> And again, that <HI>en<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ia privativa cogno&s;cuntur ex &s;uis po&s;itivis&punc; &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His fourth Rea&s;on An|&s;wered.</NOTE>Your 4^t^h Rea&s;on, is rather &s;omewhat el&s;e then a Rea&s;on; a confe&s;|&s;ion of the dimne&s;s or weakne&s;s of your &s;ight. <HI>I cannot &s;ee</HI> (&s;ay you) <HI>how</HI> (a Toleration) <HI>can well be denyed to other Sects, if it be granted to our Brethren;</HI> But,</P>
<P N="1"><PB N="90" REF="52">
1. Do you remember, how you quip your Brethren (as here you call them) for a like expre&s;&s;ion us'd by them, <HI>pag.</HI> 41. <HI>If yee &s;ee no Scrip|ture for it, yet others</HI> (you tell them) <HI>may &s;ee.</HI> So here wee tell you, that though <HI>you cannot &s;ee how</HI> a Toleration <HI>can well be denyed to other Sect<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">, if it &s;hould be granted unto your Brethren,</HI> yet others may &s;ee how very well it may. <HI>Bernardus non videt omnia.</HI></P>
<P N="2">2. It is much that you &s;hould not be able to <HI>&s;ee</HI> &s;uch a thing as this, who have &s;uch command over your eyes (as was noted formerly) as to &s;ee what you will. Is it a matter of &s;uch profound and difficult &s;pe|culation, to conceive, how hee that hath the keeping of a door with lock and key, and bolts to it, &s;hould let in one man that knocks, with|out letting in all comers?</P>
<P N="3">3. Whereas you determine it to be a <HI>Que&s;tion inextricable, to expound cleerly, what &s;ects and what opinions are to be tolerated, and what not,</HI> do you not prevaricate with your own cau&s;e and confidence, and put the Ma|gi&s;trate to a &s;tand, whether he &s;hould tolerate your opinion for Presby|terian government, or not? Nay, do you not put him out of all hope of ever coming to a cleer re&s;olution of what is his duty to do in this kind? For what patent can you &s;hew from heaven, why this opinion of yours &s;hould not abide the te&s;t and triall of that law, which here you impo&s;e upon others? I believe there are very few, either Sects or Opinions among&s;t us (in both w^c^h notwith&s;tanding we abound more then is for our comfort) that either are liable to more con&s;iderable and materiall exceptions, or that have been dealt with by an higher hand of oppo&s;i|tion and conviction, then this of yours. And why any one opinion which is in the &s;ame or greater condemnation of un&s;atisfactorine&s;s and ambiguity, then others, &s;hould magnifie it &s;elf to rule all others with a rod of iron, and to break them in pieces like a Potters ve&s;&s;ell, equity or rea&s;on, (for my part) I know none: and I fear <HI>A. S.</HI> him|&s;elf is as poor in this commodity, as I.</P>
<P N="4">4. If it be &s;o <HI>inextricable a Que&s;tion, to expound cleerly, what &s;ects and opinions are to be tolerated, and what not,</HI> how will you do to &s;way your Presbyterian Scepter with judgement and equity? How will you know what opinions <HI>donare Eccle&s;i&acirc;,</HI> to make free denizens of your Church, and what to disfranchi&s;e? By your own rule it is an <HI>inextri|cable Que&s;tion, cleerly</HI> to determine <HI>what opinions are to be tolerated, and what not.</HI> And if the Que&s;tion be &s;o difficult above mea&s;ure, to deter|mine what opinions are to be <HI>tolerated, and what not,</HI> it mu&s;t needs be yet of a farre more difficult and weighty con&s;ideration, to re&s;olve what are fit to be countenanced, to be e&s;tabli&s;hed, yea, and yet more,
<PB N="91" REF="52">to be impo&s;ed, to be inforced upon the judgements and con&s;ciences of men, <HI>and what not;</HI> toleration being an act of a farre lighter impor|tance, then either an e&s;tabli&s;hment, or an enforcement.</P>
<P N="5">5. And la&s;tly, whereas he addes (in the clo&s;e of this rea&s;on) that <HI>the le&s;&s;e the difference be, the greater is the &s;chi&s;me,</HI> and addes no more; I mar|vell who he thinks will entertain &s;uch a &s;aying, the old Writ of <HI>Ip&s;e dixit</HI> being out of date long agoe: yet the &s;aying &s;omewhat confirms me in what I &s;aid before, <HI>viz</HI> that the man knows not what belongs to a <HI>&s;chi&s;m.</HI> For doth he here by a <HI>&s;chi&s;m</HI> under&s;tand anything that is &s;inful? Then he makes the le&s;&s;er difference from the truth, to be a greater &s;in, then a greater would be. If his meaning be, that the le&s;&s;e materiall the ground or rea&s;on of any mans di&s;&s;enting from a major part be, the greater is his fault, or &s;in, in di&s;&s;enting; We an&s;wer, that his Argu|ment proceeds, not onely <HI>a non conce&s;&s;is,</HI> but al&s;o <HI>a non concedendis:</HI> for to di&s;&s;ent from a major part, though the grounds of a mans di&s;&s;ent be no matters of deep con&s;equence, yet if they be &s;uch wherein his judge|ment and con&s;cience are not &s;atisfied, his di&s;&s;ent is no <HI>&s;in</HI> at all, and con|&s;equently cannot be the <HI>greater &s;in.</HI> Gnats mu&s;t not be &s;wallowed for any mans &s;ake more then Camels.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 5 rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>To his fifth Rea&s;on we an&s;wer. Fir&s;t, that &s;uppo&s;e <HI>God in the Old Te&s;tament granted no toleration of divers Religions, or di&s;ciplines,</HI> doth it follow from hence, that you &s;hould grant none neither? Dare you &s;ay in matters of knowledge, authority and power, <HI>Ero &s;imilis Alti&s;&s;i|mo,</HI> you will be like the Highe&s;t? Remember the fall of the <HI>&s;on of the morning.</HI> Will you &s;et your thre&s;hold by Gods, and compare with him for excellencie of knowledge, or infallibilitie of di&s;cerning? If you could a&s;&s;ure us, after the rate of a divine a&s;&s;urance, that that <HI>Religion and Di&s;cipline</HI> which you would impo&s;e on us, are in all points &s;ound, and ju&s;tifiable in the &s;ight of God, we could much better beare the height of your indignation again&s;t a toleration of any di&s;cipline or opinions but your own.</P>
<P>Secondly, though God granted no &s;uch toleration (as you &s;peak of) <HI>in terminis,</HI> yet he &s;traightly prohibited all manner of violence, op|pre&s;&s;ion, and hard mea&s;ure among his people one towards another; and in &s;peciall manner charged it upon the con&s;ciences of the rich, not to take any advantage of the povertie of their brethren, to exact upon them, en&s;lave them, and the like. Though &s;uch Lawes as the&s;e, in the letter of them, re&s;pected onely civill tran&s;actions and dealings be|tween men, yet the equitie and &s;pirit of them extends to &s;pirituals al|&s;o, men being every whit as liable to violence, oppre&s;&s;ion, and hard
<PB N="92" REF="53">mea&s;ure from men for their con&s;cience &s;ake, as in any other re&s;pects, or upon any other grounds what&s;oever. Therefore in ca&s;e there had been a minor party in that Nation, that had been of a peculiar judge|ment by them&s;elves, about the &s;en&s;e and meaning of &s;uch or &s;uch a Law, relating unto practice (as Lawes generally doe in one kinde or other) and &s;o had di&s;&s;ented in this practice from the major part of their brethren in their Nation; in ca&s;e this major part had taken the advan|tage of their brethrens weakne&s;&s;e, and becau&s;e they were fewer in number, &s;hould have forc'd them, again&s;t the light of their judgments, to alter their practice, or if they refu&s;ed, &s;hould have troden and trampled upon them, or any wayes evill intreated them, it had been as apparent a breach of the Laws we &s;pake of, as any oppre&s;&s;ion or vio|lence in civill proceedings. And the truth is, that for men that are tru|ly con&s;cientious, civill liberty (as it is called) <HI>i.</HI> freedome from ille|gall taxes, impo&s;itions, exactions, impri&s;onments, without libertie of con&s;cience, is an accommodation of little value; yea, without this, &s;uch men are not capable of much ea&s;e or benefit by the other. They are &s;till in danger of being in trouble and mole&s;tation from the State, for their con&s;cience &s;ake.</P>
<P N="3">3. Though God gave no &s;uch toleration (as you &s;peak of) by a law, yet he did actually tolerate for a long time together with much pati|ence, not onely a minor, but a major part of the Jewi&s;h Nation, in a manner the whole Nation, and that not only in &s;ome opinions or pra|cti&s;es, which were di&s;putably fal&s;e or &s;infull, but even in &s;uch which were notoriou&s;ly and unque&s;tionably &s;uch. <GAP DESC="foreign"> (&s;aith <HI>Paul, Act.</HI> 13.18.) <HI>He &s;uffered</HI> (or tolerated) <HI>their manners in the wilderne&s;&s;e four|tie yeares;</HI> and afterwards in the land of Canaan, many and many a yeare longer, even <HI>till there was no remedy</HI> (as the Scripture &s;omewhere &s;peaketh. So then, if you be willing to follow the practice and exam|ple of God (an honour whereunto you &s;eem to pretend in this Rea|&s;on) you mu&s;t tolerate your brethren, not onely in &s;ome opinions and practi&s;es which are dialectically and topically evill, but even in tho&s;e which are demon&s;tratively &s;uch.</P>
<P N="4">4. And la&s;tly, whereas you adde, that <HI>the New Te&s;tament requireth no le&s;&s;e union among Chri&s;tians, then the old did amongst the Jewes,</HI> we ac|knowledge the truth of what you &s;ay, but the pertinencie of it to your purpo&s;e, we yet de&s;ire. Though the <HI>New Te&s;tament requires union a|mongst Chri&s;tians,</HI> and that very ardently and pre&s;&s;ingly, yet it doth not require him that is &s;tronger to cudgell him that is weaker into the &s;ame opinion with him. If you be of a better growth and &s;tature
<PB N="93" REF="53">in knowledge then we, and comprehend &s;uch truths as wee doe not yet under&s;tand, we are mo&s;t willing, as farre and as fa&s;t, as meat and nouri&s;hment will doe it, to grow up unto you; onely we would not be rack'd or &s;tretch'd to the &s;ame &s;tature or proportion with you. We &s;hewed in our &s;econd Chapter, what meanes the new Te&s;tament hath appointed and &s;anctified, for the effecting of the unitie among&s;t the Saints, which it requireth of them.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 1. Rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>For your &s;ixt Rea&s;on (&s;o called) wee can &s;carce &s;ee the face of a Rea&s;on in it. You &s;ay that if <HI>your brethren do a&s;&s;ent to your Doctrine, and are re&s;olved likewi&s;e to a&s;&s;ent to your Di&s;cipline, which &s;hall be e&s;tabli&s;hed by common con&s;ent, they need no other toleration then the re&s;t.</HI> If your meaning be, that in ca&s;e <HI>they a&s;&s;ent to your Doctrine, and are re&s;olved to a&s;&s;ent to your Di&s;cipline, viz.</HI> immediately and out of hand, as &s;oone as it comes from under the hammer, and hath but the &s;tamp of Presbyteriall Au|thoritie &s;et upon it, we are clearly of your mind, and doe not conceive, how or why they &s;hould need any other alteration, then what others have. Onely we &s;omewhat marvell that you &s;hould &s;o farre forget your &s;elfe, as to imply (by this your expre&s;&s;ion) that even your Presbyteri|an partie it &s;elfe &s;tandeth <HI>in need of a toleration,</HI> as well as ours. <HI>Jam &s;u|mus ergo pares.</HI> Truth (I &s;ee) is &s;ometimes too quick and cunning for her adver&s;aries. But if your meaning be, that a re&s;olution <HI>in your Bre|thren</HI> (the Apologi&s;ts) <HI>to a&s;&s;ent to your Di&s;cipline, viz.</HI> when, and a&s;|&s;oon as they can po&s;&s;ibly &s;atisfie them&s;elves touching the lawfulne&s;&s;e of it, will exempt them from a nece&s;&s;itie of a Toleration, both they (we &s;uppo&s;e) and our &s;elves &s;hall be very glad to heare &s;uch tydings from your pen. We make no que&s;tion but they are as throughly <HI>re&s;ol|ved to a&s;&s;ent to your Di&s;cipline</HI> upon &s;uch termes, as you can de&s;ire them.</P>
<P>That you adde, is very incongruous. <HI>It would fir&s;t be di&s;cu&s;&s;ed</HI> (&s;ay you) <HI>wherein they are re&s;olved to di&s;&s;ent.</HI> Fir&s;t, we marvell who you meane &s;hould <HI>di&s;cu&s;&s;e</HI> that wherein they &s;hould be <HI>re&s;olved to di&s;&s;ent:</HI> e&s;pecially con&s;idering, Secondly, that they do not u&s;e to take up their re&s;olutions beforehand, not &s;o much as to di&s;&s;ent at all, much le&s;&s;e wherein or about what they &s;hall di&s;&s;ent. Thirdly, how &s;hould they re&s;olve beforehand, wherein, or whereabout to di&s;&s;ent, except they could prophecie of your future thoughts and re&s;olutions?</P>
<P>You would further have it <HI>con&s;idered</HI> (but you tell us not here nei|ther by whom) <HI>whether it be of &s;o great importance, that in con&s;ideration thereof, they dare not, in good con&s;cience entertain communion with you.</HI> We &s;carce under&s;tand your Engli&s;h, or meaning, here; and therefore if we
<PB N="94" REF="54">an&s;wer be&s;ides your mind, your words are in fault. We grant that o|ther men of good abilities, con&s;ciencee and learning, may draw up a very &s;atisfactory re&s;olution concerning &s;uch or &s;uch a ca&s;e, or pra|cti&s;e, about which I am &s;crupled; but it will not follow from hence, that therfore this re&s;olution wil be &s;atisfactory unto me, or that I with a good con&s;cience may walk by it. Though the particular rea&s;on or rea&s;ons, one or more, upon which the Apologi&s;ts &s;hall refu&s;e to enter|tain &s;uch a communion with you, as you mean (or at lea&s;t &s;hould mean, if you &s;peak any thing to purpo&s;e) &s;hould be by never &s;o many, and upon never &s;o much con&s;ideration, adjudged as in&s;ufficient, or in|con&s;iderable to cau&s;e any &s;uch refu&s;all in them; yet this will not im|po&s;e a nece&s;&s;ity upon them to joyn in communion with you, except you can make them capable of a &s;ufficiencie of rea&s;on in &s;uch a re&s;olu|tion why they may with a good con&s;cience &s;ubmit unto it.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 7. Rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>To your &s;eventh Rea&s;on we an&s;wer, Fir&s;t, that though the <HI>Apolo|gi&s;ts &s;hould not be pre&s;&s;ed to be actors in any thing again&s;t their con&s;ciences,</HI> yet there is a nece&s;&s;ity lying upon them <HI>to be &s;uiters for a toleration,</HI> (I mean, in ca&s;e it will not be granted them without &s;uing for, which would be a greater honour to your Presbytery, then the contrary pe|remptorine&s;&s;e is like to be) <HI>viz.</HI> that &s;o they may be actors of good, according to their con&s;ciences. Suppo&s;e <HI>A. S.</HI> had bread and water, wherewith to &s;ub&s;i&s;t, but withall had a good &s;um of money due to him, and that from one that was very well able to make payment, or otherwi&s;e had an opportunitie to preferre him&s;elfe to &s;ome place of pr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">fit, credit, or the like, if hee would but become a &s;uitor for it, would he thinke that he had no need either to require his money of him in who&s;e hand it lies, or to &s;ue for &s;uch preferment? The <HI>Apolo|gi&s;ts</HI> conceive there is a nece&s;&s;ity upon them, to &s;ave the &s;ouls of o|thers, yea of as many as they can lawfully purcha&s;e an opportunity to &s;ave, as well as their own. But,</P>
<P>Secondly, we know not by what authority or intere&s;t you under|take to &s;ecure them, <HI>that they &s;hall not be pre&s;&s;ed to be actors in any thing again&s;t <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">eir con&s;ciences.</HI> It may be you are but of the ordinary Presby|terian &s;tature and pitch; and &s;o <HI>your mercies,</HI> though &s;omewhat &s;evere, yet po&s;&s;ibly may not be very <HI>cruell:</HI> But (&s;aith the Scripture) <HI>in tho&s;e d<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">yes there were Giants in the earth,</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">Gen. 6.4.</NOTE> as well as men of the common &s;tandard; &s;o wee feare a partie among&s;t you of Hyper-presbyte|rian &s;pirits, who&s;e Spring-tides may &s;well beyond your Low-water marks. But&punc;</P>
<P>Thirdly (and la&s;tly) we conceive this promi&s;e of yours to them,
<PB N="95" REF="54"><HI>that they &s;hall not be pre&s;&s;ed to be actors,</HI> &amp;c. to be broken by your &s;elfe &s;even times over in your di&s;cour&s;e, and by others of your party from time to time. To con&s;ent unto your government, is (doubtle&s;&s;e) to act again&s;t their con&s;cience; otherwi&s;e they had no rea&s;on to di&s;&s;ent from it. And whether to threaten them with a non-toleration, toge|ther with all the evils and mi&s;eries attending thereon, yea with paying for it in their pur&s;e and per&s;ons, in ca&s;e they will not con&s;ent unto it, (as &s;ome others of your party have done) be not a <HI>pre&s;&s;ing</HI> of them un|to it, we leave unto men, who&s;e judgments are not wholly &s;wallowed up in the gulfe of Presbyterian zeal, to determine.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 8. Rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>To your eighth rea&s;on, we an&s;wer, that wee finde very little heart or face of rea&s;on in it. The &s;trength of it (what ever it is) lies in this hypotheticall propo&s;ition: If it be <HI>again&s;t the nature of the communion of Saints to live in Sects apart, without communicating at the Lords table,</HI> then ought not the Apologi&s;ts to bee tolerated. But, &amp;c. But good <HI>A. S.</HI> doe you conceive the men would under a toleration, live with|out communicating at the Lords table? I know not what communi|on you have with their intentions of &s;pirits, more then I: but for the pre&s;ent, I am no man of your beliefe herein. Toleration or no Tolera|tion, I beleeve they will communicate at the Lords Table, and that oftner then twice a yeare.</P>
<P>Secondly, if living <HI>in Sects apart</HI> be &s;o offen&s;ive to your zeal over <HI>the communion of Saints,</HI> why do you not rather mediate a Toleration for them, then oppo&s;e it? If you &s;hall &s;uffer them to work with you, they will be &s;o much the more free to eat and drink with you, and to exerci&s;e all manner of Chri&s;tian friend&s;hip and familiarity with you. But if you &s;hall thru&s;t them into holes and corners, and judge them unworthy of all part and fellow&s;hip with you in the publick Mini&s;te|ry of the Go&s;pel, you impo&s;e little le&s;&s;e then a nece&s;&s;itie upon them to <HI>live apart,</HI> and to enjoy them&s;elves among&s;t them&s;elves; and be&s;ides repre&s;ent your &s;elves unto them as no wayes de&s;irous of communion with them. Therefore in this rea&s;on your premi&s;&s;es and conclu&s;ion are atutter defiance the one again&s;t the other</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 9. Rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>As for your ninth rea&s;on, it is every whit as wilde, and wide from the purpo&s;e as the former. For what if <HI>the Scripture exhorts us ever|more unto unity,</HI> and this unitie <HI>cannot be ea&s;ily procured by a Toleration of Sects;</HI> doth it therefore follow, that <HI>godly, learned,</HI> and <HI>orthodox men,</HI> &s;uch as being encouraged, though at an under-rate, are (as was for|merly &s;hewed) both able and likely to doe as good &s;ervice again&s;t <HI>Sects,</HI> as any men, are to be barr-hoy&s;ted, qua&s;h'd, cru&s;h'd, onely be|cau&s;e
<PB N="96" REF="55">they cannot &s;ay, <HI>A vi&s;ion,</HI> where other men &s;ay it? The Scrip|ture exhorts unto many things, which are not to be procured by eve|ry thing that is lawfull, no nor yet by every thing that is otherwi&s;e nece&s;&s;ary and fitting to be done. Were not this a ridiculous rea&s;oning, The Scripture exhorts <HI>to live godlily in this pre&s;ent world;</HI> but this cannot be procured by eating and drinking: Therefore eating and drinking are not to be tolerated. <HI>Apagecruentas nugas!</HI></P>
<P>Whereas you adde, that a <HI>Toleration of Sects cannot but daily beget new Schi&s;mes and divi&s;ions.</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that this allegation we have an&s;wered already once and againe: yet &s;econdly, we adde, that many inconveniences, &s;ickne&s;&s;es, di&s;ea&s;es, come by eating and drink|ing, yet are the&s;e to be tolerated in the world. Thirdly, we plead for no toleration of any Sect, (nor of any thing &s;o called) but which may &s;tand with the utmo&s;t that either <HI>A. S.</HI> with his pen, or his whole par|tie with theirs, can doe again&s;t them to &s;uppre&s;&s;e them. Fourthly, we hav<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="4 letters">erly prov'd, that Apologi&s;me is neither Sect nor Schi&s;me, no more then A. S&s;i&s;me is. Fifthly and la&s;tly, whereas you &s;ay, That <HI>a Toleration of Sects cannot but daily beget new Schi&s;mes, &amp;c.</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that <HI>Gods toleration,</HI> or <HI>long-&s;uffering</HI> towards &s;inners, doth not onely <HI>lead</HI> all &s;inners <HI>to repentance,</HI> but al&s;o bring many thereunto. And why &s;hould not mans <HI>toleration</HI> expect an effect an&s;werable hereunto? Secondly, the di&s;ciples in the &s;hip were as much afraid, that their dear Lord nd Ma&s;ter had been a foule &s;pirit, and would have &s;unk them in the Sea, as <HI>A. S.</HI> is afraid of a <HI>Toleration, that it mu&s;t needs beget new Schi&s;mes and divi&s;ions daily.</HI> But as the feared De&s;troyer proved the experienced pre&s;erver of that &s;hip and men, &s;o may <HI>A. S.</HI> his feared propagator of <HI>Schi&s;mes and Divi&s;ions,</HI> bee found an experienced de&s;troyer and di&s;&s;olver of them. That means of all other, which hath God in it, is like&s;t to doe the deed: And God (we know) was neither in the tempe&s;t nor in the earthquake, nor in the fire, but in the &s;till voice.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His to Rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>His tenth rea&s;on, being help'd, ri&s;eth up in this forme, <HI>If there was a greater difference amongst the members of the Church of Corinth, in the time of S. Paul, and yet they communicated together,</HI> and that by the <HI>Apo&s;tles exhortation,</HI> then ought not the Apologi&s;ts to be tolerated. But true is the former, therefore the latter al&s;o. We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that the fabrick of your Argument is built upon a fal&s;e foundation, or &s;uppo|&s;ition, <HI>viz.</HI> that the rea&s;on, why the Apologi&s;ts refu&s;e communion with you (you mean, I &s;uppo&s;e, in your &s;acramentall actions) is, be|cau&s;e of the latitude, weight or degree of the differences in iudgment
<PB N="97" REF="55">between you and them: whereas the rea&s;on of their refu&s;all in this kinde, is the nature or particularity of the difference, together with your practice depending upon your opinion in oppo&s;ition unto theirs, not the height, weight, or importance of either. A difference in judge|ment about the lawfulne&s;s of &s;tinted forms of prayer, is nothing &s;o ma|teriall or weighty, as a difference about the nature of Faith, Ju&s;tifica|tion, &amp;c. yet the lighter difference in this ca&s;e, makes per&s;ons &s;o dif|fering, uncapable of joyning together in Communion, in the u&s;e of &s;uch prayers; whereas the greater difference would not.</P>
<P>Secondly, if there were &s;o many and great <HI>differences amongst the members of the Church of Corinth,</HI> as you &s;peak of; and yet <HI>Paul</HI> no wayes per&s;waded or incouraged the predominant or major party among&s;t them, either to ca&s;t out, cut off, or &s;uppre&s;s the underling parties, but <HI>exhorted them unto mutuall communion, &amp;c.</HI> Why do not you content your &s;elf with the line of the &s;ame proce&s;s, and in &s;tead of di&s;|gracing, qua&s;hing, cru&s;hing, trampling on, only exhort the Sects and Schi&s;mes among&s;t you unto <HI>mutuall communion;</HI> and to the <HI>forbearance of Sects and Divi&s;ions?</HI> a practice which you do well to take notice of in the Apo&s;tle, but do ill to think that your own of club-law is better.</P>
<P>Thirdly (and la&s;tly) nor do wee know any ground or good bot|tome you have for your a&s;&s;umption, wherein you affirm, that <HI>there was greater difference amongst the members of the Church of Corinth,</HI> then is between the Apologi&s;ts and you. Old <HI>Ip&s;e dixit</HI> is made to carry this burthen alone.</P>
<P>Your eleventh Rea&s;on is very corpulent, but le&s;s active;<NOTE PLACE="marg">His 11. Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> the chief ingredients of it being <HI>Abbots</HI> and <HI>Priors, Convents</HI> and <HI>Mona&s;teries amongst the Papi&s;ts,</HI> S^t <HI>Francis,</HI> S^t <HI>Dominick,</HI> and <HI>the Donati&s;ts,</HI> with who&s;e opinion and practice, you &s;ay, the <HI>opinion of your Brethren too much &s;ymbolizeth.</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that <HI>Theologia &s;ymbolica non e&s;t ar|gume<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">tativa.</HI> Angels and Devils agree in &s;omething: yet this agree|ment is not impeachment,<NOTE PLACE="marg">Qui ut uni hare&s;i &s;uae a|d<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">tum at<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">fa|ceret, cuncta|rum haere&s; <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> &s;ph<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">mias <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="3 letters">ctabotur, <HI>Vincent. Lyr. cap. 16.</HI></NOTE> either to the holine&s;s or happine&s;s of the Angels. <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf &s;ymbolizeth with <HI>Ne&s;torius</HI> the Heretique in one property; of whom <HI>Vincentius Lyrinen&s;is</HI> reporteth, that <HI>to make way for his own here&s;ie</HI> [or opinion] <HI>hee fell heavie upon all here&s;ies be|&s;ide.</HI> Secondly, whereas he affirmeth, that <HI>the opinion of his Brethren is not unlike to the Convents and Mona&s;teries amongst the Papi&s;ts;</HI> certain|ly the unlikene&s;s between them is for greater, then that between an Apple and an Oi&s;ter. We cannot but wonder, how, or in what re&s;pect, the man &s;hould conceive, that an inward, &s;pirituall and notionall
<PB N="98" REF="56">thing, as an opinion is, &s;hould be like a great building made of lime and &s;tone, or a pack of die fellows in a fat Fraternity. Thirdly, where|as hee in&s;inuates a hatefull &s;imilitude between his <HI>Brethren</HI> and the <HI>Donati&s;ts, who</HI> (hee tels us) <HI>&s;eparated them&s;elves from other Churches, under pretext that they were not &s;o holy as their own;</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that this in&s;inuation will not &s;o much as in &s;hew touch all the Apo|logi&s;ts however, becau&s;e &s;ome of them (we believe) have no <HI>Churches of their own;</HI> and therefore they cannot pretend more holine&s;s in them, then in others. Secondly, that neither in &s;ub&s;tance or truth doth it touch any of them, or their opinion. For, fir&s;t they do not &s;epa|rate from other Churches, but only in &s;uch opinions and practices wherein they cannot get leave of their con&s;ciences to joyn with among&s;t their Churches them&s;elves, one from another; one di&s;|&s;enting from another, not only in many opinions, but in &s;ome ma|teriall practices (as before was touch'd, and that from <HI>A. S.</HI> his own pen, no wayes partiall you may think in &s;uch a ca&s;e.) Secondly, we would know whether <HI>A. S.</HI> him&s;elf and his party, doth not as much <HI>&s;ymbolize with the Donati&s;ts</HI> in that criticall property or practice we &s;peak of, as the Apologi&s;ts. For under what pretext do they &s;e|parate from the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> and from Epi&s;copall Churches, but only this, that they think <HI>not their Churches, to be as holy as their own?</HI> If they &s;eparate from them upon any other grounds, it were not much materiall, though they held communion with them &s;till. Yea, thirdly, if they do not think their Presbyteriall Churches <HI>more holy</HI> then the Congregationall, they are far more guilty of Schi&s;me and Separation, then their Brethren here &s;poken of. For then they are at liberty in point of con&s;cience, to come over and joyn with them; when as the other are in bands and fetters of con&s;cience, and can|not pa&s;s unto them. Their Brethren would gladly come over unto them, but cannot: they can come over unto the&s;e but will not. It is the will, not the act, that makes Schi&s;me and Separation. Fourth|ly, we do not &s;ee, as deep as you have laid the charge, wherein the Apologi&s;ts do any whit more &s;ymbolize with Convents, Mona&s;teries, or Orders, among&s;t the Papi&s;ts, then you and your friends. You tell them, that <HI>all their Churches believe one Doctrine together with you, and that every one of the&s;e Churches hath one Mini&s;ter, as the</HI> Popi&s;h <HI>Convents a particular Abbot or Prior.</HI> Wee pray you, do not <HI>all your Churches believe one Doctrine together? and hath not every one of your Churches one Mini&s;ter?</HI> Wherein then lies the difference between
<PB N="99" REF="56">you and them? or wherein do they &s;ymbolize more with Convents or Mona&s;teries, then your &s;elf? Nay, (fifthly and la&s;tly) as if you had quite forgotten your rhomb, you tacitely couple your &s;elf with tho&s;e Popi&s;h Convents, Mona&s;teries, and Orders, in one ignoble con&s;i|deration, from which you acquit your Brethren. <HI>They only differ</HI> (&s;ay you to them) <HI>in this, that yee have no Generall, or any thing an&s;werable thereunto, to keep you in unity and conformity;</HI> plainly implying, that your Presbyterians have, <HI>viz.</HI> their &s;overaign Judicatory. So that if this your rea&s;on &s;hould but take place, and be held valid, it is your Presbyterian party, not the party Apologizing, that ought to &s;uffer the non-toleration you &s;peak of; it being they, not the&s;e, that are the great &s;ymbolizers with S^t <HI>Francis,</HI> and S^t <HI>Dominick.</HI></P>
<P>To your twelfth Rea&s;on,<NOTE PLACE="marg">His 12. Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> we have given an&s;wer upon an&s;wer for|merly; as fir&s;t, where we con&s;idered of the <HI>examples of the Kings of Judah,</HI> and &s;hewed how little they contribute to the claim of <HI>coer|cive power</HI> in the Magi&s;trate, to take away Here&s;ies, Schi&s;mes, Super|&s;titions, &amp;c. Secondly, where we argued again&s;t &s;uch a power by &s;e|verall demon&s;trations. Thirdly, where we gave an account al&s;o, how Toleration is no way either to Schi&s;me, Here&s;ie, &amp;c. So that that there is not one <HI>apex</HI> or <HI>icta</HI> of this Rea&s;on remaining unan&s;wered.</P>
<P>The Logico-Divinity of your thirteenth Rea&s;on,<NOTE PLACE="marg">His 13. Rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE> con&s;i&s;teth in this Enthymeme. <HI>If we have but one God, one Chri&s;t, and one Lord, one Spirit, one Faith, one Bapti&s;me, (whereby we enter into the Church) and are one Bo|dy, we ought to have one Communion, whereby to be &s;piritually fed,</HI> and <HI>one Di&s;cipline to be ruled by:</HI> and if &s;o, then ought not the Apologi&s;ts to be tolerated. We an&s;wer, that neither doth your inference or conclu&s;ion here at all follow from your premi&s;&s;es. We have all you &s;peak of, one, one, and one; and in regard of that multiplied unitie, <HI>we ought</HI> (as you &s;ay) <HI>to have one Communion, and one Di&s;cipline;</HI> But fir&s;t, not nece&s;&s;ari|ly that <HI>Communion,</HI> or <HI>that Di&s;cipline,</HI> which are of Cla&s;&s;ique in&s;pira|tion, no more then tho&s;e which are either of Papall, or Epi&s;copall re|commendation; becau&s;e, though wee judge the&s;e two latter &s;pirits more &s;phalmaticall, erroneous and dangerous then the fir&s;t, yet wee cannot think, that either the Pope or Bi&s;hops, or both together, have &s;o ingro&s;&s;ed the &s;pirit of erreour and fallibility, but that they have left of that anointing more then enough to initiate all other Orders, Societies, and Profe&s;&s;ions of men in the world. Secondly, though wee <HI>ought to have one Communion and Di&s;cipline,</HI> yet ought wee to be led into this unity, by the hand of an Angel of light, not to be frighted into it by an evill angel of fear and terrour. Thirdly, that duty which
<PB N="100" REF="57">lies upon all Chri&s;tians, <HI>to have but one Communion and Di&s;cipline,</HI> among&s;t them, is no di&s;pen&s;ation unto any party or number of them, to &s;mite their Brethren with the fi&s;t of uncharitablene&s;s, or to di&s;|mount them from their mini&s;teriall &s;tandings in the Church, becau&s;e they will not, or rather cannot knit and joyn in the &s;ame Commu|nion and Di&s;cipline with them. Nay, fourthly, that very tye of duty which lies upon all Chri&s;tians <HI>to have but one</HI> and the &s;ame <HI>Commu|nion and Di&s;cipline</HI> among&s;t them, carries this ingagement upon them all along with it, to &s;hew all love, to u&s;e all manner of gentlene&s;s and long &s;uffering towards tho&s;e that are contrary minded to them either in the one or in the other, &s;ince love is not only a &s;odering and uniting affection, but further commends the per&s;on in whom it is found, as one to whom God hath appeared, and who hath been taught by him. Therefore fifthly (and la&s;tly) to make the ingagement that lies upon all Chri&s;tians to <HI>have but one Communion and Di&s;cipline</HI> a ground and rea&s;on why &s;uch as differ from others about the&s;e, &s;hould be evill intreated, &s;uppre&s;&s;ed, kept under hatches, or the like, is as if a man &s;hould plead that naturall affection which a parent ows unto his children, for a ground and motive why he &s;hould &s;harply &s;courge them when they are &s;ick and weak.</P>
<P>His fourteenth Rea&s;on is of an unknown &s;trength (at lea&s;t to me) If I were a Magi&s;trate,<NOTE PLACE="marg">His 14. Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> I &s;hould never the more know how to prepare to battell again&s;t the Apologi&s;ts or any other godly per&s;on, for the &s;ound of this trumpet. Surely, of all the re&s;t, this Rea&s;on will never be acce&s;&s;ary to the undoing of the&s;e men. However, let a poor man be heard in his cau&s;e. The Rea&s;on then with all the help it is capable of, ri&s;eth up but thus. <HI>If Churches have Di&s;ciplines or Governments different in their &s;pecies, then the Churches mu&s;t be different in their &s;pecies al&s;o. But the con&s;equent is fal&s;e,</HI> &s;ince there is but one Church: <HI>Ergo,</HI> Apologi&s;me is intolerable. They that can gather this conclu&s;ion out of the premi&s;&s;es, may very well hope <HI>to gather Grapes of Thorns, and Figs of Thi&s;tles.</HI> The con&s;equent in this argument, which the Di&s;pu|ter &s;aith, is fal&s;e, is this, <HI>Churches mu&s;t be different in their &s;pecies.</HI> If the meaning of this <HI>con&s;equent</HI> be, that there is an ab&s;olute nece&s;&s;ity, that Churches &s;hould <HI>differ &s;pecie</HI> one from another, the Di&s;putant is in the truth, in &s;aying the <HI>con&s;equent</HI> is fal&s;e. Or if the meaning be, that Churches ought to <HI>differ &s;pecie</HI> one from another, the &s;ame verdict may &s;till pa&s;s upon it. But upon that &s;uppo&s;ition which is made in the Antecedent of this argument, <HI>viz.</HI> that the&s;e Churches <HI>have Di|&s;ciplines or Governments different in their &s;pecies,</HI> the <HI>con&s;equent</HI> is not
<PB N="101" REF="57">only <HI>true,</HI> but nece&s;&s;arily true: and that upon the Di&s;putants own ground, which is, that <HI>all collective bodies that are governed, are dif|ferenced</HI> (&s;pecie) <HI>by their different governments.</HI> But be the <HI>Con&s;equent,</HI> or be the <HI>Antecedent,</HI> or be the <HI>Con&s;equence,</HI> be any thing, be nothing, or be every thing in the premi&s;&s;es, either true or fal&s;e, why &s;ho<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">d not the Apologi&s;ts be tolerated, notwith&s;tanding? Be the Sunne in <HI>Aries,</HI> or be it in <HI>Taurus,</HI> or be it in <HI>Capricorn,</HI> why &s;hould not <HI>A. S.</HI> be tolerated to write more books for the cau&s;e Presbyterian notwith|&s;tanding? I heare that upon the applau&s;e and approbation of this by his party, hee hath &s;ince put forth his hand to another;<NOTE PLACE="marg">Acts. 12.2, 3.</NOTE> as <HI>Herod</HI> &s;ee|ing that his butchery upon <HI>James plea&s;ed the people, put forth his hand to take</HI> Peter <HI>al&s;o.</HI></P>
<P>But is there nothing more in the Rea&s;on then this? Truly, if <HI>A. S.</HI> hides the trea&s;ure of his minde &s;o deep another time, digge for it who will for mee. For this once I have taken pains to finde it; and have found &s;omewhat which I conceive is like to it, if not Identically it. The man (I take it) would be here conceived to rea&s;on after this man|ner: <HI>If the Church of Chri&s;t ought to be ruled or governed, only with one &s;pecies or kinde of government, then ought not they to be &s;uffered, who go about to pluralize this government, or to &s;et up a kind of government in the Church, &s;pecifically differing from the government more generally practi&s;ed and e&s;tabli&s;hed. Sed verum prius: Ergo &amp; po&s;terius:</HI> and con&s;equently the Apologi&s;ts being men that would do &s;uch a thing as this, are not to be tolerated. If this be the argument, this is the An&s;wer. Fir&s;t, the con|&s;equence is lame, and halts right down; becau&s;e, though the Church of Chri&s;t ought to be governed with one and the &s;ame kinde of go|vernment throughout the world, yet it no wayes follows from hence, that therefore that government which is more generally e&s;tabli&s;hed and practi&s;ed in the world, &s;hould be that &s;pecificall government whereby it ought to be governed. If this con&s;equence were good, it would highly befriend the government Pontifician, but di&s;&s;olve and de&s;troy the government Presbyterian; becau&s;e the Pontifician govern|ment, is, (or at lea&s;t not long &s;ince was) far more oecumenicall, and comprehen&s;ive, then the Presbyterian either is, or is like to be. There|fore in framing this con&s;equence, the man hath given &s;entence again&s;t him&s;elf and his own beloved opinion touching Church-Di&s;cipline; and hath put a &s;word into the Popes hand to &s;mite as well the Con|&s;i&s;torian, as the Congregationall Government. And,</P>
<P>Secondly, &s;uppo&s;e the government more generally practi&s;ed in the world, be that very kinde of government, whereby the Churches of
<PB N="102" REF="58">Chri&s;t ought to be governed; yet, except this government, both as touching the lawfulne&s;s and nece&s;&s;ity of it, be &s;ufficiently cleered to the judgement and con&s;ciences of tho&s;e, from whom &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion to it is required (an honour whereunto <HI>A. S.</HI> his government hath not yet been preferred by all his great friends) they ought not to be &s;courged with <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">is Scorpions, if they demurre a while about their &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion thereunto; and in the mean &s;ea&s;on, de&s;ire to live under &s;uch a govern|ment, wherein they have double and treble &s;atisfaction, both in point of lawfulne&s;s and nece&s;&s;ity, above the other. Thirdly, and la&s;tly, though unity and uniformity in government be very fitting and ne|ce&s;&s;ary throughout the Churches of Chri&s;t, yet that the &s;ervants of Chri&s;t &s;hould fall foul one upon another, and the greater eat up the le&s;s for this uniformity &s;ake, is no wayes nece&s;&s;ary; e&s;pecially con|&s;idering that God (as hath been formerly &s;hewed) hath provided other means far more gracious, honourable and proper, for the bring|ing of the ble&s;&s;edne&s;s of this uniformity upon his Churches in due time. So that if there be any thing in this Rea&s;on, it is altogether with, and not at all again&s;t the Apologi&s;ts.</P>
<P>To your fifteenth,<NOTE PLACE="marg">His 15. Rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE> wee an&s;wer, fir&s;t, be it &s;uppo&s;ed, (which yet wee &s;hall pre&s;ently oppo&s;e) that <HI>neither Chri&s;t, nor his Apo&s;tles ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in the Church;</HI> yet did he or they ever grant a power to a major part of Profe&s;&s;ours in a Kingdom or Nation, to grind the faces of their Brethren, <HI>partakers of like precious faith</HI> and holine&s;s with them, either becau&s;e they could not in all points jump with them in their judgements, or becau&s;e they endeavoured to keep a good con&s;cience toward God, for following the ducture and guidance of their pre&s;ent light? If you will <HI>take without asking that,</HI> which <HI>neither Chri&s;t nor his Apo&s;tles ever granted</HI> you, you may very well bear it at the hands of your Brethren, if they humbly <HI>&s;ue</HI> and intreat for what they never granted; e&s;pecially con&s;idering that that which you <HI>take</HI> is imperious and high, tending to the annoyance and trouble of many; whereas that which they <HI>&s;ue</HI> for, is moderate and low, only a peaceable &s;tanding among&s;t you, that they may be able to do good unto many. Secondly, if <HI>neither Chri&s;t nor his Apo&s;tles</HI> (as you &s;ay) <HI>ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in his Church,</HI> how come you and your Government to be <HI>tolerated,</HI> your Government being &s;pecifically di|ver&s;ified from that of the Papacy (as if before ob&s;erved) which is more generall and exten&s;ive then yours? If you have not a toleration for your government, either from Chri&s;t or his Apo&s;tles, we are doubtfull
<PB N="103" REF="58">from whom, or whence you have it. Thirdly, doe you not by this rea&s;on build up the walls of Babylon, and &s;trengthen, the Papi&s;ts in their bloody errour, again&s;t the reformed Churches, upon which they looke as &s;chi&s;maticall from their Mother, and in that re&s;pect think them no wayes fit to be <HI>tolerated,</HI> but to be &s;uppre&s;&s;ed both in their doctrine and government, yea and in ca&s;e they will not be redu|ced to the principles of <HI>Rome,</HI> to be wholly extirpated and rooted out of the world? What can be &s;poken more to the heart of &s;uch ap|prehen&s;ions, and coun&s;els, and re&s;olutions as the&s;e, then that <HI>neither Chri&s;t nor his Apo&s;tles ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Go|vernments in the Church?</HI> Fourthly, whereas you &s;ay, that they <HI>granted no toleration to divers Sects,</HI> do you not imply, that they did grant a <HI>to|leration</HI> to &s;ome <HI>one Sect</HI> at lea&s;t, if not to more. And how know you whether the Sect of <HI>Apologi&s;me</HI> (in your improperating &s;tile) be not that Sect, or one of tho&s;e Sects, to which Chri&s;t and his Apo&s;tles (it &s;eems) granted a <HI>toleration?</HI> Is it not (I appeale to your judgement and con&s;cience) as like to be this as any other? Fifthly, we willingly grant your conclu&s;ion in this Rea&s;on, <HI>&s;en&s;u&s;ano;</HI> that there is no rea|&s;on why the <HI>Apologi&s;ts</HI> &s;hould <HI>&s;ue for a toleration,</HI> no nor yet properly, why they &s;hould be <HI>tolerated</HI> (<HI>toleration</HI> in propriety of &s;ignification, as was formerly noted, being <HI>rei malae</HI> appliable onely to that which i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> evill) but rather why they &s;hould be countenanced and encouraged. Therefore if you think that they &s;hall &s;in in <HI>&s;uing for a toleration,</HI> you &s;hall doe well to prevent that &s;in in them (and perhaps &s;hall withall prevent a greater of your owne) by declaring them per&s;ons worthy not of a <HI>toleration,</HI> but of encouragement; or at lea&s;t by procuring them a <HI>toleration,</HI> that they may not be put upon the tentation of &s;uing for it. But &s;ixthly and la&s;tly, to the main frame of your Rea&s;on: what doe you think of <HI>Sinite utrunque cre&s;cere, Let both grow together untill the Harve&s;t,</HI> Matth. 13.30. Is not here the <HI>toleration granted</HI> which you deny to be <HI>granted? Non lac lacti, nec ovum ovo &s;imilius;</HI> If it bee not this <HI>toleration,</HI> certainly it is &s;omewhat as like to it as like may be. You know who the Hou&s;holder is, that gave this order, laid this re|&s;traint upon his &s;ervants; otherwi&s;e the 37. ver&s;e will informe you. And who doe you think &s;hould be meant by the <HI>tares?</HI> You will not &s;ay, the good &s;ons of the Church, at lea&s;t &s;o acknowledged by their Mother. You cannot &s;ay (with rea&s;on) the loo&s;e, vicious, &amp;c. mo|rally di&s;ordered &s;ons of the Church, becau&s;e the&s;e were &s;own in the field before the <HI>Hou&s;holder &s;ew that good &s;eed</HI> therein (&s;poken of v. 24. and 38.) whereas <HI>the tares,</HI> which mu&s;t be let <HI>grow to harve&s;t,</HI> are ex|pre&s;ly
<PB N="104" REF="59">&s;aid to have been &s;own after, v. 25. And be&s;ides &s;uch wicked and vicious per&s;ons as the&s;e, at lea&s;t as the danger and degree of their wic|kedne&s;&s;e may be, ought to be gathered out of the State (and then they cannot <HI>grow in the field till harve&s;t</HI>) by the hand of the civill Magi|&s;trate. Therefore thirdly (and la&s;tly) you mu&s;t by <HI>the tares,</HI> of nece&s;&s;ity under&s;tand, &s;uch in the Church as you call <HI>Sectaries, Schi&s;maticks, He|retickes,</HI> &s;uch as corrupt the purity of the doctrine of the Go&s;pel, by erroneous and fal&s;e opinions, or at lea&s;t are look'd upon by the greater part of the re&s;pective Churches of Chri&s;t, as &s;uch. Which yet ap|pears further, by the rea&s;on which the Hou&s;holder renders unto his &s;ervants, why he would not have them pluck'd up, but grow untill the harve&s;t, <HI>le&s;t</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>while&s;t yee goe about to gather the tares, yee pluck up the wheat al&s;o.</HI> There is no danger of hurting or plucking up the wheat, <HI>i.</HI> the children of the Kingdome, v. 38. by puni&s;hing civill or morall mi&s;demeanours of men; but if Magi&s;trates or others' &s;hall be bu&s;ie about plucking up Sectaries, Heretiques, &amp;c. they will be in continuall danger <HI>of plucking up the wheat.</HI> Fir&s;t, becau&s;e many truly pious and con&s;cientious men, <HI>children of the Kingdome,</HI> may &s;oon be drawne in to &s;ome unwarrantable Sect and opinion: And &s;econdly, &s;uch opinions as are &s;entenced by the generality or major part of a Church, as erroneous or hereticall, and &s;o expo&s;e tho&s;e that hold them to the reprochfull names of Sectaries, Schi&s;matiques, Here|tiques, very often fall out to be the &s;acred truths of God, and the per|&s;ons holding them forth unto the world, the be&s;t and faithfulle&s;t of his &s;ervants.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 16. Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>For your &s;ixteenth rea&s;on, it concerneth others more then the <HI>A|pologi&s;ts,</HI> to an&s;wer; the frame of it being an indignabund relation (whether true or no, <HI>caveat lector</HI>) of what hard mea&s;ure the New-Englanders offered to &s;ome that de&s;ired to &s;it downe among&s;t them, <HI>becau&s;e they differed a little from them in point of di&s;cipline.</HI> The men here charged, are of age to &s;peak for them&s;elves; and be&s;ides, want no abi|lities otherwi&s;e. I make no que&s;tion, but if they had but the correct|ing of <HI>A. S.</HI> his Relation, they would be able to make more rea&s;on and equity of it, then without &s;ome correction or other, I am able to doe. But (to leave our brethren in New-England to their own Apo|logie) I would fain know of <HI>A. S.</HI> what he means to do with his &s;tory; or how he intends to bring it under contribution to his cau&s;e. For fir&s;t, he doth not onely not approve of tho&s;e proceedings, which he rela|teth, but is very pa&s;&s;ionate and intemperate in the very relation.</P>
<Q>Delicti fies idem reprehen&s;or, &amp; Author?</Q>
<P><PB N="105" REF="59">
Is the man &s;o full of the &s;pirit of reprehen&s;ion again&s;t &s;uch practi&s;es, and yet &s;o full of the &s;pirit of imitation al&s;o? Or what? Is his de&s;ire &s;o great, to appropriate or ingro&s;&s;e the power and practice of per&s;e|cuting for difference in religion to him&s;elfe and his own party, that he is not able patiently to beare the &s;ight of either in others? If your brethren in New-England &s;tumbled at the &s;tone you &s;peak of, <HI>per&s;ecu|ted</HI> (as you &s;ay) tho&s;e that <HI>were approved by them&s;elves both for their life and doctrine, meerly becau&s;e they differed a little from them in point of di&s;ci|pline,</HI> you have a faire warning; take heed that you doe not &s;tumble at the &s;ame &s;tone al&s;o. They (it's like) ju&s;tified them&s;elves in them&s;elves, in tho&s;e proceedings, though they did not &s;o in the &s;ight of God; but if you, having condemned them in what they did, &s;hall neverthele&s;&s;e run the &s;ame cour&s;e, you wil be both <GAP DESC="foreign"> and <GAP DESC="foreign">, both &s;elf-condemned, and God-condemned al&s;o, and &s;o have no cloak nor &s;hel|ter for your &s;in.</P>
<P>But you think it no wayes rea&s;onable, that the <HI>Apologi&s;ts,</HI> being of the <HI>&s;ame profe&s;&s;ion,</HI> (as you &s;peak) <HI>&s;hould be &s;uiters for a toleration in Old-England.</HI> We an&s;wer, fir&s;t, if you &s;peak with reference to tho&s;e pro|ceedings immediatly before reported by you, you are more of the <HI>&s;ame profe&s;&s;ion</HI> with them, then your brethren the <HI>Apologi&s;ts.</HI> The&s;e doe not profe&s;&s;e per&s;ecution <HI>meerly for a little difference in point of Di&s;cipline;</HI> the world knowes who they are that do little le&s;&s;e. Secondly, what though men of the &s;ame <HI>profe&s;&s;ion</HI> with them, mi&s;carried for want of &s;uch light, as &s;hould have directed them in a better way; mu&s;t this be a band of con&s;cience upon them, to <HI>bow down their backes</HI> without any more adoe, and to &s;uffer Presbyterian greatne&s;&s;e to <HI>go over them, as the &s;tones in the &s;treet?</HI> Nay thirdly, they have the more rea&s;on and ne|ce&s;&s;itie, in regard of &s;uch a mi&s;carriage of their brethren, <HI>to &s;ue for a toleration</HI> here; becau&s;e by that mi&s;carriage of theirs, they are awake|ned to expect and feare yet far harder mea&s;ure from you and your par|tie, if they doe not be&s;tirre them&s;elves by &s;ome means or other to pre|vent it. He that feeles the &s;mart of rods to be grievous, hath the more rea&s;on, not the le&s;&s;e, to take heed of being beaten with Scorpions. Fourthly (and la&s;tly) why &s;hould you any wayes be again&s;t your brethren &s;uing for a toleration, when as there lies a nece&s;&s;ity upon you to grant it or con&s;ent to it, unle&s;&s;e you mean to &s;teere that New-Eng|land cour&s;e, which you have with &s;o high a hand of indignation con|te&s;ted with, in this very rea&s;on? Except (haply) you have this ingenu|ous reach in it, for your reputations, that you would <HI>hone&s;t is precibus oc|currere,</HI> prevent all hone&s;t and rea&s;onable reque&s;ts with the early for|wardne&s;&s;e
<PB N="106" REF="60">of your bountie. If I could rea&s;onably thinke this to bee your de&s;igne, I would &s;eriou&s;ly per&s;wade with the <HI>Apologi&s;ts</HI> to wave their &s;uit for a toleration, and &s;o to gratifie you with an honourable opportunitie of doing good, before you were provoked by any mans &s;uit or motion to it.</P>
<P>But men that are &s;ubject to feares, are &s;eldome &s;ons of bounty. The bottome (it &s;eems) of all that <HI>A. S.</HI> hath pleaded throughout his Di&s;cour&s;e, again&s;t the <HI>Toleration</HI> of <HI>Apologi&s;me,</HI> is a &s;olemne <HI>fear</HI> that po&s;&s;e&s;&s;eth him, of being <HI>&s;ent</HI> he and <HI>all</HI> his partie <HI>into &s;ome I&s;le of Dogs,</HI> if the congregationall men <HI>bad</HI> but <HI>the upper hand over them. Omneti|midum natura querulum.</HI> But I can hardly beleeve that the man is re|ally afraid of what he here pretendeth; (in which ca&s;e he were rather to be pitied, then roundly dealt with) fir&s;t, becau&s;e him&s;elfe confe&s;|&s;eth, that &s;ome of <HI>his brethren</HI> hold, that all <HI>Sects and opinions</HI> are to be <HI>tolerated,</HI> p. 6. So that in ca&s;e the&s;e men &s;hould have the upper hand, he is a&s;&s;ured of a partie at lea&s;t among them, to &s;ecure him and his in that kind. Secondly, he confe&s;&s;eth again and again, that his brethren are <HI>very pious and holy men;</HI> and therefore certainly will not be &s;o dog|ged as to &s;end him and his into any <HI>I&s;le of Dogs.</HI> Thirdly, a poore <HI>tole|ration</HI> is as far from a &s;uperioritie of power, as rags are from the robe, or the dunghill from the throne. Fourthly, I doe not think that he knowes any &s;uch I&s;le as he &s;peaks of, whereinto he fears to be &s;ent, by the men of his indignation. Fifthly and la&s;tly, if he &s;hould be &s;ent in|to &s;ome <HI>I&s;le of Dogs,</HI> the &s;oyle and climate might probably agree well with him; he hath learned (it &s;eems) to bark and bite too, again&s;t his &s;ending thither.</P>
<P>To conclude, for this Rea&s;on, Whereas feare indeed ordinarily makes men cruell, it is much to be feared, <HI>A. S.</HI> onely pretends feare, that &s;o he may have a colour to be cruell.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 17. Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>To his &s;eventeenth Rea&s;on we an&s;wer. Fir&s;t, that the <HI>Scripture doth not forbid all,</HI> nor any <HI>&s;uch Toleration</HI> as the <HI>Apologi&s;ts</HI> de&s;ire. This was &s;ufficiently &s;hewed before in our an&s;wer to the fifteenth Rea|&s;on. His proofe from <HI>Revel.</HI> 2.20. holds no intelligence at all with his purpo&s;e; yea, it makes &s;ore again&s;t him&s;elfe and his Synedrion. For fir&s;t, by the <HI>toleration</HI> or <HI>&s;uffering of Jezabel,</HI> which is there charged as a &s;infull neglect upon the Church of <HI>Thyatira,</HI> is not meant a Civill or State-toleration, but an Eccle&s;ia&s;tick or Church-toleration. This Church &s;uffered fal&s;e Doctrines to be taught in her very bo&s;ome, and her members to bee corrupted and endangered thereby, from day to day, without laying it to heart being a matter of that &s;ad
<PB N="107" REF="60">con&s;equence) and without calling tho&s;e to an account that were the &s;owers of &s;uch tares, broachers &amp; &s;preaders of &s;uch opinions; yea with|out u&s;ing any means, to have the truth &s;oundly taught in oppo&s;ition to &s;uch Doctrines. Both Pa&s;tour and people (it &s;eems) <HI>&s;lept</HI> together, whil&s;t the <HI>envious man,</HI> by his Agent and Factre&s;s <HI>Jezabel, &s;owed the&s;e tares</HI> in their field. Such a toleration as this wee formerly &s;hewed to be &s;infull; and the Apologi&s;ts are as much again&s;t it as you; &s;o far are they from de&s;iring it, or &s;uing for it. They de&s;ire a Toleration for them&s;elves and their Churches in the Civill &s;tate; not that the errours which &s;pring up in their Churches, &s;hould be &s;uffered to fret like gangrens, without being oppo&s;ed by them, or be protected by the State. Secondly, whereas that particular Church alone is charged by Chri&s;t, with this toleration or <HI>&s;ufferance of Jezabel,</HI> and not any more Churches, whether neighbours or not neighbours to her, nor any <HI>com|bined Elder&s;hip,</HI> or <HI>&s;tate Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall,</HI> made of the con&s;ociation of the &s;even Churches, much le&s;s any &s;tate civill, evident it is, that the care and power of redre&s;&s;ing emerging enormities or evils in a Church in every kinde, is committed by Chri&s;t to every particular Church re|&s;pectively, within it &s;elf. And &s;o <HI>they that trouble the Church</HI> mu&s;t (as you &s;ay) <HI>be cut off.</HI> But by whom? not by the civill Magi&s;trate (if the trouble be &s;pirituall) nor by the combined Elder&s;hip, but by the par|ticular Church it &s;elf, which is troubled by them, in ca&s;e there be no remedy otherwi&s;e. Secondly, when you &s;ay, that <HI>there mu&s;t be no &s;uch &s;peeches among us, as I am of Paul, I am of Apollos,</HI> &amp;c. <HI>nor that &s;ome are Calvinians, &s;ome Independenters, &s;ome Browni&s;ts,</HI> &amp;c. And again, <HI>that we mu&s;t all be Chri&s;ts, wee mu&s;t all think and &s;peak the &s;ame thing, otherwi&s;e men are carnall,</HI> &amp;c. (with &s;ome other good words to like purpo&s;e) we joyn heart and hand with you in all the&s;e things, and are ready to con|tribute the be&s;t of our endeavours unto yours, if yee will &s;uffer us, to make the <HI>Tabernacle</HI> of God among&s;t us, <HI>according to this pattern</HI> which you &s;hew unto us. Such expre&s;&s;ions, <HI>I am of Paul, I of Apollos,</HI> &amp;c. together with the names of <HI>Calvinians, Independents, Browni&s;ts,</HI> &amp;c. are as untuncable in our eares, as in yours, &amp;c. But,</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, every man that &s;aith, <HI>I am of Paul,</HI> or, <HI>I am of Apollos,</HI> is not to be taught by <HI>Thorns</HI> and <HI>Briars,</HI> (as <HI>Gedeon</HI> taught the men of <HI>Succoth</HI>) to &s;peak better, by fining, impri&s;oning, unchurching, or the like; but by &s;oundne&s;s of conviction, and whole&s;omne&s;s of in|&s;truction from the Word of God. The <HI>German<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"></HI> have a &s;aying, That <HI>etiam in l<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">trone puniendo pote&s;t peccari.</HI> A man may &s;in in pu|ni&s;hing him that mo&s;t of all de&s;erves it. It is not enough for us
<PB N="108" REF="61">to corre&s;pond with God in his ends, but we mu&s;t keep as clo&s;e to him in his meanes al&s;o. Secondly, whereas you &s;ay, <HI>we must all be Chri&s;ts;</HI> &s;urely there is none of tho&s;e Sects you &s;peak of, but are willing to joyn with you in being his, and in being called by his Name, rather then by any other. We fear, the&s;e unhappie &s;ounds, of <HI>Independents, Browni&s;ts, Anabapti&s;ts,</HI> &amp;c. are more frequently made of your breath, then of the breath of any other &s;ort, or &s;ect of men among&s;t us. Third|ly, whereas you adde, <HI>Neither hath the Church of God a cu&s;tome to be con|tentious;</HI> the Apo&s;tle indeed &s;aith, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 11.16. <HI>that the Churches of God have no &s;uch cu&s;tome;</HI> but he doth not &s;ay, that the&s;e <HI>Churches of God</HI> had any cu&s;tome, to erect a Presbyterian throne, or a <HI>combined elder&s;hip</HI> a|mong&s;t them, to keep them from contentions. Fourthly, whereas you tell us, that <HI>neither permitteth the Apo&s;tle Schi&s;mes;</HI> we tell you that we have already told you (and that once and again) both in what &s;en&s;e he permitteth them, and in what not, and have &s;hewed you our concur|rence with him in both. Fifthly (and la&s;tly) in that you tell us, that <HI>we mu&s;t not quit our mutuall meetings, as others do, and as mu&s;t</HI> (you &s;ay) <HI>be done in a publique Toleration,</HI> we neither well under&s;tand the &s;en&s;e of your words, much le&s;s any purport in them to your pupo&s;e. We do not know what <HI>quitting</HI> of <HI>meetings</HI> there is like to be more, under a <HI>publique toleration,</HI> then is for the pre&s;ent.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 18. Rea|&s;on An&s;wered.</NOTE>Your eighteenth Rea&s;on is &s;o Atheologicall, and unworthy your cau&s;e, that the very naming of it might be An&s;wer &s;ufficient. <HI>A to|leration</HI> (&s;ay you) <HI>cannot but expo&s;e your Churches unto the calumnies of Papi&s;ts, who evermore object unto Prote&s;tants the innumerable number of the&s;e Sects, whereas they pretend to be nothing but one Church.</HI> Will you redeem your &s;elfe out of the hand of Popi&s;h calumnies, by &s;ymbolizing with them? will you turne Turk, that you may not &s;uffer Turki&s;h in&s;o|lencies and thraldome? Surely you forget your argument in&s;i&s;ted up|on in your eleventh Rea&s;on: There you make <HI>&s;ymbolizing</HI> with Papi&s;ts, a rea&s;on again&s;t your Brethren and their Opinions, why they &s;hould not be tolerated; and here you make a defect or want in them of &s;ym|bolizing with them, a rea&s;on likewi&s;e why they &s;hould not be tole|rated. It &s;eems contradictions, incon&s;i&s;tences, impertinences, un|intelligibilities, &s;en&s;e, non&s;en&s;e, any thing, nothing, will &s;erve to make rea&s;ons again&s;t the poor Independenters (as you call them) why they mu&s;t not be tolerated. Was not the con&s;ideration of your own, <HI>pag.</HI> 14. <HI>that the Devill evermore a&s;&s;aults more the true Church, the true Doctrine, and true Di&s;cipline, then the corrupted Church, her cor|rupted Doctrine or Di&s;cipline,</HI> a far better &s;anctuary for your Churches
<PB N="109" REF="61">again&s;t tho&s;e Popi&s;h calumnies you &s;peak of, then a corre&s;pondence with them, <HI>to keep you in unity and conformity?</HI> But this Rea&s;on we have an&s;wered formerly.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 19. rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>Your nineteenth Rea&s;on, is very conci&s;e. In this you only &s;ay, that <HI>of &s;uch a Toleration follows all you formerly deduced out of Independen|cie.</HI> And &s;o it may without putting the world to much damage, or &s;orrow. When we ca&s;t up your <HI>deductions</HI> of inconveniencies <HI>out of In|dependency,</HI> wee found them counterballanced to the height with the exits from Presbyterie. If you poy&s;e your wallet well, you will the end that hangs at your back the heavier. But for an&s;wer to this Rea&s;on, I refer the Reader to the former Chapter.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His 20. rea&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>His twentieth Rea&s;on, is &s;omewhat of a differing &s;train from the re&s;t. The ground and bottome of it &s;eems to be, a de&s;ire of a plau&s;ible in&s;inuation with the A&s;&s;embly, under a pretence of jealou&s;ie over them, le&s;t they &s;hould &s;uffer in point of honour, in ca&s;e his Brethren &s;hould obtain a Toleration. But fir&s;t, good <HI>A. S.</HI> why mu&s;t it needs be thought, in ca&s;e <HI>it &s;hould be granted</HI> unto them, <HI>that it was extorted by force of Rea&s;on,</HI> or <HI>that all the A&s;&s;embly were not able to an&s;wer your Brethren?</HI> This &s;ugge&s;tion &s;mels of wor&s;e blood about the heart, then all the Rea&s;ons hitherto; Fearing (it &s;eems) that all ingagements up|on the A&s;&s;embly in point of con&s;cience to deny the Apologi&s;ts a Tole|ration, might fail, and prove ineffectuall that way; hee &s;eeks here to ingage them in point of honour, by way of re&s;erve; telling them (in effect) that how&s;oever their con&s;ciences might favour the Inde|pendenters in point of Toleration, yet their credits and reputations would &s;uffer by it. Yet let the &s;ugge&s;tion be but a little look'd into, and it will be found to reflect no great matter of grace or commenda|tion upon the A&s;&s;embly it &s;elf. For if no favour or courte&s;ie can be <HI>thought</HI> to come from them, but that which is <HI>extorted by rea&s;on,</HI> and the deniall whereof they <HI>cannot an&s;wer,</HI> it is a &s;ign that they are not, <GAP DESC="foreign">, <HI>i. ea&s;ie to be intreated, full of mer|cy and good fruits,</HI> which yet the Holy Gho&s;t makes the &s;tanding cha|racters of <HI>that wi&s;dome which is from above.</HI><NOTE PLACE="marg">James 3.17.</NOTE></P>
<P>Whereas hee adds, <HI>that their opinion and demands are again&s;t all rea|&s;on,</HI> and that <HI>&s;undry of them could not deny</HI> as much, <HI>and had nothing to &s;ay, but that it was Gods Ordinance.</HI> Wee an&s;wer, fir&s;t, that what <HI>A. S.</HI> his &s;tandart is, whereby he mea&s;ures <HI>Rea&s;on,</HI> we are not &s;o well acquainted with him, as to know, but according to ours, this a&s;&s;ertion of his opens &s;even times wider <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> then either the <HI>opi|nion</HI> or <HI>demands</HI> of his Antagoni&s;ts. Fir&s;t, for their opinion, we be|lieve
<PB N="110" REF="62">that &s;omewhat more then non-&s;en&s;e or irrationalities, hath been argued by them&s;elves in the A&s;&s;embly for it: Is it like, <HI>that very learned men, and of abilities to di&s;pute their opinion in any A&s;&s;embly in Europe</HI> (which are <HI>A. S.</HI> own letters of recommendation on their behalf) &s;hould ri&s;e up to defend an opinion that is contrary <HI>to all rea&s;on?</HI> And &s;omewhat like unto rea&s;on (at lea&s;t &s;o called, among&s;t our vulgar ap|prehen&s;ions) hath been &s;aid for it in the preceding part of this Di&s;|cour&s;e. And &s;econdly, for their Demands; though <HI>A. S.</HI> doth not in|form us what they are, or wherein that fiery conte&s;tation <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> which he findes in them, con&s;i&s;ts, yet we &s;uppo&s;e, he means their <HI>&s;uing for a Toleration,</HI> that high mi&s;demeanor, for which he hath judged them now the&s;e ten times. Was it, or is it, or would it be <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> for the poor Prote&s;tant Churches in <HI>France,</HI> to &s;ue for a <HI>Toleration</HI> in the &s;tate, if it were not granted unto them without &s;uing? Or is it not much more agreeable <HI>to rea&s;on,</HI> that Prote&s;tant Churches &s;hould be <HI>tolerated</HI> in a Prote&s;tant State, then in a State Pontificiall; e&s;pecially in &s;uch a Prote&s;tant State, of which they have &s;o eminently de&s;erved, as the Apologi&s;ts and their Churches, and men of their judgement have done of this, as was briefly touched in the beginning of this Chap|ter? Or is it <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> that tho&s;e per&s;ons in the <HI>Low-countreys,</HI> between who&s;e judgements there is that known variety of differences in matters of Religion, and which concern the wor&s;hip of God, be|ing not able &s;o well to accommodate them&s;elves for livelihood and &s;ub&s;i&s;tence in any other State, with the freedome of their con&s;ciences &s;hould de&s;ire a <HI>Toleration</HI> in that? Suppo&s;e tho&s;e men of your judge|ment, of whom you &s;peak, <HI>pag.</HI> 10. who were (as you there &s;ay) <HI>condem|ned to death for their Di&s;cipline, ready to be executed, and were afterwards exiled into forrain countryes;</HI> Suppo&s;e (I &s;ay) the&s;e men had de&s;ired a <HI>Toleration</HI> in their own countrey, of tho&s;e who thus unrea&s;onably dealt with them, had they violated all Rules and Principles of <HI>Rea&s;on</HI> by &s;uch a de&s;ire? But the truth is, that the a&s;&s;ertion is &s;o notoriou&s;ly <HI>again&s;t all rea&s;on,</HI> that it is &s;carce con&s;i&s;tent with rea&s;on to be&s;tow &s;o much pen in an&s;wer to it. There is but one only &s;uppo&s;ition to make either rea&s;on or truth of it; if it be granted, it may pa&s;&s;e for both. If the de&s;ires of &s;ome Presbyterians be <HI>All Rea&s;on,</HI> and nothing rea|&s;on but they, then both the Opinion and Demands of the Apologi&s;ts, mu&s;t be acknowledged to be again&s;t all Rea&s;on. But otherwi&s;e I know no principle or rule of rea&s;on at all &s;o much as di&s;courte&s;ied by either.</P>
<P>Secondly, whereas you &s;ay, that <HI>&s;undry of them&s;elves could not deny it,
<PB N="111" REF="62">and had nothing to &s;ay, &amp;c.</HI> Fir&s;t, certain I am, that &s;ome of them have ab&s;olutely denied any &s;uch confe&s;&s;ion. Secondly, the acknowledge|ment it &s;elfe looks no more like any of the re&s;t, then a meer fiction doth the Relator. I beleeve that upon inquirie it will be found a mi&s;|pri&s;ion of truth. For doth it not &s;ound aloud incredibilitie, that men of &s;ufficient <HI>abilities to di&s;pute their opinion in any A&s;&s;embly in Europe,</HI> &s;hould confe&s;&s;e their <HI>Opinion and Demands to be again&s;t all rea&s;on?</HI> But &s;uch &s;tones as the&s;e are fit for <HI>A. S.</HI> his building.</P>
<P>Thirdly, whereas you &s;ay, that they <HI>could never &s;hew</HI> (their opinion) <HI>cut of Gods word;</HI> we an&s;wer, that they have often <HI>&s;hewed it;</HI> but God and men (it &s;eems) are not yet agreed to have it &s;o generally &s;een, as is to be de&s;ired: but our hope is, that the agreement will be concluded between them in due time.</P>
<P>Fourthly and la&s;tly, you conclude this rea&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">, with this underta|king, that <HI>if it</HI> (your brethrens opinion we &s;uppo&s;e you mean, though it's hard both here and in twenty places more, to know your meaning clearly) <HI>be refu&s;ed, it will help to confirm the Churches, and the people in truth.</HI> We de&s;ire to know <HI>in truth</HI> of what? It will indeed confirme both marvellou&s;ly, in the truth of Presbyterian fa&s;tne&s;&s;e to their owne cau&s;e; but in what other truth it &s;hould confirm either the one or the other, we wait for our intelligence from you to know.</P>
<P><NOTE PLACE="marg">His la&s;t Rea|&s;on an&s;wered.</NOTE>Your 21. and la&s;t rea&s;on (&s;ave onely tho&s;e which you &s;ay you <HI>omit</HI>) is but a &s;lip of your ninteenth, being &s;omwhat that follows our of In|dependencie. But here you tell us, that the <HI>Government &s;o called, cannot but overthrow all &s;ort of Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Government. Is</HI> Saul <HI>al&s;o among the Prophets? Haec verba loquentis ab<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ore, Gaudens arripio, &amp; &s;t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">factus Namine, adoro.</HI> I joy over the&s;e words, and reverence then &s;omwhat I conceive to be of God in them. Wee know who prophe&s;ied when he was not aware of it. Indeed, by the beauty and perfect con&s;onan|cie of this government with the word of God, it may very rea&s;o|nably (yea and upon higher termes then of rea&s;on) be thought that in time <HI>it cannot but overthrow all &s;ort of Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall government,</HI> and &s;tand up it &s;elfe in their &s;tead. <HI>F<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">xil Deus, &amp; fe&s;tinet.</HI></P>
<P>But that which you adde in the clo&s;e of this Rea&s;on, plainly &s;hew|eth, that you had no mind to prophe&s;ie, though God had, or might have b<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> y<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">u: for here you &s;ay, <HI>that this order, by nece&s;&s;ary con&s;equence, will bread all &s;ort of di&s;order.</HI> No, fir&s;t, it will not breed the di&s;order of oppre&s;&s;ing con&s;cientious men for con&s;cience &s;ake: nor &s;econdly, of di&s;couraging men from &s;ea<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ching the Scriptures more narrowly; not thirdly, of having recour&s;e unto the word for the &s;etting up of the go|vernment
<PB N="112" REF="63">of Chri&s;ts Kingdome; nor fourthly, of making men walk &s;undry miles for what they might have upon as good or better termes at home, be&s;ides a thou&s;and other <HI>di&s;orders,</HI> which the <HI>order</HI> of your In|dependencie will never breed by any con&s;equence at all, <HI>nece&s;&s;ary</HI> or <HI>unnece&s;&s;ary,</HI> being of a very &s;overaign importance to prevent them. And for your premi&s;&s;es (in the body of your Rea&s;on) by which you would fain make the match, between the <HI>order</HI> of Independencie, <HI>and all &s;ort of di&s;order,</HI> they are but fal&s;e brokers. The Independent Churches (as you call them) <HI>have no &s;uch cu&s;tome,</HI> as for one to give entertainment or admi&s;&s;ion to any per&s;on, that hath been <HI>cen&s;ured by another,</HI> without the cen&s;ure fir&s;t relaxed by that Church which inflicted it, or without the con&s;ent of this Church. This is their reproach, not their practice.</P>
<P>And thus we &s;ee that among&s;t <HI>A. S.</HI> his 21. <HI>Rea&s;ons,</HI> there is not one that will &s;tand by their Ma&s;ter, when they are but a little put to it; there is none of them but with a little per&s;wa&s;ion and debate, will wil|lingly enough con&s;ent to a <HI>Toleration</HI> for the <HI>Apologi&s;ts.</HI> If the Di&s;pu|tant him&s;elfe, with his party, were but as tractable as his rea&s;ons, there need no more words be made about the bu&s;ine&s;&s;e.</P>
<P>As for his after-birth of Rea&s;ons, (p. 65.) &s;ince he profe&s;&s;eth him|&s;elfe that he <HI>omits them,</HI> we &s;hall comport with him herein, and <HI>omit</HI> them al&s;o; I hope he will think him&s;elfe a debtor to us for this com|pliance. It &s;eems that him&s;elfe placeth no great confidence in them, in that hee mentions them as if hee mentioned them not, and thought them not worthy to be numbred among&s;t his fir&s;t-born. His <HI>Hor&s;emen</HI> (you &s;ee) have been overcome, and yeelded them&s;elves: his <HI>Infantery</HI> knows the manner of the field, and will, no que&s;tion, &s;urrender with|out incounter. Nor is there any thing for weight or &s;ub&s;tance in this <HI>Tail</HI> of Rea&s;ons, but what hath been broken already in the <HI>Head.</HI></P>
<TRAILER>FINIS.</TRAILER>
</DIV2>
</DIV1>
</BODY>
</TEXT>
</EEBO>
</ETS>
