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<NAME>Alexis Jakobson</NAME>
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<DIV1 TYPE="dedication">
<PB REF="1">
<PB REF="1">
<HEAD>TO THE RIGHT HONOVRABLE THOMAS ADAMS Lord Major of the Metropolis of <HI>Eng|land,</HI> the renowned Citie of LONDON.</HEAD>
<OPENER><SALUTE>Right Honourable,</SALUTE></OPENER>
<P>_THe concurrent de&s;ires of people of all &s;orts, (ex|cept of &s;uch as rai&s;e their owne particular in|tere&s;ts out of the common ruines) for recovery of our peace, and the pantings of many lying under the power of the oppre&s;&s;our for delive|rance from warre, have of late by the good hand of God upon our publique coun&s;els and forces, thriven up to hopes, and tho&s;e hopes to pre&s;ages, that it will be an Honourable note upon your Name in time to come, to have had the good hap within your <HI>view</HI> (before you give up to another the En&s;ignes of your Honour) which is the generall <HI>vote</HI> of all the true hearted Patriots of three Kingdomes, that is a well com|pounded, and compacted happine&s;&s;e, made up of three of the mo&s;t de|&s;irable ble&s;&s;ings of humane &s;ociety, which are con&s;i&s;tent with the con|dition of mortalitie; and they are the&s;e,</P>
<P N="1"><HI>1.</HI> A &s;incere and through reformation of Religion, in Doctrine and wor&s;hip of God.</P>
<P N="2"><HI>2.</HI> A Di&s;cipline and Government <HI>e&s;tabli&s;hed according to
<PB REF="2">Gods word, and the example of the be&s;t reformed Churches:</HI> whereby, with the a&s;&s;i&s;tance of Divine grace, we may be better (then heretofore) &s;ecured from relap&s;es into irreligion, here&s;ie, &s;chi&s;me, and profanene&s;&s;e, which have beene the great crimes and cur&s;es of the la&s;t precedent, and pre&s;ent times, though (through the cunning workings of Satan) the evils now in cour&s;e (with &s;ome degrees of improve|ment from bad to wor&s;e) are taken by &s;ome to be the remedies again&s;t foregoing corruptions.</P>
<P N="3"><HI>3.</HI> A third thing (which in order of dignitie is the la&s;t, though in mo&s;t mens affections it be the fir&s;t) is, that according to the pre&s;cript prayer of the Apo&s;tle, <HI>we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, 1</HI> Tim. <HI><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">.1.</HI> he addeth <HI>in all godline&s;&s;e and hone&s;tie;</HI> but both the&s;e have beene virtually premi&s;ed in the two precedent particulars. This will be of &s;o much the &s;weeter ta&s;t to all, as either by actuall &s;uffering, or by affectionate &s;ympathy they have taken the deeper draught of the bitter cup of furious ho&s;tility.</P>
<P>That none of this hopefull expectation may faile of effect, it will be requi&s;ite that every one (for his part and to his power) endeavour to make it good by all the good meanes, and helps, which conduce to the comfort and &s;afetie not of a few, but of the whole Common weale, in each of the Nations now &s;o much &s;haken, and in danger al&s;o to be bro|ken in pieces.</P>
<P N="1"><HI>1.</HI> By making an holy Covenant with God, and by being <HI>&s;tedfa&s;t in the Covenant</HI> when we have made it; &s;o we may engage his fa|vour, and power to our partie, to be not onely a friend, and Patron to us, but <HI>an enemie to our enemies, and an adver&s;arie to our ad|ver&s;aries,</HI> Exod. <HI>23.22.</HI></P>
<P N="2"><HI>2.</HI> By being at union among our &s;elves, and &s;tudying as much to uphold it, as the &s;editious <HI>Shebaes</HI> on the other &s;ide plot the &s;etting of di&s;cord betwixt the deare&s;t brethren; and if it be not to be looked for, that all, who are equally concerned in the &s;ame Cau&s;e, &s;hould unani|mou&s;ly con&s;ent in that cour&s;e which may carry it on to de&s;ired &s;ucce&s;&s;e; yet there may be a fivefold union among us, which may give &s;trength unto, and maintaine the reputation of the great De&s;igne it hand, <HI>viz. a through reformation both in Church and State.</HI></P>
<P>The fir&s;t union is of the two Si&s;ter Nations, according to our &s;o|lemne League and Covenant, which mu&s;t be preferred before all either factions, or que&s;tuo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">s intere&s;ts of any particular party what&s;oever.</P>
<P><PB REF="2">For <HI>as no two Nations</HI> under heaven have more and &s;tronger bonds of union, then we of <HI>England,</HI> and our Brethren of <HI>Scotland,</HI> being bounded, and &s;urrounded by the Sea, as one entire Iland, united under one King, under one Title in the Kings Royall &s;tyle <HI>[the King of Great BRITAINE]</HI> united yet more in Language, and Reli|gion and mo&s;t of all in our late Covenant for a generall Reformation of Church and State, and mutuall a&s;&s;ociation and a&s;&s;i&s;tance again&s;t all malignant combinations; <HI>So nothing is</HI> more enviou&s;ly ob&s;erved by our common enemies then the&s;e many obligations of union betwixt us, nothing more cunningly contrived, or more &s;eriou&s;ly pur&s;ued by them, (and I wi&s;h &s;ome among our &s;elves had neither hearts, nor heads, nor hands in the plot) then to di&s;-joyne us, and to make us, not onely perfidiou&s;ly to fall off from performance of our common Covenant, but with the &s;ame hands which we have <HI>lifted up to the mo&s;t High God,</HI> to fall one upon another, as the confounded and accur&s;ed <HI>Midianites, Iudg. 7.2<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">.</HI> and when by &s;uch wickedne&s;&s;e we are brought to a weak|ne&s;&s;e, which may be ea&s;ily &s;ubdued (but God forbid, we &s;hould be both &s;o bad, and mad as to act a Tragedie upon our &s;elves, to &s;et forth a Comedie for &s;uch malicious &s;pectators, as would make their great|e&s;t mirth of our mo&s;t grievous mi&s;ery) we mu&s;t expect the execution of the bloody and de&s;tructive de&s;igne, re&s;olved on in <HI>Ireland:</HI> which a knowing Intelligencer hath reported of the rebels there in the&s;e words:
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">The Iri&s;h Remon&s;trance. p. 31.</NOTE> <HI>This Kingdome,</HI> viz. Ireland, <HI>&s;ettled and peopled onely with &s;ound Catholicks, thirty thou&s;and men mu&s;t be &s;ent into England to joyne with th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">rench and Spani&s;h forces; and the &s;ervice in England perfor<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">, then they will joyntly fall upon Scotland for the reducing of that Kingdome to the obedience of the Pope, which being fini&s;hed they have engaged them&s;elves for the King of Spaine, for a&s;&s;i&s;ting him again&s;t the Hollanders.</HI> Wherein, <HI>though they reckon without the Lord of Ho&s;ts,</HI> who onely commands both Peace and Warre at his plea&s;ure, and &s;wayeth the &s;ucce&s;&s;e to which &s;ide he will, <HI>yet</HI> this di&s;covers their de&s;igne of unpartiall perdition of the Prote&s;tant partie; and the di&s;covery thereof &s;hould be a motive of more confirmed union among our &s;elves.</P>
<P>The &s;econd &V;nion is that of the Parliament and Citie; whereof we have had &s;uch happy experience, ever &s;ince the unhappy ho&s;tility betwixt the flatterers of the King, and friends of the Kingdome, that
<PB REF="3">we are bound to ble&s;&s;e God for it, and to pray for the continuance of it, both for our owne time, and for the ages to come.</P>
<P>The third is the &V;nion of the Parliament and A&s;&s;embly of Di|vines; who&s;e recipr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">call, and proportionable re&s;pects, (which I mean not in an <HI>Arithmeticall,</HI> but in a <HI>Geometricall</HI> Proportion) give much countenance and authoritie to what is propounded to the people in their names; for &s;o the command of the one will be more awfull, the advice, direction, and re&s;olution of the other more u&s;efull, throughout the whole Kingdome.</P>
<P>A fourth &V;nion is betwixt the A&s;&s;embly of Divines and the City Mini&s;ters; who may the more ea&s;ily accord and agree together, be|cau&s;e many of them be but the &s;ame men under &s;everall relations; and mo&s;t of them are &s;waid by the &s;ame principles of truth and pietie, and involved in a &s;ociety and participation of the &s;ame duties, hopes, and hazards.</P>
<P>The fifth &V;nion is betwixt the City Magi&s;tracie and the Citie Mini&s;tery, to which both ingenuous, and religious corre&s;pondence doth di&s;po&s;e them; for no where in the Prote&s;tant Churches (&s;o farre as I have read or received by report) are good Mini&s;ters better ac|cepted of, or more re&s;pectively u&s;ed, then in this City, nor by any Citizens more then by tho&s;e who are mo&s;t worthy of honour; and is cannot but be the de&s;ire, as well as the duty, of godly Mini&s;ters, to ad|vance them as much as may be in the e&s;timation of the people; and to pre&s;&s;e upon them obedience according to their duty, and dependence, for con&s;cience &s;ake.</P>
<P>And though it be obvious to common ob&s;ervation, how much the Magi&s;trates favour maketh for the Mini&s;ters honour, and &s;uccour, it is not unknowne, nor unob&s;erved by the wi&s;e, that the Mini&s;ters have been very &s;erviceable to the Civill State, and to the Military too, <HI>not onely by their &s;upplications</HI> to God, for good &s;ucce&s;&s;e to all their publique undertakings, and their happy proceedings in all their warlike marches, and motions, as at the removall of the Arke. <HI>Numb. 10.35. Ri&s;e up Lord, and let thine enemies be &s;cattered, let them that hate thee flee before thee; but by their informations,</HI> and &s;o|li<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">itations of the people, to engage both their e&s;tates, and per&s;ons, in the Cau&s;e of God, and their Countrey: and I could name &s;uch at have b<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="3 letters"> looked on by the blood &s;h<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">tten <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">yes of profe&s;&s;ed enemies, and
<PB REF="3">fained by them (by way of mo&s;t hatefull repr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ach) at the Authours of the Rebellion of whole Counties, that is, (in the true &s;en&s;e of their charge) the per&s;waders of them, not to betake them&s;elves to a divided party, but to unite in the union of the King and Par|liament.</P>
<P>And I am &s;ure that &s;ome of them who have been envied, and revi|led in Print (by libellous Schi&s;maticks) as growing rich upon the re|venues of fat &s;eque&s;trations, (when by a ju&s;t accompt they have come &s;hort of a competent &s;ub&s;i&s;tence) have been offered both riches and ho|nour in the Kings name, by per&s;ons of eminent degree, to <HI>imploy their parts in his Maje&s;ties &s;ervice</HI> (the termes were no wor&s;e, the inten|tion likely not &s;o good) and have mode&s;tly, and yet re&s;olutely refu&s;ed them, then when it &s;eemed both mo&s;t profitable, and honourable to a<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">|cept them, and not a little dangerous to with&s;tand rewards, when there was power to call for ob&s;ervance by minatory commands.</P>
<P>And it was then an advantage vi&s;ible enough, which the King had above the Parliament (as the Pope hath above a Councell) that the di&s;po<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">all of Church dignities was held in right, and exerci&s;ed in fact, as a branch of the Royall Prerogative; whence aro&s;e the Proverbe which made &s;o many Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Courtiers, <HI>No fi&s;hing to the Sea, No &s;ervice to the King;</HI> and by the power and Court Countenance that &s;uch had over the inferior Mini&s;ters, both they by the Prelaticall Clergie, and the people by them were made more ob&s;equious and &s;er|viceable to what&s;oever con&s;titutions, and impo&s;itions, which came upon them, whether from the Civill or Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Authority. And though wee have cau&s;e to multiply our benedictions, as <HI>David</HI> did, <HI>1 Sam. 25.<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">2, 33. Ble&s;&s;ed</HI> be God, and ble&s;&s;ed be the Parliament, and ble&s;&s;ed be their advice, not only to them&s;elves, but to all the Kingdom, that the heavie yoke of the domineering Hi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">rarchy is taken off our neckes, yet betwixt the Magi&s;trates and the people, the godly Mi|ni&s;ters of the Kingdome (and ordinarily the Mini&s;ters of this Citie e&s;pecially (for the Synod of Divines is an extraordinary A&s;&s;embly) will be alwayes as lea&s;t in&s;trumentally profitable for the promoting, and upholding of a conformity and commodious corre&s;pondence on both &s;ides, according to the Relations, wherein for the glory of God, and the publique welfare they are mutually obliged to each other.</P>
<P>In pr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">po&s;all of the&s;e particulars to your Lord&s;hip, I &s;hall not be thought to pre&s;ent you with an impertinent di&s;cour&s;e, by any thus will
<PB REF="4">con&s;ider bow much the union of three Kingdoms depends upon the uni|on of this <HI>Metropolis,</HI> or mother Citie with the Parliament above it, the Mini&s;try within it, and all the &s;i&s;ter Cities, and daughter Townes and Villages round about it; and how much the union of this City now depends upon your Honour, and I doubt not but that by Gods &s;peciall providence your Honour was re&s;erved for &s;uch a time as this, when by a prudent, and zealous, and authoritative endevour for the cure of the manifold di&s;tractions among us, you may be a ble&s;&s;ed meanes to keepe off the de&s;truction from us, which is threatned by our Saviour to a Kingdome, (and there is the like danger to any either City or family) given over to divi&s;ion, <HI>Matth. 12.25.</HI> wherein your Lord&s;hip and your Venerable Colleagues may have the deepe&s;t &s;hare in &s;uffering, accord|ing to the mea&s;ure of your eminent prelations in honour, and e&s;tate, above ordinary Citizens, if (which God forbid) violent and unruly &s;pirits &s;hould not be circum&s;cribed with the virge of your awfull au|thoritie.</P>
<P>To this end though the <HI>Presbyterian Government</HI> may be very &s;ub&s;ervient, and the Mini&s;ters of the City will be alwaies ready, (as their faculties furni&s;h them with abilitie, and their duties oblige them with diligence) to &s;erve your Honour, yet &s;ince <HI>that</HI> is &s;et up but in part, and for a good part &s;ubiect to di&s;pute, (as your power is not, for it is wholly compleat, and no way que&s;tionable) the through refor|mation of this &s;patious and populous Citie, next under God, and the Parliament, will more depend upon your head for coun&s;ell, your heart for affection, and your hand for execution, then on any humane helpe or meanes, what&s;oever it be.</P>
<P>And if in regard of newly emergent mi&s;chiefs, (for Satan infu|&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">th into his Agents new fancies, and devices, and &s;tirreth them up to dangerous Innovations every day) you find not ready remedies for all pre&s;ent, or imminent evils, within the bounds of your municipall Charters, you are &s;o neere the well-head, and &s;pring of Civill Go|vernment (the Legi&s;lative Senate at <HI>We&s;tmin&s;ter</HI>) that you may ea&s;ily, and &s;peedily procure a &s;upplement of power, for any &s;ervice that may conduce to the &s;afety of the Parliament, and Citie, and (with both) by con&s;equentiall operation, and virtuall influence, of many millions of &s;ubiects within the three Kingdomes, united in the mo&s;t Sacred bond of our &s;olemne <HI>Covenant;</HI> which may with more i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ge|nuiti<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> be de&s;ired, and with more facility be obtained, becau&s;e thereby
<PB REF="4">the Parliament it &s;elfe may be the better &s;ecured, both from contemp<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">, and tumult, which may ju&s;tly be feared from &s;uch an in&s;olent, and violent generation of fanaticke, and &s;ome franticke Enthu&s;ia&s;ts, and other fiery &s;pirited Separati&s;ts, who account it the height of their E|vangelicall zeale, to bring downe the highe&s;t and mo&s;t eminent Wor|thies of the State for true piety, prudence, dignitie, and power, under the feet of confu&s;ed Anarchy, and popularity.</P>
<P>Wherein that they meane to make no re&s;erves of reverence for the &s;upreme Senate of the Kingdome, nor to allow any protection by pri|viledges of Parliament, is clearly di&s;covered in that mo&s;t &s;editious Pamphlet (be&s;ides many others) called <HI>Englands Birthright.</HI> For notwith&s;tanding the pre&s;ent, pre&s;&s;ing, and imperious nece&s;sities of the Commonweale, requiring the rai&s;ing of &s;upplies in extraordinarie wayes for its owne &s;upport, and pre&s;ervation from perpetuall ruine, and notwith&s;tanding the exemplarie ju&s;tice of the Parliament, upon their owne members of both Hou&s;es, (to which may be added to their glory, and the Kingdomes comfort, their mo&s;t ju&s;t and impartiall provi&s;ion again&s;t oppre&s;sion of the people, either by them&s;elves, or their &s;ub&s;tituted Committees) the Libellous (and in re&s;pect of &s;ome pa&s;&s;ages of his Booke, I may &s;ay bla&s;phemous) Authour, taking no notice of any thing that may be ju&s;tly pleaded for the proceedings of Parliament, labours to repre&s;ent them to the people as a combination of mo&s;t grievous, and <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ngratefull oppre&s;&s;ours.</P>
<P>I will &s;et downe his owne words, but &s;o as the Scripture doth the bla&s;phemies of Satan, or <HI>Rab&s;hakeh,</HI> and other &s;uch like
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">The word cometh of <HI>Sa|raph,</HI> which &s;ig|nifieth <HI>to burne,</HI> and of that is derived the noune <HI>Saraph,</HI> (with the one|ly difference of a long vowell for a &s;hort) which is u&s;ed for a <HI>fiery &s;er|pent,</HI> I&s;a. 14.29.</NOTE> <HI>S<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">raphicall</HI> &s;landerers, that they may be as odious, as their di&s;po&s;ition is dangerous to all good men, if they had as much power in their hands, as there is gall in their hearts, their tongues, and pens; the Title of this out-la&s;h|ing Libell is &s;et downe in the&s;e words.</P>
<P><NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">For an Anti|dote again&s;t &s;uch calumnies &s;ee M. <HI>Prinnes</HI> Booke entitled <HI>The Lyar con|founded.</HI></NOTE> <HI>Englands birthright ju&s;tified again&s;t all arbitrary u&s;urpation, whether Regall or Parliamentary, or under what vizor &s;o ever. With divers Queries, Ob&s;ervances, and Grievances of the people, declaring this Parliaments proceedings to be directly contrary to tho&s;e fundamentall Principles, whereby their Actions at fa&s;t were ju&s;tifiable again&s;t the King, in their pre&s;ent Illegall dealings with tho&s;e that have beene their be&s;t Friends, Advancers, and Pre&s;er|vers:
<PB REF="5">And in other things of high concernment, to the Freedome of all the Free-borne people of England.</HI></P>
<P>What ever the man is, the B<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">ke is no hypocrite, for it i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="3 letters"> within, which it &s;eemeth without. For page the <HI>33.</HI> he putteth this Qu<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">re (and his Queres are implicit re&s;olutions on the wrong &s;ide.) <HI>Whether is it not agreeable to law, ju&s;tice, equitie, and con&s;cience, that there &s;hould be a Parliament once every yeare, and more of|ten if need require?</HI> whereby he meaneth that this Parliament hath &s;ate too long already, for a little after he chargeth them, that <HI>many of the Members have betrayed their tru&s;t, and tho&s;e that remaine ingro&s;&s;e Law-making, and al&s;o Law-executing into their owne hands, contrary both to rea&s;on and to the true intent and meaning of the Law;</HI> and within a few lines, he goeth on thus: <HI>By which manife&s;t abu&s;ing, negligent, and not true u&s;ing the Lawes, oppre&s;|&s;ions, mi&s;chiefe<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">, and grievances are no le&s;&s;e (if not farre more) increa&s;ed then they were before the Parliament began; and many times by the powerfull Intere&s;t of a faction in the Parliament, to &s;ave &s;ome one, two, or three of their Members unde&s;erving cre|dits, they &s;o violate the knowne, unrepealed, and declared Law of the Land, yea and their owne Votes, Ordinances, Declarations, and Prote&s;tations, as if they had never made them; I &s;ay all the&s;e things con&s;idered, ought not the Freemen of England, who have laboured in the&s;e de&s;troying times, both to pre&s;erve the Parlia|ment, and their owne Native freedomes, and birth-rights, not one|ly to choo&s;e new Members, where they are wanting, once every yeare, but al&s;o to renue and enquire once a yeare, after the beha|viour, and carriage of tho&s;e they have cho&s;en.</HI></P>
<P>And having page <HI>44.</HI> aggra<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="3 letters">ed the condition of the times by taxes and impo&s;itions, in&s;tancing in the Trade of Ha<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">makers, he con|cludes with this enclamation (which may &s;erve for an incentive to &s;editions tumult) <HI>O <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ruell, pitifull, and intolerable bondage, no longer to be endured, &s;uffered, or undergone, the burden being heavier then the poore labourers can beare!</HI></P>
<P>And that we may know of how lawle&s;&s;e a Sect him&s;elf in, and tho&s;e whom <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">e plead<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> for, he pr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">fe&s;&s;eth him&s;elfe a litter enemy to Lawyers, fir&s;t <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> the writer of a loo&s;e &s;heete of paper, under the Title
<PB REF="5">of <HI>Adverti&s;ements for the new election of Burge&s;&s;es for the Hou&s;e of Commons</HI> (by the name of a worthy Authour) as a Caveat again&s;t filling up elections with &s;uch kind of men, making <HI>the knowledge of the Law of nou&s;e for making of a State&s;man, &s;ince it is,</HI> &s;aith he, <HI>a confined and Topicall kind of learning, calculated onely for the Meridian of We&s;tmin&s;ter Hall, and reaching no fur|then then to Dover; for tran&s;plant a common Lawyer to Calice, and his head is no more u&s;efull there, then a Sunne-Diall in a grave.</HI> Whereas it is notorious to the world that &s;undry
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">As the <HI>L. Ver.</HI> M. <HI>I. Seld. Will. Pr.</HI> (and &s;ome others) who&s;e excellently learned labo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> prai&s;e them i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> the gates.</NOTE> profe&s;&s;ed Legi&s;ts have been qualified with other learning, and that both with great va|riety, and in an eminent degree, above other men.</P>
<P>Having impeached their heads, he cometh downe to their hearts, and hands, and taxeth the&s;e for ill con&s;cience, as the other for igno|rance. <HI>Lawyers</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>being a bold, and talkative kind of men, will intrude them&s;elves into the Chaires of all Committees, where (being accu&s;tomed to take fees) they will underhand pro|tect Delinquents, and their concealed e&s;tates with tricks and de|vi&s;es.</HI> He knoweth &s;ure very little of the manner of Committees; for no man can thru&s;t him&s;elfe into &s;uch an employment, but is thru&s;t into it by the major part of the Committee; but there needs none A|pologie, where the Antilogie is none other then a mo&s;t ra&s;h and un|rea&s;onable calumny; and my pre&s;ent purpo&s;e is but to note how head|&s;trong and unruly, how refractory to Government, and Law, the Sectaries are already; to what an height of in&s;olence would they grow, if (which they pre&s;&s;e for) they &s;hould be permitted a toleration by publique Authoritie? It may be &s;ome among them in time would take upon them as the proud and rude Rebell <HI>Wat Tyler,</HI> in <HI>Richard</HI> the Seconds time, who pre&s;umed, among other mo&s;t lewd and impudent demand<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">, to
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>S. Daniel</HI> continuation of the Hi&s;tory <HI>ad Rich.K</HI> 2. p. 5.</NOTE> propound this for one, <HI>That all Law might be abo|li&s;hed, affirming with an execrable oath, before Night all the Law of England &s;hould pa&s;&s;e through this &s;trait, (clapping his hand upon his mouth.)</HI></P>
<P>But I mu&s;t take my hand from this Table, le&s;t I tre&s;pa&s;&s;e again&s;t the publique Intere&s;t, in detaining your Honour too long in beholding this Sciographie or &s;hadow-draught of pernicious Sectaries, &s;ixce it is a time rather of action, then of &s;peculation; and yet if your Honour have any &s;pare houres for further information in the various, and dangerous turnings, and windings of the &s;pirits of Errour, (whom
<PB REF="6">Satan in the&s;e la&s;t and wor&s;t times hath &s;ent out, not by couples, as our Saviour &s;ent out his Di&s;ciples, <HI>Mar. 6.7.</HI> but almo&s;t by Legions, to &s;educe &s;imple &s;oules, to trouble our publique peace, and to reproach and retard the reformation de&s;ired) I &s;hould make bold to offer to your view an
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>M. Robert Baylie</HI> his <HI>Di&s;|&s;wa&s;ive</HI> from the errours of the time; wherein the Tenets of the principall Sect of the Inde|pend: are drawne toge|ther in one Mappe: Printed for <HI>Sam. Gelli|brand</HI> at the Bra&s;en Serpent in <HI>Pauls</HI> Church-yard.</NOTE> exact delineation, or de&s;cription of the whole body of Schi&s;maticall, and Hereticall noveltie, drawne by a very skilfull and faithfull hand, and newly publi&s;hed to undeceive the <HI>Engli&s;h,</HI> espe|cially the people of the City, of whom many are mi&s;erably mi&s;led, and more will be, if both Magi&s;trates and Mini&s;ters doe not watch|fully overlooke them, and &s;eriou&s;ly &s;ot them&s;elves to prevent their in|crea&s;e: <HI>Wherein</HI> your Lord&s;hips prudence, and power, (beginning betime, and continuing your care in a proportionable tenour, untill your Office expire, (which is the expectation of all that know the &s;oli|ditie of your judgement, and &s;tability of your &s;pirit) may prevaile very much, though it be but for an yeare; for how great matters in how &s;hort a time have beene attempted and accompli&s;hed by that wor|thy Generall <HI>S^r. Thomas Fairfax,</HI> undertaking, and pro&s;ecuting the warre (with a couragious and con&s;tant re&s;olution) not as a Trade to enrich him&s;elfe, but as a Remedy to deliver his Countrey, from partly pre&s;ent, and partly imminent mi&s;eries?</P>
<P>And for that purpo&s;e your Lord&s;hips Sword in the City may be of very great u&s;e, as his in the field; and that with both <HI>the Sword of the Lord</HI> may be a&s;&s;ociated, as with <HI>the Sword of Gideon,</HI> Iudg. <HI>7.18.</HI> and his power may &s;till &s;upport your &s;tate, protect your per&s;on, and promote your proceedings to mo&s;t happy &s;ucce&s;&s;e, is the hearty de|&s;ire, and &s;hall be the daily prayer of</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>Your Honours mo&s;t humble &s;ervant, JOHN LEY.</SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="to the reader">
<PB REF="6">
<HEAD>An Adverti&s;ement to the Reader to pre|vent mi&s;taking in the variety of Petitions.</HEAD>
<P>_IN the Po&s;t&s;cript of the late An&s;wer to M^r. <HI>Burton</HI> from <HI>Aldermanbury,</HI> entituled <HI>The doore of truth opened,</HI> there is an Apologe|tical Reply to his tart reproofe of a <HI>London</HI> Petition in the&s;e words: <HI>There is one thing that</HI> M^r. Burton <HI>mentioneth in the</HI>
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Pag. 2. <HI>ante med.</HI></NOTE> Narrative, <HI>which though it concerns not</HI> Aldermanbury, <HI>yet we mu&s;t not wholly bury it in &s;ilence, and that is concerning the</HI> late large Petition for the &s;peedy e&s;tabli&s;hment of Reli|gion: <HI>Of which he &s;peakes very di&s;honourably, as al&s;o of the Petitioners, as of men led with blind obedience, and pinning their &s;oules upon the</HI> Prie&s;ts &s;leeve. <HI>We leave it to the Petitioners to an&s;wer for them&s;elves. For our parts we conceive that no Reader, unle&s;&s;e blinded with prejudice, can charge them with blind obedience. For the Petitioners doe not de&s;ire to have the</HI> Modell <HI>of that Reverend A&s;&s;embly e&s;tabli&s;hed, but the government of Chri&s;t e&s;tabli&s;hed, a Mo|dell whereof, &amp;c. The&s;e words,</HI> a Modell whereof, &amp;c. <HI>come in with a Parenthe&s;is, and the &s;entence is compleat without them, all that they affirme about the Modell is that the</HI> Reverend A&s;&s;embly <HI>hath framed a Modell of the Go|vernment of Chri&s;t according to their ability, and pre&s;ented it to the Parliament. And who but he that hath pinned his faith upon an Independents &s;leeve, can except again&s;t this? But if</HI> M^r. Burton <HI>be di&s;plea&s;ed with the Modell of the Re|verend A&s;&s;embly, we would intreat him that he at la&s;t, af|ter &s;o long expectation, would &s;et forth his</HI> Modell.</P>
<P>Which &s;ome have mi&s;taken, conceiving both parties
<PB REF="7">&s;peake of the late Petition &s;ent from the Common Councell of <HI>London,</HI> whereas there be the&s;e differen|ces betwixt them.</P>
<P N="1">1. That Petition is of a different &s;tyle, tenour, and date from this of the Common Councell, for it was brought forth to light before this later was concei|ved.</P>
<P N="2">2. That hath the Parenthe&s;is <HI>(a Modell whereof the A&s;&s;embly of Divines, &amp;c.)</HI> &s;pecified in the Exception and An&s;wer; the Petition of the Common Councell hath no &s;uch clau&s;e in it, as I am informed, for yet I have not &s;een it.</P>
<P N="3">3. That was never pre&s;ented by the Petitioners to the Parliament, this of the Common Councell was.</P>
<P N="4">4. The Petition of the Common Councell was not printed, that was priuted, both in a &s;ingle &s;heet, and in the Booke called <HI>Truth it's Manife&s;t,</HI> p. 130. Which I note in this place, becau&s;e having denyed that the Pe|tition of the Common Councell was yet printed, a Gentleman of qualitie &s;aid, he would &s;hew it me pre|&s;ently, and produced for proofe the Booke foremen|tioned.</P>
<P N="5">5. La&s;tly, the former Petition had not &s;o good ac|ceptance with the Parliament, as the later partly hath had, and partly may be further hoped for, when the Honourable Hou&s;es have opportunitie to make their returne unto it.</P>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="table of contents">
<PB REF="7">
<HEAD>The Contents.</HEAD>
<LIST>
<ITEM><LABEL>Section I.</LABEL> OF the <HI>Authour</HI> and Title page of the <HI>Quere, and Deter mination</HI> upon it. <HI>Page 1.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. II.</LABEL> Of the Title page. <HI>p. 3.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. III.</LABEL> The matter and &s;cope of the Quere, and re&s;olution upon it. <HI>p. 7.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. IIII.</LABEL> Rea&s;ons again&s;t the pre&s;ent &s;ettling of government taken from con&s;cience, an&s;wered. <HI>p. 12.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. V.</LABEL> The Argument again&s;t the &s;peedy &s;ettling of Church government taken from e<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">|ample of the New Te&s;tament in generall, an&s;wered. <HI>p. 14.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. VI.</LABEL> The Argument again&s;t the &s;peedy e&s;tabli&s;hment of Church government taken from Chri&s;ts de&s;cription, an&s;wered. <HI>p. 17.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. VII.</LABEL> Ma&s;ter <HI>Colemans</HI> experimentall exceptions again&s;t the &s;everity and rigour of the Presbyteriall government, an&s;wered. <HI>p. 20.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. VIII.</LABEL> The Argument again&s;t the &s;peedy &s;etting up of the Presbyteriall government taken from Chri&s;ts practi&s;e, an&s;wered. <HI>p. 23.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. IX.</LABEL> Rea&s;ons taken from rules and con&s;iderations of prudence, an&s;wered. <HI>p. 26.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. X.</LABEL> The Negative Argument taken from want of experience of the New Clergie, an&s;wered. <HI>p. 32.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XI.</LABEL> Objections again&s;t the Rea&s;ons for the not e&s;tabli&s;hing Church government, prope|&s;ed, and an&s;wered, as Objections again&s;t M. <HI>Saltm.</HI> his Tenet in the Quere, with Replyes to his an&s;wers. The fir&s;t Ob&s;ervation, his An&s;wer and the Reply unto it. <HI>p. 36.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XII.</LABEL> Objection &s;econd, an&s;wered; with a Reply to that An&s;wer. <HI>p. 38.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XIII.</LABEL> An additionall An&s;wer to &s;ome exceptions of M. <HI>Saltm.</HI> (taken out of M. <HI>Prins Vindication</HI>) again&s;t the pre&s;ent e&s;tabli&s;hment of Church government, in his late Book entituled, <HI>The opening of M. Prins New Book called a Vindication. p. 45.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XIIII.</LABEL> The Objections taken from a &s;uppo&s;ed needle&s;ne&s;&s;e of the Presbytery, an&s;wered. <HI>p. 47</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XV.</LABEL> Of <HI>M. Colemans</HI> Interi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">i&s;t is all Magi&s;tracle. <HI>p. 51.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XVI.</LABEL> The Objection of eager conte&s;tation for Church Di&s;cipline, and <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 span"> <HI>p. 53.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><PB REF="8"><LABEL>Sect. XVII.</LABEL> The Objection of inefficacie for holine&s;&s;e of life in &s;uch as live under the Presbytery, an&s;wered. <HI>p. 57.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XVIII.</LABEL> Shewing what might be retorted upon the Antipresbyteriall party, but concluding for unitie and peace with allegation of <HI>M. Burroughs</HI> his propo&s;itions of reconciliation and accord: and &s;ome other particulars tending thereto. <HI>p. 61.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XIX.</LABEL> Further grounds and hopes of <HI>union</HI> in the Churches of the Si&s;ter Kingdomes of <HI>England</HI> and <HI>Scotland,</HI> with An&s;wers to the Objections that are made again&s;t it. <HI>p. 64.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XX.</LABEL> An Appendix to the precedent Examination, being an Apologeticall Narrative of the Petitions of the Common Councell of the City, and Mini&s;ters of <HI>London,</HI> pre|&s;ented to both the Honourable Hou&s;es of Parliament the <HI>19.</HI> and <HI>20.</HI> dayes of <HI>No|vember, 1645.</HI> with a Vindication of them, and the proceedings in them from the &s;candalous asper&s;ions of the weekely Pamphleters, especially of him who mi&s;cals him|&s;elfe the <HI>Moderate Intelligencer. p. 71.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XXI.</LABEL> The occa&s;ion of the Petitions of the Common Councell and Mini&s;ters of <HI>London,</HI> and the pre&s;enting of them to the Honourable Hou&s;es of Parliament. <HI>p. 77.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XXII.</LABEL> The offen&s;ive acceptance of them by the Parliament as the weekely Newes-makers fal&s;ly report it: Cautions premi&s;ed before their confutation. <HI>p. 79.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XXIII.</LABEL> A Copy of the Mini&s;ters Petition, and the Intelligencers &s;candalous con&s;ure upon it. <HI>p. 84.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XXIIII.</LABEL> <HI>Britanicus</HI> taxed for traducing the Petitioners. <HI>p. 89.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XXV.</LABEL> An an&s;wer to the <HI>Intelligencers</HI> commination of the Petitioners. <HI>p. 92.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM><LABEL>Sect. XXVI.</LABEL> The mi&s;report of the <HI>Diurnall</HI> and <HI>Weekly Account</HI> confuted, and the loo&s;e &s;heete called <HI>Perfect Pa&s;&s;ages</HI> convinced of ab&s;urditie and &s;edition. <HI>p. 93.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>The Conclu&s;ion. <HI>p. 97.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>The Po&s;t&s;cript, or after reckoning with the <HI>Moderate Intelligencer,</HI> and <HI>Mer|curius Britanicus. p. 99.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="errata">
<HEAD>Errata.</HEAD>
<P><HI>PAge 70. lin. 10. after the word</HI> taken <HI>in the Parenthe&s;is read the words</HI> and indeed it is, <HI>and blot them out in the following line: pag. 84. lin. 2. after the word</HI> tryall, <HI>for</HI> of <HI>read</HI> to: <HI>&amp; lin. 3 after the word</HI> plainly <HI>for</HI> to <HI>read</HI> as: <HI>&amp; p. 97. lin. 20. after the word</HI> lives <HI>read</HI> long: <HI>&amp; lin. 21. for</HI> it was a <HI>read</HI> upon this: <HI>&amp; p. uit. Marg. after the word</HI> called <HI>put out</HI> Lilbi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ues.</P>
</DIV1>
</FRONT>
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="text">
<PB N="1" REF="8">
<HEAD>AN EXAMINATION AND RESOLVTION OF the New <HI>Quere.</HI></HEAD>
<DIV2 N="1" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. I. <HI>Of the</HI> Authour, <HI>and Title page of the</HI> Quere; <HI>and</HI> Determination, <HI>upon it.</HI></HEAD>
<P>_OF the <HI>Authour</HI> I have not much to &s;ay, &s;ave that when he was &s;ent for examination to the <HI>Committee of Divines,</HI> I found him well qualified for parts, and gifts, to be imployed in the Mini&s;tery; and as he was entertained by us with be&s;eeming civility and courte&s;ie, &s;o did he carry him&s;elfe to|wards us with an ingenuous mode&s;ty; and we met, and parted with mutuall accep|tation: After that, he was plea&s;ed to owne me as his <HI>Friend,</HI> and to honour me as his <HI>Cen&s;or,</HI> with a reque&s;t to peru&s;e &s;ome papers of his which he intended to publi&s;h; yet to this day I never &s;aw them, unle&s;&s;e they were graduates from his pen to the pre&s;&s;e; and &s;o I might reade them, and not know them to be the &s;ame: whether he changed his mind concerning his owne paines, or my peru&s;all,
<PB N="2" REF="9">or wanted a convenient opportunity to bring, or &s;end them unto me, I cannot re&s;olve, nor will I conjecture; but I will take his in|vitation of me to play the Critick with him, for &s;ome more autho|rity to examine his divulged dictates, then others have, who have none other intere&s;t in them then that of an ordinary Reader.</P>
<P>Vpon this intercour&s;e betwixt us, having heard adver&s;e opinions, and reports of his impre&s;&s;ion, in the pre&s;ent difference of di&s;cipline, I thought I had acquaintance enough with him, to put a Que&s;tion to him, <HI>Whether he were an Independent or no?</HI> (a Title by &s;ome of our di&s;&s;enting brethren
<NOTE N="a" PLACE="marg">That proud and in&s;olent title of <HI>Inde|pendencie</HI> was affixed unto us, as our claime, the very &s;ound of which con|veighes to all mens appre|hen&s;ions the challenge of an exempti|on from all &s;ubjection and dependence; or rather a Trum|pet of defiance again&s;t what|&s;oever power, &s;pirituall or ci|vill; which we do abhor and dete&s;t. <HI>Apolog. Narrat. p.</HI> 21.</NOTE> abhorred, by others
<NOTE N="b" PLACE="marg">Mr. <HI>Whites</HI> Book which he calls <HI>Truth glo|riou&s;ly appear|ing, &amp;c.</HI> in the Title page and fol. 2. pag. 1. of the Epi&s;tle Dedicatory, and fol. 2. p. 1. of the Epi&s;tle to the Reader.</NOTE> owned, and ho|noured) he told me, <HI>he was not,</HI> but <HI>that he had a latitude of charity for them of that way;</HI> and &s;o have I al&s;o.</P>
<P>Since this an&s;wer, I had &s;ome glymp&s;e of more inclination in him to that &s;ide, then he acknowledged before, by his <HI>Dawnings of light,</HI> which have lately &s;hone forth to a full di&s;covery of his mind, in his booke which he calleth <HI>The opening of Ma&s;ter Prins Vindi|cation;</HI> wherein he hath laid him&s;elfe &s;o open to the view of them that reade it, that none of them can doubt but he is an <HI>Independent</HI> at lea&s;t, and at be&s;t not well affected to the <HI>Di&s;cipline &s;o much de&s;ired,</HI> (as in the fir&s;t page of his <HI>New Quere</HI> he hath phra&s;ed it) for in his Epi&s;tle Dedicatory, to the worthily much honoured <HI>Ma|jor Generall Skippon, he makes the Controver&s;ie of the&s;e times to be but this, that &s;ome would walke more clo&s;e with Chri&s;t, &s;ome can be content like Peter to walke at more di&s;tance, and to follow him afarre off, and to &s;tand warming them&s;elves with the multitude in the Com|mon-hall; and let the world judge betwixt us, which is of be&s;t report.</HI> Who he meanes by &s;uch as <HI>walk clo&s;e with Chri&s;t,</HI> and who by tho&s;e that <HI>walke at more di&s;tance,</HI> we may gather by his an&s;wer to <HI>the Vindication,</HI>
<NOTE N="c" PLACE="marg">Pag. 24. Of <HI>the opening.</HI></NOTE> where he &s;aith, That <HI>our Pari&s;hes are not con&s;tituted, nor yet the government, according to the Go&s;pell order;</HI> which he re|ferres, for their originall, (by way of reproach) to <HI>Diony&s;ius</HI> Bi|&s;hop of <HI>Rome, Anno</HI> 276. and in <HI>England</HI> to <HI>Honorius</HI> Bi&s;hop of <HI>Canterbury,</HI> while he endevours to prove the particular
<NOTE N="d" PLACE="marg"><HI>a. p.</HI> 33. <HI>ad pag.</HI> 37.</NOTE> <HI>gather|ings, and &s;eparations</HI> of Congregationall meetings to be a fruit of <HI>the &s;piritual antipathy betwixt grace &amp; nature, fle&s;h &amp; &s;pirit, and that their pure and unmixt communion is the ordinance of Chri&s;t;</HI> of which (after he hath laid a charge upo~ the Presbyterial Churches) he &s;aith, <HI>As I know not any &s;uch things among them, &s;o I will make none Apo|logie
<PB N="3" REF="9">for them, becau&s;e that would bring them within the compa&s;&s;e of &s;ome thing like a crime, and I know nothing but well by them:</HI> By which comparative cen&s;ure he bewrayeth him&s;elfe to be partiall to one &s;ide, and prejudiciall to the other; and to that I profe&s;&s;e my &s;elfe a <HI>Servant,</HI> whereto he &s;heweth him&s;elfe to be <HI>no friend;</HI> yet in defence thereof, I will not entertaine him as an <HI>enemie;</HI> for my <HI>Genius</HI> hath alwayes been very aver&s;e from jarres, and it is the le&s;&s;e di&s;po&s;ed to quarrel with him, becau&s;e I &s;ee he dealeth not &s;o har&s;h|ly with M^r. <HI>Prin,</HI> as mo&s;t of tho&s;e polemicall Penmen have done, who have written again&s;t him; and to give him his due, in all that I have &s;eene &s;et forth in his name, I find him rather opiniative, than pa&s;&s;ionate, and more luxuriant in new notions of his braine, then ex|orbitant in the pa&s;&s;ions, or perturbations of his &s;pirit.</P>
<P>I premi&s;e thus much, that you may not mi&s;take my mind in my conte&s;tation with him in this cau&s;e, as if I tooke him for <HI>an enemie, becau&s;e he telleth</HI> what he taketh to be <HI>a truth;</HI> for what&s;oever dif|ferent apprehen&s;ions we have in our heads, I wi&s;h wee may have nothing in our hearts, which may tend to effect, or foment any alie|nation of affection betwixt us. For it is my de&s;ire, and &s;hall be al|wayes a part of my care, that while I &s;eek after a <HI>controverted truth,</HI> I may not turne a&s;ide from a <HI>certaine duty;</HI> which is, <HI>in meekne&s;&s;e to deale with a brother that is contrary minded;</HI> &s;o farre as may not prove to the prejudice of what in con&s;cience I am bound to under|take, and to manage al&s;o to the be&s;t advantage. This for the <HI>Author</HI> and for the <HI>Title page</HI> be&s;ides (for the Authors Name is a part of it) it is as followeth.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="2" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. II. <HI>Of the Title Page.</HI></HEAD>
<P>A <HI>New Quere at this time &s;ea&s;onably to be con&s;idered, as we ten|der the advancement of Truth and Peace.</HI></P>
<P>He knew very well how the Athenian humour of li&s;tening after <HI>news</HI> prevaileth with our people of all &s;orts; and therefore being to fi&s;h in troubled waters, he puts upon his hook that bait, at which it was like many would be nibling.</P>
<P>Next he &s;aith, It is <HI>at this time &s;ea&s;onably to be con&s;idered, as we tender the advancement of Truth and Peace.</HI> He commends his
<PB N="4" REF="10">
<HI>New Query</HI> to acceptance in two re&s;pects:
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. As <HI>&s;ea&s;onable.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. As <HI>much importing the advancement of Truth and Peace.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
<P>For the <HI>fir&s;t;</HI> he &s;aith it is <HI>at this time &s;ea&s;onably to be con&s;idered.</HI> So it is, now it is publi&s;hed; but it was very <HI>un&s;ea&s;onably</HI> offered: and I marvell that he, who hath written a whole booke of <HI>policy,</HI> &s;hould be &s;o <HI>unpoliticke</HI> as to thinke it <HI>&s;ea&s;onable,</HI> to &s;et forth &s;uch a <HI>Quere,</HI> and &s;o to re&s;olve it; &s;uch it tends to retard the e&s;tabli&s;h|ment of Government, whereto the Parliament is &s;o much enga|ged, not onely for the thing it &s;elfe, but for a timely propo&s;ition, and impo&s;ition of it by their civill &s;anction.</P>
<P>For the <HI>fir&s;t, that they intend to &s;et up a Church government,</HI> we have it, 1. From their expre&s;&s;e profe&s;&s;ion, <HI>December</HI> 15. 1641. <HI>We doe here declare, that it is farre from our purpo&s;e or de&s;ire to let loo&s;e the golden reines of Di&s;cipline, and Government in the Church, to leave private per&s;ons, or particular Congregations to take up what forme of &s;ervice they plea&s;e; for we hold it requi&s;ite, that there &s;hould be throughout the whole Realme a conformitie in that order, which the Lawes enioyne according to the word of God.</HI> So in the fir&s;t <HI>Re|mon&s;trance</HI> of the Honourable Hou&s;e of Commons. <HI>pag.</HI> 25.</P>
<P N="2">2. from the fir&s;t Article of the <HI>&s;olemne League and Co|venant,</HI> publi&s;hed by Authoritie of Parliament, <HI>September</HI> 21. 1643. Wherein they, and all others that take it, doe covenant <HI>to endea|vour the reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ireland, in Doctrine, Wor&s;hip, Di&s;cipline, and Government, ac|cording to the word of God, and the example of the be&s;t reformed Churches.</HI></P>
<P N="3">3. this Covenant was ordered againe by the Honorable Hou&s;e of Commons, <HI>Januarie</HI> 29. 1644. to be publiquely read every Fa&s;t day, and to be &s;et up in every Congregation in a faire Table, where every one may read it; and to this are &s;et the names of <HI>Ma&s;ter Speaker,</HI> and 243. more of the <HI>Honourable Hou&s;e of Commons.</HI></P>
<P>And for the <HI>&s;econd,</HI> that they meane to <HI>expedite</HI> the &s;ettling of Government with all convenient &s;peed, we have good cau&s;e to conceive.</P>
<P N="1">1. Becau&s;e they have be&s;towed already very many dayes in con&s;ultation about it.</P>
<P N="2"><PB N="5" REF="10">2. They in&s;i&s;t in the &s;ame con&s;ultations &s;till.</P>
<P N="3">3. They (according to the eminence of their wi&s;dome) appre|hend many and great evils, that grow both in number, and power, by Doctrines of Libertini&s;me, which nece&s;&s;arily require the re|&s;traint of a reformed Church Government.</P>
<P N="4">4. They have already &s;et it up.</P>
<P N="1">1. In their <HI>Ordinance of Ordination,</HI> &s;et forth the la&s;t yeare.</P>
<P N="2">2. In an <HI>Ordinance for making London a Province</HI> this la&s;t yeare, dividing it into &s;everall <HI>Cla&s;&s;es,</HI> and for choo&s;ing a Committee for tryall of <HI>Elders</HI> to be cho&s;en, and <HI>Rules</HI> to be ob&s;erved for orderly proceeding in the &s;ame; and this before this <HI>Quere</HI> came forth.</P>
<P N="3">3. Since that, they have advanced further, by a <HI>Vote and Order for choo&s;ing Elders</HI> forthwith in particular Congregations.</P>
<P N="4">4. And la&s;t of all, they have publi&s;hed an <HI>Ordinance,</HI> with <HI>rules</HI> and <HI>directions for &s;u&s;pen&s;ion from the Sacrament,</HI> in ca&s;es of Igno|rance and Scandall.</P>
<P>Yet they cannot make that &s;peed with the Government, which by mo&s;t is de&s;ired, and very much de&s;ired by them&s;elves (as we of the A&s;&s;embly can witne&s;&s;e, who have often beene &s;ent to by that <HI>Honourable Senate</HI> to quicken our worke, and to ripen our debates to a full re&s;olution) becau&s;e as with us the libertie of &s;peaking (wherein every one is free to propo&s;e, and pro&s;ecute any doubt) prolonged the Government in our hands; &s;o the like libertie in the Honourable Hou&s;es (or rather our libertie is like theirs, it being the <HI>Prototypon</HI>) lengthens the debates, and delayes the Votes of that mo&s;t Honourable Senate; and &s;o much the more, becau&s;e they are more in number then we in our Synod; and becau&s;e their determinations are finall, as ours are not.</P>
<P>And though that which is publi&s;hed doe not yet reach home to our full &s;atisfaction, we hope it is in the way towards further per|fection; which cannot rea&s;onably be expected in the fir&s;t E&s;&s;ayes of frames, and formes of Government; for we may &s;ay of <HI>Jeru|&s;alem</HI> as well as of <HI>Rome,</HI> that it was not built in a day, though in time it became <HI>the perfection of beautie, the ioy of the whole earth, Lam.</HI> 2.15. Such we pray God that fabrick may prove, which is under the hands of our Honourable and holy <HI>Nehemiahs;</HI> and Lord
<PB N="6" REF="11">poli&s;h, fini&s;h, and <HI>e&s;tabli&s;h the worke in their hands, yea the worke of their hands e&s;tabli&s;h thou it,</HI> P&s;al. 90.17.</P>
<P><HI>The other particular</HI> he propounds to make his <HI>Quere</HI> more plau&s;ible, is the reference it hath to two precious things, viz. <HI>Truth</HI> and <HI>Peace;</HI> both which are upheld by Government, Church-Go|vernment; and without it, for <HI>truth</HI> we have abundance of <HI>errours,</HI> and <HI>here&s;ies</HI> broached among us, which divide men into manifold Sects and Factions; and where they are multiplied, there can be no <HI>peace,</HI> without a treacherous toleration, which will re&s;olve at la&s;t into an Anarchy and confu&s;ion.</P>
<P>Having premi&s;ed this, he putteth his <HI>Quere</HI> thus.</P>
<Q>Whether it be fit according to the Principles of true Religion, and State, to &s;ettle any Church-government over the Kingdome ha&s;tily, or not; and with the power commonly de&s;ired, in the hands of the Mini&s;ters.</Q>
<P>Fir&s;t, he putteth the ca&s;e <HI>according to the Principles of Religion, and State:</HI> which if he had well con&s;idered, he might have thought the Parliament for the one, and the A&s;&s;embly of Divines for the other, (competently qualified, each in their profe&s;&s;ion, for re&s;olu|tion of &s;uch a doubt, e&s;pecially &s;ince it is a chiefe part of the pub|lique worke of them both, to drive it to its i&s;&s;ue) might have pre|vented &s;uch a <HI>Quere</HI> as this, from a private Divine.</P>
<P>Secondly, he &s;ugge&s;ts a &s;u&s;pition, as if the Parliament were dri|ving on the Di&s;cipline and Government of the Church in <HI>Jehu's</HI> Chariot, with furious ha&s;te, whereas both Parliament, and A&s;&s;em|bly have much adoe, to ward off imputations of procra&s;tination, and delay; for debating &s;o long, and determining &s;o little, whereof we have rendred the rea&s;ons before.</P>
<P>Thirdly, he pre&s;ents it as a <HI>gravamen,</HI> or of &s;ome dangerous con|&s;equence, that the power &s;hould be put in the hands of the Mini|&s;ters, whereas Mini&s;ters put in for no more power as their due, either from the Magi&s;trate, or over the people, then is con&s;onant to the Scripture, and the principles of prudence; and if le&s;&s;e then that be allowed them, &s;ince it is from God, and for God, not for them&s;elves, God rather then they will be unworthily dealt with|all; and if it <HI>be commonly de&s;ired,</HI> (as he &s;aith) it is the le&s;&s;e liable to his, or any mans exception.</P>
<P><PB N="7" REF="11">Hereto having put his name, (which to me is of a &s;avoury reli&s;h, by what I have ta&s;ted of his other Writings) he clo&s;eth up his Title page with the Te&s;timonie of the Apo&s;tle, 2 <HI>Cor.</HI> 10.8. in the&s;e words, <HI>Our authoritie (which the Lord hath given us for in&s;tru|ction, not for de&s;truction);</HI> the ordinary reading or rendring of the originall word according to the literall &s;en&s;e, is <HI>edification;</HI>
<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="foreign">.</NOTE> but he refu&s;ed that, and tooke the word <HI>in&s;truction,</HI> which is metaphori|call; either becau&s;e he thought the <HI>Paranoma&s;ie</HI> more plea&s;ant to the Reader, or le&s;&s;e profitable for the Mini&s;ters claime to Church-Government; for <HI>edification</HI> importeth more power then <HI>in&s;tru|ction</HI> doth; and he thought there would have beene too &s;trong an intimation of Authority in the fir&s;t &s;ub&s;tantive of his quotation if it had not beene allayed with a weaker word then the Gramma|ticall con&s;truction bringeth with it: and for the other word <HI>de|&s;truction,</HI> if it be taken in a &s;ymbolicall &s;en&s;e to his re&s;olution of the Quere, it implieth two things, which are of &s;trong prejudice again&s;t the Government of the Church:</P>
<P N="1">1. That it is a de&s;tructive thing,</P>
<P N="2">2. That being &s;uch, it &s;hould neither be &s;et up by the Magi&s;trate, nor exerci&s;ed by the Mini&s;ter, nor received by the people: whereas indeed the &s;evere&s;t act of di&s;cipline is &s;alutary, and pre&s;ervative to the better part of man; and though it be de&s;tructive to the wor&s;e, it is not to be rejected, but <HI>co nomine</HI> to be admitted; both the&s;e we make good by the authoritie of the &s;ame Apo&s;tle he citeth, though not in the &s;ame Epi&s;tle, <HI>deliver &s;uch a one unto Satan for the de&s;truction of the fle&s;h, that the &s;pirit may be &s;aved in the day of the Lord Ie&s;us,</HI> 1 Cor. 5.5.</P>
<P>This for the Title Page of this <HI>New Quere.</HI></P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="3" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. III. <HI>The matter and &s;cope of the Quere, and re&s;olution upon it.</HI></HEAD>
<P>NOw for the Di&s;cour&s;e it &s;elfe, the drift whereof is to prove the Negative; viz. <HI>That it is not fit, according to the Prin|ciples of Religion and State, te &s;ettle any Church Government over the Kingdome, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P>For this he pleads in eleven Paragraphs, which &s;tand for &s;o many
<PB N="8" REF="12">rea&s;ons for &s;upport of his Opinion; but they are &s;et out rather with a <HI>Rhetoricall breadth,</HI> then <HI>a Logicall &s;trength;</HI> and he &s;eekes to cover the truth with a broad hand, which he cannot cru&s;h with his clutcht fi&s;t.</P>
<P>I will endevour to pre&s;ent them rather according to the natu|rall vigour (be it more or le&s;&s;e) that is in them, then according to the artificiall colour he hath put upon them; about which the matter of greate&s;t difficultie is to <HI>mar&s;hall them in a right method,</HI> which mu&s;t be mine, though the rea&s;ons be his, and yet it &s;hall be &s;o farre his, as may con&s;i&s;t with good &s;en&s;e, and the order of proceeding: and <HI>therefore</HI> I will divide them into the two heads, to which his Title page directeth me:</P>
<P>Into rea&s;ons
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. Of Religion, and they are taken
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. From faith.</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. From Con|&s;cience.
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. Po&s;itively, mi&s;guided to a popi&s;h compliance.</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. Negatively, not working any good upon the con&s;cience.</ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
<ITEM>3. From Chri&s;tian examples
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. In generall, of the New Te&s;tament.</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. In parti|cular, from the example
<LIST>
<ITEM>1 Of Chri&s;t his
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. De&s;cription.</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. Practice.</ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. Of his Apo&s;tles.</ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. Of Policy, taken from
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. Rules or con|&s;iderations of prudence, which are three.
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. <HI>The more time for trying of &s;pirits, and proving of all things, there is the le&s;&s;e danger to that State of erring in things received and authori&s;ed, &amp;c.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. <HI>There is no Religion e&s;tabli&s;hed by State but there is &s;ome proportion in the two powers, &amp;c.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>3. <HI>Our parties or di&s;&s;enting brethren being now together and cla&s;ped by intere&s;t a|gainst the common enemic, this founda|tion of common unitie is &s;uch, as may draw in both affections and judgements, if not too &s;uddenly determined, &amp;c.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. Examples of practice
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. Negatively.</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. Po&s;itively.</ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
<P><PB N="9" REF="12">The fir&s;t rea&s;on, (taken from the rules of faith) becau&s;e it is the cleare&s;t and cometh neere&s;t to his negative conclu&s;ion, though it &s;tand too farre off either to build, or uphold it. I will propound his owne words, <HI>The rules laid downe in the word for practicall obedi|ence are
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 1. p. 3.</NOTE> the&s;e in part, Let every one be fully per&s;waded in his owne mind,</HI> Rom. 14.5. and, <HI>what&s;oever is not of faith is &s;inne,</HI> ver&s;. 23.</P>
<P><HI>Now the &s;etling of any government upon a people who are yet ge|nerally untaught in the nature and grounds of it, is to put upon them the practice of that wherein it is impo&s;&s;ible they can be per&s;waded in their minde, and &s;o either on a nece&s;&s;ity of &s;inne, or mi&s;ery.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;w.</HI> If M^r. <HI>S.</HI> had minded, as he ought, what he was to prove, he &s;hould have planted his rea&s;on directly again&s;t <HI>the enioyn|ing, or impo&s;ing of a Government, rather then again&s;t obedience to it;</HI> and &s;o the Scriptures alleadged &s;hould have beene made <HI>remoraes</HI> to the erecting of a government, thus:</P>
<P>Tho&s;e that &s;et up a government <HI>whereof they are not fully per|&s;waded im their mind,</HI> and which they <HI>cannot doe in faith, doe &s;inne.</HI> But they that now &s;et up a Church government, with power <HI>com|monly de&s;ired in the hands of Mini&s;ters,</HI> doe &s;et up a government <HI>whereof they are not fully per&s;waded in their minds;</HI> Therefore in &s;o doing they &s;inne.</P>
<P>The <HI>maior</HI> propo&s;ition hath warrant from the forecited places; but the <HI>minor</HI> is that wherein the weight or weakne&s;&s;e of the Ar|gument doth con&s;i&s;t; and that cannot be proved, nor can, without breach of charitie, be &s;uppo&s;ed of &s;uch as have taken &s;o long time, made u&s;e of &s;o many learned and faithfull Coun&s;ellours (di&s;cu&s;&s;ing and re&s;olving all points of difficultie by the Scripture) to be &s;ound|ly grounded both in <HI>con&s;cience,</HI> and <HI>prudence,</HI> for what they &s;et forth, touching the government of the Church.</P>
<P>Secondly, if we take this rea&s;on to &s;tand immediately again&s;t o|bedience, and con&s;equently again&s;t commands or impo&s;itions, it will be &s;omewhat more formall, but every whit as feeble, thus:</P>
<P><HI>That whereof every one</HI> (under governement) <HI>cannot be per&s;wa|ded in his own mind, and whereto he cannot yeeld <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> obedience of faith,</HI> may not be &s;et up or &s;etled in the Church.</P>
<P>But of the government of the Church, with the power com|monly de&s;ired, every one under government <HI>cannot be fully per|&s;waded
<PB N="10" REF="13">in his mind,</HI> nor &s;ubmit to it of faith; And therefore it may not be &s;et up, or cannot at all be &s;et up without &s;inne.</P>
<P>Here the <HI>Minor</HI> propo&s;ition granted, the <HI>Maior</HI> mu&s;t be de|nied: For it is flatly repugnant to religion and rea&s;on, and makes as much again&s;t the former Prote&s;tations of the Parliament, and the late Covenant of three Kingdomes; yea again&s;t all a&s;&s;urances of either kind, as again&s;t the Government in que&s;tion; for there will be alwayes &s;ome that will be &s;crupled with any thing that is pub|liquely e&s;tabli&s;hed.</P>
<P><HI>Obiect.</HI> But &s;aith he,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 1. p. 3.</NOTE> <HI>The people are generally unt aught in the nature, and grounds of this Church Government;</HI> and therefore to <HI>put upon them the practice of that whereof it is impo&s;&s;ible they can be fully per&s;waded in their minds,</HI> is to put them <HI>upon a nece&s;&s;itie either of &s;inne or of mi&s;ery;</HI> To which,</P>
<P>The <HI>An&s;wer</HI> is &s;o ea&s;ie and ready, that it may be &s;ome matter of marvaile an ingenious man (as M^r. <HI>Saltmar&s;h</HI> is) &s;hould make &s;uch an Objection; for</P>
<P N="1">1. The Church Government de&s;ired, is no other then (for the chiefe parts of it) hath good warrant from the word of God.</P>
<P N="2">2. For what is of le&s;&s;e moment, if it be not directly deduced out of Scripture, it is not repugnant to the Scripture, but agreeable to grounds of prudence, and the example of the be&s;t reformed Churches.</P>
<P N="3">3. For the practice of Government, it belongeth not to the peoples part (as he puts the ca&s;e), to be active in it; but to the Mi|ni&s;ters, and Elders, and they are not to enter upon the exerci&s;e of their authoritie before they be &s;ufficiently informed in it: and thence it is that (though there be an Order given for it): they that &s;hould officiate in it make a pau&s;e, and deliberate upon it, before they &s;et upon the practi&s;e of it.</P>
<P N="4">4. For the people, &s;o farre as concerneth their compliance or cor|re&s;pondence with the government, they are to be in&s;tructed in it before they yeeld &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion to it; for that purpo&s;e the Govern|ment is propo&s;ed by parts, and by degrees, &s;o as it may be be&s;t ap|prehended by all; and the Preachers appointed to teach both the offices of the Gevernours, and the duties of the people, &s;o as each may performe his part without &s;cruple, or doubting.</P>
<P N="5"><PB N="11" REF="13">5. If any after this information out of weakne&s;&s;e remaine un&s;a|tisfied, be is not (as this <HI>Writer</HI> re&s;olveth) put upon &s;uch a dange|rous <HI>Dilemma, as either to make choyce of &s;in</HI> by obeying, <HI>or of mi&s;ery</HI> by refu&s;all to obey; for &s;uch as (not out of wilfulne&s;&s;e, or faction, but out of tenderne&s;&s;e of con&s;cience) cannot comply with the rule, are not pre&s;ently to be ruled with <HI>the rod,</HI> 1 Cor. 4.21. but with <HI>meekne&s;&s;e</HI> to be in&s;tructed though they be contrary minded, 2 <HI>Ti<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">i.</HI> 2.25. and with &s;o much long&s;uffering and patience to be forborne, as may not be injurious to the truth of God, and prejudiciall to the peace of the Church.</P>
<P N="6">6. Whereas he would have the generall ignorance of the people touching government a roa&s;on to &s;u&s;pend the &s;etting of it up, it may rather be pleaded for expedition in the worke; for if it be not &s;et up, the people cannot know it practically; and while it is unknowne unto them, it is impudently &s;landered by &s;ome, and impotently yeelded by many others, to be injurious and tyrannicall; <HI>whereas</HI> if it had beene experimentally knowne as it is, it would have beene before now both honourable, and amiable in the eies of them, who are not prepo&s;&s;e&s;&s;ed with prejudice again&s;t it.</P>
<P N="7">7. For tho&s;e two Texts which he alleadgeth for deferring the Government (and if there be any weight in them as to that pur|po&s;e, they make again&s;t it not for a time onely but for ever) I com|mend to his con&s;ideration, and wi&s;h he would preach and pre&s;&s;e to his people when the government is &s;et up, (as I hope it &s;hortly will be) or rather before-hand to prepare them for it, &s;uch Scriptures as the&s;e; <HI>We be&s;eech you brethren to know them which labor among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admoni&s;h you: and to e&s;teeme them very highly in lo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">e, for their works &s;ake,</HI> 1 The&s;. 5.12, 13. <HI>Let the Elders that rule well be accounted worthy of double honour, e&s;pecially they who labour in the word and doctrine,</HI> 1 Tim. 5.17. <HI>Remember. them which have the rule over you, who have &s;poken to you the word of God,</HI> Heb. 13.7. &amp; ver&s;. 17. <HI>Obey them that have the rule over you, and &s;ubmit your &s;elves, for they watch for your &s;oules, as they that mu&s;t give account, that they may doe it with i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">y, and not with griefe.</HI></P>
<P>Thus much for his fir&s;t Paragraph, which may de&s;erve the fir&s;t place, and a fuller an&s;wer then any of the re&s;t, becau&s;e it brings more appearance of proofe, both by Scripture and rea&s;on, then any of the other.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="4" TYPE="section">
<PB N="12" REF="14">
<HEAD>SECT. IIII. <HI>Rea&s;ons again&s;t the pre&s;ent &s;etling of Government taken from Con&s;cience an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P>THe next rea&s;on for adjourning or putting off the Government to a further time, is taken from <HI>Con&s;cience;</HI> and that in two re&s;pects.</P>
<P N="1">1. In that the con&s;cience hereby, that is, by a &s;peedy &s;etting up of government, is mi&s;-guided to a compliance with a
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 2. p. 3.</NOTE> <HI>Principle of Popery again&s;t the Nationall Covenant.</HI></P>
<P><HI>An&s;w.</HI> It is very &s;trange that any one, who remembreth the <HI>Nationall Covenant</HI> (as he taketh upon him to doe that citeth it) wherein we are bound <HI>&s;incerely, really, and con&s;tantly to endevour the reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ireland in Di&s;cipline and Government,</HI> in the fir&s;t Article of it, &s;hould from the &s;ame Covenant plead for delay in the e&s;tabli&s;hment thereof; and yet more &s;trange, that he &s;hould doe it under the title of <HI>Po|pery,</HI> which in the next Article of the Covenant is di&s;avowed; which (if his rea&s;oning were right) were &s;uch a contradiction, as would argue the compo&s;ers and penners of the Covenant to be men of mo&s;t pitifull &s;implicitie.</P>
<P>But wherein appeareth this Popery? Why, in
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 2. p. 3.</NOTE> <HI>bringing the people under a Popi&s;h implicit obedience;</HI> and he confirmes it by expe|rience:
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 2. ibid.</NOTE> <HI>We know it by e<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">eperience</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>that the people have beene ever devoted to any thing that the State &s;ets up, all the di&s;putes or con&s;cience of the common people ending in this, Whether it be e&s;ta|bli&s;hed by Law, or no; and going u&s;ually no higher, or further then a Statute, or Act of State for their Religion.</HI> To which I an&s;wer.</P>
<P N="1">1. For that he &s;aith of <HI>implicit Popi&s;h obedience,</HI> it is very im|pertinently applied to the Di&s;cipline, or Government in que&s;tion; &s;ince (as I have &s;hewed in what I &s;aid to his fir&s;t rea&s;on) it is &s;o or|dered already that therein in&s;truction mu&s;t preced, or goe before ob&s;ervation; nor &s;hall any one be bound to act in that particular any further then according to his light.</P>
<P N="2">2. For his ob&s;ervation upon experience, it maketh as much a|gain&s;t matter of Doctrine as mattes of Di&s;cipline; and more a|gain&s;t
<PB N="13" REF="14">the Authority of the Parliament then the authority of Mini&s;ters; &s;ince They, not Mini&s;ters, make Statutes, and e&s;tabli&s;h Lawes; and if the people be &s;o apt to idolize a Statute, or an Act of State, (but I beleeve they more often offend in defect then in exee&s;&s;e of re&s;pect unto them) it will be the duty of &s;uch as have the Legi&s;la|tive power (wherein he that finds the fault is fitte&s;t to doe the office of an Admonitor unto them) to &s;u&s;pend their authoritie for matter of Religion, and to ordaine and decree nothing of that &s;ub|ject to be received or ob&s;erved.</P>
<P N="2">2. A <HI>&s;econd rea&s;on,</HI> which hath reference to <HI>Con&s;cience,</HI> he brings in upon experience thus:
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect;. 5. p. 4.</NOTE> <HI>We have found by experience that the &s;peedy &s;etling of Government upon a Nation, hath made reforma|tion take little root, &s;ave in the outward man,</HI> or <HI>formall obedience; becau&s;e they received not reformation in the power of the word; but of the State, which went not &s;o deepe into the con&s;cience but they could part with it at any time upon a Law:</HI> And he concludes his ob&s;erva|tion with a patheticall interrogation: <HI>O then why doe not dayes &s;peake, and multitude of yeares teach knowledge?</HI></P>
<P>To this may be replyed:</P>
<P N="1">1. That if he meane it in re&s;pect of our owne Kingdome (and that experience is mo&s;t like to come within his cognizance) the fault was not in the over-&s;peedy &s;etling of a Government, but in the choyce of a wrong Government: <HI>viz.</HI> that of Prelacy, which by an Act and Ordinance of Parliament, and by the Nationall Co|venant is cryed downe.</P>
<P N="2">2. If when Di&s;cipline is e&s;tabli&s;hed, Doctrine were aboli&s;hed, or for a time &s;u&s;pended and &s;ilenced, there were &s;ome force in this exception of M^r. <HI>Saltmar&s;h;</HI> but Doctrine goeth on where Di&s;ci|pline cometh in; as a Schoole ma&s;ter is at the &s;ame time in Office both a teacher, and a corrector of his &s;chollers; and &s;o the power of the word may go deep into the con&s;cience, and the Di&s;cipline or Government is rather an helpe, then an hindrance to that opera|tion: for,</P>
<P N="3">3. The Di&s;cipline or Government is as an hedge or wall about the Doctrine of Religion; a goad or &s;purre to the meanes of grace, to bring men under the power of the Words operation; a curbe to licentious cour&s;es; all which conduce much to the <HI>keeping of the con&s;cience voyd of offence toward God and man:</HI> and though with
<PB N="14" REF="15">many the reformation reach no further then the outward man, <HI>yet that</HI> is not to be imputed to the Di&s;cipline which brings them to the Word, but to their owne corruptions, and Satans &s;leights, and deceits which hinder the Words kindly and &s;aving worke upon them.</P>
<P N="4">4. Where the Di&s;cipline hath beene rightly cho&s;en, and timely e&s;tabli&s;hed, God hath ble&s;&s;ed it with better fruits; as in the King|dome of <HI>Scotland;</HI> whence it is that that Church hath had the fa|vour and honour from God, to <HI>be free both from here&s;ie and &s;chi&s;me,</HI> where with we of this Kingdome and State have abounded &s;o much the more, as the Di&s;cipline bath beene the more delayed; which agreoth to M^r. <HI>Saltmar&s;h</HI> his politick ob&s;ervation in the&s;e words:
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">M. <HI>Saltmar&s;h</HI> his practi&s;e of policy, pol. 81. p. 69.</NOTE> <HI>When places of authoritie be likely to be vacant (much more when authoritie it &s;elfe is at a nonplus) be ready in proiect with a &s;ucce&s;&s;our; long interregnums or inter&s;tices,</HI> (i.) intermi&s;&s;ions in government, <HI>are the Winter and ill &s;ea&s;on of a State, where the nights are long, and the dayes &s;hort.</HI></P>
<P N="5">5. And la&s;tly, for his <HI>Epiphonema</HI> with the words of <HI>Elihu</HI> forementioned which are taken out of <HI>Iob</HI> 32. <HI>ver&s;.</HI> 6, 7. <HI>Why doe not dayes &s;peake, and multitude of yeares teach knowledge?</HI> they make nothing for his purpo&s;e; for the meaning of them is not that Government, or Di&s;cipline, or any other u&s;efull thing &s;hould not be with all convenient &s;peed e&s;tabli&s;hed, but that <HI>the ancient, with whom is wi&s;dome,</HI> Iob 12.12. <HI>the gray headed and very aged men, Chap.</HI> 15.10. who have had the experience of many dayes, and yeares, &s;hould be heard and heeded in matter of advice, and con|&s;ultation, before &s;uch green-headed Coun&s;ellours as <HI>Rehoboam</HI> followed to his ruine, 1 <HI>King.</HI> 12. <HI>ver&s;.</HI> 13, 14.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="5" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. V. <HI>The Argument again&s;t the &s;peedy &s;etling of Church Go|vernment taken from example of the New Te&s;ta|ment in generall an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P>A
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 3. p. 3, 4.</NOTE> Third head of exceptions again&s;t the <HI>&s;peedy</HI> (&s;o he calls it Paragraph 5. though the word <HI>ha&s;tily</HI> plea&s;e him better in the body of the Quere) &s;etting up of Government is taken from <HI>Chri&s;tian examples.</HI></P>
<P><PB N="15" REF="15">Contrary to
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. The New Te&s;tament in generall</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. In particular to
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. The example of Chri&s;t, and that two wayes, in re&s;pect
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. Of his de&s;cription, &sect;. 6. p. 4.</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. Of his practi&s;e, &sect;. 3. p. 3, 4.</ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. The example of the mo&s;t ancient Chri&s;ti|ans, and excellent Mini&s;ters of Chri&s;t.
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. As of John Bapti&s;t; Chri&s;ts forerunner.</ITEM>
<ITEM>2. The Apo&s;tles his followers.</ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
</LIST></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
<P N="1">1. For the generall;
<NOTE PLACE="marg">&sect; 4. p. 4.</NOTE> <HI>We never read in the New Te&s;tament of a Go|vernment &s;etled upon any, that were not brought fir&s;t under Gospel obedience by the power of the Word and Spirit, which thou&s;ands of Congregations in this Kingdome are not; for as in materiall build|ings, &s;tone and timber are not to be clapt together without hewing and &s;quaring, &s;o not in the &s;pirituall; and whereas in the Temple there &s;hould be neither axe nor hammer heard, becau&s;e things were fitted before hand, and &s;o laid together, I que&s;tion how this could be in our Congregations now; I beleeve there would be now more of the axe and hammer heard, then of the building &s;een<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. Here he argueth from the example of the New Te&s;tament <HI>negatively;</HI> which, (con&s;idering the difference and di&s;proportion of the times) is very impertinent. For the conver&s;ion we read of in the New Te&s;tament was from <HI>Pagani&s;me</HI> and <HI>Judai&s;me</HI> to <HI>Chri&s;tianitie;</HI> and while men were Iewes or Pagans, they were uncapable of a Chri&s;tian Government; our Congregations in <HI>Eng|land</HI> con&s;i&s;t of profe&s;&s;ed Chri&s;tians; who, as &s;uch, are capable of, and lyable to a Go&s;pel Government, without which the &s;anctifica|tion of the Sabbath, the preaching of the Word cannot be well or|dered, nor either of the Sacraments rightly admini&s;tred.</P>
<P>And though in thou&s;ands of Congregations there be many whom the power of the Word and Spirit hath not brought to Go|&s;pel obedience, it is no cau&s;e why a Go&s;pel Government &s;hould
<PB N="16" REF="16">not be e&s;tabli&s;hed over them; nay rather it is rea&s;on why it &s;hould be ha&s;tened upon them; and we may impute the profanene&s;&s;e of the people to the want of it, or of &s;ome parts of it, whereby Church Governours may be enabled to <HI>put a difference betwixt the holy and the profane, the uncleane and the cleane,</HI> Ezek. 22.26. For the <HI>rod of Di&s;cipline,</HI> 1 Cor. 4.21. may have a &s;alutary operation in the Church, as the <HI>rod of correction</HI> in the family, <HI>Prov.</HI> 23.13, 14.</P>
<P N="2">2. He makes a compari&s;on betwixt a materiall and a &s;piritual building;
<NOTE PLACE="marg">See &sect; 11.</NOTE> <HI>as in the materiall building &s;tone and timber are not to be clapt together without hewing, and &s;quaring, &s;o not in the &s;pirituall;</HI> of which words (if I rightly under&s;tand them) the meaning is, that Churches mu&s;t be gathered and made up onely of holy, reformed Chri&s;tians, which are as hewen or &s;quared &s;tones; to which I an&s;wer:</P>
<P N="1">1. That &s;imilitudes may illu&s;trate a truth proved, or to be pro|ved, but they prove nothing.</P>
<P N="2">2. That conformity betwixt materiall and &s;pirituall things is not to be carried too far; &s;imilitudes, (as the common &s;aying is) run not on foure feet.</P>
<P N="3">3. There is this difference betwixt the building of the &s;pirituall and <HI>material</HI> Temple, that in the &s;piritual there is nothing but what is homogencall, and of one kind, all &s;quared and living &s;tones, but in the <HI>materiall</HI> the foundation and walls are made up not onely of hewen and &s;quared &s;tones, but of others, yea many pieces of &s;tone which are but as rubbi&s;h, have their u&s;e in the materiall building.</P>
<P N="4">4. And yet wee may &s;ay of tho&s;e whom hee accounts rough and unhewen &s;tones, that they are in part &s;quared towards a conformi|ty to the re&s;t of the building (in that they &s;ubmit to the Go&s;pell rule in many particulars) though they be not &s;o exactly &s;quared, or &s;o perfectly poli&s;hed as others.</P>
<P N="5">5. Vpon this difference the be&s;t &s;tones are not to be taken from the re&s;t to make up a building by them&s;elves, as in &s;eparated Con|gregations many pretend, but performe not; for of tho&s;e who &s;e|parate from others as from profane per&s;ons, divers are not onely rather <HI>gilded</HI> Hypocrites then golden Chri&s;tians; but they are &s;un|dry of them &s;uch as for want of charity and humility Chri&s;t would not owne for his di&s;ciples, <HI>Ioh.</HI> 13.35. <HI>Matth.</HI> 11.29. and who for
<PB N="17" REF="16">railing and covetou&s;ne&s;&s;e, and other raigning &s;innes of an haynons guilt ought to be di&s;carded from Chri&s;tian &s;ociety, as well as a for|nicator, a drunkard, or an idolator, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 5.11.</P>
<P>La&s;tly, To conclude with a Negative Argument from the Now Te&s;tament, as he began his fourth Paragraph, (and again&s;t him it is good Logick, as an Apocryphall Text is good proofe again&s;t a Pa|pi&s;t.) Let him &s;hew any example of &s;uch a &s;eparation as he aymes at, in the New Te&s;tament; where when there was a mixture of holy and prophane, (as there was in the Church of <HI>Corinth,</HI> 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 11.21.) the Apo&s;tles, or Evangelicall per&s;ons, gathered out the holy part to make a &s;eparated Church from the r<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;t, as many doe now adayes.</P>
<P>That which followeth, concerning Axes and Hammers not heard in the building of the Temple of <HI>Salomon,</HI> hath a my&s;terious truth in it, but not to the purpo&s;e for which he produceth it; for it importeth that the &s;pirituall Temple is built up chiefly by the &s;oft whi&s;perings and &s;ecret motions of the Spirit; whereof men heare no noy&s;e, nor can take notice; and what is this to what hee would have?</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="6" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. VI. <HI>The Argument again&s;t the &s;peedy e&s;tabli&s;hment of Church Govern|ment, taken from Chri&s;ts de&s;cription, an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P>THen <HI>for particular</HI> example he propounds Chri&s;ts example, and therein ob&s;erveth fir&s;t his <HI>De&s;cription,</HI> &s;econdly, his <HI>Pra|cti&s;e.</HI> For the former, he &s;aith, The &s;etting up of Government,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect;. 6. p. 4.</NOTE> <HI>is again&s;t the nature of Chri&s;ts De&s;cription of him&s;elfe, and against that &s;utablene&s;&s;e he pre&s;&s;eth for among all &s;uch as &s;hould &s;ubmit to his Commandements; He &s;hall not &s;trive nor cry, neither &s;hall any one heare his voyce in the &s;treets,</HI> Matth. 12.12. <HI>My yoke is ea&s;ie, and my burden is light,</HI> Matt. 11.29. <HI>His Commandements are not grievous; neither doe men put new wins into old bottles.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>In the&s;e words we have rea&s;on pretended, and Texts of Scrip|ture annexed as &s;utable to it, but how impertinently, will be ea&s;ily apprehended by &s;uch as plea&s;e to ob&s;erve.</P>
<P N="1"><PB N="18" REF="17">1. That his rea&s;on, if it have any force, is not again&s;t a &s;peedy Go|vernment alone, but again&s;t Government at any time; for if it be contrary to the nature of Chri&s;t, it is lyable to that exception when|&s;oever it is &s;et up, and worthy pre&s;ently to be cryed down againe; but we adde further.</P>
<P N="2">2. That if there bee a difference betwixt the De&s;cription of Chri&s;t and Church Government it is no marvell, for Chri&s;t as a Sa|viour came to &s;uffer, to be under government both ju&s;t and unju&s;t; <HI>He made him&s;elfe of no reputation,</HI> and <HI>tooke upon him the forme of a &s;ervant, and humbled him&s;elfe, and became obedient to death, even the death of the Cro&s;&s;e,</HI> Philip. 2.7, 8. which is cro&s;&s;e, and quite con|trary to the condition of Government.</P>
<P N="3">3. That neither is Chri&s;t &s;o remi&s;&s;e as not to take upon him a Government in his Church, for he is <HI>the Head</HI> of it, <HI>Epho&s;.</HI> 1.22. and the Head doth, may, nay and mu&s;t governe the body; nor is his Government &s;o meeke, but that he hath an <HI>iron red to da&s;h in pieces like a patters ve&s;&s;ell,</HI> P&s;al. 2.9. tho&s;e that are wilfully wicked; as well as a <HI>golden Scepter</HI> to call tho&s;e into his prefence, who are gracious in his eyes, <HI>E&s;ther.</HI> 5.2. and though comming to &s;uffer, he de&s;cended to the low condition of a <HI>&s;ervant,</HI> Philip. 2.7. (as hath been &s;aid) and to the lowe&s;t kind of &s;ervice, <HI>wa&s;hing of the feet of his owne &s;ervants,</HI> Ioh. 13.5. yet &s;ometimes he tooke upon him to be a <HI>Lord;</HI> and as Lord of his hou&s;e, with a &s;courge of &s;mall cords drave the <HI>chafferers out of the</HI> Temple, <HI>and the oxen, and &s;heepe</HI> &s;old <HI>by them there, and overthrew the Tables of the money-changers,</HI> Ioh. 2.14, 15. And that we may not thinke he is made all of lenity and meekne&s;&s;e, even the<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">: where he is called <HI>a Lambe,</HI> a formidable wrath is a&s;cribed to him, which <HI>maketh mighty men, and military men, free men and bond-<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> to &s;eeke to hide them&s;elves from him th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters"> &s;itteth in the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lambe,</HI> Rev. 8.15.</P>
<P><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">.|Nor is the Government or Di&s;cipline &s;o un&s;uitable (in regard of &s;everity) to the de&s;cription of Chri&s;t, as in the protended di&s;pa|rity is &s;lugge&s;ted, for it is to be admini&s;tred with the &s;pirit of meek|ne&s;&s;e in admonition, to &s;uch as are humble and con&s;cientious in their way, as well as with the rod of Di&s;cipline, to tho&s;e who are <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 span">.</P>
<P><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">.|For the places of Scripture produced in the clo&s;e of this Para|graph, they are all quite be&s;ides the Que&s;tion, or very little to the
<PB N="19" REF="17">purpo&s;e. For which they are brought; for the fir&s;t, <HI>Matth.</HI> 12.19. <HI>Hee &s;hall not &s;trive nor cry, nor &s;hall any man heare his voice in the &s;treets;</HI> it &s;heweth the &s;ingular patience, and meekne&s;&s;e of our Sa|viour, when he was under the pur&s;uit and per&s;ecution of his ene|mies; as in the 53. of <HI>E&s;ay</HI> he was <HI>oppre&s;&s;ed, he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a Lambe to the &s;laughter, and as a &s;heepe before the &s;hearers is dumbe, &s;o opened he not his mouth,</HI> v. 7. Yet at other times he tooke liberty to &s;peake, and authority to re|prove very &s;harply, as <HI>Matth.</HI> 23. from <HI>ver&s;.</HI> 13. to 35. as if out of his mouth had come the <HI>&s;harpe two edged &s;word,</HI> in the apparition to <HI>Iohn</HI> the Divine, <HI>Revel.</HI> 1.16. For the &s;econd place, <HI>My yoke is ea&s;ie and my burden light,</HI> Matth. 11.29. and the third, (<HI>His Com|mandements are not grievous,</HI> 1 <HI>Ioh.</HI> 5.3. which is &s;o like unto the former, that one an&s;wer may &s;erve for both) they make nothing again&s;t a <HI>&s;peedy,</HI> but again&s;t a <HI>grievous</HI> Government; and yet &s;urely, <HI>though</HI> the Evangelicall yoke of our Saviour in regard of the rigo|rous yoke of the Law of <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> (which <HI>neither we</HI> (&s;aid <HI>Peter</HI>) <HI>nor our fore-fathers were able to beare,</HI> Act. 15.10.) be ea&s;ie, and yet more ea&s;ie by the a&s;&s;i&s;tance Chri&s;t giveth his &s;ervants to beare it, (whence it was that the Apo&s;tle profe&s;&s;ed, that he <HI>tooke plea&s;ure in infirmities, in nece&s;&s;ities, per&s;ecutions, in di&s;tre&s;&s;es for Chri&s;ts &s;ake; for when I am weake,</HI> &s;aid he, <HI>then am I &s;trong,</HI> 2 <HI>Cor.</HI> 12.10. When he was <HI>weake</HI> in him&s;elf, then was he <HI>&s;trong</HI> by the &s;upport of Chri&s;t.) <HI>Yet</HI> is his yoke in it &s;elfe, to tho&s;e that are not by him enabled to beare it, very burden&s;ome; as where Chri&s;t requireth the <HI>plucking out the right eye, or cutting off of the right hand,</HI> that is, of any con|cupi&s;cence or contentment (which becommeth a &s;candall or an of|fence to the &s;oule) if it were as deare unto us, as a <HI>right</HI> eye, or <HI>right hand; Matth.</HI> 5.29, 30. and the deniall of a mans owne &s;elfe, and taking up his cro&s;&s;e to follow him, <HI>Matth.</HI> 16.24. the hating his neare&s;t kindred, not onely in a collaterall, but in a directline, whe|ther above or below him, yea, and his owne life al&s;o, <HI>Luke.</HI> 14.</P>
<P>The la&s;t place is, <HI>neither doe men put new wine into old bottles, Matth.</HI> 9.17. Whereof it is hard to make any &s;ober &s;en&s;e, which may &s;erve to &s;tay the Government at Di&s;cipline for a moment; and how it belongs to the re&s;olution of this <HI>New Quere</HI> is hard to find out, though by a &s;ober and &s;erious con&s;ideration of the Ca&s;e. If his meaning be (which he &s;hould not have put his Reader to
<PB N="20" REF="18">&s;tudy for) that a new Government &s;hould not be put upon tho&s;e, who have long beene accu&s;tomed to the old, le&s;t it make a breach upon their con&s;cience, or patience, as new wine wil by its working be like to break crazie bottles, if they be &s;topt while it is in working, <HI>then it makes</HI> rather for the continuance of the Prelacie, then again&s;t the &s;etting up of the Presbyterie, and not again&s;t the Govern|ment, or Di&s;cipline at this time onely, but at any time; for when|&s;oever it comes, it will be new Wine at the fir&s;t, and the longer it is delayed the older will the bottles be into which it mu&s;t be put: <HI>but the truth is,</HI> the Government is neither &s;o new as he would make it, nor will there be any violent working by it to the breaking of any bottle, or ve&s;&s;ell, unle&s;&s;e it be a <HI>ve&s;&s;ell of wrath</HI> fitted to de|&s;truction, <HI>Rom.</HI> 9.22.</P>
<P>His la&s;t words in this Paragraph, and the next to tho&s;e but now rehear&s;ed are, <HI>all which cannot be fulfilled in the Parochiall congre|gations. All which?</HI> all what? why, what is fore-mentioned, what is that? <HI>the Di&s;cipline of Chri&s;t, the &s;utablene&s;&s;e he pre&s;&s;eth for, his meekene&s;&s;e, and &s;ilence, his ea&s;ie yoke, and light burden, his Comman|dements not grievous, and the putting of new wine into new bottles, all which</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>cannot be fulfilled in Parochiall Congregations:</HI> what language is here? what &s;en&s;e? what Logicall connexion, that may joyn the premi&s;es and conclu&s;ion together to beget a thought of compliance with the re&s;olution of the Quere? Conceiving the Penner to be a &s;ober man, I mu&s;t thinke in this pa&s;&s;age the Prin|ters braine might be troubled with the fume of new wine, to con|clude with <HI>non</HI>-&s;en&s;e for a rationall con&s;equence: and I beleeve no new wine and old bottles, how new or old &s;oever, can wor&s;e agree together then the fore-going evidence and finall &s;entence of this Paragraph.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="7" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. VII. <HI>Ma&s;ter</HI> Colemans <HI>experimentall exceptions again&s;t the &s;everitie and rigour of the Pre&s;byteriall Government an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P>BVt doth not M^r. <HI>Coleman</HI> complaine of the Presbyteriall Go|vernment as too &s;evere and domineering, and that upon his
<PB N="21" REF="18">owne experience, and thereupon foreca&s;t &s;ome &s;trange feares, and &s;trong prejudices again&s;t it?</P>
<P>Yes, and he doth it in the&s;e words, <HI>I will tell you,</HI> &s;aith he, <HI>both what, and whence my feares are; I feare le&s;t the Pre&s;byteriall Go|vernment &s;hould incroach upon the Civill; and I al&s;o feare le&s;t it &s;hould Prelatically tyrannize; and the&s;e my feares ari&s;e from Scot|land, and from London.</HI></P>
<P N="1">1. From <HI>Scotland, I my &s;elfe did heare the Pre&s;byterie of Eden|borough cen&s;ure a woman to be bani&s;hed out of the gates of the Citie; was not this an incroachment?</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>It may be not, for there might be Civill Magi&s;trates in the Pre&s;|byterie; and they, (as Civill Magi&s;trates, not as Presbyterians,) might inflict &s;uch a Cen&s;ure upon her; or upon proofe of notorious lewdne&s;&s;e, they might &s;ay, &s;he was not worthy to be &s;uffered to live in the Towne; and therefore that &s;he de&s;erved to be bani&s;hed out of it: but that the Presbyterie did, as a Presbyterie, authorita|tively take upon them to bani&s;h her, he doth not affirme, much le&s;&s;e confirme by any good evidence; and I am credibly informed,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">On monday, <HI>November</HI> 3.</NOTE> that &s;ome of the Reverend Commi&s;&s;ioners of <HI>Scotland</HI> have confidently gain&s;aid that report to his face.</P>
<P>And what if that were one exorbitant act, and u&s;urpation upon the Civill power? will that one act make voyd the right of a power which is Presbyteriall? And what if a Civill Magi&s;trate &s;hould take upon him to preach, and admini&s;ter the Sacraments, as <HI>&V;zziah</HI> would have burned incen&s;e, 2 <HI>Chron.</HI> 26.16. would that make a forfeiture of all Civill authoritie? M^r. <HI>Coleman</HI> will not &s;ay it, nor can he prove what he pretends, by &s;uch an incroachment, again&s;t the Presbyterie. But for this I leave him to his <HI>Antagoni&s;t,</HI> the religious, learned, prudent, and mode&s;t Commi&s;&s;ioner of <HI>Scot|land;</HI> who, I doubt not, will doe the Cau&s;e and him&s;elfe right a|gain&s;t M^r. <HI>Coleman</HI> his exceptions in time convenient.</P>
<P N="2">2. From <HI>London; Pre&s;byterie</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>with us here is &s;carce yet in its infancie, we have had but one or two preparative meetings, and yet in them we had as Prelaticall a trick endevoured to be put upon us, as the nature of the bu&s;ine&s;&s;e could po&s;&s;ibly beare; and when I &s;tood up to plead for an equall intere&s;t, and to prevent &s;uch u&s;urpations, the
<PB N="22" REF="19">grave Prelaticall checks of knave and foole were at lea&s;t whi&s;pered for mine entertainement: Hence the&s;e feares.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>He doth not &s;hew what Prelaticall trick that was; but as (&s;ince he hath explained his &s;peech to a reverend Brother of the A&s;&s;em|bly) it appeareth upon examination, that he was much mi&s;taken both in the per&s;on he &s;u&s;pected, and in the motive and intention of the &s;peaker; &s;o that it was &s;o farre from being a Prelaticall trick, that it was neither a trick, nor Prelaticall, no nor Presbyteriall nei|ther; for what if the &s;pirit of <HI>Diotrephes</HI> be in a &s;ingle Presbyter without a Presbytery? I am &s;ure that meeting (which he mean|eth) was no formed Presbyterie, none &s;uch as was endowed with, or a&s;&s;umed any power of Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall cen&s;ure; if it had, neither he nor his oppo&s;ite would have beene &s;uffered in &s;uch incivilitie of language, as he hath expre&s;&s;ed.</P>
<P>Nor is it rea&s;onable to intitle the extraordinary exce&s;&s;es of par|ticular per&s;ons to any &s;ort or &s;ociety of men; for there be &s;ome and but &s;ome, in all Profe&s;&s;ions, who are very ma&s;terfull in their opi|nions, and forward to engage in termes of contradiction, and when they are once heated with a <HI>fond affection</HI> to their owne fancies, (<HI>which is</HI> the more blowne up by the breath of an oppo&s;ite) they are not ma&s;ters of their owne words, nor can they exerci&s;e any rea&s;onable rule either upon their &s;pirits, or &s;peeches; and &s;ome|times they &s;econd their precipitancie in both, with &s;uch a perti|nacie of will, and &s;toutne&s;&s;e of &s;tomach, that they choo&s;e rather to ca&s;t firebrands about, to put Nations and Churches into a dan|gerous combu&s;tion, then quietly to compo&s;e any per&s;onall quarrell of their owne, though never &s;o incon&s;iderately &s;tirred up by them; this is the extremitie of that malignant and mi&s;chievous practice, which God profe&s;&s;eth e&s;pecially to hate, <HI>Prov.</HI> 6.19.</P>
<P>And for the opprobrious termes he complaineth of, if he had the patience to beare them when he heard them, and did not re|ciprocate one contumely for another, (as &s;ome &s;ay he did) he &s;hould have had the prudence (and to that) &s;hould have advi&s;ed him, had I been of his coun&s;ell) to have buried them in &s;ilence; and not for that which was but whi&s;pered in the eare, to propo&s;e it to publique view, that every one may read the reproach of K. and F. put upon him, in print.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="8" TYPE="section">
<PB N="23" REF="19">
<HEAD>SECT. VIII. <HI>The Argument again&s;t the &s;peedy &s;etting up of the Pre&s;byteriall Government taken from Chri&s;ts practi&s;e an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P>A Second exception reduced to the example of Chri&s;t in his practi&s;e is that
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 3. p. 4.</NOTE> <HI>Chri&s;t Ie&s;us him&s;elfe could as ea&s;ily have &s;et|led his Government by miracle, as any can now by Civill power, if there had beene &s;uch a primary, or morall nece&s;&s;itie of e&s;tabli&s;hing it &s;o &s;oone upon a people &s;carce enlightened for any part of it. But we &s;ee the contrary, fir&s;t in him&s;elfe, he taught long, and Iohn before him, and &s;o the Di&s;ciples, and the gifts for Government were not given till he a&s;cended, and the modell for Government was not brought forth but by degrees, and as people fell in, and were capable of the yoke, and would mould more ea&s;ily to the Commandements of Chri&s;t; and whe|ther then or no, is yet a Que&s;tion (which &s;ome have &s;it the debates to) though not with me, who am fully per&s;waded of the power of order which the Apo&s;tle ioyed to behold; though a power with as little do|minion in government, as tradition in wor&s;hip.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. The acts and times for the Divine providence towards his Church are various; and the rea&s;ons of them many times re&s;erved to God: he could, no doubt, have governed his Church in the fir&s;t age of the world, by the &s;cepter of his written word, but there was no Scripture till God wrote his Decalogue or ten Comman|dements in Tables of &s;tone, <HI>Exod.</HI> 31.18. and if the Booke of <HI>Ge|ne&s;is</HI> were written before, it was yet after the birth of <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> (for he was the Penman of it) who was not borne till the yeare of the world, 2373. all this while God had his Church, and no written Law for the government of it. <HI>Yet</HI> when he brought the <HI>I&s;raelites</HI> out of <HI>Egypt,</HI> (which was in the yeare, 2454) the next yeare af|ter, he gave direction for the building of a Tabernacle; and to the <HI>Morall</HI> Law forementioned added Lawes <HI>Ceremoniall,</HI> and <HI>Iudi|ciall;</HI> divers of which were not to be put in execution untill their coming into <HI>Canaan,</HI> which was well neere fortie yeares after|ward; &s;o farre was he before-hand with the government of his Church of the new edition.</P>
<P N="2"><PB N="24" REF="20">2. Whereas he &s;aith, that <HI>Ie&s;us Chri&s;t could have as ea&s;ily &s;et|led the government</HI> of his Church <HI>by miracle, as any can now by Civill power;</HI> we grant it, yea and more, that he could have done it without a miracle; and yet more, that he did &s;o, when he cho&s;e Apo&s;tles and gave them the keyes of the Kingdome of heaven, <HI>Matth.</HI> 16.19. for remi&s;&s;ion and retaining of &s;innes, <HI>Ioh.</HI> 10.23. and &s;et downe a rule of graduall proceeding with offenders, <HI>Matt.</HI> 18.15, 16, 17.</P>
<P N="3">3. If it be &s;aid, that this was late in the Mini&s;tery of our Saviour, and therefore we mu&s;t take his example, not onely for the thing it &s;elfe, but for the time; this will make more for the Anabapti|&s;ticall delay of Bapti&s;me, then for delay in Di&s;cipline or Govern|ment: for he was not baptized untill he was about thirty yeares of age, <HI>Luk.</HI> 3.23. but he began to &s;et up a government of his Church within the compa&s;&s;e of his publique Mini&s;tery, which at the mo&s;t la&s;ted but foure yeares &s;pace, and many learned men confine it to three yeares and an halfe, or thereabouts. As for <HI>Iohn Bapti&s;t,</HI> his time was &s;horter, for he was beheaded in the &s;econd of the foure yeares forementioned; nor did it belong to his Office to &s;et up a government in the Evangelicall Church, but <HI>to prepare the way of the Lord</HI> by preaching repentance unto the people, <HI>Matth.</HI> 3.3. <HI>I&s;a.</HI> 40.3.</P>
<P N="4">4. Whereas he &s;aith, <HI>the gifts of government were not given till Chri&s;t a&s;cended;</HI> to that it may be an&s;wered:</P>
<P N="1">1. That he a&s;cended fortie three dayes after the period of his publique Mini&s;tration, which added to the yeares forementioned, make but &s;mall difference as to the government in que&s;tion.</P>
<P N="2">2. That though he gave them an increa&s;e of gifts for govern|ment, as he did for preaching, he put his Apo&s;tles upon neither of tho&s;e offices without competent gifts, and qualifications for them.</P>
<P N="5">5. For the <HI>model</HI> of government, which he &s;aith was <HI>brought forth by degrees, as people fell in and were capable of the yoke;</HI> I would know what model he meaneth; if he meane any model of Chri&s;t or his Apo&s;tles (as it appeareth he doth, for &s;aith he, again&s;t M^r. <HI>Colemans</HI> opinion, <HI>I am fully a&s;&s;ured of a power of order, which the Apo&s;tle reioyced to behold,</HI> Col. 2.5.) I aske whether this be given by tradition, or contained in the Scripture; I &s;uppo&s;e he will
<PB N="25" REF="20">&s;ay of Government (as well as of Wor&s;hip) not by tradition, but by the written word; and if &s;o, though it were but young in the time of Chri&s;t, or his Apo&s;tles, it is very ancient to us; (for we have no part of the written word but it is fifteene hundred yeares of age at lea&s;t) why then &s;hould that which is &s;o old in con&s;titution, be thought too &s;oone to be put in execution at the pre&s;ent? e&s;pecially &s;ince (be&s;ides the direction for it in the Scripture) we have had the&s;e many yeares &s;everall patterns of it, in many reformed Chur|ches in the Chri&s;tian world.</P>
<P>Nor doe our brethren of <HI>Scotland</HI> (though they a&s;&s;ert it from Scripture to be the will of God) expect that the Parliament &s;hould e&s;tabli&s;h it <HI>Jure Divino.</HI></P>
<P><NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">M. <HI>Gela&s;pi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"></HI> his brotherly examination of M. <HI>Colemans</HI> Sermon. p. 32, 33.</NOTE> <HI>If they &s;hall in a Parliamentary, and Legi&s;lative way e&s;tabli&s;h that thing, which is really and in it &s;elfe agreeable to the word of God, though they doe not declare it to be the will of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, they are &s;atisfied.</HI></P>
<P>If it be be&s;t, (as his words imply) that the government be brought in by degrees, &s;o it is in the pre&s;ent reformation; for it hath by &s;oft and &s;low degrees pa&s;&s;ed the debates, fir&s;t of the A&s;&s;embly, and afterward of the Parliament; and as for <HI>approbation,</HI> &s;o for <HI>ex|ecution,</HI> it pa&s;&s;eth by degrees the Civill &s;anction, which authori&s;ed fir&s;t an <HI>Ordinance for Ordination,</HI> after that a <HI>Directory</HI> for wor|&s;hip, a good while after that was the <HI>Citie of London,</HI> and the Pari&s;hes annexed made a <HI>Province,</HI> and divided into Cla&s;&s;icall Presbyteries, and then with &s;ome intermi&s;&s;ion of time was a power granted to choo&s;e a <HI>Committee</HI> for triall of <HI>Elders;</HI> and now lately a Vote and an Order for the choice of <HI>Elders</HI> in every Pari&s;h; and &s;ince that an Order or <HI>Ordinance</HI> touching admi&s;&s;ion to, and rejection from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper: and yet there remaine other parts of government to be added to them, which we hope will be authorized in time convenient, and the &s;ooner the better.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="9" TYPE="section">
<PB N="26" REF="21">
<HEAD>SECT. IX. <HI>Rea&s;ons taken from rules and con&s;iderations of prudence an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P><HI>THus much for his Rea&s;ons which re&s;pect Religion: Now for the Politique part of his Quere, in</HI>
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. <HI>Rules or con&s;iderations of Prudence.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. <HI>Examples of practi&s;e.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
<P>His rules of Prudence in the generall are three; the fir&s;t he layeth downe thus:
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect;. 7. p. 5.</NOTE> <HI>The more time</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>for trying of &s;pirits, and proving of all things, there is the le&s;&s;e danger to that State of erring in things received, and authorized, and of involving it &s;elfe into the de&s;ignes of Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall power, then which nothing hath &s;ooner bro|ken the Civill power; as may be &s;eene in Popi&s;h Kingdomes, and our late Prelaticall. There can be no great danger in the not &s;udden in|corporating the two powers. Since Mo&s;es is not alive to bring downe the iu&s;t patterne of the Tabernacle, there may a new &s;tarre ari&s;e, which was not &s;eene at fir&s;t, which if we &s;hut up our &s;elves too &s;oone, while the &s;moke is in the Temple, cannot appeare.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. It is the dutie of a State, that is, of them that governe a State, not onely to try &s;pirits, but to rule them; and rather to rule them then to try them; and for that purpo&s;e the &s;ooner they be brought under government, the better; for <HI>the rod and reproofe,</HI> &s;aith <HI>Solo|mon, give wi&s;doms,</HI> Prov. 29.15. And on the contrary, the longer they live without the yoke of Di&s;cipline, the more enormous will they be: and &s;o the ob&s;ervation of <HI>Solomon</HI> will be verified, <HI>a child left to him&s;elfe bringeth his mother to &s;hame,</HI> Ibid. and his fa|ther too, whereof we have an example in his brother <HI>Adouijah,</HI> 1 <HI>King.</HI> 1. <HI>ver&s;.</HI> 5, 6. And for <HI>proving of all things</HI> to be impo&s;ed, there is a due proportion of time to be ob&s;erved, which may as well be too much, as too little; and it hath beene, if not the fault, the ill hap of our Church and State, to have the Government flut|tering upon the Lime-twig of <HI>deliberation</HI> at <HI>We&s;tmin&s;ter,</HI> when it &s;hould be upon the wing of actuall <HI>execution,</HI> all over the King|dome.</P>
<P N="2"><PB N="27" REF="21">2. Whereas he makes it <HI>a dangerous matter for the State to in|volve it &s;elfe into the de&s;ignes of Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall power, becau&s;e it is a meanes to breake the Civill power, as may be &s;eene in Popi&s;h King|domes, and our late Prelaticall.</HI></P>
<P>His po&s;ition and proofe are mo&s;t un&s;ea&s;onably, and impertinent|ly applied to the Presbyteriall government, which abjureth both Popi&s;h, and Prelaticall dominion by &s;olemne Covenant, and taketh a cour&s;e not onely to &s;uppre&s;&s;e and bury, but to keepe them down, that there be no feare of a re&s;urrection of them.</P>
<P N="3">3. And when on the contrary he &s;aith,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 7. p. 5.</NOTE> <HI>There can be no danger in the not &s;udden incorporating the two powers: &s;ince Mo&s;es is not alive to bring downe the iu&s;t patterne of the Tabernacle; there may a new &s;tarre ari&s;e which was not &s;eene at fir&s;t; which if we &s;hut up our &s;elves too &s;oone, while the &s;moke is in the Temple, cannot appeare.</HI></P>
<P>This is a very perplext and confu&s;ed expre&s;&s;ion, darkning the truth which he &s;hould illu&s;trate; wherein if his meaning be that there is no great danger in the not e&s;tabli&s;hing Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall go|vernment by the Civill State, or that if now it were done, it were too &s;udden and ha&s;ty, it is a groundle&s;&s;e conceit, refuted already; and for that he bringeth in <HI>of Mo&s;es not being alive to bring the pat|terne from the Mount,</HI> and of <HI>a new &s;terre to ari&s;e,</HI> it bewrayeth his de&s;igne not onely to delay the government de&s;ired for a time, but to debarre it for ever; or to prepare the way for &s;ome &s;educing
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">See <HI>Bucol. Ind. Chron p.</HI> 156. <HI>ad an.</HI> 134. <HI>&amp; Schindl. Pentag. col.</HI> 826.</NOTE> <HI>Benchocheba,</HI> or <HI>Barchochebas,</HI> (as his name &s;oundeth) <HI>the &s;onne of a &s;tarre,</HI> who (pretending him&s;elfe to be the &s;tarre of <HI>Iacob</HI> fore|prophecied, <HI>Numb.</HI> 24 17.) tooke upon him to be a new guide unto the <HI>Iewes;</HI> but mi&s;leading them to their ruine, he was called <HI>Bencozba,</HI> the <HI>&s;onne of a lie.</HI></P>
<P N="2">2. For the other prudentiall rule his words are the&s;e: <HI>There is no Religion e&s;tabli&s;hed by State, but there is &s;ome proportion in the two powers, and &s;ome
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 10. p. 6.</NOTE> compliance betwixt the Civill and Eccle&s;ia&s;ti|call &s;tate; &s;o as the e&s;tabli&s;hing the one, will draw with it &s;ome motions in the other; and we all &s;ee</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>how hazardous it is to di&s;-in|intere&s;&s;e any in the Civill part, even in Kingdomes that are more firme, as France, where the Prote&s;tants are partly allowed their Re|ligion, in pay for their civill engagements; and &s;o in other States; and &s;ure I am, the State is mo&s;t free where the con&s;cience is lea&s;t &s;trait|ned; where the tures and wheat grow together untill the harve&s;t.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<PB N="28" REF="22">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>Here he makes the Civill and Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall State &s;o linked, and neerely allied together, that if there be motions in the one, there will not be quietne&s;&s;e in the other; and that the <HI>Eccle&s;ia&s;tical</HI> State hath &s;uch an intere&s;t in the Civill, that it is hazardous to the Civill part, if <HI>it</HI> be not allowed: and for that rea&s;on the Prote&s;tant Reli|gion is tolerated in the Popi&s;h Kingdome of <HI>France,</HI> which is as a pay or a recompence for their civill engagement. <HI>In which pa&s;|&s;age</HI> (as in divers others) he aimes at the <HI>perpetuall</HI> prohibition of Government; not at a <HI>temporall</HI> forbearance onely; and he carrieth it on &s;o as if we mu&s;t allow him the authoritie of a prolitique Dicta|tor without any proofe of Scripture, rea&s;on, yea or of any humane te&s;timony; for what he &s;aith, (though in the way of a rationall ratifi|cation) hath &s;o little &s;trength of rea&s;on in it, that it reacheth not halfe way to the re&s;olution of the Que&s;tion in the Tenour of his Tenet. For what if the Church and State be &s;o &s;ymbolicall as to reciprocate intere&s;ts, and conditions, betwixt them&s;elves? &s;hall the Civill State leave every man, or every Congregation to their owne libertie to be governed, or ungoverned as they li&s;t? every man in matters of Religion to doe <HI>that which is right in his owne eyes,</HI> as when <HI>there was no King in I&s;rael?</HI> &s;udg. 17.6. Nay rather, becau&s;e di&s;turbances are communicated from the one to the other, the Civill State ought to &s;ettle the government of the Eccle&s;ia&s;ti|call, <HI>according to the word of God, and the example of the be&s;t refor|med Churches;</HI> that it may the more &s;ecurely enjoy its owne peace. And for that he &s;aith of the toleration of the Prote&s;tants of <HI>France,</HI> the originall of it was not out of any principle of compli|ance of all Religions with the Civill State, but becau&s;e the King him&s;elfe <HI>Henry</HI> the fourth having beene a Prote&s;tant, and recover|ing his right by the Armes of Prote&s;tants, (though he wickedly revolted from his Religion, and wretchedly &s;uffered for his Apo|&s;ta&s;ie) he could doe no le&s;&s;e in humanity then allow them the li|bertie of Religion; <HI>which hath beene continued unto them</HI> not upon M^r. <HI>S.</HI> his ground before mentioned, but becau&s;e the Prote&s;tants are the tru&s;tie&s;t friends of the Crowne of <HI>France,</HI> and mo&s;t enga|ged to defend it again&s;t the intere&s;ts, and de&s;ignes of the <HI>Spaniard,</HI> who&s;e longing after an univer&s;all Monarchy, is carried with the &s;tronge&s;t degree of concupi&s;cence towards the Crowne of <HI>France,</HI>
<PB N="29" REF="22">as the fayre&s;t marke of his boundle&s;&s;e ambition. Now though his argument fall farre &s;hort of probable, he concludes with a&s;&s;urance: <HI>Sure I am</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>that State is mo&s;t free where the con&s;cience is lea&s;t &s;traitned;</HI> If he meane mo&s;t free in indulgence, by letting loo&s;e the reigns to all Religions, it is true, and if he allow of &s;uch a freene&s;&s;e, (as by his en&s;uing words it &s;eemes he doth) he com|plieth with the Authour of the Booke of the <HI>Bloody Tenet,</HI> who holdeth (as ab&s;urdly as impiou&s;ly) that <HI>it is the will and command of God that (&s;ince the coming of his Sonne the Lord Je&s;us) a permi&s;|&s;ion of the mo&s;t Pagani&s;h, Iewi&s;h, Turki&s;h,
<NOTE PLACE="marg">The &s;ixt Pro|po&s;ition of the twelve prefixed before the Book publi&s;hed <HI>Anno</HI> 1644.</NOTE> and Antichri&s;tian con|&s;ciences, and wor&s;hips be granted to all men, in all Nations and Coun|tries, and they are onely to be fought again&s;t with the &s;word, which is onely (in &s;oule matters) able to conquer, to wit, the &s;word of the Spi|rit, the word of God.</HI> If he meane, where there is &s;uch licentious allowance of all Religions, there the State is free&s;t from commo|tion, and di&s;traction, manifold experience in &s;everall Ages, and Countreys proveth the contrary. He concludeth this exception a|gain&s;t the &s;ettling of the Government with the Parable of the Tares and the Wheat, wherein he clo&s;eth with the forementioned Authour, <HI>cap.</HI> 18, &amp;c. of his wicked booke. But withall, if there mu&s;t be &s;uch a mixture of the tares with the wheat, what warrant is there (for his party) to pluck the wheat from the tares, nay the wheat from the wheat (for they leave as good Chri&s;tians as they take) in their new gathering of Churches?</P>
<P>A third Remora again&s;t the &s;etting up of Government of pru|dent or politick con&s;ideration, is this:</P>
<P><NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 11. p. 6.</NOTE> <HI>Our parties, or di&s;&s;enting Brethren being now together, and cla&s;ped by intere&s;t again&s;t the common enemy, this foundation of com|mon unitie is &s;uch, as may draw in both affections and iudgements, if not too &s;uddenly determined into hereticks and &s;chi&s;maticks. It is po&s;|&s;ible while a Controver&s;ie is long &s;u&s;pended, and time given for conclu|&s;ion of things, opinions may be &s;oone at peace: A fire let alone may dye out under that wood, which &s;tirred in would kindle it; The contentions of brethren are like the &s;trong barres of a Ca&s;tle, and a brother offen|ded is harder to be wonne then a &s;trong citie,</HI> Prov. 18, 19.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>The danger of a common enemie is many times, and &s;hould be alwayes, a cau&s;e of &s;u&s;pen&s;ion of particular antipathies; the wild
<PB N="30" REF="23">bea&s;ts in the Arke were reconciled with the tame, while without it the overwhelming flood was round about; but this cla&s;ping of di&s;&s;enting brethren in the Campe upon pre&s;ent undertakings, mu&s;t not leave us loo&s;e to <HI>divi&s;ion</HI> in the Citie; for <HI>that</HI> (as M^r. <HI>Saltmar&s;h</HI> him&s;elfe acknowledgeth)
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">M. <HI>Saltmar&s;h</HI> practi&s;e of po|licy, l. 4. pol. 12.</NOTE> <HI>is the mother of confu&s;ion;</HI> and he
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Idem l. 2. of his Book of the Practice of policy. pol. 123. p. 288.</NOTE> calls private Conventicles <HI>the very Parliaments of factious deliberations and re&s;olutions;</HI> and &s;aith, <HI>they are to be ob&s;erved and di&s;per&s;ed.</HI> And by the Text he citeth, <HI>viz. Act.</HI> 4.26. he meaneth &s;uch factions, as are adver&s;e or oppo&s;ite to true Religion; and for expedition in repre&s;&s;ing the perill of &s;uch combinations he giveth this advice, (which if he had now thought of I &s;uppo&s;e he would not have made &s;uch a dilatory di&s;cour&s;e as he hath done)
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">M. <HI>Saltmar&s;h</HI> his practi&s;e of policy l. 2. pol. 124. p. 289.</NOTE> <HI>Kill factions betimes, as Herod did the Infants in their cradles; if you let them grow, they may prove too &s;trong for you; when &s;edition is at an age, it is more able; a little Phy&s;ick will di&s;per&s;e a gathering di&s;ea&s;e, which (if it knot) hath more danger and difficulty: it was enough to make the &s;ervant bad when he thought with him&s;elfe, My Lord delay|eth his coming,</HI> Matth. 24.48. And truly the delay in &s;etting up a Government hath beene an occa&s;ion of the multiplication both of here&s;ies, and &s;chi&s;mes, and of an increa&s;e both of number and cou|rage of &s;uch as are ingaged in them; and the longer the delay is drawne on, the more difficult will the reducement be; for men who are di&s;po&s;ed to div<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;ion, make account that &s;uch as forbeare the remedy are either inclinable to them, or unable, or afraid to di&s;plea&s;e them; and by &s;uch conceits they foment their owne &s;an|cies, and heighten their &s;pirits to contumacie, and contempt; whereof there is but too much evidence given in many that op|po&s;e the &s;ettlement of Religion by e&s;tabli&s;hing Church Govern|ment. And whereas he &s;aith, <HI>It is po&s;&s;ible while a Controver&s;ie is long &s;u&s;pended, and time given for conclu&s;ion of things, opinions may be &s;ooner at peace:</HI> We an&s;wer.</P>
<P>Fir&s;t, that po&s;&s;ibility is but a poore plea again&s;t probability, nay, again&s;t particular experience; for it is obvious to any mans view that will ob&s;erve the method of proceeding, and manner of prevail|ing of the di&s;&s;enting party, that while their brethren have endevour|ed by all amicable carriage towards them, and by courteous com|pliance with them, to worke and win them to a brotherly accord, they have driven on their owne de&s;igne with a politique activity,
<PB N="31" REF="23">and have gained more by the &s;lowne&s;&s;e of their adver&s;aries pace, then by the goodne&s;&s;e of their owne cau&s;e, though therein they would be thought to have the advantage. He addeth, <HI>A fire let a|lone may dye out under that wood, which &s;tirred in would kindie it.</HI> But when a fire is kindled, not in greene, but in dry wood, (which will ea&s;ily burne) will men let it alone till it quench of it &s;elfe? or &s;hall we thinke, that the &s;etling of a Government is as the bellowes to a fire, to blow it up into a flame? No wi&s;e man can imagine either the one, or the other; and the contrary is plaine by manifold exam|ples of the Anabapti&s;ts, and other &s;editious Sectaries in <HI>Germany;</HI> for whom at fir&s;t
<NOTE N="a" PLACE="marg"><HI>Guy de Bres</HI> again&s;t the er|rour of the A|nabapt. p. 6.</NOTE> <HI>Luther</HI> did mediate with <HI>Fredericke</HI> Duke of <HI>Saxony, That within his Dominions they be favourably dealt with all, becau&s;e (excepting their errour) they &s;eemed otherwi&s;e good men;</HI> but afterwards, by the connivence and indulgence that was u&s;ed to|wards them, increa&s;ing both in bodies and boldne&s;&s;e, he was faine to
<NOTE N="b" PLACE="marg"><HI>Sleyd.</HI> Com|ment. l. 5. fol. 76. p. 22.</NOTE> &s;tirre up the Princes and people of <HI>Germany</HI> again&s;t them, as for the extingui&s;hing of a common combu&s;tion, or a fire that threat|ned the burning of City and Country. Which I mention not to ex|cite Authority to any needle&s;&s;e or un&s;ea&s;onable &s;everity, but to note the danger of too much delay, in applying remedies to imminent mi&s;chiefes. He concludes this politick con&s;ideration, with a &s;en|tence of Scripture, which is, The <HI>contentions of Brethren are like the barres of a Ca&s;tle,</HI> and a <HI>Brother offended is harder to be wonne then a &s;trong City,</HI> Prov. 18.19. And this he brings in as a &s;eale to this politick Aphori&s;me, for the cea&s;ing of differences of them|&s;elves by &s;ilent forbearance: But will the barres of a Ca&s;tle be bro|ken by letting them alone? And &s;hall one expect to take a City, a &s;trong City, and doe nothing again&s;t it? Wee have not found it &s;o for the mo&s;t part of our late warres, either in <HI>England</HI> or <HI>Ire|land.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Thus farre his Politicke Rules. Now for particular In&s;tance:</HI> We find it of two &s;orts;
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. <HI>Negative.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. <HI>Po&s;itive.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="10" TYPE="section">
<PB N="32" REF="24">
<HEAD>SECT. 10. <HI>The Negative Argument taken from want of experience of the New Clergie, an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P>FIr&s;t, for the <HI>Negative,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 8. p. 5.</NOTE> We have not yet any experience of our new Clergie,</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>who are many of them branches of the old &s;tocke, and &s;o may weild the Government too much of the Epi&s;copall faction; as the Samaritanes did with the Jewi&s;h Government, becau&s;e they were not naturall Jewes: It is not &s;afe tru&s;ting a power too much into tho&s;e hands; our Brethren of</HI> Scotland <HI>have been better u&s;ed to the way of Pre&s;bytery, and may better tru&s;t one another upon mutuall experience, then we can yet.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P><HI>Have we not yet experience of our new Clergie?</HI> Then they can|not be charged with the mi&s;-government of the people; but we have experience of much evill for want of Government; but how can there be experience of them, if there be no government to try them withall? He &s;aith, <HI>Many are branches of the old &s;tocke;</HI> and &s;o <HI>may weild the Government too much of the Epi&s;copall faction;</HI> and yet pre&s;ently he compareth them to the Samaritans, and Iewes, who were mo&s;t adver&s;e in affection, and di&s;po&s;ition, and dealing one to another; compare <HI>Ioh.</HI> 8.48. with <HI>Luke</HI> 9.53. and <HI>Ioh.</HI> 4.9. and then &s;aith, <HI>It is not &s;afe tru&s;ting a Power too farre into tho&s;e hands;</HI> I thinke he needs not much to feare that; The Government will be &s;o qualified for the thing it &s;elfe, and &s;o di&s;po&s;ed of for the per&s;ons that are to manage it, that it will not be in the power of any to a|bu&s;e it, but upon their perill. Here le&s;t the example of our Brethren in <HI>Scotland</HI> &s;hould be brought in by way of prejudice to his advice, and re&s;olution again&s;t the timely e&s;tabli&s;hment of the Presbyteriall Government in <HI>England,</HI> hee &s;aith, <HI>They are more u&s;ed to the way of Pre&s;bytery, and may better tru&s;t one another upon mutuall experi|ence, then we can yet.</HI> It is well that <HI>Scotland</HI> (the Kingdome or Country wherein there is be&s;t experience of the Presbyteriall Go|vernment) yeelds lea&s;t occa&s;ion of exception again&s;t it; a great commendation of it doubtle&s;&s;e; which alone were enough to con|vince all tho&s;e who &s;tand for a <HI>liberty of con&s;cience,</HI> again&s;t a cer|taine
<PB N="33" REF="24">and generall rule; <HI>of which</HI> liberty if there were as much tri|all made, as hath been of the di&s;cipline of that Kingdome, it would appeare faulty, &s;candalous, dangerous &s;o many ways, as would make all good and wi&s;e men weary of it; and there are men of note who affirme (upon late experience in &s;ome Counties of the King|dome) that the be&s;t way to &s;uppre&s;&s;e the multiplicity of Sects, is to let them have &s;cope, and they will runne them&s;elves out of breath; whereto I cannot give my Vote, &s;ince we may not give way that God &s;hould be di&s;honoured, nor the people be indangered, nor fal&s;e teachers tolerated, if wee may hinder it, <HI>no not for an houre,</HI> Ga|lat. 2.5.</P>
<P N="2">2. For the <HI>Po&s;itive In&s;tance,</HI> his next words are,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 9. p. 5.</NOTE> <HI>Wee experi|ence in part &s;ome remainders of Prelacie working in many, which &s;hewes a con&s;titution not &s;o cleare nor pure, as the Di&s;ciples of Chri&s;t &s;hould have; then whether it be &s;afe committing the power too &s;udden|ly; for though I que&s;tion not but &s;ome may be like the ten, yet there are others that are like the two brethren, who &s;trove which &s;hould bee the greate&s;t, till the Lordended the difference, It &s;hall not be &s;o among you.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>This parcell of his Politickes beginneth &s;carce with good Eng|li&s;h, for where reades this writer this phra&s;e, <HI>We experience?</HI> and why did he not keepe to the Termes he u&s;ed in the precedent Paragraph, <HI>Wee have experiment, or experience?</HI> And he goeth on with as little good &s;en&s;e, for a little after he &s;aith, <HI>Then whether it be &s;afe to commit the power too &s;uddenly, for though I que&s;tion not, &amp;c.</HI> Where he &s;u&s;pends the &s;en&s;e of his &s;peech, and leaves it to be made up by a &s;upplement of the Reader; yet we know his mean|ing thus farre, that <HI>it is not &s;afe to commit the power too &s;uddenly;</HI> if he meane by this, and by the word <HI>ha&s;tily,</HI> (in the body of his Quere) <HI>ra&s;hly,</HI> or <HI>incon&s;iderately,</HI> we &s;ay &s;o too; but we deny (which he meaneth) that if it had beene done &s;ooner, or be not deferred longer, it will be too &s;uddenly done; but it appeareth (by what before hath been ob&s;erved) with him to commit any power, or e&s;tabli&s;h any government, (e&s;pecially the Presbyteriall govern|ment) it is too &s;oone or &s;uddenly done, if it be done at all. In the next part of this Paragraph he beginneth to be rationall, but &s;o that it may make more for that part he oppo&s;eth, then for that which
<PB N="34" REF="25">he pleadeth for, in the&s;e words: <HI>For though I que&s;tion not</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>but &s;ome may be like the ten, yet there are others like the two bre|thren, which &s;trove who &s;hould be the greate&s;t, till the Lord ended the difference; It &s;hall not be &s;o among you.</HI> Where if we keepe the pro|portion he brings in, and make application accordingly, we may &s;ay, for two ambitious Presbyterians, it is like there may be tenne that are more mode&s;tly, and humbly minded, then to affect &s;uch a preeminence above their brethren.</P>
<P>Be&s;ides, the Presbyterian government is framed directly accor|ding to the re&s;olution of our Saviour, <HI>(It &s;hall not be &s;o among you)</HI> as oppo&s;ed to the Prelaticall authoritie.
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 9. p. 5.</NOTE> <HI>We find</HI> (&s;aith he further) <HI>the hotte&s;t controver&s;ie is now moved about Church government, and there hath beene mo&s;t &s;poken and written this way, and in mo&s;t violence. Now when the contention for power is &s;o much, and the controver&s;ie &s;treames mo&s;t in government, we may &s;oone di&s;cerne dispo&s;itions.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>But is it not an hotter Controver&s;ie that is now moved, and in motion, and in commotion, touching Civill Government? And for the di&s;coverie of di&s;po&s;itions thereupon, it may be &s;o without any fault in tho&s;e that are for government in que&s;tion, but not without a crime in &s;uch as oppo&s;e it, or de&s;pi&s;e it in any thing wherein it is con&s;onant to Gods word, and found rea&s;on &s;ubordinate to it; e&s;pe|cially when in a great part it is &s;ettled already, and they who are in authoritie are intentively imployed to bring it to perfection.</P>
<P>But &s;aith he,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect; 9. p. 5.</NOTE> <HI>Is it good parting with the &s;takes yet, while there is &s;uch quarrelling for them, and when one party cannot but take it for an iniury, if wholly given to the other?</HI></P>
<P>This Que&s;tion pro&s;uppo&s;eth and importeth an evenne&s;&s;e, and e|quality as betwixt parties that lay wagers, or play matches, and lay downe &s;takes upon equall termes; whereas the difference indeed is betwixt Government and no Government; and betwixt the high Court of Parliament, and all the mo&s;t orthodox Churches, and Divines of the Chri&s;tian world on the one &s;ide, and a &s;mall and incon&s;iderable partie, in re&s;pect of them, on the other; who for the mo&s;t part (though there be &s;ome of them of good note both for learning, and life) might with good Decorum be brought to the Barre, to receive con&s;ure from tho&s;e, with whom they cannot take
<PB N="35" REF="25">upon them conte&s;tation without arrogant pre&s;umption <HI>&s;o it cannot</HI> be an injurie to re&s;olve for government again&s;t them, no more, (no nor &s;o much) then again&s;t the Bi&s;hops ill government, who had po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion of Prelacie by a pre&s;cription Legally authori&s;ed, whereas tho&s;e who are again&s;t the government de&s;ired, have no po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion or pre&s;cription, nor pretence of Law, for their Anarchie again&s;t it. And therefore if the Bi&s;hops had &s;truggled more for their chaires in the Church, and their &s;eats in the Parliament, then they did, and had beene all of them as ob&s;tinate as two of them were,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">B. W. of L. &amp; C. &amp; B. W. of L.</NOTE> who &s;aid, <HI>they would be hangd at the Court gate, before they would yeeld up their votes and places in the Hou&s;e of Peeres;</HI> they had beene more excu&s;able in that contumacie, then mo&s;t of tho&s;e who wilfully with&s;tand the Presbyterie re&s;olved on.</P>
<P>The la&s;t part of this proofe is, that
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">&sect;. 9. p. 5, 6.</NOTE> <HI>It is to be feared</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>there is too much of man, becau&s;e the by as runnes mo&s;t in the&s;e times towards the truth of Government, and many others are wholly &s;et by, which might well be looked upon with it: which, if there were not a principle in man more fitted for a truth of this kind, then any other, would not be. But every truth hath its age, and &s;ea&s;on: this onely for Caution.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>Mo&s;t of this may be granted, and nothing gained to M^r. <HI>S.</HI> his cau&s;e; if there be two much of man in the Controver&s;ie, it is like to be in tho&s;e, who <HI>despi&s;e Government, who are pre&s;umptuous, and &s;elfe willed, and are not afraid to &s;peake evill of Dignities,</HI> a Pet. 2, 10. <HI>If the by as run mo&s;t in the&s;e times toward the truth of Govern|ment,</HI> it is but as it &s;hould be, and as it was when the Prelaticall power was oppo&s;ed and &s;uppre&s;&s;ed by the Parliament; and if the by as were wryed a&s;ide from the truth, it were rather to be noted as matter of exception, then that it bendeth towards the truth; e&s;pecially &s;ince he &s;aith a little after, <HI>there is a principle in man more fitted for a truth of this kind then any other;</HI> and if, (as he &s;aith) <HI>every truth hath its age and &s;ea&s;on,</HI> &s;urely then this truth of Pre&s;|byterian Government is &s;ea&s;onable now; For the Bi&s;hops Go|vernment being put downe, it is nece&s;&s;ary &s;ome other &s;hould be &s;et up, and before all other the Presbyteriall, as mo&s;t agreeable to the word of God, and the example of the be&s;t reformed Churches and it is yet more &s;ea&s;onable to e&s;tabli&s;h it with &s;peed, becau&s;e for
<PB N="36" REF="26">want of it in part, are &s;o many divi&s;ions and di&s;tractions in Church and State.</P>
<P>And if that be true which he &s;aith, that <HI>many other truths are wholly &s;et by, which might be looked upon with it;</HI> it may be the fault of tho&s;e who &s;et them&s;elves too much again&s;t that Government; who, mi&s;taking the truth and integritie of it, make it their maine worke to revile, and reproach it, to make it odious among the peo|ple before they have any true under&s;tanding thereof. But for &s;uch as are mo&s;t for the Presbyterie, I am &s;ure they are intentively &s;tu|dious to di&s;cover, deliver, and defend all other truths of faith and manners, which make for &s;alvation, as well as for the &s;etting up or &s;ettling of the Government in que&s;tion.</P>
<P>The end of this Paragraph is, <HI>This onely for Caution.</HI> Then nei|ther for proofe, nor reproofe; and I wi&s;h he had <HI>had more caution in his mind,</HI> (for if &s;o, he would not &s;o ha&s;tily have &s;et upon the Go|vernment, as too ha&s;tily either intended or attempted) <HI>and more in his paper,</HI> and then I &s;hould have &s;pared &s;ome labour, for he would have had fewer faults, and a &s;horter refutation would have &s;erved the turne.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="11" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XI. <HI>Objections again&s;t the Rea&s;ons for the not e&s;tabli&s;hing Church Go|vernment, propo&s;ed, and an&s;wered, as Objections again&s;t</HI> M^r. Saltm. <HI>his Tenet in the Quere, with Replies to his an&s;wers.</HI></HEAD>
<P>HAving plaid the a&s;&s;aylant again&s;t the Church Government hitherto, (but without any impediment or impeachment of moment) he now turneth Defendant, and takes up the Bucklet to ward off objections again&s;t his opinion; but whereas there be many &s;uch, he meddles but with two onely, and tho&s;e two &s;uch as he thought him&s;elfe be&s;t able to an&s;wer.</P>
<DIV3 TYPE="objection">
<HEAD><HI>Obiection</HI> 1.</HEAD>
<P><NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">p. 7.</NOTE> <HI>But the Temple was builded with all &s;peed, in Nehemiabs time, and therefore, &amp;c. And Haggai calls to the building of it, Is it time?</HI> Hag. 1.4.</P>
<P>To which be makes this an&s;wer:
<NOTE PLACE="marg"><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> Ibid.</NOTE> <HI>Yea, but the materiall pat|terne wa<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> m<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">re clearely left, and knowne, then the Gospel patterne;
<PB N="37" REF="26">the other were more in the letter, the&s;e more in the Spirit; now there mu&s;t be a proving of all things, el&s;e there may be more ha&s;te then good &s;peed, and the Temple may be built by a fal&s;e patterne, as well as a true, and then better no building, then no right Cedar to build with; and there were Prophets then who knew the periods of times, and could pro|phecie, as</HI> Haggai, <HI>and</HI> Zechariah, <HI>but none &s;o exactly now; and the&s;e knew both the fa&s;hion, and the time for building; yet who ought not to ha&s;ten the Temple, if the Timber be ready, and if the Prophets and Apo&s;tles be there for a foundation, and Je&s;us Chri&s;t for a chiefe coruer &s;tone?</HI> Ephe&s;. 2.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="reply">
<HEAD>Reply.</HEAD>
<P>That he may not be thought to &s;ide with <HI>Sanballat</HI> and <HI>Tobiah</HI> again&s;t the &s;peedy building of the Temple, who &s;corned and deri|ded the expedition of <HI>Nehemiah</HI> and his brethren, in being &s;o for|ward to the worke, as if they meant <HI>to make an end in one day,</HI> Neh. 2. <HI>v.</HI> 19. &amp; <HI>Chap.</HI> 4. <HI>v.</HI> 2. he endevours to &s;hew con&s;iderable diffe|rence, 1. <HI>Betwixt the Materiall patterne and the Go&s;pel patterne,</HI> (though
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">See Sect. 5. p. 16.</NOTE> before he married them together to ingender an excepti|on again&s;t the Presbyteriall government). 2. <HI>Betwixt the builders of the one, and the builders of the other;</HI> whence he would in|ferre, that in the former builders there was good &s;peed, in the latter there would be too much ha&s;te, if it &s;hould be &s;et up &s;ooner then he would have it. And if it be too &s;oone now for the Go&s;pel government, will he &s;et a time for it when it will be &s;ea&s;onable to e&s;tabli&s;h it? will he have it &s;tay till it be a materiall building, as the Temple was? or till we have in&s;pired Prophets, as <HI>Haggai</HI> and <HI>Zechariah</HI> were, to order the work? If &s;o, the an&s;wer is a contradiction to government not for the pre&s;ent, but perpetu|ally; and tendeth not to a delay in &s;etting of it up, but to the keep|ing of it downe for ever. If not, then &s;urely it cannot be an under|taking of too quick di&s;patch, if we endevour to &s;et up the Go&s;pel patterne according to the rule and direction which we find in the Dictates of the Holy Gho&s;t, in the New Te&s;tament; which to us of this age cannot be called <HI>new,</HI> nor the determinatio~ &s;udden, or ha&s;ty, &s;ince it is made after frequent, and &s;erious con&s;ideration of the Scriptures, and advi&s;ed con&s;ultation with the be&s;t Divines of the reformed Churches, and &s;tudious collation of the exacte&s;t patterns of Di&s;cipline; after many and long debates in the A&s;&s;embly of Di|vines,
<PB N="38" REF="27">where the di&s;&s;enting Brethren (who by their party were thought mo&s;t able to manage an oppo&s;ition to the government) have had libertie to object what they plea&s;ed: And la&s;tly, after a re|view, and re-examination of matters debated and voted in the A&s;|&s;embly by mo&s;t of our grave and prudent Senators, the two Hou&s;es of Parliament: And in all the&s;e pa&s;&s;ages, by all the Builders e&s;pe|ciall regard hath beene had to the firme <HI>foundation of the Prophets and Apo&s;tles, Ie&s;us Chri&s;t being the chief corner-&s;tone,</HI> Eph. 2.20. and care taken that the &s;uper&s;truction thereupon be not of <HI>wood, hay,</HI> or <HI>&s;tubble,</HI> or of any materiall un&s;utable to it, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 3.12. and &s;o by M^r. <HI>Saltm.</HI> his con&s;ent the worke may goe on, for in &s;uch a ca&s;e, &s;aith he, <HI>who ought not to ha&s;ten the building of the Temple?</HI></P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="12" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XII.</HEAD>
<DIV3 N="2" TYPE="objection">
<HEAD><HI>Objection</HI> 2.</HEAD>
<P><NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">p. 7.</NOTE> <HI>B&V;t vice, here&s;ies, and &s;chi&s;mes will grow too fa&s;t.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>To which the An&s;wer he makes may be divided into foure par|ticulars.</P>
<P N="1">1. That this Objection makes no more for expedition in ere|cting of an Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Government, then in the time of the Go|&s;pel from <HI>Iohns</HI> fir&s;t Sermon to <HI>Pauls</HI> Epi&s;tles, and the &s;ending of the Spirit; pre&s;ently upon the &s;etting downe of the objection, the words he returnes are the&s;e:
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">p. 8.</NOTE> <HI>So they might have done from Iohns fir&s;t Sermon to Pauls Epi&s;tles and the &s;ending of the Spirit; but ye &s;ee there was no government &s;ettled till afterwards upon the people of God.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 N="1" TYPE="reply">
<HEAD>1. <HI>Reply.</HI></HEAD>
<P><HI>So they might have done?</HI> and did they not doe &s;o? did they not grow too fa&s;t? &s;ure it was too fa&s;t, if there were any growth at all. Yet to &s;ay the truth, here<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ie hath not in all ages advanced in the lame pace. But why doth be beginne at <HI>Iohn Bapti&s;ts fir&s;t Ser|m<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">n?</HI> were not the <HI>Phari&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">s, Sadduces,</HI> and <HI>E&s;&s;eans,</HI> Heretiques, or Schi&s;maticks? and were not they long before <HI>Iohn Bapti&s;t</HI> was <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word">? con&s;ult with <HI><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"></HI> in his 13. <HI>Book<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> of Antiq.</HI> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">.9. and
<PB N="39" REF="27">with a Chronologie annexed to it, and you &s;hall find them noted upon the yeare 144. before Chri&s;ts birth. And were not the <HI>Sama|ritanes</HI> heretiques? and very ancient al&s;o? See <HI>Epiphan.</HI> his fir&s;t Tome and fir&s;t Booke, where he brings in them, and nineteene more &s;everall &s;orts of Here&s;ies and Heretiques, all before the incar|nation of our Saviour Chri&s;t.</P>
<P>Since Chri&s;t, it is a que&s;tion who was the fir&s;t Heretique;
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>Epiph. haere&s;.</HI> 21.</NOTE> <HI>E|piphanius</HI> gives the Senioritie to <HI>Simon Magus</HI> before all others; but
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>Aug. exer<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">it. in</HI> P&s;al. 54. <HI>hom.</HI> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">.</NOTE> <HI>Augu&s;tine</HI> will have tho&s;e to be the fir&s;t Heretiques in Chri|&s;tianitie, who took offence at our Saviour for &s;aying they mu&s;t eat his fle&s;h, <HI>Iohn</HI> 6.52. and went away with a carnall con&s;truction of a &s;pirituall &s;peech. <HI>How&s;oever</HI> there were variety of Here&s;ies and Schi&s;mes but too &s;oone, (and very much vice withall) as that of <HI>Ebion &amp; Cerinthus,</HI> who denied the Divinitie of Chri&s;t, which oc|ca&s;ioned <HI>Iohn</HI> the Evangeli&s;t to begin his Go&s;pel with the God|head of our Saviour, and the here&s;ie of <HI>Hymeneus</HI> and <HI>Philetus,</HI> who &s;aid the re&s;urrection was pa&s;t already, 2 <HI>Tim.</HI> 2.18. though the greate&s;t harve&s;t of &s;uch Tares was in after times, when Satan
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>Videns Diabo|lus Templa dae|monum de&s;eri, &amp; in nomen Mediatoris cur|rere genus hu|manum, haeretic<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">s movit, qui &s;ub vocabulo Chri|&s;tiano doctrinae re&s;i&s;terent Chri|&s;tianae.</HI> Aug. de Civit. Dei. l. 8. c. 51.</NOTE> <HI>&s;ee|ing his Idolatrous Temples de&s;erted, and mankind begin to run after a redeeming, and delivering Mediat<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">r, &s;tirred up Heretiques, who, un|der the Name of Chri&s;tians, made oppo&s;ition to the Chri&s;tian Do|ctrine.</HI></P>
<P><HI>But as he makes Iohns</HI> fir&s;t Sermon <HI>terminus a quo</HI> for here&s;ies, and &s;chi&s;mes, &s;o he makes <HI>Pauls</HI> Epi&s;tles the <HI>terminus ad quem;</HI> But which of his Epi&s;tles doth he meane? from <HI>Iohn Bapti&s;ts</HI> fir&s;t Sermon (which was in the twenty ninth year of our Saviours life) to <HI>Pauls</HI> fir&s;t Epi&s;tle, which was <HI>the fir&s;t to the The&s;&s;alonians,</HI> in his fiftieth yeare, were twenty one years; and eight yeares after was the la&s;t of his Epi&s;tles written, <HI>viz.</HI> that of <HI>Paul</HI> to <HI>Philem<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">n,</HI> which from <HI>Iohns</HI> fir&s;t Sermon make up twenty nine yeares: After the Epi&s;tles he bringeth in the &s;ending of the Holy Gho&s;t at the Foa&s;t of Penteco&s;t, which was much-what about the mid-way be|twixt the two termes before mentioned; and then he &s;aith, <HI>But yet you &s;ee there was no government, till after, &s;ettled upon the people of God; till after what?</HI> If after the Fea&s;t of Penteco&s;t or &s;ending of the Spirit at that time, that was in the thirty fourth yeare of Chri&s;t, and but five yeares after the fir&s;t Sermon of <HI>Iohn Bapti&s;t;</HI> and if after <HI>Pauls</HI> fir&s;t Epi&s;tle, it was but twenty one yeares; if af|ter
<PB N="40" REF="28">his la&s;t Epi&s;tle but twenty nine yeares, and before the end of his Epi&s;tles that government was written which we find in Scri|pture; for the mo&s;t of that which is produced for Church Govern|ment is taken out of them; and if &s;o, the &s;etting up of Church Go|vernment was not long &s;u&s;pended: but had it beene adjourned to a further time, it would not prejudice any expedition we can make in this matter, becau&s;e the people of that age, being many of them di&s;per&s;ed Converts, could not generally &s;o readily be for|med into Chri&s;tian Congregations, and government &s;ettled among them, as with us they may be. <HI>Be&s;ides,</HI> what hath been &s;o long agoe e&s;tabli&s;hed in Primitive times, cannot be &s;aid to be &s;uddenly or ha&s;tily taken up in our dayes, e&s;pecially after &s;o many di&s;cu&s;&s;ions, and &s;o deliberate re&s;olutions, as hath beene pleaded in a former an&s;wer. I need not give particular in&s;tance of &s;chi&s;mes as I have done of here&s;ies, in this place, for here&s;ie is the mother of &s;chi&s;me, and &s;ometimes &s;chi&s;me is the mother of here&s;ie, for as ice and wa|ter they many times mutually produce each other, whereof &s;ee the proof in the <HI>Adverti&s;ement</HI> next to the <HI>Preface</HI> of the <HI>New Engli&s;h Annotations</HI> on the Bible in folio.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 N="2" TYPE="answer">
<HEAD><HI>An&s;wer</HI> 2.</HEAD>
<P>The &s;econd particular is the needle&s;ne&s;&s;e of Church Govern|ment: 1. In re&s;pect of man. 2. In re&s;pect of God. For the fir&s;t (&s;aith he)
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">p. 8.</NOTE> <HI>If Here&s;ies &s;tirre up their Patrons again&s;t the State, the Magi&s;trate bears not the &s;word in vaine; and if morall tran&s;gre&s;&s;ions, let the Magi&s;trates be &s;et on in every place, to quicken the Statutes; and Preachers every where &s;ent forth to publi&s;h the Go&s;pel.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 N="2" TYPE="reply">
<HEAD><HI>Reply</HI> 2.</HEAD>
<P>What if they do not &s;tirre up their Patrons again&s;t the State? but Heretiques bu&s;ily be&s;tirre them&s;elves to poy&s;on the &s;oules of the people with damnable Doctrine; and what if that doctrine be in an high degree derogatory to the glory of God? as the opinions and po&s;itions of <HI>Paul Be&s;t</HI> again&s;t the Trinitie of Per&s;ons in the Deitie, and the Divinitie of the &s;onne of God, and the bla&s;phemous Ver&s;es be made again&s;t them, &s;hall they be &s;uffered &s;o to reproach the mo&s;t High, and to &s;educe the &s;imple to the perdition of their &s;oules, if they doe not perturbe the publique peace? that were a &s;inne of neere alliance to old <HI>Elyes</HI> indulgence to his wicked &s;onnes, who&s;e mildne&s;&s;e toward them is interpreted by God, an <HI>honouring of his
<PB N="41" REF="28">&s;onnes above him,</HI> 1 Sam. 2.29. If Truth be not more precious then Peace, why did our Saviour with reference to the offence (taken at Go&s;pel truths) and the defence of them again&s;t all gaine-&s;ayers, &s;ay, <HI>he came not to &s;end peace, but the &s;word?</HI> Matth. 10.34. Why are ancient Fathers in their di&s;putes again&s;t the
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">The <HI>Arians</HI> would have had it <GAP DESC="foreign">.</NOTE> <HI>Arians</HI> commended for their con&s;tancie, in that (for reconciliation with them) they would not change a letter of the word <GAP DESC="foreign">? and why doe we expo&s;e our &s;elves to the quarrels of &s;o many adver&s;aries, e&s;pecially tho&s;e of the Romi&s;h Religion, rather then be at peace with them, with giving up any part of tho&s;e truths, wherein God is di&s;honou|red by their <HI>antitenets,</HI> though the peace of the State be not di&s;tur|bed by them?</P>
<P>And for <HI>morall tran&s;gre&s;&s;ions,</HI> he would <HI>have the Magi&s;trate &s;et on in every place. Set on,</HI> by whom? and how? doth he mean that the Magi&s;trate is as a &s;hepherds dogge, to be &s;et on the wolfe that comes to make &s;poile of the flock? we cannot have &s;o meane a thought of the Magi&s;trate, as to make mention of him in &s;uch termes of di&s;paragement; nor dare we take upon us &s;o much, either intere&s;t in all Magi&s;trates, or &s;o much power in any, as to give them the watchword when to draw the &s;word, and to expect that they &s;hould weild it as we would have them. And if Mini&s;ters preach, and doe what they can with their a&s;&s;i&s;tant Elders, by Church Di&s;ci|pline, to regulate men in a way of religious walking, there will notwith&s;tanding be worke enough for the Magi&s;trate to bring them under a Civill triall, and &s;uffering, who make no con&s;cience to de&s;erve, and have &s;o much contumacie as to contemne the Ec|cle&s;ia&s;ticall cen&s;ures: but I &s;hall meet with this exception againe in the 14. Section, and there &s;hall make a further an&s;wer unto it.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 N="3" TYPE="answer">
<HEAD><HI>An&s;wer</HI> 3.</HEAD>
<P><HI>A &s;econd needle&s;ne&s;&s;e is in respect of God:</HI> God wil make out by ex|traordinary what is wanting in ordinary meanes, as with armour from heaven again&s;t Principalities on earth; and he gives in&s;tance in the <HI>Prince of Per&s;ia,</HI> Dan. 10.20. and makes as &s;ure of the conque&s;t, as Chri&s;t was in his &s;ingle combate with Satan in the wilderne&s;&s;e, <HI>Matth.</HI> 4. His words next following tho&s;e fore-cited are the&s;e.
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">p. 8.</NOTE> <HI>And what if the Prince of Per&s;ia with&s;tand for a while? truth is o|therwi&s;e armed from heaven: though Satan be in the wilderne&s;&s;e with Chri&s;t, yet Chri&s;t &s;hall conquer.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 N="3" TYPE="reply">
<PB N="42" REF="29">
<HEAD>3. <HI>Reply.</HI></HEAD>
<P>While we know how to di&s;tingui&s;h betwixt &s;aith and pre&s;um|ption, we cannot thinke it meet to divide &s;ub&s;ervient meanes from the &s;upreme power; nor the exerci&s;e of Di&s;cipline and Govern|ment, from his a&s;&s;i&s;tance who can make it effectuall; though <HI>the Sword of the Lord</HI> be able to cut downe the enemie as the Mower doth gra&s;&s;e, yet <HI>the Sword of Gideon</HI> mu&s;t goe along with it to the warres; and in tho&s;e warres wherein the enemies were miracu|lou&s;ly di&s;comfited, and confounded; <HI>the Sword of the Lord and the Sword of Gideon</HI> are voiced together, <HI>Iudg.</HI> 6.20. we mu&s;t take in all helps, <HI>helps in government,</HI> 1 Cor. 12.28. to &s;uppre&s;&s;e Here&s;ie, Schi&s;me and Profanene&s;&s;e; and when we have done all we can, we mu&s;t <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ely upon Divine aid for &s;ucce&s;&s;e; and therefore mu&s;t we pray, as the Apo&s;tle pre&s;cribeth, <HI>that we may live a quiet and peace|able life in all godline&s;&s;e and hone&s;tie,</HI> 1 Tim. 2.2.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 N="4" TYPE="answer">
<HEAD><HI>An&s;wer</HI> 4.</HEAD>
<P>The fourth and la&s;t thing which he brings to an&s;wer the Obje|ction is the imputation of jealou&s;ie, in &s;uch as are de&s;irous to &s;et for|ward the Government; and he makes as if <HI>it were a propertie of Pa|pi&s;ts, and Prelates, to keep up their &s;uppo&s;ed truths, by &s;u&s;pecting every thing that appeares for an enemy;</HI> which he thus &s;ets downe and aggravates by an Antithe&s;is of the boldne&s;&s;e of the Go&s;pel.
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">p. 8.</NOTE> <HI>It is the Papi&s;ts and Prelates iealou&s;ie to keepe up their &s;uppo&s;ed truths by &s;uspecting every thing that appeares for an enemy; the Gospel dares walke abroad with boldne&s;&s;e, and &s;implicitie, when traditions of men, like melancholie people, feare every thing they meete will kill them: For the Angel that comes downe from heaven hath great power; and the earth is lightned with his glory,</HI> Revel. 18.1.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 N="4" TYPE="reply">
<HEAD>4. <HI>Reply.</HI></HEAD>
<P>There is a jealou&s;ie which the Apo&s;tle calls <HI>godly iealou&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">e,</HI> 2 Cor. 11.2. and &s;uch a one is that which would &s;et up as many &s;ecurities as may be, again&s;t here&s;ie and impietie. Among them Church Go|vernement is one; of which, they that &s;tand for it, are not afraid to let it goe abroad, for they have made it publique, and expo&s;ed it to the view of all eyes. The jealou&s;ie which is a fault is rather to be found in th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;e who have laboured to &s;tifle the government in the birth, and to &s;uppro&s;&s;e it that it might never be brought forth; and who talke of a more perfect modell, but cannot be per&s;waded to
<PB N="43" REF="29">bring it to light, that it may be viewed and tryed whether it be a well grounded truth, or a groundle&s;&s;e fancie. But there is a feare which we profe&s;&s;e, and I hope without offence, it is a feare of Gods anger and of imminent danger, for communion with, and connivence toward hereticall, and wicked men, which makes the godly abhorre their company, as we &s;ee in <HI>Iohn</HI> the <HI>Evangeli&s;t</HI>
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>Iren. adver&s;. haere&s;. l.</HI> 3. <HI>c.</HI> 3. <HI>&amp; po&s;t eum Eu&s;ebius.</HI></NOTE>; when he &s;uddenly got out of the Bath, &s;o &s;oone as the Heretick <HI>Cerinthus</HI> came into it, fearing it would fall upon his head, and theirs who accompanied him; and &s;o it did, &s;o &s;oone as <HI>Iohn</HI> was departed out of it.</P>
<P>And there is in &s;ome an aver&s;ion from Here&s;ie, Schi&s;me, and Profanene&s;&s;e, out of hatred of what&s;oever is oppo&s;ite to the glory of God, and to the &s;afety of man; and this hate is a great evidence not of a cau&s;ele&s;&s;e jealou&s;ie, but of a true zeale, and love of God and man.</P>
<P>Hence was it that
<NOTE N="a" PLACE="marg"><HI>Iren. adver&s;. haere&s;. l.</HI> 3. <HI>c.</HI> 3.</NOTE> <HI>Polycarp</HI> the Di&s;ciple of <HI>Iohn</HI> (a Scholler of a religious temper like his Ma&s;ter) was &s;o adver&s;e to <HI>Marcion</HI> the Heretick, that when (&s;craping acquaintance of him) he <HI>asked him whether he knew him or no?</HI> he an&s;wered, <HI>he knew him to be the elde&s;t &s;onne of Satan;</HI> and that
<NOTE N="b" PLACE="marg"><HI>Hilary</HI> again&s;t <HI>Auxent. p.</HI> 217.</NOTE> <HI>Hilary</HI> &s;peaking again&s;t <HI>Auxentius</HI> an <HI>Arian</HI> Heretick, &s;aid, <HI>he would never &s;peake otherwi&s;e of him then as of a Devil incarnate;</HI> and that <HI>Hierome</HI>
<NOTE N="c" PLACE="marg"><HI>Hieron.</HI> in P&s;al. 5. <HI>Tom.</HI> 8. <HI>p.</HI> 4.</NOTE> called Hereticks <HI>men of blood, who daily &s;hed the blood of &s;oules;</HI> and
<NOTE N="d" PLACE="marg"><HI>Hieron. Pr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">|log. in Dial. ad|ver&s;. Lucif. Tom.</HI> 2. <HI>p.</HI> 263.</NOTE> averred that <HI>as he had never &s;pared Hereticks, &s;o he never would,</HI> and that <HI>he &s;tu|diou&s;ly de&s;ired to make tho&s;e his enemies, who were enemies to the Church.</HI> There be many other cau&s;es then, (be&s;ides a Popi&s;h or Prelaticall jealou&s;ie (ari&s;ing out of guilt or mi&s;tru&s;t of the weake|ne&s;&s;e or cra&s;ine&s;&s;e of the cau&s;e) which make the godly de&s;irous of a prevention o<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> &s;uppre&s;&s;ion of Here&s;ie and Schi&s;me; and &s;incerely to endevour the compleat e&s;tabli&s;hment of puritie and unitie in the Church of God. But I will take up with that one of the Lords and Commens in Parliament A&s;&s;embled their Ordinance of the 20. of <HI>October,</HI> 1645. concerning rules for receiving of the S<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">rament of the Lords Supper, which is the Obligation of Religious gra|titude to God piou&s;ly acknowledged in this patheticall expre&s;&s;ion. <HI>The Lords and Commons con&s;idering the wonderfull providence of God in calling them to this great and difficult worke of reforming, and purging his Church and people; his guidance and manife&s;t protection
<PB N="44" REF="30">of them in it, doe acknowledge that never any of his &s;ervants &s;ince the foundation of the world had more high and &s;trong engagements, heartily, and &s;incerely to endevour the compleat e&s;tabli&s;hment of puri|tie and unitie in the Church of God, then they have; they doe there|fore require all Mini&s;ters and Elders, &amp;c.</HI> And if M^r. <HI>Saltm.</HI> had well con&s;idered who were engaged for the e&s;tabli&s;hment of Church Government, and how farre, before he publi&s;hed his <HI>New Quere,</HI> he would not &s;urely have &s;o farre undervalued their Pietie and Prudence, as to compare them to <HI>Papi&s;ts,</HI> and <HI>Papall Prelates,</HI> and <HI>melancholy men who thinke every thing they meet will kill them.</HI> I will conclude my Reply to his An&s;wer, with a piece of his
<NOTE N="a" PLACE="marg">M. <HI>Sal<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">m. pol.</HI> 201. <HI>p.</HI> 174.</NOTE> own politick advice, in three particulars.</P>
<P N="1">1. <HI>To &s;uspect plau&s;ible and faire language in him who&s;e per&s;on may render him &s;uspicious;</HI> and &s;uch for the mo&s;t part are &s;educing Schi&s;maticks, and Hereticks, who <HI>by good words and faire &s;peeches deceive the heart of the &s;imple,</HI> Rom. 16.18.</P>
<P N="2">2. <NOTE N="b" PLACE="marg"><HI>Ibid. pol.</HI> 228.</NOTE> <HI>To &s;tudy to remove the occa&s;ions of faction and here&s;ies.</HI></P>
<P N="3">3. <NOTE N="c" PLACE="marg"><HI>Ibid. pol.</HI> 246.</NOTE> <HI>In factious &s;tirres, if it be requi&s;ite, to mu&s;ter forces with all expedition for appalling them; and thus,</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>you weigh downe the weight of one &s;cale, with the weight of another.</HI> And it is no le&s;&s;e a part of prudence to prevent them, then to &s;upplant them. Vpon &s;uch principles as the&s;e, in part, is Church Government ordained, and there being &s;o many, and &s;tirring factions, it is with as much &s;peed (as with conveniencie may be) to be &s;ettled as a remedy again&s;t them.</P>
<P>There is nothing more in his An&s;wer but a Text out of the <HI>Re|velation,</HI> it is <HI>Chap.</HI> 18. <HI>v.</HI> 1. which with the word <HI>For</HI> is brought in as a proofe of what was la&s;t &s;poken, and as a &s;eale to clo&s;e up the totall &s;umme of his re&s;olution of this <HI>New Quere</HI> thus: <HI>For the Angel that cometh downe from heaven hath great power, and the earth is lightne<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> with his glory:</HI> But this &s;erves to none other pur|po&s;e, but to &s;hew, that as he began, &s;o he endeth his paper with mi&s;application of Scripture.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="13" TYPE="section">
<PB N="45" REF="30">
<HEAD>SECT. XIII. <HI>An additionall An&s;wer to &s;ome exceptions of</HI> M^r. Saltm. (<HI>taken out of</HI> M^r. Prinnes Vindication) <HI>again&s;t the pre&s;ent e&s;tabli&s;hment of Church Government, in his late Booke entituled</HI> The opening of M^r. Prinnes new Booke, called a VINDICATION.</HEAD>
<P>IN this Booke which he nameth <HI>The opening of Ma&s;ter Prinnes new Booke called a Vindication;</HI> the Authour hath opened him|&s;elfe plainly to be an Independent at lea&s;t, and oppo&s;ite to the Pre&s;|byteriall Government; which he hath formerly di&s;avowed, when in conference with him I de&s;ired him to declare to which part he inclined; as Section the fir&s;t hath beene ob&s;erved.</P>
<P>I &s;hall pre&s;ent the Reader with &s;o much of the matter in this New Booke, as I find &s;ymbolicall to the &s;en&s;e and re&s;olution of his <HI>New Quere;</HI> the &s;umme whereof is in his la&s;t an&s;wer of <HI>P.</HI> to <HI>C.</HI> of which two letters (repre&s;enting two per&s;ons in conference Dia|logue wi&s;e) it is very probable <HI>P.</HI> may &s;tand for <HI>Pre&s;byterian,</HI> but for <HI>C.</HI> to me it is very doubtfull whether it be put for the name of my reverend Brother M^r. <HI>Coleman,</HI> whom he citeth in the fourth page of his <HI>New Quere;</HI> or whether <HI>C.</HI> &s;tand for <HI>Congregationall;</HI> or if I did not conceive him to be of a better &s;pirit then I have ob&s;er|ved in many Antipresbyterian Scriblers, I would thinke <HI>C.</HI> &s;tood for <HI>Chri&s;tian,</HI> with intimation that the Presbyterian government is Antichri&s;tian; but I cannot cen&s;ure &s;o of him, e&s;pecially &s;ince he profe&s;&s;eth <HI>to honour Pre&s;byterians as beleevers, and brethren in the Lord; brethren</HI> as <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> not his brethren as <HI>Pre&s;byters;</HI> (if it be true which I heare that he preacheth not as a Presbyter, but as a gifted brother) but this but by the way; that which in this Book we are now to ob&s;erve is that <HI>P.</HI> as convinced, and converted by <HI>C.</HI> is made to &s;ay:</P>
<P>P. <HI>Well, I am at this time well per&s;waded,
<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>p.</HI> 23. Of <HI>the opening.</HI></NOTE> and having heard all this, for my part I cannot but &s;ee, that in &s;ettling things &s;uddenly up|on this Kingdome, and things thus que&s;tionable, and unwarrantable in the way of admini&s;tration, and a Kingdome &s;o full of impenitent and
<PB N="46" REF="31">&s;candalous &s;inners as Parochiall Congregations generally are, there is danger of great &s;inne, and great trouble.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>This may be true if government, whereby the &s;candalous will be &s;evered from the religious, be either not e&s;tabli&s;hed at all, or too long deferred: but that it may not be &s;et up at all, or not &s;o &s;oone as is nece&s;&s;arie, he brings &s;ome proofes from M^r. <HI>Prinnes Vindi|cation,</HI> (<HI>which</HI> he endevours to di&s;prove, and confute in other parti|culars) and I am willing to take notice of them rather from him, then from M^r. <HI>Pr.</HI> (though I have read them in his Booke) for divers rea&s;ons.</P>
<P N="1">1. Becau&s;e M^r. <HI>P.</HI> is a friend to the Presbyteriall government, having <HI>both
<NOTE N="a" PLACE="marg">M. <HI>Prinne</HI> his Vindicati|on. <HI>p.</HI> 56.</NOTE> pleaded for it, and beene per&s;ecuted</HI> (as he &s;aith) <HI>by Se|ctaries, and Independents, for his good will unto it.</HI></P>
<P N="2">2. Becau&s;e <HI>he
<NOTE N="b" PLACE="marg">So in the E|pi&s;tle to the Reader before his Vindicat. fol. 2. p. 2.</NOTE> profe&s;&s;eth to love and honour with his &s;oule the A&s;&s;embly of Divines;</HI> and hath in a booke of purpo&s;e vindicated them from Libellous a&s;per&s;ions of the Antipresbyterians. I con|fe&s;&s;e M^r. <HI>Saltm.</HI> was once &s;o reverently and religiou&s;ly conceited of them, that he honored them in print with the Title of a <HI>mo&s;t Sa|cred A&s;&s;embly,</HI> in a
<NOTE N="c" PLACE="marg">M. <HI>Salem.</HI> his Dedication, of the <HI>Examinati|ons,</HI> or the <HI>Di&s;|covery of &s;ome dangerous po&s;i|tions delivered in a Sermon of Reformation in the Church of the Savoy on the Fast day,</HI> July 26. 1643. by <HI>Tho. Fuller.</HI> B. D.</NOTE> Dedication of a little book unto them; &s;ome of whom (my &s;elfe for one) de&s;ired him to forbeare that Title in the re&s;t of the Copies which were not then wrought off from the Pre&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">e; but being &s;o farre engaged again&s;t the Presbyteriall way as now he is, I cannot thinke he hath &s;o good either opinion of, or af|fection to the A&s;&s;embly, as formerly he hath profe&s;&s;ed unto them, and towards them.</P>
<P N="3">3. Becau&s;e I am confident that what&s;oever M^r. <HI>P.</HI> writeth (though I approve not all that is &s;et out in his name) he writeth with a very upright and &s;incere heart; without any &s;ini&s;ter end or aime at gaine to him&s;elfe, or glory with men.</P>
<P N="4">4. Becau&s;e I have found him &s;o kind to me in &s;everall kinds, that I am loth to take him for an adver&s;ary in any publique conte|&s;tation; and yet I &s;hall take the boldne&s;&s;e (as ju&s;t occa&s;ion &s;hall in|duce me) to u&s;e the freedome of a friend unto him, and to be true to the truth, without partiall re&s;pect to friend or foe.</P>
<P N="5">5. Becau&s;e M^r. <HI>Pr.</HI> doth not write what M^r. <HI>Saltm.</HI> alleadgeth out of him, again&s;t expedition in the &s;etting up of Presbyteriall
<PB N="47" REF="31">government, much le&s;&s;e finally to &s;uppre&s;&s;e it, which &s;eemes to be the de&s;ire and endevour of M^r. <HI>Salt<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="14" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XIIII. <HI>The objections taken from a &s;uppo&s;ed needle&s;ne&s;&s;e of the Pre&s;bytery an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P>THat which he produceth again&s;t the Presbytery in M^r. <HI>Prinnes</HI> name, con&s;i&s;teth chiefly of two particulars.</P>
<P N="1">1. That there is no nece&s;&s;itie of it, that it &s;hould be e&s;tabli&s;hed.</P>
<P N="2">2. The want of efficacie in it, where it is e&s;tabli&s;hed.</P>
<P>For the fir&s;t, he produceth a remarkable pa&s;&s;age (as he cals it) out of M^r. <HI>Prinnes Vindication</HI> in the&s;e words.</P>
<P><HI>And if our A&s;&s;embly and Mini&s;ters will but diligently preach a|gain&s;t that catalogue of &s;candalous &s;innes, and &s;inners, they have pre|&s;ented to the Parliament, and the Parliament pre&s;cribe &s;evere Tem porall Laws and puni&s;hments again&s;t them, and appoint good Civill Magi&s;trates to &s;ee them duely executed, and inflicted; I am confident, that this would work a greater Reformation in our Church and State in one halfe yeare, then all the Church Di&s;cipline and Con&s;ures now &s;o eagerly conte&s;ted for, will doe in an age, and will be the onely true way, and &s;peedie&s;t cour&s;e to reforme both Church and State at once; which I hope the Parliament will con&s;ider of, and take care, that our Mini&s;ters (like the Bi&s;hops formerly) may not now be taken up with ruling and governing, but preaching and in&s;tructing, which is worke enough, wholly to engro&s;&s;e their time and thoughts.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>This &s;aying of M^r. <HI>P.</HI> I &s;ee beginneth to be had in honour by out Independent Brethren; for it is the <HI>Alpha</HI> of M^r. <HI>S.E.</HI> and M^r. <HI>T.T. their defence of po&s;itions,</HI> it is as the <HI>Omega</HI> of M^r. <HI>S.</HI> his an&s;wer to M^r. <HI>Prins Vindication,</HI> (and I wi&s;h the Authour of it may have &s;o much of it from the better &s;ort of them as may make him &s;ome amends for the contumelies, and calumnies he hath &s;uffered from the wor&s;e) and if M^r. <HI>P.</HI> his Te&s;timony be &s;o authentick with them, (but with mo&s;t of them I know it is not) it may not be a|mi&s;&s;e to minde them, not of a piece of a lea&s;e, but of whole
<NOTE N="a" PLACE="marg"><HI>Independencie examined, un|masked, refuted by</HI> 12. <HI>new par|ti<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ular Interro|gatories: dete|cting both the manifold ab&s;ur|dities, incon|veniences that must nece&s;&s;arily attend it, to the great distur|bance of Church, State, the di|minution, &s;ub|ver&s;ion of the lawfull undoub|ted power of all Chri&s;tian Ma|gistrates, Par|liaments, Sy|nods: and tha|king the chiefe pillars, where|with its Patrons would &s;upport it.</HI> And, <HI>A fre&s;h di&s;covery of &s;ome prodigious New wandering-bla|zing &s;tarres and firebrands, &amp;c.</HI></NOTE> Books of his making, again&s;t their way.</P>
<P><PB N="48" REF="32">The words forecited containe three things. 1. A remedie a|gain&s;t &s;candalous &s;innes, and the &s;ufficiencie of that remedie, with|out Church-Di&s;cipline, and Cen&s;ures, &s;o eagerly contended for.</P>
<P N="2">2. An hope that the Parliament will con&s;ider of, and take care that Mini&s;ters may not (like Bi&s;hops formerly) be taken up with ruling, and governing.</P>
<P N="3">3. A rea&s;on of that hope, becau&s;e preaching, and in&s;tructing is work enough to engro&s;&s;e their time and thoughts.</P>
<P N="1">1. For the fir&s;t, the Remedy pre&s;cribed again&s;t &s;candalous &s;innes.</P>
<P><HI>If our A&s;&s;embly and Mini&s;ters will but diligently preach again&s;t that Catalogue of &s;candalous &s;innes, they have pre&s;ented to the Par|liament, and the Parliament pre&s;cribe &s;evere Temporall Laws, and puni&s;hments again&s;t them, and appoint good Civill Magi&s;trates to &s;ee them duely executed and inflicted.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>Here is le&s;&s;e required of the Mini&s;ters then is performed by ma|ny of them; more promi&s;ed concerning Lawes, Puni&s;hments, and Magi&s;trates then without pre&s;umption can be expected by any: For,</P>
<P N="1">1. For the Mini&s;ters, they preach again&s;t tho&s;e &s;candalous &s;innes contained in the Catalogue, and more too; and undertake to adde many more to the Catalogue then are expre&s;&s;ed; and the Honoura|ble Hou&s;e of Commons hath &s;ent an Order to the A&s;&s;embly of Di|vines to that purpo&s;e; and when a &s;upplement is made in obedi|ence thereto, there will be yet more found out not mentioned be|fore; &s;o that there will be &s;till new matter for addition, unle&s;&s;e there be a re&s;erve <GAP DESC="foreign">, of remaining particulars, to be added when they are di&s;covered, and &s;ome cautionary Order made that the Mini&s;ter may not be put upon this hard Dilemma, either to admini&s;ter to any again&s;t his judgement and con&s;cience, or to &s;u&s;pend his owne act of admini&s;tration with hazard to him&s;elfe, either for his per&s;on, or e&s;tate; which will be a greater inconve|nience then any worthy Communicant can &s;uffer, if he be upon the Mini&s;ters mi&s;take unworthily denied his right to Gods Ordinance for one turne onely; (for before the next celebration of the Sa|crament that which was doubtfull before may be fully cleared) and of this difference there be two Rea&s;ons.</P>
<P N="1"><PB N="49" REF="32">1. If the party came worthily prepared, and were refu&s;ed, he may have his part in the benefit of the Sacrament, as if he had actually received; for in &s;uch a ca&s;e God accepteth the will for the deed.</P>
<P N="2">2. If he have well prepared his heart for that holy Com|munion, he hath <HI>&s;o much charitie,</HI> as not to take offence at the &s;crupled con&s;cience of his Mini&s;ter, at lea&s;t not to de&s;ire that he &s;hould act any thing again&s;t it, becau&s;e of the coun&s;ell and deter|mination of the Apo&s;tle, <HI>What&s;oever is not of faith is &s;inne,</HI> Rom. 14.23. &s;o <HI>much humilitie,</HI> as to take the repul&s;e in a doubtfull ca&s;e with meekne&s;&s;e, and patience; &s;o <HI>much faith,</HI> as to beleeve that though his innocence for the pre&s;ent be under a cloud, <HI>the Lord will bring forth his righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e as light, and his indgement as the noone day,</HI> P&s;al. 37.6.</P>
<P><HI>Object.</HI> If it be &s;aid, the Mini&s;ter may pretend con&s;cience when it is perhaps &s;ome &s;ecret grudge, which tempts him to put upon his Pari&s;hioner an open di&s;grace.</P>
<P><HI>An&s;w.</HI> 1. I hope we &s;hall have &s;uch Mini&s;ters, &s;o well knowne by their faithfulne&s;&s;e in preaching, and con&s;cionablene&s;&s;e in walk|ing, that there will be no ground for &s;uch a &s;u&s;pition at &s;uch a time.</P>
<P N="2">2. Though the con&s;ciou&s;ne&s;&s;e of mine owne innocent intenti|ons might di&s;po&s;e me, for mine owne particular, to accept of any penaltie that a civill Sanction can impo&s;e, or that the arbitrary re|venge of the repul&s;ed partie would inflict, if I were convinced to have kept any from the Sacrament out of &s;pight, or a perver&s;e &s;pi|rit, or incon&s;iderate ra&s;hne&s;&s;e, without a cau&s;e which may be al|lowed to be ju&s;t before a competent Iudge; yet I hope, that all who have authoritie to determine any thing upon &s;uch mi&s;carriage of the Mini&s;ter, will thinke it &s;ufficient, and an&s;werable to exact ju&s;tice, that he who &s;hall abu&s;e his power or tran&s;gre&s;&s;e his dutie in &s;uch a ca&s;e, be dealt withall <HI>lege talionis;</HI> that is, that the Cla&s;&s;is for his undue &s;u&s;pen&s;ion &s;u&s;pend him from the Sacrament, which will bring &s;o much more reproach and &s;hame upon him, then he brought upon the party refu&s;ed, as the more prudence, pietie, and charitie was required in him, and the more notice is taken of him when he prevaricates in his office and function, and is puni&s;hed for it in &s;uch an open, and eminent manner.</P>
<PB N="48" REF="33">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<PB N="49" REF="33">
<GAP DESC="duplicate" EXTENT="1 page">
<P><PB N="50" REF="34"><HI>Object.</HI> But to leave it in the power of the Mini&s;ter, without an expre&s;&s;e and particular rule, to receive, or reject whom he plea&s;eth, is to put into his hands an unlimited arbitrary power, which on all hands, in all &s;orts of men is di&s;liked, and di&s;claimed.</P>
<P><HI>An&s;w.</HI> 1. It is not to be left to the Mini&s;ter alone, but to the Presbyterie.</P>
<P N="2">2. Though he act alone in the admini&s;tration it &s;elfe, he is not to be thought to act by an arbitrary power, when according to his duty (following the rule and his pre&s;ent light) he endevoureth to <HI>put difference betwixt the holy and profane, betwixt the uncleane and the cleane,</HI> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">zek. 22.26. and to pre&s;erve the holy Sacrament from contempt, that by a confu&s;ion of holy and unholy communicants, the <HI>Browni&s;ts</HI> &amp; others who act according to their principles, may not be hardened in their &s;eparation from our &s;acred A&s;&s;emblies.</P>
<P>And in &s;uch a ca&s;e for any private man to obtrude him&s;elfe upon the Mini&s;ter, is to act an arbitrary power upon him, yea an arbitrary tyranny if he &s;hould be authori&s;ed &s;o to doe: and &s;hould it be &s;o (out we have &s;o much experience of the piety, prudence, and indul|gence of the mo&s;t Honourable Hou&s;es, that we can never &s;u&s;pect any &s;uch pre&s;&s;ure to proceed from them) we can readily re&s;olve to act, or to forbeare what according to the Dictate of our con&s;ci|ences we conceive to be enjoyned, or prohibited by our great Ma|&s;ter, and to beare and &s;uffer what &s;hall be impo&s;ed on us by our Superiours under him, to whom we profe&s;&s;e our obedience is due, (being but private per&s;ons) either actively or pa&s;&s;ively, in what&s;o|ver they &s;hall determine concerning our per&s;ons, liberties, and e&s;tates.</P>
<P N="2">2. For that he &s;aith of <HI>&s;evere lawes and puni&s;hments</HI> to be con&s;ti|tuted, and <HI>good Magi&s;trates cho&s;en to &s;ee them actually executed,</HI> we confe&s;&s;e, if that could be generally, and perpetually expected, or but for the mo&s;t part, there were great hope of much helpe by &s;uch meanes again&s;t both the &s;candalous &s;innes contained in the Ca|talogue, and others of like kind; but &s;o long as Magi&s;trates are men of no purer mould, or metall, then Mini&s;ters are, and they pa&s;&s;e not through &s;o &s;evere an examination before they be admitted to their offices, as Mini&s;ters doe, nor have &s;o many obligations laid upon them for &s;inceritie, and integritie, as are laid upon Mini&s;ters; nor &s;o many eyes upon them to ob&s;erve their aberrations from a right
<PB N="51" REF="34">rule, as Mini&s;ters have; nor are like to have &s;o many mouthes open to reprove, or reproach them for, or &s;o many hands to re&s;traine them from mi&s;doing, or to puni&s;h them for it, (as mo&s;t Mini&s;ters in regard of their poverty, and impotencie, for the mo&s;t part may expect, which the Magi&s;trates their &s;uperiours in e&s;tate and autho|ritie need not &s;o much to feare) there is no rea&s;on I conceive, to take all power of cen&s;ure from the Presbyterie, for the Mini&s;ters &s;ake (for the Elders are not denied to be capable of juri&s;diction as they are members of the Civil State) and to put all upon the power, and vigilant and con&s;cionable execution of the Magi&s;trate.</P>
<P>And I doubt not but we may confidently averre, and the expe|rience of precedent and &s;ub&s;equent times will make it good, that it is &s;o farre from being &s;uperfluous that there be a concurrence of the Civill and Presbyteriall power for &s;uppre&s;&s;ion of &s;inne, that when both are imployed and improved with all prudence, dili|gence, and con&s;cience, to &s;uppre&s;&s;e the corruption of nature, and to prevent the &s;preading and prevailing of &s;candalous &s;ins, and when the &s;evere and &s;trict di&s;cipline of private Families, and of common Schooles is added unto them, there will be no cau&s;e, for all that, to &s;u&s;pect any pleona&s;me either of piety, or civilitie, among the people of the Kingdome.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="15" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XV. <HI>Of</HI> M^r. Colemans <HI>Interimi&s;ticall Magi&s;tracie.</HI></HEAD>
<P>NOr would that way which M^r. <HI>Coleman</HI> in his late (and yet perhaps too &s;oon put forth) <HI>Re-examination</HI> of the <HI>Examina|tion</HI> of his Sermon remembreth, be &s;o &s;ufficient of it &s;elfe,
<NOTE PLACE="marg">A Brotherly examination, reexamined. p. 1<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">.</NOTE> as that if it had prevailed, there would have been no need of a Presbytery to &s;upply the defect thereof, as he delivereth it: it is this,</P>
<P><HI>At the extirpation of the Prelacie, the Honourable Parliament would have e&s;tabli&s;hed Commi&s;&s;ioners in all Counties as an Interi|mi&s;ticall Magi&s;tracie, &amp;c.</HI> And this he &s;eemeth to conceive a better way of Church Government then that of the Presbyterie; &s;o much better, that if that had beene &s;et up, this would have beene &s;uperfluous.</P>
<P><PB N="52" REF="35">But in this hi&s;toricall pa&s;&s;age of his, there be many particulars which may come under correction; for fir&s;t, he &s;aith the <HI>Parlia|ment would have e&s;tabli&s;hed Commi&s;&s;ioners in all Counties, as an In|terimi&s;ticall Magi&s;tracie;</HI> And would the Parliament have done it? why did they not doe it? was any power greater then the Parliaments? any prudence more prevalent then theirs? Second|ly, <HI>Some,</HI> &s;aith he, <HI>(and who they were is enough knowne) fearing that if once it were there placed, they &s;hould never get it into their hands a|gaine, cryed it downe, and were a &s;top in the way of the intended worke.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>Who the&s;e <HI>&s;ome</HI> were, is <HI>not knowne enough,</HI> I thinke not at all; for it is like that a party, a &s;maller party, (for &s;o mu&s;t that be which is a contra-di&s;tinct to the Honourable Parliament) &s;hould oppo&s;e and overbeare the greater part, re&s;olutions being made by plurality of Votes? It is much more probable (to &s;ay no more) that &s;ome, and but &s;ome, <HI>would have &s;et up an Interimi&s;ticall Magi&s;tracie, and that the Honourable Parliament cryed it downe and were a &s;top in the way of the intended worke;</HI> my rea&s;on is,</P>
<P N="1">1. Becau&s;e they never made Ordinance, or Order for that In|terimi&s;ticall Magi&s;tracie.</P>
<P N="2">2. Becau&s;e they have done both for the Presbyteriall Govern|ment.</P>
<P N="3">3. Becau&s;e an
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Interim <HI>Ger|mania dece&s;ta|bibis farrago. Bez. re&s;pon&s;. ad Baldwin. p.</HI> 49. See <HI>Bucolz. Ind. Chron. p.</HI> 562. <HI>ad an.</HI> 1548. <HI>Epi&s;t. Brentii Calvine. p.</HI> 77.</NOTE> Interimi&s;ticall Temperament hath beene al|waies by the godly, and orthodoxe party attended with jealou&s;ie and feare, and hath beene by them as much hated, as feared.</P>
<P N="4">4. Becau&s;e that Interimi&s;ticall Magi&s;tracie that was projected, was too like Prelacie to be liked (by &s;uch as de&s;ired a thorow Re|formation;) and that in three things e&s;pecially.</P>
<P N="1">1. In that it had no warrant in the word of God.</P>
<P N="2">2. That it would &s;hrinke up the power into a few hands, which &s;hould be communicated to many, as the Prelacie did.</P>
<P N="3">3. In that it was contrary to the example of all the truly refor|med Churches in the Chri&s;tian world.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="16" TYPE="section">
<PB N="53" REF="35">
<HEAD>SECT. XVI. <HI>The Objection of eager conte&s;tation for Church Di&s;ci|pline, and Cen&s;ures an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P>HAving done with M^r. <HI>Colemans Interim,</HI> (which came in as a parenthe&s;is to the Di&s;cour&s;e we were in, though it be per|tinent to it) I returne to M^r. <HI>Saltm.</HI> his exception, taken out of M^r. <HI>Prinnes Vindication,</HI> where he aggravates the matter again&s;t the Presbyterie, in that, though by the &s;ufficiencie of other Reme|dies it be needle&s;&s;e, (&s;o it hath beene &s;aid, and thereto we have re|plied) it is <HI>yet very eagerly contended for.</HI></P>
<P>The An&s;wer is, if he meant it concerning admi&s;&s;ion to, or re|jection from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, (which is that which hath beene mo&s;t agitated betwixt him and &s;ome of our Tribe) the conte&s;tation on the Mini&s;ters part is but for the libertie of their con&s;cience, the puritie of Gods Ordinance, the preventing of Scandall, which cau&s;eth and confirmeth Schi&s;me; and in &s;uch ca&s;es it becomes them not to be remi&s;&s;e, or to manage &s;uch a Cau&s;e with a Laodicean luke warmene&s;&s;e, but with &s;ervencie of &s;pirit; and yet I doubt not, but their zeale therein, for the chiefe&s;t of them, is, and will be guided with knowledge, and both tempered with humility, mode&s;ty, and meekne&s;&s;e of &s;pirit.</P>
<P>And that it hath none affinitie with an affectation of power, or liberty to reject men from the Sacrament at their plea&s;ure, I be|leeve (becau&s;e I am confident it is the mind of mo&s;t of tho&s;e Mini|&s;ters who are competently qualified with knowledge, and grace for their holy function) that it is matter of great griefe of heart unto them to have any occa&s;ion of &s;ending any of their Congrega|tions &s;ad from the Sacrament, or (as it may be likely to prove in mo&s;t ca&s;es) with wrath, and heart-burning again&s;t them&s;elves. For my part I ever tooke it for one of the great aggrievances which many godly Mini&s;ters (who were conformi&s;ts in the ge&s;ture of re|ceiving the Lords Supper) &s;uffered under the domination of the Bi&s;hops, that they put it upon them to put &s;uch from the Sacra|ment as out of &s;cruple of con&s;cience dur&s;t not kneele at the receit of it; and that &s;uch were threatned with &s;u&s;pen&s;ion (and &s;ome
<PB N="54" REF="36">actually &s;u&s;pended from the Mini&s;tery) as admitted Communi|cants either &s;tanding, or &s;itting, though never &s;o well in&s;tructed and well affected in matter of Religion, and never &s;o religious in life and conver&s;ation; and if I might make mine owne choice, I had rather &s;ubmit my &s;elfe to the meane&s;t man within my Pa&s;torall charge, in the mo&s;t &s;ervile offices belonging to his per&s;on, for a weeke together, then for one time onely returne him from the Lords Table, as unworthy to be admitted to partake of the provi|&s;ion thereof; or as
<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Coenam proximo die dominico &s;innus celebra|turi. Hinc cogi|ta quibus an|gu&s;tiis nunc constringar; utinon me ab|&s;ente po&s;&s;et cele|brari, bac con|ditione, ut ad vos u&s;que vel manibus repta|rem.</HI> Calvin. Epi&s;t. Farello, data Calend. Septemb. 1546. Ep. p. 64. in fol. excu&s;. Genev. anno 1575.</NOTE> <HI>Calvin</HI> once &s;aid on the like occa&s;ion, I had ra|ther ab&s;ent my &s;elfe from the Sacrament for that turne, when there is cau&s;e to turne any from the Sacrament, though I went away &s;omewhither upon mine hands, then to make any di&s;tingui&s;hing di&s;turbance in the celebration of the Supper. And if I know mine owne heart in this point, I thinke it would be as great a trouble to me to be an agent, as to any man to be a patient in &s;uch a repul&s;e; and as great a joy if any were able to cleare it unto my con&s;cience, that no part of that Government ought to be committed to my charge, which I ever apprehended as a burden, (and that an heavy one) rather then a priviledge.</P>
<P>Secondly, for <HI>the hope that he hath that the Parliament will con|&s;ider of, and take care that our Mini&s;ters, (like the Bi&s;hops formerly) may not be taken up too much with ruling and governing.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>I hope &s;o too, and I have more then hope al&s;o; for I am well a&s;|&s;ured the Parliament is &s;o wi&s;e, that their Reformation will have &s;o much of the &s;pirit of &s;ound judgement, &s;o little of pangs of ex|ce&s;&s;ive antipathy, that they will not runne &s;o farre from one ex|treme, as to arrive at the other. There is a golden medium be|twixt &s;o much as the Bi&s;hops had, and none at all, as &s;ome would now have it.</P>
<P>Thirdly, for the <HI>Rea&s;on</HI> of that hope, it is becau&s;e <HI>preaching and in&s;tructing is worke enough wholly to engro&s;&s;e their time, and thoughts.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>Yet not &s;o <HI>wholly,</HI> but that there may be a competent time al|lowed for a&s;&s;i&s;tance in Di&s;cipline; there have beene many Di&s;ci|plinarians who have beene frequent Preachers, and great Writers al&s;o; as <HI>Calviu, Beza, Moulin,</HI> and divers others; and there are
<PB N="55" REF="36">many Divines at this pre&s;ent, who be&s;tow many howres daily at the debates, and other bu&s;ine&s;&s;e of the A&s;&s;embly at <HI>We&s;tmin&s;ter,</HI> and yet are not wanting to their Pulpits on the Sabbath, and who preach many times on the weeke dayes be&s;ides; and (in mode&s;ty to omit the account of mine owne time, &s;tudies and taskes for a|bove fourtie yeares together, and I beleeve divers of my Brethren have much to &s;ay for them&s;elves to the &s;ame purpo&s;e) I &s;hall in|&s;tance onely in the great abilities, and diligence of my very learned and religious friend, and Brother, D^r. <HI>Hoyle,</HI> who had occa&s;ion by way of Apologie, to plead for him&s;elfe, before his <HI>Rejoynder</HI> to the le&s;uite <HI>Malone,</HI> in this manner.</P>
<P><HI>The Booke indeed is pre&s;ented to the world farre later then my ex|pectation; which hath beene ready, as it now comes forth, the&s;e many yeares: But the Pre&s;&s;e was &s;till employed, and occupied with other things, by them that had command. He that herein imputes &s;loth or negligence to me, knows me not. For if I &s;hould give but an Indiculus of my &s;tudies,</HI> Et vacet annales no&s;trorum audire laborum; <HI>I might make the Je&s;uite, and a thou&s;and more a&s;hamed of their idlene&s;&s;e. Farre be it from me to brag and bea&s;t, who have ever abhorred all &s;hadow of vain-glory: remembring</HI> Solomons <HI>words,</HI> Let another man prai&s;e thee and not thine owne mouth, <HI>Prov.</HI> 27. <HI>And therefore leaving it to the di&s;po&s;er, and pro&s;perer of all mine endevours, I content, and fea&s;t my &s;elfe with the &s;uffrage of my con&s;cience, as de&s;irous for mine owne part to have &s;omething more then the world knows. Though I might appeale (if need were) to the grand Reader of</HI> Europe, <HI>as be&s;t acquainted from the very fir&s;t with me, and my &s;tudies. But what the world knows give me leave to &s;peake: that it may ap|peare that this worke could never fall into fuller hands, or to a man more imployed; who could allot no more time to it then what mu&s;t be gained</HI> &s;ucci&s;ivis horis.
<NOTE PLACE="marg">Pro Archia.</NOTE> <HI>Never could</HI> Tully <HI>&s;peake more truly of his ab&s;tracted life, and importunate lucubrations. I expounded the whole Bible through in the Colledge, in dayly Lectures, and in the chiefe&s;t bookes ordinarily a ver&s;e a day; we need not</HI> Origens <GAP DESC="foreign">: <HI>this work we held almo&s;t fifteene yeares. A few yeares before this was ended I beganne likewi&s;e the &s;econd Expo&s;ition of the whole Bible in the Church: and within tenne yeares have ended all the New Te&s;ta|ment, excepting one booke and a piece, all the Prophets, all</HI> Solomon <HI>and</HI> Iob; <HI>&s;o that my An&s;wer to the Ie&s;uite did in part concurre with
<PB N="56" REF="37">both the&s;e labours. What preaching, what expounding, this is my con|&s;tant practi&s;e, (neither &s;ickne&s;&s;e nor any thing el&s;e withdrawing me) thrice every Sabbath for the farre greater part of the yeare; once e|very Holy-day, often twice, be&s;ides many other extraordinary &s;udden occa&s;ions. Adde to the&s;e my weekely Lectures (as Profe&s;&s;or) in the Controver&s;ies, and my An&s;wers to all</HI> Bellarmine <HI>in word and wri|ting. Where in above eight yeares I fini&s;hed his Tome of the &s;even Sacraments, for there we beganne; his la&s;t Tome in &s;ixe yeares, and now &s;undry years in the Tome or Tomes remaining. What breathing time had I in all the&s;e imployments? or how could this worke be com|mitted to fuller hands?</HI></P>
<P>And though there be but a few who are &s;o eminent in parts, and in performances &s;o laborious, yet the mo&s;t of tho&s;e Mini&s;ters who are to beare a part in the Di&s;cipline of the Church, either are, or (if the <HI>Refomation</HI> proceed) will be &s;o well qualified, that they may give due attendance upon preaching, and yet have competent time for other duties, whereto as men, as Chri&s;tians, or as Mini|&s;ters, whether in the Church, or Con&s;i&s;tory, they are engaged. And M^r. <HI>Pr.</HI> knowes by experience in his owne profe&s;&s;ion, that many are able (being habituated in Book-learning, and Law-ca&s;es, and pleading of Cau&s;es) upon a little warning to &s;peake more, and better to the purpo&s;e, then many others by long preparation; and he him&s;elfe, we &s;ee, hath time enough, not onely to plead his Clients cau&s;es, but to write &s;o many books, as were they bound up together, would make divers very competent Volumes: and while a good Mini&s;ter, (and I hope we &s;hall have more &s;tore of &s;uch then in former times) is exerci&s;ed in Church Government, he is not quite out of office for preaching, and in&s;tructing, for he may have ju&s;t occa&s;ion and faire opportunitie, mini&s;terially to ad|moni&s;h tho&s;e that are convened, either as parties to be cen|&s;ured, or as witne&s;&s;es to be examined, in the Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall Con|&s;i&s;torie.</P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="17" TYPE="section">
<PB N="57" REF="37">
<HEAD>SECT. XVII. <HI>The Objection of in efficacie for holine&s;&s;e of life in &s;uch as live under the Pre&s;bytery an&s;wered.</HI></HEAD>
<P>THe &s;econd particular he produceth, in M^r. <HI>Prinnes</HI> name, a|gain&s;t the Presbytery is,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">M. <HI>Salim.</HI> in his <HI>opening</HI> of <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> the <HI>Vindication.</HI> p. 23. 24. and in the <HI>Vindica|tion</HI> it &s;elf. p. 57.</NOTE> <HI>the want of efficacie in it, where it is e&s;tabli&s;hed;</HI> which he exemplifieth by in&s;tances in &s;everall refor|med Churches el&s;ewhere, and comparing <HI>England</HI> with them, he &s;aith, <HI>That the practicall power of godline&s;&s;e is generally more eminently vi&s;ible in the lives of the generalitie of the people, more &s;trict, pious, le&s;&s;e &s;candalous, and licentious in our Engli&s;h Congre|gations, where there hath beene powerfull preaching without the pra|cti&s;e of excommunication, or &s;u&s;pen&s;ion from the Sacrament, then in the reformed Churches of France, Germany, Denmarke, or Scot|land; for which I appeale</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>to all Travellours, and Inde|pendent Mini&s;ters, who have lived in the Netherlands, who will, and mu&s;t acknowledge, that in the &s;anctification of the Lords Day, &s;trict|ne&s;&s;e of life, and exemplarine&s;&s;e of conver&s;ation, our Engli&s;h Mini|&s;ters and Prote&s;tants excell all others.</HI></P>
<P>The&s;e be M^r. <HI>Pr.</HI> his words, upon which M^r. <HI>Saltm.</HI> maketh this inference, <HI>viz. That the Vindication, though it pretend in the generall face of it to be for the Pre&s;byterie, yet it is cleare, that in a&s;per&s;ing the Government in all tho&s;e reformed Kingdomes, where the practi&s;e and power of it hath beene, it &s;ecretly wounds the glory of it in the opinion of the world; and though it pull not downe the Govern|ment quite, yet it Weakens the po&s;ts, or judgements of men, on which it &s;tands.</HI></P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. By what I have read of M^r. <HI>Prinnes</HI> writings, what I have ob&s;erved of him my &s;elfe, and received by report of &s;uch as are be&s;t acquainted with his mind, and wayes, I conceive him to be &s;o true an <HI>I&s;raelite,</HI> without all guile, that he will not pretend one thing, when he intends another.</P>
<P N="2">2. For the A&s;&s;ertion it &s;elfe, there be two things to be con|&s;idered.</P>
<P N="1">1. <HI>Whether it be true or no.</HI></P>
<P N="2"><PB N="58" REF="38">2. <HI>If &s;o, what may be the rea&s;on of it, that alleadged, or &s;ome other.</HI></P>
<P>For the fir&s;t: <HI>Whether the A&s;&s;ertion be true or no?</HI></P>
<P>The re&s;olution of this Que&s;tion mu&s;t be made with difference of times; for Countreys, as well as particular per&s;ons, have their variations in Religion, not onely for profe&s;&s;ion of the faith, but for practi&s;e of holine&s;&s;e: as in King <HI>James</HI> his dayes, upon the Declara|tion and libertie granted upon the Sunday, (that is the name in the Declaration, and it is the fitte&s;t name for a licence of profanene&s;&s;e) for &s;ports and pa&s;times, renewed by the King that now is, the peo|ple of <HI>England</HI> were more loo&s;e and licentious on that day, then now they are, upon the burning of that Book, and an Ordinance of Parliament &s;et out for the more holy ob&s;ervation of the Sabbath. The Application of this di&s;tinction may re&s;olve the ob&s;ervation &s;e|verall waies; and we may &s;ay, that &s;ometimes one people or Na|tion, &s;ometimes another, (and the &s;ame people at one time more then at another) may be more conformable in practi&s;e to the principles of piety.</P>
<P>And as there is a di&s;tinction of times, &s;o of places; &s;ome are more, &s;ome le&s;&s;e civilized; as in <HI>Scotland
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Abbot <HI>Geogr.</HI> P. 207, 208.</NOTE> the Low-land is the mo&s;t civill part of the Realme, where Religion is mo&s;t orderly e&s;tabli&s;hed;</HI> but the other part called <HI>the Highland, which lyeth further to the North, or bendeth towards Ireland, is more rude and &s;avage, and &s;o further from conformitie in Religion.</HI></P>
<P>And there may be great difference al&s;o in re&s;pect of Preachers, and Sermons, wherewith &s;ome Countries are much better fur|ni&s;hed then others; and thence are not onely more Civill, but more Religious al&s;o; for civilitie and religion mutually conduce to the helpe of each other; Civilitie makes men more capable of Re|ligion, Religion makes them more conformable to Civilitie; this is ob&s;ervable in many parts of <HI>Wales,</HI> and <HI>Cornwall,</HI> which are but poorely &s;tored with well gifted Preachers, in compari&s;on of <HI>Lon|don,</HI> and many other places of this Kingdome.</P>
<P>And whereas it is &s;aid, that in the reformed Churches, as in the Churches of <HI>France, Germany, Denmarke,</HI> and <HI>Scotland,</HI> the peo|ple be <HI>le&s;&s;e &s;trict and pious, more licentious and &s;candalous then in England, where there hath beene powerfull preaching, without the practi&s;e of excommunication, and &s;u&s;pen&s;ion from the Sacrament.</HI>
<PB N="59" REF="38">It is to be con&s;idered that in <HI>England</HI> both &s;u&s;pen&s;ion from the Sa|crament, and excommuication have beene in u&s;e, before the depo|&s;ition of the Prelates and Service Book; and by this Argument we might plead for the retaining of the <HI>Engli&s;h Prelacie</HI> and <HI>Litur|gie,</HI> and again&s;t the e&s;tabli&s;hment of the <HI>Pre&s;bytery</HI> and <HI>Directory,</HI> both which M^r. <HI>Priune</HI> hath in a better opinion and reputation, then the Government and Book which were their predece&s;&s;ors in the <HI>Engli&s;h</HI> Church; and if we &s;uppo&s;e there is powerfull preach|ing with the one Government, and not with the other, we &s;hould a&s;cribe the prelation to that which is principall and pre&s;ent, <HI>viz.</HI> the preaching of the word, and not ca&s;t a reproach upon that which is acce&s;&s;ory (though in a &s;econdary degree nece&s;&s;ary al&s;o) becau&s;e it is ab&s;ent, &s;ince the <HI>want</HI> thereof can contribute nothing to &s;piri|tuall proficiencie, but the <HI>pre&s;ence</HI> and exerci&s;e of it, very much.</P>
<P N="2">2. <HI>Que&s;tion: If the precedent a&s;&s;ertion be true, what may be the rea&s;on?</HI></P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>If there be le&s;&s;e &s;trictne&s;&s;e in tho&s;e forementioned Churches, then in the Church of <HI>England,</HI> it cannot be charged upon the Pre&s;|byterian Di&s;cipline, or Government; for there is nothing in that which tends to licentiou&s;ne&s;&s;e, and &s;candall, but to the quite con|trary; and I can &s;peake it by experience, that the formall admo|nition of inordinate walkers by the Mini&s;ter, and Churchwardens, without any further proceeding in Di&s;cipline, hath kept many in more awe, and better order, then without it they would have beene; &s;o that where the Word is powerfully preached, and that Di&s;cipline duely, and piou&s;ly, and impartially admini&s;tred, it is not onely very effectuall for pre&s;ervation of the profe&s;&s;ion of Chri&s;ti|anitie from Here&s;ie, and Schi&s;me, (as
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">See the Pre|face to the new Annotations of the Bible. p. 1.</NOTE> of the Church of <HI>Scotland</HI> is ob&s;erved), but for promotion of the practi&s;e of piety, and pre|vention of loo&s;ene&s;&s;e of life, as of the Church of <HI>Geneva</HI> is noted, and acknowledged by <HI>Bodine,</HI> a Papi&s;t, in the &s;ixth Chapter of his Booke, <HI>de meth, hi&s;toriae.</HI></P>
<P>And if any where the people living under this Government be more generally profane, then where it is not, it may, or rather mu&s;t, be referred, 1. To &s;ome other rea&s;on, as in <HI>Germany</HI> the &s;inne of Drunkenne&s;&s;e prevaileth &s;o much, that this reproachfull Proverbe pa&s;&s;eth upon them,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Heylin<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> G<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">|ogr. p. 256.</NOTE> <HI>Germanorum vivere e&s;t bibere: The Germans
<PB N="60" REF="39">life is drownd in his liquor:</HI> whence it is that they abound in Brewers,
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Ibid. p. 260.</NOTE> having 777. of that Trade, 40. Bakers, one Lawyer, one Phy&s;ician, in the Towne of <HI>Hamburge;</HI> and where they are habitually addicted to that vice, they are little di&s;po&s;ed to the power of godline&s;&s;e.</P>
<P N="2">2. In &s;ome Countries where the Presbyterie is e&s;tabli&s;hed, the Mini&s;ters are in meane e&s;timation, becau&s;e they are reduced to a de&s;picable povertie, their revenues <HI>being kept from them, by the No|bility and Gentry, and they tucked up to
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">The large Declaration of the late Tu|mults in <HI>Scot|land.</HI> p. 7, 8.</NOTE> &s;ome poor pittance, either by way of &s;tipendiary benevolence, or &s;ome other meane allowance, unwor|thy of the Mini&s;ters of the Go&s;pel; and which expo&s;eth them to all manner of contempt, and a ba&s;e dependance upon their patrons:</HI> Now where the Mini&s;ters of the Go&s;pel are de&s;pi&s;ed, the Go&s;pel is le&s;&s;e honoured, and the people le&s;&s;e affected with any doctrine, or dutie of piety, and con&s;cience.</P>
<P N="3">3. Some reformed Churches, though they admit of the Pre&s;|byterian Government, are the le&s;&s;e reformed, becau&s;e they are in their habitation, and conver&s;ation, mingled with profane Papi&s;ts, as in <HI>France.</HI></P>
<P N="4">4. And la&s;tly, the mo&s;t reformed Churches in forraine parts are, and long have beene much unreformed in the Doctrine of the Sab|bath; which few foraine Divines teach &s;o &s;oundly, few foraine Chri&s;tians ob&s;erve &s;o con&s;cientiou&s;ly, as doe the Divines and Chri|&s;tians of the Church of <HI>England;</HI> and it is experimentally proved, that according to mens care, or neglect of the &s;anctification of the Sabbath, they are more or le&s;&s;e pious, or profane, &s;trict, or licen|tious in their conver&s;ations.</P>
<P>It is not then the ab&s;ence of Di&s;cipline, where the Word is powerfully preached, and the Sabbath religiou&s;ly ob&s;erved, that furthereth any thing to holine&s;&s;e of life, but the want of the&s;e (which &s;hould be joyned with Di&s;cipline) which makes it le&s;&s;e effectuall for popular reformation; but where all are joyned toge|ther, there not onely the ordinary behaviour of men is more order|ly, but divers are in their lives &s;o &s;trict, &s;o exact, that, as a
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">The <HI>E&s;&s;ayes</HI> of the Lord <HI><GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">erulam.</HI> E&s;&s;ay <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">2. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 span">.</NOTE> witty Authour makes the re&s;emblance, they are <HI>like a ver&s;e wherein every &s;yllable is mea&s;ured.</HI></P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="18" TYPE="section">
<PB N="61" REF="39">
<HEAD>SECT. XVIII. <HI>Shewing what might be retorted upon the Antipre&s;byteriall party, but concluding for &V;nitie and Peace, with allegation of</HI> M^r. Burroughs <HI>his propo&s;itions of reconciliation and accord: and &s;ome other particulars tending thereto.</HI></HEAD>
<P>HItherto I have for the mo&s;t part held out the Buckler of Apo|logie again&s;t the exceptions taken at the pre&s;ent &s;etting up of the Presbyteriall Government.</P>
<P>I could now take up the Sword of A&s;&s;ault, and put M^r. <HI>Saltm.</HI> to be Defendent, while I bring in Objections again&s;t the ha&s;te which &s;ome of his party make in &s;etting up their Congregationall way, not onely without Authoritie, but again&s;t it. For the Pre&s;|byterian Di&s;cipline hath beene by Authoritie of Parliament in <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">|bate, fir&s;t in the A&s;&s;embly, afterward in both Hou&s;es of Parliament; and &s;o farre as it is agreeable <HI>to the word of God, and the example of the be&s;t reformed Churches,</HI> covenanted to be e&s;tabli&s;hed in this Kingdome, and in the Kingdome of <HI>Ireland,</HI> contrary to the Con|gregationall and Independent platform; and many parts of it have beene &s;et forth already by Ordinance, or Order of the Honourable Hou&s;es; yet the Presbyterians take not upon them to be active in the choice of Elders, or in any other part of Eccle&s;ia&s;ticall power, but humbly wait for further warrant from the Parliament, to pro|ceed in the work; while many of our di&s;&s;enting Brethren, of their owne accord, and without the command, or con&s;ent, and again&s;t the Vote of the Civill State, gather Churches, or continue the Go|vernment of tho&s;e they have gathered, according to the modell of their owne choo&s;ing, notwith&s;tanding the joynt admonition of many eminent Mini&s;ters, as well Independent as Presbyteriall, to forbeare, untill what was, and yet is, in part, under deliberation, came to accompli&s;hment: and
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">M. <HI>S. Eaton</HI> Teacher, and <HI>Tim. Taylor,</HI> Pa&s;tour of the Church of <HI>Duckenfield</HI> in <HI>Che&s;hire,</HI> in their late de|fence of &s;undry po&s;itions and Scriptures to ju&s;tifie the Congrega|tionall way.</NOTE> &s;ome take the boldne&s;&s;e pub|likely, and in print, to avow them&s;elves as Mini&s;ters under the name, and office of <HI>Teachers</HI> and <HI>Pa&s;tors</HI> of new con&s;tituted Churches, and publikely to a&s;&s;ert their repugnant principles, and practi&s;es, in oppo&s;ition to that which the Honourable Hou&s;es of
<PB N="62" REF="40">Parliament have partly authori&s;ed already, by their Civill Sanction, and engaged them&s;elves further to authori&s;e, throughout the Churches of both Kingdomes, as God &s;hall be plea&s;ed to make way for a thorow reformation, by reducing the &s;everall Countries under the command of the King and Parliament.</P>
<P>But I had rather (then recriminate) friendly and kindly clo&s;e with my yet di&s;&s;enting Brother; and therefore heartily commend it to his Chri&s;tian con&s;ideration, <HI>to &s;tudy the reconciliation, and union of all the godly party,</HI> (as M^r. <HI>Burroughs</HI> hath lately done) and not to proceed to di&s;cour&s;es which tend to make, or maintaine divi|&s;ion, or e&s;trangement, and alienation of affection betwixt them.</P>
<P><HI>To that purpo&s;e</HI> I &s;hall propo&s;e as a patterne of imitation to M^r. <HI>Saltm.</HI> and to all others who partake with him in his pre&s;ent Opi|nion, what he hath &s;et downe in the &s;eventh Chapter of his <HI>Ire|nicum</HI> in his owne words.</P>
<P>Fir&s;t,
<NOTE PLACE="marg">M^r. <HI>Burroughs</HI> his <HI>Irenieum.</HI> c. 7. p. 43, 44, 45.</NOTE> <HI>Tho&s;e in the Congregationall way acknowledge, that they <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> bound in con&s;cience to give account of their wayes to the Churches about them, or to any other who &s;hall require it; this not in an arbi|trary way, but as a dutie that they owe to God, and man.</HI></P>
<P>Secondly, <HI>They acknowledge that Synods of other Mini&s;ters, and Elders about them, are an Ordinance of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, for the help|ing the Church again&s;t errours, &s;chi&s;mes, and &s;candals.</HI></P>
<P>Thirdly, <HI>That the&s;e Synods may, by the power they have from Chri&s;t, admoni&s;h men or Churches in his Name, when they &s;ee evils continuing in, or growing upon the Church; and their admonitions carry with them the anthoritie of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
<P>Fourthly, <HI>As there &s;hall be cau&s;e, they may declare men or Chur|ches to be &s;ubverters of the faith; or otherwi&s;e, according to the na|ture of the offence, to &s;hame them before all the Churches about them.</HI></P>
<P>Fiftly, <HI>They may by a &s;olemne act, in the Name of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, refu&s;e any further communion with them, till they repent.</HI></P>
<P>Sixthly, <HI>They may declare, and that al&s;o in the Name of Chri&s;t, that the&s;e erring people, or Churches, are not to be received into fel|low&s;hip with any of the Churches of Chri&s;t, nor to have communion one with another, in the Ordinances of Chri&s;t: Now all this being done in Chri&s;ts Name, is this nothing to prevaile with con&s;cience?</HI></P>
<P><PB N="63" REF="40"><HI>If you &s;ay, private brethren may admoni&s;h, and declare in the Name of Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
<P><HI>This is more then if any private Brethren &s;hould do the &s;ame thing; for at Synod is a &s;olemne Ordinance of Chri&s;t, and the Elders are to be looked on as the officers of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t.</HI></P>
<P><HI>But our Brethren &s;ay, There is one meanes more in their way, then the Congregation all way hath, that is, if the &s;ixe former will not work, then Synods may deliver to Satan.</HI></P>
<P><HI>In this very thing lies the very knot of the Controver&s;ie, betweene the&s;e who are for the Pre&s;byteriall, and tho&s;e who are for the Congre|gationall way, in reference to the matter in hand, namely the meanes to reducing from, or keeping out errours and here&s;ies from the Church, in this lies the dividing bu&s;ine&s;&s;e: But I be&s;eech you con|&s;ider at what a punctum we divide here, and judge whether the cau&s;e of divi&s;ion in this thing be &s;o great, as there can be no helpe; and whe|ther, if an evill &s;pirit prevaile not among&s;t us, we may not joyne; For,</HI></P>
<P><HI>Fir&s;t, con&s;ider, what is there in this delivering to Satan? which is a &s;eventh thing which our Brethren thinke may hopefully prevaile with mens con&s;ciences, when the &s;ixe former cannot.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Yes, &s;ay they, for by this they are put out of the Kingdome of Chri&s;t, into the kingdome of Satan, and this will terrifie.</HI></P>
<P><HI>This putting out of Chri&s;ts Kingdome, mu&s;t be under&s;tood</HI> clave non errante; <HI>if the Synod judges right, not otherwi&s;e; yes, this is granted by all.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Then con&s;ider whether this be not done before, and that with an authoritie of Chri&s;t, by tho&s;e former &s;ixe things; for bereticall Con|gregations, or per&s;ons, are judged and declared in a &s;olemne Ordi|nance, by the officers of Chri&s;t, gathered together in his Name, to be &s;uch as have no right to any Church Ordinance, to have no commu|nion with any of the Churches of Chri&s;t. Now if this judgement be right, are not &s;uch per&s;ons, or Congregations put out of the Kingdome of Chri&s;t, and put under the power of Satan con&s;equently?</HI></P>
<P><HI>But thirdly. If &s;ome brethren ri&s;e to a &s;eventh degree, and others &s;tay at &s;ixe, which have yet &s;uch a power over con&s;cience, that if they prevaile not, the &s;eventh is no way likely to prevaile: why &s;hould not the Apo&s;tles rule quiet us all,</HI> Phil. 3.15, 16. <HI>Whereto we have already attained, let us walke by the &s;ame rule; if in any thing you be other|wi&s;e minded, God will reveale even this unto you; if we have attained
<PB N="64" REF="41">but to &s;ixe, and our Brethren have attained to &s;even, let us walke to|gether lovingly to the &s;ixe; if God &s;hall after reveale the &s;eventh (we will promi&s;e to pray and &s;tudy in the mean time) we &s;hall walke with them in that al&s;o: why mu&s;t it needs be now urged with violence, &s;o as to divide el&s;e? and although we hold not the &s;eventh, yet there is an ingredient in the &s;ixt, that hath in it the &s;trength of the &s;eventh; for wherein lies the &s;trength of the &s;eventh above the re&s;t? is it not in this, that it is the la&s;t meanes Chri&s;t hath appointed in his Church to work upon the heart? this con&s;ideration hath much terror it it; Now tho&s;e in the Congregationall way &s;ay, that this is fully in the &s;ixth, wherefore that is as terrible to their con&s;ciences, as the &s;eventh can be to the con&s;ciences of our brethren, and that upon the &s;ame ground.</HI></P>
<P>If &s;o, what is the difference (for this matter) more then that which hath beene betwixt many godly and Orthodoxe Divines about the divi&s;ion of the Lords Prayer, whether it containe 6. or 7. petitions, when tho&s;e that are for &s;ixe, have as much matter in tho&s;e &s;ixe, as tho&s;e that have &s;even; and tho&s;e that have &s;even, no more then is contained in the &s;ixe? for my part, if this be candidly, and cordially in point of Church Government delivered, and &s;o recei|ved, and profe&s;&s;ed by tho&s;e of his &s;ide, I hope &s;uch as are adver&s;aries unto both parties, &s;hall not long rejoyce, and pro&s;per by the advan|tage they make of our mutuall divi&s;ions.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="19" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XIX. <HI>Further grounds and hopes of</HI> union <HI>in the Churches of the Si&s;ter Kingdomes of</HI> England <HI>and</HI> Scotland, <HI>with An&s;wers to the Objections that are made again&s;t</HI> it.</HEAD>
<P>I Have the more hope of the Vnion fore-mentioned, becau&s;e if they (who in re&s;pect of the paucitie and noveltie of their party, compared with the Churches of the Presbyterian Government, throughout the Chri&s;tian World, for number and Seniority are not &s;o con&s;iderable as &s;ome conceive) will yeeld as farre <HI>as they ought,</HI> for a pacificall accord, their Presbyterian Brethren will as farre <HI>as they may</HI> (with &s;ecuritie to the truth, and re&s;ervation of the inte|re&s;t, and honour of the Reformed Churches) come downe to
<PB N="65" REF="41">them in &s;uch a Chri&s;tian accommodation, as is requi&s;ite for a con|clu&s;ion of peace.</P>
<P>My ground for this is that which I have ob&s;erved in the di&s;po|&s;ition of the Reverend, Religious, and prudent Commi&s;&s;ioners of the Church of <HI>Scotland;</HI> for though that Church be &s;uppo&s;ed, and cen&s;ured by &s;ome, as the mo&s;t rigid in exacting a&s;&s;ent to, and ob|&s;ervation of her rules, and cu&s;tomes, as if all mu&s;t yeeld to her, as the Standard of Di&s;cipline, and &s;he would yeeld to none, they have alwaies, in all their debates, and behaviour, even towards the di&s;|&s;enting Brethren, carried them&s;elves with a mo&s;t Chri&s;tian and Evangelicall &s;inceritie, and &s;weetne&s;&s;e of &s;pirit, and &s;ome of them have well witne&s;&s;ed to the world their hopes, de&s;ires, and ende|vours for peace, e&s;pecially with all the religious and faithfull Prea|chers, and Profe&s;&s;ours of the Church of <HI>England.</HI></P>
<P>For in&s;tance, one of them in his
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Mr. <HI>Gille&s;pie</HI> his <HI>Brotherly examination of &s;ome pa&s;&s;ages of</HI> M. C. <HI>his prin|ted Sermon.</HI> p. 33. This is repeated in his latter Booke called <HI>Nihi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> Re&s;pondes.</HI> p. 19.</NOTE> <HI>Brotherly examination of &s;ome pa&s;&s;ages in</HI> M^r. Colem. <HI>his Sermon,</HI> to this Que&s;tion, <HI>Where &s;hall the Independents and we meet?</HI> returneth this an&s;wer, <HI>In holding a Church Governmeut</HI> jure divino, <HI>that is, that the Pa&s;tors and El|ders ought to &s;u&s;pend, or excommunicate, according to the degree of the offence of &s;candalous &s;inners; and who can tell but the purging of the Church fro~ &s;candals, and the keeping of the Ordinances pure, when it &s;hall be actually &s;een to be the great worke endevoured on both &s;ides, may wake union betwixt us and the Independents more ea&s;ie then ma|ny imagine?</HI> and in his
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Ibid.</NOTE> latter booke (&s;aith he) <HI>we will never de|&s;paire of an union with &s;uch as are &s;ound in the faith, holy in life, and willing to a Church refining and &s;inne-cen&s;uring government, in the hands of Church Officers.</HI></P>
<P>And in an&s;wer to M^r. <HI>C. his relation of news of agreement betwixt Pre&s;byterians and Independents, Lutherans and Calvini&s;ts, Papi&s;ts and Prote&s;tants, Turks and Chri&s;tians; in holding that there is a Religion wherein men ought to walke,</HI> he &s;aith: <HI>No Sir, they mu&s;t be united upon the like termes, that is, you mu&s;t fir&s;t have Turks to be Chri&s;tians, Papi&s;ts to be Prote&s;tants, and then you mu&s;t have them as willing to purge the Church of &s;candals, and to keep the Ordinances pure, &amp;c.</HI> And after a few lines before repeated, quitting M^r. <HI>C.</HI> his geering report of newes, he replieth (but &s;oberly and &s;eriou&s;ly) <HI>Now will I tell you my news, the Pre&s;byterians and Independents are both equally intere&s;ted again&s;t the Era&s;tian Principles;</HI> and which is
<PB N="66" REF="42">more, for degree of a&s;&s;urance, and for more generall concurrence in truth and peace; not this Commi&s;&s;ioner, nor the&s;e Commi&s;|&s;ioners onely, but the whole Church of <HI>Scotland,</HI> is well prepared, and di&s;po&s;ed to a Chri&s;tian, and Brotherly compliance with the Church of <HI>England,</HI> in the way of reformation; for M^r. <HI>Coleman</HI> having objected <HI>that the Commi&s;&s;ioners of Scotland</HI> came not to the <HI>A&s;&s;embly at We&s;tmin&s;ter as Divines, by dispute and di&s;qui&s;ition to find out the truth, but at Iudges to cen&s;ure all different opinions as errours; for &s;o</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>come for nine Divines to</HI> Dort, Alexander <HI>to the Councel of</HI> Nice, Cyrill <HI>to</HI> Ephe&s;us; the Learned Commi&s;|&s;ioner an&s;wereth him thus: <HI>Is it not enough to &s;lander us, though he doe not for our &s;akes &s;lander tho&s;e worthy Divines that came to the Synod of</HI> Dort, Alexander <HI>al&s;o and</HI> Cyrill, <HI>prime witne&s;&s;es for the truth in their dayes? would no le&s;&s;e content him then to approve the Objections of the</HI> Arminians <HI>again&s;t the Synod at</HI> Dort, <HI>which I had mentioned,</HI> p. 33? <HI>but he gets not away &s;o: the &s;tronge&s;t in&s;tance which I had given he hath are once touched: it was concerning</HI> Paul <HI>and</HI> Barnabas <HI>who wore engaged (not in the behalfe of one Nation but of all the Churches of the Gentiles) again&s;t the impo&s;ition of the Mo|&s;aicall rites, and had &s;o declared them&s;elves at</HI> Antioch, <HI>before they came to</HI> Ieru&s;alem. <HI>Finally, whereas he doubts, though not of our willingne&s;&s;e to learne more, yet of our permi&s;&s;ion to receive more: That very paper fir&s;t given in by we (which I had cited, and unto which he makes this reply) did &s;peake not onely of our learning, but of the Church of</HI> Scotlands <HI>receiving:</HI> And <HI>which is more, there is an actuall experiment of it, the la&s;t generall A&s;&s;embly having or|dered the laying a&s;ide of &s;ome particular cu&s;tomes in that Church, and that for the neerer uniformitie with this Church of</HI> England, <HI>as was expre&s;&s;ed in their owne Letter to the Reverend A&s;&s;embly of Di|vines.</HI> And though they thought it nece&s;&s;ary to &s;hew their diffe|rent opinion in one point of the Directory, yet they entred their di&s;&s;ent without any di&s;affection to us of the A&s;&s;embly; I will give you their &s;en&s;e in their owne words, which are the&s;e:</P>
<P><HI>Onely we have thought it nece&s;&s;ary to declare, and make knowne, that the Clau&s;e in the Directory for the admini&s;tration of the Lords Supper, which appointeth the Table to be &s;o placed, that the Com|municants may orderly &s;it about it, or at it, is not to be interpreted as if in the judgement of our Kirks, it were indifferent for any of the
<PB N="67" REF="42">Communicants not to come to, and receive at the Table, or as if we did approve the di&s;tributing of the elements by the Mini&s;ter to each Communicant, and not by the Communicants among them&s;elves, in which particulars we &s;till conceive and beleeve the order and practi&s;e of our owne Kirke to be mo&s;t agreeable to the word of God, the ex|ample of our Lord Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, and the nature of that heavenly Fea&s;t and Table; neverthele&s;&s;e in other particulars we have re&s;olved, and doe agree to doe as you have de&s;ired us in your Letter:</HI> This was part of the Letter from the Generall A&s;&s;embly at <HI>Edenborough,</HI> &s;igned thus: <HI>Sub&s;cribed in the name of the Generall A&s;&s;embly by</HI> Mr. Robert Douglas <HI>Moderatour.</HI> Feb. 13. 1644.</P>
<P>Whereby we &s;ee they doe not for that difference of opinion take any offence, or &s;hew any di&s;like of their Brethren at <HI>We&s;t|min&s;ter,</HI> nor any di&s;ta&s;t at the re&s;t of the Directory for any parti|cular contained in it.</P>
<P>But yet for all this &s;ome are &s;o unwilling to beleeve there will be peace, (e&s;pecially in the point of Government of the Church) that they faine the Parliament and the A&s;&s;embly of Divines at irre|conciliable difference about it, the Divines requiring the &s;tampe of Divine right to be &s;et upon it, and the Parliament re&s;olute to yeeld no more authoritie for it, then a meere Civill Sanction can give unto it.</P>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>An&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P>To this we an&s;wer: 1. That the Divines doe not affirme the whole frame and fabrick of Church Government to be of Divine right, for it is made up of particulars of different kinds, <HI>viz. Sub|&s;tantials of Government,</HI> which have their warrant either by ordi|nance in his word, or direct inference from it, as that there mu&s;t be <HI>Church Officers,</HI> Pa&s;tors, and their Ordination, Elders, and Dea|cons, and <HI>Church Offices</HI> both of preaching, admini&s;tration of the Sacraments, and Government; <HI>Church cen&s;ures,</HI> admonition, &s;u|&s;pen&s;ion, excommunication; and <HI>accidentall,</HI> or <HI>circum&s;tantiall addi|tions,</HI> which are of prudentiall direction, and con&s;ideration, as <HI>for Pa&s;tors,</HI> when and in what manner they &s;hall be ordained; whether a Preacher &s;hould treat on a Text, or on &s;ome Theologicall Theme or Common place, when and how oft, and to how many at once the Sacraments &s;hould be admini&s;tred, how many a&s;&s;i&s;ting Elders &s;hould be in a Pari&s;h, and whether they &s;hould be cho&s;en and ad|mitted
<PB N="68" REF="43">to their office with impo&s;ition of hands, and continue in it for a yeare or two, or for terme of life; in what forme of words admonition, &s;u&s;pen&s;ion, or excommunication &s;hould be compri&s;ed and pronounced, with divers others of like &s;ort.</P>
<P>This di&s;tinction the Divines of the A&s;&s;embly make of the con|tents of the Directory for the publique wor&s;hip of God through|out the three Kingdomes, (and the &s;ame hath the like u&s;e in the Church Government de&s;ired) their words in the la&s;t lea&s;e of the Preface of the Directory are the&s;e: <HI>We have, after earne&s;t and fre|quent calling upon the Name of God, and after much con&s;ultation, not with fle&s;h and blood, but with the holy Word, re&s;olved to lay a&s;ide the former Leiturgy, with the many rites and Ceremonies for|merly u&s;ed in the wor&s;hip of God: and have agreed upon this following Directory for all the parts of publique wor&s;hip, at ordinary and ex|traordinary times.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Wherein our care hath beene to hold forth &s;uch things as are of Di|vine In&s;titution in every Ordinance; and other things we have en|devoured to &s;et forth according to the rules of Chri&s;tian prudence, agreeable to the generall Rules of the Word of God.</HI></P>
<P N="2">2. Though the Honourable Hou&s;es have not yet a&s;&s;erted the con&s;titution of the Church Government as ordained in or derived from, or as agreeable to the Word of God, becau&s;e, (as &s;ome ren|der the rea&s;on) it is not the manner of Law-makers to mingle mat|ter of Religion with their Civill Sanction; yet when they pre&s;ent it compleat in all the parts thereof, it may be they will at lea&s;t give intimation of the conformity of it to the Canonicall Scriptures according to the di&s;tinction of the parts before propo&s;ed; and it is not &s;o &s;trange and unu&s;uall (as &s;ome pretend) for Legi&s;lative au|thoritie to borrow a religious reputation for what they inact or ordaine from the Word of God, for we find in&s;tance thereof in the Statutes
<NOTE N="(a)">Concerning the Sacrament of the Lords Supper the words of In&s;titution are &s;et downe, and 15. places of Scripture quoted in the Marginewith letters of reference in the Text. <HI>Poult. Abridgm.</HI> p. 826.</NOTE> of the fir&s;t yeare of <HI>Edward</HI> the &s;ixth, c. 1.</P>
<P><NOTE N="(b)">The Statute of the fir&s;t of Q. <HI>Mery,</HI> c. 2. repealed as cau&s;ing a decay of the honour of God, and the di&s;com|&s;ort of the profe&s;&s;ours of the truth of Chri&s;ts Religion. Ibid. p. 1005.</NOTE> In the fir&s;t of <HI>Eliza.</HI> c. 2.</P>
<P><NOTE N="(c)">For as much as profane &s;wearing and cur&s;ing is forbidden by the Word of God. Ibid. p. 1403.</NOTE> In the 21. of K. <HI>James,</HI> c. 20.</P>
<P><PB N="69" REF="43"><NOTE N="(d)">Nothing more acceptable to God then the true and &s;incere &s;ervice and wor&s;hip of him according to his holy will, and that the holy keeping of the Lords Day is 2 principal part of the true &s;ervice of God. <HI>Ibid.</HI> p. 1427.</NOTE> In the fir&s;t of K. <HI>Charles.</HI> c. 1. &amp;</P>
<P><NOTE N="(e)">For as much as the Lords Day commonly called Sunday is much broken and profaned by Carryers, &amp;c. to the great di&s;honour of God, reproch of Religion, &amp;c. <HI>Ibid.</HI> p. 1434.</NOTE> In the third of K. <HI>James.</HI> c. 1.</P>
<P>La&s;tly, the pre&s;ent Parliament hath done the like already for &s;ome parts of the Reformation authori&s;ed, as for the <HI>Ordination</HI> of Mini&s;ters, which is a chiefe part of the Presbyteriall authoritie, of which they &s;ay,</P>
<P><NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">So in the Ordinance for Ordination ordered to be printed. <HI>Octo|ber</HI> 2. 1644. p. 2.</NOTE> Whereas it is manife&s;t by the Word of God, <HI>that no man ought to take upon him the office of a Mini&s;ter untill he be lawfully called and ordained thereunto;</HI> and that the worke of <HI>Ordination,</HI> that is to &s;ay, <HI>an outward &s;olemne &s;etting apart of per&s;ons for the office of the Mini&s;tery in the Church by Preaching Pre&s;byters, is an Ordinance of Chri&s;t,</HI> and is to be performed with all due <HI>care, wi&s;dome, gra|vitie,</HI> and <HI>&s;olemnity:</HI> It is ordained by the Lords and Commons, &amp;c.</P>
<P>And in their Ordinance for the Directory, <HI>Jan.</HI> 3. 1644. They beginne with the&s;e words, <HI>The Lords and Commons a&s;&s;embled in Parliament, taking into &s;erious con&s;ideration the manifold incenve|niences that have ri&s;en by the Booke of Common Prayer in this King|dome, and re&s;olving according to their Covenant to reforme Religion according to the Word of God, and the example of the be&s;t Reformed Churches, have con&s;ulted with the Reverend, Pious, and Learned Divines, called together to that purpo&s;e; and doe judge it nece&s;&s;ary that the &s;aid Booke of Common Prayer be aboli&s;hed, and the Directo|rie for the publique wor&s;hip of God, herein after mentioned, be e&s;ta|bli&s;hed, and ob&s;erved in all the Churches within this Kingdome, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P>If it be &s;aid, that Ordination and Wor&s;hip are u&s;ually di&s;tingui&s;hed from Power and Government, and that both of them have more expre&s;&s;e warrant from the word of God, then can be found in Scri|pture for the Presbyteriall Government.</P>
</DIV3>
<DIV3 TYPE="answer">
<HEAD>I Au&s;wer.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. That the que&s;tion is not now whether there be difference betwixt them, but whether there be &s;uch difference betwixt a Ci|vill
<PB N="70" REF="44">Sanction, and Divine ratification, that the one may not well be brought in with the other.</P>
<P N="2">2. That though there were much u&s;e made of the di&s;tinction of the <HI>key of order,</HI> and the <HI>key of power,</HI> or of Iuri&s;diction in the time of the Prelates, &s;o that they confined that wholly to the Clergie, principally to them&s;elves, while they &s;old, or tru&s;ted out the key of power, or of juri&s;diction to <HI>Vicars generall, Chancellours, Archdeacons, Commi&s;&s;aries,</HI> and <HI>rurall Deanes:</HI> yet is Ordination one of the principall parts of the Presbyteriall power; and if it be (as it is commonly taken) matter of power, to let into the Church by the Sacrament of Bapti&s;me, as indeed it is; and whom to ad|mit to, and whom to keep back from participation of the Sacra|ment of the Lords Supper, it is a degree of power farre above both, whom to ordaine to, or whom to debarre from the order of Presbyters: for,</P>
<P N="1">1. What&s;oever power or authoritie a Presbyter may claime by the word of God, is virtually included in his Ordination.</P>
<P N="2">2. They that have power to ordaine a Presbyter, have power, upon ju&s;t cau&s;e, to &s;ilence and &s;u&s;pend the execution of that power, and to &s;top his mouth, <HI>Tit.</HI> 1.11. if it be opened to broach here&s;ie, or bla&s;phemie, or if his conver&s;ation be vitious, and &s;candalous.</P>
<P N="3">3. The Covenant, for the generall heads of it, comprehendeth a perfect enumeration of the maine parts of the de&s;ired reformation, under the titles of <HI>Doctrine, Wor&s;hip, Di&s;cipline,</HI> and <HI>Government;</HI> but Ordination is not to be referred to Doctrine or Wor&s;hip, but to Di&s;cipline or Government; for the ordaining of Governours, and the exerci&s;e of Government, properly appertaine to the &s;ame To|pick or Cla&s;&s;is.</P>
<P N="4">4. Though Government and Wor&s;hip be di&s;tingui&s;hed be|twixt them&s;elves, yet both agree in this, that their generall grounds and rules are found in the word of God, and in that re&s;pect, the one may be &s;et forth in the Civill Sanction with a reli&s;h of, and re|ference to a religious con&s;titution, as well as the other.</P>
<P>But in ca&s;e they will not be plea&s;ed to expre&s;&s;e any Divine right, in any part of the Government, in their Civill Sanction, and will in a Parliamentary, and Legi&s;lative way, e&s;tabli&s;h that thing which really, and in it &s;elfe, is agreeable to the Word of God; though they doe not declare it to be the will of Ie&s;us Chri&s;t, (as is noted
<PB N="71" REF="44">before out of the learned Commi&s;&s;ioner of <HI>Scotland</HI> his
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">Sect. 8. p. 25.</NOTE> <HI>Brother|ly examination,</HI> and he hath the like in his
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">p. 32.</NOTE> <HI>Nihil Re&s;pondes</HI>) we mu&s;t be &s;atisfied.
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">p. 22.</NOTE></P>
</DIV3>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="20" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XX. <HI>An Appendix to the precedent examination, being an Apologeticall Narrative of the Petitions of the Common Councell of the Citie, and Mini&s;ters of</HI> London, <HI>pre&s;ented to both the Honourable Hou&s;es of Parliament the</HI> 19th <HI>and</HI> 20th <HI>dayes of</HI> Novem. 1645. <HI>with a Vindication of them, and the proceedings in them, from the &s;candalous a&s;per&s;ions of the weekely Pamphleters, e&s;pecially of him, who mi&s;cals him&s;elf by the name of</HI> the Moderate Intelligencer.</HEAD>
<P>BVt how&s;oever the hope of union hath gon on hitherto, &s;ince the Petitions of the Common Councell, and of the Mini&s;ters of the Citie, were pre&s;ented to the Parliament, there is great like|lyhood of a dangerous breach betwixt the Parliament and them, which will not ea&s;ily be cemented up to perfect accord.</P>
<P>So haply may &s;ome conceive, who know no more of the mat|ter then they are told by the <HI>Moderate Intelligencer,</HI> or by his Plagiatie the writer of <HI>the continuation of e&s;peciall and remarkable Pa&s;&s;ages,</HI> (who repeats his lying and &s;candalous Relation, word for word) in the&s;e termes: <HI>This day the Common Councell did pre&s;ent a Petition to the Commons Hou&s;e of Parliament, by divers Alder|men, and others of that Councell, which &s;eemed to complaine, or take ill the proceedings of the Parliament with the A&s;&s;embly, in the late bu&s;ine&s;&s;e pa&s;t concerning the election of Elders, &amp;c.</HI></P>
<P><HI>The Commons &s;ate long about the bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, and laid it much to heart, that any &s;uch thing &s;hould come from the Citie, and that they &s;hould lend an eare to any, that &s;hould in &s;o evill a way repre&s;ent things unto them; and of what dangerous con&s;equence it was, and gave them an an&s;wer to this effect.</HI></P>
<P><HI>That they did perceive that they had beene informed; and that they could not but lay it much to heart, that they, who had ever beene &s;o
<PB N="72" REF="45">ready to doe all good offices for the Kingdome, and goe with the Par|liament, &s;hould from any, but the Parliament, take a repre&s;entation of their proceedings; and intreated them, that herealter they would take &s;atisfaction from them&s;elves: Its true they did beleeve they meant well, and had a good meaning, and intention in it, but they were abu&s;ed. They had no &s;ooner given an&s;wer to this, but there came another from the Clergy, to the &s;ame effect, which was more &s;ad then the former, for they conceived this latter was an appeale from the Hou&s;es to the people, and of as dangerous a con&s;equence as could be imagined; and that it de&s;erved a high cen&s;ure: and withall they re|&s;olved, if that was the way intended, they would goe on with their De|claration, and quickly undeceive the people; and in the interim they referred it to the Committee of examinations, that the fir&s;t contrivers, and after fomenters of this bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, may be dealt with according to merit.</HI></P>
<P>This is a parcell of their weekly report, but principally his, who mi&s;cals him&s;elfe the <HI>Moderate Intelligencer,</HI> for he is neither <HI>In|telligent,</HI> writing what he under&s;tands not, nor <HI>Moderate,</HI> being pa&s;&s;ionately addicted to a partie, to flatter, either out of an erro|neous &s;ancie, fondly &s;et upon irregular novelties in opinion, and practice, or out of a covetous affection to the wages of iniquitie, the reward of flatterie or &s;lander, as the bad cau&s;e, whereto he hath engaged his Pen, hath need to be &s;erved with the one or the other, and in the latter he hath &s;hewed him&s;elfe this la&s;t weeke, a very <GAP DESC="foreign">, (that's the word in the Originall for a <HI>fal&s;e accu&s;er</HI>) 2 <HI>Tim.</HI> 3.3. a fal&s;e <HI>accu&s;er of the brethren,</HI> Revel. 12.10. not of <HI>bre|thren in evill,</HI> as <HI>Simeon</HI> and <HI>Levi,</HI> Gen. 49.5. but in good, in mo&s;t &s;incere, and zealous de&s;ires, and endeavours to be &s;erviceable to the Parliament, in pro&s;ecution of the great Cau&s;e that is in hand, the through reformation of Church and State.</P>
<P>Among whom there are many, who taken &s;ingle by them&s;elves, might in good manners have been entertained with termes which &s;avour more of reverence, then of contempt; but this three-far|thing News-monger takes upon him, as if he had beene authori&s;ed by the Parliament, to involve all the venerable Magi&s;trates, and prime men of power, and tru&s;t, in this Honourable Citie, and a very great number of the mo&s;t learned, laborious, and con&s;ciencious Mi|ni&s;ters of the Province of <HI>London,</HI> in an unfaithfull and undutifull
<PB N="73" REF="45">a&s;&s;ociation again&s;t the Parliament, for their joynt petitioning to the Parliament. And where lyeth the crime, that may make them ly|able to &s;o loud a clamour? was it for petitioning <HI>in generall,</HI> or for their petitioning <HI>in particular?</HI></P>
<P>If we con&s;ult with his &s;candalous paper, we &s;hall find that he layeth an heavie charge upon both: Fir&s;t for the <HI>generall,</HI> in the precedent page he u&s;hereth it in with an egregious calumny, in the&s;e words:
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">p. 203:</NOTE> <HI>Now let us come home, and looke about us, and &s;ee if while our Army is labouring to &s;ubdue the enemy, and end &s;trife, there is not new beginning by tho&s;e that Fame &s;aith have beene the cau&s;es of all the &s;trife; we did intreat them the la&s;t weeke they would let the Parliament alone, and waite, and not doubt they would &s;ee a good i&s;&s;ue, and good content; they need not feare, they may be kept a while from their de&s;ires, but in the end they will have content, if their owne earne&s;t pre&s;&s;ing for it, doe not hinder.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Now let us come home?</HI> It would be well Sir, if you would come home, and keepe at home, and take mea&s;ure of your owne parts, and &s;it clo&s;e to your Trade, and not ramble abroad, to bu&s;ie your &s;elfe in writing Intelligence of matters which are farre above the elevation of your Pole, or the comprehen&s;ion of your head-piece. But your zeale perhaps (&s;uch a zeale as the Apo&s;tle taxeth, which <HI>is without knowledge,</HI> Rom. 10.2. ju&s;t like a <HI>pre&s;&s;ing-iron</HI> which hath heat without light) &s;tirred you up to complaine of &s;ome trouble&s;ome &s;pirits, who, <HI>while the Army is labouring to end &s;trife, begin it anew;</HI> and they are &s;uch (&s;ay you) as <HI>Fame &s;aith have been the cau&s;es of all the &s;trife;</HI> and who be they? Fame &s;aith, the late Deputie of <HI>Ireland,</HI> and the little Drelate of <HI>Canterburie</HI> were prime cau&s;es of the Kingdomes, and the Churches di&s;turbance. And are they &s;ince their heads were cut off (as <HI>Herod</HI> thought of <HI>John Bapti&s;t,</HI> Mark 6.16.) rai&s;ed from the dead, to revive our divi&s;ions? Common Fame &s;aith, the <HI>Queene</HI> and her Faction, that have parted the King and the Parliament, <HI>Digby, Hopton, Goring, Greenvile,</HI> and other Military male-contents, have cau&s;ed, and doe &s;till continue the mo&s;t dangerous contentions, and convul&s;ions in <HI>England,</HI> as <HI>Moutro&s;&s;e</HI> and his party in <HI>Scotland; Ormond,</HI> and his barbarous and bloody Papi&s;ts in <HI>Ireland.</HI> But we mu&s;t looke for the&s;e make bates <HI>at home,</HI> and find out &s;uch as at pre&s;ent doe trou|ble our peace; and if we doe &s;o, Fame &s;aith, that they are &s;uch a|mong
<PB N="74" REF="46">us, as oppo&s;e the &s;ettling of an uniforme Government, and breake out communities into &s;everall Sects; &s;uch as &s;o divide the husband from the wife, the parents from the children, the ma&s;ter from the &s;ervants, that a zealous <HI>Io&s;hua</HI> cannot &s;ay, <HI>I and my hou&s;e will &s;erve the Lord,</HI> Io&s;h. 24.15. &s;ince his family is di&s;tracted, and &s;orted into &s;everall Congregations, and it may be al&s;o into hereti|call conventicles.</P>
<P>Fame &s;aith, that &s;uch factious journeymen as M^r. <HI>D.</HI> are pub|lique Incendiaries, and Trumpeters of Sedition, by taking all oc|ca&s;ions, making u&s;e of all advantages, ca&s;ting about for all manner of devices, to increa&s;e their divided partie, that they may be able to uphold a faction; and becau&s;e they cannot hope that their no|veltie and paucitie &s;hould be able to maintaine a publique conte&s;t again&s;t &s;o many both per&s;ons and Churches, as are engaged again&s;t their way, they make it their Ma&s;ter-piece, to leaven the mo&s;t con|&s;iderable Societies, Cities, Sea-Townes, Armies, but e&s;pecially the Parliament, with their Independent Principles, and practices; and either to get Independents into places of chiefe power and tru&s;t, or to &s;educe &s;uch as are eminent in dignitie, endowments, or autho|ritie, to their &s;ide; and if they cannot obtaine them, they plot how to di&s;place them; and if they cannot doe that, to render them le&s;&s;e &s;erviceable to the Publique, their way is to weaken their reputa|tion with reproaches, or cunningly to intimate &s;ome matter of &s;u|&s;pition touching their acts, or intentions; if they be of &s;uch inte|gritie as is of impregnable proofe again&s;t their obloquie, then they will, by way of compliance, worke out of them what they can, which may conduce to their de&s;igne; and if they can prevaile no further, they will at lea&s;t by an artificiall &s;weetne&s;&s;e of behaviour, by appearances of more then ordinary piety, by a pretended exte|nuation of difference of opinion, and practice, and by &s;uch in&s;inua|tions, &s;o becalme or becharme the &s;pirits of &s;ome Presbyterians of eminent parts, as to make them, if not favourable to their cau&s;e, yet &s;o that they may not appeare again&s;t them when they &s;hould, or but in a very remi&s;&s;e and moderate degree of oppo&s;ition. La&s;tly, (to returne to our <HI>Intelligencer</HI>) they &s;et up weekly Pamphleters, who are wholly of their &s;tampe, or fee them, or by &s;ome other ar|tifices worke upon them, to take all occa&s;ions to magnifie their par|tie, and to vilifie and calumniate tho&s;e that oppo&s;e them; and &s;o
<PB N="75" REF="46">they &s;ometimes hyperbolize <HI>a Shrub</HI> on that &s;ide into <HI>a Cedar,</HI> and di&s;parage tho&s;e, who under God are the chiefe pillars, and &s;uppor|ters of the publique welfare, as if they were of no more worth, or u&s;e, then Reeds &s;haken with the wind; and this is not the lea&s;t part of the Independent policy, to drive on their de&s;igne all over the Kingdome; for mo&s;t of the common people know little of the progre&s;&s;e of publique affaires, but by &s;uch <HI>Informers,</HI> and they furni&s;h them with weekly lies, to honour tho&s;e of their owne &s;ect, or &s;ects rather, (for they are many) and to ca&s;t reproaches on &s;uch as are &s;erious, and re&s;olute in all ju&s;t, and lawfull meanes of e&s;ta|bli&s;hing of truth, and re&s;toring of peace.</P>
<P>But it may be he meaneth by <HI>Fame,</HI> that report which he and his fellowes in loo&s;e &s;heets have di&s;per&s;ed abroad in City, and Countrey; and if &s;o, I &s;ay, <HI>Famae&s;t malum,</HI> his <HI>fame is infamous;</HI> notoriou&s;ly fal&s;e, as he applyeth it, <HI>viz.</HI> to tho&s;e who make ad|dre&s;&s;es to the Parliament by way of Petition. <HI>We did intreat</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>the la&s;t weeke they would let the Parliament alone, and wait, and no doubt they would &s;ee a good i&s;&s;ue, and good content.</HI></P>
<P><HI>We did intreat them to let the Parliament alone?</HI> We Sir, who be&s;ides your &s;elfe? and why you? and what meane you by letting the Parliament alone? doe you forbid the &s;ubject of <HI>England</HI> to petition the Parliament? if that be your meaning (as a man of <HI>Mo|derate Intelligence</HI> may ea&s;ily perceive it is) do you not mean they &s;hould be deprived of the mo&s;t undoubted Priviledge, and Libertie, which by the Law of <HI>Nature,</HI> and of <HI>Nations,</HI> is allowed all over the world? if the Parliament had beene of that mind, &s;ince their fir&s;t Se&s;&s;ion, they would not have tendred &s;o many Petitions to the King, nor have received &s;o many Petitions from all parts of the Kingdome; nor could they (but by the informations received in them) have knowne &s;o much of the di&s;temper of &s;everall Coun|ties, nor had &s;o ju&s;t grounds and cau&s;es as they had, for many of their <HI>Orders,</HI> and <HI>Ordinances,</HI> which were i&s;&s;ued out from that Ho|nourable Senate: and your &s;elfe &s;ay in the next page, that a part of the Parliaments An&s;wer to the Citie Petition was, that <HI>the Citi|zens were intreated hereafter that they would take &s;atisfaction from them&s;elves,</HI> that is, &s;atisfaction of their doubts, and de&s;ires by im|mediate recour&s;e to that Honourable Court; and how can that be better, or more acceptably done, then by way of petition?</P>
<P><PB N="76" REF="47">But he &s;aith, <HI>They need not feare, they may be kept a while from their de&s;ires, but in the end they will have content, if their own earne&s;t pre&s;&s;ing for it, doe not hinder.</HI> How knowes he that better then they, who have put up their de&s;ires for expediting the difficulties of the Government, by way of petition to the Parliament? The truth is, if he beleeve what he writes, it is but as the Devill be|leeves there is a God, with a very ill will, and if he do not <HI>tremble</HI> at it, he is <HI>afraid</HI> of it; and he would have the Orthodox party but &s;o to beleeve it too, as to make them neglect the be&s;t meanes to pro|cure it; for it hath been another piece of &s;ubtilty of the&s;e <HI>&s;onnes of Zerviah,</HI> 2 <HI>Sam.</HI> 3, 39. to delay re&s;olution again&s;t their way, by pre|tence that there is no need of &s;peed in it, or no fit &s;ea&s;on or oppor|tunity for it, that their oppo&s;ites may &s;ecurely &s;leep, or &s;lacken their endevours, while they with intentive vigilance, and double dili|gence, worke on their owne webbe towards the period they have projected; and give them but time to pro&s;ecute their cau&s;e, and they that &s;ay now wee need not feare, will &s;ay at length perhaps, wee may not hope to enjoy our de&s;ires; and it may be they will endevour to
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg">See the <HI>Epi|&s;tle Dedicatory</HI> to the High end Honoura|ble Court of Parliament, of Mr. <HI>Prinues <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">re&s;h Di&s;covery of &s;ome prodigi|ous new wan|dring-blazing|&s;tarres and fire|brands,</HI> &amp;c. fol. 3. p. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">. And Dr. <HI>Ba&s;t|wicks Preface</HI> to the <HI>&s;econd part of his Booke against Indepen|dency, called the Po&s;t&s;cript.</HI> fol. 14. p. b. &amp; fol. 15. p. 2.</NOTE> affright us that they will have theirs by force of armes.</P>
<P>La&s;tly, he makes as if <HI>over earne&s;t pre&s;&s;ing for the Government, were the way to hinder it;</HI> and abating the word <HI>Over,</HI> (which is his word of aggravation, for he thinkes all's too much that is done to &s;uch a purpo&s;e) we doubt not but an earne&s;t, and humble pre&s;&s;ing by way of petition, will prevaile; for it is not fit to trouble the Parliament with any matter which is not worthy of pre&s;&s;ing im|portunity; though I confe&s;&s;e there is a prudence to be ob&s;erved, when, and how, and how farre to pro&s;ecute a &s;uite in that mo&s;t high and Honourable Court: And &s;o from his exception again&s;t Petition|ing in <HI>Generall,</HI> we will come to what he hath &s;aid of the Petitions in <HI>Particular,</HI> which this weeke were pre&s;ented to the two Hou|&s;es of Parliament, <HI>This day</HI> (that is, Wedne&s;day the nineteenth of November, &amp;c.) &s;aith he, <HI>The Common Councell did pre&s;ent a Peti|tion to the Commons Hou&s;e of Parliament, &mdash; and there came ano|ther from the Clergie to the &s;ame effect,</HI> &amp;c.</P>
<P>Of the&s;e Petitions it will be convenient to con&s;ider;
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. <HI>How they were framed.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. <HI>How they were pre&s;ented.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>3. <HI>How they were accepted.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
<P N="1"><PB N="77" REF="47">1. For the fir&s;t, we &s;hall di&s;tinctly ob&s;erve;
<LIST>
<ITEM>1. <HI>The occa&s;ion of the Petitions.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>2. <HI>The contents of them.</HI></ITEM>
<ITEM>3. <HI>The con&s;ent and concurrence for re&s;olu|tion about them.</HI></ITEM>
</LIST></P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="21" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XXI. <HI>The occa&s;ion of the petitions of the Common Councell and Mini|&s;ters of</HI> London, <HI>and the pre&s;enting of them to the Honourable Hou&s;es of Parliament.</HI></HEAD>
<P>THe <HI>Occa&s;ion</HI> is contained in this <HI>Declaration</HI> following, made by the Mini&s;ters of <HI>London,</HI> and by them pre&s;ented to the Ho|nourable Court of Common Councell of the City in this Tenour.</P>
<P><HI>Wee the Mini&s;ters of</HI> London, <HI>having heretofore received from the Right Honourable the late Lord Major,</HI> A Re&s;olve of the Ho|nourable Hou&s;e of Commons, <HI>of September</HI> 23. 1645. <HI>for choo&s;ing Elders forthwith in the Province of</HI> London, <HI>with their Order an|nexed of October</HI> 8. 1645. <HI>for communicating the &s;ame to our re&s;pe|ctive Congregations, did thereupon choo&s;e a Committee in our names, both to acquaint the Lord Major how we had obeyed the &s;aid Order, and further to &s;ignifie unto him &s;ome doubts, and difficulties, for pre|&s;ent ob&s;tructing our further progre&s;&s;e therein.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Whereupon his Lord&s;hip was plea&s;ed to impart the &s;ame to the Ho|nourable Court of Common Councell, which the Honourable Court &s;o farre re&s;ented, as to appoint a Committee of their owne members to conferre further with the Mini&s;ters about the Premi&s;&s;es, October</HI> 20. <HI>In which conference we declared to the &s;aid Committee that &s;ome of the former doubts were removed by the</HI> Directions of the Lords and Commons <HI>of Augu&s;t</HI> 19. <HI>and the</HI> Ordinance <HI>of October</HI> 20. 1645. <HI>but that &s;ome were continued, and other new difficulties did ri&s;e, by occa&s;ion of</HI> the Directions and Ordinance. <HI>The re&s;ult of which Conference was repre&s;ented to this Honourable Court, atte&s;ted by their owne Committee.</HI></P>
<P><HI>&V;pon which an</HI> Order <HI>of Court was &s;ent unto us, Dat. Octob.</HI> 27. 1645. <HI>intreating the Mini&s;ters to pre&s;ent their de&s;ires and rea&s;ons thereof to this Court in writing under their hands. In reference un|to which</HI> Order, <HI>wee the Mini&s;ters of</HI> London (<HI>thankfully acknow|ledging
<PB N="78" REF="48">our &s;elves much obliged both to the Right Honourable the &s;aid Lord Maior, and this Honourable Court, for all their loving re&s;pects unto us in this matter, &s;o much laid to heart by them) did humbly pre&s;ent both our de&s;ires, and the rea&s;ons thereof:</HI> Their de|&s;ires are the &s;ame which are compri&s;ed in their Petition, which in its proper place will offer it &s;elfe to the Reader. The <HI>Rea&s;ons</HI> I thinke it fit to forbeare, for divers rea&s;ons, whereof that which I &s;hall mention in the third particular may be &s;ufficient.</P>
<P>The &s;econd thing is the <HI>Contents,</HI> which con&s;i&s;ted chiefly of re|que&s;ts, and rea&s;ons for the e&s;tabli&s;hment of the Presbyteriall Go|vernment; wherein, though the penning of each Petition was divers in &s;tyle, and forme of words, yet as I know for the one, which I &s;aw, &s;o I beleeve of the other, which I &s;aw not, that there was nothing in it, which they thought would be offen&s;ive to either Hou&s;e of Parliament.</P>
<P>This traducing Intelligencer &s;aith, <HI>the Citie Petition &s;eemed to complaine, and take ill the proceedings of the Parliament with the A&s;&s;embly, in the late bu&s;ine&s;&s;e pa&s;t concerning the election of Elders.</HI> But they did but <HI>&s;eeme</HI> &s;o, and to &s;uch perhaps onely, as were not acquainted how carefull they were (who were compo&s;ers or peru&s;ers of the Petition) to &s;hunne any expre&s;&s;ion, that might be ju&s;tly lyable to the exception of the chiefe Sages of the King|dome.</P>
<P>For the third particular, they <HI>con&s;ented</HI> to exhibite the &s;ame Schedule of Rea&s;ons, (being in number twelve) that were ten|dered by the Mini&s;ters to the Honourable Court of Common Councell; which, becau&s;e they were plea&s;ed to owne, I will not pre&s;ume to make publique, without their con&s;ent; yet their con|&s;ent I may note (to their great commendation, and for their ju&s;t vindication from the imputation of Schi&s;me, which hath beene re|proachfully charged upon the Citizens of <HI>London</HI>) which was &s;uch, that, as I have heard from &s;uch as I dare beleeve, the Petition being read in the Common Councell, pa&s;&s;ed with a <HI>nemine contradicente,</HI> not one man giving a negative vote again&s;t it; which is an a&s;&s;ured argument of the &s;oundne&s;&s;e of the Aldermen, and Common Coun|cell, (the mo&s;t Honourable, and con&s;iderable part of the Citizens) and of their clearne&s;&s;e from the taint of hereticall, and &s;chi&s;mati|call Tenets; and this union was well ob&s;erved as a confutation of
<PB N="79" REF="48">their reports, who had gloried in a pretended generall oppo&s;ition to the Presbyteriall Government in this Citie.</P>
<P>The &s;econd thing is the <HI>pre&s;enting</HI> of the&s;e Petitions, which was done at the Hou&s;e of Commons, (upon Wedne&s;day the nine|teenth of <HI>November</HI>) to whom the Citie Petition was fir&s;t pre|&s;ented by a competent number of Aldermen, and of the Common Councell, and afterwards the Petition of the Mini&s;ters by many of them; and on the twentieth day was each Petition pre&s;ented to the Hou&s;e of Peeres, in like manner as the day before to the Hou&s;e of Commons.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="22" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XXII. <HI>The offen&s;ive Acceptance of them by the Parliament, as the weekely News-makers make report of it: Cautions premi&s;ed before their confutation.</HI></HEAD>
<P>FOr the third particular, the <HI>acceptance</HI> the Petitions had; This Malignant Intelligencer tels his Reader, that <HI>the Commons &s;ate long, and laid it much to heart that any &s;uch thing &s;hould come from the Citie, and that they &s;hould lend an eare to any, that &s;hould in &s;o evill a way repre&s;ent things to them, and of what dangerous con&s;e|quence it was.</HI></P>
<P>To which before I make any punctuall Reply, I de&s;ire to pre|mi&s;e the&s;e particulars.</P>
<P N="1">1. That in nothing that I have &s;aid, or &s;hall &s;ay, I intend any contradiction to the Honourable Hou&s;e of Commons.</P>
<P N="2">2. I beleeve not this Relater hath truly delivered the fence of that Hou&s;e.</P>
<P N="3">3. That if any worthy Member among them, according to any information received, and beleeved by him, have u&s;ed his libertie in &s;peaking of his mind, (though his <HI>wi&s;dome,</HI> as well as others <HI>in|nocencie,</HI> may be abu&s;ed by mi&s;-report) I &s;hall not de&s;ire to rai&s;e any part of my Reply &s;o high as to him, but to confine my &s;elfe to the report of this Pamphleter, who I am &s;ure hath no Parliamen|tary priviledge to &s;peake what he plea&s;eth; (which yet a Parlia|ment man, that hath it, will not take upon him to u&s;e when he is out of Parliament, as when he is in it.) And if any of that grave
<PB N="80" REF="49">and judicious Senate, &s;uppo&s;ing us faulty, have thought it fit and ju&s;t that we &s;hould be charged, we doubt not but there are many a|mong them, who, if we be innocent, will be well content to &s;ee us cleared; &s;ince for many of us, their Honour is in part ingaged for our reputation, in the
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>We have con|&s;ulted with the Reverend, Pi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">us, and Learned, Di|vines called to|gether to that purpo&s;e.</HI> The Ordinance of Parliament of the third of <HI>January,</HI> 1644. prefixed before the Directory. p. 1.</NOTE> publique Te&s;timonie they have given of us to three Kingdomes; and the mo&s;t of us are the &s;ame men, and have the &s;ame con&s;ciences engaged in the de&s;ire of a pre&s;ent e&s;tabli&s;hment of Government, &s;o as it may be &s;afely, and profita|bly practicall, who in confidence of the goodne&s;&s;e and godline&s;&s;e of the Reformation owned, managed, and maintained by the Parlia|ment; and in hearty and faithfull devotion thereto, and ready and cheerfull obedience to them, have &s;uffered the &s;hipwrack of our e&s;tates, and hazarded our lives, and we repent not of any part of our paines, or pre&s;&s;ures, or perils, &s;o long as we may be &s;erviceable to &s;o good a Cau&s;e, and to &s;uch good and gracious Ma&s;ters, as under Chri&s;t they have hitherto approved them&s;elves toward us: and I hope we may without vain-boa&s;ting &s;ay, by way of Apology, that we have not beene altogether their unprofitable &s;ervants, in re|&s;pect of our Intere&s;t in, and endeavours with the people, (with|out whom the greate&s;t Kings are rather cyphers then figures, and de&s;titute both of honour and &s;afety, <HI>Prov.</HI> 14.28.) to informe their judgements, and to inflame their zeale, and to oblige their con|&s;ciences, to fa&s;ten their affections in loyaltie, and fidelity to tho&s;e worthy P<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">triots, whom they have in their choice and votes of election intru&s;ted with the Religion, the lives, and the e&s;tates of them&s;elves&punc; and their po&s;teritie.</P>
<P>To which purpo&s;e we cannot be of &s;o good u&s;e, nor our medi|ation &s;o effectuall for hereafter, as aforetime, if we be &s;uch Pre|varicators as he hath repre&s;ented us to the publique view; or, not being &s;uch, if we &s;uffer our innocence to be betrayed in mi&s;tru&s;t to &s;u&s;pition, by either incon&s;iderate or cowardly &s;ilence.</P>
<P>Thus much premi&s;ed in dutie to the Honourable Hou&s;e of Com|mons, and in due circum&s;pection and caution to my Reverend Brethren, and my &s;elfe, I &s;hall now make an&s;wer to the charge given out, and the an&s;wer (&s;o farre as it concerneth us) may be partly made out of the conclu&s;ion of the Schedule, (as it was ten|dered with the rea&s;ons of the Mini&s;ters to the Court of Common C<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">uncell in confo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">itie to their de&s;ires made knowne unto us)
<PB N="81" REF="49">which was as that Honorable A&s;&s;embly can witne&s;&s;e with us, in the&s;e words: <HI>The&s;e our de&s;ires and rea&s;ons we humbly pre&s;ent to this Honourable Court, not that we have the lea&s;t intention of inve&s;ting our &s;elves and the Mini&s;tery with any arbitrarie, unlimited, and exor|bitant power: For the power is not to be &s;ettled upon the Mini&s;ters alone, but upon the Pre&s;byteries; in all which it is provided already, that there &s;hall be alwaies two at lea&s;t of the people for one Mini&s;ter; And we &s;incerely profe&s;&s;e our de&s;ires and intentions to manage this weightie Government, not according to our wils, or wi&s;domes, but as neere as is po&s;&s;ible, according to the will and word of God, the mo&s;t certaine Rule in the world; nor that we would carry on this work by might and power, for we have good hope that God in due time will pa|tronize his owne Cau&s;e, though men &s;hould be wanting; but that we may di&s;charge a good con&s;cience, in our utmo&s;t endeavours to advance the Kingdome of Chri&s;t, in the puritie of Reformation, to be faithfull to the Church of Chri&s;t, wherein we are &s;tewards, and watchmen; and to &s;ucceeding po&s;teritie, to maintaine the truth to which we are bound to beare witne&s;&s;e; to fulfill our &s;olemne League and Covenant with God, from which we cannot goe backe; and as your remembran|<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ers, to put you in mind to neglect no pious endeavours, in your places, and callings, for expediting both your &s;elves, and us, out of the former difficulties, and for promoting of &s;uch a Reformation of Religion in Di&s;cipline and Government, as may have due puritie in it &s;elfe, may bring &s;weet unitie among&s;t us, and mo&s;t conduce to an happy unifor|mitie in all the three Kingdomes, according to the vowes of God that are upon you in your &s;olemne League and Covenant.</HI></P>
<P>He goeth on &s;aying, that <HI>the Hou&s;e did perceive that they had beene mi&s;-informed, and that they could not but lay it much to heart that they who had ever beene &s;o ready to doe all good offices for the Kingdome, and goe with the Parliament, &s;hould from any but the Parliament take a repre&s;entation of their proceedings.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Mi&s;-informed,</HI> wherein? is there any thing untrue in that they pre&s;ented in their Petition, or Schedule annexed? and by whom mi&s;-informed? by the Mini&s;ters of <HI>London?</HI> that is the meaning, but certainly they that originally made this &s;ugge&s;tion are little ac|quainted with the minds, con&s;ciences, intentions, or proceed|ings of the Mini&s;ters who gave in their writing to the Common Councell of the Citie, &s;ub&s;cribed with no fewer then foure&s;core
<PB N="82" REF="50">and nine hands; and they had pre&s;ented more to the Parlia|ment if they had not beene &s;trai<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ned in time, for the Petition was drawne up but at night, and was to be delivered the next morning.</P>
<P>And for the Honourable Court of Common Councell of the Citie, (though their prudence, integritie, dignitie, good affection, and fidelitie to the Parliament, have no need, nor doe de&s;ire any defence of &s;o meane or feeble an hand as mine is) I hope it will not be either offen&s;ive, or ungratefull to them, if (having had often conference (as well as other of my Brethren) with their Com|mittee, and being &s;ent with &s;ome of them, in the name of the Mini&s;ters of <HI>London,</HI> to the Honourable Court of Common Coun|cell, on Tue&s;day, <HI>November</HI> 18. where the Citie Petition was publiquely read, and ratified by common con&s;ent) I make report of &s;ome pa&s;&s;ages, wherein they and we are joyntly concerned; as followeth.</P>
<P>There being a Committee of Common Councell cho&s;en by that Councell, to con&s;ult with a Committee of Divines, and to con|&s;ider of our common engagements in the Presbyteriall Govern|ment, (for &s;ome of them, with &s;ome of us were already cho&s;en to be Provinciall Tryers of Elders, and the &s;ame, and many others of the Citizens were like to be cho&s;en for Parochiall Elders) we &s;aw not how we could be divided in difficulties, if the Directions were not cleared; nor in hazards, if we were not &s;ufficiently au|thori&s;ed to carry on the &s;ervice, who were in part already, and yet were further to be united in that great (and to this Kingdome al|together) new undertaking; at our Committees we ob&s;erved no|thing in tho&s;e worthy Citizens of the Committee, nor in tho&s;e who were partly permitted, and partly reque&s;ted to be pre&s;ent at our meetings, but what was &s;utable to piety, prudence, and to af|fectionate and dutifull ob&s;ervance of the Parliament; and it was our joy, as it may be their glory, that we found &s;o many men of ex|cellent parts, and &s;pirits, &s;o well compo&s;ed, and balanced, without any propen&s;ion to be &s;wayed any way further then the light of truth, and dictate of con&s;cience did di&s;po&s;e them: and yet &s;o farre from over-weening wit, or &s;elfe-conceited wilfulne&s;&s;e, that while we debated difficulties with them, we &s;aw that of <HI>Solomon</HI> veri|fied in them, <HI>Give in&s;truction to a wi&s;e man, and he will be yet wi&s;er, teach a ju&s;t man, and he will increa&s;e in learning,</HI> Prov. 9.9.</P>
<P><PB N="83" REF="50">And though they were plea&s;ed to entertaine us with much ho|nour, and favour, we neither tooke upon us to be their guides, in the carriage of this Cau&s;e, nor to per&s;wade them to any thing, but what would be the re&s;ult of their owne judgements, and con|&s;ciences, upon a due con&s;ideration of the matters before them; nor did we know untill Tue&s;day night, the next night before the morning of their going to <HI>We&s;tmin&s;ter,</HI> that they would petition; nor when that was re&s;olved on, did any of us know, or &s;ee that Pe|titionary draught, or &s;o much as a line of it, which they pre&s;ented to the Parliament; onely when my &s;elfe, with &s;ome of my Bre|thren, were &s;ent from the Divines of <HI>London,</HI> then A&s;&s;embled at <HI>Sion</HI> Colledge, to know their minds, how farro they would ap|peare in the propo&s;all of reque&s;ts and rea&s;ons, or what part they would a&s;&s;igne or leave to us (who were re&s;olved to make an hum|ble addre&s;&s;e by our &s;elves to the Parliament, if they would not) being called into the Court of Common Councell, we received from the mouth of the Right Honourable the Lord Maior that now is, &s;ome generall words of gracious acceptance of what we had done, and of their concurrence with us, for the e&s;tabli&s;hment of Church Government; but withall, not knowing their purpo&s;e in particular, we were left to our owne re&s;olutions, to pre&s;ent our de&s;ires to the Parliament, as we conceived to be mo&s;t convenient for us.</P>
<P>In all this what was there which might imply any digre&s;&s;ion from dutie, or any diver&s;ion from their or our due re&s;pect unto the Honourable Hou&s;es?</P>
<P><HI>Object.</HI> But <HI>they tooke the repre&s;entation of the Parliaments pro|ceedings not from the Parliament,</HI> as they de&s;ired, but from others, <HI>viz.</HI> the Mini&s;ters. The quite contrary is true; The Mini&s;ters re|ceived the repre&s;entation of the Parliaments proceedings from the Lord Maior, and both Citizens, and Mini&s;ters, being in a concur|rent condition for &s;cruples and dangers, tendred their Petitions, and Rea&s;ons unto them, for &s;atisfaction from them; wherein there was as faire and ingenuous dealing, as could be de&s;ired; for the Mini&s;ters tendred nothing to the Committee, or Common Coun|cell, but what they were willing &s;hould be read, heard, and exa|mined, and di&s;cu&s;&s;ed by any of what mind or affection &s;o ever; nor could that po&s;&s;ibly be carried in a private way, which came under
<PB N="84" REF="51">the con&s;ideration of the Committee &s;o many times, and after|ward was committed for probation and tryall of the whole Com|mon Councell; and as openly and plainly to the Mini&s;ters dealt with the Citie, &s;o did both the Citie and, Mini&s;tery with the Par|liament, pre&s;enting the &s;ame Schedule of Rea&s;ons, (annexed to each of their Petitions) to their view and cen&s;ure; which patterne of plaine dealing I commend to the imitation of &s;ome of our In|dependent Brethren, that their waies may not be &s;uch Ridles (e|ven to tho&s;e who are no le&s;&s;e wi&s;e, but more innocent then they) that they cannot tell where they have beene working, no more then of the Moles of the earth, untill they &s;ee the heapes they have ca&s;t up, and they glide away &s;o &s;lily in their pace, as if they meant to give occa&s;ion for a fifth particular to be added to <HI>Solomons</HI> Pro|verbe, <HI>There be three things too wonderfull for me, yea foure which I know not; the way of an Eagle in the ayre, the way of a Ser|pent upon a rocke, the way of a Ship in the mid&s;t of the &s;ea, and the way of a Man with a maid,</HI> Prov. 30. 18, 19. To the&s;e as a margi|nall note, though not as a part of the Text, we may adde, <HI>and the way of &s;ome Independents in their plots.</HI></P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="23" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XXIII. <HI>A Copy of the Mini&s;ters Petition, and the Intelli|gencers &s;landerous cen&s;ure of it.</HI></HEAD>
<P>HAving done with the Cities Petition, which he makes the <HI>Simeon,</HI> he brings in the Petition of the Mini&s;ters as the <HI>Levi,</HI> or its Brother in <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">vill, in this &s;ort: <HI>But there came another Petition from the Clergy to the &s;ame effect, which was more &s;ad then the for|mer; for they conceived this latter was an appeale to the people, and of as dangerous a con&s;equence as could be imagined; and that it de|&s;erved an high con&s;ure; and withall they re&s;olved if that was the way intended, they would goe on with their Declaration, and quickly undeceive the people; and in the Interim they referred it to the Committee of Examinations, that the fir&s;t contrivers, and after f<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">|<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="3 letters">tors of the bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, may be dealt withall according to merit.</HI></P>
<P>For an&s;wer unto this, it might be &s;ufficient (if I had to doe
<PB N="85" REF="51">with one that were indeed, and not in name onely a <HI>Moderate In|telligencer</HI>) to &s;et downe the Petition <HI>in Terminis</HI> as it was pre|&s;ented to both Hou&s;es of Parliament; but laying that as a ground|worke, it will be meet to build on to a full confutation.</P>
<FLOATEXT LANG="eng" TYPE="petition">
<HEAD>To the Right Honourable the Lords and Commons A&s;&s;embled in the High Court of Parliament in ENGLAND,</HEAD>
<HEAD TYPE="sub">The humble Petition of the Mini&s;ters of the Go&s;pel, within the Province of <HI>London,</HI></HEAD>
<OPENER>Humbly &s;heweth,</OPENER>
<P><HI>THat your Petitioners and daily Oratours at the throne of Grace, doe unfainedly ble&s;&s;e our God, and the Lord Je&s;us Chri&s;t our Saviour, the head over all things to the Church, that in the mid&s;t of tho&s;e many in&s;ufferable mi&s;eries over flowing, and almo&s;t over whel|ming both this Church and Kingdome, he hath graciou&s;ly opened for us a door of hope, in rai&s;ing up, continuing together, and a&s;&s;i&s;ting of this Renowned Parliament above our expectations, and again&s;t all oppo|&s;itions, for the re&s;cuing both of Church and State from their deepe calamities; having to the&s;e ends engaged your hearts (and with you the three Kingdomes) unto him&s;elfe, in &s;o Religious a Covenant. And we humbly pre&s;ent our hearty thankes unto the Right Honourable Hou&s;es, for all their indefatigable endeavours the&s;e five yeares toge|ther, for the Kingdomes happine&s;&s;e, and the Churches Reformation; and in particular, for the hopes of a &s;peedy e&s;tabli&s;hment of Church Government, intimated unto us in your Directions of</HI> Aug. 19. 1645. <HI>Order of</HI> September 23. <HI>and Ordinance of</HI> October 20. 1645.</P>
<P><HI>In which Directions and Ordinance notwith&s;tanding divers diffi|culties appeare both to us, and to our people, hither to ob&s;tructing our putting the Pre&s;byteriall Government (therein mentioned) into actu|all execution, according to our earne&s;t de&s;ires; by rea&s;on of divers things (as we humbly conceive) partly doubtfull, partly defective therein.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Wherefore your Petitioners in pur&s;uance of our &s;olemne Covenant, in zeale to the glory of God, the Kingdome of Je&s;us Chri&s;t, and the compleat e&s;tabli&s;hment of puritie and unitie in the Church of God, for
<PB N="86" REF="52">the &s;atisfaction of our owne and our peoples con&s;ciences in this weighty matter of Church Government, and for the generall benefit, not onely of the Province of</HI> London, <HI>but of all the Provinces in</HI> England, <HI>both for pre&s;ent and future Ages.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Do mo&s;t humbly and earne&s;tly be&s;eech the Right Honorable Hou&s;es, That the Pre&s;byteriall Government in Congregationall, Cla&s;&s;icall, Provinciall, and Nationall A&s;&s;emblies, (agreed upon already by the Right Honourable Hou&s;es) may be &s;peedily e&s;tabli&s;hed, with &s;uch fulne&s;&s;e and &s;ufficiencie of power, upon all the &s;aid Elder &s;hips, that they may fully, faithfully, and chearfully, with well &s;atisfied con&s;ciences &s;ub|mit unto, and put in execution the &s;aid Government. And that there may be to that end, by your Authoritie, &s;uperadded a cleare explana|tion of things doubtfull, and full &s;upply of things defective, in the &s;aid Directions and Ordinance of the Right Honourable Hou&s;es, accord|ing to the Schedule annexed, and herewith humbly pre&s;ented to your Wi&s;domes and Piety.</HI></P>
<CLOSER>And your Petitioners, &amp;c.</CLOSER>
</FLOATEXT>
<P>This being the Petition to a word, pardon mine incredulitie if I beleeve not that you can per&s;wade any Intelligent Reader, that &s;o prudent a Senate as the Honourable Hou&s;e of Commons is, could &s;o mi&s;take the meaning of it, as to put &s;uch an odious con|&s;truction upon it, as <HI>an Appeale from them to the people,</HI> the people of <HI>London;</HI> that were <HI>to &s;ow &s;edition, and endeavour di&s;&s;ention</HI> be|twixt the Parliament and the Citie, (who&s;e unanimous con&s;ent, and corre&s;pondence in coun&s;els, and executions, have been, under God, the &s;tronge&s;t &s;uppport of the whole Common-weale) a crime worthy of the reward of <HI>Metius Suffetius</HI> in
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><P><HI>&V;t paulo ante (inquit Tullus) animum inter Fidenatem Ro|manemque rem ancipitem ge&s;&s;isti, it a jam corpus pa&s;&s;im distraben|dum dabis.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Exinde duabus admotis qua|drigis, in currus earum distentum illigat Metium, deinde in diver|&s;um iter equi concitati lacerum in utroque curru corpus, qua inhae|&s;erant vinculis membra, p<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">rtan|tes, &amp;c.</HI> Liv. Dec. 1. lib. 1. p. 14.</P></NOTE> <HI>Livy,</HI> who for his double dealing betwixt the <HI>Fide|nates</HI> and the <HI>Romanes,</HI> was &s;o fa&s;tened to two Cha|rets, that the Hor&s;es that drew them being forced divers waies into a furious pace, fore him in pieces.</P>
<P>But Sir, if tho&s;e on your partie doe no wor&s;e offices to the Citie, by your in&s;inuations into the minds of the worthy Members of the Honourable Hou&s;es, then Presbyteriall Mini&s;ters doe to the Parliament, by their entercour&s;e with the Citizens, there will be no occa|&s;ion given for the lea&s;t &s;hew of &s;u&s;pition, or jealou&s;ie
<PB N="87" REF="52">betwixt them; and who&s;oever &s;hall read your paper and mine An|&s;wer, will &s;ee good cau&s;e to conceive, that &s;ome of your &s;pirit have too bu&s;ily be&s;tirred them&s;elves, out of the union betwixt Citizens and Mini&s;ters to rai&s;e a Divi&s;ion betwixt the Parliament and Citie, (which he that de&s;ires to &s;ee, I wi&s;h rather that <HI>the Ravens of the valley pick out his eyes,</HI> Prov. 30.17.) But that union doth clearly confute the calumny you ca&s;t upon the Mini&s;ters Petition; for &s;o farre is it from an appearance of an Appeale from the Parliament to the people, that it plainly repre&s;enteth both Mini&s;ters and people con&s;ulting, and concluding, joyntly to make an Appeale to the Parliament, and humbly waiting to be di&s;po&s;ed of by their finall Re&s;olutions.</P>
<P>This is it &s;ure for which you &s;ay, <HI>the latter Petition was more &s;ad then the former;</HI> for when that came in &s;o conformable to the Citie Petition in matter, (though differing in phra&s;e &amp; &s;tyle) and in &s;cope, and Intention, and word for word the &s;ame in a Schedule of Rea&s;ons annexed to it, it was an evidence of &s;o good agreement betwixt the mo&s;t eminent Citizens, and the forementioned Mini|&s;ters, as mu&s;t needs be a great griefe of heart to tho&s;e, that make great advantage of the divi&s;ions of <HI>Reuben,</HI> yea and of all the Tribes throughout out <HI>I&s;rael.</HI></P>
<P>He goeth on with a proficiencie from bad to wor&s;e; and though he hath no honey at all, he hath a double &s;ting in the taile of his Intel|ligence; &s;cruing up a charge again&s;t the Petitioners to the highe&s;t aggravation that may be, and concluding with the commination of a cen&s;ure, commen&s;urate to their merit. For the Charge the&s;e be his words: <HI>They</HI> (that is, the Hou&s;e of Commons) <HI>conceived this latter,</HI> (that is, the Petition of the Mini&s;ters) <HI>was an Appeale from the Hou&s;es to the people, and of as dangerous a con&s;equence as could be imagined</HI></P>
<P>Having an&s;wered the former words, I will now &s;peake onely to the latter: But fir&s;t I mu&s;t pau&s;e and wonder a while at this &s;u|perlative Slander. How Sir, <HI>Was that Petition of as dangerous a con&s;equence as could be imagined?</HI> no &s;uch matter Sir. For what danger at all can be imagined in it, when all is in effect no more but this, <HI>that the Citizens and Mini&s;ters upon Petition may clearly un|der&s;tand the mind of the Parliament, and may be throughly enabled to put in execution their commands, to obey them to the full according
<PB N="88" REF="53">to their engagement in the &s;olemne Covenant.</HI> Such fearefull appre|hen&s;ions, even of dangerous con&s;equence, (if they be reall, not fained) may proceed from the &s;elfe-love of your party, who con|fine the common felicitie to your owne particular Intere&s;ts; and thinke the world will be in a very ill condition, if the Presbytery &s;hould be &s;et up, and &s;hould &s;et bounds to your ambitious, or co|vetous encroachments upon the rights of Mini&s;ters and people: and it may be (becau&s;e you are no <HI>Iona&s;&s;es,</HI> to be willing to be ca&s;t into the Sea to &s;ave the Ship and pa&s;&s;engers in it) you may have in your thoughts &s;ome Military commotion of your owne making; for you know, or may know, that bloody words, lyable to &s;uch a &s;ence, and tending to the like effect, have beene more then once laid to the charge of &s;ome of your &s;ide, as hath beene noted, <HI>pag.</HI> 76.</P>
<P>And if your <HI>dangerous con&s;equence</HI> be but a fiction and pretence, (which I rather imagine) it mu&s;t be &s;uppo&s;ed to be but a ca&s;t of your &s;ubtilty, to make the &s;imple afraid of, and to beget a mi&s;tru&s;t of &s;ome dangerous de&s;igne in the Mini&s;ters, that they may de&s;ert them, and adhere unto you, as men of prudent in&s;ight into immi|nent mi&s;chieves, and of provident foreca&s;t to &s;ecure them from danger who betake them&s;elves to your cau&s;e and complices for &s;uccour and &s;afety.</P>
<P>Which of the&s;e conjectures is true, (or whether any other, any wor&s;e, for a plaine Presbyterian is too &s;hallow to &s;ound the depth of a projecting Independent) I will not determine; but I will confidently re&s;olve, <HI>that</HI> &s;uch an imagination of tran&s;cendent dan|ger in the Petition of the Mini&s;ters, was no part of the mind of the major part of the Hou&s;e of Commons; (which mu&s;t give deno|mination to the whole) for they can never be &s;o much mi&s;taken, as to put &s;uch an exuberant expre&s;&s;ion of offence upon &s;o inoffen&s;ive a Petition; who very well know, and cannot but as well remem|ber, your Brother <HI>Lilburnes</HI> bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, and what &s;editious papers he, and his faction &s;ent abroad; which if you had forgotten (for I doubt not but &s;uch a &s;chi&s;maticall polypragm<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">n, as tho&s;e that know you report you to be, if not wi&s;e enough to be of his coun|&s;ell, may be bu&s;ie enough to be active in his de&s;perate de&s;igne) I would helpe your memory with a repetition of &s;ome &s;uch pa&s;&s;ages out of them, as might be worthy of your now mi&s;applied aggra|vation,
<PB N="89" REF="53">[<HI>of as dangerous con&s;equence as may be imagined</HI>] but that I thinke them fitter to be burned by the common Hangman, or bu|ried in everla&s;ting oblivion, then now to be mentioned, e&s;pecially in a Di&s;cour&s;e of defence of the Innocent. And truly Sir next unto <HI>Lilburnes</HI> Libels, we may &s;ay of your malevolent Intelligence of this weeke, that it is <HI>a matter of as dangerous con&s;equence as may be imagined:</HI> For doo not you, as farre as your credit will carry a mi&s;chievous &s;ugge&s;tion, di&s;per&s;e all about a &s;u&s;pition of the Cities and Mini&s;ters combination again&s;t the two Hou&s;es of Parliament? who have hitherto with honour and &s;afetie very much confided in their affection, and fidelitie, (as I doubt not they will ever have cau&s;e &s;o to doe) though &s;uch malignant medlers as you &s;ay and doe what they can to the contrary.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="24" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XXIV. Britanicus <HI>taxed for traducing the Petitioners.</HI></HEAD>
<P>YOur <HI>Athenian</HI> Colleague, <HI>Britanicus,</HI> (though they that reade you both, will haply take you to be rather a
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>Boeotion in cra&s;&s;o jurares aere natum.</HI> Horat.</NOTE> <HI>Beotian</HI>) hath a conceit of &s;ome di&s;paragement to the Parliament, by a &s;uppo&s;ed di|vi&s;ion, though he lay his action wrong, mi&s;taking an occa&s;ion for a cau&s;e, and one per&s;on for another: whom, though I fir&s;t mention him in way of oppo&s;ition to you, I mu&s;t take for an adver&s;ary to us, I meane to the City and Mini&s;try in this bu&s;ine&s;&s;e of Petition; and when I have given him an animadver&s;ion by the way, I &s;hall return unto, and proceed with you. <HI>It may prove</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>a train to blow up the reputation of the renowned Parliament, and harden the enemy in their cour&s;es, if they &s;hould &s;ee a doore of hope opened through any &s;uppo&s;ed divi&s;ions; the common Adver&s;ary will take heart againe, and tho&s;e which favour them (whether at home or abroad) will dare again to &s;hew them&s;elves, as not doubting to perfect their de&s;igne, if we di&s;|joynt our &s;elves, and contribute to our owne ruine.</HI></P>
<P>Divi&s;ions among us divulged by you, may animate the common Enemy to a greater height of hopes, and attempts, &s;o much his ob|&s;ervation implyeth, and that's your fault, M^r. <HI>Intelligencer,</HI> but he applyeth it to the Petitioners, and that's his calumny, as well as yours. <HI>It may prove,</HI> &s;aith hee, <HI>a traine</HI> &amp;c. What is that that may
<PB N="90" REF="54">prove &s;o? the Petition? the <HI>Petition a traine to blow up the reputation of the Parliament?</HI> Reade it, Sir, and you will &s;ee it is not a <HI>train<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">,</HI> but a <HI>Trumpet</HI> to blow up their reputation with a loud &s;ound, and melodious accent, with humble thankes acknowledging, and high|ly extolling them by the name of <HI>A renowned Parliament, for their indefatigable endevours for five years together, for the Kingdoms hap|pine&s;&s;e, and the Churches Reformation.</HI> And can the Petition be charged to open a doore of hope to the enemies, through &s;uppo&s;ed divi&s;ions from the Parliament, when it expre&s;ly maketh the <HI>Par|liament a doore of hope</HI> of much happine&s;&s;e to the Kingdome? It is an ea&s;ie matter to turne the mo&s;t innocent action, or bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, into an occa&s;ion of exception; but they are the cau&s;es (for the particular in que&s;tion) both of di&s;turbance to the Parliament, and of danger from the common enemy, who proclaime unkindne&s;&s;e betwixt the Parliament, and their mo&s;t faithfull, and &s;erviceable Votaries, the Common Councell, and Mini&s;ters of the City of <HI>London.</HI></P>
<P>This Retortion, as by a kind of partner&s;hip, belongeth to both the&s;e fal&s;e Brethren, but taking <HI>Britannicus</HI> by him&s;elfe, he begin|neth at the beginning of the weeke, by the figure <HI>Anticipation,</HI> for the Petitions were not pre&s;ented to the Honourable Hou&s;es untill two o<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> three dayes after; and &s;o he cometh over the matter againe upon Wedne&s;day and Thur&s;day: In the fir&s;t place he findeth fault with Petitioning, as out of &s;ea&s;on, and &s;o <HI>indi&s;creet,</HI> and as imputing neglect to the Parliament, and implying <HI>di&s;tru&s;t of the Indgment &amp; care of tho&s;e whom we acknowledge the wi&s;e&s;t and &s;upreme Councell,</HI> and &s;o <HI>undutifull;</HI> but neither &s;o nor &s;o, for the purpo&s;e of Petition|ing was &s;o fanned and &s;ifted, by the free and impartiall debates of divers wi&s;e and worthy Citizens, and by learned and well advi&s;ed Mini&s;ters, that if there had been any folly or indi&s;cretion, it would have vani&s;hed into nothing; but, Sir, I can a&s;&s;ure you of my know|ledge, the more it was weighed and examined, the more it was approved by the prudent, as well as the pious of both Societies, not only as <HI>nece&s;&s;ary,</HI> but as <HI>&s;ea&s;onable</HI> al&s;o. And if the Honourable Hou&s;es were intentively imployd to perfect the Government, and did &s;et them&s;elves in a con&s;tant cour&s;e, and cho&s;e &s;et dayes for that purpo&s;e, and the day of pre&s;enting the Petition was one of them, (all which I beleeve, and cannot thinke of it without thankes to them, nor without prai&s;es of them, and prayers for them) yet
<PB N="91" REF="54">was it not un&s;ea&s;onable to petition them, becau&s;e the concurrent de&s;ires of &s;o many, &s;o con&s;iderable Petitioners might be a meanes to remove &s;ome ob&s;tructions,
<NOTE PLACE="marg">Qui monet u<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> facias qu<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">d jam facis <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">de moven|do</NOTE> and to facilitate and expedite the bu|&s;ine&s;&s;e they had in hand. Nor was it any di&s;tru&s;t, or impeachment of the high prai&s;e of their prudence, for you know the old and ever true Aphori&s;me, when the Acts of goodne&s;&s;e doe anticipate admo|nitions,
<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>Laudat, &amp; hortatu compre|bat acta &s;uo.</HI> Ovid.</NOTE> (and we may &s;ay the like of Petitions) they are &s;o far from repr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ofes, that they are the prai&s;es of the Actors.</P>
<P>Nor is there any more cau&s;e to impute <HI>undutifulne&s;&s;e,</HI> or ill man|ners unto the Petitioners, then there is to accu&s;e them of want of policie, or prudence, for this particular; nor any ground to &s;traine up the charge &s;o high, as if that which they did were <HI>preju|diciall, and derogatorie to the Maje&s;ty of Parliament, in fore&s;talling their coun&s;els with any particular de&s;ires.</HI> So &s;ay you M^r. <HI>Br.</HI> in your Wedne&s;dayes accompt: But I pray you, Sir, by what dialect doe you call tho&s;e Petitions <HI>particular de&s;ires,</HI> which were concluded in a <HI>full Common Councell,</HI> (the repre&s;entative body of this fa|mous, and never more then &s;ince our late and unhappy warres, renowned City) not one man (as I have been credibly informed) appearing again&s;t it at the pa&s;&s;ing of the Vote; and that <HI>not for any particular per&s;on, or purpo&s;e,</HI> but for the generall good of three King|domes, both for the generation pre&s;ent, and for po&s;terity in the ages to come? And what prohibition I pray you lyes again&s;t parti|cular Citizens and Mini&s;ters, that they may not Petition the Parlia|ment with particular de&s;ires, as well as you? Did not you when you were confined, for &s;hewing your &s;elfe rather an over-nimble <HI>Mercury,</HI> then a &s;ober paced <HI>Britannicus,</HI> petition them your &s;elfe for your enlargement? And when you did &s;o, did you do any thing <HI>prejudiciall and derogatory to the Maje&s;ty and Dignity of Parlia|ment, and as it were fore&s;tall their coun&s;els with your particular de|&s;ires?</HI> If not, &s;hew us your priviledge, which may make it no fault in you, and an <HI>indi&s;cretion,</HI> or <HI>undutifulne&s;&s;e,</HI> or ill <HI>manners</HI> in others.</P>
<P>I &s;hall need to proceed no further in an&s;wer to your Critici&s;mes, I &s;ee you are ingenious in your apprehen&s;ions, and ingenuous in confe&s;&s;ion of your owne mi&s;pri&s;ions; and &s;ince I perceive you &s;o punctuall in rectifying your Reader to a title, (for you acknow|ledge a mi&s;take in honouring Sir <HI>The A&s;ton</HI> (with whom I have
<PB N="92" REF="55">had much, and &s;ome perillous oppo&s;ition in the Cau&s;e of the Parlia|ment) with the Title of a <HI>Lord</HI>) doubt not but you will be as ready to retract an unde&s;erved traducement of the Parliaments friends, (e&s;pecially &s;o many, and of &s;o great reputation) as to recall an unde|&s;erved advancement of the Parliaments enemy.</P>
<P>I will take leave of you with a word of advice, which is but this, take heed of engaging your &s;elfe any further in this cau&s;e, &s;ee fir&s;t how the Immoderate Intelligencer &s;peeds with his precipi|tated reproaches again&s;t the City, and Mini&s;ters of <HI>London;</HI> to whom now I will returne, and take leave of him, though not in &s;uch a manner as I doe of you; and having an&s;wered his <HI>crimina|tion,</HI> I &s;hall now enter a defence again&s;t his <HI>commination</HI> of cen&s;ure.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="25" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XXV. <HI>An an&s;wer to the Intelligencers Commination of the Petitioners.</HI></HEAD>
<P>HAving &s;et the &s;u&s;pition of guilt up to the height, not onely of <HI>reality</HI> but of <HI>imagination,</HI> he &s;crueth up the cen&s;ure to a pro|portionable elevation, &s;aying, in the name of the Honourable Hou&s;e of Commons, (but without any warrant from them) <HI>that it de|&s;erved an high cen&s;ure,</HI> and <HI>withall that they re&s;olved, if that were the way intended, they would goe on with their Declaration, and quickly undeceive the people, and in the Interim they referred it to the Committee of Examinations, that the fir&s;t contrivers, and after fomenters of that bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, may be dealt with according to merit.</HI></P>
<P>The&s;e words may &s;ound &s;ome terrour to him,
<NOTE PLACE="marg"><HI>&mdash;Hic mur<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> abeneus e&s;to, Nil con&s;eire &s;ibi, &amp;c.</HI> Horat.</NOTE> that hath but a bra&s;en face, but he that hath a wall of bra&s;&s;e, a cleare con&s;cience from the guilt objected, may be <HI>bold as a Lion,</HI> when &s;uch as you may <HI>flee when no man pur&s;ueth,</HI> Prov. 28.1. For more particular <HI>Reply,</HI> S^r. we cannot be put into fear of an <HI>high cen&s;ure,</HI> while we are a&s;&s;ured of our owne innocence, and the Hou&s;es of Parliaments both prudence and ju&s;tice; and therefore we &s;hall willingly &s;ubmit our &s;elves to examination, when, and where they plea&s;e to call us to our an&s;wer; and if our accu&s;ers would meet us at the barre, upon
<PB N="93" REF="55">&s;uch ju&s;t and equall termes as <HI>lege talionis</HI> by the Divine law is or|dained, <HI>Deut.</HI> 19.16, &amp;c. we would petition them againe for a tryall, and puni&s;hment, (upon conviction) as before for the e&s;ta|bli&s;hment of the Presbyteriall Di&s;cipline.</P>
<P>For the <HI>Declaration</HI> you &s;peake of, there be two things which will &s;ecure us from all danger of it; the one is, that what&s;oever it is, it is but conditionall, <HI>viz [if this be the way]</HI> that is, the way of &s;editious appeale from the Parliament to the people, and we are &s;ure that's no way of ours: how neere the Independent by-path coa&s;ts upon, or bends towards that way, may appeare by their ma|king combinations with the people, and &s;etting up a popular Go|vernment in the Church, without any authoritie from the State.</P>
<P>The other &s;ecuritie we have is both from the Parliament, and our &s;elves, as we have profe&s;&s;ed before, and in confidence of both, neither Parliamentary Examinations, Declarations, no nor Vi&s;ita|tions &s;hall trouble us; for if we be guilty, let them <HI>vi&s;it our tran&s;|gre&s;&s;ion with the rod, and our iniquitie with &s;tripes,</HI> P&s;al. 89.32. and (if we de&s;erve it) let them cha&s;ti&s;e us not onely with <HI>Solomons whips,</HI> but with <HI>Reboboams &s;corpions,</HI> 1 King. 12.14.</P>
<P>There is one thing more in his minatory report, which, though he tell it as a threat, I would take it for a promi&s;e, if he could make it good in the right &s;en&s;e of it, that is, <HI>quickly to undeceive the peo|ple,</HI> for they are &s;hamefully deceived many waies, e&s;pecially by &s;uch impudent Impo&s;tors as this weekly Newes-maker; with whom I have now done. And in confutation of <HI>Britannicus</HI> and him, I have confuted others, who concurr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> with them in the &s;ame calumnies again&s;t the Common Councell, and Mini&s;ters of <HI>London.</HI></P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 N="26" TYPE="section">
<HEAD>SECT. XXVI. <HI>The mi&s;report of the Diurnall and Weekely Account confuted, and the Perfect Pa&s;&s;ages con|vinced of ab&s;urdity and &s;edition.</HI></HEAD>
<P>YEt I mu&s;t be&s;tow a few words on the <HI>Perfect Diurnall,</HI> and <HI>Weekely Account,</HI> and a few lines on the <HI>Perfect Pa&s;&s;ages:</HI> For the fir&s;t, omitting what is virtually or formally an&s;wered be|fore,
<PB N="94" REF="56">under the Titles forementioned, I &s;hall note but one parti|cular, which is, that it was ordered as a part of the an&s;wer to the Mini&s;ters, that <HI>they &s;hould returne home, and looke after and attend the charges of their &s;everall Congregations;</HI> &s;o &s;aith the <HI>Perfect Di|urnall;</HI> and <HI>the Weekly Account,</HI> &s;aith, <HI>the Mini&s;ters were de&s;ired to looke diligently to their owne flocks,</HI> with this addition of the Wri|ter, <HI>a neighty charge, and worke enough;</HI> by which is implied that they were negligent in their Calling, and too bu&s;ie out of it; but as there was no ground for &s;uch an implicit reproofe, &s;o there was no &s;uch me&s;&s;age given in the Name of the Hou&s;e to the Mi|ni&s;ters, as he that pre&s;ented the Petition confidently averreth, to whom other Mini&s;ters that accompanied him doe give atte|&s;tation.</P>
<P>Now for <HI>the Perfect Pa&s;&s;ages</HI> (as the Authour cals his Pamph|let) it is in one particular mo&s;t &s;editious and &s;candalous: <HI>viz.</HI> this, <HI>What may be thought of tho&s;e that goe about to di&s;parage Lieutenant Generall Cromwell, and the Independent Army that have done &s;o much good in reducing the Kingdome, and brought the Warres &s;o neere to an end?</HI> What may be thought of this Que&s;tioni&s;t? He cals his &s;heet of Newes <HI>Perfect Pa&s;&s;ages,</HI> by the &s;ame figure, be|like, that the Furies are called <HI>Eumenides,</HI> for never did I read &s;uch <HI>imperfect pa&s;&s;ages</HI> in any printed paper. The Title is, <HI>Perfect Pa&s;|&s;ages of each dayes proceedings in Parliament;</HI> and the day he be|gins withall is the 19. of <HI>November;</HI> and he begins that day with a poore piece of Sycophanticall Rhetorick, in prai&s;e of the Parlia|ment, and pre&s;ently pa&s;&s;eth from palpable flattery (the &s;hallowe&s;t and &s;illie&s;t that ever was be&s;towed on &s;o profound and prudent a Senate) to pernitious calumnie, in an&s;wer to the Que&s;tion he hath propo&s;ed; and thats all he hath for that day; and what is that to the proceedings in Parliament that day? if he had given in that account for &s;ome day about the middle of Mid&s;ummer moneths, his ab&s;urdities had beene more &s;ea&s;onable, more &s;utable to the tem|per of that Lu<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">atick Quarter, and &s;o it might have beene &s;ome ex|cu&s;e, or extenuation of his fault in moving &s;uch a f<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ditious and dan|gerous Que&s;tion, wherein he &s;eemeth zealous for the honour of Lieutenan<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> Generall <HI>Cromwell,</HI> and with him magnifieth the Ar|my under the Title of <HI>Independent.</HI></P>
<P>Now for Lieutenant Generall <HI>Cromwell,</HI> I <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word">, no man that
<PB N="95" REF="56">goeth about to di&s;parage him, and I doubt many take occa&s;ion to commend him otherwi&s;e then his wi&s;dome will approve of; for my part, whether he be an <HI>Independent</HI> or no, I know not; but if he be, I can be content to give him, and any other of that way, all the prai&s;e that is due unto them; and though I much mi&s;like projecting Independents, who idolize their owne fancies, and pretending the publique welfare, care for nothing el&s;e, or nothing more then to carry on their owne concernments by the Foxes pate, or Lions paw, by fraud, or force, as either of them may be &s;erviceable to their &s;elfe &s;eeking de&s;igne, yet I doubt not but there be many goe under that name, who are rather pa&s;&s;ive then active in deceit, who truly feare God, and &s;incerely de&s;ire, according to the &s;ong of the Angel, <HI>That glory may be to God on high, good will towards men, and peace upon earth,</HI> Luk. 2.14.</P>
<P>And to &s;peake more particularly of him, I beleeve, (as I have heard of him by tho&s;e to whom he is well knowne, as they are to me) that he is a wi&s;e man, a well advi&s;ed and valiant Commander, and &s;o good and &s;incere a Chri&s;tian, &s;o true a lover of his Countrey, that he would not have the peace of it di&s;turbed, for any difference betwixt Presbyterians and Independents. And upon &s;uch pre|mi&s;es I dare pre&s;ume to inferre, that the gallant Lieutenant Ge|nerall will not be well plea&s;ed with &s;uch a Que&s;tion, or An&s;wer, as this Novell Catechi&s;er hath &s;et forth; for what&s;oever <HI>affinitie</HI> (or it may be <HI>identity</HI>) is betwixt him and an Independent, there is no congruitie betwixt the termes <HI>Independent</HI> and <HI>Army</HI> in our State; for doth not the Army depend upon the Parliament, who give di|rections, and commands to it for their &s;ervice? and doe not the chiefe Commanders in it profe&s;&s;e them&s;elves to be di&s;po|&s;ed of onely by the determinations of Parliament? in this re&s;pect a man might &s;ay, an <HI>Independent wife,</HI> or an <HI>Independent &s;ervant,</HI> as well as an <HI>Independent Army.</HI> And if we con&s;ider the Army with|in it &s;elfe, is it (as they would have the Church) compo&s;ed, or made up of Independent Congregations? &s;o that every Captaine and his company are free to attempt, or act, as they can agree a|mong them&s;elves, without &s;ubordination to &s;uperiour Comman|ders; if &s;o, the Army would not be an Army, that is, an entire and well compacted &s;y&s;teme, or body of &s;ouldiers united, and regu|lated by prudence, and authoritie in a graduall &s;eries of Martiall
<PB N="96" REF="57">command and government, but would breake in pieces into petty parties, as it is upon a rout made by the enemy, and &s;o would be of little u&s;e, or force, either for conflict, or conque&s;t, much le&s;&s;e would it be terrible as <HI>an armie with banners</HI> &s;hould be, and the Church is compared to &s;uch an Army, <HI>Cant.</HI> 6.4.</P>
<P>This onely by the way: But he meanes it perhaps an Indepen|dent Army <HI>materially</HI> (not <HI>formally</HI>) as con&s;i&s;ting of Comman|ders and common &s;ouldiers, addicted to Independencie: If he take Independents as di&s;tingui&s;hed from the Orthodoxe party on the one &s;ide, and from the heterodoxe party of <HI>Anabapti&s;ts, Browni&s;ts, Antinomians,</HI> and other &s;uch erroneous dogmati&s;ts on the other &s;ide, (with whom if they be true to the Principles of Religion they cannot finally clo&s;e in accord again&s;t the Presbyte|rians) they are much too few to denominate the Army; and I doubt not but the ingenuous, and con&s;ciencious Independents will con|fe&s;&s;e, that there have beene &s;ince our wofull warre begunne, and yet are many both skilfull, faithfull, and couragious Commanders, and common &s;ouldiers, who have done very great and &s;ucce&s;&s;efull &s;ervice towards the fini&s;hing of the warre, and yet never came under the name or notion of Independents, unle&s;&s;e by mi&s;take, or impo&s;ture, as this fellow would cou&s;en the Kingdome, and afright the Presbyterians with a conceit of the pui&s;&s;ance and prevalence of Independencie in the Army, and by the Army, as if that were the life-blood that maintained the &s;pirits of our Military forces, and made all the &s;ouldiers valorous and victorious, and &s;o the Indepen|dent Army as Independent, <HI>reduplicative</HI> (for &s;o he would have his Reader deluded) had reduced the Kingdome, and brought the warre &s;o neere an end; here an end of his Que&s;tion.</P>
<P>His An&s;wer is, <HI>They,</HI> that is, they that goe about to di&s;parage Lieutenant Generall <HI>Cromwell,</HI> and the Independent Army, <HI>are un|chri&s;tian, and uncharitable, and either very envious, or ill affected; either they know not what that Party have done for us, or el&s;e envy that they have done &s;o much:</HI> For Lieutenant Generall <HI>Cromwell</HI> his detractors I know none &s;uch, therefore I know none who therein is unchri&s;tian, and uncharitable towards him. For your In|dependent Army, it is (as Schollers u&s;e to terme &s;uch an un&s;utable conjunction) a <HI>Bull,</HI> a meere contradiction in <HI>adjecto,</HI> there is no &s;uch thing. It may be if you &s;hould pa&s;&s;e uncontrould with &s;uch
<PB N="97" REF="57">ab&s;urd incon&s;i&s;tences, we &s;hould &s;hortly heare of an <HI>Independent Parliament</HI> (not becau&s;e it is the &s;upreme and Independent judi|catory in the Kingdome) but becau&s;e of the members who favour that way, though they be very few in compari&s;on of tho&s;e who have voted the Presbytery, an <HI>Independent Synod</HI> or <HI>A&s;&s;embly,</HI> be|cau&s;e there are &s;ome Independents mingled with many Pres|byterian Divines; and if the Common Councell of the Citie had not generally concurred to petition for Presbyterie, I doubt not but this Nicknaming <HI>Newes-maker</HI> would, in &s;ome of his pa|pers, make <HI>London</HI> (though already divided into Cla&s;&s;icall Presby|teries, and united into a Province) an <HI>Independent City.</HI></P>
<P>La&s;t of all he &s;aith, <HI>they daily adventure their lives, and many of them have &s;pilt their blood to &s;ave our lives, and e&s;tates, and i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">t not <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> hate them for the good they have done, and &s;till doe for us.</HI> As ma|ny as have expo&s;ed them&s;elves to &s;uch perill, and for &s;uch a purpo&s;e, ashere is &s;pecified, God forbid, their zeale, and love, and courage &s;hould be an&s;wered with envy, or hatred: but here <HI>is one fallacie in view,</HI> they that are &s;o kind to their brethren as to &s;hed their own blood, that they might &s;leepe in a whole skinne, did not this as <HI>In|dependents,</HI> but as <HI>Chri&s;tians,</HI> for many lo&s;t their lives before ever Independents were dreamed of, it was a rule of Religion, <HI>that we ought to lay downe our lives for the brethren,</HI> 1 Ioh. 3.16.</P>
<P>And there may be <HI>another fallacie lurking</HI> under tho&s;e indefinite expre&s;&s;ions, <HI>they daily adventure, &amp;c. to &s;ave our lives and e&s;tates;</HI> for it is not true of all, it may be not of mo&s;t, that tho&s;e be the mo|tives or ends of their engagements. So much for this Que&s;tion and An&s;wer: Now I could wi&s;h this Que&s;tioni&s;t were que&s;tioned, and that we might know the mind of &s;uch as have Authoritie to examine him whether they thought him worthy of <HI>Bedlam,</HI> foe his witle&s;&s;e ra&s;hne&s;&s;e, or of <HI>Newgate,</HI> for his &s;editious wicked|ne&s;&s;e.</P>
</DIV2>
<DIV2 TYPE="conclusion">
<HEAD>Conclu&s;ion.</HEAD>
<P>For Conclu&s;ion of this Apologetick Reply to the&s;e popular Im|po&s;tors, I &s;hall fairely admoni&s;h them to be better advi&s;ed hereaf|ter,
<PB N="98" REF="58">(then hitherto they have been) that they doe not traduce the Innocence of worthy, and well de&s;erving Citizens, or Mini&s;ters, to gratifie a party, and to abu&s;e the credulity of the Vulgar with untruths, as opprobrious to the one &s;ide, as vain-glorious to the other. For &s;ince they are di&s;covered to be weekely journey men in the &s;ervice of a &s;chi&s;maticall de&s;igne, and to carry it on with in|tolerable contumely to venerable Societies, and with in&s;inuations, and incentives to &s;edition again&s;t the Government intended, and partly e&s;tabli&s;hed by Authoritie of Parliament, it will not be their priviledge for time to come, to pa&s;&s;e without &s;uch <HI>cha&s;ti&s;ement</HI> as is due to their demerits: <HI>whereat</HI> if any be di&s;plea&s;ed, it will be onely the faulty, and the offence they take will be like the quarrell of
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>Cum ab eo quaereretur quid tandem accu&s;a|turus e&s;&s;et eum, quem pro digni|tate ne laudare quidem qui&s;|quam &s;atis com|mode po&s;&s;et; aiunt hominem (ut erat furio|&s;us) re&s;pondi&s;&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">, qu<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">d non totum telum corpore recepi&s;&s;et.</HI> Cicer. Orat. 2. pro Sex. Ro&s;cio Amerino.</NOTE> <HI>Fimbria</HI> again&s;t <HI>Scevola,</HI> for that the noble Senator would not take his dagger &s;o deepe into his body as he would have thru&s;t it. And in &s;uch a ca&s;e, to forbeare a nece&s;&s;ary defence of a mans &s;elfe, or his A&s;&s;ociates, in a matter &s;o ju&s;t and &s;o generall, &s;o ingenuou&s;ly and uprightly managed, as that of the Petitioners, le&s;t an enemy &s;hould be offended at it without a cau&s;e, were in any indifferent judgement a grand iniquitie, a crime compo&s;ed of a very high de|gree of cowardice, and treachery.</P>
</DIV2>
</DIV1>
<DIV1 TYPE="postscript">
<PB N="99" REF="58">
<HEAD>A Po&s;t&s;cript, or after-reckoning with the <HI>Moderate Intelligencer,</HI> and <HI>Mer|curius Britanicus.</HI></HEAD>
<P>THe pace of a Booke at the Pre&s;&s;e, proceeding flowly, (as <HI>Guicciardine</HI> &s;aith of the Italian Ordinance drawn with oxen,) hath afforded this advantage to the&s;e po&s;ting News-men, that they have had a &s;econd turne to tell their owne tale unto the people, be|fore the confutation of their calumnies again&s;t the Petitions of the Common Councell, and Mini&s;ters of <HI>London,</HI> be once pre&s;ented to publique acceptance; which Inconvenience hath yet brought with it this recompence; I am by the delay &s;omewhat better ac|quainted with their &s;pirits, and thence find cau&s;e to conceive more hope of the one, and to ob&s;erve le&s;&s;e ingenuitie in the other, then I did apprehend, when I put in my defen&s;ive plea for the Peti|tioners, again&s;t their traducements; and in this <HI>Po&s;t&s;cript</HI> or <HI>after|reckoning</HI> I &s;hall entertaine them accordingly.</P>
<P N="1">1. For the <HI>Intelligencer,</HI> wee have from him &s;ome previous di&s;|po&s;itions to repentance for his printed reproaches, &s;omewhat to|wards <HI>attrition,</HI> though farre &s;hort of &s;uch Chri&s;tian <HI>contrition</HI> as is a nece&s;&s;ary preparative for the obtainment of a pardon. His words in his Thur&s;dayes accompt are the&s;e; <HI>There pa&s;t us la&s;t weeke &s;ome|thing that was displea&s;ing both to the Common Councell, and likewi&s;e to the Clergie; to neither of which we intended the lea&s;t di&s;pl&egrave;n&s;ure; what was in&s;erted, we received, and conceived from a good Author; and finding the Hou&s;e of Commons to be very much affected with what came from both, as that which might be of evill con&s;equence; we therefore were the readyer to believe it might amount to &s;o much as we were told, but under&s;tanding now from others, that the Petitions had no &s;uch words, nor contained any &s;uch thing as was expre&s;&s;ed; we are heartily &s;ory, and doe freely acknowledge the &s;ame, profe&s;&s;ing that we hold it an high offence to wrong the po<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">re&s;t particular man, ye<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">, if <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> enemie; nor ever dur&s;t wee publi&s;h that again&s;t the Parliament<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">
<PB N="100" REF="59">and Kingdomes pre&s;ent enemie (much more again&s;t their Friends) which we did not receive from any good hands, as truth.</HI></P>
<P>Whereby we may perceive the perplexity of his mind, which makes him <HI>recant,</HI> and <HI>recant,</HI> in both &s;en&s;es of this ambiguous terme; for he <HI>recants,</HI> that is, he confe&s;&s;eth his errour thus, <HI>&V;nder|&s;tanding now from others that the Petitions had no &s;uch words, ner contained any &s;uch thing as was expre&s;&s;ed, we are heartily &s;ory, and do freely acknowledge the &s;ame:</HI> where is one kind of recantation; and withall he recants in another kind, that is, he &s;ings over againe the &s;ame har&s;h note, wherein he was far out of time from the tenour of truth, telling the Reader thus much in way of Iu&s;tification, <HI>What was in&s;erted we received from a good Author, and &s;tuding the Hou&s;e of Commons to be <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> affected with what came from both, as that which might be of evill con&s;equence, w<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters"> therefore were the readier to believe it might amount to &s;o much as we were told;</HI> which is to make your &s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">der of the petitioners the &s;en&s;e of the Hou&s;e of Commons, and the hand that brought that &s;en&s;e a good hand; and if &s;o, you have handled the matter very ill, both in re&s;pect of con&s;cience and di&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">re|tion; for either the Hou&s;e of Comm<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="3 letters"> thought &s;o ill of the Peti|tioners, as you have now the &s;econd time a&s;&s;erted, or not; if they did not, (as no wi&s;e man will believe that &s;o many wi&s;e men as &s;hould denominate the whole Hou&s;e, could &s;o much mi&s;-judge &s;o humble, and faire dealing an addre&s;&s;e <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">nto them) then you wrong them as well as the Petitioners, in calling that <HI>a good h<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">d,</HI> which brought you &s;uch a &s;candalous mi&s;m<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">erpretation of them both; and &s;o in &s;tead of clearing your owne con&s;cience, you corrupt i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> a|gaine with a new guilt.</P>
<P>If the Hou&s;e of Commons did &s;o conceive of the Petitioners, as you have publi&s;hed before, you have indi&s;cre<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">tly de&s;erted the true information you had from them <HI>by a good hand,</HI> as you call it twice, (but how good &s;oever you take it to be, there be &s;ome fal&s;e fingers in it, i<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> it wrote that to you, which you have written to others) and have m<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="3 letters"> your &s;elf an offender above the degree of your <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> for though the tale you were told were mat<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">rially an untruth, it was not fo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">mally a &s;lander in you, while you did but publi&s;h it, not as a|ny thing made or <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> by you, <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ot as received by report from an <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> with your&s;elfe of much <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> for his tru&s;ty Intelli|gence.
<PB N="101" REF="59">And yet I conceive it had been a part of good manners, to have forborne the divulging of &s;uch newes, of &s;o great moment, wherein not only the integ<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">y of the Common Councell, and Mi|ni&s;ters of <HI>London,</HI> but the prudence of the Honourable Hou&s;e of Commons, was highly concerned, unle&s;&s;e they had given you war|rant to proclaim to the world, that which in &s;uch ca&s;es is, or &s;hould be kept within the compa&s;&s;e of their owne walls.</P>
<P>You conclude, as you began, with commendation of your &s;elfe, for the <HI>innocency</HI> of your <HI>intentions,</HI> and <HI>charitablene&s;&s;e</HI> of your <HI>af|fection;</HI> &s;aying in your fir&s;t lines, <HI>There pa&s;t us the la&s;t weeke &s;ome|thing that was di&s;plea&s;ing both to the Common Councell, and like|wi&s;e to the Clergie, to neither of which we intended the lea&s;t di&s;plea|&s;ure;</HI> and you end with the &s;ame &s;elfe conceit wherein you be|gan, for you tell us in the clo&s;e of your &s;peech that you <HI>hold it <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> high offence to wrong the poore&s;t particular man, yea, if an enemy; nor dur&s;t we</HI> (&s;ay you) <HI>ever publi&s;h that again&s;t the Parliaments and Kingdomes pre&s;ent enemie, much more</HI> (<HI>much le&s;&s;e</HI> you &s;hould &s;ay) <HI>again&s;t their friends, which we did not receive from very good hands as truth.</HI></P>
<P>If you &s;ay this in &s;inceritie, we &s;hall &s;ee &s;ome clearer evidence of your con&s;cientious acknowledgement (then that contradictory confe&s;&s;ion can be accompted, which is like an <HI>Iliaca pa&s;&s;ie</HI> in the belly, and bowels of your retractation, though the head and loot of it be &s;utably qualified) of your wronging, not of a &s;ingle, or a pri|vate enemy, but of a numerous &s;ociety of the mo&s;t publique, Ho|nourable, and venerable Friends and Votaries of the Parliament in the Kingdome; which if you &s;eriou&s;ly con&s;ider, you cannot &s;atisfie your &s;elfe, much le&s;&s;e can you expect that they &s;hould re&s;t &s;atisfied with &s;uch a recanting recantation, as you have now made; if o|ther wi&s;e, this Paper will a&s;&s;ure the Intelligent Reader, that as <HI>Bel|&s;hazzars</HI> government, &s;o your repentance, is <HI>weighted in the ballan<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">e, and found wanting,</HI> Dan. 5.27. But untill I know the wor&s;t, my charitie di&s;po&s;eth me to hope the be&s;t, and my hope is that you are on the mending hand, and &s;o fare you well.</P>
<P>Now for the bold <HI>Britain<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">,</HI> who brags of his daring &s;pirit, and would have every man to turne coward in a good Cau&s;e, for <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> of his courage in a <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word">; yet it &s;eemeth &s;ome body <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> the <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word">
<PB N="102" REF="60">to tell him of his mi&s;carriage towards the Magi&s;trates, and Mini|&s;ters of the Citie, in &s;uch &s;ort, that (as <HI>Salu&s;t</HI> &s;aid to <HI>Cicero</HI>)
<NOTE N="*" PLACE="marg"><HI>Si quam vo|luptatem male dicendo cepisti, eam male audi|end<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter"> amittas.</HI> Orat. Salu&s;t. in Ciceron. Cicer. Orat. p. 671.</NOTE> <HI>If he tooke any delight in &s;peaking what he ought not, he may lo&s;e it againe by hearing what he would not;</HI> and I mu&s;t now doe it the &s;econd time, by giving him another check for his <HI>vanitie in mag|nifying him&s;elfe, and his injurie in vilifying &s;uch as he cannot &s;uffi|ciently honour.</HI></P>
<P>For him&s;elfe, he makes as if he were a man of &s;uch high ele|vation, that it is a &s;tooping below his genius. to have any thing to doe (though by way of reproofe) with &s;uch a de&s;picable company, as the Court of Common Councell, and the Mini&s;ters of the City; whom he would not meddle with, were it not to &s;erve the Par|liament; <HI>and &s;erve them I dare,</HI> &s;aith he, <HI>in as high a nature as any man, and &s;hall in all things comply with their proceedings, and endea|vour to make this compliance univer&s;all.</HI></P>
<P><HI>Were it not to &s;erve the Parliament?</HI> For your &s;ervice to the Parliament, M^r. <HI>Brit.</HI> I would not have you to be confident either in your owne performances, or of their acceptance, or of the good effects it hath brought forth among the people of the Kingdome; there are &s;ome, who (though they doe not bragge of wit as you doe) have a great deale more wi&s;dome then you have, and they &s;ay, you have begotten much malignitie in many again&s;t the Par|liament, and confirmed it in others, and have much weakened the hands of their mo&s;t con&s;cionable friends, by the licentious extra|vangancie of your Pen beyond all bounds of grace, or mode&s;ty; and they further adde, (which hone&s;t men will lay hold on as a promi&s;e, but you perhaps will take as a threatning) that they will trace your irregular &s;teps from the fir&s;t page of your fir&s;t Pamphlet, to this pre&s;ent of the number 945. and repre&s;ent you &s;o in one entire deli|neation, and di&s;covery, as (if you be not a man of impenetrable im|pudence) will make you a&s;hamed of your owne re&s;emblance.</P>
<P>And for your particular &s;ervice you pretend to doe unto the Parliament, in abu&s;ing the Petitioners. I beleeve they will have lit|tle cau&s;e to give you thanks, much le&s;&s;e any reall reward for your painer; &s;ince it will &s;carce lye in your power to doe them a greater di&s;honour, then to make good men beleeve, and Malignants in&s;ult, that their mo&s;t potent, and beneficent, I may &s;ay munificent A&s;&s;i|&s;tants,
<PB N="103" REF="60">the Citizens, and their mo&s;t faithfull (and not altogether impotent or unu&s;efull &s;ervants) the Mini&s;ters of the Citie of <HI>Lon|don,</HI> either give, or take &s;uch offence at each other, as may tend to a rupture; but the hope is there will be pre&s;ent helpe, and an effe|ctuall Antidote again&s;t this &s;candall, in the <HI>Apologeticall Narrative</HI> of the Petitions, as now it is pre&s;ented to publique view; which will be the more expedite and prevalent in its operation, by the little credit you have with all &s;uch as read your papers as the dictates of a Poet, not of an Hi&s;torian; and you are like Sir to have le&s;&s;e credit hereafter, and to doe the Parliament le&s;&s;e &s;ervice then you have done (if ever you did any worthy acceptance) becau&s;e you profe&s;&s;e you <HI>will in all things comply with their proceedings:</HI> For,</P>
<P N="1">1. No body will beleeve you will be &s;o regular in you writing, as they are in their Parliamentary pa&s;&s;ages.</P>
<P N="2">2. When you &s;ay, you <HI>will in all things comply with their pro|ceedings,</HI> you mu&s;t either &s;uppo&s;e <HI>that they cannot erre</HI> (which is farre from their thoughts, for they know it is a pitifull, and peril|lous ignorance, or perver&s;ene&s;&s;e, not to acknowledge their huma|nitie, <HI>P&s;al.</HI> 9.20. and that it is the pre&s;umption of the Papall Con|clave, not a Priviledge of Parliament, to a&s;&s;ume an infallible gui|dance in their determinations) or <HI>that they may erre,</HI> and then we mu&s;t think, that though they doe &s;o, you re&s;olve to be on their &s;ide, be it right or wrong; if &s;o, doe you not tell the world that your complyance with them, hath more of policy in it, then of con|&s;cience? and will it not readily follow, that &s;uch a <HI>Mercurius</HI> at <HI>We&s;tmin&s;ter,</HI> would ea&s;ily turne to an <HI>Aulicus</HI> at <HI>Oxford,</HI> if (which God forbid) the Royall Prerogative &s;hould &s;o farre advance, as to plunder the Parliament of their ancient and Honourable Privi|ledges.</P>
<P>The other Animadver&s;ion upon <HI>Britanicus</HI> this weeke concern|eth <HI>the vilifying of the Petitioners,</HI> whom <HI>Lucian</HI> like he fals upon in this &s;cornfull and jeering manner: <HI>It is a fine humour in any to cry, We will have this, we will have that done, Come let's petition,</HI> he &s;hould have &s;aid, <HI>we would have this or that done;</HI> for <HI>we will have this or that done</HI> are termes rather of the <HI>Imperative,</HI> then the <HI>Optative</HI> Mood, fitter for Commanders, then Petitioners. Be&s;ides
<PB N="104" REF="61">Sir, you know there be a &s;ort of men, who have taken upon them, without petitioning to the Parliament, or Authoritie from the Parliament, to &s;et up a Government of them&s;elves; which the Petitioners dare not attempt without warrant from the Parlia|ment; this is a <HI>humour</HI> indeed, a <HI>fine humour</HI> of a new impre&s;&s;ion; but when did you be&s;tow a jeere or a taunt upon them? in this &s;ure|ly you bewray your partialitie, and &s;omewhat wor&s;e which you may heare of hereafter; but &s;ay on.</P>
<P><HI>Yes I warrant you we are wi&s;e State&s;men, know the due times and &s;ea&s;ons well enough, and though we lye under the decke, are able to di&s;cerne as well as they that &s;it at the &s;terne.</HI> Did the Petitioners take upon them to be State&s;men? did they not profe&s;&s;edly di&s;|claime &s;o vaine a conceit, when in a mode&s;t and humble way they came to the Parliament, as to State&s;men, the Fathers and Phy&s;i|cians of the State, to receive from their prudent re&s;olutions pre|&s;ent remedies again&s;t the maladies wherewith the Citie is dan|gerou&s;ly infected, and infe&s;ted? and was it not time to complain, when they perceived the &s;ubtle in&s;inuations of Schi&s;me creepe in|to their families, and found it had &s;tolne their wives from their bo&s;omes, their children and &s;ervants from Oeconomicall commu|nion in their families, and from hearing Orthodoxe Divines in the publique Churches of the Citie, to &s;ort them&s;elves under erro|neous, and hereticall Teachers in private Conventicles?</P>
<P>And whereas you would degrade the Petitioners <HI>&s;itting at the &s;t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">rne</HI> to <HI>lying under the d<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">cke,</HI> though you (for feare or &s;hame) may have occa&s;ion to play lea&s;t in &s;ight, and to lurke under the hatches to &s;ecure your &s;elfe, the Petitioners are (for the chiefe p<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="2 letters">t of them) eminently con&s;picuous; divers of the one &s;ort &s;it upon the Tribunall of Authoritie, and all of the other weekly appeare vi&s;ible to common view in their Pulpits; and have &s;o much advan|tage ground for di&s;covery of the evils of the times, and places they live in, that it can be no di&s;paragement to the Parliaments pru|dence, in many particulars to receive informations from them.</P>
<P>But they goe beyond their bounds, as <HI>Britanicus</HI> chargeth them, for <HI>their duty leads them <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word"> further</HI> (&s;aith he) <HI>then to pre&s;ent matter of grievance in things already e&s;tabli&s;hed, not to demand the establi&s;ment of any thing <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 word">; this mu&s;t be left in the Parliament,
<PB N="105" REF="61">who (it is pre&s;umed, and we mu&s;t hold to this ma<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">ime) will neglect nothing nece&s;&s;ary or convenient.</HI></P>
<P>Now he takes upon him to play the Ca&s;ui&s;t, and to re&s;olve both po&s;itively, and negatively, how farre men may proceed to peti|tion, how farre not; they may (&s;aith he) <HI>pre&s;ent matter of grie|vance in things already e&s;tabli&s;hed, not demand the e&s;tabli&s;hment of any new thing:</HI> This Aphori&s;me is framed of purpo&s;e for the pul|ling downe of the Prelacy, and again&s;t the &s;etting up of the Pre&s;|bytery, that <HI>Independencie</HI> (and under that Title all Sects of what &s;ort &s;oever) may be &s;et up, and &s;pread abroad without re&s;traint; but a man would think it more rea&s;onable, that when things are e&s;ta|bli&s;hed, they &s;hould command either a&s;&s;ent or &s;ilence, but in the want of nece&s;&s;ary things, the pre&s;enting of reque&s;ts for &s;upply to tho&s;e that are able to grant them, hath no affinitie with a fault, but rather hath the nature of a dutie, and therefore they who petition|ed the Parliament for Ordination of Mini&s;ters in a new way, with|out Bi&s;hops, (new to this State, though mo&s;t ancient in the Church of Chri&s;t) were never blamed, but approved by the Parliament, and accordingly an Ordinance pa&s;&s;ed both the Honourable Hou&s;es, for enabling a certaine number of Divines to put it in practi&s;e; much more cau&s;e is there to approve the Petitioners, who received a command for the choice of Church Governours, whereto with|out further direction, and warrant, they could not performe com|pleat obedience as they de&s;ired.</P>
<P>And for that he &s;aith of <HI>leaving all to the Parliament,</HI> in confi|dence of their univer&s;all care, <HI>neglecting nothing which may be ne|ce&s;&s;ary and convenient,</HI> it hath a pretence of re&s;pect to the Parlia|ment, but the drift of it is to make all tho&s;e (who de&s;ire a deliver|ance out of dangerous confu&s;ion, by a &s;etting up, and &s;ettling a regular Government) remi&s;&s;e in their mediation for it, while In|dependents intentively be&s;tirre them&s;elves in &s;everall Counties to make choice of &s;uch for Knights and Burge&s;&s;es, as favour their faction, and quicken their Patrons with unce&s;&s;ant importunitie to expedite their de&s;igne in Parliament, in Committees, in the Army; and &s;ome of them are &s;uch <HI>ubiquitaries,</HI> within the Kingdome, and without, (to worke them&s;elves up to a capitulating partie) that none but that great Peripatetick, 1 <HI>Pet.</HI> 5.8. goeth beyond them
<PB N="106" REF="62">for &s;edulitie in pro&s;ecution of a plot. And yet what&s;oever he aimeth at in this diver&s;ion or prohibition of Petitions, the Parlia|ment may have need of them and may make good u&s;e of them, (yea and as &s;ome Antipresbyterians bragge,
<NOTE N="a" PLACE="marg"><HI>The mo&s;t and best things that ever this Parlia|ment did, were first m<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="pdcc" EXTENT="1 letter">tioned by private men, and then autho|ri&s;ed and esta|bli&s;hed by them.</HI> The <HI>Post&s;cript</HI> of the Libellous Pamphlet cal|led <HI>Lilburnes Englands birth|right.</HI></NOTE> have done &s;o) and may be very well plea&s;ed therewith.</P>
<P>For in&s;tance, having a purpo&s;e to ordaine the Presbyteriall Go|vernment which (as the
<NOTE N="b" PLACE="marg">The Copy of the <HI>Remon|&s;trance</HI> lately delivered to the <HI>A&s;&s;embly</HI> by <HI>T.G.I.B.</HI> &amp;c.</NOTE> Independents confe&s;&s;e) <HI>they have voted already,</HI> it may be matter of much incouragement to them to per|fect their purpo&s;e in that behalfe, &s;ince they &s;ee &s;uch a generall ac|cord of the Common Councell, and Mini&s;tery of the Citie petiti|oning together for the e&s;tabli&s;hment thereof.</P>
<P>This may &s;uffice for the &s;econd Edition of this &s;candalous con|tumely again&s;t the Petitions, and Petitioners of <HI>London;</HI> for who&s;e &s;akes (they being &s;o many in number, and &s;o eminent in ranke, and order,) and for the good Cau&s;e wherein they, and many more are &s;o much engaged, I have taken the opportunity that was ca&s;t in my way to make this Apologie, otherwi&s;e I &s;hould not think it meete to be&s;tow my mo&s;t idle minutes upon &s;o meane an imployment, as a conflict, or conte&s;tation with &s;uch Antagoni&s;ts as now I have an&s;wered. Who if they appeare againe with any degree of folly, or offence in this Cau&s;e, above that which di&s;cretion may di&s;daine, or Religion mu&s;t pardon, though I be &s;ilent (which yet I doe not promi&s;e) there will be a cour&s;e taken to make &s;ome more &s;en&s;ible of their un&s;ufferable exce&s;&s;es, and others more circum&s;pect, and cautelous, then to runne the hazard of their de&s;erved reward.</P>
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