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<DATE>2009-10-26</DATE>
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<NAME>John Pas</NAME>
<RESP>MURP</RESP>
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<ITEM>Checklist:
x Add TEMPHEAD, change DATE, validate
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x Review structure, use FRONT, BODY, BACK or rarely GROUP
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<DIV1 TYPE="title page">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<P>AN UNTAUGHT TEACHER Witne&s;&s;ed again&s;t.</P>
<P>OR, The old Bottles mouth opened, It's Wine poured forth, drunk of Drunkards, denyed of them who have ta&s;ted of the new.</P>
<P>That is to &s;ay, the un&s;ound, un|&s;ea&s;oned, un&s;avory Doctrines, and opinions of <HI>Matthew Caffyn,</HI> Bapti&s;t-Teacher laid open, who in the County of <HI>Su&s;&s;ex,</HI> is cryed up to be as their Battle Axe, and Wea|pon of Warre, who as <HI>Jannes</HI> and <HI>Jambres</HI> rides aloft, and be&s;tirs him&s;elf with the Magick Rod of his lies, &s;lan|ders, a&s;per&s;ions, and un&s;ound Doctrines, labours to &s;trengthen the hands of carnal profe&s;&s;ors, and to keep the beloved of God in bondage: for who&s;e redemption the Lord is ri&s;en, and is going forth in maje&s;ty, and great glory, and will triumph over all who have triumphed.</P>
<P>Which Doctrines, and un&s;a|vory &s;peeches were received from his own mouth, part of them at a meeting of the people called Quakers, at <HI>Crowley</HI> in <HI>Su&s;&s;ex,</HI> others thereof at his own hou&s;e neere <HI>South-water,</HI> before me and <HI>John Slee,</HI> upon the fifth day of the &s;eventh moneth, 1655.</P>
<Q><P>No Weapon that is formed again&s;t thee &s;hall pro&s;per, every tongue that &s;hall ri&s;e against thee in judgement, thou &s;halt condemn: this is the Heritage of the Servants of the Lord, and their righteou&s;ne&s;s is of me, &s;aith the Lord, <HI>I&s;a. 54.17.</HI></P>
<BIBL>Tho: Law&s;on. John Slee.</BIBL></Q>
<P><HI>LONDON,</HI> Printed for <HI>Giles Calvert,</HI> at the <HI>Black-&s;pread-Eagle,</HI> at the We&s;t end of <HI>Pauls,</HI> 1655.</P>
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<DIV1 TYPE="text">
<PB REF="2">
<PB N="1" REF="2">
<HEAD>AN Vntaught toungle&s;s Teacher laid open.</HEAD>
<HEAD TYPE="sub">The un&s;ound Doctrines of <HI>M. C. B. T.</HI> witne&s;&s;ed against.</HEAD>
<P N="1">1. HE &s;aid &s;everall times to us, that he knew not what the tongue of the learned was, being asked what it was.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer here out of thy own mouth, thy &s;hame and na|kedne&s;s is laid open, and to every wi&s;e man who&s;e eye is in his head: art thou made manife&s;t to be the lying mouth, which <HI>Jeremiah,</HI> who had the tongue of the learned witne&s;|&s;ed again&s;t, who bore witne&s;s from the mouth of the Lord again&s;t &s;uch as run; and were not &s;ent of the Lord, &s;o did not profit the people at all, <HI>Jer.</HI> 23.32. here thou art, thy own mouth hath declared it, who is gone forth, calles the &s;elfe a teacher, yet confe&s;&s;es thou knowes not what thy tongue of the learned is. <HI>I&s;ay</HI> had the tongue of the learn|ed given him to mini&s;ter a word in &s;ea&s;on to the weary, <HI>I&s;ay</HI> 50.4. he did not mini&s;ter till he had received the tongue of the learned; for thereby he knew what to mini&s;ter as he &s;aith; but thou takes upon thee to mini&s;ter before thou re|ceive the tongue of the learned or know what it is: never did any of the holy men of God mini&s;ter, till they received
<PB N="2" REF="3">the tongue of the learned; but thou in thy own will art run un&s;ent, confe&s;&s;ing thou knowes not what it is, &s;top thy mouth thou lyer, thou evil Bea&s;t, who runs up and down pu&s;hing at the Mini&s;ters of the everla&s;ting Go&s;pel with thy horns, &s;uch <HI>Paul</HI> called evill Bea&s;ts, lyars, and &s;low bellies, <HI>Titus</HI> 1.10, 11. who run and were not &s;ent, as thou do&s;t, who yet knowes not what the tongue of the learned is, who &s;ubverts whole hou&s;es, all that flock after thee, taking upon thee to teach others, and art untaught thy &s;elf, only ha&s;t trea&s;ured up the letter in thy corrupt minde, and mini&s;ters it forth to others, as thou imagines of it, &s;o &s;teals the word from others, as the fal&s;e Prophets did, which <HI>Jeremiah</HI> cryed again&s;t, <HI>Jer.</HI> 23.30. and the Lord is again&s;t thee, as he was again&s;t them, who &s;tole words one from another, as thou ha&s;t &s;tollen the words of the Prophets, Chri&s;t and his Apo&s;tles, and trea&s;ures them up in thy corrupt minde; but knowes not the tongue of the learned, as thy fore-fathers did not, who &s;tole the word from their Neighbours: &s;o be a|&s;hamed of thy Mini&s;try.</P>
<P N="2">2. He &s;aid, he mini&s;tted from the word of truth, other|wi&s;e called the Scripture, through the a&s;&s;i&s;tance of the &s;pirit of God.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, to &s;ay that the word of truth is called the Sctip|ture, or that the Scripture is called the word of truth, that is a lie: &s;earch the Scripture, and therein &s;hew it me, where the Scripture is called the word of truth, thy ignorance of the word of truth, here appeares, as of the tongue of the learned, 2 <HI>Tim.</HI> 2.15. <HI>Tymothy</HI> rightly divided the word of truth, but he came not by the will of man, and he was a Mini&s;ter of the &s;pirit, and not of the letter; and <HI>James</HI> he &s;aid, Of his own will begat he us, by the word of truth, <HI>James</HI> 1.18. is this the Scripture? is it the Scripture by which God works, reforms, changes, &s;anctifies, and begets again? or is it not the incorruptible &s;eed, which is the word of God, the word of truth, which lives and endures for ever, 1 <HI>Pet.</HI> 1.23, 24, 25. doth the Scripture live, doth it endure
<PB N="3" REF="3">for ever, is it the incorruptible &s;eed? doth the Father work, and beget a new by it, or by his Son, who is the way, the truth and the life; now thou may &s;ay, we deny the Scrip|ture, becau&s;e we bow not to thy fancies &amp; opinions; but the Scripture we own to be a true declaration, <HI>Luke</HI> 1.1. te&s;ti|fying of him, who from the womb of love is given, to brui&s;e the Serpents head, in whom, and by whom God changes, reforms, converts, &s;anctifies, ju&s;tifies, and begets anew, <HI>John</HI> 5.39, 40. this is the word of truth, of it the Scripture te&s;ti|fies.</P>
<P N="3">3. And he &s;aid he mini&s;tered from the Scripture, through the a&s;&s;i&s;tance of the &s;pirit of God.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, the blind may lead the blind, and deceive the blind; but the &s;eeing deny all blind guides, &s;uch as thou art, who &s;aith, thou mini&s;ters from the letter: here thou art &s;hut out from all the holy men of God, who were Mi|ni&s;ters of the &s;pirit, and not of the letter, as <HI>Paul</HI> was, 2 <HI>Cor.</HI> 3.6. but thou art a Mini&s;ter of the letter, and not of the &s;pi|rit, as thou makes it appear, who confe&s;&s;es thou knowes not what the tongue of the learned is, and holy men of God &s;poke as they were moved by the holy Gho&s;t. 2 <HI>Pet.</HI> 1.21.</P>
<P N="4">4. And thou tells of the a&s;&s;i&s;tance of the &s;pirit. I an&s;wer, for &s;hame give over, and lay a&s;ide thy covers and pretences, what? tell of the &s;pirit, &amp; could not tell me what the Cro&s;s of Chri&s;t is: what? art thou &s;o impudent, and &s;hamele&s;s, as to tell of the a&s;&s;i&s;tance of the &s;pirit, and yet acknowledges, thou knows not what is the tongue of the learned? let the wi&s;e in heart judge, and the lea&s;t in the knowledge of God con&s;ider, if thou be not in confu&s;ion, one of <HI>Babels</HI> builders, which God is comming to throw down, and thy pretence of the &s;pirit will not hide thee, who mini&s;ters the letter in the dead minde, and keeps in death, &s;uch as follow thee and &s;earch the Scripture, and own thy example: the fal&s;e Prophets in the dayes of <HI>Jeremiah,</HI> who had not the tongue of the learned, had nothing from the mouth of the Lord, but got the words of the true Prophets, and did pre|tend
<PB N="39" REF="4">the &s;pirit, and did u&s;e their tongues, &s;aying, the Lord &s;aith, when as they had nothing but the letter, when as he had not &s;poken to them, &s;uch the Lord was again&s;t, <HI>Jer.</HI> 23.30.31, 32. this is thy example, own it; &s;huffle thy &s;elf from among the&s;e dreamers, if thou can, who knowes not the Cro&s;&s;e of Chri&s;t, nor the tongue of the learned, and ha&s;t got the words of the holy men of God, into thy vain, wily, &s;hifty, peevi&s;h, &s;ubtle, crafty, and untoward minde, and there trea&s;ures them up, and mini&s;ters them forth and u&s;es thy tongue, and tells of the a&s;&s;i&s;tance of the &s;pirit.</P>
<P N="5">5. He &s;aid, the means that leads to &s;alvation, is without man, that is not dwelling in his mortal body.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, for all thy profe&s;&s;ion thou art got no further then the Pope, who talks of a Chri&s;t without, means of &s;alvation without, as thou do&s;t; but thou, who&s;e Religi|on and Kingdom is in words, and in Lip-talk thou knows not, neither what is the means that leads to &s;alvation nor where the means is, and thou art wallowing in filth, and in the pollutions of the world, &s;o knowes not the word of &s;alvation, nor where it is: ha&s;t thou not read in the Scrip|ture, that to them that are &s;aved the preaching of the Cro&s;&s;e is the power of God, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 1.18. if thou knew this Cro&s;&s;e, what it is, where it is, what its operation is, what it takes hold on, what ground it &s;trikes at, and what it works out, and what it lets in: if this thou knew, thou would not dream, and imagine as thou do&s;t. Chri&s;t is the light of the world, and lighteth every man that commeth into the world, and from him light &s;hines in darkne&s;s; but darkne&s;s comprehends it not, <HI>John</HI> 1.5.9. and this light is within, and &s;hews thee thy evil deeds, and the pollutions thou lives in, which if thou loved it, that would lead thee to him that gave it, even to Chri&s;t, who hath given to eve|ry man a mea&s;ure according to his ability, which mea&s;ure is in man, and &s;hews all wicked thoughts, purpo&s;es and in|tentions, that ari&s;e out of the heart of man; and who loves it, it leads to him, who gave it out of evil to him alone,
<PB N="40" REF="4">who is the head of the Church, the Saviour of the body, in whom alone is &s;alvation, and not in any other name un|der Heaven: this is the corner-&s;tone, who hath given a light, a mea&s;ure to every man that comes into the world, <HI>John</HI> 1.9. <HI>Acts</HI> 4.10, 11, 12. t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="UOM" EXTENT="1 letter"> is &s;tone thou &s;ets at naught, who art a fooli&s;h builder, &s;eeking a way to &s;alvation with|out thee, &s;o art out of the Doctrine of Chri&s;t, who &s;aid, go not forth, when men cry, lo here, lo there, <HI>Mat.</HI> 24. and grace in mea&s;ure hath appeared unto all men, which brings &s;alvation, <HI>Tit.</HI> 2.11, 12. this grace in mea&s;ure is in all men, &s;hewing evil, as evil is intended in thy minde; and him who loves it, it teaches him to deny ungodline&s;s, &s;o brings to &s;alvation; but thou, and all who live in ungodline&s;s, and worldly lu&s;ts, turns it into <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="UOM" EXTENT="1 span">, &s;o are of old ordained to condemnation, <HI>Jude</HI> 4. <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="UOM" EXTENT="1 word"> that which may be known of God is manife&s;t in man, <HI>Rom.</HI> 1.19. it is in man, that &s;hews him evil, and who love and obey it, it leads out of evil, and guides &s;uch into the knowledge of God, to witne&s;s the &s;alvation of God; and from this thou art gone: &s;o in thy corrupt minde art pleading for means without, to lead to &s;alvation: The Serpents meat is du&s;t, and for, his meat he wrangles and pleads; but the way of God is a way of holine&s;&s;e, which no unclean per&s;on, no Lyon, no ravenous Bea&s;t walks in, <HI>I&s;ay</HI> 35.8.9. but all un|clean per&s;ons, and ravenous Bea&s;ts can conform unto, and imitate the practices of them who gave out the Scripture, who were the ran&s;omed of the Lord, as thou do&s;t, and plead for that in which thou may&s;t live at ea&s;e: &s;o you de|ny Chri&s;t, who hath given to every one a mea&s;ure to lead to him who gives it; and the Scripture in its place we own, which te&s;tifies of Chri&s;t, <HI>Jo:</HI> 5.39.40. but to &s;et it in the room of Chri&s;t, we mu&s;t not; but are witne&s;&s;es again&s;t you, who deny him, and &s;et the Scripture in his place.</P>
<P N="6">6. He &s;aid, God is one thing, and his glory another thing, as &s;aith he, my hand is one thing, and this book in my hand, is another thing.</P>
<PB N="9" REF="5">
<P>I an&s;wer, &s;ilence dreamer, who would divide God, and his glory; and from God, and his glory thou art &s;eperat|ed, and God, and his glory thy eye mu&s;t not &s;ee, but de&s;truction, who art an enemy to the Cro&s;s of Chri&s;t, and thy minde is in earthly things; tell of God, and his glo|ry, and live in the pollutions of the world, when as no uncleane thing dwells with him; and it is Virgins that love him, and all thy corrupt rea&s;onings, compari&s;ons, and arguings of God, and his glory, and for condemna|tion, and that minde which calls God one thing, and his glory another thing, is accur&s;ed, are from God, and his glory thou art accur&s;ed, who would divide God, and his glory a&s;under.</P>
<P N="7">7. He &s;aid the Scripture hath in it, the minde of God revealed, &s;o is a rule to guide men to Chri&s;t.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, holy men of God, to them, and in them, was the minde of God revealed, by the Spirit, before the Scripture was written, and his minde not any one comes unto, but in whom the Spirit of God ari&s;es, and rules: as thou ha&s;t the Scripture, which declares of the minde of God, but his minde thou ha&s;t not, but mindes earthly things: &s;aith <HI>Paul,</HI> we have the minde of Chri&s;t, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 2.16. and <HI>Phil.</HI> 2.5. let this minde be in you which was al&s;o in Chri&s;t Je&s;us: none have the minde of Chri&s;t, but them in whom Chri&s;t dwells, though they may have the Scrip|ture, a declaration of his minde, but, conforming to the practi&s;es of the holy men of God, in whom the minde of God was, in the will of man, this lets not in the minde of God: but the cro&s;&s;e, which &s;hews the carnall minde, which profe&s;&s;es the Scripture, and crucifies the carnall minde, the &s;ame lets in the nature, and the minde of Chri&s;t; the Jews had the Scripture, and covered them|&s;elves therewith, but had not the minde of God, but per|&s;ecuted him, whom the Father &s;ent, of whom the Father beares witne&s;s.</P>
<PB N="7" REF="5">
<P>And thou &s;ai&s;t the Scripture is a rule to guide men to Chri&s;t, when as Chri&s;t him&s;elfe &s;aid, that none could come to him, but as the Father drew him, and every man that heard, and learned of the Father, came to him, <HI>John</HI> 6.44.45. Here thy minde is contrary to the minde of Chri&s;t, Chri&s;t &s;aid, it is his Father that draws to him, and thou &s;aies it is the Scripture: herein thou art <HI>Antichri&s;t,</HI> oppo&s;ing Chri&s;t, and his doctrine, and here thou &s;ets the Scrip|ture in the &s;eate of God, &s;aying the Scripture is a rule to guide to Chri&s;t, when as the Scripture &s;aith, none comes to Chri&s;t except the Father draw him: this, and &s;uch like is the mi&s;t, that thou keeps people in darkne&s;s withall, but now thou art &s;een.</P>
<P N="8">8. Againe <HI>Mathew Caffyn</HI> &s;aid, that the Scripture doth &s;o farr reveale God, and Chri&s;t to a Creature, as that he walking up to its revelation, to his lives end, with a &s;in|gle heart, &s;hall be eternally &s;aved.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, let all who know any thing of God judge, if thou do not herein &s;hut out thy &s;elfe, both from the know|ledge of the Father, and the Son, &s;o art a heathen, not knowing God, <HI>Math.</HI> 11.27. no man knows the Son, but the Father, neither knows any man the Father, but the Son, and he to whom the Son reveals him: herethou art <HI>Antichri&s;t,</HI> pulling the Crowne from off his head, and giving it to the Scripture, &s;aying the Scripture reveals God, and Chri&s;t, &amp;c: when as the Scripture &s;aith, the Son reveals the Father: here thou wre&s;ts the Scripture, out of its place, which doth but te&s;tifie of Chri&s;t, <HI>John</HI> 5.39.40. and &s;ets it in the roome of Chri&s;t, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 2.10. God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit, for the Spirit &s;earches all things, yea the deep things of God; and thou &s;ai&s;t, the Scripture reveals: here thou &s;ets the Scripture, in the room of the Spirit, <HI>Gal.</HI> 1.15.16. <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aid, God reveal|ed his Son in him, &s;o he preached him among the heathen: <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aid, God reveals his Son, and thou &s;aies the Scrip|ture reveals him, herein thou ha&s;t &s;et the Scripture in the room of God, &s;aying the Scripture reveals the Son, when
<PB N="8" REF="6">as the Scripture &s;aith, God reveals his Son, herein ha&s;t thou &s;et the Scripture in the roome of God, Chri&s;t and the Spirit: and that which may be knowne of God is manife&s;t in man, for God hath &s;hewed it unto him, <HI>Rom.</HI> 1.19. and the Lord reveals his &s;ecrets, to his &s;ervants, <HI>Amos,</HI> 3.7. and 1 <HI>Jo.</HI> 5.12. he that hath the Son hath life, he that hath not the Son hath not life, who onely gives an un|der&s;tanding heart, to know him that is true, 1 <HI>Jo.</HI> 5.20. here without life thou art, and without the knowledge of him that is true, &s;aying the Scripture reveals God, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> When as the Scripture &s;aith, it is the Son alone that gives an under&s;tanding heart, to know him that is true: O lier, &s;ee thy folly, and un&s;ound doctrines. The Angel is &s;ound|ing, and a Star from Heaven is falne, unto the earth, who hath the Key of the bottomle&s;s pit, the &s;ame to open, and &s;moke ari&s;es apace, <HI>Rev.</HI> 9.1.2. the wi&s;e &s;ee and con&s;ider.</P>
<P N="9">9. <HI>Mathew Caffyn</HI> &s;aid, that there is &s;o much of God, and Chri&s;t, revealed in the Scriptures to men, as, through faith therein, is a &s;ufficient means of &s;alvation.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, what ha&s;t thou to do, to tell of &s;alvation, who&s;e mouth is full of lies, and under who&s;e lips doth the poy|&s;on of a&s;ps appeare, and for condemnation thou art, who denies the Father, Son, and Spirit, and &s;ets the Scripture in the place thereof, powres forth here&s;ies, corrupt do|ctrines, and denies him, whom we witne&s;s to be able to &s;ave to the utmo&s;t, &s;uch as come to him, <HI>Heb.</HI> 7.25. this is the &s;tone, which &s;uch unskillfull builders as thou denies, and &s;ets the Scripture in his place, in whom alone is &s;alva|tion, <HI>Acts</HI> 4.10.11.12: but him thou knows not, &s;o lives in vaine jangling, and the &s;ufficient meanes which thou &s;peaks on, hath not &s;aved thee, and thou that would &s;et up any thing in the roome of Chri&s;t, in whom alone is &s;al|vation, or in thy devilli&s;h rea&s;on, would &s;et up any thing with Chri&s;t, to adde to his &s;ufficiency to &s;ave man, him thou knows not, but art for condemnation, with the light, which &s;hews the &s;in, and evill, which thou acts contrary to.</P>
<PB N="9" REF="6">
<P N="10">10. <HI>Matthew Caffyn</HI> &s;aid, no man hath eternall life now in him as po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ing it, but a promi&s;e of it, 1 <HI>Joh.</HI> 2.25.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, thou art turned from the light, wherewith Chri&s;t hath enlightned thee, which guides all that love it, up to life, &s;o the earth is &s;eated in thee, where the bea&s;t, and fal&s;e Prophet lodges, and the promi&s;e, which to thee is promi&s;ed, is the lake of fire, burning with brim&s;tone, <HI>Rev.</HI> 19.21. that is the promi&s;e to the bea&s;t, and fal&s;e Pro|phet, and he is the bea&s;t, who is out of the truth, and whether thou be out of the truth, yea, or nay, let thy ly|ing fables witne&s;&s;e, and he is the fal&s;e Prophet, who runs, but is not &s;ent of the Lord, and whether thou be &s;ent of the Lord, yea, or nay, let thy lies, thy own words witne&s;s who ha&s;t run &s;o long, and yet confe&s;&s;es, thou knows not what the tongue of the learned is, and thou that lives contrary to the light, knows not what they come to enjoy, and po&s;&s;e&s;&s;e, who obey the light, which comes from Chri&s;t, and leads to him, who is eternall life, 1 <HI>Jo.</HI> 4.3. every Spirit that confe&s;&s;es not, that Je&s;us Chri&s;t is come in the fle&s;h, is not of God, and this is that Spirit of Anti|chri&s;t, whereof you have heard, that it &s;hould come, and even now already is it in the world, but thou may &s;ay, thou knows, and confe&s;&s;es he came in the fle&s;h, 1655, yeares &s;ince: that we know, and the Pope confe&s;&s;es Chri&s;t as neare him as thou, but thou art Antichri&s;t, who do&s;t not know him ruling in thy mortall body, this they witne&s;&s;ed to whom the&s;e words were &s;poken, they were Children and had overcome them, and were of God, 1 <HI>Jo.</HI> 4.4. this they knew not by talking of him without them, but by po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ing him in them, who is greater then he that is in the world, even Je&s;us, who is eternall life, 1 <HI>Io.</HI> 4.4. <HI>Io.</HI> 5.24. &s;ome had everla&s;ting life, &s;ome were pa&s;&s;ed from death to life, 2 <HI>Cor.</HI> 4.10.11. <HI>Paul</HI> &s;pake of the life of Je&s;us being manife&s;t in the mortall body, and the life of Je&s;us is eternall, and 1 <HI>Io.</HI> 5.11, 12, 13, 20. &s;aith <HI>Iohn</HI> this is the re|cord, that God hath given to us, eternall life, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> and
<PB N="10" REF="7">the&s;e things have I written, &amp;c. that ye may know you have eternall life, and they were in the true God, and e|ternall life: how ignorant art thou of the letter, and yet dare call thy &s;elfe a Mini&s;ter of Chri&s;t, and 1 <HI>Io.</HI> 4. he that confe&s;&s;es, that Je&s;us is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God, and he that dwells in God, dwells in eternall life, God is eternall life, <HI>Io.</HI> 6.54.</P>
<P N="11">11. <HI>Mathew Caffyn</HI> &s;aid, that no man while he is upon earth comes to the end of faith.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, thou art exerci&s;ing thy &s;elfe in things that be too high for thee, why art thou &s;peaking of the end of faith, who ha&s;t not faith as a graine of mu&s;terd&s;eed, which removes mountains? The end of faith is the &s;alvation of the &s;oul, 1 <HI>Pet.</HI> 1.9. which the Apo&s;tle &s;poke of What do&s;t thou pre&s;&s;e after? thou wilt &s;ay, after the &s;alvation of the &s;oul. What, and if any come to enjoy that, which thou pre&s;&s;es after, wilt thou envy them, or deny the goodne&s;s of God towards them, <HI>Math.</HI> 1.21. Chri&s;t was given to &s;ave from &s;in, <HI>Paul</HI> and tho&s;e he &s;peaks of, were already &s;aved, 2 <HI>Tim.</HI> 1.9. <HI>Hed.</HI> 7.25. he is able to &s;ave to the utter|mo&s;t: the ingrafted word is able to &s;ave the &s;oul; <HI>Iames,</HI> 1.21. this is denied of thee, who lives in pollutions, and in the nature of the world: the light who ownes, which comes from Chfi&s;t, it lets man &s;ee a nece&s;&s;ity of a Saviour to &s;ave him from &s;in, and by little, and little begets faith in him, as that from &s;in, he &s;hall be &s;aved: now abiding the end of faith is witne&s;&s;ed, that is po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ed, which was beleived to be enjoyed, &s;o is Chri&s;t, the author, and fi|ni&s;her of faith: doth this beget carele&s;&s;ne&s;&s;e, or bring forth iniquity, no, who live in iniquity, &s;alvation, witne&s;s not, but the &s;ame that &s;aves from &s;in, keeps out of &s;in, all who abide in it, 1 <HI>Ioh.</HI> 3.6. but what is this to thee, who art one of the fooli&s;h women, that &s;ewes pillows to all Arme holes, and &s;laies the &s;ouls, that &s;hould not die; and &s;aves the &s;oules alive, that &s;hould not live, by thy lies, <HI>Ezek.</HI> 13.18.19.</P>
<PB N="11" REF="7">
<P N="12">12. He &s;aid, that that Chri&s;t that was crucified at <HI>Jeru|&s;alem,</HI> and role fle&s;h and bones, &amp;c. is not really in any man upon earth, but his &s;pirit is.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, no other Chri&s;t we own but him, who witne&s;|&s;ed a good confe&s;&s;ion before <HI>Pontius Pilate,</HI> and thou that knowes not that he is in thee, art a Reprobate, 2 <HI>Cor.</HI> 13.5: and the &s;ame <HI>Paul</HI> who &s;aid Chri&s;t is in you, except you be Reprobates, the &s;ame &s;aid, Chri&s;t lives in me, <HI>Gal.</HI> 2.20. Now if thou had been in the dayes of <HI>Paul,</HI> who &s;aid, Chri&s;t lived in him, would thou have told him, that Chri&s;t did not, it was his &s;pirit; or would thou have told him that Chri&s;t did not really live in him, or wilt thou &s;et Chri&s;t in one place, &amp; his &s;pirit in another, who is <HI>Emanuel,</HI> God with us, <HI>Mat.</HI> 1.23. and &s;aith Chri&s;t, I in them, and thou in me, <HI>Jo:</HI> 17.23.26. Now wi<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="UOM" EXTENT="1 letter">t thou oppo&s;e Chri&s;t, and &s;ay, he is not really in them: who is it here that denies Chri&s;t? who is it that wre&s;ts the Scriptures? and now thou art a lyar, who &s;aith, Chri&s;t is not really in any man upon earth, Chri&s;t &s;aith otherwi&s;e, whether mu&s;t Chri&s;t or thou be believed? He &s;aith, At that day ye &s;hall know, that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you, <HI>Jo:</HI> 14.20. and he that eats my fle&s;h, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him; but a wi&s;er then thou may &s;tumble at this, <HI>John</HI> 6.56. and Chri&s;t in you the hope of glory, <HI>Col.</HI> 1.27. Now this, thou that &s;tumbles at, is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, Chri&s;t is a &s;tumbling &s;tone.</P>
<P N="13">13. He &s;aid the Scripture is the word</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, that is another lie, and the Scripture is a wit|ne&s;s again&s;t thee, it &s;aith, God is the word, and the word became fle&s;h, and dwelt among&s;t the Saints, <HI>John</HI> 1.1.14. and <HI>Rev.</HI> 19.13. his name is called the word of God <HI>Rev.</HI> 19.13. Now the Scripture is a true Declaration, <HI>John</HI> 5.39.40. <HI>Luke</HI> 1.1.</P>
<P N="14">14. He &s;aid the Scripture was the word of Faith.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, that is another lie, and here thou denies Chri&s;t, who was before the World was, or the Scripture
<PB N="12" REF="8">was, or Here&s;ie, Schi&s;me, Antichri&s;t, or fal&s;e Prophet was. <HI>Heb.</HI> 12.2. who is the Authour and fini&s;her of faith. Now thou &s;ayes the Scripture is the word of faith: now then, how came <HI>Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, I&s;aac, Jacob</HI> and <HI>Jo|&s;eph:</HI> how came the&s;e to faith, and the re&s;t who were be|fore the letter was? here thou makes it manife&s;t, thou art faithle&s;s, not knowing the word of faith, but puts the let|ter in its room, and <HI>Rom.</HI> 10.8. <HI>Paul,</HI> who was a Mini&s;ter of the word of faith, he was not a Mini&s;ter of the letter, but of the &s;pirit, 2 <HI>Cor.</HI> 3.6. but that eare that heares the word of Faith, thou knowes not opened; but the dead minde beares rule in thee: &s;o thou &s;ets the Scripture in the room of him, who is the Authour and fini&s;her of Faith, who&s;e comming is as the morning, who opens the blind eye, and un&s;tops the deaf eare, <HI>I&s;a.</HI> 35.5.</P>
<P N="15">15. He &s;aid the Scripture was the truth.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, here thou wre&s;ts the Scripture out of its place, and &s;ets it in the room of Chri&s;t, who &s;aith he is the truth, <HI>Iohn</HI> 14.6. Now Chri&s;t &s;aith, he is the truth, and thou &s;ay&s;t, the Scripture is the truth: whether is the lyar, a lyar thou art: the truth &s;ets free, <HI>Iohn</HI> 8.32. the Scripture doth not: truth &s;anctifies, <HI>Iohn</HI> 17.17.19. the Scripture doth not; but thou may be ready to &s;lander me, becau&s;e I &s;ay not <HI>A|men</HI> to thy lies, and &s;ay I deny the Scripture, which I do not; for it I own to be a true Declaration, te&s;tifying of Chri&s;t, who is the truth. <HI>Iohn</HI> 5.39.40. <HI>Luke</HI> 1.1.</P>
<P N="16">16. He &s;aid the Scripture did lead into the truth.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, that is another lie, and the Scripture witne&s;&s;es again&s;t thee, which &s;aith, the &s;pirit of truth leads into all truth. <HI>John</HI> 16.13. and 1 <HI>John</HI> 2.20. ye have an unction from the holy one, and ye know all things, and that by the vertue of the unction in them, and not the leading of the letter without them: &s;o the Scripture te&s;tifies of that which leads into all truth, but is not the thing leading into all truth.</P>
<PB N="13" REF="8">
<P N="17">17. He &s;aid, the Scripture led into the knowledge of God, and did teach man the knowledge of God.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, that is another lie, and the key of knowledge thou here denies, &s;o thou art bruti&s;h in thy knowledge, <HI>Jer.</HI> 10.14. Thou &s;ayes the Scripture leads into the knowledge of God, and teaches the knowledge of God: here thou de|nies the Son, and &s;ets the Scripture in his place. <HI>Mat.</HI> 11.27. No man knowes the Father but the Son, and he to whom the Son reveals him; and thou &s;ay&s;t, the Scripture teaches the knowledge of God. <HI>Rom.</HI> 1.19. what may be known of God is manife&s;t in man: now thou &s;ayes, it is the Scripture without that teaches the knowledge of God; it is the &s;pirit that di&s;cerns God, who is a &s;pirit, and makes known &s;piritual things. 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 2.14. <HI>I&s;ay</HI> 28.9. it is God that teaches knowledge, <HI>John</HI> 14.26. The comforter &s;hall teach you all things. <HI>Luke</HI> 1.76.77. the Child Je&s;us, <HI>Ema|nuel</HI> God with us, he gives the knowledge of &s;alvation. Now here thou &s;ets the Scripture in the room of Chri&s;t, who teaches the knowledge of his Father, and &s;ayes, the Scrip|ture teaches man the knowledge of God: here another lie is found in thy mouth, and the key of knowledge thou ca&s;ts from thee, who di&s;obeys the light, which &s;hews the &s;in and evil; and another lie is put into thy hand even by the An|gel of the bottomle&s;s-pit, who&s;e name in the <HI>Hebrew</HI> Tongue is <HI>Abaddon,</HI> in the <HI>Greek</HI> Tongue <HI>Apollyon, Rev.</HI> 9.11. &s;o thou art opening, and &s;crewing; but I &s;ay by thy &s;earching thou &s;halt never finde out God; <HI>Job</HI> 11.7, 8.</P>
<P N="18">18. He &s;aid no mans wi&s;dom upon earth was per|fect.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, Thou art turned from the light, &s;o thy wi&s;dom is from below; and thou and thy Generation, who know not the Cro&s;&s;e of Chri&s;t but denies it, knowes not the wi&s;|dom which is from above which is perfect in the Saints, <HI>Jam:</HI> 3.27. 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 1.30. who is of God. Chri&s;t is their wi&s;|dom, and he is perfect in the lea&s;t mea&s;ure: &s;o here thou ha&s;t uttered bla&s;phemy: if thou knew it, the Bea&s;t that o|pens
<PB N="14" REF="9">his mouth in bla&s;phemy again&s;t God, his Tabernacle, and them that dwell in Heaven, into the lake mu&s;t go, <HI>Rev.</HI> 13.6.</P>
<P N="19">19. <HI>Matthew Caffyn</HI> &s;aid, the Scripture was the Touch|&s;tone to try &s;pirits withall.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, That is another lie, the Scripture is not the tryer of &s;pirits, to try the living by the dead, that I deny: the Saints have &s;alt in them&s;elves to &s;avour withall, and their own every vvhere they reli&s;h and know; but the con|trary they deny: the &s;pirits of the Prophets are &s;ubject to the Prophets, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 4.32. and this &s;pirit owns it &s;elf over all: this di&s;cerned and knew them, vvho u&s;ed their tongue, &s;aying, the Lord &s;aith, vvhen as they had nothing but the letter. <HI>Jer.</HI> 23. di&s;cerning of &s;pirits vvas, and is a gift of the &s;pirit: 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 12.10. Novv thou &s;ayes, the Scripture mu&s;t try &s;pirits. 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 2.10. The &s;pirit &s;earches all things, 1 <HI>John</HI> 2.20. ye have an unction from the holy one, and knovve all things; and by this unction they di&s;cerned Antichri&s;ts, Deceivers, fal&s;e Prophets, Hereticks, and deluders, and not by the letter vvithout; and by this &s;pirit did <HI>Paul</HI> di&s;cern &s;uch as had the form, but not the povver. 2 <HI>Tim.</HI> 3.5. and I vvill come &s;hortly &s;aith <HI>Paul,</HI> and vvill knovv not the &s;peech of them that are puffed up, but the povver. 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 4.19. The day declares every mans vvork. 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 3.11.12, 13. <HI>Mal.</HI> 3.16, 17, 18. In the day, vvhen the Jevvels are making up, and in the day is the di&s;cerning betvveen the vvicked and the righteous, him that &s;erves God, and him that &s;erves him not; but this is by vertue of the day, and not by the letter vvithout. The &s;heep knovv the voice of Chri&s;t, but deny to follovv a &s;tranger. <HI>John</HI> 10.4, 5, and this the &s;heep do, through the vertue of &s;alt in them, and not the letter vvithout them; for a &s;tranger may have the form, and all the Scripture, and there vvith deceive: yet the &s;heep have &s;alt to &s;avour vvithall, &amp; knovves him that u&s;es his tongue; and &s;aith, the Lord &s;aith, vvhen he hath nothing but the let|ter. <HI>Jer.</HI> 23. and whereas <HI>John</HI> &s;aid, Try the &s;pirits, whether
<PB N="15" REF="9">they be of God or no. 1 <HI>John</HI> 4.1. this he &s;poke to them that had &s;alt in them&s;elves, where the tryer was born; they were of God and Children, and a greater was in them, then he that was in the world, 1 <HI>John</HI> 4.4. Thou that &s;ayes the Scripture is the Touch&s;tone to try &s;pirits withall, tell me this, how may a Mini&s;ter made by the will of God, be known from a Mini&s;ter made by the will of man; &s;eeing a Mini&s;ter made by the vvill of man may have all the Scrip|ture the form, as well as he that is by the vvill of God; The Jews had <HI>Abrahams</HI> words, <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> &amp; the Prophets words, but they knew not Chri&s;t, could not thereby di&s;cern his &s;pirit, but &s;aid, he was a Samaritan, and had a Devil, <HI>John</HI> 8, 48. and they knew not what &s;pirit the Apo&s;tles were of, but &s;toned <HI>Paul</HI> till they thought he had been dead, <HI>Acts</HI> 14.19. Well may thou &s;tumble at that which tries &s;pirits, who confe&s;&s;es thou knowes not what the tongue of the learned is, <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 5.13. All things that are reproved, are made manife&s;t by the light: what ever makes manife&s;t is light, which makes thee manife&s;t, and thy &s;pirit, which is to be reproved, which light leads to the &s;tone with &s;even eyes, <HI>Zac.</HI> 3.9. and nothing but this di&s;cerns darkne&s;s, and that which leads into darkne&s;s.</P>
<P N="20">20. He &s;aid the Law without man, is that which con|vinces man of &s;in.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, that is another lie; for Chri&s;t is the true light, which lighteth every man that comes into the world, <HI>Iohn</HI> 1.9. which &s;ight is in man, and he that doth evil hates it: yet it reproves him, and convinces him of &s;in, and &s;hewes him his deeds are evil, who acts evil, <HI>Iohn</HI> 3.19.20, 21. this is given to the ends of the earth, and leaves them without excu&s;e, who have not the Law without, in that it &s;hewes them evil, and &s;in, which is darkne&s;s, <HI>I&s;ay</HI> 49.6. <HI>Rom.</HI> 2.14.15, 16. <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 5.13. as many as &s;in without the Law, &s;hall al&s;o peri&s;h without Law, <HI>Rom.</HI> 2.12. and in <HI>Rom.</HI> 4.15. he &s;aith, where there is no Law, there is no tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion and <HI>Rom.</HI> 3.20. by the Law is the knowledge of &s;in: now read the&s;e Scriptures, he tells of &s;ome that are without the Law:
<PB N="16" REF="10">and he &s;aith moreover, that where there is no Law, there is no tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion. So by con&s;equence, the&s;e are no &s;inners, who are without the Law. yet he &s;aith, <HI>As many as &s;in without the Law:</HI> So that I &s;ay, though they have not a Law without, yet have they &s;o much within, as lets them &s;ee evil, and &s;ecretly moves to turn from evil, and this leaves them without excu&s;e, <HI>Rom.</HI> 1.19. And <HI>Paul</HI> had the Law without, and as touching it was blamele&s;s, and was alive in the fle&s;h, and &s;aith he was without the Law: &s;o by the outward the letter, he did not &s;ee him elf; but when his eye was opened, which had been blinded, the &s;piritual Law, then &s;in appeared, and he died, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.9.14.12. ver&s;es. and <HI>Iohn</HI> 16.8. it is the &s;pirit, which convinces the world of &s;in, which in mea&s;ure hath appeared to all men, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 12.7. <HI>Tit.</HI> 2.11, 12. and <HI>I&s;ay</HI> 42.6. He is given a Covenant to <HI>I&s;rael,</HI> but a light to the Gentile.</P>
<P N="21">21. He &s;aid, God and Chri&s;t was two.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, that is a lie, and thou gain&s;ayes Chri&s;t, who &s;aid, I and my Father are one, <HI>Iohn</HI> 10.30. and <HI>Iohn</HI> 17.11. that they may be one, as we are, and that they may be one, even as we are one, <HI>Iohn</HI> 17.22. This Doctrine thy fore-fa|thers could not bear, even the Jews, who had the Letter, but &s;tumbled at the &s;tumbling-&s;tone, and &s;toned him, <HI>Iohn</HI> 10.31. and the rage envy, and bitterne&s;s that lodges in thy heart, and the &s;welling cruel words that from thee have proceeded, &s;ufficiently make known where thou art: let that in thy own con&s;cience witne&s;s, thou knowes not him, who is one with the Father; but &s;ets the Father in one place, and the Son in another, and changes the glory of the incorruptible God, into an Image made like unto corrup|tible man, <HI>Rom.</HI> 1.23. the Virgins birth thou knowes not, which is <HI>Emmanuel,</HI> God with us. <HI>Mat.</HI> 1.23.</P>
<P N="22">22. He &s;aid, he &s;hall &s;ee God with his eyes, which be carnall, often pointing at them with his fingers, alledging that of <HI>Iob, Iob</HI> 19.25, 26, 27.</P>
<P>I an&s;w. let all who know God in the lea&s;t mea&s;ure judge if thou be one of them, who art changing the glory of the
<PB N="17" REF="10">incorruptible God into an Image made like unto corrupti|ble man, who is telling of &s;eeing God, who is a &s;pirit, and invi&s;ible, with carnall naturall eyes: thou Image-maker, what do&s;t thou imagine God to be like, who art doting, and dreaming of &s;eeing God who is a &s;pirit, with thy carnall eyes: true it is, the old man dreams Dreams, but Sons and Daughters prophe&s;ie; and <HI>Iob</HI> &s;aw God, while he was in the fle&s;h, but not with fle&s;hly eyes, <HI>Iob</HI> 42.5.6. mine eye now &s;eeth thee, &s;aid <HI>Iob;</HI> but thy right eye mu&s;t be plucked out, and ca&s;t from thee, el&s;e not know that eye which &s;ees him, who is invi&s;ible. <HI>Heb.</HI> 11.23.24, 25, 26, 27.</P>
<P N="23">23. He &s;aid, by the per&s;on of Chri&s;t no man comes to the Father.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer: how long will the Nations be led by &s;uch blind guids as this, who &s;aith, by the per&s;on of Chri&s;t no man comes to the Father, when as Chri&s;t &s;aid, no man comes to the Father, but by me, <HI>John</HI> 14.6. herein he de|nies the true way, &s;o is Antichri&s;t: let all who are &s;imple judge, whether this fellow lead towards God, or from God, who denies Chri&s;t to be the way, &s;o is a Thief, and a Robber, who denies the door, &s;o is climbing another way, <HI>John</HI> 10.1. and <HI>Heb.</HI> 7.25. he is able to &s;ave to the ut|termo&s;t, &s;uch as come to God by him: now thou denies him, and &s;aith, he is not the way: will any be &s;o bewitch|ed, as to run after thee, or &s;uch like. O &s;hamele&s;s teacher, and without under&s;tanding, who art &s;o drunk with the Cup of abhomination, as that thou &s;taggers, reeles, &s;tumbles, and &s;pews out thy own &s;hame, and denies the Lord, who hath put a price into thy hand; but it, and him thou denies, and no other Way but him we own, who lighteth every man that comes into the world, which thou denies and walks not in, it is a way of holine&s;s, the unclean, the Lyon, the Bea&s;ts of the Forre&s;t walk not in this way; and thou who bears the Image of the earthly, denies him who is the ex|pre&s;&s;e Image of his Fathers per&s;on, <HI>Heb.</HI> 1.3.</P>
<PB N="18" REF="11">
<P N="24">24. He &s;aid, Chri&s;t was a&s;cended into Heaven, and is now &s;itting in Heaven, with a body of fle&s;h and blood, with the very &s;ame body of fle&s;h and blood, with the which he did eat broyled fi&s;h, among his Di&s;ciples.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, thou art an Image-maker, and knowes not his body which &s;ets free from the Law, and from the body of &s;in, <HI>Rom,</HI> 7.4. and thou who lives in lies, in the Cu&s;toms and fa&s;hions of the world, and in deceitful wayes, contrary to that in thy con&s;cience, knowes not the body of Chri&s;t, &s;o art doting, dreaming, framing, forming, and imagining, and &s;etting up Images, and likene&s;&s;es in thy &s;en&s;ual wi&s;dom of per&s;ons and places, which who know his body, from the&s;e things are redeemed, <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 5.23. He is the Saviour of the body, and his body &s;ets free from &s;in and the Law: if thou have an eare, thou may heare, <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 4.9.10. Now that he a&s;cended, what is it, but that he al&s;o de&s;cended fir&s;t into the lower parts of the earth, and no man a&s;cended into Hea|ven, but he that came down from Heaven, even the Son of man, which is in Heaven, <HI>John</HI> 3.13. And fle&s;h and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 15.50. yet are we members of his body, of his fle&s;h, and of his bones, <HI>E|phe&s;.</HI> 5.30. Go learn what the&s;e things mean; and thou that &s;ayes, he is in Heaven with a body of fle&s;h and blood, op|po&s;es the Apo&s;tle, who was an eye witne&s;s of his Maje&s;ty, who &s;aid fle&s;h and blood mu&s;t not inherit, &amp;c. and &s;aid Chri&s;t, glorifie thou me, O Father, with thine own &s;elfe, with the glory which I had with thee, before the world was, <HI>John</HI> 17.5. and Chri&s;ts glorious body we own, <HI>Phil.</HI> 3.21. &s;o deny thee, and thy Images, and thy vulturs eye, and the Eggs which thou Cocatrice hatches, and the &s;piders webb, which thou weaves, which thy nakedne&s;s cannot cover, <HI>I&s;ay</HI> 59.5.6. call not this railing; for a name thou mu&s;t have, according to thy nature, who&s;e lips &s;peak lies, who&s;e tongue mutters perver&s;ene&s;&s;e, who tru&s;ts in vanity, and pleads not for the truth, but again&s;t it, &s;aying, thou wilt root the Mini&s;ters of the truth, out of the&s;e parts, the
<PB N="19" REF="11">marks of them thou beares, that <HI>I&s;a,</HI> &s;poke of <HI>I&s;a.</HI> 59.1, 2.3, 4, 5, 6.</P>
<P N="25">25. <HI>Matthew Caffyn</HI> &s;aid, God did not dwell in any creature, but his Spirit did.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, here thou would make good a lier, who hath &s;aid, I will dwell in them, and walk in them, 2 <HI>Cor.</HI> 6.16. <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 2.22. they were an habitation of God, through the Spirit: this thou &s;tumbles at, di&s;putes, and cavills again&s;t who art a &s;tranger, and a forrainer, and an enemy to the hou&s;hould of God, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 3.16.17. ye are the temple of God, and the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are, <HI>Rev.</HI> 21.3. the Tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them: and, who are of God, this witne&s;s, and witne&s;s again&s;t thee, and know t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="UOM" EXTENT="1 letter">ee to be without God in the world, who imagines God to be one where, and his Spirit, another where, when as God is a Spirit, and the Spirit, <HI>Ioh.</HI> 4.24. 2. <HI>Cor.</HI> 3.17. who&s;oever confe&s;&s;es in truth, that Je&s;us is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God, 1 <HI>Iohn,</HI> 4.15.</P>
<P N="26">26. He &s;aid, no man while he is upon earth is in the Kingdom, and that the chiefe of Saints, have but by pro|mi&s;e.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer: thou art a bundle of lies, and what ha&s;t thou to do to meddle with the Saints, or talke of their inheritance, who art prophane <HI>E&s;au,</HI> &s;elling thy birth-right for the earth who contrary to the light acts, &s;o a child of di&s;obedience art, thy fruits make thee manife&s;t, and with <HI>Iacob;</HI> thou ha&s;t no inheritance who &s;aid, he was a Mini&s;ter of the Spirit, he al&s;o &s;aid, that they were tran&s;lated into the Kingdom of his deare Son, <HI>Col.</HI> 1.13. and the Saints were rai&s;ed up, and &s;et together in heavenly places, in Chri&s;t Je&s;us, <HI>Ephe&s;.</HI> 2.6. and if any come to know the life of the holy men of God, and beare witne&s;s to their conditions, thou &s;preads thy armes abrode, crying out of bla&s;phemy, here&s;ie, damnable doctrines; &s;o might thou have &s;aid of them, who gave out
<PB N="20" REF="12">the Scripture, which was given to be fulfilled, not for a heard of &s;wine to feed on: what ha&s;t thou to do, to talke of the Saints, who armes thy &s;elfe with arguments, again&s;t &s;uch as grow up in the life, which tran&s;lated them into the Kingdom, &s;o be a witne&s;s again&s;t thy &s;elfe, that thou art out of the Kingdom, which is a Kingdom of light, and by the light art found out among the Cocatrices, Night-birds, Cormorants, Bitterns, Owls, Ravens, Dragons, Wildebea&s;ts, Satyrs, Vulturs, Scritch-owls: ownthy mates, who art plead|ing again&s;t po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ing the Kingdom.</P>
<P N="27">27. He &s;aid no man upon earth &s;ees Chri&s;t, he &s;aid, he had not &s;een Chri&s;t, and when I asked him, if he had &s;een God, he cryed out of bla&s;phemy.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, here thou art a witne&s;s again&s;t thy &s;elfe, that thou art one of them, who ha&s;t eies, but &s;ees not, <HI>Math.</HI> 13.15. <HI>Mo&s;es</HI> &s;aw God, <HI>Exo.</HI> 33.11.23. and death reigns till <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> &s;o in thee death reignes: &s;o what ha&s;t thou to profe&s;s? <HI>Abraham</HI> &s;aw the day of the Son of man, and was glad <HI>Iohn</HI> 8, 56. and God appeared unto him, and talked with him, <HI>Gen.</HI> 12.7. <HI>Gen.</HI> 17.1.2, 3, the Lord appeared unto <HI>I|&s;aac,</HI> and talks with him, <HI>Gen.</HI> 26.2. <HI>Iacob</HI> &s;aw God face to face, <HI>Gen.</HI> 32.30 <HI>Iob</HI> &s;aw God, <HI>Iob.</HI> 42.5.6. now thou that &s;tumbles at &s;eeing of God, and confe&s;&s;es thou ha&s;t not &s;eene Chri&s;t, in the &s;teps of <HI>Abraham</HI> thou art not, nor to his condition come, who &s;aw the day of the Son of man, and was glad, and death reignes in thee, and thou clothes thy &s;elfe with the Letter, which they &s;poke forth, who &s;aw God in Chri&s;t, if any come to witne&s;s the life of them, who&s;e words thou profe&s;&s;es, <HI>I&s;ay</HI> &s;aw God, <HI>I&s;a.</HI> 6.5. the Prodigall came to him&s;elfe, and &s;aid to his Father, I have &s;inned in thy &s;ight, <HI>Luke</HI> 15. but in the far Country yet thou art, a|mong&s;t harlots, and riotous livers, and art gon into the field to feed &s;wine, and thy &s;elfe eates the husks among the &s;wine, and that which would let thee &s;ee thy &s;elfe, and thy Countrey, and thy companions, and thy food, and the
<PB N="21" REF="12">Father of the living, that thou denies, and lives in di&s;obe|dience to the light, which comes from Chri&s;t, &s;o art for condemnation, he that &s;ees the Son &s;ees the Father, <HI>Jo.</HI> 14.9. but thou art without both, and in fellow&s;hip with neither, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 15.8.14.15. <HI>Paul</HI> was an eye witne&s;&s;e of his maje&s;ty, <HI>Heb.</HI> 11.27. <HI>John</HI> &s;aw him on hor&s;e-back, &s;it|ting on a white hor&s;e, and a bow and a Crowne was given unto him, and he went forth Conquering, and to Con|quer, <HI>Rev.</HI> 6.2. and &s;uch as thee &s;hall his arrows deeply pierce, who &s;aies thou art a Mini&s;ter of Chri&s;t, and yet ha&s;t not &s;een him, nor his Father, nor knows not what the tongue of the learned is, &s;o art one that <HI>Paul</HI> witne&s;&s;ed again&s;t, unlearned, and un&s;table, wre&s;ting the Scripture to thy owne de&s;truction, and the de&s;truction of other, 2 <HI>Pet.</HI> 3.16. he mu&s;t needs be unlearned, who runs to teach o|thers, and him&s;elfe nor knowing what the tongue of the learned is, <HI>Rev.</HI> 19.11.12.13. all the Children of the Lord are taught of the Lord, and they &s;ee their teacher, which is the Lord, &s;o here thou ha&s;t &s;hut out thy &s;elfe from all the Children of the Lord, who confe&s;&s;es thou ha&s;t not &s;een God nor Chri&s;t: all his Children, the Lord teaches, and him they &s;ee, and none of them thou art, who confe&s;&s;es thou ha&s;t not &s;eene Chir&s;t, <HI>I&s;a.</HI> 54.13.</P>
<P N="28">28. He &s;aid, <HI>Adam</HI> did not die the &s;ame day, he did eate the forbidden fruit, but was in a dying condition, that is growing nearer the time in the which he &s;hould be put in|to an hole in the earth.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer: thou art a liar, for the lake; and would make God a lier, who &s;aid, <HI>Gen.</HI> 2.17. in the day, thou eate&s;t thereof, thou &s;halt &s;urely die: now thou &s;ai&s;t he did not die, &s;o would make God a lier, and <HI>Gen.</HI> 3.6.7.8. when they had eaten thereof; the eies of them both were open|ed, and they knew that they both were naked, and they &s;hewed figleaves together, and made them them elves a|prons, as thou ha&s;t been doing this many yeares, both for thy &s;elfe, and for others, and art found a witne&s;s again&s;t
<PB N="22" REF="13">God, and thou thy &s;elfe ignorant, not knowing the death, which hath pa&s;&s;ed over all men.</P>
<P N="29">29. He &s;aid, I denied the re&s;urrection.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer: thou art a &s;landerer, and mu&s;t have the Porti|on of the &s;landerer, for a re&s;urrection I own, both of the ju&s;t, and unju&s;t, <HI>Acts</HI> 24.15. The re&s;urrection of the dead I owne, both of the ju&s;t, and unju&s;t, <HI>Jo.</HI> 5.28.29. the one to life, the other to damnation: but becau&s;e I &s;aid, thou mu&s;t not &s;ee God with thy carnall eies, and that fle&s;h, and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 15.50. therefore thou concludes, I deny the re&s;urrection: thou might as well &s;lander <HI>Paul,</HI> and &s;ay he denyed the re&s;ur|rection, as &s;lander &s;uch, who beare witne&s;s to his words: but thou &s;aies, with what manner of body do the dead ari&s;e: thou fool, that which thou &s;owe&s;t is not quickned, except it die, and that which thou &s;owe&s;t, thou &s;owe&s;t not that body that &s;hall be, <HI>&amp;c.</HI> but God giveth it a body as it plea&s;|eth him; it is &s;own a naturall body, it is rai&s;ed a &s;pirituall body, 1 <HI>Cor.</HI> 15. chapter, and <HI>Paul</HI> earne&s;tly laboured to come to the re&s;urrection of the dead, <HI>Phil.</HI> 3.11.</P>
<P N="30">30. <HI>Matthew Caffyn,</HI> &s;aid he beleived no man upon earth did live without the tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion of the Law, yet man might come to have the righteou&s;ne&s;s of the law fullfilled in him, as <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aid the righteou&s;ne&s;s of the law, was ful|filled in him&s;elfe, and others, <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.4. and yet at the &s;ame time, he &s;aw a law in his members, warning again&s;t the law of &s;in, which was in his members, and cryed out O wretched man that I am, who &s;hall deliver me from the body of this death, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.23.24.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, thou that &s;aies, the righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e of the law may be fullfilled in man, and yet man not freed from the tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion of the law, I &s;ay it, it is a lie, and prove thy doctrine if thou can, let all who&s;e eye is open judge be|tween thee and mee, whether the righteou&s;ne&s;s of the law
<PB N="23" REF="13">be fulfilled in man, while he lives in the tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion of the law, yea, or nay: this makes it manife&s;t, thou art igno|rant of the law, which is &s;pirituall, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.14. and it hath power over a man &s;o long as he lives, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.1. &s;o that be|ing alive in the fle&s;h, out of that which crucifies the fle&s;h, the &s;pirituall law is tran&s;gre&s;&s;ed, and here he is not witne&s;&s;|ed, who is the end of the law, for righteou&s;ne&s;&s;e, to eve|ry one that believes, <HI>Rom.</HI> 10.4. And &s;aid <HI>Paul,</HI> who knew the law, <HI>Gal.</HI> 3.19. wherefore then &s;erves the law, it was added becau&s;e of tra&s;gre&s;&s;ions, till the &s;eed &s;hould come, to whom the promi&s;e was made, &s;o if thou had an eare, thou might heare: the law was added becau&s;e of tran&s;gre&s;&s;i|on, and is al&s;o added, while tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion &s;tands: the law hath its work, which mini&s;tration is glorious in its time: and the end of the law is not come, who was made under the law, to fulfill the law, &s;o thorough the law, to redeeme from the law: he is not come, while &s;in and tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion is lived in, even he, that comes by water, and blood, not by water onely, but by water, and blood, 1 <HI>Joh.</HI> 5.6. the law is added, becau&s;e of tran&s;gre&s;&s;ions, till the &s;eed come, who brui&s;es the Serpents head, <HI>Gen.</HI> 3.15. and takes upon him the &s;eed of <HI>Abraham,</HI> and not the nature of An|gels, <HI>Heb.</HI> 2.16. this is he, who in taking upon him the &s;eed of <HI>Abraham,</HI> fini&s;hers tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion, becau&s;e of which the law was added, and makes an end of &s;in, and makes reconciliation for iniquity, and brings in everla&s;ting righteou&s;ne&s;s, and &s;eals up the vi&s;ion, and prophecy, here the mo&s;t holy is anointed, <HI>Dan.</HI> 9. if thou knew the &s;eed, to which the promi&s;e is, the end of vi&s;ion, or prophecy, this thou would receive, but thou that tells of the righteou&s;ne&s;s of the law, beeing fulfilled in man, and yet man live in the tran&s;gre&s;&s;ion of the law, thou know not what thou &s;paks, nor whereof thou affirmes: for he him&s;elfe &s;aith, that he was made free, from the law of &s;in, and death, before he tell of the righteou&s;ne&s;s of the law being fulfilled in him, <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.1.2.3.4, and &s;aith <HI>Paul,</HI> I thorough the law (which law hath power over a
<PB N="24" REF="14">man &s;o long as he lives) and dead to the Law, that I might live unto God, <HI>Gal.</HI> 2.19. but neither Law nor Go&s;pel thou knows, who &s;tumbles at &s;eeing God, and cryes out bla&s;|phemy, when as <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> who received the perfect Law from God, which is according to that of God, in every ones con&s;cience, he &s;aw God, and till <HI>Mo&s;es,</HI> death reigns; there thou art.</P>
<P>And in as much as thou &s;aid, that <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aid, the righte|ou&s;ne&s;s of the Law was fulfilled in him, and yet at the &s;ame time, he was carnall, &s;old under &s;in, and found a Law in his Members, warring again&s;t the Law of his minde, leading him captive into &s;in, and was a wretched man, cry|ing out, who &s;hould deliver him from the body of death, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.</P>
<P>I an&s;wer, here another lie is found in thy mouth, for he did not &s;ay, the righteou&s;ne&s;s of the Law, was fulfilled in him till the Law of the &s;pirit of life in Chri&s;t Je&s;us, had made him free from the Law of &s;in and death, <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.1.2, 3, 4, and he could not both be carnal, led captive, and have the body of death &s;tanding in him, and yet be free from the body of &s;in and death, all at one time: this can in no wi&s;e be, as thou would per&s;wade people; but whereas he &s;peaks of him&s;elf, being carnal, &s;old under &s;in, and led cap|tive, and the body of death not de&s;troyed, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7. here he declares unto them, how it was with him, in the time of his warfare, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.5. when we were in the fle&s;h, &s;aith he, then it was &s;o and &s;o, then carnal; but the Law &s;piritual, then &s;old under &s;in, then led captive, then a wretched man, then not delivered from the body of &s;in, in the time of the Law, it being weak, through the fle&s;h: now here he de|clares to them, what he had pa&s;&s;ed through, and how it had been with him; but at that time, he &s;aith he was deli|vered from the Law, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.6. &s;o likewi&s;e from &s;in, the Law being added becau&s;e of tran&s;gre&s;&s;ions; and he at that
<PB N="25" REF="14">time, vvhen he vvrote unto the <HI>Romans</HI> an Epi&s;tle, vvhich afterwards vvas turned into Chapter, and ver&s;e, by <HI>Tubal-Cain,</HI> the cunning Artificer, and Craft-man, for the bene|fit of the Clergy: vvhen this Epi&s;tle he vvrote, he vvitne&s;|&s;ed the power of God unto &s;alvation,<HI>Rom.</HI> 1.6. and the in|vvard Jew, and circumci&s;ion inwardly, <HI>Rom.</HI> 2.28, 29. and that he vvas ju&s;tified, and had peace vvith God, <HI>Rom.</HI> 5.1. and that the old man vvas crucified, <HI>Rom.</HI> 6.6. and that they vvere not under the Lavv, but under grace, vvhich Lavv is becau&s;e of tran&s;gre&s;&s;ions, <HI>Rom.</HI> 6.15. and that they vvere dead to the Lavv, by the body of Chri&s;t, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.4. and none is dead to the Lavv, but vvho is dead to &s;in, his body &s;ets none free from the Lavv, but vvhom it &s;ets free from &s;in, and he &s;aith, he and they vvere delivered from the Lavv, <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.6. &s;o from &s;in, becau&s;e of vvhich the Lavv is added, and he &s;aith, he vvas &s;et free from &s;in, and the righteou&s;ne&s;s of the Lavv vvas fulfilled in him, <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.1.2, 3, 4. novv that he could vvitne&s;s the&s;e glorious conditions, and grovvth in Chri&s;t Je&s;us, and yet be carnal, and fold under &s;in, and led captive, and groane under the body of death, that I deny; but it is the Doctrine of <HI>Matthew Caffyn,</HI> vvho is a Bapti&s;t-Teacher, &s;o I leave it vvith him, or any that ovvn him, the &s;ame to prove, and in <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.25. <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aid, &s;o then&mdash;implying a condi|tion, and di&s;po&s;ition which he had pa&s;&s;ed through, then it was &s;o, and &s;o; and in the next ver&s;e he &s;aith, But now&mdash; <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.1. therein he declares his pre&s;ent condition, which was that he was &s;et free from the Law of &s;in and death, and the righteou&s;ne&s;s of the Law was fulfilled in him, <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.1.2, 3, 4.</P>
<LIST>
<ITEM><HI>Rom.</HI> 7.25. <HI>So then</HI> Who is not blind may &s;ee.</ITEM>
<ITEM><HI>Rom.</HI> 8.1.2. <HI>But now</HI> Who hath an eare, may heare.</ITEM>
</LIST>
<PB N="26" REF="15">
<P>To the 7th Chapter of <HI>Pauls</HI> Epi&s;tle to the <HI>Romans,</HI> do all un&s;avory Profe&s;&s;ors, Prie&s;ts, and people fly; and unto it run, as unto a Bulwark, for a cover to continue in &s;in and corr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="UOM" EXTENT="1 letter">ption, while they remain upon earth which will &s;tand them in no &s;tead: &s;o two Propo&s;itions &s;hall I lay down; and if the Devil in any profe&s;&s;ion, or <HI>Matthew Caffyn,</HI> be offended at what I have &s;poken concerning that Chapter, which all Profe&s;&s;ions take hold on, for a &s;helter for their iniquity, let them appear in writing, that truth may come to light, and lies be &s;earched out, and not back-bite, grum|ble, and grudge, and run up and down &s;landering and rail|ing, and crying out that we hold forth damnable Doctrines, and Here&s;ies. But do not &s;o, that is not hone&s;t, that is the nature of Night-birds, and Screech-owls, who &s;cratch in the dark: &s;o <HI>Matthew Caffyn,</HI> prove thy Do|ctrines, el&s;e throw down thy Crowns, and own that in thy Con&s;cience, which &s;hews thee thy enmity again&s;t the truth: the Lord is taking unto him&s;elf him great power, even the Almighty, who was, is, and is to come, to reign over all, and the Nations are angry, and combine toge|ther again&s;t the Lord, and again&s;t his anointed: yet upon the holy hill of Sion, will hee his Son&s;et: the hill of God, is as the hill of <HI>Ba&s;han,</HI> an high hill: this is the hill in which God delights to dwell; yea, in it, he will dwell for ever, and all hills &s;hall tremble before it, even before his hill, who is &s;etting the &s;olitary in families, and bringing out tho&s;e which are bound in Chains, he is beating the wicked one, out of all his Bulwarks, and fenced walls, and high Towers; and in <HI>I&s;rael</HI> doth God appoint, for Walls and Bulwarks, even &s;alvation; &s;o make not lies your re|fuge, and plead not for &s;in, which is a wall of &s;eparation be|tween God and man.</P>
<P N="1">1. That <HI>Paul</HI> was not carnall, and &s;old under &s;in, nor led captive into &s;in, nor the body of death undelivered from, (which is made mention of <HI>Rom.</HI> 7.) when he &s;aid, the Law
<PB N="17" REF="15">of the &s;pirit of life in Chri&s;t Je&s;us, had made him free from the Law of &s;in and death, <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.1, 2, 3, 4.</P>
<P>That at that time, when <HI>Paul</HI> wrote to the <HI>Romans,</HI> and &s;poke of being carnal, and &s;old under &s;in, &amp;c. <HI>Rom.</HI> 7. that he &s;poke not of his pre&s;ent condition, but how it had been with him formerly, in the time of his warfare, which was then accompli&s;hed, and the body of death put off, and he &s;et free from &s;in, <HI>Rom.</HI> 8.1.2, 3, 4.</P>
<P N="31">31. <HI>Matthew Caffyn</HI> &s;aid, I &s;poke errour, when I &s;aid, no man did further witne&s;s the Scripture fulfilled in him, than he was grown up in that &s;pirit, which gave it forth: the &s;ame al&s;o I now &s;ay, and, prove it to be errour, if thou can; but the wi&s;e in heart, will not take thy words for a Go&s;pel-proof, who ha&s;t uttered forth &s;o many lies, and did give me the&s;e words under thy own hand-writing, That the Scripture doth &s;o farre reveal God and Chri&s;t to a Crea|ture, as that he walking up to its Revelation, to his lives end, with a &s;ingle heart, &s;hall be eternally &s;aved. I &s;ay thy Mini&s;try teaches not &s;inglene&s;&s;e in the one &s;pirit, but thou would have all &s;hroud them&s;elves in thy Form, to their lives end, and in the deceit of the world, and then tells them of being &s;aved: now he to whom the true Mini&s;try, was committed, &s;aid, 2 <HI>Tim.</HI> 1.9. they were &s;aved, <HI>Tit.</HI> 3.5. Thou would have people wrapt up in thy Form, all their lives, that thou among them may have preheminence, and tells them of &s;alvation afterward, when as no unclean thing, mu&s;t enter into the Kingdom, as the Tree falls, &s;o it lies.</P>
<P>This have I written, as touching particulars received from <HI>M. Caffyn,</HI> part in writing, and part from his mouth, and God who is the Judge of all, is my witne&s;s herein, that I have not added to what was &s;poken by him: &s;o be a|&s;hamed thou blind guide, and prove thy Doctrines, el&s;e be
<PB N="18" REF="16">&s;ilent, and give over teaching others, who thy &s;elf art un|taught: mind that in thy con&s;cience, which &s;hews the &s;in and evil, and let it &s;top thy mouth: &s;ee thy own confu&s;ion, glory not in <HI>Babylon,</HI> a building by thy own fingers, in thy own imaginations: the Kingdom thou art departed from, the mea&s;ure which &s;hews the evil, thou di&s;obeys; and from men thou art driven, and thy dwelling is among&s;t the Bea&s;ts of the field, and thou art pu&s;hing with thy horn and power again&s;t the Lambs; and upon the gra&s;&s;e thou art feeding: there is thy &s;tate, not only &s;even times, but ever, except the light which &s;hines in thy Con&s;cience, thou own, that by it thou may be led out of darkne&s;s, up to Chri&s;t, who for that end gave thee a mea&s;ure to profit withall: doth not a man who&s;e eyes are open, know a bea&s;t, by one mark? how many marks doth thou here beare, which God gives his Children victory over: therefore cea&s;e thy prateing with malitious words, again&s;t that which thou knows not, and come out of deceit, and the worlds vanities, which thou &s;ticks in, contrary to that in thy con&s;cience: there|fore be warned, thou who &s;preads thy &s;elf, as the Bramble|bu&s;h, and obey that in thy con&s;cience which &s;hews the &s;in and evil; for fire is in the bu&s;h, though thou be not aware of it: re&s;i&s;t not that in thy Con&s;cience, by which God calls thee, and &s;ecretly checks thee, that out of the evil of the world, thou may come: God who is a con&s;u|&s;uming fire, will awake for his own glory; and his fire, he will kindle, which all thorns, bryars, and brambles &s;hall con&s;ume: prize the day of thy vi&s;itation. A Lover of thy &s;oul.</P>
<CLOSER><SIGNED>Thomas Law&s;on.</SIGNED></CLOSER>
</DIV1>
<TRAILER>THE END.</TRAILER>
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</TEXT>
</EEBO>
</ETS>
