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<DATE>2013-06-06</DATE>
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<NAME>Alexis Jakobson</NAME>
<RESP>MURP</RESP>
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<DIV1 TYPE="title page">
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<P>A COMBATE betweene TVVO SECONDS.</P>
<P>One for obeying the Pre&s;ent Government.</P>
<P>The other, the &s;econd part of a DEMURRER; Unde&s;ervedly called RELIGIOUS.</P>
<Q><BIBL>JAMES. 1. 26.</BIBL> <HI>If any man among you, &s;eeme to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart; this mans Religion is in vaine.</HI></Q>
<P><HI>LONDON:</HI> Printed for <HI>John Wright,</HI> at the Kings Head in the Old-Bayley, 1649.</P>
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<DIV1 TYPE="text">
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<PB N="2" REF="2">
<HEAD>A Combate between two SECONDS, One for obeying the PRESENT GOVERNMENT; The other, the &s;econd part of a DEMURRER.</HEAD>
<P>_WHen a Scholler of the lower forme doth offend, the U&s;her takes him into his hands for correction; And this Demurrer being of the lower forme, at lea&s;t in regard of charity, I think I may make bold to be&s;tow &s;ome cha&s;ti&s;ements, if not upon him, yet upon his faulty workes. <HI>The wi&s;edome that is from above, is fir&s;t pure, then peaceable, gentle, and without partiality.</HI> Therefore to be impure, unpeaceable, in|jurious and partiall; mu&s;t be the wi&s;edom from below, and brings him down to a very low forme, that is guil|ty therein.</P>
<PB N="2" REF="3">
<P> This Demurrer wanting &s;trength in his Arguments, or doubting of them, thinkes to fortifie his di&s;cour&s;e, by laying &s;candalous and uncharitable &s;u&s;pitions, on the per&s;on of him that wrote for obedience; neither are they uncharitable only, but untrue; and &s;uch that upon the proofe of them: the Demurrer would hardly adventure a &s;mall &s;umme of Money, though he thus ea&s;ily adven|ture his &s;oule: And yet <HI>he &s;ayes he &s;ees,</HI> (and becau&s;e he &s;aith &s;o, his &s;inne remaines, for an untruth is never tru|ly &s;eene) and without re&s;titution, and reparation, hee cannot expect his &s;inne &s;hould be taken from him. He &s;aith, <HI>He &s;ees that it is a great &s;nare to be po&s;&s;e&s;t of great e&s;tates by that power which can dive&s;t them, if they a&s;&s;i&s;t not their wicked de&s;ignes;</HI> And that the <HI>Author</HI> he &s;peaks of, <HI>is entangled in this &s;nare, or el&s;e he would never under|take the Patronage of &s;o bad a Cau&s;e.</HI> For an&s;wer; Fir&s;t, This man cannot po&s;&s;ibly fetch any convincing proof, or demon&s;tration of that which he &s;aith, <HI>He &s;ees;</HI> But fetches it wholly from uncharitablene&s;&s;e; even a con|trariety to that charity which thinketh none evill. This <NOTE PLACE="marg">1 Cor. 13.</NOTE> is all, becau&s;e the Author will not comply with this mans errors and party. And whereas he calls it <HI>a bad Cau&s;e,</HI> certainely it may be good &s;till; for he hath very badly proved it to be bad. And why doth he not ac|cu&s;e <HI>Calvin,</HI> and <HI>Bucer,</HI> and <HI>Paraeus,</HI> and <HI>Gualter,</HI> and <HI>Pe|ter Martyr,</HI> for maintaining a bad Cau&s;e, and doing it for a place of Profit. As for any de&s;igne, the whole life of the Author &s;hewes him very cleare of de&s;ignes; And for this, be it what de&s;igne it will be, he was no actor in it, but a &s;pectator onely, untill he &s;aw a Go|vernment &s;et on foot, and that ju&s;tice might be had this way, and no other. And then having a right to act, he
<PB N="3" REF="3"> beleeved that he might exerci&s;e it in ju&s;t things; yea he beleeved that it was a duty, though the Government had been taken by de&s;igne, and force, that tho&s;e who had taken it and excluded all other, &s;hould give Ju|&s;tice; and if he a&s;i&s;t in that which is good, and which &s;hould be &s;inne if it were not done; I thinke it goes be|yond the &s;kill of this Demurrer, ju&s;tly to charge that which is good, with Sinne and Guilt. Sure it is that he had the councell and con&s;ent of impartiall Authors, (and &s;uch are the dead, not intere&s;ted in our affaires) even Authors to whom this Demurrer is but an Infant, e&s;pecially if this di&s;cour&s;e be the top of his &s;trength, as it &s;hould be, or el&s;e he is fal&s;e to his Cau&s;e. For a more weake, irre&s;olute and unre&s;olving paper, is &s;eldome &s;eene; for in it there are &s;o many [perhaps] concer|ning the chiefe points in que&s;tion, that he &s;eemes un|re&s;olved him&s;elfe; and how can he then re&s;olve others? But of this more in the conclu&s;ion; And now becau&s;e his matter is weake, therefore his chiefe &s;trength is laid upon &s;candalizing the Author; and &s;o his be&s;t argument is his owne uncharitablene&s;&s;e; I am therefore the lar|ger in this point to make a plai&s;ter proportionable to the large poy&s;on of this &s;erpentine Di&s;cour&s;e, that bites the Heele, when it can not come to the Head. In the meane time he may learne to con&s;true his Latin, by his owne actions in Engli&s;h, <HI>Scelere tuendum e&s;t &s;celus. That a fal&s;e Doctrine mu&s;t be maintained by fal&s;e Slan|ders.</HI></P>
<P>And now to make manife&s;t that the Author is not &s;o fixed to the world, as to maintaine a bad Cau&s;e, for a place of profit, let the Demurrer fir&s;t know that this Author at the p<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;&s;ing of the &s;elfe denying Ordinance,
<PB N="4" REF="4"> gave his vote clearely for the quitting of his place, and did verely thinke it gone, (whereof he gave very good te&s;timony) but that it plea&s;ed the Hou&s;es, to declare it to be without the intention of the Ordinance. So it &s;eemes he hath beene able to quit &s;uch a place for the good of the Publique. Secondly for the employments of the profits of his place. He hath &s;o communicated them, amid&s;t all the&s;e &s;ales of Lands, and other oppor|tunities which are now going, that he hath not encrea&s;ed his e&s;tate by purcha&s;e one five pounds <HI>per annum.</HI> But thirdly, with giving maintainance to poore Schollars' in Vniver&s;ities, fatherle&s;&s;e and poore Children in Schooles, di&s;tre&s;&s;ed per&s;ons of <HI>Ireland,</HI> poore in <HI>We&s;tmin&s;ter, Lon|don,</HI> and the Country, poore &s;ervants of the late King, poore di&s;tre&s;&s;ed Widowes of Souldiers, and &s;uch to whom Arreares are due, and maintainance of Preach|ing; he hath gone beyond any for ought I know, that have five times his E&s;tate. And for getting of reward or advancement by this worke, it is certaine he tooke a cour&s;e to the contrary; for he was &s;o farre from ac|quainting any that are eminent in power, and can give advancement, either with the worke, or with the Name of the Author, that he communicated them onely to one that tran&s;cribed it, whom he adjured to &s;ilence. And of this concealing, the Stationer for whom it was printed, can give &s;ome te&s;timony. True it is that upon conference, which he had of this &s;ubject with &s;ome Per|&s;ons, or by knowing his &s;tile, &s;ome might adventure to put his name upon the worke, among which Mr. <HI>Mar|&s;hall</HI> is one, who being pre&s;ent when the worke was communicated to one of the Authors neare&s;t friends, in a clo&s;e and concealed manner, and thereupon reading
<PB N="5" REF="4"> it, gave his judgement concerning the Name of the Au|thor, though he had never any hint of it by any notice from the Author.</P>
<P>But now to the Demurr it &s;elfe:</P>
<P>Whereas he &s;aith, <HI>That he heares few rationall con&s;ci|entious men are &s;atisfied with the Declaration of Parlia|ment.</HI> It may be he conver&s;es with few men, &s;o ration|all&punc; and con&s;cientious as to be free from partiality: But how un&s;atisfying &s;oever it be beleeved, the Author tooke his ground upon a &s;uppo&s;ed un&s;atisfaction.</P>
<P>Whereas he &s;aith, <HI>a people may</HI> [perhaps] <HI>lawfully o|bey a Government, when there is no probability of recove|ring their lo&s;t Government.</HI> If he would leave out this word [perhaps] wherewith he much troubles his Trea|ti&s;e, the bu&s;ine&s;&s;e is neare at an end. For the Author be|leeves there is no probability in &s;ight, and therefore it &s;eemes he may have leave of the Demurrer, to approve of obedience to the pre&s;ent Government. And herein it is de&s;ired that this irre&s;olute writer would re&s;olve him|&s;elfe better out of tho&s;e, that as it &s;eemes have more knowledge and judgement to re&s;olve then him&s;elfe, and particularly that in this point of probability, and po&s;&s;e&s;&s;ion, and others of kin to it, he would looke into Mr. <HI>Aschams</HI> di&s;cour&s;e, and either beleeve it or confute it; It is &s;trange that the&s;e men &s;hould &s;wallow that worke of many &s;heets, and &s;traine at this &s;ingle one; But indeed till that Booke be an&s;wered, <HI>Calvin, Bucer, Peter Martyr, Gualter, Paraeus,</HI> confuted with the grounds and rea&s;ons of tho&s;e judicious Ca&s;ui&s;ts (who though of the Church of <HI>Rome,</HI> yet in the&s;e ca&s;es of ju&s;tice, not in
<PB N="6" REF="5"> controver&s;ie betweene us, cannot be rejected as parti|all) the cau&s;e &s;tands good, though the Demurrer in his bad language calls it bad, but leaves it good by his doubt|full &s;ayings, and his weake rea&s;ons.</P>
<P>Pag. 3. He acknowledgeth, <HI>When an unlawfull power commands; a man, [perhaps] may obey;</HI> So [perhaps] the Doctrine of obeying unlawfull power may be true, and the Demurrer goes about to confute a Doctrine which him&s;elfe confe&s;&s;eth may be true.</P>
<P>And then with another [perhaps] he &s;aith, <HI>That</HI> Judah <HI>knowing none of the Regall Seed &s;urviving, [perhaps] Submitted to</HI> Athaliahs <HI>Government.</HI> A mo&s;t frivolous, and ignorant [perhaps.] For be&s;ides that God had promi&s;ed, that <HI>Davids</HI> &s;eed &s;hould not faile; <NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Chron. 21. 7.</NOTE> <HI>Jehoiada</HI> the high Prie&s;t knew, there was one of that &s;eede alive: And why did not he preach this Demurrers Doctrine to the people, that they &s;hould not obey the pre&s;ent Tyrrant, and that by it they e&s;tabli&s;hed Tyran|ny; betrayed the title of the ju&s;t Heire? But no &s;uch <NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Chron. 22.</NOTE> Doctrine appeared, but the daughter of <HI>Ahab,</HI> and <HI>Jeza|bel</HI> (very farre from any Title to the Crown of <HI>Judah)</HI> was obeyed &s;ix yeares. Be&s;ides, &s;ee here the &s;lightnes of this man, (who&s;e Doctirne generally is a perhaps and adventure) doth not the very Text &s;ay, <HI>Jeho&s;ha|beth</HI> the high prie&s;ts wife, was Daughter of <HI>Jehoram</HI> and <NOTE PLACE="marg">2 Chron. 22. 11.</NOTE> &s;i&s;ter of <HI>Ahaziah</HI> the late King; And if &s;o, was not her Ti|tle better then that of <HI>Athaliah</HI> a &s;tranger?</P>
<P>Item, <HI>Pag.</HI> 3. He &s;ayes, <HI>The Author concludes more then he undertook to prove.</HI> But would the Demurrer be of|fended, if a man promi&s;ing to give him ten pounds, doe make his guift twenty? And whereas he would gladly know, <HI>what difference betweene lawfull and unlawfull</HI>
<PB N="7" REF="5"> <HI>powers, if both nece&s;&s;arliy mu&s;t be obeyed;</HI> Here indeed by confe&s;&s;ing his ignorance, he might de&s;erve pardon, if it were not affected; For, he might know from the Ca&s;ui&s;ts, that the one is given as to a per&s;on comman|ding by Right of Title. The other by an interpretative con&s;ent, and <HI>pro tali rerum &s;tatu,</HI> for <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">he pre&s;ervation of the Common-Wealth; which is in &s;uch a &s;tate that it would otherwi&s;e be ruined. If I mu&s;t give money to a poore hone&s;t man for charity, and to a thiefe for &s;afe|ty, is there no odds betweene an hone&s;t man, and a thiefe?</P>
<P>As for his rejecting the interpretation of <HI>Rom.</HI> 13. Fir&s;t, he argues from a &s;ingle late writer, but &s;hewes not from him what the Text &s;peakes again&s;t obeying a Ty|rant that wants right, but of a Tyrant that does wrong. For he writes that this Tyrant, is a Terrour to good workes: Now we know a Tyrant in Title may be an encouragement to good workes, and &s;uch there have beene.</P>
<P>It is commonly &s;aid that &s;ome of the be&s;t lawes were made under <HI>Richard</HI> the third. But Secondly again&s;t the Demurrer and his interpretation, are the judgement of the&s;e Pillers of the Church; who under&s;tand that this place affirmeth <HI>the pre&s;ent powers to be the Ordinance of God, and are to be obeyed.</HI> Thirdly, let one Greek word be <GAP DESC="foreign"> <HI>Power or Force,</HI> and the other <GAP DESC="foreign"> <HI>Authority or Magi&s;tracy;</HI> Though <HI>Nimrod</HI> by the former did obtaine the latter; Yet <HI>Paraeus</HI> &s;ayes that his Authority gotten by power was of God. And &s;o by vertue of that Text was to be obeyed; See that place, and others alleadged upon this very Text, by the Author in the la&s;t Edition, and they will abundantly overpoy&s;e this &s;ingle Doc|tors
<PB N="8" REF="6"> opinion, both by rea&s;ons and Authority.</P>
<P>Pag. 4. He comes <HI>to</HI> Caudius <HI>and</HI> Nero, <HI>And fir&s;t &s;aith, That the Apo&s;tle might meane it of <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ny other p<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">wer ab&s;tract<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">dly from the Romanes.</HI> So that he will have the Apo&s;tle mo&s;t impertinently, to tell the Romanes what obedience is to be given by others in another &s;tate, but not by them in their owne. Secondly, Let him remem|ber, that as <HI>Peter M<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">rtyr</HI> &s;aith, the Romanes had now gotten the Empire of the world; And then what was the &s;tate, this Demurrer would have the Apo&s;tle to meane? Thirdly, He &s;ayes nothing to <HI>Claudius,</HI> who was &s;et up directly again&s;t the Councells and Re&s;oluti|ons of the Senates: Neither was there following a free con&s;ent. But yet further, If the Souldiers &s;et up a Go|vernour or Government, and a con&s;ent be &s;o gotten, let this Demurrer talke with his learned Councell, and then &s;peak out plainely, whether Votes gotten by or un|der force be valid. For in &s;ome ca&s;es they &s;peake aloud they are not: Yet it &s;eemes they are, when they may make for their turne. Fourthly, he &s;peakes of &s;ucceed|ing upon Cae&s;ars Title: But was not that Title inter|rupted by a triumvirate? And had not <HI>Claudius</HI> a Sonne when the Souldiers made <HI>Nero</HI> his Succe&s;&s;or? Doth not this man betray his maine bu&s;ine&s;&s;e by yealding; That he who is not the Heire, may be a lawfull Succe&s;&s;or, though an Heire be living?</P>
<P>To the obedience given anciently in this Kingdome and yet continued to lawes of u&s;urpers, <HI>He an&s;wers ge|nerally with doubts, and &s;uppo&s;es according to his irre&s;u|lute manner, and ever and anon, comes in which the u&s;uall burden of the Song; Oathes and Covenants with a paire of [perhaps.]</HI> And whereas <HI>he would lay this obedience on</HI>
<PB N="9" REF="6"> <HI>the darkene&s;&s;e of the times by Topery;</HI> Certainely there were very good Lawyers in times of Popery, and in tho&s;e point, Popery did not darken wherein it had no|thing to doe. Our pre&s;ent Lawyers fetch the maine ground of their profe&s;&s;ion, from Lawyers that were Papi&s;ts, or in times of Popery. And it would be a weak and ridiculous an&s;wer at a Bar to &s;ay; That <HI>Br<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">cton, Forte&s;cue,</HI> or <HI>Ploydon,</HI> were Papi&s;ts, or under the darke|ne&s;&s;e of Popery, and therefore their Te&s;timony mu&s;t be rejected; and as little truth as law he &s;hewes, in &s;aying that the&s;e Lawes have beene ratified by &s;ucceeding Par|liaments, which he &s;hould have produced: <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ut to Salve all, he concludes, that [perhaps] till then not to be judged valid in Law. But were they not held valid and obeyed by the Generation that made them? and that this man will not alow us to doe. But Secondly, let me an&s;wer him, that if he onely &s;ay <HI>[perhaps]</HI> they were not valid, he leaves roome for another to &s;ay <HI>[perhaps]</HI> they were valid, for one [perhaps] leaves roome for another.</P>
<P><HI>Page</HI> 5. To the Te&s;timonies of Divines and Ca&s;ui&s;ts, And fir&s;t to that of <HI>Azorius. He mo&s;t di&s;cretly an&s;wers, That there was a tacite con&s;ent of all;</HI> And is there not &s;uch a one now, all men being taken for rea&s;onable crea|tures. For it is &s;uppo&s;ed, every man as a rationall crea|ture &s;hould, and doth give his con&s;ent; But it is &s;eene by his rea&s;oning, that every man is not <HI>de facto</HI> a rati|onall man. To the rea&s;on of the Second, He with a [perhaps] &s;aith, <HI>It is a Popi&s;h Nicety;</HI> But this a blunt an&s;wer to call all that Popery, which he c<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">n not an&s;wer. And if acute rea&s;ons of Pap<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;t, mu&s;t be Popi&s;h Niceties, what will he leave for Prote&s;tants but Duncery? But in
<PB N="10" REF="7"> que&s;tions that concerne not Popery but Rea&s;on and Ju&s;tice; why is the word Popi&s;h brought in, but to ca&s;t a blemi&s;h on that truth, which he cannot otherwi&s;e con|fute? In rationall things and not of Popi&s;h concern|ment, it is farre more &s;atisfactory to heare a Papi&s;ts wi&s;e rea&s;on then a Prote&s;tants folly. Be&s;ides, the terme of Popi&s;h, indeed doth rather give force to their Rea|&s;ons then weaken them, when a Papi&s;t &s;peakes again&s;t Popi&s;h Intere&s;t. And &s;o doth this and other <HI>Spani&s;h</HI> Authors, who &s;peake herein again&s;t the <HI>Spani&s;h</HI> and Popi&s;h intere&s;t in <HI>England,</HI> (under Queene <HI>Eliza|beth)</HI> and in <HI>Holland;</HI> So he u&s;eth the word Popi&s;h to his owne di&s;advantage. And now having added two Que&s;tions, he leaves the Matter in Que&s;tion, under Que&s;tions. To <HI>Paraeus</HI> who &s;aith, V&s;urping <HI>Nimrods</HI> power was of God, and mu&s;t be obeyed; He an&s;wers, <HI>He beleeves</HI> Nimrods <HI>V&s;urpation was over a people not engaged by Oathes and Covenants.</HI> So here hath hee given up the maine Que&s;tion it &s;elfe, That u&s;urped po|wer may be obeyed, if there be no Oathes and Cove|nants. Thus there remaines now no doubt of the maine po&s;ition; But all the doubt is come to Oathes and Co|venants, &s;o that we have nothing now to doe, but to cleare Oathes and Covenants. As for <HI>Bucers</HI> Te&s;timony, he fe&s;&s;eth his blindne&s;&s;e, <HI>that he &s;ees not how it can be ju&s;ti|fied,</HI> Neither doe I thinke he will ever &s;ee as long as the webb of prejudice and partiality covers his eyes. Yet in this blindne&s;&s;e, he kicks and throwes at <HI>Bucer,</HI> becau&s;e he hardly toucheth his Gall; and yet out of partiall love to <HI>Paraeus,</HI> he grants him the very &s;ame for <HI>Nimrod,</HI> which here he denies to <HI>Bucer.</HI> As for his <HI>obj<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">cting Iack <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="2 letters">de again&s;t</HI> Bucer, why doth he not object al&s;o the
<PB N="11" REF="7"> u&s;urpations of <HI>William Rufus, Henry</HI> the fourth, or <HI>Hen.</HI> the &s;eventh, who not having right Titles to the Crown, might be encouraged, as well as <HI>Jack Cade?</HI> But the name of <HI>Iack Cade</HI> he thinks may &s;erve for a &s;tumbling block to a blind Reader, whereas he that &s;eeth, will &s;tep over both that and the re&s;t. This man no que&s;tion hath heard, that God is the Lord of Heaven and Earth, and di&s;po&s;eth all things as he plea&s;eth; And if he plea&s;e to give a people into the hands and power of &s;uch a one, (as he hath often done) will or can this man re&s;i&s;t and overcome the highe&s;t? or will he re&s;olve not to obey them whom God is re&s;olved to &s;et over him? If ever he <NOTE PLACE="marg">Dan. 8. 18. 25. 35.</NOTE> be re&s;tored to his right rea&s;on with <HI>Nebuchadnezzar,</HI> he will confe&s;&s;e, <HI>That the mo&s;t High doth rule in the King|dome of men, and giveth it to whom&s;oever he will, and &s;ets up over it the ba&s;e&s;t of men.</HI> Let him pitty, and not damne, the once famous, and now di&s;tre&s;&s;ed, and op|pre&s;&s;ed Churches in Greece, who lye under the weight of &s;uch ba&s;e and heavy V&s;urpations, and yet yeild obe|dience to V&s;urpers. Be&s;ides, the ground of obedience being in regard of an authority, gotten by a prevaling <NOTE PLACE="marg">Page 5.</NOTE> power; Is it to be thought, that any who have an ambiti|on to u&s;urpe authority, and have power to get it, will if there were no &s;uch Doctrine, forbeare u&s;urpation, or leave it when they have gotten it, and can keepe it by power? Againe doth not this objection lye again&s;t the Demurrers yeilding his pur&s;e to &s;ave his life? for doth not he here encourage a theefe to goe on in his thefts? But if he plea&s;e, he may find an an&s;wer to both, that the&s;e con&s;equences ratioanally come not from the ones gi|ving his pur&s;e for his per&s;onall &s;afety, nor from the o|thers giving obedience for publique peace and quiet|ne&s;&s;e.
<PB N="12" REF="8"> As <HI>for his preferring of Sathan to Magi&s;tracy,</HI> When <HI>Paraus</HI> &s;peakes &s;o much of an Authority given from God to Sathan, in regard of power, as he did to <HI>Nimrod;</HI> I will not &s;ay this Demurrer [p<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">rhaps] will believe the one, and obey the other; But certainly he doth now in his fal&s;e accu&s;ation (without any <HI>Pa|raeus)</HI> obey him that is the Accu&s;er of the brethren.</P>
<P>Page 6. <HI>He findes him&s;elfe in a &s;traight when either he mu&s;t obey, or el&s;e bring confu&s;ion to a Common Wealth.</HI> But not to obey he is re&s;olved, and therefore by beg|ging the que&s;tion, or rather granting it to him&s;elfe, he breakes through. He &s;aith, It is a &s;inne to obey; where|as this very argument of confu&s;ion is brought to &s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ew, that it is not &s;inne but a duty; <HI>And in</HI> Nimrods <HI>ca&s;e, and el&s;e where (with a perhaps)</HI> he grants it lawfull. And <HI>for his con&s;equences of not recovering from Bondage,</HI> let him give me the &s;ame leave he takes to &s;ay, <HI>He mu&s;t not do evill that good may come thereof;</HI> He mu&s;t not di&s;obey to avoid the&s;e con&s;equences: But the grand Ca&s;e (though the little Ca&s;e will not) very fairely acknowledgeth; <HI>That where lawfull and unlawfull are in que&s;tion, conve|nience, and inconvenience mu&s;t keepe &s;ilence.</HI> Neither are the&s;e con&s;equences &s;o neare, and certaine, as the con|fu&s;ion by di&s;obeying. Be&s;ides, there have beene often remedies for &s;uch con&s;equences; for often, u&s;ur|pations having been upon this very Crowne, they have often been removed. And <HI>Ferdinando</HI> King of <HI>Naples,</HI> leaving his people (upon the very ground, and po&s;ition of the Author oppo&s;ed by the Demurrer) to obey the <HI>French,</HI> who had the pre&s;ent power over them, yet the <HI>French</HI> afterward were expul&s;ed. That of the Ma&s;ters mate he can neither an&s;wer, nor &s;uffer. He &s;aith, <HI>His</HI>
<PB N="13" REF="8"> <HI>Right mu&s;t not be acknowledged;</HI> whereas there is no &s;uch thing in the que&s;tion, but whether his commands &s;hould be obeyed for the &s;afety of the Ship. And then according to his u&s;e, he helps his lame an&s;wer over the &s;tile, with Oathes and Covenants; with are another bu&s;ine&s;&s;e. Yet neither is here a withdrawing from a ble&s;&s;ed union, but a pre&s;ervation of the Common-Wealth from de&s;truction, which by being de&s;troyed can hardly pre&s;erve the ble&s;&s;ed union; yet here &s;omewhat bountifully, <HI>He ju&s;tifies (with his u&s;uall perhaps) tho&s;e that are forced to pro&s;ecute &s;utes under the pre&s;ent C<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">urts.</HI> Yea, <HI>He con&s;ents to the power that there manageth the lawes with a di&s;tinction:</HI> But doe not all his objections of breaking Oathes, allowing u&s;urped power, and <HI>ac|ce&s;&s;arie po&s;t factum,</HI> come in now again&s;t him&s;elfe? For if the Judges have no Authority as well as power, doth not this &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion incourage, approve and abet an u|&s;urped Authority? And what &s;atisfaction can this give to any man, with a quiet con&s;cience to enjoy that which they decree to him? No more then if a Neigh|bour meeting two that have a &s;uite in law, &s;hould pro|nounce the law to be for one, and again&s;t the other; &s;hould that one &s;atisfie his con&s;cience in taking the o|thers e&s;tate into his po&s;&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">&s;&s;ion? Therefore if he will u&s;e the word ju&s;tifie with &s;ence and rea&s;on, he mu&s;t allow an Authroity, which in a ca&s;e of u&s;urpation is grounded on a tacite and interpretative con&s;ent; <HI>He would have all joyne together in di&s;obeying, and that indeed is the de|&s;igne:</HI> But fir&s;t, that is unprofitable; yea, in being over power'd, it is impo&s;&s;ible to any good effect, becau&s;e thus joyning, it will bring indeed a di&s;joyning, taking away all ju&s;tice, and order, give up all to power, and &s;o bring
<PB N="14" REF="9"> confu&s;ion to the whole. And could not the Papi&s;ts whom he accu&s;eth of nicetie, have found out this gro&s;&s;e an&s;wer, in the time of Queene <HI>Elizabeth?</HI> yet they never urged it, and therefore were more reformed in the Doctrine of obedience, then this Demurrer.</P>
<P>And having walked through his di&s;cour&s;e, with Oathes continually in his mouth, now he is come to the right place of u&s;ing them; for all this while his u&s;e of them hath beene but generally a granting of the que&s;ti|on, for upon the matter it &s;peakes this, that if it were not for Oathes, obedience were due. But to &s;ay that the Kings per&s;on cannot dye, is a matter of Mirth, or if you will of Non-&s;en&s;e; e&s;pecially to be put into this Oath; for it amounts to this, that I &s;weare to pre&s;erve the Kings per&s;on, which needes no pre&s;ervation, be|cau&s;e it cannot dye; As for the clau&s;e <HI>of pre&s;erving the Priviledges of Parliament, and Liberties of the Subjects;</HI> which is the maine force, and little el&s;e &s;aid by him; I fir&s;t de&s;ire an an&s;wer of this que&s;tion: Did this objector urge this Oath out of any Pulpit or Pre&s;&s;e, with this Vehemencie and Iteration again&s;t the breach of Privi|ledges by the Prenti&s;es? or was it &s;o pre&s;t again&s;t tho&s;e that &s;ate &s;ome dayes, and for ought apeares, would have &s;ate till this day, if they had power, while many of the Members were driven away? And here, upon this occa|&s;ion let the Demurrer know, that though the combin|ation which managed that breach, were &s;aid to have many &s;core thou&s;ands in that engagement to abet it, and were confident of prevailing, or el&s;e would never have undertaken it; yet the Author (though hearing this) did not for any place of profit apply him&s;elfe to that party, but (as by many witne&s;&s;es can be proved)
<PB N="15" REF="9"> re&s;olved to leave both his place, and any place in the Kingdome, and began a journey to goe out of both; But that God wrought a change. And indeed I cannot blame him, if it were abominable to him to live under &s;uch a Government, it being one of the highe&s;t Cur&s;es; <HI>The rule of Children, and one of the ba&s;e&s;t Va&s;&s;alages to be ruled</HI> <NOTE PLACE="marg">E&s;a. 3. 4.</NOTE> <HI>by them:</HI> And yet upon their Rule and Law-making did this engagement, Act and proceed; Yea, the Hou&s;e it &s;elf; yet Oathes then not preached as now. So by a &s;econd experiment it apperes, he could part from a place of pro|fit, if he &s;aw rea&s;on for it.</P>
<P>But if we looke to the Oath it &s;elfe, doth the Oath <NOTE PLACE="marg">The words of the Co|venat are the&s;e, wee &s;hall with the &s;ame &s;incerity, reality and con&s;tancy in our &s;eve+rall vocati|ons, ende|vor with our e&s;tates and lives mutually to pre&s;erve the Rights and Privi|ledges of the Parlia|ments, and Liberties of the peo|ple, &amp;c.</NOTE> bind us actually to pre&s;erve the Priviledges of Parlia|ment, or onely to endeavour to pre&s;erve them? For actu|ally to pre&s;erve them, may be, and is often out of our power, and then we &s;hould &s;weare to doe that which is impo&s;&s;ible for us to performe. If this Demurrer had re|ceived a &s;umme of money, and had &s;worne that he would indeavor to pre&s;erve it &s;afe for the owner; but a Robber takes this &s;umme by force from him, or will kill him, if he doe not deliver it; is this man guilty of Perju|ry, if having &s;incerely intended, and endeavoured to pre|&s;erve it, yet in the&s;e ca&s;es he part from the money?</P>
<P>Thirdly, is the giving of all to confu&s;ion by di&s;obedi|ence, the way to keepe priviledges of Parliament, and liberties of the people; or rather the way to loo&s;e both Parliament and Liberties, and to give up all to a popular confu&s;ion, or to a Military power to be ruled by force, and not by lawes? Breifely, if obedience be a duty in regard of Common good, (which is the generall Tenet held forth by Divines, and Ca&s;ui&s;ts) how doth an Oath binde to the breach of a duty, or to the de&s;truction of
<PB N="16" REF="10"> the Common-Wealth, which indeed was made for the pre&s;ervation of it? And let the De|murrer &s;ay ingenuou&s;ly whether he thinkes that &s;uch a de&s;tructive &s;en&s;e was the meaning of the Oath, and &s;o Or|dinarily under&s;tood by the Givers or Takers.</P>
<P>And now Page 8. He goes about to prove that the Heire is already a Succe&s;&s;or, and yet complaines that &s;ome keepe the Heire from being a Succe&s;&s;or; and after (not by a Popi&s;h nicety, but a Popi&s;h ab&s;urdity) he maintaines the ince&s;tuous Title of Queene <HI>Mary,</HI> and calls her Hei<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">e to the Crowne. And herewith another [perhaps] He &s;peakes that which is uncharitable with it, and untrue without it; and nothing but want of charity would have &s;poken an untruth in a &s;candalous manner, though with a [perhaps.] For the Gent. hath beene excu&s;ed by rea|&s;on of Age in point of attendance, and &s;o the Demurrer having taken back to him&s;elfe his owne uncharitable|ne&s;&s;e, and untruth, (for perhaps cannot make that to have bin true, which what&s;oever happen was not true) he hath nothing left to helpe him, but confe&s;&s;ion and a|mendment.</P>
<P>But to draw to an end, I wi&s;h that this Demurrer would &s;o farre know him&s;elfe, that he is mo&s;t unfit for dealing in controver&s;ies; being mo&s;t irre&s;olute in him|&s;elfe, and therefore unfit to re&s;olve others: He hath at his back both a wall, and a back-doore, when he is bea|ten out of the m<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="KEYERS" EXTENT="1 letter">ine que&s;tion, then he runs to the wall, but ill daw bed of Oathes and Covenants; and when he is pre&s;t not onely by Arguments, but his owne con&s;ci|ence to confe&s;&s;e the Truth, he leaves open a back doore call'd [perhaps] to &s;hift him&s;elfe out: But let him know that at this doore the po&s;ition which he oppo|&s;eth
<PB N="17" REF="10"> may get out al&s;o. For example; among many [perhaps] he &s;aith thus: A people may [perhaps] law|fully <NOTE PLACE="marg">Page 2.</NOTE> obey a Government, when there is no proba|bility of recovering their lo&s;t Government. Here if it be inferred, that there is no probability of recovering, He hath left a [perhaps] to get out of the conclu&s;ion. But his oppo&s;er will tell him that with the &s;ame [perhaps] his po&s;ition may be true and e&s;cape al&s;o. So Page 3. When an unlawfull power commands lawfull things, a man [perhaps] may obey: If &s;o, Then [perhaps] the Author affirming the &s;ame thing, may have &s;aid true: And if &s;o, why is this party &s;o angry and uncharitable, without a [perhaps] for that with [perhaps] may be true? But thus it falls out, when men are re&s;olved to fight with a truth that &s;tares in their faces; the truth breakes out of the mouth of their con&s;cience, and then they put a Muzell called [perhaps] upon it, that it may not &s;peake plaine. What is this, but to impri&s;on the truth in unrighteou&s;ne&s;&s;e, to leave people in doubt, whom they undertake to re&s;olve, by blind gui|ding of the blind, to leave them in the Darke, that they may not know where nor whether to goe, and at la&s;t fall into the Ditch? Let him &s;ee the truth him&s;elfe, be|fore he undertake to teach others. Let him receive the Truth fully, and that &s;hall make him fully free. Free from error, free from uncharitablene&s;&s;e, and &s;landers, the fruits of it. Let him not out of prejudice again&s;t the Truth, and the Author that maintaines it, make Warre again&s;t <HI>Calvin, Bucer, Paraeus, Gualter, Peter Martyr;</HI> and if he have Charity to forgive them, let him enlarge it a little to forgive the Author al&s;o, that &s;ayes after, and with them. But indeed there is little
<PB N="18" REF="11"> cau&s;e for him to give, but much to receive forgivene&s;&s;e. For in his Title, having called him&s;elfe a lover of Truth and Peace, even in the very face of that Title, and in the &s;ame Page; he is not a&s;hamed to utter &s;uch untrue &s;can|dals, that he confutes his owne Name, by gro&s;&s;e eviden|ces, &s;hewing that he loves neither truth nor peace. And whereas &s;undry other per&s;ons that have written on this Subject, have dealt like men of Religion and Rea&s;on, an&s;wering Matter with Matter, Rea&s;on with Rea&s;on; This Demurrers tongue being &s;et on fire of Hell, an|&s;wers Matter and Rea&s;on with Scandalous untruthes. And this I charge upon his Con&s;cience, wi&s;hing that the worme of guilt may never leave biting, untill by Re|mor&s;e it worke Repentance, and by Repentaece For|givene&s;&s;e.</P>
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