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<DATE>2008-02-25</DATE>
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<NAME>Emma Leeson Huber</NAME>
<RESP>MURP</RESP>
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<ITEM>Corrected 18 illegibles of 59. Converted 41 illegibles To GAP DESC="illegible RESP="oxf".</ITEM>
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<IDG S="marc" R="OX" ID="A80400">
<STC T="W">C6009</STC>
<STC T="T">E316_3</STC>
<BIBNO T="umi">99861242</BIBNO>
<VID>113373</VID>
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<TEXT>
<BODY>
<DIV1 TYPE="text">
<PB REF="1" MS="y">
<HEAD>THE OLD PROVERBE, <HI>As good be a Knave, as among&s;t Knaves</HI> (though Com|mittee men) is debated, and concluded to be fal&s;e, by <HI>Francis Cooke,</HI> and <HI>Thomas Gualter,</HI> as they were riding between <HI>London</HI> and <HI>Cambridge,</HI> and conferring upon this proverb, and many other things u&s;efull for all to know, but more e&s;pecially for &s;ome in authority. In which conference the innocent, and &s;uch as have &s;tood for the truth, are made known and commended, and the nocent and &s;uch as u&s;e deceit and fal&s;hood are di&s;covered, and left to bear their de&s;erved &s;hame and puni&s;hment. AS ALSO THE CRUEL AND UNREASO|nable doings of &s;ome Committee men, and others, again&s;t good men, and &s;uch as have been mo&s;t forward for the Parlia|ment: &s;ome of their abu&s;es &s;tript, which de&s;erve to be whipt.</HEAD>
<EPIGRAPH>
<BIBL>Prov. 1.10.13.</BIBL>
<Q>My Son, if &s;inners intice thee, con&s;ent thou not: if they &s;ay, we will fill our hou&s;es with &s;poil, come ca&s;t in thy lot among&s;t us, we will have one pur&s;e.</Q>
<BIBL>Prov. 11.8, 9.</BIBL>
<Q>

The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his &s;teed. An hypocrite with his mouth de&s;troyeth his neighbour, but through knowledge &s;hall the ju&s;t be delivered.</Q>
<BIBL>Iam. 1.26.</BIBL>
<Q>

That man that &s;eemeth to be religious, and refraineth not his tongue, his religion is vain.</Q>
<BIBL>Matth. 5.</BIBL>
<Q>

Ble&s;&s;ed are ye when men revile you, and &s;peak all manner of evil again&s;t you fal&s;ly for my &s;ake.</Q>
<BIBL>1 Pet. 3.17.</BIBL>
<Q>

For it is better (if the will of God be &s;o) that you &s;uffer for well-do|ing, then for evil doing.</Q>
<BIBL>P&s;al. 50.</BIBL>
<Q>

But to the wicked &s;aid God, what ha&s;t thou to do to take my words into thy mouth, &s;eeing thou hate&s;t to be reformed?</Q>
</EPIGRAPH>
<HEAD>A CONFERENCE BETWEENE <HI>FRANCIS COOKE,</HI> And <HI>THOMAS GVALTER,</HI> as they were riding betweene LONDON and CAMBRIDGE.</HEAD>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Thomas Gaulter,</SPEAKER>
<P>YOu are well overtaken Mr. <HI>Cook,</HI> how far travell you this way?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Francis Cook.</SPEAKER>
<P>To <HI>Cambridge.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Ga.</SPEAKER>
<P>So do I, what &s;hall we get thither to night; think you?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>No, but to morrow in the forenoon, I hope, I u&s;e to ride ea&s;ily.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>I will ride as ea&s;ily as you, for I de&s;ire to have &s;ome talk with you about your brother <HI>Scotten,</HI> what think you? had it not been better for him to have been quiet, and have let his fellow &s;eque&s;trators alone? I beleeve he repents it now.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<PB N="2" REF="2">
<SPEAKER>Cook.</SPEAKER>
<P>Then it &s;eems you think the old proverb is true, as good be a knave, as among&s;t knaves, I grant you, that if my brother <HI>Scotten</HI> had not reproved them, and complained of their mi&s;demeanors concerning the &s;eque&s;tration, they had not complained of him to the commi&s;&s;ioners of the exci&s;e, nor &s;eque&s;tred his goods, as they have done: my brother heard before that &s;ome of them did threaten him, that if he complained of them about the &s;eque&s;tration, they would out him of the exci&s;e office: but not knowing wherein he had offended, was no whit deterred, but being bound by a double band to di&s;clo&s;e their naughty doings, did proceed to complain again&s;t them, what though he did expo&s;e him|&s;elf to their rage, he thought it better to do &s;o, then wor&s;e.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>You &s;eem to charge &s;ome Committee men, and other officers (I know who you mean) to be knaves, I think you do very ill, for there be many deceived if they be not hone&s;t men, and very forward for the Parliament: but I am not of opinion it is as good be a knave, as among&s;t knaves, but that a man &s;hould rather &s;uffer any thing in his name, per&s;on, and e&s;tate, then joyn with knaves in their knavery, but it will be a hard task to prove them to be knaves.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>My bro <HI>Scotten</HI> was once of your mind, he being in a manner a &s;tranger to them, yet their &s;eeming forwardnes for the Parliament, and their cunning carriage, made him beleeve they were men converted, in&s;omuch, that when they, or any of them &s;uffered, he was bound to &s;uffer with them, &s;pake, writ, and &s;pent much money and time in their be|halfs, yea lo&s;t the favour of many great and good men in pleading their cau&s;e, for my br. bearing an hone&s;t mind, did think they had done &s;o too; and whereas you &s;ay I &s;eem to charg them to be knaves, I do not love foul language, but when you have heard but &s;ome of their carriages, which are known to many, and may be proved again&s;t them, then <HI>I</HI> &s;hall leave it to you, and to all men, to judge what they be.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>It may be they will &s;ay they can prove as much again&s;t your br. <HI>Scotten.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>I am &s;ure &s;ome of them have fouly &s;candalized him already, but they neither have, nor can prove the lea&s;t tittle again&s;t him in his offices, that was in his power to help, and when it is known how their tongues are accu&s;tomed to &s;lander, not only good men, but al&s;o great men, not &s;paring the Parliament, nor the a&s;&s;embly of Divines, and other orthodox Mini&s;ters, then it will be thought no marvell if they &s;hall deal &s;o with my brother: but I &s;hall pa&s;&s;e by many of their mi&s;demeanors, both in their words and acti|ons, which although they are true, cannot be proved &s;o clearly, an in&s;tance again&s;t them, and in the behalf of my brother <HI>Scotten,</HI> in &s;uch things as are well known to many, and may be fully proved&punc;</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>If you will do &s;o, Ile tell you after, what I have heard them and others affirm con|cerning your brother <HI>Scotten,</HI> I would gladly know how you or he can an&s;wer them, for <HI>I</HI> de&s;ire to be rightly informed, if he be an hone&s;t man, he is much wronged.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>It is very true what the Scriptures &s;ay, <HI>Prov</HI> 4. <HI>he that reproveth a &s;corner, purcha|&s;eth to him&s;elf &s;hame, and he that rebuketh a wicked man, getteth him&s;elf a blot</HI>: for I am well a&s;&s;ured, my brother is exceedingly wronged by them, and by many others that &s;ide with them, &s;ince he began to reproove them, and complain again&s;t them: but I &s;hall begin, and fir&s;t I &s;hall in&s;tance <HI>Downham</HI> hou&s;e, they &s;elling the be&s;t of tho&s;e hou&s;hold goods that were the Bi&s;hops, to them&s;elves, and to one another, at undervalues, in&s;omuch that it is grown into a proverb in Cambridge&s;hire, and the I&s;le of Elie, that <HI>Luke Voyce</HI> &s;old to <HI>L. Voyce,</HI> &amp;c. to make &s;hort, it is mo&s;t certain, that <HI>L. Voyce</HI> &s;old to him&s;elf, and to his &s;ons, the riche&s;t, and the be&s;t of that hou&s;hold &s;tuffe, except one room ready furni&s;hed and hanged with tape&s;try, for 20. l. to <HI>Jam Whinnell,</HI> which &s;ome &s;ay was worth 60. l. I never &s;aw it to take any notice of it, and they made my brother beleeve they gave to
<PB N="3" REF="2">
the full value of them, untill every one cryed &s;hame of their doings.</P>
<P>Secondly, I &s;hall in&s;tance in <HI>Downham</HI> parke, with the lands adjoyning, worth 120.l. <HI>per annum, L. &V;oyce</HI> having a &s;hare therein, let it be examined what it hath yeelded to the State, I am &s;ure it had not yeelded 1.d. when my brother complained in <HI>June</HI> 1645.</P>
<P>Thirdly, Mr. <HI>Pigs</HI> goods &s;old, and part of his lands, let between <HI>Ia. Whinnell</HI> and his father, and <HI>W. Nichols</HI> at undervalues.</P>
<P>Fourthly, &s;ome of them combine with <HI>Th Wil&s;on</HI> of <HI>Emneth,</HI> a notorious Malignant to conceal about 120.l. from the &s;tate, which the &s;aid <HI>Wil&s;on</HI> was in arrears to Mr. <HI>Dove</HI> a delinquent.</P>
<P>Fiftly, the better to colour their naughty doings, after my brother had complained of them, they draw on 2. others, and give this <HI>Th. Wil&s;on</HI> 4. months longer time, under a pretence it was po&s;&s;ible he might cleare him&s;elfe of the concealment of the &s;aid 120. l. when he had had to long time given him before, which they have done in favour to the &s;aid <HI>Wil&s;on,</HI> and in wrong to the State, and contrary to a former order con&s;ented to by the &s;aid <HI>Wil&s;on</HI>: and yet this <HI>Wil&s;on</HI> known unto them to be a bitter per&s;ecutor of my brother <HI>Scotten</HI> in the Bi&s;hops times, and a wicked reviler of the pre&s;ent Parliament.</P>
<P>Sixtly, they under colour of their office, joyn with this <HI>Thom Wil&s;on</HI> again&s;t a godly painfull preacher, approved of by the a&s;&s;embly, and put in by the honourable Commit|tee for plundred mini&s;ters, and made it co&s;t him above 60.l, before he could enjoy the profits given him by the &s;aid Committee, &s;uch is their hatred to godly preachers.</P>
<P>Seventhly, after my brother began to &s;u&s;pect them, he looked into their accounts, and found them to be defective, imperfect, and fal&s;e, wronging the State for their owne ad|vantage, not regarding their oaths.</P>
<P>Eightly, my brother complained &s;everall times to &s;ome of them, that there were a|mong&s;t them, that gathered up &s;ome hundreds of pounds, and paid it not into the trea&s;u|rers appointed&punc; be&s;ides 160. l. one of them was in arrear to the late Arch-deacon of Ely, which was al&s;o the Parliaments money: yet although my brother waited long, he could get no ju&s;tice done among&s;t them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>You need in&s;tance in no more, if you can but prove the&s;e, but if I be not deceived, your brother did complain of mo&s;t of the&s;e things the 20 of <HI>Iune</HI> la&s;t, to the Committee of the accounts of the Kingdome, why did he not prove the&s;e things again&s;t them then?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C</SPEAKER>
<P>I'le tell you why, they knowing them&s;elves to be in an evil taking, and that it was like to fall foul upon them, they mo&s;t cunningly contrive and plot which way to take of my brother from pro&s;ecuting his complaints again&s;t them, and to this end in <HI>July</HI> la&s;t, they &s;eize and drive away his milch cowes, plow and cart hor&s;es and mares, in all, neere 30. head of cattell, be&s;ides neer 60.l. worth of cole &s;eed, to the great affrightment of his wife and children, leaving his hou&s;e de&s;titute of nece&s;&s;ary provi&s;ion, his land untilled, and his harve&s;t uncarted in, and be&s;ides leave a great &s;candall upon him: &s;o by this means they take him off from proving his complaints, he had now another taske in hand, to clear him&s;elf, &amp; to petition to get his goods again, his wife not being able to bear cro&s;|&s;es &s;o well as he, it was no little trouble to him, his family, and friends.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>Why, but your brother was an unwi&s;e man, did he know his goods liable to &s;eque|&s;tration, and would he go and complain again&s;t them, and &s;o inrage them: he that re|proves or complains again&s;t others, &s;hould be without fault him&s;elf.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>You &s;ay truly in that, I will not go about to ju&s;tifie my brother, &s;o as if he had no failings, but that he &s;hould be liable to &s;eque&s;tration is a riddle to him and me, one that hath been &s;o forward for the Parliament as he hath been.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>But <HI>I</HI> have credibly heard, that your brother did receive of <HI>Jonas Dunch</HI> of <HI>Elye</HI>
<PB N="4" REF="3">
a collector 500.l. to pay in to the Trea&s;urers at <HI>Guild-hall London,</HI> and he paid in but 400.l. to them, and kept 100.l. to him&s;elf, and for that they &s;eque&s;tred him.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>My brother will confe&s;&s;e that, and yet never the more to blame, for he was then Trea&s;urer, and at the reque&s;t of <HI>Ja. Whinnell,</HI> did pay in 100. l. of the exci&s;e money at <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> to Mr. <HI>Brown</HI> &s;ubtrea&s;urer for the Earl of <HI>Manche&s;ter,</HI> for his 3d. part of the &s;eque&s;tration money in the I&s;le of <HI>Ely,</HI> there being then great need of the money, to go again&s;t <HI>Crowland,</HI> and was to receive that 100 l. again of <HI>Ionas Dunch</HI> at <HI>Ely,</HI> in the way as he went to <HI>London</HI>: for &s;aid <HI>Ia. Whinnell,</HI> why &s;hould we be at co&s;t and trouble to fetch 100.l. from <HI>Ely</HI> hither of the &s;eque&s;tration money? and mu&s;t carry &s;o much of the exci&s;e money thither towards <HI>London,</HI> both labours may this way be &s;aved: my brother perceiving he &s;pake rea&s;on, con&s;ented to him, and it was done accordingly: but now you have brought it into my mind, I will tell you of a pranke <HI>Ia. Whinnell</HI> did at that time, for the &s;ame time my brother received the 500.l. of <HI>I. Dunch,</HI> which was in <HI>Dec.</HI> 1644 he received al&s;o plate worth 25.l. odd &s;hillings, which he carried up to <HI>London</HI> with th<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> 500.l. my brother intending it &s;hould be &s;old, and at that time paid into the Trea&s;urer<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> at <HI>Guild hall,</HI> but pre&s;ently after their accounts were given in, the plate was &s;old, and <HI>Ia Whinnell</HI> pur&s;ed up the money, and had not paid it in the 29. <HI>Sept.</HI> la&s;t, but made u&s;e of it him&s;elf all that while, if not &s;till.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>But <HI>I</HI> pray you tell me truly, had not your brother <HI>Scotten</HI> 100.l. of the States money in his hand when they di&s;trayned his goods?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>No, nor one penny, for he had expended more in the States &s;ervice upon nece&s;&s;ary expences then he had to account for to the State, &s;o that although he had 87. l. 6. s. 6, d. for which he was to be accountable for: yet being allowed for nece&s;&s;ary charges and pains according to the ordinance for &s;eque&s;tration, as it is there expre&s;&s;ed, p. 8 l. 1. in the&s;<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> words. <HI>La&s;tly it is ordained, that all and every the &s;aid &s;eque&s;trators and Committee; &s;hall have allowances for their nece&s;&s;ary charges and pains in and about the premi&s;es, as they &s;hall be allowed by both hou&s;es of Parliament. I</HI> &s;ay his expences being mo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="2 letters"> then his fellow &s;eque&s;trators, and more then 87.l. 6.s. 6 in two years, he had not (as <HI>I</HI> &s;aid before) one penny in his hand, is it probable that he &s;hould fir&s;t complaine to &s;ome o<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> them, and after to others, that <HI>Ja Whinnell, Wil. Nichols,</HI> and <HI>Ric. Pon&s;onby,</HI> and others, kept the States money in their hands, and be guilty of the &s;ame offence him&s;elf?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>Why then did they &s;eque&s;ter his goods, was not there fir&s;t a fair tryall? had he not notice given that he might an&s;wer for him&s;elf, before they did &s;eque&s;ter him?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>No, my brother <HI>Scotten</HI> never knew of it untill it was done, was never &s;ummone<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> to make any account, neither was there any cau&s;e why he &s;hould, nor was he ever called t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> an&s;wer for him&s;elf: but have you forgotten what I hinted to you before, it was to tak<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> him off from proving his former complaints again&s;t them, they would &s;et him to work<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> upon another &s;ubject, to go &s;ee if he could get his goods and credit again, they would teach him to tell tales out of the &s;chool.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>If this be true which you tell me, they are mo&s;t abhominable in their doings, and they have wronged your brother exceedingly, for as you &s;ay, the ordinance for &s;eque&s;tra|tion doth intend allowance for nece&s;&s;ary charges and pains, but if it did not, it &s;eemes each of them had more in their hands at the &s;ame time, then your brother was to be ac|countable for: but what did your brother do when he heard of it, did he not de&s;ire his goods again, untill there might be a fair tryall, and know for what cau&s;e they &s;eque&s;tred him?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea, what <HI>I</HI> have told you is mo&s;t true, and I'le tell you what my brother did, the fir&s;t 2. or 3. daies he could not tell what to think upon it, that his cattle &s;hould be driven
<PB N="5" REF="3">
away, nor by what authority, nor for what cau&s;e; at la&s;t he heard by the authority of <HI>Ia. Whinnell, L. Voyce,</HI> and <HI>Ric. Pon&s;onby</HI> his fellow Seque&s;trators, and <HI>W. Nichols</HI> their Collector, and that it was for this 100.l. he received of <HI>Ion. Dunch</HI> (as you heard it) and then he &s;ent &s;ome neighbours and friends, to de&s;ire of them that he might have his milch cowes again, his plow, and cart hor&s;es and mares for his pre&s;ent u&s;e, and he would put them in what &s;ecurity they would require, that they &s;hould be forth comming the la&s;t of <HI>Sept.</HI> then next following, in ca&s;e he did not betwixt that and then (which was about 8. weeks between) bring an order to have them again, they peremptorily refu&s;ed, yet my brother &s;taid a while longer before he went to <HI>London</HI> to complain, thinking they had not been &s;o far tran&s;ported with rage, but upon cold blood they would have yeelded to &s;o rea&s;onable a reque&s;t; but after he perceived they had &s;old them, up he goeth to <HI>London</HI> and doth petition the Lords and Commons for &s;eque&s;tration, who after &s;ome weeks at|tendance, referred it to the &s;tanding Committee at <HI>Cambridge,</HI> to &s;end for the parties on both &s;ides, and their witne&s;&s;es, and examine them and end, or certifie within a moneth.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>Is it po&s;&s;ible they &s;hould refu&s;e to let him have his milch cowes, plow and cart hor|&s;es and mares, tho&s;e nece&s;&s;ary cattle upon &s;ecurity, and that but for 8. weeks, this makes them more and more odious, and I think if the&s;e things be proved, they will be judged to be unfit men to be imployed in any office under the Parliament. But what did the Committee at <HI>Cambridge</HI> in it?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>My brother &s;aith he is bound to honour that Committee for their ju&s;tice, for after they had examined 5. or 6. witne&s;&s;es on his behalf, they perceived that malice was the cau&s;e they &s;eque&s;tred his goods, but becau&s;e <HI>I. Whinnell</HI> did alleadge that they could not have their witne&s;&s;es there (although they had warning and time enough) and did further alleadge, that he mu&s;t of nece&s;&s;ity go to <HI>London,</HI> &s;o that the month would be out, which was the time limitted to end the bu&s;ines, the Committee did not fully end it then, but ordered that for the pre&s;ent my brother &s;hould have his milch cowes, plow, and cart hor|&s;es and mares again (they being &s;old but for 40.l. as them&s;elves confe&s;&s;ed) the Commit|tee being informed that the parties that had bought them (con&s;idering how my brother was wronged) were willing he &s;hould have them again, and further ordered&punc; that his o|ther goods which were un&s;old, &s;hould not be &s;old, untill the cau&s;e was fully heard, and that if they did prove &s;eque&s;trable, my brother &s;hould pay the &s;aid 40 l. to the State.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>What hath your brother done, hath he yet got longer time of the Committee of Lords and Commons, that the gentlemen at <HI>Cambridge</HI> might hear it out, and deter|mine it?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Not as yet, for they would not obey the order of the Committee of <HI>Cambridge,</HI> un|till very lately, that they heard they were like to be &s;ent for up, to an&s;wer their contempt before the Committee of Lords and Commons, <HI>I. Whinnell</HI> being &s;o far from obeying the order of Committee of Lords and Commons, that &s;ince their order of reference to the &s;tanding Committee at <HI>Cambridge,</HI> he hath forged a warrant, and counterfeited hands, and &s;ent men into <HI>Norfolk</HI> with that forged warrant, hath taken 40. coombe of cole-&s;eed from my brother, which grew there, where he had nothing to do to &s;eque&s;ter, pretending in the warrant, he took it for the State, but cau&s;ed it to be brought into his own chamber at <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> and then &s;aid he had a right to it him&s;elf, this forged war|rant my brothers &s;onne did get from the men, and it is to be &s;eene with the counterfet hands: be&s;ides, in&s;teed of obeying the order of Committee of Lords and Commons, and of the Committee of <HI>Cambridge,</HI> they did &s;till proceed, and &s;eized upon my brothers wheat, impri&s;oned and fined tho&s;e that did help him to make money for the reliefe of him and his family, notwith&s;tanding that the much honoured Governour of the I&s;le (at
<PB N="6" REF="4">
my brothers reque&s;t) required them to forbear, and yeeld obedience to the &s;aid orders. And now my brother hath voluntarily &s;ent in his accounts in particular to the Com|mi&s;&s;ioners for the accounts of <HI>Cambridge&s;hire,</HI> where it will evidently appear, that my brother was to be accountable but onely for 87.l. 6, s. 6.d. of the States money, before they &s;eque&s;tred his goods, which being not &s;o much as he expended in the States &s;ervice in two years upon nece&s;&s;ary charges, it mu&s;t needs follow that he had not one penny of the States money in his hand when they &s;eque&s;tred his goods (as I &s;aid unto you before,) which when the &s;tanding Committee at <HI>Cambridge</HI> perceive plainly to be &s;o, they can|not but in ju&s;tice re&s;tore to my brother all his goods again, they being &s;o unju&s;tly taken from him, and allow him for reparation of his lo&s;&s;es, his dammage being very great in his e&s;tate, be&s;ides what he hath been damnified in his credit, which is not a little, a good name being better then precious ointment, as <HI>Solomon</HI> &s;aith.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>Some &s;ay <HI>Ia. Whinnell</HI> gave it forth he would not have &s;eque&s;tred your brothers goods, but that he was the cau&s;e to hinder his brother in law for preaching any more at <HI>Wi&s;beech;</HI> and they further &s;ay, that very many there are much imbittered again&s;t your brother for that.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea I heard that <HI>Ia. Whinnell</HI> did &s;ay &s;o, but I do not beleeve for all his &s;aying, that that was the cau&s;e alone, but it is true, that many people thereabout are much inra|ged again&s;t my brother for that; but they have no rea&s;on &s;o to be, I hope they will &s;ee their errors one day, and be &s;orry for them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>Ile tell you now the particulars they reckon up again&s;t your brother, they do not let to &s;ay, he hath beene a contentious man mo&s;t part of his time, and they in&s;tance in the&s;e following. Fir&s;t he contended with Vicar <HI>Giles</HI> 12. yeares together, and with his &s;on in law <HI>Tho. Wil&s;on,</HI> not only about the Ship money, but al&s;o about Tre&s;pa&s;&s;es; and that your brother almo&s;t alone in the countrey oppo&s;ed the paying of the &s;aid Ship-money, in &s;o much that men were con&s;trained to di&s;traine him for it: And now in re|prooving his fellow Seque&s;trators and then complaining of them and of their Collector <HI>Will Nichols.</HI> And then &s;peaking of <HI>Ja. Whinnels</HI> debts and arre&s;ting him at <HI>London</HI> and that yo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">r brother was the cau&s;e of the di&s;placing the Vicar of <HI>Wi&s;beech.</HI> And that he framed a fal&s;e Petition to the Committee of plundered Mini&s;ters, to get in a Mini|&s;ter in the roome of a Delinquent Mini&s;ter that la&s;t had it. And that it was agreed on betweene him and the Mini&s;ter, that it he could procure the per&s;onage for him, it be|ing worth 200. <HI>l. per. an.</HI> he &s;hould have it for 100 l. a yeare. And that your brother being in debt 60. to Mr. <HI>Nichols</HI> a Preacher that formerly had the &s;aid par&s;onage, did threaten him in writing, that unle&s;&s;e he would forgive him his debt, and let him his per&s;onage &s;till, he would complaine of him to the Parliament, for he knew faults e|nough by him that would ca&s;t him out, but if he would doe the former two things, let him be as bad as he would, he would not meddle with him. And they &s;ay your bro|ther hath &s;ought to be revenged on <HI>Ja. Whinnell,</HI> complaining again&s;t him to the Committee of Examinations, and they &s;peake hardly concerning the witne&s;&s;es that te|&s;tified again&s;t him, becau&s;e they did not complaine of it before, and they &s;ay further that he is &s;uch a &s;trong Presbiterian that he is the only man that oppo&s;eth their procee|dings in tho&s;e parts about Religion.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>If all the&s;e were true, my brother were bad enough, though many of them de&s;erve prai&s;e, were but the weather &s;ociable, the wayes cleaner, or the wind lower, I &s;hould &s;pend two houres time in an&s;wering the&s;e things, but being as it is, I &s;hall be very briefe, but &s;o as <HI>I</HI> hope I &s;hall make it plainely appea<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">e that in mo&s;t of the&s;e things my brother de&s;erveth prai&s;e, and that &s;ome of them (as they are reported) are very fal&s;e. I
<PB N="7" REF="4">
&s;hall begin with Vicar <HI>Giles</HI> or Iame <HI>Giles</HI> (for &s;o he was called) my brother living in the &s;ame Towne with him and farming the par&s;onage there, heard him deliver the&s;e po|pi&s;h points, That men &s;ince the fall had abilitie to keep Gods commandements. That the &s;econd Commandement was indeed no commandement, but a commentary on the fir&s;t. That it is not lawfull for lay men to read the Scriptures, That &s;ome men were in Heaven for their good workes, That before the words of Con&s;ecration, the bread in the Sacrament was indeed bread, but after tho&s;e words, it was the very bodie of Chri&s;t and ought to be adored. My brother after two or three times talking with him concer|ning the&s;e points in private, he &s;till per&s;i&s;ting, after prayers were ended my brother told the people that Mr. <HI>Giles</HI> taught them fal&s;e Doctrine, Mr. <HI>Giles</HI> &s;aid beare witne&s;&s;e, and &s;hortly after obtained of the Church-Wardens to pre&s;ent my brother in the Bi&s;hops Court before Doctor <HI>Eden,</HI> who &s;u&s;pended him and injoyned recantation. But becau&s;e my brother would not deny the truth, he brought above 20. witne&s;&s;es before the Bi&s;hop and Dr. <HI>Eden</HI> at the Bi&s;hops pallace at <HI>Downham</HI> to prove <HI>Giles</HI> his evill life and fal&s;e doctrine, Bi&s;hop <HI>Buckridge</HI> only reproved <HI>Giles.</HI> About this Bi&s;hops death, Vicar <HI>Giles</HI> about with this bu&s;ine&s;&s;e againe before Dr. <HI>Eden</HI> at <HI>Cambridge,</HI> my brother becau&s;e of Dr. <HI>Edens</HI> inju&s;tice there, was advi&s;ed to appeale into the Arches where it became two &s;uits, Dr. <HI>Eden</HI> was advocate for <HI>Giles</HI> there, after Vicar <HI>Giles</HI> neglected Dr. <HI>Eden,</HI> And then he turned to my brother, and advi&s;ed him to &s;ue <HI>Giles</HI> in the Audience, but after a yeare or two the Dr turned to <HI>Giles</HI> againe. After many yeares my brother was ca&s;t in the Arches both in the Gravamen and the principall cau&s;e by Sir <HI>Io. Lambe,</HI> at which time and before my brother &s;ought agreement with Vicar <HI>Giles,</HI> and offered him money enough No, &s;aith Vicar <HI>Giles,</HI> I &s;eeke not your money but you; you &s;hall recant. He had thought to have converted my brother to him: but he being re&s;olved not to deny the t<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">uth, what ever came of it, appealed to the Delegates: After 2 or 3. yeares there, D. <HI>Eden</HI> being &s;till advocate for <HI>Giles,</HI> both &s;uits pa&s;t again&s;t my brother, who a|gain tendred Vicar <HI>Giles</HI> all co&s;t, and a great deal more money, but nothing would &s;erve the Vicar, but he mu&s;t recant; he would not, &s;o it co&s;t my brother in 12 year<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">t being in 4. courts, what with tran&s;mi&s;&s;ion of all the books, many commi&s;&s;ions, one charge or other) above 400. l. and was con&s;trained to live for the mo&s;t part of 3. years and a half about <HI>London</HI> to keep from the Vicars rage: this <HI>T. Wil&s;on</HI> was then &s;olicitor, again&s;t my brother in the behalf of his father <HI>Giles,</HI> and per&s;ecuted him fiercely, and cau&s;ed my bro|ther during the &s;pace of the&s;e 12. years to be pre&s;ented at Doctor <HI>Edens</HI> court at <HI>Ely</HI> 100 times and more, becau&s;e he went to hear the next preacher, when Vicar <HI>Giles</HI> did not preach, he u&s;ually preaching not above once in 4. or 6. weeks: At la&s;t a Parliament came my brother did petition again&s;t this <HI>Giles,</HI> and again&s;t Doct. <HI>Eden,</HI> Sir I. <HI>Lamb,</HI> Iudge <HI>Bartlet</HI> and others, for inju&s;tice, he had Vicar <HI>Giles</HI> voted an unfit man for the mini|&s;try, by the grand Committee for &s;candalous mini&s;ters. But his other petition again&s;t the Iudges for inju&s;tice to his dammage 500 l. was referred to the Committee for Courts of Iu&s;tice, my brother attending with his witne&s;&s;es at both the Committees, untill one charge or other co&s;t him 45.l. and then the troubles of the Kingdom grew to be &s;o great, that private cau&s;es were adjourned, and there that petition lyeth &s;till; but Vicar <HI>Giles</HI> died, it was &s;aid he poi&s;oned him&s;elf&punc; As for <HI>T Wil&s;on</HI> for tre&s;pa&s;&s;es, my brother brought onely 2, actions again&s;t him, when he might have brought ten, and did not that neither, untill after <HI>Th. Wil&s;on</HI> &s;ued him for pigs once comming into his yard, and my brother did pro&s;ecute but one of the&s;e actions to execution, although <HI>Thom. Wil&s;on</HI> was ca&s;t in them both, and this <HI>Th. Wil&s;on</HI> among&s;t other of his almo&s;t incredible malicious acti|ons again&s;t my brother, did cau&s;e him to be taxed at <HI>Emneth</HI> for the &s;hip-money, in &s;uch
<PB N="8" REF="5">
a di&s;proportionable manner as was unrea&s;onable, in&s;omuch as my brother found &s;o much ju&s;tice from the Sheriffe and high Con&s;table, that they laid a great part of that taxe upon <HI>T. Wil&s;on,</HI> and ea&s;ed my brother there, for &s;hould my brother have born all his wrongs, it had been more then unexpedient (as one &s;aid wi&s;ely) it would have in&s;pired him with boldnes, and &s;o drawn on more injuries: evil natures grow pre&s;umptuous upon forbea|rance, in a dogged &s;tomack which is onely capable of the re&s;traint of fear: the &s;ilent di|ge&s;tion of a former wrong, provokes a &s;econd: and Religion allowes us a&s;much of the &s;erpent as of the dove, it is our duty indeed to be &s;imple as doves, in offending them, but we are no le&s;&s;e charged to be wi&s;e as &s;erpents in defending our&s;elves.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>But let me interrupt you a little, is that this <HI>Th Wil&s;on</HI> of whom your brother complained of before, that <HI>Ia. Whinnell,</HI> and <HI>W. Nichols</HI> combined with to deceive the State? and that he and the re&s;t joyned again&s;t that painfull preacher put in by the Parli|ament,</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>The &s;ame man, I'le warrant you he is no changeling, but <HI>I</HI>'le proceed. As for my brothers &s;tanding out 4. years again&s;t that illegall taxe of &s;hip-money, and &s;uffered 17.l. to be taken from him by violence in that time, this hath been &s;ince counted for a good work in others that did the like, and I hope it will not now be taken by the wi&s;e, for contention in him: for his arre&s;ting <HI>I. Whinnell</HI> in <HI>Iune</HI> la&s;t at <HI>London,</HI> needs no other an&s;wer but this, that he knew not otherwaies how to get his money; and for &s;peaking of his debts, and complaining of his fellow &s;eque&s;trators, I gave you a hint of that be|fore, after many of his debts came to my brothers knowledge, he was forced to reveale them to &s;ave him&s;elf, in giving a rea&s;on to Capt. <HI>Cole, L. Voyce,</HI> and others, why he was &s;o earne&s;t to have <HI>W. Nichols</HI> &s;ent for to bring in his accounts and money, for that he knew them to be both poor, and in debt, and not re&s;pon&s;ible for 3. or 400.l. they had col|lected, (or more for ought he knew) they having paid in none, and the ordinance of &s;e|que&s;tration expre&s;&s;ing, that the Committee &s;hall be an&s;werable for the acts and doings of their Colectors, and knowing if that money mi&s;carried, the blame mu&s;t light upon him, he l<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="4 letters">g in the &s;ame Town where I. <HI>Whinnell</HI> and <HI>W. Nichols</HI> lived, and they 20. miles of, if he did not make it known, and di&s;allow of their doings: be&s;ides, my brother had taken an oath to do all things to the be&s;t advantage of the Common-wealth, &s;o that as I told you in the beginning, he was bound in a double band to reveal them, and could he have had ju&s;t proceedings at home among&s;t his partners, when he made &s;everall journies to Ely for it, he had not been forced to have complained further off for his own &s;afety: and for my brothers pains and co&s;t in getting out the former Vicar of <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> put in by the Bi&s;hop, and was judged to be &s;o unfit for the place, that there was not one that voted for him, but when he offered to &s;hew &s;ome hundreds of hands in his behalfe, it was &s;aid they needed no other evidence of the ignorance and blindnes of tho&s;e people that would &s;et their hands in the behalf of &s;o unfit a man to be their teacher, and that they had need of an able mini&s;ter to teach them better, and commended Mr. <HI>Barthol. Edwards,</HI> and my brother for their good paines, where &s;o few joyned with them: and I hope tho&s;e that &s;et their hands for him, will one day (when they are better in&s;tructed) &s;ay it was a good work, and help my brother to &s;ome of the money again he is out of his pur&s;e about it. And as for framing a fal&s;e petition, and agreeing before hand with a Mini&s;ter, that if he could procure him the par&s;onage, it being worth 200. l. yearly, he &s;hould farme it for 100.l. <HI>per An.</HI> this is utterly fal&s;e, in every particular: and that my brother was in debt 60.l to Mr. Nichols, or 60.d. either, is utterly fal&s;e, he owed my brother above 60. l. which if he would have &s;et but a part of it off when he received his rent (according as he had promi&s;ed in his letters,) there had been no
<PB N="9" REF="5">
more ado&punc; for it is well known; my brother at that time (which was about the beginning of this Parliament) had &s;tore of money lying by him, and did lend to poore men at their needs, but owed no money to Mr. <HI>Nichols</HI> nor any other man; except that debt for tre&s;|pa&s;&s;e to <HI>Tho. Wil&s;on,</HI> the Co&s;ts of the &s;uit amounting to 5. l. 10. s. which his Atturney had ready for him, and he might have had it, had not malice &s;o farre prevailed with him, as to &s;ue my Brother upon the &s;ame judgement, to put him to more charges: And Mr. <HI>Ni|chols</HI> had rea&s;on to let my Brother his par&s;onoge, for that hee paid him his rent at his times. And the letter he &s;ent to Mr. <HI>Nichols,</HI> hath no &s;uch thing in it, as is fal&s;ly &s;aid to be; and it is to be &s;eene and (the cau&s;e of it rightly con&s;idered) de&s;erveth prai&s;e: And I hope my brother hath not &s;ought revenge, again&s;t <HI>James Whinnell</HI> and the re&s;t, his complaining at the Committee of Examinations, and accompts being in <HI>Iune,</HI> which was before they &s;eque&s;tred his goods, and &s;o could not be in revenge of that: But the revenge will fall upon them, for after my brother had reproved and complained of them, then they to be revenged of him, &s;eque&s;ter him: Again to &s;eeke to the Magi&s;trate for Iu&s;tice, is not revenge: and &s;o did my brother: But they to fall upon him them&s;elves (who was a Seque&s;trator with them) and &s;poile him as they did, this is revenge in them: Neither was my Brother the fir&s;t moover of tho&s;e Articles again&s;t them, but being at a Gentle|mans hou&s;e in <HI>London,</HI> he heard two letters read, which came from about <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> com|plaining of the outrages and uncivill carriages of <HI>Iames Whinnell,</HI> and others that fided with him, aleadging that if the Parliament knew what a man they imployed they would not owne him: hereupon my brother &s;pake of &s;ome things that hee and others could prove again&s;t them. A Gentlemen being by, &s;aid, men could not keepe their oath and Covenant, if they knew &s;uch things and would not complaine of them. Hereupon my Brother did put them in writing, and with others did goe to the Committee of Examina|tions, and as for tho&s;e that either thinke or &s;peake hardly of him, and tho&s;e that did te|&s;tifie again&s;t <HI>James Whinnell</HI>; for which he is &s;entenced and impri&s;oned: I thinke they have little rea&s;on, for who could hear &s;uch a well de&s;erving honourable per&s;on, which hath done &s;o much good, not only &s;ince the Parliament began, but like<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">i&s;e before? For which he de&s;erveth to be had in everla&s;ting honour: that both hee and his honourable familie &s;hould be &s;candalized in &s;uch a high nature, and not endeavour to bring the Au|thour thereof to dondigne puni&s;hment: but to &s;top the mouthes of all &s;uch, they may take notice, that there be others that heard him &s;peake the &s;ame &s;candalous words, and that a Gentleman hath given it under his hand in writing, that if he bee called, hee will te&s;tifie he heard <HI>James Whinnell</HI> &s;peake the &s;ame wicked words: and there be others can te&s;tifie that the hearers of tho&s;e words did &s;peake of them the &s;ame day, but there wanted a fit opportunity before that time to make them knowne in its proper place&punc; And I beleeve my Brother is &s;o farre from revenge, that notwith&s;tanding the wrong hee hath received, he could be content to joyne in a Petition to that Noble Lord, that although hee hath wronged his Lord&s;hip in &s;uch a high nature (yet upon his humble &s;ubmi&s;&s;ion) hee might be enlarged.</P>
<P>And whereas they &s;ay my brother is &s;uch a &s;trong Presbyterian &amp;c. Ile tell you hee is &s;o farre from &s;ideing &s;o, as to make the breach wider, that hee honours all tho&s;e that bee godly men; whether Presbyterian or Independant, not pretending to have &s;o much know|ledge as to conclude certainely which is the be&s;t, where &s;o many Godly men do differ, yet according to that &s;mall mea&s;ure of knowledge he hath, his judgement is rather inclin<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">ble for the Presbyterian: But de&s;ires to wait untill it &s;hall plea&s;e God to reveal tho&s;e things to his humble &s;ervants that &s;eeke unto him.</P>
<P>But Ile tell you what kind of people my Brother doth not approve of, &s;uch as the Apo|&s;tle
<PB N="10" REF="6">
<HI>Peter</HI> and <HI>Jude</HI> &s;peakes of, which &s;peake evil of tho&s;e things they know not nor un|der&s;tand, &s;omeing out their owne &s;hame, and walking after their owne lu&s;ts, one of them affirmed openly in the Market place at <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> that a Godly learned Preacher, that preached there, could a ly in the Pulpit, becau&s;e he &s;aid whom God loves once he loveth to the end, and cited <HI>Iohn</HI> 13 1. to prove it: And threatned hee would pull him out by the eares, if he came thither againe. And (the &s;ame man <HI>Iames Whinnell</HI>) another time comming to carpe at an able Mini&s;ters doctrine, now placed by the honourable Commit|tee for plundered Mini&s;ters, in <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> tels him the &s;criptu<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">es are plaine enough of them&s;elves, they neede no interpretation. This Preacher demands of him, what hee thought of tho&s;e places where it &s;aith the eyes of the Lord, and the Arme of the Lord and the like, whether he did thinke that God hath eyes and Armes as men have, yea &s;aith he, I thinke &s;o, for is it not &s;aid? God made man after his owne Image. And this man hath many that &s;ide with him, and &s;eeke to uphold him; &s;uch as call our be&s;t Preachers <HI>Baals</HI> Prie&s;ts, Ra&s;calls, and the like, although they be &s;uch as the Apo&s;tle <HI>Paul</HI> commendeth, workemen which neede not be a&s;hamed, but are able to divide the word of God aright; Yet them&s;elves (whil&s;t they thus vilifie Godly Preachers) are profane in their lives, not regarding the Lords daies, (but &s;peaking their owne words, and doing their owne workes on tho&s;e daies) nor ob&s;erving the fa&s;t daies, but minding fea&s;ting rather then fa&s;ting when God and men call for it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Gualter,</SPEAKER>
<P>I am very glad to heare your an&s;wer concerning the&s;e complaints, for cer|tainly mo&s;t of the&s;e things de&s;erve prai&s;e, we have had too few &s;uch men, as your Brother.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C</SPEAKER>
<P>I am glad to heare you judge &s;o rightly of them, he &s;pake truly that &s;aid, truth may loo&s;e at the &s;tart, yet it will get ground afterwards and winne. Ile tell you of two or three things more, my Brother hath done, that his adver&s;aries will now hardly &s;peake of, But if the Kings partie &s;hould prevaile they will be laid open to the full. At the fir&s;t &s;et|ting forth of the Parliaments propo&s;itions for Hor&s;e, Men, Money, and Plate, my Brother lent and expended above the tenth part of his poore e&s;tate, in <HI>Iuly</HI> 9. and <HI>Iuly</HI> 12. 164<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">. He li&s;ted two <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="3 letters">at hor&s;es in <HI>Moor-fields</HI> with their riders ready furni&s;hed, valued at 42.l. be&s;ides he kept them in <HI>London</HI> one moneth, at 5 &s;hil. <HI>per diem,</HI> which co&s;t him about 7 pounds more: they went forth in Major <HI>Gunters</HI> Troope, the fir&s;t was rai&s;ed but the Lord <HI>Brookes,</HI> If every one of his ability had then hearkened to the Parliament, and &s;et forth but one &s;uch hor&s;e with his rider, (or the value thereof in money) at that time as the Citie of <HI>London</HI> did abundantly in all probability their forwardne&s;&s;e would &s;o have dam|ped the other &s;ide, that they would have had no hearts nor hopes to have taken up Armes, and &s;o all this unnaturall warre had beene prevented, and many thou&s;and of mens lives pre|&s;erved and multitudes that have beene plundered and undone, would &s;till have beene in a flouri&s;hing Condition. I &s;peake not of tho&s;e that were contrarie minded, for if all men had beene for the Parliament, they had not needed to have prepared for their defence, I onely &s;peake of tho&s;e that &s;eemed to bee &s;o, but did nothing or very little untill it was too late: my Brother being at <HI>London</HI> in <HI>Iuly</HI> afore&s;aid, when he li&s;ted his hor&s;es and their ri|ders, it being in harve&s;t time (he not regarding &s;o much the getting in of his harve&s;t as the peace of the Kingdome) meets with a Country Gentleman of his acquaintace, who ad|mired his forwardne&s;&s;e, my Brother an&s;wered him, he did it to keepe peace, for &s;aid he, if the Countries would doe as many of the <HI>Londoners</HI> and I have done, it would be a means to pre&s;erve peace, the Gentleman an&s;wered, my Brother &s;aid well, but I thinke at that time he did but little, but it hath Co&s;t him the price of many &s;uch hor&s;es &s;ince.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>Gualter,</SPEAKER>
<P>But why doe you &s;peake of this? Now it is too late to helpe it.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;peake of it to this end, Fir&s;t, that many who now ly under &s;undry grievances may
<PB N="11" REF="6">
cea&s;e to murmure again&s;t others, and repent they came not timely to helpe the Lord a|gain&s;t the mighty, for it may be now &s;aid unto them, as <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aid to the Marriners and Ma&s;ter of the Ship, in another ca&s;e, Sirs you &s;hould have hearkened to the Parliament, and have &s;aved all this lo&s;&s;e; And as they were faithfull unto you, who made choi&s;e of them, &s;o ought you to have beene, and not have de&s;erted them: and the cau&s;e in which your &s;elves were intere&s;&s;ed with them, when they made it publiquely knowne, there was need of your helpe. Secondly to &s;hew my Brothers faithfulne&s;&s;e and readine&s;&s;e at that time which the Parliament mu&s;t needs take as an acceptable &s;ervice, what though it re&s;emble the two Mites ca&s;t in by the poore Widdow, in compari&s;on of what others did. Thirdly to &s;hew the evill di&s;po&s;ition of tho&s;e that derive their power from the Parliament, and have &s;o ill requited him, as to take away his Cattle and goods without cau&s;e. After this my Brother had only two &s;onnes, men growne, both which hee &s;et forth to beare Armes for the Parliament, who have voluntarily Jepordide their lives in the high places of the fielde, have beene in the greate&s;t fights, (and though I &s;ay it) they are men that have be|haved them&s;elves &s;o as they have had prai&s;e. Be&s;ides my Brother him&s;elfe followed the Armie, at lea&s;t three moneths, to encourage the Souldiers at his owne Co&s;ts; after which he comming to <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> was a chiefe in&s;trument to pre&s;erve the Ile of <HI>Elye</HI> out of the hands of the Parliaments enemies, for hee hearing that Sir <HI>Ier. Scroote</HI> rai&s;ed Souldiers about <HI>Gednie-Cap Welby,</HI> neare <HI>Sutten,</HI> and others began to fortifie <HI>Crowland</HI> of ano|ther &s;ide, and <HI>Linn Regis</HI> of the other &s;ide: And Captaines entertained at <HI>Dodington</HI> in the &s;aid I&s;le, and began to fortifie there, Capt. <HI>Pigg</HI> &s;pake of beating up a Drum about <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> for Souldiers, And that the Ca&s;tle of <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> was in the hands of the Parlia|ments enemies, whether men and Ammuniton might be quickly and clo&s;ely conveyed both by land and Sea, And that divers Captaines were entertained at <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> and thereabouts and all enemies to the Parliament. My Brother began to draw a petition for prevention, and acquainted <HI>Andrewe Burrell</HI> E&s;q. with it, who advi&s;ed with him about drawing up of the &s;ame, which Petition for &s;ecre&s;ie had not above 12 hands to it, was &s;peedily carried to <HI>Arrundel-hou&s;e,</HI> in <HI>London</HI> And Mr. <HI>Earle</HI> the Parliament man. S<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">nne in Law to the Lord <HI>Say</HI> cau&s;ed it &s;peedily to be read in the Hou&s;e of Commons, whereupon an order was the &s;ame day po&s;ted downe to Collonell <HI>Cromwell,</HI> who without delay &s;ent downe Capt. <HI>Dod&s;on</HI> (now Governour of <HI>Crowland</HI>) with his Company of Dragoones, who in|&s;tantly tooke po&s;e&s;&s;ion of the Ca&s;tle of <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> My Brother re&s;ted not here, but Ma&s;ter <HI>Burrell,</HI> Capt <HI>Dod&s;on</HI> and hee with &s;ome others ca&s;t about which way to rai&s;e a Compa|ny of voluntiers about <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> to joyne with Capt. <HI>Dod&s;on,</HI> which was &s;oone brought to pa&s;&s;e, with the a&s;&s;i&s;tance of that de&s;erving Honourable (and never to be forgotten) Lief. Gen. <HI>Cromwell</HI> Mr. <HI>Burrell</HI> being at great Charges of Drum, Collours, Men, Mu&s;quets, Powder and Match: be&s;ides his lending the Parliament neare 100. l. worth of Plate, which he did to encourage others, although he might ill &s;pare it, in re&s;pect of his great lo&s;&s;es both in <HI>Ireland</HI> and <HI>England.</HI> Capt. <HI>Dod&s;on</HI> did bravely many waies, and &s;o did &s;ome others, and to give <HI>Ia. Whinnell</HI> his due, he was forward in the&s;e things, which cau|&s;ed my Brother <HI>Scotten</HI> to thinke &s;o well of him as he did: My Brother was at Co&s;t of maintaining three men more be&s;ides him&s;elfe in Armes did beare his part of the Charge to maintaine a Captaine to traine them and lead them forth as occa&s;ion &s;hould be offered. And him&s;elfe his men and Hor&s;es with their Armes have beene out again&s;t <HI>Crowland</HI> 4. or 5. daies and nights together, and at other places as occa&s;ion required and all at his owne Co&s;ts. By all which meanes (with the Ble&s;&s;ing of God) the I&s;le of <HI>Ely</HI> was pre&s;erved, and &s;o <HI>Crowland,</HI> and <HI>Linn,</HI> &s;ooner reduced to the obedience of the Parliament. And yet for all this my Brother to be &s;poiled and plundered by <HI>Iames Whinnell, Luke Voyce</HI> and
<PB N="12" REF="7">
<HI>Richard Pon&s;onbye</HI> Seque&s;trators for the Parliament, is &s;uch an act as is almo&s;t incredible, and whether they them&s;elves by doing hereof bee not lyable to &s;eque&s;tration by the Ordi|nance of Parliament in that behalfe, I leave to others to judge, &s;ee the Ordinance p. 4. l. 15. And it is further ob&s;ervable how the&s;e men pre&s;evere in their evill. <HI>Thomas Wil&s;on</HI> that knowne Malignant could have time after time, granted unto him under a colour it were po&s;&s;ible he might cleare him&s;elfe and the re&s;t of the afore&s;aid concealement, which they denyed to Mr. <HI>Burrell</HI> who had done as afore&s;aid, and was much oppre&s;&s;ed in taxes otherwaies, and utterly deneyed any time at all; to be given to my Brother to cleare him|&s;elfe.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>You have defended your Brother <HI>Scotten</HI> well hitherto, and &s;et forth his de&s;erved prai&s;e and have laid open the great abu&s;es of his adver&s;aries, which when Authority &s;hall under&s;tand they will undoubtedly repair him in his dammages and puni&s;h tho&s;e that have thus wronged him; But there is one thing more, if you could cleare him of that, it would do well. He hath lo&s;t it &s;eemes the favour of the Commi&s;&s;ioners of the Exci&s;e, and it will be thought tho&s;e grave Aldermen would not have beene incen&s;ed again&s;t him if there were not proofe that he were faultie.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>You &s;ay very true, and I &s;hall declare the particulars of that al&s;o the greate&s;t matter the Commi&s;&s;ioners have found fault with him hath beene his ab&s;ence from the Exci&s;e Of|fice at <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> divers weeks.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>Thats cau&s;e enough to turne him off, and to get a carefuller man in his roome, its a great fault for any man to take charge and tru&s;t upon him, and neglect it; how can you an&s;wer that?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>No way but this, my brother was at charge of another in his roome, and his ab&s;ence was a forced ab&s;ence, I'le tell you how, he by means of <HI>I. Whinnel,</HI> did deliver 50.l. to <HI>Ric. Towel,</HI> upon 28. Feb. 1644. which he promi&s;ed to pay in to Mr. <HI>Iack&s;on</HI> at the exci&s;e office at <HI>London</HI> within a month, it being a u&s;uall thing for this <HI>R. Powel</HI> and his partner, to re|ceive money about <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> country, and lay it out there for fat bea&s;ts, and when he had &s;old them at <HI>London,</HI> to pay in the money there, this <HI>R. Powell</HI> and his partner had lately before that, received 50.l. of my brothers &s;on, and had paid it in according to his promi&s;e and his partner received above 100.l. of my brothers &s;on not long after, which was paid in accordingly: but when my brother came in at the end of the quarter to &s;ee the bookes made even, there wanted this 50.l. it would not be found received in the books, my brother repaired to <HI>R. Powel,</HI> who could &s;how him receits for all the other money, but none for that, my brother waited weeek after weeek, for 3. weekes, hoping he would have paid it in by fair means, after that would not be, he arre&s;ted him in <HI>London,</HI> hoping to have had a tryall quickly, but <HI>R. Powel</HI> removes it by <HI>habeas corpus,</HI> to keep it from tryall: then my br. petitions the commi&s;&s;ioners of the exci&s;e, that they would get this <HI>R. Powel</HI> &s;ent for be|fore the Committee of Parl. for the exci&s;e, the commi&s;&s;ioners gave order to Mr. <HI>Skinner</HI> &s;o to do, who indevoured it: but after my br had waited a month longer in <HI>London,</HI> hoping to have had a warrant for <HI>R. Powel,</HI> at la&s;t the Committee would not, they would &s;ee a tryall at law fir&s;t, &s;o by this means he was forced from the exci&s;e office 7. weeks.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>Did not <HI>I Whinnel</HI> after this time meet your br. at the exci&s;e office? and affirmed before the commi&s;&s;ioners that this <HI>R. Powel</HI> was an hone&s;t man, did he not pay in that 50 pounds think you? and lo&s;t his acquittance.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P><HI>J. Whinnel</HI> did &s;ay &s;o before the commi&s;&s;ioners, but I think he is &s;uch another ho|ne&s;t man as I. <HI>Wh.</HI> is, who likewi&s;e received money of my brothers &s;on at <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> to pay into the exci&s;e office at <HI>London,</HI> but did not, for which (with other money) my brother now &s;ueth him. And the&s;e words of <HI>I. Whinnels</HI> mu&s;t needs reflect upon the receivers of
<PB N="13" REF="7">
the money in the exci&s;e office, for my br. hath 3. witne&s;&s;es that <HI>R. Powel</HI> received this 50. l of him, but it is no great matter whom <HI>I. Whinnel</HI> cals hone&s;t, nor whom he accu&s;eth to be di&s;hone&s;t, for I beleeve <HI>R. Powel</HI> hath not paid in the money, for 2. or 3. daies after the moneth was ended, in which time <HI>R. Powel</HI> promi&s;ed to pay it in, my brother &s;pake with him, and then he confe&s;&s;ed he had not paid it in, but &s;aid he was to pay in above 100. l. more, which his partner had received of my brothers &s;on at <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> &s;ince, and he would pay it in all within 2 daies after, be&s;ides I cannot find but the officers that receive the mo|ney are very exact in &s;etting down what they receive.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>But is this 7. weeks ab&s;ence all they have again&s;t your brother?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>No, he was but one market day at the exci&s;e office at <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> in 2. moneths after this time, the cau&s;e you heard in part before, for <HI>I. Whinnel</HI> and <HI>L. Voyce</HI> having threatned him that in ca&s;e he complained again&s;t them about the &s;eque&s;tration, they would out him of the exci&s;e, and he did complain of them as you have heard, after which <HI>L. Voyce</HI> being in a rage at <HI>Cambridge,</HI> &s;aid of my brother <HI>Scotten,</HI> he was an ill bird to defile his own ne&s;t they would &s;hew him a trick, and &s;o they did, when &s;hortly after they &s;eque&s;ter his goods for by that meanes they did not onely prevent my brother from pro&s;ecuting and proving his complaints again&s;t them, in putting him upon another bu&s;ine&s;&s;e, and di&s;gracing him, as I told you before, but al&s;o he mu&s;t be forced from the exci&s;e office, that &s;o they might complain of his ab&s;ence there, for as you heard before, it took up his time for the mo&s;t part from the latter end of <HI>Iuly</HI> (the time they &s;eque&s;tred him, what at <HI>London</HI> &amp; at <HI>Cambridge,</HI> and to and again) untill the latter end of <HI>Sept.</HI> which is 8. weeks, which with the former 7. makes his ab&s;ence to be 15. weeks from the office, he was there pre&s;ent onely one week, in that time.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>This was a cunning plot indeed, it hath more in it then I under&s;tood at fir&s;t, for by this one act of &s;eque&s;tring his goods, they did not onely &s;o far forth revenge them&s;elves of him, as to take away his pre&s;ent maintenance, and all manner of relief from him&s;elfe and his family, and di&s;grace him, &amp; &s;o di&s;able him from pro&s;ecuting and proving his ju&s;t com|plaints again&s;t them, but al&s;o to force him from the exci&s;e office, that they might com|plain to the Commi&s;&s;ioners of his ab&s;ence from thence, and &s;o to deprive him of that place, as an unfaithful man in the tru&s;t repo&s;ed in him, yet methinks if the Commi&s;&s;ioners were rightly informed of the&s;e things, they would not be offended with your brother, he having another in his ab&s;ence, for what lo&s;&s;e can it be to the State if a &s;ub-commi&s;&s;ioner be ab&s;ent &s;ometimes, if he be at charge of a &s;ufficient man in his room?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>You conceive very right, yet <HI>I</HI>'le tell you, becau&s;e they would make &s;ure to keep him from the exci&s;e office, <HI>L. Voyce</HI> and <HI>I. Whinnel</HI> joyn with this <HI>T. Wil&s;on,</HI> to cau&s;e my brot. to loo&s;e 49 l. due to him, and they had prevailed, had he not &s;pent &s;ome weeks in <HI>London</HI> to prevent them, and my br. did endevour to inform the commi&s;&s;ioners of the&s;e things, but his memory being &s;hort, he could not make things &s;o plain unto them, as <HI>I</HI> have done now to you, be&s;ides my br. had many adver&s;aries, not onely <HI>L. Voyce,</HI> and I. <HI>Whinnel,</HI> but all they could procure, with the States veni&s;on in <HI>Downham</HI> park, and otherwais Neither do I know any lo&s;&s;e to the State, if an hone&s;t &s;ufficient man, and one that is well acquainted with the bu&s;ines, be there in the ab&s;ence of a &s;ubcommi&s;&s;ioner, &s;uch as my br. had, for he had his br in law<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> <HI>Fr<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">erkins</HI> and his &s;on, who kept the office the &s;ummer before, when <HI>I. Whinnel</HI> was ab&s;ent 16. weeks.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>Now you have brought it to mind, I have heard they made &s;ome complaints again&s;t your &s;on, as if he were unju&s;t to the State in &s;ome trifling &s;ums as much as came to 3. or 4 l. &amp; that he u&s;ed &s;ome men hardly that did not bring in their mony when they &s;hould.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Its true enough that <HI>I. Whinnel</HI> gave in a writing again&s;t my br. and his &s;on both, but
<PB N="14" REF="8">
this was after both of them had found much fault by I. <HI>Whinnel,</HI> and had complained of his naughty doings at <HI>Wi&s;beech</HI> (my br. being loth to trouble the commi&s;&s;ioners with complaints again&s;t him, whom before he had commended to them) and likewi&s;e after my br had informed again&s;t him and the re&s;t, at the committee for accounts of the Kingdom, and the honourable committee for examinations, but I. <HI>Whinnel</HI> could not prove the lead tittle again&s;t them for unju&s;t dealings, nor did he go about it, neither do I beleeve the Commi&s;&s;ioners gave any credit unto it: neither had they any rea&s;on, for he that will &s;can|dalize godly mini&s;ters, and the whole A&s;&s;embly of Divines, the Parliament, and the wor|thy members of both Hou&s;es (&s;uch as did never meddle again&s;t him)and forge a warrant and counterfet hands to it, as I told you before, and counterfets my brothers hand, and puts it to a petition again&s;t <HI>I. Hubberd</HI> E&s;q. and other gentlemen about <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> when my br. was 60. miles off, and never knew nor heard of it, cau&s;ing tho&s;e gentlemen to think hardly of him without a cau&s;e, it is no marvell though he &s;candalize my brother and his &s;on, who had complained again&s;t him before.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>But did not <HI>I. Whinnel</HI> now of late complain that your brother was behind hand in the exci&s;e office for money he &s;hould have paid in there?</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Sure enough, but he never told them of the 20.l. at a time, and more, that he gathered into his hands of the exci&s;e money at <HI>Wi&s;beech,</HI> upon the Sabbath daies, of Mr. <HI>Mar&s;hals</HI> clark the brewer, and others, which was more then he &s;hould have received: nor how he wronged my brother between 7. and 8.l. in one quarters book and a half, my brother di<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> acknowledge that the 50.l. in <HI>R. Powels</HI> hand was owing to them, and that he did keept in his hand 15. l. when they began to put the money into the iron box my brother had provided before with 2 locks and keys, becau&s;e I. <HI>Whinnel</HI> and <HI>W. Nichols</HI> had 15. l. in their hands, be&s;ides the other money my brother now &s;ues him for, and be&s;ides the money he gathered upon the &s;abbath daies as afore&s;aid, but my brother withall told the Com|mi&s;&s;ioners, that when the 50.l. in <HI>R. Powels</HI> hand was paid in, there would be money co|ming to him (he having his &s;alary allowed him in his forced ab&s;ence as afore&s;aid, being at charge of another in his room, as <HI>Ja Whinnel</HI> had the &s;ummer before in his ab&s;ence 16. weeks) be&s;ides my brothers part in the 9<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">. l. taken from them (to u&s;e again&s;t <HI>Crowland</HI>) his &s;hare therein being above 40. l. for that he was out of pur&s;e above 16.l. in hiring men to go abroad about the exci&s;e money, and other things in the fir&s;t &s;etling of the exci&s;e of|fice (as by his account <HI>I. Whinnel</HI> hath approved of) appears, which 50, l. my brother did promi&s;e to pay in, hoping he &s;hould have got it where it was due: but I. <HI>Whinnel, L. Voyce</HI> and <HI>T. Wil&s;on</HI> afore&s;aid prevented him, but he hopes the Commi&s;&s;ioners will yet be plea|&s;ed to be a&s;&s;i&s;ting to him in getting the &s;aid 60 l this next term when it come to tryall.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>Did not the Commi&s;&s;ioners blame your brother for that he was a means to bring <HI>Ia. Whinnel</HI> into that office, by commending of him to be a fit man for a &s;ubcommi&s;&s;ioner.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>Yea they did &s;o, but my brother told them he was exceedingly deceived in him (as &s;ome others have been) he had hoped he had been converted from his former deboi&s;t and evill cour&s;es, but &s;ince he hath found, he is like the dog, turning again to his vomit.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>I &s;ee nothing yet but your brother (being a man &s;o well de&s;erving of the Parliament) might be &s;till continued in his office of exci&s;e, for to deal truly with you, I had much ado to refrain my &s;elfe when you told me how he was per&s;ecuted by <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">ic<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> <HI>Giles</HI> and his &s;on <HI>Wil&s;on,</HI> and had &s;uch inju&s;tice by tho&s;e Judges, and how he &s;tood out to the end, &amp; would not deny the truth, though it co&s;t him 500.l. and how &s;ince to his co&s;t, he hath with &s;tood the illegall tax of &s;h<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">p-money, hath been at co&s;t, and taken pains in removing bad mini|&s;ters in the place of his aboad, and been a means to help good ones in their room, been &s;o forward for the Parliament, that it co&s;t him above the tenth part of his e&s;tate, hazarding
<PB N="15" REF="8">
his own life and his &s;ons for the Parliament, and the cau&s;e maintained by them, hath been a means to pre&s;erve the I&s;land where he dwels from being under the power of the enemy, the State thereby having the benefit of the exci&s;e: and yet to be &s;candalized, di&s;graced, and counted as an evil doer, made to &s;uffer &s;o much lo&s;&s;e in his e&s;tate, &amp; that by men deriving their power from the Parliament, and &s;uch as would be taken to be for them (being &s;o un|gratefull to him that hath &s;uffred &s;o much for them) I &s;ay I cannot but take it to heart, and certainly all good men that hear it, mu&s;t needs do &s;o, and therefore <HI>I</HI> would advi&s;e you to put this our conference in print, that it may be publi&s;hed to vindicate your brother, who hath been &s;o publikely di&s;graced, and give to each of the Commi&s;&s;ioners, and &s;uch Com|mittees as it mo&s;t concerns, a little book, <HI>I</HI> cannot think but they will have a good opini|on of your brother, and &s;hew him all lawfull favour, for there is nothing in it that ca&s;ts the lea&s;t &s;pot upon the Parliament, nor any good men in authority under them.</P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>C.</SPEAKER>
<P>I thank you Mr. <HI>Gaulter</HI> for that you give credit to what I have told you, and for your good coun&s;ell, and that you have a fellow feeling of my brothers &s;ufferings for his wel do|ing, but I mu&s;t tell you, my brother was re&s;olved never to have joyned with <HI>I. Whinnel</HI> a|ny more in the exci&s;e office if he might, for he hath been a great loo&s;er by his meanes, &s;ince he tru&s;ted him, and &s;ince <HI>I. Whinnel</HI> was &s;entenced out of his offices, my brother hath not been with the Commi&s;&s;ioner for the exci&s;e&punc; fo<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter"> as he &s;ought not for that office at fir&s;t, &s;o hath he not gone about to make friends to continue <GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="2 letters">, although for the better ta|king of all &s;candall from him, he could willingly have joyned with &s;ome &s;ufficient hone&s;t man. But now I hear certainly the commi&s;&s;ioners have made choice of others, and have much indeavoured to choo&s;e hone&s;t men, yet I conceive if it were publi&s;hed, it would be for the benefit of the State, and &s;o far from ca&s;ting the lea&s;t a&s;per&s;ion upon the Parliament or any Committees of Parliament men, or others that are good, that it &s;ets forth their de|&s;erved prai&s;e, be&s;ides it may be a means to vindicate my brother <HI>Scotten,</HI> nor onely before the Commi&s;&s;ioners of the exci&s;e, but all others that have been deceived by fal&s;e reports, and &s;o repair him in his dammages, and lay open the abu&s;es of &s;uch men as (in &s;ome re|&s;pects) are wor&s;e then that unrighteous Judge, that neither feared God, nor reverenced man, re&s;embling tho&s;e ungodly men that are crept in unawares, of whom <HI>Iude</HI> &s;peaketh, that they may be brought to their de<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="1 letter">erved puni&s;hment &amp; further it may be u&s;efull to all, Fir&s;t to confirm this truth, that no bonds of friend&s;hip will make wicked men faithfull to godly men therefore try before you tru&s;t, have good experience of the conver&s;ion, conver|&s;ation, and faithfulnes of men, before you tru&s;t them &s;o far, that if they prove perfidious they may do you a mi&s;chief, take heed how ye both reprove a &s;corner, or ca&s;t pearles before &s;wine, the former will endeavour to work you &s;hame, the latter will rend you, imbrace that coun&s;el as much as in you lieth; have peace with all men, but becau&s;e peace alwaies cannot be, for we are exhorted to contend for the faith once given to the &s;aints, and there is a what peace &amp;c and the wi&s;edome that is from above is fir&s;t pure, &amp; then peaceable, there|fore &s;econdly, let every one re&s;olve to do his duty in his place, although he be accounted contentious or a bu&s;ie man for his pains, were <HI>Nehemiah</HI> now living among&s;t us, &amp; &s;hould do as he did in <HI>Ieru&s;alem,</HI> as you may reade. 13. he would certainly be counted a conten|tious bu&s;ie man, yet he had peace within, and could &s;ay, remember me O my God in mer|cy, in the good that <HI>I</HI> have done: <HI>I</HI>'le tell you (to Gods prai&s;e and glory be it &s;poken) that during all that 12. years and above that my brother was troubled and per&s;ecuted for con|tending for the faith again&s;t Vicar <HI>Giles,</HI> that it co&s;t him 500. l. he was not wor&s;e in his e&s;tate at the end of that time, 500. d. finally, if God &s;ee it good otherwi&s;e, as to &s;uffer e|vil
<PB N="16" REF="9">
men not only to rai&s;e and &s;pread fal&s;e reports of his people, but al&s;o to &s;poll &amp; depri<GAP DESC="illegible" RESP="OXF" EXTENT="2 letters"> them of many of the&s;e outward ble&s;&s;ings, let us remember what <HI>Paul</HI> &s;aith, <HI>Phil.</HI> 1.18.19. And in nothing terrified by your adver&s;aries, which is to them an evident token of perdi|tion, but to you of &s;alvation, and that of God, for to you it is given not onely to beleeve on him, but al&s;o to &s;uffer for his &s;ake. Ob&s;erve the words well, a &s;uffering condition is a gift, a&s; well as faith, which God u&s;eth to be&s;tow upon his beloved ones, to adorn them withall. Now Mr. <HI>Gualter</HI> are welcome to <HI>Cambridge.</HI></P>
</SP>
<SP>
<SPEAKER>G.</SPEAKER>
<P>I thank you Mr. <HI>Cook</HI> both for your company, and for the good &s;ati&s;faction you have given me concerning your brother, get it printed a&s;&s;oon as you can, good u&s;e may be made of it many waies, and if it give not &s;atisfaction to all, yet it will to many that fear God, &amp; have experience of the enmity that is in the &s;eed of the &s;erpent, to the &s;eed of the wo|man.</P>
</SP>
<TRAILER>FINJS.</TRAILER>
</DIV1>
</BODY>
<BACK>
<DIV1 TYPE="colophon">
<P>LONDON, Printed according to order, by <HI>Thomas Paine,</HI> 1645.</P>
</DIV1>
</BACK>
</TEXT>
</EEBO>
</ETS>
